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View Full Version : Iverson is still the man.


Thespiralgoeson
01-08-2006, 01:10 PM
33.1 ppg
3.2 rpg
7.3 apg
2.12 spg
.448 FG% (wow!)
.323 3P%
.785 FT%

The Answer has also cut down on his turnovers, and leads the league in FT attempts. Not only has he not slowed down at the age of 30, but he's also become one of the most efficient players in the league. AI is ever the badass.

Dtownsfinest
01-08-2006, 02:08 PM
I wonder what's the knock on him now? He's shooting the ball great, scoring at will and is playing great defense. Are we going to complain about his 3 point percentage now? The guy is greatness. I use to think he was a top 20 player but not top 15. I see no reason why this guy isn't top 5 material. One of the best players in the league. He's also one of the best proffesionals. He's come a long way as far as becoming a better man goes.

Thespiralgoeson
01-08-2006, 02:24 PM
Top 5? I've always thought he was top 3. Really, I think he's the second best player in the league (as much as it pains me to say, behind Kobe)

rabbitproof
01-08-2006, 02:26 PM
And he wants to represent for Team USA!

Always liked the guy's fearlessness and crossover but now he's a complete player, not just an amazing scorer.

Thespiralgoeson
01-08-2006, 02:43 PM
And he wants to represent for Team USA!

Always liked the guy's fearlessness and crossover but now he's a complete player, not just an amazing scorer.

Iverson's always been a complete player... Really, the only thing I didn't like about his game was the turnovers. He was always a great passer, but I never understood why everyone maligned him for being this terrible ballhog, when he never had anything resembling a reliable scorer next to him... Whenever he had even decent players next to him, the Sixers traded them away. Honestly, who the hell was he supposed to share the ball with? Jerry Stackhouse? Glenn Robinson? I thought the tandem of Eric Snow and KVH was a decent supporting cast for AI, but the Sixers traded them away too... Also, Larry Brown moved him to the 2 which of course diminished his assist totals.

Still, the only thing AI's doing different is shooting a better percentage and committing fewer turnovers. He's always throughout his career been a great passer, and a truly phenominal off the ball defender.

DubOverdose
01-08-2006, 03:11 PM
Don't care for the guy. He has all the talent in the world, but he's a loser.

Hitman
01-08-2006, 04:16 PM
He is an amazing talent. Breathtaking, once in a lifetime talent.

But he will never win an NBA title as the main option.

alby
01-08-2006, 07:17 PM
it definitely wouldn't be his fault if he doesn't win an NBA title

twelli
01-08-2006, 07:25 PM
If LeBron continues to grow in the right direction, the kobes and iversons will soon be forgotten. He does everything that those two do, and he's just warming up...

Murphy3
01-08-2006, 09:04 PM
Top 5? No...He might be back in the top 10, but let's not go overboard.

WayOutWest
01-09-2006, 12:59 PM
Top 5? No...He might be back in the top 10, but let's not go overboard.

Agreed. Fantastic offensive players like Iverson, T-Mac and even LeBron seem to get a pass on defense. They are not good defenders, some by choice others by circumstance. While Iverson's speed really helps with steals, his small NBA size hurts him on D. AI can't really even challenge a spot up jumpshooter because of his height.

Iverson is definately top 10 but his lack of D keeps him out of the top 5.

Murphy3
01-09-2006, 03:40 PM
Not practicing doesn't help either...But hey, it's just practice.

AxdemxO
01-09-2006, 05:42 PM
AI is prolly in the top 10 and prolly at the end of his carrer wil b top 5.
People shouldnt use his size against hiM, it one of the things that makes the stuff he does even more amazing.

people love to HATE.

WayOutWest
01-09-2006, 07:03 PM
AI is prolly in the top 10 and prolly at the end of his carrer wil b top 5.
People shouldnt use his size against hiM, it one of the things that makes the stuff he does even more amazing.

people love to HATE.

I'm not using his size against him, other players are doing that making AI a defensive liability.

Dtownsfinest
01-09-2006, 09:00 PM
AI's a defensive liability? Man WTF? Have you ever seen AI's defense closing games?

#1MavsFan
01-09-2006, 10:42 PM
Don't care for the guy. He has all the talent in the world, but he's a loser.
He's a loser? He did get his team to the finals before. If you consider that being a loser, you have to consider Dirk, KG, TMAC, Lebron, etc all losers as well.

Also Dtownsfinest has it down right, AI is actually considered a pretty great defender.

After all he was named Big East Defensive Player of the Year in 1995 and 1996.
Last season he got 6 NBA All-Defensive first team votes.


He's a much better defender than a lot of you guys give him credit for. He's for sure a top 5 talent, try and name 5 players more valuable to their team's success than AI.

Drbio
01-09-2006, 10:54 PM
prolly? wtf?


AI is a talented baller. I think we can all agree on that. Dub is probably referring to his demeanor so you simply cannot compare him to the likes of Dirk, TMac, LeBron, etc. Those guys aren't "thugs" which is what I think Dub was leaning towards.

I've read some good stuff on AI for his off-the-court life. Of course, I've read and heard a ton of bad stuff too.

Thespiralgoeson
01-10-2006, 05:27 AM
If LeBron continues to grow in the right direction, the kobes and iversons will soon be forgotten. He does everything that those two do, and he's just warming up...

That's ridiculous. Really, that'd be like saying Bird and Magic are forgotten because of MJ. If AI is forgotten (which I seriously doubt will happen anytime soon), it won't be because of LeBron.

Thespiralgoeson
01-10-2006, 05:39 AM
Agreed. Fantastic offensive players like Iverson, T-Mac and even LeBron seem to get a pass on defense. They are not good defenders, some by choice others by circumstance. While Iverson's speed really helps with steals, his small NBA size hurts him on D. AI can't really even challenge a spot up jumpshooter because of his height.

Are guys f*cking kidding me? Murphy, you obviously have an axe to grind with Iverson, because he's putting up (again) one of the most statistically dominant seasons in recent years. And you guys are telling me you can name five players who are having a better season? Nonsense.

Iverson is definately top 10 but his lack of D keeps him out of the top 5.
W.O.W., first of all, have you ever actually watched Iverson play? Because if your knock on his game is "his lack of D" then I have trouble believing you have. Iverson is a very good defender despite his size.

And furthermore, you say defense or lackthereof keeps Iverson out of the top 5... You mention LeBron and T-Mac in the same sentence (which is also unwarranted because T-Mac is an excellent defender) Anyway, does your logic apply to every player, or just Iverson? What I mean is, are T-Mac, LeBron and everyone else you don't see to be great defensive players excluded from the top 5? If so, please tell me who's your top 5...

Arne
01-10-2006, 05:48 AM
Iverson has really grown on me. I started to really love the guy during the Olympics, when he was one of the best players and showed a great positive attitude.

His stats this year are amazing and there's hardly anybody who had as little support from other good players on his team throughout his career than Iverson. He's a great guy and a fierce competitor.

His defense is alright and he's really improved the efficiency of his scoring. I'd really like to see him play with a guy like Shaq.

Anyways, he's a great guy to have in this league and a lot of fun to watch.

chumdawg
01-10-2006, 09:53 AM
He's pretty much the best pound-for-pound player in the game.

WayOutWest
01-10-2006, 10:10 AM
And furthermore, you say defense or lackthereof keeps Iverson out of the top 5... You mention LeBron and T-Mac in the same sentence (which is also unwarranted because T-Mac is an excellent defender) Anyway, does your logic apply to every player, or just Iverson? What I mean is, are T-Mac, LeBron and everyone else you don't see to be great defensive players excluded from the top 5? If so, please tell me who's your top 5...

I mention those guys as well because I DON'T consider them top 5.

My top five (today anyway):
TD: no doubt he's the best of the best, everthing you want in a franchise player. Plays hard on both ends of the court and more importantly he's very effective.

Shaq: Snack or Shaq is really going down fast but is still the most dominant player in the game today. If his last few games are any indication he may drop out of the top five next year.

KG :most versitle player in the league today on BOTH ends of the court.

Kobe: his offense is as good as anyone's including AI and he puts alot of effort in on D and can lock players down in short spurts.

Amare: before he was hurt he was a budding superstar. Very good defender and a bull on offense in the paint. He's eventually going to have to learn some finess moves because he won't always have that tremendous athletic ability to jump over and through defenders. You always want your bigman to be an inside precense and Amare is on both offense and defense.

The rest:
Dirk : been spending alot of time dicsussing this guy on another forum and have moved this guy up a couple of notches. His offense has always been excellent. His rebounding numbers are very good but I still have my doubts about the way he gets his rebounds and the effort he puts in on defense. I really have to try and catch more Dallas games but I don't have League Pass so I can only catch nationally televised games.

JO/Brand: solid franchise players. These guys are solid bread and butter type players on both ends of the court. JO is a bit more refined on the offensive end but Brand is a harder worker on defense plus he's not a big crybaby like JO.

AI: has always been a dangerous offensive weapon but his shot selection and shooting % have always been a knock on this guy. He's improved in both those area's this year and is having a fantastic year. While AI's quickness helps keep him in front of players it's very easy for the average NBA guard to shot over him. Players are not blowing by AI but nobody has any trouble shooting over him.

LeBron: what can you say about this guy, he's everything the hype promised. I don't consider him a good defender. I don't see much effort from him on D nor do I see him get critical stops when the Cavs need one.

T-Mac: very much like Kobe without the effort on D. While his size prevents most guards from posting him up his easy going style on D IMO is a big drawback.

kg_veteran
01-10-2006, 10:13 AM
Just passing through the thread, and I noticed that WOW referred to Amare Stoudemire as a very good defender.

Huh? He's a horrible defender with very little interest in playing defense.

WayOutWest
01-10-2006, 10:15 AM
Just passing through the thread, and I noticed that WOW referred to Amare Stoudemire as a very good defender.

Huh? He's a horrible defender with very little interest in playing defense.

Maybe it's a playoffs thing with Amare because he's excellent in the playoffs. Patrols the paint and he's an excellent at helping from the weak side. Most of what I've seen from Amare is against Duncan, can't gauge it any better than that.

aexchange
01-10-2006, 10:35 AM
Maybe it's a playoffs thing with Amare because he's excellent in the playoffs. Patrols the paint and he's an excellent at helping from the weak side. Most of what I've seen from Amare is against Duncan, can't gauge it any better than that.

must be. amare is worse on D than dirk was his first 2 years in the league. amare is a walking turnstile on D.

WayOutWest
01-10-2006, 11:49 AM
must be. amare is worse on D than dirk was his first 2 years in the league. amare is a walking turnstile on D.

To a certain extent I agre, Amare is one of those guys that relys on the shot block instead of good footwork and position. Right now it works but he's not going to be 20ish for ever.

kg_veteran
01-10-2006, 12:26 PM
Maybe it's a playoffs thing with Amare because he's excellent in the playoffs. Patrols the paint and he's an excellent at helping from the weak side. Most of what I've seen from Amare is against Duncan, can't gauge it any better than that.

Duncan scored over 27 ppg on 52.7% FG shooting in that series. I agree that Amare is a decent weakside shotblocker, but that's about it. He's an awful man-to-man defender who just figures he'll dominate on the other end. Of course, he's usually right about that.

DeusDeOmini
01-10-2006, 01:47 PM
LMAO. Amare is so overatted, im sorry, but calling him good on Defense is just a joke.
And Amare is a bad defensive rebounder for the freak of nature athlete he is. He pulls down 8 boards a game, and im pretty sure 2 or 3 of those are offensive. Dirk is so much better then Amare its not even funny. Take Nash off the Suns, Astare (I call him that because of the way the refs officiated him, especially in the Mavs series, we couldn't breathe on him) and he'd put up 22/9 at best.

Dwight Howard has way more upside, he can rebound and play D lightyears better....put him with Nash and see how his O looks.

aexchange
01-10-2006, 02:10 PM
just don't have a lot of respect for any player that calls himself black jesus.

chumdawg
01-10-2006, 02:36 PM
Duncan scored over 27 ppg on 52.7% FG shooting in that series. I agree that Amare is a decent weakside shotblocker, but that's about it. He's an awful man-to-man defender who just figures he'll dominate on the other end. Of course, he's usually right about that.Yeah, but that's Tim Duncan you are talking about.

By way of comparison, Amare scored 37 a game, on 55%. What, if anything, does that say about Duncan's defense?

Five-ofan
01-10-2006, 03:15 PM
A) Shaq hasnt been the most dominant player in the league for at least 3 years and that catch phrase is getting damn old. He is still the biggest player in the game but he isnt dominant anymore. B) Amare is terrible defensively. Dont knock AI who while not the defender his stats make him look like, is still above average defensively for his D and then praise amare for his. C) pretty much your whole list looks like it was written by someone whos sole source of bball is espn highlights. That is very bad.

WayOutWest
01-10-2006, 03:34 PM
A) Shaq hasnt been the most dominant player in the league for at least 3 years and that catch phrase is getting damn old. He is still the biggest player in the game but he isnt dominant anymore. B) Amare is terrible defensively. Dont knock AI who while not the defender his stats make him look like, is still above average defensively for his D and then praise amare for his. C) pretty much your whole list looks like it was written by someone whos sole source of bball is espn highlights. That is very bad.

A.)Said that already about Shaq.
B.)Said that already about AI.
C.)Pretty much your whole post indicates you can't think for yourself. Give it a try, it's tons of fun.

I don't watch ESPN except for Poker. My opinions come from watching the games. Often I will use stats to back up my opinion but I don't use stats as the sole source for my opinion. I'm also not a homer, that's the biggest problem with team based boards.

kg_veteran
01-10-2006, 04:05 PM
Yeah, but that's Tim Duncan you are talking about.

By way of comparison, Amare scored 37 a game, on 55%. What, if anything, does that say about Duncan's defense?

That it was pretty poor in that series, to the extent that he was covering Amare (other guys spent time on him as well), but we already both agree that Amare is a dominant offensive force.

Amare has the tools to be a good defender one day, but he's not one now.

AxdemxO
01-10-2006, 04:24 PM
Not many guys can do wht Iverson can, the guy is just amazing.

Now as far as Shaq...i think he is overrated.
I say tht because if he is 3 feet from the basket he is useless offensevly.
All he does is use his size and dunk other thn tht he doesnt do anythin else.
He is the reason the Lakers won those championships , not Kobe.
But Shaq is done.

snoop
01-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Iverson is the poster child of the shelfish NBA player. I think for all his talent which is incredible, he will always be the player who becomes a blackhole when it matters.

#1MavsFan
01-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Iverson is the poster child of the shelfish NBA player. I think for all his talent which is incredible, he will always be the player who becomes a blackhole when it matters.
Please, he had no one on his teams before who did you want him to pass the ball to? Everyone knew he had to pretty much carry those Sixer teams if they were to get anywhere. Also he's averaging over 7 assists a game this season. When a player not on someoneís favorite team is having an amazing season why must they try and bring him down?

Dtownsfinest
01-11-2006, 03:39 AM
How many times has the word "overrated" been used lol. Everyones overrated according to this thread. The word "overrated" is beginning to become overrated it seems and most of the time misused.

WayOutWest
01-11-2006, 12:02 PM
How many times has the word "overrated" been used lol. Everyones overrated according to this thread. The word "overrated" is beginning to become overrated it seems and most of the time misused.

I'll be the first to say your post is overrated!

alby
01-13-2006, 02:22 PM
i know one thing.

Iverson is not overrated.

imagine being that size but still doing so well for so long

Thespiralgoeson
01-14-2006, 02:03 PM
I
Amare: before he was hurt he was a budding superstar. Very good defender and a bull on offense in the paint. He's eventually going to have to learn some finess moves because he won't always have that tremendous athletic ability to jump over and through defenders. You always want your bigman to be an inside precense and Amare is on both offense and defense.


ARE YOU NUTS????? Amare is a horrible defender! Son, you need to start watching basketball before you talk about players like T-Mac, LeBron and Iverson being out of the top 5 because of their defense, and then you name Amare Stoudemire. I'll give you LeBron; not a great defender. But Iverson and T-Mac are both excellent defenders. They're not quite on the same level defensively as Kobe, but very few are.

Thespiralgoeson
01-14-2006, 02:10 PM
Iverson is the poster child of the shelfish NBA player. I think for all his talent which is incredible, he will always be the player who becomes a blackhole when it matters.

Give me a f*cking break. How the hell does someone average 7 assists and still get the lable "poster child of the selfish NBA player"

Drbio
01-14-2006, 04:15 PM
Good question. He does become a "blackhole" at times, but to be fair, the play calling is designed that way in many of those cases. I don't want to get on the "defend AI" bandwagon here, but it is a good question.

alby
01-15-2006, 06:52 PM
honestly, all the great scorers in the history of this league has been somewhat "selfish"

Murphy3
01-15-2006, 07:33 PM
honestly, all the great scorers in the history of this league has been somewhat "selfish"
Iverson just takes it to a new level.
;)

DubOverdose
01-15-2006, 09:44 PM
Give me a f*cking break. How the hell does someone average 7 assists and still get the lable "poster child of the selfish NBA player"
This is where stats mean jack crap and you have to watch the game. Iverson is always looking for his own shot first. He's never looking to really get his team involved. Last season he was TERRIBLE, I mean, as bad as a franchise player can get when playing alongside an all-star PF. CWebb and Iverson together should win 50 games in the East based on talent. They should be able to play the two man game all night long, and kick it out to Korver if things go bad. However, Iverson hasn't made that work. Its his job to get that team going, and he's put up the stats, no doubt about that, but he's losing. If he stopped looking for his shot all the time, that team would probably win 50 games.

alby
01-15-2006, 09:47 PM
last year Webber was playing on 1/2 a knee, Iverson was called to do what he did...

if he stopped looking for his own shot, that team would win 20-30 games..

#1MavsFan
01-15-2006, 11:52 PM
That team doesn't have the talent to win 50 games. They have Webber on the downside of his career, a couple young guys, and that’s about all. Alby's right, if AI didn't look for his own shot just about every time down last season, they would have been at the bottom of the east.

Its funny how your just looking for things that you can bring the guy down for since its apparent you don't like him for whatever reason. He's having a MVP caliber season, he’s shooting a high percentage, dishing out some assists, and playing some tough D. What’s not to like about the guy? He gives it his all every game, and he doesn't get discouraged by the fact he’s the half the size of the players he gets banged up by on a daily basis. And to top of it off he wants to represent his country in the Olympics, and is looking forward to it unlike most superstars. He's top 5 in the league, no question.

#1MavsFan
01-15-2006, 11:52 PM
That team doesn't have the talent to win 50 games. They have Webber on the downside of his career, a couple young guys, and thatís about all. Alby's right, if AI didn't look for his own shot just about every time down last season, they would have been at the bottom of the east.

Its funny how your just looking for things that you can bring the guy down for since its apparent you don't like him for whatever reason. He's having a MVP caliber season, heís shooting a high percentage, dishing out some assists, and playing some tough D. Whatís not to like about the guy? He gives it his all every game, and he doesn't get discouraged by the fact heís the half the size of the players he gets banged up by on a daily basis. And to top of it off he wants to represent his country in the Olympics, and is looking forward to it unlike most superstars. He's top 5 in the league, no question.

alby
01-16-2006, 01:18 AM
Iverson shoots a higher percentage than the followlng players:

kobe
arenas
tmac
vc
redd
ray allen
jrichardson
cwebb
bibby
billups
marbury
jamison
zach randolf
baron davis

guys from the top 40 in scoring

Five-ofan
01-18-2006, 09:31 AM
Dont knock me for being a homer when you list kobe (every bad thing said about iverson can be said about kobe with the exception of size.) Also you just said that shaq was the most dominant player in the league I commented on that and said it was wrong. It is. He is an 18 and 10 or so guy now. Very good and would love to have him but he isnt what he used to be. He isnt top 10 or top 15 let along top 5. This is purely left over laker homerism. That said when he was younger he was amazing and much more talented than he gets credit for. He had incredibly quick feet and great hands but he just isnt that great anymore. I do think for myself. THese are my opinions. Im not real sure who else said them especially the shaq one but if they share an opinion thats fine.