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Speedy
10-07-2005, 10:26 PM
Link (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1007amare.html)

Stoudemire out with knee injury

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 8, 2005 12:00 AM

TUCSON - Amaré Stoudemire is out for an indeterminate amount of time and could be facing surgery because of the left knee that has been troubling him this summer.

A Tucson specialist examined Stoudemire's knee today after Stoudemire practiced at the morning session. He did not return for the evening practice but remains at the team hotel.

The team's medical staff planned to meet later tonight to decide the next step for Stoudemire.

"We're going through the evaluation process and we're going to make sure we have all the information before a determination is made to pursue treatment, possible surgery (and) what the safest and best return is for him to come back to basketball," Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo said.

Thespiralgoeson
10-08-2005, 12:43 AM
Good news for us.

MavsFanFinley
10-08-2005, 12:46 AM
I hope it's not serious. You hate to see a player go down before the season even gets started. Hopefully it's not as bad as they're thinking right now.

Dirkenstien
10-08-2005, 12:49 AM
Amare Stoudamire will go as far as his knees take him.

Considering he puts so much stress on them day in and day out, you can't help but believe it won't be very far.



...Looks like the MVP may have his work cut out for him.

chumdawg
10-08-2005, 01:03 AM
I hope Tim Duncan has a serious ankle injury.

EricaLubarsky
10-08-2005, 01:35 AM
couldnt have happened to a nicer, more down-to-earth guy.

Seriously though, I wish fire and brimstone on the Suns but I want to open the season with a whupping on a full-strength Suns team.

Thespiralgoeson
10-08-2005, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
couldnt have happened to a nicer, more down-to-earth guy.

Yeah, I always thought Black Jesus there seemed like a really humble, modest character.

I agree with you though, I do want to beat the Suns at full strength.

EricaLubarsky
10-08-2005, 09:57 PM
then we agree on both points because I was being sarcastic on the first point. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

MrCheerios
10-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Hate to see this happen. I'd like to cream the suns when they're at full strength. I don't want there to be any excuses on why the "lowly" mavs managed to fell the "mighty" suns.

Thespiralgoeson
10-08-2005, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
then we agree on both points because I was being sarcastic on the first point. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

I knew you were i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

capitalcity
10-08-2005, 11:10 PM
On the upside, this will give Amare more time to tackle his literacy problem.

Good luck buddy! If Fantasia can do it, then you can to.

alby
10-09-2005, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by: capitalcity
On the upside, this will give Amare more time to tackle his literacy problem.

Good luck buddy! If Fantasia can do it, then you can to.

HAHAH

Arne
10-09-2005, 05:45 AM
The Suns were plain out lucky last regular season they didn't have any tough injurys all season long. If Stoudemire can't play the season opener, then there's no way we lose that game.

DevinHarriswillstart
10-10-2005, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by: Arne
The Suns were plain out lucky last regular season they didn't have any tough injurys all season long. If Stoudemire can't play the season opener, then there's no way we lose that game.

Man I love Jinx's.

sike
10-10-2005, 04:38 PM
I just drafted Amare in fantasy.....I needs him dunking on your pumpkin head!!!!

dirno2000
10-10-2005, 05:42 PM
Amare to have surgery
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 10, 2005

Suns star Amaré Stoudemire will undergo arthroscopic surgery on his left knee Tuesday morning, according to his manager.

Team physician Thomas Carter will perform the scope on the left knee that has troubled Stoudemire since the summer. Stoudemire had been practicing at camp in Tucson last week until he received a second opinion from a Tucson specialist.

That prompted Stoudemire to visit with an orthopedic surgeon, Warren Strudwick, in Oakland on Sunday. He agreed with Carter's recommendation for an arthroscopy. The hope is that Stoudemire could return to playing in November if the scope does not show any unknown problems.

“We're pretty optimistic that it'll be something minor,” Stoudemire's manager, Rodney Rice, said. “Hopefully, he will be back on the court soon.”

alby
10-10-2005, 05:44 PM
Isn't that pretty irresponsible to wait until training camp begins to deal with an injury?

EricaLubarsky
10-10-2005, 05:50 PM
first get the contract, then "discover" the ailment.

Azn_Baller101
10-10-2005, 06:25 PM
I honestly wish the same for TD, Gino, TP, JJax, Kobe, Bibs, SAR, and anyone else in the west who could potentially screw us over.

Also, nash is still teh suck

EricaLubarsky
10-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Amare out four months
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1011suns.html)

The Suns received devastating news this morning regarding their All-Star big man.

Suns star Amaré Stoudemire’s arthroscopic surgery evolved into a microfracture procedure on his left knee this morning, according to his manager.

Team physician and orthopedic surgeon Thomas Carter found Stoudemire’s cartilage damage to be more severe than anticipated. Stoudermire’s manager, Rodney Rice, said the power forward is expected be out for four months because of the surgery.

“It was better to do the microfracture now instead of chancing that the lesion would grow, which might affect Amaré down the road,” said Rice, who was in the room during this morning’s scope. “It was best to do the procedure now.”

Suns fans remember how microfracture surgery greatly changed the game of Penny Hardaway but Rice said Stoudemire should not be as adversely affected because he is having the operation at a younger age and at a time when the lesion is smaller. During a microfracture, holes are drilled into the bone. The cells then come up with the blood through the holes and form into cartilage.

“He’s got a lot of things in his favor to come back in a strong way,” Rice said.

HexNBA
10-11-2005, 12:58 PM
So much for the Suns' season

Five-ofan
10-11-2005, 01:04 PM
That flushing sound was the Suns season and Amares career at the same time. Some how the toilet didnt get clogged.

rakesh.s
10-11-2005, 01:10 PM
Why the hell didn't he have the knee scoped immediately after he started feeling pain? This is just dumb.

Is he so selfish that he wanted to get a contract and let the season slide? Nash isn't getting any younger.

I can't believe that the Suns WOULDN'T have offered him a max extension if he had undergone surgery a few months ago. After all, big men don't come easy and he's much younger than the other players that have had microfracture surgery(kidd, webber..and kidd is doing just fine).

Dumb dumb dumb..oh well.

Five-ofan
10-11-2005, 01:14 PM
Kidd didnt rely nearly as much on his athletecism and has clearly lost a step. Fortunately he knows how to play basketball something im not sure Amare does.

mary
10-11-2005, 01:17 PM
What's their line-up now?

EricaLubarsky
10-11-2005, 01:21 PM
so best case scenario is the Suns stay competitive and Amare comed back at full health with a little less than 2 months left.

They will probably play

someone...Grant? Burke?
Kurt Thomas/J. Jones
Marion/Diaw
Bell/Jackson
Nash/Barbosa

or might go small with

Thomas
Marion
Diaw (or Jones?)
Bell
Nash

and Nash is going to be logging major minutes

grndmstr_c
10-11-2005, 01:22 PM
If I were the Suns I'd probably look at something like this:
Nash
Raja
JJ
Marion
KT

bo319
10-11-2005, 01:23 PM
My guess is you'll see alot more of Pat Burke and Brian Grant with Kurt Thomas playing the 4 spot. When they go small James Jones can play the 3 with Marion at the 4 but it won't be near the same with KT instead of Amare.

rakesh.s
10-11-2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan
Kidd didnt rely nearly as much on his athletecism and has clearly lost a step. Fortunately he knows how to play basketball something im not sure Amare does.

Kidd was putting up 15, 7, 8 last year. How can he lose a step if his rebounds are at a career high? That tells me he was crashing the boards even more after the surgery. He stopped shooting too much, which was a good thing for the Nets.

aexchange
10-11-2005, 01:59 PM
didn't like the self proclaimed black jesus anyways.

Dalhoop
10-11-2005, 02:18 PM
I don't think that they can rely on big minutes from Grant, he has not played big minutes in a long time. Grant is undersized as a Center as is, they have no choice but to go small.

Nash - House
Bell - Jackson
Jones - Diaw
Marion - Grant
Thomas - Burke

God, that's a thin frontline. This does not look like a playoff team in the West.

So, four months? Make it three because he is young and youth heals faster then age, and that puts him back around the All-Star break.

The Suns can still make a run the final months and make one of the lower seeds, We should be careful of what we ask for, they could be a first round opponent.

Five-ofan
10-11-2005, 03:20 PM
You dont come back from microfracture surgery in 3 months no matter how young you are.

Dirkenstien
10-11-2005, 03:57 PM
Nash has a lot to prove. If he can even come close to duplicating last season's numbers and record with this team then he will be very deserving of a MVP repeat.

If not then there is even more reason to question his earning the MVP in the first place.

madape
10-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Now we get to see how valuable Nash really is. In other words, was it Nash who made Amare look good, or was it Amare who made Nash look good? It should be fun to watch.

George Gervin
10-11-2005, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by: chumdawg
I hope Tim Duncan has a serious ankle injury.


dude are you serious? I dispise the eagles (yes i am a life long cowboy fan) but i don't want terrel owens to get hurt..

chumdawg
10-11-2005, 05:31 PM
Yes, I'm serious. And I'd love nothing more than for Terrell Owens to suffer a season-ending injury. I want McNabb to stick around, but I'd really like to see TO go.

dirno2000
10-11-2005, 05:54 PM
He doesn't mean it injury gods...please don't strike down a key Cowboy or Mav....

The Suns are screwed...they don't even have a center. Doesn't matter as much if you have Amare abusing every center in the league but who does a front line of KT, Brian Grant and a disgruntled Shawn Marion scare? They're probably going to have to play Nash a little more than they'd like just to stay afloat.

I wonder if Sarver would have CTC if he knew Amare would have microfracture surgery the next week.

sike
10-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
If I were the Suns I'd probably look at something like this:
Nash
Raja
JJ
Marion
KT
that is a losing line no doubt....

sike
10-11-2005, 07:12 PM
toudemire’s anticipated return to competitive basketball is approximately four months.
wow...that is not cool for my fantasy team...

Thespiralgoeson
10-11-2005, 07:34 PM
I'm torn between my desire to see the Mavs stomp the Suns at the top of their game, and that absolute pleasure I take in seeing them suffer. My ideal senario: they tank until Amare comes back 100% and the Suns end up with a low seeding, and then get annihilated in the first round by the Mavs.

alby
10-11-2005, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by: sike

toudemire’s anticipated return to competitive basketball is approximately four months.
wow...that is not cool for my fantasy team...

ouch

alby
10-11-2005, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s
Why the hell didn't he have the knee scoped immediately after he started feeling pain? This is just dumb.

Is he so selfish that he wanted to get a contract and let the season slide? Nash isn't getting any younger.

I can't believe that the Suns WOULDN'T have offered him a max extension if he had undergone surgery a few months ago. After all, big men don't come easy and he's much younger than the other players that have had microfracture surgery(kidd, webber..and kidd is doing just fine).

Dumb dumb dumb..oh well.

yup, if i were a suns fan i would be effing pissed off at the guy

Misfit Mav
10-11-2005, 08:35 PM
Not that I'm counting Amare out for good, but this shows why it was a bad idea to sell the farm to get an "Amare stopper". Stromile Swift doesn't look like such a loss now.

This should help us a lot in the West.

alby
10-11-2005, 08:38 PM
in every era, theres always a very very promising superstar in the making who's career gets ruined by an injury. amare may be that guy out of this era..

bernardos70
10-12-2005, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by: George Gervin

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I hope Tim Duncan has a serious ankle injury.


dude are you serious?

Is this the REAL George Gervin?

dirno2000
10-12-2005, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by: Misfit Mav
Not that I'm counting Amare out for good, but this shows why it was a bad idea to sell the farm to get an "Amare stopper". Stromile Swift doesn't look like such a loss now.

This should help us a lot in the West.Stromile Swift wasn't an Amare stopper anyway...Amare's dunked on him plenty of times.

I don't think this affects out status in the West at all. The bottom line is, we still have to beat SA and Houston or we're on the road in the 2nd if not the 1st round.

Sac, on the other hand...

alby
10-12-2005, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav
Not that I'm counting Amare out for good, but this shows why it was a bad idea to sell the farm to get an "Amare stopper". Stromile Swift doesn't look like such a loss now.

This should help us a lot in the West.Stromile Swift wasn't an Amare stopper anyway...Amare's dunked on him plenty of times.

I don't think this affects out status in the West at all. The bottom line is, we still have to beat SA and Houston or we're on the road in the 2nd if not the 1st round.

Sac, on the other hand...

well this makes Sac the favorites to win the division so they will have homecourt in the playoffs, not saying it hasn't been done because its already been done alot, but going through arco is very tough...

grndmstr_c
10-12-2005, 01:19 AM
Kings'll only have homecourt against teams they beat out for record, and I don't think that team is beating us out in that respect.

HexNBA
10-12-2005, 02:17 AM
"The bottom line is, we still have to beat SA and Houston"

Really, screw Houston. Adding Stromile Swift doesnt make them better than us. And they just added Rafer Alston of all f***ups, they will beat themselves.

Thespiralgoeson
10-12-2005, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by: HexNBA
"The bottom line is, we still have to beat SA and Houston"

Really, screw Houston. Adding Stromile Swift doesnt make them better than us. And they just added Rafer Alston of all f***ups, they will beat themselves.

I agree about Swift, but don't be so sure about Rafer. Their biggest weakness was their lack of an athletic backcourt and a PG. Rafer helps them in both these areas. I still think we're a better team, but don't write off Houston... they're not pushovers.

dude1394
10-12-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s
Why the hell didn't he have the knee scoped immediately after he started feeling pain? This is just dumb.

Is he so selfish that he wanted to get a contract and let the season slide? Nash isn't getting any younger.

I can't believe that the Suns WOULDN'T have offered him a max extension if he had undergone surgery a few months ago. After all, big men don't come easy and he's much younger than the other players that have had microfracture surgery(kidd, webber..and kidd is doing just fine).

Dumb dumb dumb..oh well.


Contract buddy... Had to get that contract and then admit something was amiss.

DubOverdose
10-12-2005, 08:11 AM
What? No STAT this season? No Standing Tall and Talented? No show off pushups on court during an important game? No more 'I should have gotten that' (in regards to MVP). I'd feel sorry if the guy could be humble in the least bit.

alby
10-12-2005, 11:00 AM
i can't think of 5 legitimate humble superstars anyways...

duncan
dirk
lebron

aexchange
10-12-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by: alby
i can't think of 5 legitimate humble superstars anyways...

duncan
dirk
lebron

nash
wade

Five-ofan
10-12-2005, 01:08 PM
Nash isnt a superstar. Wade ehhhh kinda.

MavKikiNYC
10-12-2005, 01:10 PM
And Lebron isn't remotely humble.

Five-ofan
10-12-2005, 04:28 PM
Lebron is THE most hyped player in history. He is 20 years old and arguably(though I dont think so) the best player in the nba. Let that sink in. He is more talented than any player I have seen. His ceiling is whatever he wants it to be. He can set any record he chooses. Think about this the 3rd year is usually the first great year of any high school player. I fully expect him to average 30ppg 10rpg - 7apg this year. It will come down to him and Dirk for the mvp. I think Dallas' superior record will mean Dirk will get it but the guy is just a beast. He is Magics size with jordans hops. He is a freak. For all of that he is about as humble as he could be. No matter who you are if you hear you are the greatest from the time you are 14 you will be a little conceided. I think Wade saying that Lebron doesnt do anything better than him is more arrogance than anything Ive heard Lebron say. Dirk and Duncan are about it as far as humble superstars.

Five-ofan
10-12-2005, 04:30 PM
Also, though I dont think Dirks public humbleness is the false modestity that some athletes have, he knows he can play with anyone on the planet. Watch him play and you can see his attitude. He may not say anything about it after the game, but during the game he thinks he is the best player on the court which you have to to be a superstar.

DubOverdose
10-12-2005, 04:38 PM
Humble Stars:
Nash
Dirk
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Yao
Dwight Howard
Emeka
Manu
etc.

Five-ofan
10-12-2005, 04:53 PM
He said superstars and wade isnt exactly humble. On that list the only superstars are Dirk, Duncan, Lebron and maybe wade. Howard will be there in a year or two. He is a BEAST. Truly humble I would say Dirk and Duncan. Lebron is as humble as someone with his life could be though. Wade isnt exactly humble and not completely a superstar.

DubOverdose
10-12-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan
He said superstars and wade isnt exactly humble. On that list the only superstars are Dirk, Duncan, Lebron and maybe wade. Howard will be there in a year or two. He is a BEAST. Truly humble I would say Dirk and Duncan. Lebron is as humble as someone with his life could be though. Wade isnt exactly humble and not completely a superstar.
Ya, and it was in response to me saying that he isn't the least bit humble. It depends who you think the superstars are in this league, and if you want to be picky about it, Amare sure as hell ain't on my list. If we're talking broader stars which is the grouping Amare falls under then my list is good. Amare hasn't taken a team to the playoffs. He was taken there by a good team his rookie year and this past season he had 3 AllStars or whatever it was around him including the MVP. That team would have made the playoffs with or without him last season. He's yet to prove that he's a superstar in this league.

Five-ofan
10-12-2005, 08:38 PM
I dont at all consider Amare a superstar. He is closer than nash though.

Murphy3
10-12-2005, 11:52 PM
Amare's out? Good.

Evilmav2
10-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Amare's out? Good.

Amare's not only out, but his career will be placed in dire jeopardy by the knife-work of his doctors, as he's set to undergo the same dreaded micro-fracture surgery that Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, and Jason Kidd have made infamous. I'd bet that upon Stoudemire's return, the scoped and scraped out kneecap of that previously burgeoning young superstar will leave him looking a bit more like a post-injury wracked Antonio McDyess, rather than the near-MVP candidate that all Dallas fans grew to fear or revile in the second round of last year's playoffs...

EricaLubarsky
10-13-2005, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Amare's out? Good.

Amare's not only out, but his career will be placed in dire jeopardy by the knife-work of his doctors, as he's set to undergo the same dreaded micro-fracture surgery that Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, and Jason Kidd have made infamous. I'd bet that upon Stoudemire's return, the scoped and scraped out kneecap of that previously burgeoning young superstar will leave him looking a bit more like a post-injury wracked Antonio McDyess, rather than the near-MVP candidate that all Dallas fans grew to fear or revile in the second round of last year's playoffs...

one can only hope i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Thespiralgoeson
10-13-2005, 12:30 AM
It's possible but I don't think Amare's career will be affected by this, other than missing most of this season of course. Obviously I'm no doctor, but the difference between Amare and Webber/Kidd/Penny is that Amare's having this done at a much younger age than those guys, and he got this done at an early stage before his knee got too bad. It'll be a long time before we see the player we saw last year, maybe not even until next season, but I think sooner or later we'll see Amare back to his freakishly athletic, arrogant self.

Five-ofan
10-13-2005, 12:53 AM
I dont think you will ever see the athlete you saw last year again. Is it not time to call him injury prone? he has missed a whole lot in a short amount of time. I dont care how young you are until someone comes back from that surgery I will not just expect him to be the same.

Thespiralgoeson
10-13-2005, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan Is it not time to call him injury prone? he has missed a whole lot in a short amount of time.

What??? He played 80 games last year, and all 82 games his rookie year. He missed 27 games in 03-04 but thats it. Hardly what I'd call injury prone.

chumdawg
10-13-2005, 01:55 AM
You think one Michael Finley is pretty relieved he didn't fall for the trap in Phoenix?

Eh, I think he'll probably make it back this season and still be in good enough shape to be more than anybody can handle. The guy was absolutely unstoppable late last year. He can afford to give back ten or twenty percent and still be a major force.

EricaLubarsky
10-13-2005, 02:20 AM
I think it is WAY too early to know if he will ever recover to full form.

and I DO think that Finley is glad that he didnt make that move. Nash/Finley/Marion would still scare me though and would still be competitive in the playoff race.

Thespiralgoeson
10-13-2005, 02:37 AM
Even though I can't stand the guy and I hate the Suns, I do think it's a damn shame that this happened. I was really curious to see how the Suns would do this year as opposed to last and how Amare would fare at PF. Now we'll have to wait several months, or worse yet maybe he wont be the same after this and we'll never know what that team would've looked like.

chumdawg
10-13-2005, 02:44 AM
It's the Steve Nash Curse. Make it to the WCF, have reason to believe that you are knocking on a title's door, and then--bam!--you never get to see how it might have all played out.

Poor Stevie. I was really hoping he could repeat his performance from last year. He won't, if STAT doesn't play.

Thespiralgoeson
10-13-2005, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by: chumdawg
It's the Steve Nash Curse. Make it to the WCF, have reason to believe that you are knocking on a title's door, and then--bam!--you never get to see how it might have all played out.

Poor Stevie. I was really hoping he could repeat his performance from last year. He won't, if STAT doesn't play.

Maybe this curse is contagious. You know, maybe this was originally the Chris Webber curse and rubbed off onto Nash in the 03 playoffs. Yikes, I was hoping to get to see the Mavs kick the shit out of the Suns in the playoffs but now I'm not so sure. We better stay away from them.

EricaLubarsky
10-13-2005, 03:37 AM
at least Amare isnt as bad as Webber-- the guy got a knee contusion the first pre-season game. LOL

alby
10-13-2005, 12:55 PM
an injury to the legs for amare can have a much bigger affect to an injury to webber

why you ask?

amare relies so much on his athleticsm and his ability to get off the floor quicker than his opponents to score, while webber was a very good passer and had an above average jumpshot from the elbow which are skills that do not focus so much on the condition of his knees/legs. of course it hindered him going up for dunks/layups and elevating for rebounds, but if this amare injury is close to the seriousness as webber's, it will hurt amare much more than it hurt c-webb even at 23 years old.

Evilmav2
10-13-2005, 07:52 PM
Evidently, we're not the only folks wondering if the dread micro-fracture surgery may leave Amare as a mere shell of his 04-05 self...

http://www.stlallsports.com/pics/amarestoudemire_20ices.jpg
There's no telling how Amare will come back

Mike Kahn / Special to FOXSports.com

The words resonate with the impact of an Amare Stoudemire slam dunk.

Microfracture surgery.

And just like that, the next great post player in the NBA is out until the All-Star break in the wake of the microfracture surgery performed Tuesday morning in Phoenix by Suns team physician Tom Carter.

Stoudemire had been struggling with discomfort throughout the summer, and it was believed that during exploratory arthroscopic surgery, doctors could clean up what was believed to be a minor cartilage tear. Instead, they poked a hole in the joint, and the entire world of the Suns has changed with the 22-year-old Stoudemire incapacitated for what they believe to be four months.

"The surgery went well, and other than the defect that we treated today, Amare's knee is remarkably and structurally healthy," Carter said in a statement. "Given Amare's age, and the nominal size and location of the defect, I am confident the microfracture procedure performed will allow a healthy and normal return to action."

How it affects him in the long run remains to be seen. In the short run, this changes everything in the Western Conference. Now, the Suns have gone from having the best record in the NBA with 62 wins a year ago to becoming a marginal playoff team.

Not only have they dealt their record-setting 3-point shooter in Quentin Richardson and signed-and-traded brilliant young swingman Joe Johnson, they've lost Stoudemire, certainly the most stunning young player in the 2005 playoffs.

As everyone drooled over the campaigns of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade's as they ascended during both the regular season and the playoffs, Stoudemire gradually took over as the best post player in the postseason.

At 6-foot-10, 250, he added a 16-foot jumper last year to his nightly dunkfest, and he became unstoppable by the time the playoffs rolled around. As it was, he was already an All-Star in 2005 and was named a second team All-NBA center behind Shaquille O'Neal by averaging 26.0 points, 8.9 rebounds and 1.63 blocks.

Then came the playoffs, where he averaged 29.9 points, 10.7 rebounds.

He even topped that off with a stirring performance in the conference finals against Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs, averaging 37.0 points — an NBA record for highest scoring average in at least five games by a player making his first conference finals appearance. Moreover, he became the first player in history to have 11 playoff games of at least 30 points before the age of 23.

And there's more. But there is no point in going on. Regardless of what Carter says, they just don't know how he'll respond. You can march right down the line of microfracture casualties, with the end of Jamal Mashburn's career, Allan Houston's fade to oblivion, Chris Webber's exponential aging, the uncertainty of Jason Kidd and — more pertinent to the Suns — the devaluation of Anfernee Hardaway to barely a penny after signing him to a maximum contract.

His youth is a positive, no question. And as Portland Trail Blazers young star Zach Randolph, just 24, attempts to battle back from his microfracture surgery this summer, we'll see if the next generation of players is capable of overcoming the drilled-hole-in-the-knee syndrome that is shaking up professional sports.

Maybe it hurts more because it's Stoudemire, who overcame the travesty of non-functional parents, attending enough high schools to fill any school district and still managing to jump directly into the NBA and become the 2003 Rookie of the Year.

Now, another disconcerting tale unfolds ... just days after he signed a maximum contract extension to pave his future in gold.

Sure, the Suns made a good deal when they acquired Kurt Thomas for Richardson, despite his proclivity for draining the 3-ball. And yes, they got more than they probably should have for Johnson — Boris Diaw and two first-round picks from the traditionally horrid Atlanta Hawks — considering they didn't intend to match the offer sheet.

But when they decided to remake the roster, there was no clue that Stoudemire was destined for this. With new faces Thomas, Diaw, Raja Bell and Brian Grant around Steve Nash, this is now a completely different team.

Unfortunately for the Suns, they look a lot more like the lottery team of two years ago than a returnee to the conference finals.

They lose not only Stoudemire's palpable talent and ability to take over any game, but they also lose the instinctive leadership by example that stems from his excitement of just being on the floor, coachability and boundless energy that raises the level of everyone's game.

Let's hope the prognosis is accurate and he'll be back after the All-Star break to help the Suns make a strong run into the playoffs. Nonetheless, everything becomes hypothetical with Stoudemire from here on out.

This is a classic example of why professional athletes make exorbitant salaries to display their exceptional talents. It can all be so fleeting. But you can be certain the money is little consolation to Stoudemire these days. The reason he is such a special player is because he loves the game and works at it.

And still, it guarantees nothing — except money.

Microfracture surgery — it's drilling a hole in the NBA's infrastructure.

Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/4982848)

MavKikiNYC
10-13-2005, 08:05 PM
Now....why didn't the Suns give him a physical and a thorough examination before offering the big $$$?

And, if there is any indication whatsoever that STAT and his entourage knew the extent of the injury, why couldn't the contract be rescinded?

EricaLubarsky
10-14-2005, 01:18 AM
Microfracture surgery — it's drilling a hole in the NBA's infrastructure.

*gag*

Dirkenstien
10-14-2005, 01:34 AM
I see the Suns headed to the lottery.

All of this pressure to perform is going to be on Nash's shoulders and I can easily see him pushing himself too hard and thus suffering some type of major/nagging injury.


The sun truly does seem to be setting early in Pheonix.

Murphy3
10-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Another thing that separates Amare's game from Kidd and Malone is this.... Amare's game is almost solely based on his athleticism at this point in his career. Take away some of that, and he could be just another guy. If it has any negative longterm impact at all, it'll greatly impact his game simply because his game is based so much on athleticism compared to actualy skill. I'm not saying that he's without skill....just that it's not his bread and butter.

sike
10-14-2005, 12:08 PM
I hope Amare makes a full come back...that's too much talent to be wasted...I want to see what it can become.

Murphy3
10-14-2005, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by: sike
I hope Amare makes a full come back...that's too much talent to be wasted...I want to see what it can become.

I'd rather see Amare lose all of his money and end up flipping burgers at McDonald's.

alby
10-14-2005, 06:49 PM
he's better than McDonald's, I say steak and shake..

rabbitproof
10-14-2005, 08:23 PM
I hope he comes back at 100% eventually. I don't want the Suns to be able to exercise the 'oh but if' clause and I think we can beat them top gun to top gun. Plus, he's a fun player to watch even though his mouth is too much. Good health and speedy recoveries to all.

Anyways, I looking forward to the 'MVP' keeping the Suns in the playoffs. Good way to tell if it was the system or the player that made Nash's very manly 2004-2005 season. If he's really elevated to stud level - Amare's out for a few months... BFD! If he needs a couple All-Stars and 3 point monsters to win, last year was just a perfect recipe for Nasty; less on what he personally did.

Nash doesn't even have to duplicate last season or better upon it to prove it (though, he could and probably should - league MVPs should be able to raise their game in the absense of running mates - though you could argue the Nash-Amare relationship was like Stock-Malone). All Nash has to do is get the Suns in at 8 and he AND his contract will be validated IMO.

Steve13
10-20-2005, 02:56 PM
suns will still win the division....they will be enough games over 500 by the time amare returns and he will help take them on a big run to end the season

BOOK IT

Steve13
10-20-2005, 02:57 PM
suns will still win the division....they will be enough games over 500 by the time amare returns and he will help take them on a big run to end the season

BOOK IT

Steve13
10-20-2005, 02:57 PM
suns will still win the division....they will be enough games over 500 by the time amare returns and he will help take them on a big run to end the season

BOOK IT

sike
10-20-2005, 03:03 PM
so booked, so booked, so booked.


the Wariors beat 'em couple nights ago...watch our for the GS warriors!

Steve13
10-20-2005, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by: sike
so booked, so booked, so booked.


the Wariors beat 'em couple nights ago...watch our for the GS warriors!

spurs are 0-4 in pre-season guess that means they will be lottery bound then?

fact is suns still have the MVP and he makes guys better and the suns still have an all-star in Marion, very good shooters and role players ..to dismiss them is foolish.

mary
10-20-2005, 03:19 PM
fact is suns still have the MVP and he makes guys better and the suns still have an all-star in Marion, very good shooters and role players ..

Look out that window....


The Suns seem very ordinary right now.

Steve13
10-20-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by: mary

fact is suns still have the MVP and he makes guys better and the suns still have an all-star in Marion, very good shooters and role players ..

Look out that window....

I'm sure one day you will make sense

why dallas fans are so bitter against the suns is beyond me...always looking to see them fail...guess suns beating the mavs in the playoffs was the last straw uh?

mary
10-20-2005, 03:28 PM
Steve13, I would think the thing about the Mavs if Dirk went down. Most teams aren't equipped to handle losing their best player, and arguably the Suns are without their two best players from last year.

Steve13
10-20-2005, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by: mary
Steve13, I would think the thing about the Mavs if Dirk went down. Most teams aren't equipped to handle losing their best player, and arguably the Suns are without their two best players from last year.

Difference is the mavs don't have a guy who won the MVP and another all-star after Dirk...suns are in a better position to cope. the suns would of been in worse shape if nash went down than amare....

suns added good role players and shooters this summer and finally have a guy who can rebound and score like kurt thomas..they will be fine and should still compete for the division title..people forget how good nash is at setting guys up..mainly guys who can shoot and run

sike
10-20-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by: Steve13

Originally posted by: sike
so booked, so booked, so booked.


the Wariors beat 'em couple nights ago...watch our for the GS warriors!

spurs are 0-4 in pre-season guess that means they will be lottery bound then?

fact is suns still have the MVP and he makes guys better and the suns still have an all-star in Marion, very good shooters and role players ..to dismiss them is foolish.

pull back the claws kitten.

If you want to bank your team on 17 pts, 11apg, wonderful shooting, no defense...fine...but with Amare out...you miss your Dominant force. I said nothing about the Suns being horrible and certainly said nothing stupid like spouting off preseason records to prove a point. If you would have actually read my post, it says to watch out for GS, not the Suns will blow.
I lovingly accept your apology.

sike
10-20-2005, 03:39 PM
for the record: I have nothing against the Suns, I don't need to be reminded that Nash is good at "setting guys up", and I realize that Nash is only as good as the cast around him...and the Suns cast has just gone from exceptional to good.

But there are lots of "good" teams out there...

mary
10-20-2005, 03:47 PM
suns added good role players and shooters this summer and finally have a guy who can rebound and score like kurt thomas..they will be fine and should still compete for the division title..people forget how good nash is at setting guys up..mainly guys who can shoot and run

Don't forget that Nash has also had the fortune of A) playing with the best 7-foot shooter in the game and B)playing with one of the most athletic finishers in the game. The "he makes his teammates better" usually runs both ways.

Thespiralgoeson
10-24-2005, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by: mary

suns added good role players and shooters this summer and finally have a guy who can rebound and score like kurt thomas..they will be fine and should still compete for the division title..people forget how good nash is at setting guys up..mainly guys who can shoot and run

Don't forget that Nash has also had the fortune of A) playing with the best 7-foot shooter in the game and B)playing with one of the most athletic finishers in the game. The "he makes his teammates better" usually runs both ways.

Thank you, Mary, for saying what I've been thinking.

DubOverdose
10-24-2005, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by: Steve13

Originally posted by: sike
so booked, so booked, so booked.


the Wariors beat 'em couple nights ago...watch our for the GS warriors!

spurs are 0-4 in pre-season guess that means they will be lottery bound then?

fact is suns still have the MVP and he makes guys better and the suns still have an all-star in Marion, very good shooters and role players ..to dismiss them is foolish.
What happened to those Timberwolves last season? As I recall they had the MVP in KG (much better than Nash) and Sam Cassel was an All Star player...so was Spree, right? Point is, shit happens, teams fall apart. MVP doesn't promise success every season.

FreshJive
10-24-2005, 02:54 PM
I watched the Suns last night, and Nash was scoring at will and running over the defense as usual. They actually look like when Amare gets back they will better than last year. None of the slowing down or changed identity that I've seen predicted on here. Although it was the Kings they were playing.

MeMavsFan
10-24-2005, 03:36 PM

MeMavsFan
10-24-2005, 03:39 PM

MeMavsFan
10-24-2005, 03:40 PM

MeMavsFan
10-24-2005, 03:41 PM

MeMavsFan
10-24-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by: FreshJive
I watched the Suns last night, and Nash was scoring at will and running over the defense as usual. They actually look like when Amare gets back they will better than last year. None of the slowing down or changed identity that I've seen predicted on here. Although it was the Kings they were playing.


Not only were they plaing the kings but they were playing the kings scrubs. Adelman pretty much gave the starters the night off. None of them played at all past the 1st quarter. The argument is that the Suns won't be as good as last year and this although most like true has not been proven one way or the other, especially not by last night's game. No one said they would become the bobcats.

DelNegro
10-24-2005, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by: FreshJive
I watched the Suns last night, and Nash was scoring at will and running over the defense as usual. They actually look like when Amare gets back they will better than last year. None of the slowing down or changed identity that I've seen predicted on here. Although it was the Kings they were playing.

Bibby, Peja, Shareef and Miller combined for a whopping 40 minutes last night. Nash, Marion, JJones, KThomas & Raja Bell combined for 153. But if seeing the Suns starting 5 beat up on Kenny Thomas and the Kings bench scrubs is the re-assurance you need that all will be well in the land of the setting Sun, then enjoy your big victory.

sike
10-24-2005, 10:40 PM
very nice, DN.

chumdawg
10-25-2005, 02:41 AM
Thank you, DN. I am excited about the early reports of the new Suns teams doing well on the offensive end--especially against those hated Kings teams.

Go Nash, et. al!!!

FreshJive
10-25-2005, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by: DelNegro

Originally posted by: FreshJive
I watched the Suns last night, and Nash was scoring at will and running over the defense as usual. They actually look like when Amare gets back they will better than last year. None of the slowing down or changed identity that I've seen predicted on here. Although it was the Kings they were playing.

Bibby, Peja, Shareef and Miller combined for a whopping 40 minutes last night. Nash, Marion, JJones, KThomas & Raja Bell combined for 153. But if seeing the Suns starting 5 beat up on Kenny Thomas and the Kings bench scrubs is the re-assurance you need that all will be well in the land of the setting Sun, then enjoy your big victory.

It seems I may have mentioned the competition, and the words "big victory" are nowhere to be found. My point was that contrary to what I have seen predicted a) the suns have not drastically changed thier playing style b) they seem to have plenty of shooters and scorers c) Nash looks the same as last year d) I wouldn't be surprised if they are a better team than last year after Amare comes back. Appreciate the box score, though. (Did I mention I saw the game?)

DelNegro
10-25-2005, 06:14 PM
It seems I may have mentioned the competition, and the words "big victory" are nowhere to be found. My point was that contrary to what I have seen predicted a) the suns have not drastically changed thier playing style b) they seem to have plenty of shooters and scorers c) Nash looks the same as last year d) I wouldn't be surprised if they are a better team than last year after Amare comes back. Appreciate the box score, though. (Did I mention I saw the game?)

While you were there did you notice the Kings 4 best players spending a dis-proportionate amount of time on the bench? All that game showed is that the Suns starters are better than the Kings bench. If that's all you need to see then fine, but color me un-impressed. If the Suns can do all that when the games count and teams actually give a damn, then we'll know whether your points "a" thru "d" have really been addressed.

Switching gears to Amare, I wish nothing but the best for him, but the smart play is to keep him out for the year. That procedure is way too scary and he's way too talented and way too young to take chances with. It ain't worth it. You don't take chances with the franchise player. I hope he makes a complete recovery, but the competitor in him is going to make him want to speed the recovery along and that's dangerous.

FreshJive
10-26-2005, 01:50 PM
I wasn't there. I saw the game on the magic picture box, and yes I made a few guesses that cannot be proven until the season plays out. Hell, people here freak out about a few blocks or rebounds in a summer league game.