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alby
01-22-2006, 10:43 PM
hopefully this will put those talks about the 62 point game against the Mavericks to rest...

2nd highest point total in the history of the National Basketball Association

Sunday January 22, 2006

in Los Angeles

vs Toronto Raptors

Kobe Bryant
81 points
28-46 field goals
7-13 three pointers
18-20 free throws
6 rebounds
2 assists
3 steals
1 block

104 Toronto Raptors
122 LA Lakers

whether you are a fan or not, you have to marvel at those numbers

alby
01-22-2006, 10:45 PM
sorry, but that is just sickening...

MavsFanFinley
01-22-2006, 10:46 PM
It was incredible. Call him selfish if you want but he's doing amazing things this year. They currently hold the 7th seed and could be a nightmare for any team in the playoffs.

Stranger
01-22-2006, 10:48 PM
Amazing... I never would have expected anyone to top 80 in this era of basketball.

mary
01-22-2006, 10:49 PM
It was incredible. Call him selfish if you want but he's doing amazing things this year. They currently hold the 7th seed and could be a nightmare for any team in the playoffs.

I agree. I want no part of them in the first round.

#1MavsFan
01-22-2006, 10:50 PM
uhhhhhhhhhhh

#1MavsFan
01-22-2006, 10:50 PM
Wow just about everything he threw up seemed to go in. Before people jump on his back for not passing the ball more, look at the game stats. Odom, George, Kwame, Vujacic, Cook, and Walton were a combined 3 for 22.

Think he could have seriously challenged Wilts record if he didn't sit out 7 minutes?

Drbio
01-22-2006, 10:52 PM
He now leads all rapists in 80 point games.

alby
01-22-2006, 10:55 PM
if they make the playoffs, he is the league's MVP no doubt about it...

mary
01-22-2006, 10:55 PM
So....two questions:

1. Do we beat the Lakers in a 7 game series?

2. Will voters disregard the Lakers' record and give Kobe the MVP, assuming he keeps putting up 40 point games on a regular basis?

alby
01-22-2006, 10:57 PM
the voters will love this game, just like how they fell in love with Reggie Bush's vs Fresno State and give him the MVP...

#1MavsFan
01-22-2006, 10:57 PM
does the quick reply always double post for anyone else?

#1MavsFan
01-22-2006, 10:57 PM
1. Yes, but Kobe will have one or two of these kind of games (not as much as 80 though), mavs in 6.
2. I hate to say it, but the voters and the media will mention this game when time comes to vote for the MVP.

alby
01-22-2006, 10:58 PM
I don't see how we would lose to them in a 7-game series...

HexNBA
01-22-2006, 11:02 PM
The guy is a jerkoff but there's no denying he's an incredibly special player

MFFL
01-22-2006, 11:03 PM
55 pts in the 2nd half

MFFL
01-22-2006, 11:09 PM
1. Yes, but Kobe will have one or two of these kind of games (not as much as 80 though), mavs in 6.
2. I hate to say it, but the voters and the media will mention this game when time comes to vote for the MVP.

Mavs will have a hard time stopping Kobe - only a team with a REPUTATION for defensive prowess will be allowed to play physical on him. He got 20 FTs tonight.

Kobe will probably be the MVP. The media machine likes him for some reason.

Milles
01-22-2006, 11:28 PM
Mavs will have a hard time stopping Kobe - only a team with a REPUTATION for defensive prowess will be allowed to play physical on him. He got 20 FTs tonight.

Kobe will probably be the MVP. The media machine likes him for some reason.

The media likes the, "bad boys", they are sexy, they spark controversy. At the begining of the year, some were speculating that Artest could be a pick for MVP, that one has gone the way of the Dodo. Dirk and Nash are not the sexy picks for MVP, even though they are sexy in their own right. Oh yeah, Billups is not sexy either.

OzMavs
01-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Mumma's don't let your sons grow up to be rapists.

grndmstr_c
01-22-2006, 11:53 PM
He really is on one hell of a scoring roll right now. His averages for January: 45.5 ppg on 61.5% true shooting. I'd be really interested to know if anyone other than Wilt has ever had a 10 game stretch like that. Just absurd.

Milles
01-23-2006, 12:17 AM
hopefully this will put those talks about the 62 point game against the Mavericks to rest...

2nd highest point total in the history of the National Basketball Association



Sorry to say, I don't think this will put his game vs the Mavs to rest. It will be an adjunct, where in one season Kobe scored 81 points and in another game out scored the Mavs by himself, 62/61 at the end of 3 quarters.

samoan-maverickII
01-23-2006, 12:26 AM
ive seen better.

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 12:29 AM
I thought to myself when I saw this on Sportscenter that this officially ends all hope for Dirk for MVP if Kobe wills his team, (err, um, I guess you can call it a Team), to the playoffs... That and Dirk rebounding like a PG lately, (I know Murph, I know... AS LONG AS THE TEAM GETS THE REBOUND)! ;)

Dtownsfinest
01-23-2006, 12:37 AM
Unbelievable. I agree, give the MVP trophy to Kobe if his team makes the playoffs. He's going to get it and if he keeps this up i'm not sure if he doesn't deserve it. Outside of Lamar Odom, who exactly is on the Lakers? They may have the worse starting 5 in the West with the exception being the Blazers.

Dtownsfinest
01-23-2006, 12:39 AM
I don't know. You have to forget the Mavs game now. As a Mavs fan, its hard to wipe it out of my head but as far as the media goes? Occasionally it will be brought up when describing the type of season Kobe has had but the highlight of his season is going to be the day he scored 81 points. How in the hell do you do that lol? Didn't he score more than the Spurs did today? Goodness.

4cwebb
01-23-2006, 12:43 AM
Sorry to say, I don't think this will put his game vs the Mavs to rest. It will be an adjunct, where in one season Kobe scored 81 points and in another game out scored the Mavs by himself, 62/61 at the end of 3 quarters.

I tend to agree. In fact, it may be cause to mention the game again as Kobe could've clearly probably gone for 90.

And Kobe scoring 80+ leads to another question: say Kobe gets on another one of his ridiculous hot streaks in a game and ends up with 65 or so after three quarters. Does the other team basically get out of the way at that point and let Kobe shoot for 101? Is that the type of thing that is just important to be a part of, or, if you're the opponent, do you fight and scratch not to have your name in the record books in that way?

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 12:44 AM
He is without a shadow of a doubt the best player in the NBA right now. If I am starting a team from scratch, do I take a LeBron or Wade to start it off due to their age and other abilities? Maybe. But I know that pound for pound, (and many will disagree due to their hatred for this player), no one is more talented than Mr. Bryant. I personally can't stand him, but his talent can't be questioned...

81 points... 81...

Wow!

twelli
01-23-2006, 01:12 AM
do I take a LeBron or Wade to start it off

I take a LeBron...

Thespiralgoeson
01-23-2006, 01:34 AM
Hate him all you want, I know I do. But he is the best player in the NBA.

Milles
01-23-2006, 02:24 AM
Dirk or Nash for MVP. In the best interests of the basic tenet that basketball is a, "Team Game".

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 02:50 AM
This game is setting the internet on fire...there are multiple threads on a general talk froum that I frequent, there's a thread in a popular Cowboys forum and, last time I checked, there were 5 threads on Spurs Report alone.

Arne
01-23-2006, 04:52 AM
So....two questions:

1. Do we beat the Lakers in a 7 game series?

2. Will voters disregard the Lakers' record and give Kobe the MVP, assuming he keeps putting up 40 point games on a regular basis?
1. Hell yeah! Why shouldn't we? We've got the second best record in this league right now.

2. I hope they don't.

NXperience
01-23-2006, 08:25 AM
I so hope Utah, Minnesota, NOK heck even Golden State to go on a streak and kick these Lakers out of the playoffs.


(yes i do respect his game but it's just no teamplay ... he has someone like lamar odom on his team that was heralded as someone identical like dirk)

dirt_dobber
01-23-2006, 09:10 AM
taken from a pasoter over at dallasbasketball.com "BjaMM"

- Ric Bucher in Portland

Mavs React To Kobe's Big Night When news of Kobe Bryant's 81 against the Raptors spread through the Rose Garden's visiting locker room, the Mavericks' relief over outlasting the Blazers in overtime was replaced by amazement at Bryant's feat.

Amazement, but by no means shock.

That's because the Mavs saw Kobe score 62 on them just a month ago in 33 minutes of a 112-90 Lakers' rout. Mavs guard Darrell Armstrong stabbed his finger at a partial box score showing Kobe had 41 midway through the third quarter against Toronto.

"Imagine if our game had been close," Armstrong said, suggesting that had Bryant not sat the entire fourth quarter he might've had more than 81 that night.

More than anything, the Mavs were simply curious how Kobe put together the second single-highest scoring effort in NBA history, eclipsing all except Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game for Philadelphia against the Knicks in 1962. Only coach Avery Johnson showed more interest in the Sonics' 152-149 double overtime win over the Suns, perhaps because the Mavs play in Seattle on Thursday. But while Johnson marveled at the Sonics winning despite only 40 points in the paint and Luke Ridnour getting 30, the rest of the team looked to dissect Bryant's performance.

"How many times did he get to the line?" asked Jerry Stackhouse. (A relatively modest 18 of 20.)

"How many assists?" asked Keith Van Horn. "He didn't have any against us." (Two assists, three turnovers.)

"He took 47 shots?" asked Devin Harris. (Actually, 46, making 28.)

Someone asked Dirk Nowitzki if he could top 82. "I don't think that would be good from a team standpoint," Nowitzki said.

Stackhouse finished buttoning his shirt and shook his head in pure admiration. "You'd think the Super Bowl would lead SportsCenter tonight," he said. "But you know it won't. It can't. Kobe will. He has to."

-- Ric Bucher in Portland

mary
01-23-2006, 09:11 AM
Dirt Dobber beat me to it :)

dirt_dobber
01-23-2006, 09:16 AM
I like Dirk's response.............

With the way he has been shooting I would at times like to see him take tht many shots
but I think he is the ultimate team guy.

.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 10:00 AM
ive seen better.


genius. Pos rep your way for this piece of gold. :D

Drbio
01-23-2006, 10:04 AM
Someone asked Dirk Nowitzki if he could top 82. "I don't think that would be good from a team standpoint," Nowitzki said.


Which is why Dirk > showbe the drama rapist

Dirkenstien
01-23-2006, 10:20 AM
I think the Lakers would have to be in the top 4, possibly top 5 record wise in the West for Kobe to get the MVP.

Great game by Kobe. I'm glad he sat out the 4th against our Mavericks, though.

Dirk for MVP

vjz
01-23-2006, 10:30 AM
I hope we don't play the Lakers in the playoffs. Not only do we lack confidence against Kobe, he is gonna get every damn call.

endtroducing MASKED
01-23-2006, 10:39 AM
Kobe Bryant is an incredible basketball player.

capitalcity
01-23-2006, 11:40 AM
Kobe Bryant is an incredible basketball player....and a deft rapist. Sometimes God blesses people with multiple talents.

EricaLubarsky
01-23-2006, 12:18 PM
it takes talent to rape?

capitalcity
01-23-2006, 12:30 PM
it takes talent to rape?No it takes a penis.

It takes talent to get away with it.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 01:05 PM
or in the case of showbe rapist...a crapload of money.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 01:19 PM
Sorry, Wilt: You're no Kobe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Is 81 enough?

Eighty-One, people.

I'd say so. I'd say all those pre-Christmas wails about Kobe Bryant ripping us off by hanging 62 points on the Dallas Mavericks in three quarters and then sitting out the fourth can suddenly be recalled with a chuckle.

Turns out Kobe's Dec. 20 detonation was not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for No. 8 to make a run at 80-something points. No one was cheated after all.

Maybe Kobe and his pal Phil Jackson, when they reached that joint decision to stop abusing the Mavs because the Lakers were up by 34, knew they wouldn't have to wait long for another chance at it during an up-for-grabs game.

Why not? You can believe anything on a night like this.

Kobe's chance dutifully materialized almost exactly a month later, on a Sunday that was supposed to belong to gridiron football. You know. The table-setter for Super Bowl Extra Large and all that.

Sorry, NFL.

Sunday will be remembered as the best NBA day in a long, long time. There was a nationally televised buzzer beater in Minnesota from Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala to cap a 19-point comeback in the afternoon ... and then Seattle's Ray Allen beat Phoenix with a way-out buzzer bomb at the horn of overtime No. 2 in a 152-149 throwback thriller ... and then simply the greatest individual performance ever recorded: Bryant's 81 points in a 122-104 come-from-behind victory over the Toronto Raptors.

You'll recall that, sadly, there's no footage of Wilt Chamberlain rumbling for 100 points in Hershey, Pa., on March 2, 1962. Which makes it tough to commission an in-depth analysis comparing Wilt's feat (scoring 100 of his team's 169 points that day) to Kobe's (81 of 122). But I'll gladly settle for the forthcoming flood of Kobe replays, in which you'll see him haul the Lakers back from a 71-53 deficit against a Raps team that kept the game sufficiently close in the final quarter to keep Kobe out there shooting.

Against a Toronto team that somehow held him to 11 points when the teams met in early December -- historic footage now -- Bryant wound up with 55 points after halftime. Fifty-five. For a little perspective, please note that matches the best scoring game in Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's career. That's the same Abdul-Jabbar who, before becoming a Lakers assistant coach, was merely the NBA's all-time scoring leader.

Don't forget, furthermore, that no less an authority than Michael Jordan has been known to say that a perimeter player has it way tougher when it comes to making a legitimate run at Wilt's record. Factor in the ball-handling responsibilities and the energy required to play defense all over the floor and you can understand MJ's theory. This might also help back it up: Jordan himself topped out at 69 points as his one-night best and needed overtime to get there.

No offense to the late, great Chamberlain, but he was in a better position to dominate a box score with the size and strength advantage he possessed, especially in Wilt's era. Some of you will inevitably counter with the claim that Kobe had the benefit of a 3-point line, but don't exaggerate. Having the long-ball option added only seven points to Bryant's total.

With a mere 74, he'd still have registered the richest single-game scoring output in NBA history by anyone not named Wilt.

With 81, so soon after so many opined that he had blown his chance to ever scrape that stratosphere, Bryant has reminded us what we all should know by now about him.

Whatever you think about the game's foremost love-him-or-loathe-him face, and the ongoing debate about how much he shoots, you always have to be ready for What's Next with No. 8.

Chances are it'll be something to dissect for days and days.

Chances are, on the thinnest and neediest team in Jackson's ring-filled history, it won't be the last time Kobe has the forum to fling 40-something shots at history.

capitalcity
01-23-2006, 01:29 PM
Sorry Wilt. Kobe's making a run at 20,000 too.

...one 19-yr-old hotel concierge at a time.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 01:29 PM
the adjusted 74, although impressive ain't 100. showbe the rapist wishes he could carry Wilt's jock.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 01:47 PM
Why adjust it when Wilt wouldn't have shot a 3 anyway?

A two-guard has to expend way more energy than a 7'1 center shooting layups against 6'9 guys.

Plus Wilt shot took 63 shots. 81 points on 46 shots is ridiculous efficiency.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 02:00 PM
You can argue a 2 guard versus a center all day. I won't.

The author adjusted it....even 81 ain't 100. (I did notice how you glazed right past the part where I said it was impressive though).

kobe the rapist is no Wilt the Stilt.

sike
01-23-2006, 02:13 PM
He now leads all rapists in 80 point games.
classic line

sike
01-23-2006, 02:25 PM
81 today is far more impressive than 100 yesterday.

taking all factors into consideration....Kobe's show is better than Wilt's.

dang that fool is amazing.

if the Mavs were to play LA in the playoffs they would win in 5. Though they would hate to do it....you pretty much run a NBA version of a box and one...with the second defender closest to Kobe coming as a double team...they rest of LA is not good enough to make up for the double team.

Dirkenstien
01-23-2006, 03:17 PM
"No it takes a penis."


...And in some cases, not even that

Stranger
01-23-2006, 03:58 PM
As absolutely great as this performance was, I can tell I'm going to get tired of the salivating media pretty soon. "Wilt, you're no Kobe?" Get back to me when Kobe nets 4,000 for the season or averages 20 boards.

capitalcity
01-23-2006, 04:03 PM
Losing
As
Kobe's
Ego
Rockets
Skyward

Drbio
01-23-2006, 04:38 PM
As absolutely great as this performance was, I can tell I'm going to get tired of the salivating media pretty soon. "Wilt, you're no Kobe?" Get back to me when Kobe nets 4,000 for the season or averages 20 boards.

Word.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Losing
As
Kobe's
Ego
Rockets
Skyward


Genius.

sike
01-23-2006, 04:55 PM
As absolutely great as this performance was, I can tell I'm going to get tired of the salivating media pretty soon. "Wilt, you're no Kobe?" Get back to me when Kobe nets 4,000 for the season or averages 20 boards.
cough....*good old days*....cough.....

this comment is just silly. As far as I've heart all the talk has been on a one game basis as in: "was this a better one game performance than Wilt's?"...to which I answer "yes". To suggest that Kobe needs to be able to put up wilt like numbers one should also suggest that Kobe should play aganst very good High Schoolers...or perhaps Oompa Loompas.

sike
01-23-2006, 04:55 PM
Losing
As
Kobe's
Ego
Rockets
Skyward
but they have been winning....

FINtastic
01-23-2006, 05:35 PM
While 81 points is certainly an absolutely unthinkable number, I'm not sure if I'm as quick to jump on the greatest performance of all time bandwagon. Of course the easy number to throw out is Wilt's 100. I suppose there can be debate either way. Triple digits is out of this world no matter how you slice it. Of course, wilt got his buckets just because he was just too damn big and unstoppable, and Kobe had to get his in an era where there are players out there just as big and athletic as he is. So considering how much energy one player has to expend, I'll buy the argument that all factors considered, Kobe had a better performance than Wilt.

If we are going to take all factors into account though, I'd probably go ahead and rank Jordan's game against Cleveland in 1990 above Kobe's game yesterday. Go back and look at that box score of the night Jordan hung 69 on Cleveland:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/games/boxscore.cgi?date=1990-03-28&tm1=CHI&tm2=CLE

While the number of points that Jordan scored in that game is always the number remembered, Jordan played a heck of an all-around game there. 69 points, 18 rebounds (!!!), 6 assists, 4 steals, 1 block, and only 2 turnovers. Oh, and he ended up the game with 5 fouls. I've never watched that game, but I'd be interested to know if foul trouble hindered him from doing even more in that game. But let the numbers he put up sink in for a sec - the man scored 69 points and he was still able to snare 18 rebounds, a ridiculous number for a shooting guard. Why people are so quickly dismissing Jordan's game when they are talking about greatest performances of all time is beyond me. Unless you are specifically qualifying that it was the greatest scoring performance (I know Marc Stein didn't), let's throw in Jordan's game against Cleveland into the mix as well.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 05:45 PM
Good point...I didn't realize that Jordan had so many rebounds in that game. You could certainly make an arguement for that game as the best of all time.

As far as his foul trouble, he played 50 of a possible 53 minutes so I wouldn't think it was much of a factor.

81 is such an obscene number that it jumps off the page. It's even more impressive when you consider that Jordan never came within 11 points of it dispite the fact that in his 3rd season he shot as much as Kobe's shooting now.

FINtastic
01-23-2006, 05:55 PM
Yeah, but there is a possibility that it altered his style of play if he got into foul trouble early enough, and he became less aggressive. I never have actually seen that game, but I would love to back and watch it because it would be interesting to see if this played a noticeable factor in his performance.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 05:57 PM
I've never seen Jordan not be aggressive. I think the difference between the two is that When Jordan was doing most if his shooting (his 3rd and 4the seasons) he wasn't a very good 3-point shooter. If he was then there's no doubt that he'd have gone for at least 70.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 06:03 PM
Stats say Kobe's 81 is better than Wilt's 100
By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

It seems at first glance that Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point night in 1962 is far superior to Kobe Bryant's 81-point game Sunday. After all, Bryant still needed 19 more points -- roughly Pau Gasol's average -- just to catch the Dipper.

But if you stack the two games side by side, you'll come to the startling realization that Bryant's performance was actually far superior. Breaking the two games down by the numbers, it quickly becomes apparent what a dominant night Kobe had. Consider the facts:

Wilt scored 100 of his team's 169 points in the 1962 game.
Bryant was more efficient. Bryant needed 46 shot attempts and 20 free throws to get 81 points. Chamberlain needed 63 field-goal attempts and 32 free-throw tries to get his 100. Bryant's true shooting percentage for the night was 73.9 percent; Chamberlain's was only 63.9 percent.

Bryant's performance was more real. In Chamberlain's game, the Warriors intentionally fouled the Knicks in the final minute of play to get the ball back for another Chamberlain try at the century mark. Only on his third try did he get to 100. At the time, his team was comfortably ahead, as it was for the entire second half, and it won 169-147. Bryant, on the other hand, got almost all his points when they were desperately needed, as his team trailed by 18 early in the third quarter.

Bryant needed fewer minutes. If you want to really be amazed, consider the fact that Kobe sat out for six minutes in the second quarter. So Bryant scored his 81 points in only 42 minutes, while Wilt played the full 48 in his 100-point effort. Had he played for an additional six minutes and scored at the same rate (hardly an unreasonable assumption, given how much gas he appeared to have at the end), Kobe would have finished with 93 points. Yes, 93.

The game was different. Of all the differences between Bryant's game and Chamberlain's, this one is perhaps the biggest. Chamberlain's game ended up 169-147, Bryant's 122-104. Obviously, there was a huge difference in the speed of play, and that meant Chamberlain had far more opportunities to score than Bryant did.

Chamberlain's game featured 233 field-goal attempts versus 164 for Bryant's, and 93 free-throw attempts to 60 for Bryant's. We have no data on turnovers and offensive rebounds for Chamberlain's game, but based on the numbers I just mentioned, we can estimate there were 46 percent more possessions in the Chamberlain game than in the Kobe game.

If that's the case, we need to inflate Kobe's numbers by 46 percent to get an accurate idea of what it equates to in Chamberlain's era. The answer? An unbelievable 118 points. And if we add in six extra minutes for Bryant, we end up with the mind-boggling total of 135. By one player. In one game.

Another way to look at it is by deflating Chamberlain's numbers by a similar amount. If we change his currency into "2006 points," so to speak, the Stilt ends up with 68 points -- still an awesome performance, but clearly not on a level with Kobe's 81-point outburst. And once you adjust for the 48 minutes Chamberlain played vs. Kobe's 42, you end up with 60 points for Wilt -- or just a bit more than Kobe rang up in the second half.

So when our Marc Stein says this is the most amazing performance ever, believe it. Once you adjust for the differences in pace between the two eras and the fact that Bryant sat out for six minutes, even Chamberlain's monumental 100-point game pales by comparison. For basketball historians, Bryant's effort is now the scoring effort against which all others should be measured.

Murphy3
01-23-2006, 06:21 PM
Who really cares? If 81 could ever be a non story, it is now. He plays on a team that doesn't have a prayer of doing anything in the playoffs. He doesn't make his teammates better. He doesn't attempt to make his teammates better. He singlehandedly destroyed a team that was near dynasty status with his selfishness.

I ask again.. Who cares? Does it matter what he does on an individual basis? What he did to destroy the Lakers should disqualify him from all MVP talk and should disqualify him from anyone giving a damn about anything he does on the court.

EricaLubarsky
01-23-2006, 07:16 PM
Who really cares? If 81 could ever be a non story, it is now. He plays on a team that doesn't have a prayer of doing anything in the playoffs. He doesn't make his teammates better. He doesn't attempt to make his teammates better. He singlehandedly destroyed a team that was near dynasty status with his selfishness.

I ask again.. Who cares? Does it matter what he does on an individual basis? What he did to destroy the Lakers should disqualify him from all MVP talk and should disqualify him from anyone giving a damn about anything he does on the court.

exactly what I was thinking, and I'd like to add that he had a nice night with a whopping 61% shooting, but its not that hard to believe that Tony Parker, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, and others including maybe LeBron couldnt also put up 81 points if given 54+ posessions on which to shoot it (FGA+ [FTA/2]-FTs given on and-ones).

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 07:33 PM
You really think that Tony Parker could score 81?

Dirkenstien
01-23-2006, 07:51 PM
What Kobe did is great for the game. It raises the bar on offense for players around the league and dares defenses to improve as to not be embarrassed like the sulking Raptors.

This performance creates a concrete example to what has progressively become an imaginary illusion of numbers that Wilt put up.

sike
01-23-2006, 07:52 PM
I care. most of your kobe opinions are valid. but 81 is worth discussing.

Thespiralgoeson
01-23-2006, 08:27 PM
You know, the real story about this is how horrible Toronto's defense is, right? Because that seemed to be the case when he scored 62 on the Mavs...

alby
01-23-2006, 08:37 PM
if you saw the game (like I did), then you would agree that the Raptors were in shock midway through the 3rd quarter and every single call was for Kobe to shoot the ball, there wasnt much defense being played. 81 points is an incredible feat, but I don't know if this is possible, but it's an overrated 81 just like David Robinson's 71.

EricaLubarsky
01-23-2006, 08:48 PM
You really think that Tony Parker could score 81?

If he was given 54 posessions there is a good chance that in a season he could have an 80+ game, yeah.

The guy is shooting 55% for the season, to Kobe's 45%.

MavsMandy
01-23-2006, 08:57 PM
You know, the real story about this is how horrible Toronto's defense is, right? Because that seemed to be the case when he scored 62 on the Mavs...

take it as a compliment to the mavs. the raptors don't matter nearly enough for anyone to comment on their defense.

#1MavsFan
01-23-2006, 09:03 PM
I doubt TP could hit 50 yet alone 80+. I doubt anyone else could hit 80+; Kobe just has this killer instinct which many players in the league lack. Lebron himself said he did. What Kobe did last night was a once in a lifetime thing. You'll never see anything like it again, I don't get why people are trying to put it aside as if nothing happened. He questionable played the best individual basketball game ever. He scored 81 on 28 of 46 shooting despite having all the defensive attention on him. And to top that off, he scored most of his points when it mattered unlike Wilt. There’s just no way you can say another player in this league can pull off such an amazing performance until he has done so. I highly doubt some of you watched Kobe's performance.

if you saw the game (like I did), then you would agree that the Raptors were in shock midway through the 3rd quarter and every single call was for Kobe to shoot the ball, there wasnt much defense being played. 81 points is an incredible feat, but I don't know if this is possible, but it's an overrated 81 just like David Robinson's 71.
I think the admirals 71 was overrated since most of his points didn't come with the game on line. However most of Kobe’s points did come in a relatively close game as Kobe single handily brought the Lakers back.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 10:26 PM
If he was given 54 posessions there is a good chance that in a season he could have an 80+ game, yeah.

The guy is shooting 55% for the season, to Kobe's 45%.

Andrew Bogut is shooting 54%...for that matter so is DJ, could they score 80? He shoots 55% because he takes mostly lauyps and runners. When he has an open lane he gets to the basket, otherwise he kicks it out. What you're saying is that a guy who averages roughly 15 shoots a game could more than tripple that, yet maintain his shot selection. You have to know that that's a huge leap of faith.

Look at it this way: Jordan shot at will in the early years, so did Dominique and Bird when he was hot. They never went for 70 dispite the fact that the pace of the game was much higher in the 80's. David Robinson went into a game against the Clippers with the sole purpose of winning the scoring title. They fed him the ball at every opportunity and he finished with 71.

While I don't think any of the players you mentioned could make a run at 80, I guess you can make a case. Tony Parker just didn't seem to belong on that list.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 10:46 PM
Whine, manufacture, massage etc etc etc....showbe the drama rapist failed to eclipse Wilt. Period.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 10:49 PM
Nice well thought out argument as always....you really hammered your point home with that “period“.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 10:54 PM
You really hammer that dick thing every time. But thanks for obsessing over me again.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 11:00 PM
You really hammer that dick thing every time.

haha...you do have a way with words

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:02 PM
You do have an inate ability to be a dick. It's nice that you focus in on all of my posts, but nuthugging groupies do get old.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 11:10 PM
Talk about self important...I could care less about your post especially when you try to talk sports. Don't address me and you'll be ok. Otherwise I'll attack you with logic and you'll respond with your phallic fantasies.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:15 PM
Laughable and so predictable. A guy who consistently posts after each of my posts wanting to call someone self important. Responding to me has been your only (misinterpreted) validation for months. I know you enjoy a good phallus, but leave it at home. Stop being such a friggin dick after each post. Your pathetic, unimportant and consistently malinformed drivel only clutters the joint.

As for logic, you can only hope to one day be at my level of intelligence. That isn't bragging, it's just hard plain fact.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 11:18 PM
Before this turns into a full fledged pissing match, let me point out to you why you suck as a poster. I made a post that consisted of my opinion with examples to back it up...you responded with this:

"Whine, manufacture, massage etc etc etc....showbe the drama rapist failed to eclipse Wilt. Period."

Now a good poster would have presented a cognizant counterpoint but you're intellectually lazy. That's why you suck as a poster. The thing is, I can remember a time when you made decent points. Obviously at some point you stopped caring.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:22 PM
The only thing that I have stopped doing is engaging a total dickhead (dirno) in dialogue. It all started when your weak ass uninformed unintelligent drivel became to much to stomach and you began to grow a chubby every time I posted. It became your life mission and obsessive focus to respond to each of my posts....more often than not, in a totally idiotic manner. When you can stop being a total dick, I might enlighten you again. Until then there is no point in chatting with an intellectual inferior.

dirno2000
01-23-2006, 11:29 PM
Doc you post 20 times a day and most of it's garbage. I could care less since it's obvious that you don't know a lot about sports. Fine, you're a brilliant scientist so you can't know everything. If you don't address me I just let it go. The problem is that when you do address me you try to state your opinion as fact...well that and you have a phallic obsession that's making me uncomfortable.

As far as your intellect, that's like a guy bragging about his sexual conquest yet you never see him with a woman. If you're so damned smart, why do you have to keep telling us?

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:36 PM
Just pointing out your ignorance. And I have forgotten more sports than you could ever learn. That's again laughable, but I have come to understand that is all you have in your weak ass bag. Again, I feel no need to engage you, my intellectual inferior, with thoughful prose until you stop being such as dick. If you are so uncomfortable with phallic verbage, perhaps you should try to stop being such a dick. That would be a nice start. You obsess over every one of my posts. It stopped being flattering and went straight into creepy.

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 11:38 PM
I like a lot of you guys that differ from my opinion, and thats OK. I know that Doc absolutely HATES Kobe and frankly, I don't care for him one bit myself. With that said, you simply CANT dismiss what this guy did. Even if you want to believe that Wilt's game was the best of all time, who cares... Forget the specific rank; just acknowledge this as one of the single greatest games of all time, (which it IS), and give the raping ass hole his due respect... He was amazing... He is the best player in the NBA... I would never want him on my team, but he is still absolutely unstoppable. His defense is amazing! His instincts are amazing! His ability to perform in the clutch is amazing! His ability to score is amazing! The dude is amazing and no matter what any of you say or argue about, that won't change that fact... I hope for nothing but failure for the guy, but I can't deny his abilities!

Rapist? I believe so!
Best Player in the NBA? I also believe so!

Just because he is the former does not mean he can't be the latter, and that is the point I am trying to make. Is he a dick? Sure! Is he a show boat with a need for drama? Sure! Is he a terrible teammate? It can damn sure be argued! But again, is he the best pound for pound player in the NBA? I sure as hell think so!!!

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:40 PM
Dan- noone said what he did wasn't impressive. I said very clearly above that it was. dirno just obsesses with my posts and cannot keep up intellectually so he becomes a dick in a misguided attempt at keeping up.

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 11:42 PM
Dan- noone said what he did wasn't impressive. I said very clearly above that it was. dirno just obsesses with my posts and cannot keep up intellectually so he becomes a dick in a misguided attempt at keeping up.

Haha... I actually like both of you a good bit and I think both of you bring a lot to this site so I won't touch that...

And Doc, I know I mentioned your name, but I didn't say you didn't say it was impressive. If you read back through the thread, you will see several who haven't though!

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:45 PM
I do admit to wondering how the hell his shots kept going in. ESPN ran a fast time lapse of each of his made shots. Even sped up it took a long dadgum time.

It was pretty impressive but would have meant a lot more if it weren't done by a known rapist.

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:47 PM
Who really cares? If 81 could ever be a non story, it is now. He plays on a team that doesn't have a prayer of doing anything in the playoffs. He doesn't make his teammates better. He doesn't attempt to make his teammates better. He singlehandedly destroyed a team that was near dynasty status with his selfishness.

I ask again.. Who cares? Does it matter what he does on an individual basis? What he did to destroy the Lakers should disqualify him from all MVP talk and should disqualify him from anyone giving a damn about anything he does on the court.


This post combined with EL's right after it are the best posts in this entire thread.

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 11:50 PM
I do admit to wondering how the hell his shots kept going in. ESPN ran a fast time lapse of each of his made shots. Even sped up it took a long dadgum time.

It was pretty impressive but would have meant a lot more if it weren't done by a known rapist.

Yeah, I know you feel that way and I think it affects how most of the world views this game. Several have said that if Jordan had this game in today's NBA that it would immediately be ranked ahead of Wilts and there would be almost NO ONE questioning it. I happen to agree with that.

Sure, Kobe did all of this to himself, but it is a shame. He basically took himself out of the running for the greatest player in the history of the game because he can never morally live up to Jordan's rep, (even though Jordan had a few question marks). If they played 1-on-1 against each other with both in their prime, I can honestly tell you that I don't know who would win. That is how talented I think the present day Kobe is...

Eh well, hopefully he will score 45 and make Sportscenter fun to watch for the next 5-10 years while missing the playoffs each year...

Drbio
01-23-2006, 11:52 PM
If Jordan were still playing today and IF he scored 81 or even 99....it still doesn't beat Wilt's 100. That's the fact and no amount of massaging, discussion, comparison, etc changes it. It is fun to talk about maybe, but numbers are numbers. dirno can't get past that fact for some odd reason.

Dtownsfinest
01-23-2006, 11:56 PM
LMAO@people thinking Tony Parker could score 81 if he wanted to. I understand why we don't like Kobe the person. Some young girl accused him of raping her and then bailed out of her case. But what I don't understand is why we can't enjoy greatness? You know what made this 81 point game so amazing? Everyone knew what Kobe was going to do. Hell you knew he wasn't going to pass the ball. You knew what was going to occur everytime down court and yet they still couldn't stop him. I won't lie before this season I couldn't stand the play of AI and Kobe. I recognized their talents but I also recognized that they at times can be black holes. But goodness this year both of these players are showing signs of greatness. Kobe doesn't make players around him any better? What player does? Lebron? D. Wade? Hell what about Chauncey Billups? He's making Rasheed and RIP so much better right? Sit back, relax and watch as greatness unfolds. Kobe is still 27 years old. He's still learning the game.

Dtownsfinest
01-23-2006, 11:59 PM
If Jordan were still playing today and IF he scored 81 or even 99....it still doesn't beat Wilt's 100. That's the fact and no amount of massaging, discussion, comparison, etc changes it. It is fun to talk about maybe, but numbers are numbers. dirno can't get past that fact for some odd reason.


Come on now Doc. You have to admit that what Wilt was facing back when he was playing was nothing compared to what Kobe is facing today. What was Wilt? 7'1? Going against guys about half his size? I imagine all he did was layup or dunk all game long. The guys in today's game are in so much better shape its ridiculous. Not to mention that after watching clips from the game it wasn't as if Kobe was driving to the rack all day. A lot of his points came from shots.

Male30Dan
01-23-2006, 11:59 PM
If Jordan were still playing today and IF he scored 81 or even 99....it still doesn't beat Wilt's 100. That's the fact and no amount of massaging, discussion, comparison, etc changes it. It is fun to talk about maybe, but numbers are numbers. dirno can't get past that fact for some odd reason.

But Doc, I do think that there is something to be said for a guy that does it as a guard with MUCH harder shots, (you yourself wondered how they kept going in), with much better defenders vs. a guy that is MUCH thicker, taller, and talented doing it by shooting 5 footers, layups, and dunks.

He also played many more minutes and took many more shots. I can't help but to believe that if you give Kobe those extra shots and those extra minutes that he tops 100. The way he was on that night, I just can't believe he wouldn't have done it. Did he do it? Nope, so I guess I see your point, but it is a fair criticism as far as Wilts game.

Drbio
01-24-2006, 12:00 AM
The point was (and I don't want to speak for EL here) that any NBA player could score 81 if they were selfish and took that many shots (and they hit them at the rate of their current percentage for the season). Parker was included as an example because of his 55% (I think-too lazy to look) shooting percentage.

I think most will agree that:
a) showbe is selfish
b) showbe is a rapist
c) that was an amazing shooting performance

Drbio
01-24-2006, 12:02 AM
Come on now Doc. You have to admit that what Wilt was facing back when he was playing was nothing compared to what Kobe is facing today. What was Wilt? 7'1? Going against guys about half his size? I imagine all he did was layup or dunk all game long. The guys in today's game are in so much better shape its ridiculous. Not to mention that after watching clips from the game it wasn't as if Kobe was driving to the rack all day. A lot of his points came from shots.


Did kobe score 100 points? no. The last time I checked, points were awarded as shots go in. With that in mind, Wilt > showbe the rapist. nuff said. It's fun to talk about, and noone is taking away his effort, but until he scores 100 as Wilt did....he's merely the first loser.

Male30Dan
01-24-2006, 12:04 AM
The point was (and I don't want to speak for EL here) that any NBA player could score 81 if they were selfish and took that many shots (and they hit them at the rate of their current percentage for the season). Parker was included as an example because of his 55% (I think-too lazy to look) shooting percentage.

I think most will agree that:
a) showbe is selfish
b) showbe is a rapist
c) that was an amazing shooting performance

While I certainly don't agree with the fact that anyone could do it with the shots Kobe took, (again, his percentage was amazing), I do agree with A-C! :)

TripleDipping
01-24-2006, 12:53 AM
I think most will agree that:
a) showbe is selfish
b) showbe is a rapist
c) that was an amazing shooting performance

And I agree with A-C, in that particular order as well.

dirno2000
01-24-2006, 01:04 AM
Did kobe score 100 points? no. The last time I checked, points were awarded as shots go in. With that in mind, Wilt > showbe the rapist. nuff said. It's fun to talk about, and noone is taking away his effort, but until he scores 100 as Wilt did....he's merely the first loser.

It's sad that you're too dense to understand concepts like pace, efficiency and rate. At least you know that 100 is more than 81...if nothing else it's proof that you made it past the 4th grade.

Yea, I know...I'm a dick :)

chumdawg
01-24-2006, 01:25 AM
Doc, I thought dirno already exposed you on the rape issue when he quoted the jollies you got about the "save the hotel workers" comment.

Don't include me in those who think Kobe raped the girl. I think the bitch set him up from the get-go, to extort some money. Just like I think the girl who visited Mike Tyson's hotel room at 3am did the same.

Hollinger clearly established the case that Kobe's scoring performance was the greatest of all time. If you want to keep up with your "Wilt's was the best, period" line of argument, you are going to have to counter what Hollinger, one of the premier basketball statisticians, put forth.

Two questions for you:

1) Did you watch Wilt's game?
2) Did you even watch Kobe's game?

twelli
01-24-2006, 01:49 AM
...but its not that hard to believe that Tony Parker, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, and others including maybe LeBron couldnt also put up 81 points if given 54+ posessions on which to shoot it.

Don't care if he's a rapist or not. Don't know him personally, so maybe he's nice in private. But through the media he just seems to be a selfish, arrogant, ego-centric loner.

As an athlete, however, you have to admit that he's talented, hard-working and successful.

He's just better than most others at what he's doing, and I don't think any other player would be able to score 80 right now even if giving the green light for an entire game. As much as I like Dirk, I don't think he would be able to handle the defense thrown at him and still make half of his shots for an entire game. You have to have speed, range, athleticism, stamina, and composure. The only other guy who will challenge all those fancy records in the future is LeBron. He's all about those magic moments (without the bad image no less).

grndmstr_c
01-24-2006, 01:58 AM
So they just replayed this game tonight out here in San Diego, and I caught most of it from about the 5 minute mark in the 3rd quarter on. It just didn't look to me like I was watching a guy playing the greatest game of all time. I mean, Kobe had some nice plays, some pretty shots, but it didn't move me the way I remember some of the truly great performances (in sports, in general) I've seen moved me. Truly historic performances are ones in which a great player transcends a great moment, and that game, it just wasn't a great moment. Whatever numerical transformations you make on Kobe's boxscore, IMO what he did last night was the equivalent of a first-rate sprinter undercutting a world record in a wind-aided quarter-final heat. It's a testament to his talent, but nothing more.

Thespiralgoeson
01-24-2006, 03:36 AM
Doc, what is your point exactly? That Kobe's game was only the second greatest scoring performance in the history of the NBA? Ok, so Wilt scored 100 points in a game... He also averaged 50 ppg in a season once.

I hate Kobe every bit as much as you do, but 81 points is simply incredible. And if Kobe being selfish is something that diminishes his performance, than I ask what do you think of Wilt? Was he not selfish?

Also, let me ask you this. If Wilt played in today's NBA, do you think he'd ever score 100 points? Better yet, would he ever score 81 points?

mary
01-24-2006, 06:40 AM
Well, I happen to do think Kobe was guilty of rape, even though from all accounts I think the encounter began as consensual. That's neither here nor there.

Along with everyone else here, I haven't seen Wilt's game - count me among those who think Kobe's 81 is more impressive simply because Kobe wasn't relying on his size like Wilt to dominate the game. I'll also point out that 1.76 points per shot is obviously pretty efficient and I don't think its as easily duplicated as some are suggesting (the 81 points I mean, not the 1.76).

For example, I don't believe Tony Parker could score 81 on 46 shots even though he shoots the highest FG% in the NBA. Why? Because I don't think Parker would be able to shoot the ball at that high of a clip if he HAD to get off 46 shots during the game. Parker's FG% isn't high because he's a good shooter - its high because he has very good shot selection and is able to penetrate the lane with Tim Duncan on his team. If he were "forced" to shoot the ball 46 times, he'd have to inevitably be forcing alot of bad shots, defenses would start collapsing on him, hell he might have a hard time getting 46 shots off.

Insert any other player's name for Tony Parker's, and I think you have a similar story. I'm not convinced just anyone in the NBA could've done this, given the shot attempts. You can't just extrapolate shooting percentages and assume that nothing else would change. (OTH, I'm not entirely convinced anyone else couldn't do it, but lets not go overboard).

I profess to not being as knowledgeble about basketball as probably most of you, but I really have to disagree that anyone could've done this. That's just sour grapes.

Thespiralgoeson
01-24-2006, 06:54 AM
Insert any other player's name for Tony Parker's, and I think you have a similar story. I'm not convinced just anyone in the NBA could've done this, given the shot attempts. You can't just extrapolate shooting percentages and assume that nothing else would change. (OTH, I'm not entirely convinced anyone else couldn't do it, but lets not go overboard).


46 field goal attempts is a hell of a lot. I agree that tony parker couldn't do it, but I believe if another prolific scorer like AI, LeBron, T-Mac, Wade, Dirk, they might be able to do it. You might even be able to make a case for someone like Arenas or Pierce.

MFFL
01-24-2006, 08:06 AM
http://www.hoophall.com/exhibits/chamberlain_boxscore.htm

One of the things that I noticied about the box score was that Philly actually fed Wilt the ball. One player had 20 assists alone. Kobe DOMINATED the ball, all Lakers combined (other than Kobe) had 16 assists.

MFFL
01-24-2006, 08:21 AM
Bryant's performance was more real. In Chamberlain's game, the Warriors intentionally fouled the Knicks in the final minute of play to get the ball back for another Chamberlain try at the century mark. Only on his third try did he get to 100. At the time, his team was comfortably ahead, as it was for the entire second half, and it won 169-147. Bryant, on the other hand, got almost all his points when they were desperately needed, as his team trailed by 18 early in the third quarter.

This one annoys me. Wilt's team led by 12 at halftime and big comebacks were common back then. In fact the "rule of thumb" back then was that only the last two minutes of a game were important. Teams regularly came back from 10-12 points.

Bryant needed fewer minutes. If you want to really be amazed, consider the fact that Kobe sat out for six minutes in the second quarter. So Bryant scored his 81 points in only 42 minutes, while Wilt played the full 48 in his 100-point effort. Had he played for an additional six minutes and scored at the same rate (hardly an unreasonable assumption, given how much gas he appeared to have at the end), Kobe would have finished with 93 points. Yes, 93.

Another stupid argument. Wilt averaged OVER 48 minutes per game that year. AVERAGED. So he didn't play 48 to set a scoring record - that's the minutes he played. And that many minutes had to be a load. Could Kobe had enough in the tank to score 81 if he had already played 41 games of 48 minute per night ball? I doubt it.

Now let's look at other stats. Wilt had just as many assists (2) and 25 boards. The rest of Kobe's game is very average. Kobe had a "bonus" 7 points from 3 point baskets - something that did not exist in Wilt's era.

Kobe had an amazing game. I don't want to see him in the playoffs. But his best game is inferior to Wilt's.

MFFL
01-24-2006, 08:40 AM
Did you watch Wilt's game?

The game was not televised.

sike
01-24-2006, 09:00 AM
and to think...this was a fine thread...

to Quote Rodney King: "Can't we all just talk basketball?"

Stranger
01-24-2006, 09:27 AM
Big question: will Kobe become the third player to reach 3,000 points in a season?

Stranger
01-24-2006, 09:48 AM
cough....*good old days*....cough.....

this comment is just silly. As far as I've heart all the talk has been on a one game basis as in: "was this a better one game performance than Wilt's?"...to which I answer "yes". To suggest that Kobe needs to be able to put up wilt like numbers one should also suggest that Kobe should play aganst very good High Schoolers...or perhaps Oompa Loompas.

I was objecting to Stein's implication that Kobe is the better basketball player. For the record, I actually agree that Kobe's 81 is more impressive than Wilt's game. Also, I wouldn't underestimate the talent or size that Wilt played against. There were only 8 teams at the time, and Wilt wasn't even the biggest center in the league. He put up his 50 ppg average against guys like Russel, Willis Reed, etc. Hardly the equivalent of highschoolers today. Its an endless an pointless debate, however.

Stranger
01-24-2006, 09:54 AM
Good point...I didn't realize that Jordan had so many rebounds in that game. You could certainly make an arguement for that game as the best of all time.


If I was to pick a single best game of all time, given the surrounding circumstances, I would have to pick Magic in game 6 of the 1980 (79?) finals. In that game, a ROOKIE Magic Johson came off the bench to start at CENTER for the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, scored 40+ and won the trophy for the Lakers, while going up against Moses Malone. I just don't think you can beat that for an individual performance. I would rank Kobe's as the greatest scoring game, however, or greatest offensive game.

dirno2000
01-24-2006, 10:30 AM
If I was to pick a single best game of all time, given the surrounding circumstances, I would have to pick Magic in game 6 of the 1980 (79?) finals. In that game, a ROOKIE Magic Johson came off the bench to start at CENTER for the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, scored 40+ and won the trophy for the Lakers, while going up against Moses Malone. I just don't think you can beat that for an individual performance. I would rank Kobe's as the greatest scoring game, however, or greatest offensive game.

I grew up a Magic fan so that's one of my all time favorite games. Couple of things though: Magic didn't come off the bench, he started the whole season and Moses Malone was still in Houston at the time. Caldwell Jones was Philly's starting center. Also, Magic played more of a point center. He'd bring the ball up the floor, Norm Nixon would call for it (since he was supposed to be the PG) and Magic would just waive him off.

dare152003
01-24-2006, 10:37 AM
Kobe will go out as one of the greatest scorers of all time, similar to the Wilt's and Kareem's.

dare152003
01-24-2006, 10:38 AM
WWHHAAATT!!

Stranger
01-24-2006, 11:17 AM
I grew up a Magic fan so that's one of my all time favorite games. Couple of things though: Magic didn't come off the bench, he started the whole season and Moses Malone was still in Houston at the time. Caldwell Jones was Philly's starting center. Also, Magic played more of a point center. He'd bring the ball up the floor, Norm Nixon would call for it (since he was supposed to be the PG) and Magic would just waive him off.

Thanks for the corrections--I was too young to remember it properly but having had it described to me by my father several times I thought I had the details right. I thought he was up against Moses that night--too bad, cause that would have been really amazing. Still a great performance though. The reason I really like that game though is because they took home the trophy afterwards, and I think that makes a huge difference.

dirno2000
01-24-2006, 11:33 AM
I was only 8 or 9 myself but they showed the entire series on NBA TV this summer.

Murphy3
01-24-2006, 02:14 PM
I personally think that others could do this... It'd just have to be a very special night:

1. He'd have to be playing a team that was playing some rather poor defense on that night
2. It'd need to be an up and down game
3. The player would have to be selfish enough to dominate the ball that much
4. The player would have to stay in the game even after the game was decided
5. He'd have to get a ton of calls
6. He'd have to be incredibly hot.


With all of that being said, it makes it unlikely that anyone other than Kobe could have everything fall just right to score 81 points.. I mean, who gets the same calls that he gets AND has the same shooting ability? Who will dominate the ball like Kobe regardless of the situation? Plus, the other team would have to be playing some pathetic defense as was Toronto.

So yeah, it's not likely that anyone else will score 81 anytime soon, but Kobe doing it does make it more likely than it was before. Suddenly, Kobe's making it even more 'ok' to be an absolute black hole on offense. Fortunately for teams such as Dallas, San Antonio, and Miami, their stars won't perform in such a manner. But, can't you see a healthy McGrady attempting to go for 81 at some point? What about Iverson? It might take him 60 shots, but he's the type of player that would shoot for it.

Big Boy Laroux
01-24-2006, 03:42 PM
And since we all love Sports Guy! His take (remember, he wrote an article after the mavs game saying it was ridiculous for kobe not to keep scoring against us).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060124


I LOVE the comparison of kobe and Teen Wolf.

mary
01-24-2006, 03:50 PM
Just count me in the "Bill Simmons is a Genius" camp. Love this passage..

For two guys watching history unfold, my father and I weren't exactly high-fiving in the living room or anything. The game made me feel the same way I felt while watching "March of the Penguins." I had always wondered what a penguin's life was like; once I knew how depressing it was, I wanted to sit in my garage with the car running. Sometimes it's almost better not to know these things. And Kobe's 81-point game was a little like that.

Drbio
01-24-2006, 04:21 PM
chummy- that is your perogative to look at the available information and make that conclusion. I think you are wrong, but whatever.....I do apologize for the time it took to respond. I have been dealing with dirno-like dicks all day.

your questions:
Two questions for you:

1) Did you watch Wilt's game? Not live, but I have seen the game, yes.
2) Did you even watch Kobe's game? I saw the last quarter and a replay of all of his successful shots.

Both are amazing individual performances. Talking about efficiency, etc is fun for boards, but records are what they are as well. Wilt=100. Rapist=81. Again, both impressive. Until rapist can score 100 though the record isn't his. Until he has the record in hand, it fails to be the greatest effort ever. I don't care who took more shots, don't really care if the other team fouled Wilt to help him. Wilt scored 100 points. Noone else can say that. His is the greatest scoring game in NBA history.

Drbio
01-24-2006, 04:24 PM
Doc, what is your point exactly? That Kobe's game was only the second greatest scoring performance in the history of the NBA? Ok, so Wilt scored 100 points in a game... He also averaged 50 ppg in a season once.

I hate Kobe every bit as much as you do, but 81 points is simply incredible. And if Kobe being selfish is something that diminishes his performance, than I ask what do you think of Wilt? Was he not selfish?

Also, let me ask you this. If Wilt played in today's NBA, do you think he'd ever score 100 points? Better yet, would he ever score 81 points?


100...no. 81...probably not. And I use Jordan's 69 to base that on. My point is that kobe's effort althoguh impressive is not the greatest ever. That goes to Wilt. All the arguing about efficiency etc is silly until someone breaks Wilt's record. It's like the rediculous crap argument...who would win a game between the 1969 Green bay Packers and the 2005 Patriots. It's all speculative. Bottom line is that a record exists and it belongs to Wilt, not a glorified rapist.

OzMavs
01-24-2006, 04:44 PM
The difference in class between Kobe and Wilt is never so pronounced that when you think that Wilt bedded a supposed 10,000 consentual women, while Kobe has trouble finding at least 2 consentual women on this planet.

aexchange
01-24-2006, 06:09 PM
The difference in class between Kobe and Wilt is never so pronounced that when you think that Wilt bedded a supposed 10,000 consentual women, while Kobe has trouble finding at least 2 consentual women on this planet.

LOL!

alby
01-24-2006, 07:19 PM
John Hollinger: Sorry, but Kobe isn't in Jordan's league. He's never had a single season that approached Jordan's best years, much less a string of them in succession. What he's had are moments -- single games, like last night, where he's looked like the best player on earth. But MJ was far more consistent.

alby
01-24-2006, 07:20 PM
So they just replayed this game tonight out here in San Diego, and I caught most of it from about the 5 minute mark in the 3rd quarter on. It just didn't look to me like I was watching a guy playing the greatest game of all time. I mean, Kobe had some nice plays, some pretty shots, but it didn't move me the way I remember some of the truly great performances (in sports, in general) I've seen moved me. Truly historic performances are ones in which a great player transcends a great moment, and that game, it just wasn't a great moment. Whatever numerical transformations you make on Kobe's boxscore, IMO what he did last night was the equivalent of a first-rate sprinter undercutting a world record in a wind-aided quarter-final heat. It's a testament to his talent, but nothing more.

i had the exact same feeling while watching it the first time and re watching it on nbatv today...

like i said, its an overrated 81

Drbio
01-24-2006, 07:33 PM
John Hollinger: Sorry, but Kobe isn't in Jordan's league. He's never had a single season that approached Jordan's best years, much less a string of them in succession. What he's had are moments -- single games, like last night, where he's looked like the best player on earth. But MJ was far more consistent.


People like chum would have you believe that Hollinger knows all, but in reality his opinion is only one in the discussion. Now it seems like Hollinger has stated Kobe isn't the best.

alby
01-24-2006, 07:34 PM
"Sorry, but Kobe isn't in Jordan's league."

everyone let that soak in.

thank you

alby
01-24-2006, 07:38 PM
even Vince gets it...

"The only bad thing about it is that younger kids, whose minds are easily warped, are going to think, 'Ohhh! I am going to go out there and do it instead of [honoring] the team concept first," Carter told the Newark Star-Ledger. "That is what is missing in the game, guys understanding how to play as a team."

guys who go to college (esp schools like UNC) understand what basketball is all about as opposed to the "wannabe greatest player of all time" losers who come out of highschool like kobe bryant...

Drbio
01-24-2006, 07:44 PM
I have a new found respect for Vince Carter.

dude1394
01-24-2006, 07:50 PM
When players like Mike Bibby can have 42 points, you think that maybe scoring titles might be a little tainted.

And Vince Carter is right.

alby
01-24-2006, 07:54 PM
I forget, did kobe win the scoring title last year?

Stranger
01-24-2006, 08:35 PM
Incidentally, if Kobe continues to score at a 35.9 ppg pace, he would have the 8th highest season scoring average ever, behind only Wilt (several times), MJ, and Elgin Baylor.

Stranger
01-24-2006, 08:38 PM
I forget, did kobe win the scoring title last year?

No, it was Iverson. Assuming he wins it this year, it'll be his first.

rabbitproof
01-24-2006, 10:31 PM
re: Kobe vs Wilt

I agree with Kobe > Wilt. To say 100 trumps 81 automatically is not using perspective.

Just because wages are higher then they were 25 years ago does not mean making a living is easier today.

And especially as a outside player, you'll never see a outside player touch Kobe's 81. Maybe your grandkid's though.

re: Selfishness

Winning is the most important thing. The selfish thing vibes when the Lakers are losing, sub-500 or out of the 8th spot. When this Lakers squad is winning, over 500 and in the playoff hunt - they're overachieving! Kobe's keeping them alive, not being selfish. Maybe he could pass it more but if they're winning when Kobe breaks 35 or 40 - as a LA coach, teammate or fan, I'd want him to shoot it at will. He's single-handedly carrying that franchise to the playoffs.

That said, I hate the Lakers and I hope they sink to the bottom of the conference. I want Kobe to shoot less so they stop winning. Plus, I loath the idea of Kobe winning MVP.

Drbio
01-24-2006, 10:44 PM
To dismiss the record is not using reality.

If kobe gets his 100, I'll give him credit for the best game ever. Until then he settles for second. That is all he is right now (as impressive as that may be).

twelli
01-24-2006, 10:47 PM
[QUOTE=Murphy3]I personally think that others could do this... It'd just have to be a very special night:

1. He'd have to be playing a team that was playing some rather poor defense on that night
2. It'd need to be an up and down game
3. The player would have to be selfish enough to dominate the ball that much
4. The player would have to stay in the game even after the game was decided
5. He'd have to get a ton of calls
6. He'd have to be incredibly hot.
[QUOTE]

hey, I had the same kind of thoughts. let me add two things.

7. It has to be a close game (that's the most unlikely scenario. if a guy scores 30+ in the first half, his team usually leads comfortably, unless he's the only good player among a bunch of losers)
8. the coach has to allow him to make the difficult shots rather than passing to an open teammate (very unlikely in a close game).
9. he has to be in an incredible physical shape the be able to answer all questions the opposing defense has for him

misc.
10. the match is fixed
11. he's using illegal performance enhancers
12. he's from outer space
13. his shoes are corked
14. it's the end of the season, the other team hates Kobe, and the player in question could get the scorer's crown from him by scoring 82... (I'd like Iverson to do this :) )

Drbio
01-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Oh twelli....#14 would be so deliciously sweet. ;)

chumdawg
01-24-2006, 11:14 PM
What...in the fark...is Vince Carter talking about? If Kobe had dropped 81 in LOSING to the Raptors, maybe he has something. But Kobe willed the Lakers to a win that game. And after all, we ARE talking about Vince "Air Canada" Carter. Give me a break.

And I suppose the Great One, Wayne Gretzky, sent the wrong message to a generation of kids who might want to play hockey when they grown up. I suppose Jordan did the same, to young guys like LeBron James. I suppose that Vince Young should have found way to get his teammates involved last year, so that he didn't throw for 3000 and run for 1000 on his own. I suppose that a "team concept" would have been much better suited to winning the Rose Bowl than if Vince hadn't strapped the team on his back and said to USC that they weren't winning that day. I suppose the coaches should have called a handoff on that fourth and goal.

Give me a damn break. How deeply does the Kobe hatred run? You would think that folks could do a better job of hiding their jealousy. Vince Carter couldn't score 81 these days if you gave him two games to do it. And his team would probably lose twice while he failed in trying.

sike
01-24-2006, 11:23 PM
all vince has is sour grapes...

dude1394
01-24-2006, 11:49 PM
How deeply does the Kobe hatred run?

Deep...And at least imo it's not jealousy, I just hate to hear that such a lousy excuse for a human being as well as a lousy excuse for a teammate is filling up my televison screen so that I have to keep changing channels.

Quite honestly I don't like watching iverson play for the exact same reason. I don't even care if he's not a ball-hog (which he is) I'd just rather see a pass to a cutting team-mate and ball movement than watch some guy hoist up 50 shots.

It's doubly bad that it's a rotten human being.

Drbio
01-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Gosh chum...that makes you sound like a showbe apologist or a vince hater. Which is it? And there is noone here who is likely to be jealous of showbe. At least I hope not. There is nothing in a rapist to be jealous of.

dirno2000
01-25-2006, 12:29 AM
I love Vinsanity but what kind of message was he sending when he admittedly quit on the Raptors to get out of Toronto?

That being said, there’s no way I’m missing the next Lakers/Nets game.

alby
01-25-2006, 12:56 AM
sometime in march i think in jersey

Dtownsfinest
01-25-2006, 01:31 AM
[Don't include me in those who think Kobe raped the girl. I think the bitch set him up from the get-go, to extort some money. Just like I think the girl who visited Mike Tyson's hotel room at 3am did the same.



Damn. I thought I was the only who felt this way.

chumdawg
01-25-2006, 01:35 AM
Showbe needs no apologists. And for that matter, Vince needs no haters. Vince was out of line here, no question about it.

The guy scored 81 points, and that's all there is to it. It doesn't mean he's a saint, and it doesn't mean (sorry, Vince) that he's a bad teammate. Great game. That's what it was, no more and no less. Can we please give the guy credit without reading his rap sheet?

Dude was spot on. I'm just sayin'.

Drbio
01-25-2006, 08:48 AM
I love Vinsanity but what kind of message was he sending when he admittedly quit on the Raptors to get out of Toronto?

That being said, there’s no way I’m missing the next Lakers/Nets game.

Fair point about VInce.....and I too will watch that game if available. A network HAS to pick that up right?

ty
01-25-2006, 01:28 PM
alby is a smart man

WayOutWest
01-25-2006, 04:41 PM
The biggest irony, and example of Vinstupidity, is when you compare the average amount of shots he and Kobe attempt over their carreers.

dirno2000
01-25-2006, 07:38 PM
Kobe Bryants 81 points (in a jar, in liquid form)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kobe-Bryants-81-points-in-a-jar-in-liquid-form_W0QQitemZ8756451206QQcategoryZ50135QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Drbio
01-26-2006, 10:29 PM
Will Perdue gets it....when asked if kobe the rapist's effort was th best ever he responded....

"The last time I checked 100 was more than 81."

spreedom
01-26-2006, 10:42 PM
Will Perdue gets it....when asked if kobe the rapist's effort was th best ever he responded....

"The last time I checked 100 was more than 81."

Last time I checked, Wilt scored over half those points after the game was decided, and it took him 18 extra shots to score 19 extra points.. all done selfishly, and not with the intention of helping his team. He STOOD AT HALF COURT when he made the final basket and didn't take a single shot afterwards because he wanted a milestone game, not a win.

dude1394
01-26-2006, 11:22 PM
Well 100 is more than 81.

Drbio
01-26-2006, 11:39 PM
Wilt owns the greatest scoring effort in NBA history. No matter how much whine we hear, no matter how much someone wants to argue, no matter what else is said....nothing changes that indisputable fact.

Big Boy Laroux
01-27-2006, 01:11 PM
kobe's team was up double-digits when he broke 80, right? his last 8 points or so were from free throws. so he scored more points after the game was "decided"

#1MavsFan
01-27-2006, 04:23 PM
He did score more points after the game was decided but about 90% of his points were when the game was close or the Lakers were way behind. Wilt scored a high percentage of his points when the game was long over.

Drbio
02-01-2006, 05:54 PM
Want to hear Kareem's take on the matter????


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was at the old Madison Square Garden in 1960 when Elgin Baylor torched the Knicks for 71 points, and he was present last Sunday to see Kobe Bryant's 81-point showing against the Raptors. "They don't compare," Abdul-Jabbar said of the two games. Instead of praising the current Laker, the Hall of Fame center said he was more impressed with Baylor's outburst. -- New York Post

Big Boy Laroux
02-01-2006, 06:22 PM
i definitely agree with what kiki said in another thread. the raps were HORRIBLE. did they double-team him at least once?

i mean, it's still a great feat to score 81, obviously. but how many double and triple teams did wilt face?

WayOutWest
02-01-2006, 06:51 PM
i definitely agree with what kiki said in another thread. the raps were HORRIBLE. did they double-team him at least once?

i mean, it's still a great feat to score 81, obviously. but how many double and triple teams did wilt face?

Not to mention there was no illegal defense in those days, teams could and would put an extra guy on Wilt even if he didn't have the ball.

Drbio
02-01-2006, 07:12 PM
i definitely agree with what kiki said in another thread. the raps were HORRIBLE. did they double-team him at least once?

i mean, it's still a great feat to score 81, obviously. but how many double and triple teams did wilt face?

I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from the 81 effort, but those who are trying to proclaim it the greatest ever are wrong.


edit--> good point on the defense angle.

MavKikiNYC
02-17-2006, 11:30 PM
Putting the 'I' in the Lakers

http://view.atdmt.com/ORG/view/nwyrkfxs0040000007org/direct/01/
By OSCAR ROBERTSON
Published: February 18, 2006
Cincinnati
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/02/17/opinion/18robertson.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/02/17/opinion/18robertson.html%27,%20%2718robertson%27,%20%27wid th=304,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resiz able=yes%27%29)



TOMORROW'S N.B.A. All-Star Game is a time to take stock of the league, and thus far the "highlight" of the season was Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers scoring 81 points. That certainly created a buzz. Could he someday break 100, and eclipse Wilt Chamberlain's record from 1962? Possibly. But what's the point?

However much he scores, he plays on a team that will have difficulty staying above .500, let alone making the playoffs.

All the attention given to Kobe's feat exemplifies the focus of the N.B.A. today — from the news media, the fans and the players — on individual statistics instead of team success. And there are so many more stats than ever before. Not just scoring, but turnovers-to-assists ratio. Steals and blocked shots. Most technical fouls. And the most important statistic of all: who sells the most jerseys.

As far as I'm concerned, the only stat that counts is the win column. To be on top in that category, you have to play team basketball. You can't have just one or two players taking all the shots. When you get into the playoffs, you're going to need everyone to score.

The Lakers have already been through this once, when they first had Shaquille O'Neal playing alongside Kobe. When they needed other players to step up, they ran into difficulty. Now Kobe is being asked to carry the load by himself.
Kobe is certainly one of the two or three most talented players in the game today. He works hard, he keeps getting better, and he wants to win. But he's in a no-win situation. The rest of his team is not all that talented. So he gets knocked if he tries to win by scoring more, and he gets knocked if he tries to involve the other players. And no one is going to trade a player to the Lakers who will help them significantly. Shaq isn't coming back, and there aren't any Kareems available these days. But Kobe plays in a show biz town, and as long as his individual exploits put fans in the seats, that seems to be O.K. for the moment.

Even with its present roster, however, I think his team could give him more support, and maybe even steal a few wins along the way. They could step up their effort on defense. They could force their opponents into more of a transition game. They could take advantage of the defensive attention Kobe draws and run more weak-side plays, double-screens and reverses to open up easy shots for other players.

I have to laugh when I read that the defenses are so much tougher today, with so many different sets, including the zone, and that's why scoring is down again, and that's why Kobe's achievement is even greater than Wilt's. Scoring is down because most offenses today make it easy on the defense. There's very little ball movement, or moving without the ball. The mid-range game has all but disappeared. It's either force the ball inside and see what happens, or kick it back out for a three-pointer.
My philosophy was always to make the weakest link stronger, and create scoring opportunities for everyone. When you're asking guys to battle for rebounds and play tough defense, you have to involve them in the offense as well.

This philosophy worked in Milwaukee with a speedy forward named Greg Smith, who learned that I would find him if he got out in front on the fast break. It worked in Cincinnati with our center, Wayne Embry, whose limited game under the basket put him at a serious disadvantage against players like Bill Russell and Wilt. But once Wayne saw that he'd be open for mid-range jumpers when I drove to the hoop, he worked hard to develop an outside shot and considerably increased his scoring average. It's important to build each player's confidence, and it's also how you build a team as the season progresses, so everyone is ready at playoff time.

Last season, that sort of team basketball seemed to be making a comeback. The Pistons, lightly regarded, had knocked off the Lakers in the previous season's finals with aggressive team defense and a balanced, fast-moving offense. As a result, we were told that other teams were going to step up the tempo, play better defense, and emphasize team play.

But this season we're back to business as usual. Yes, a few general managers and coaches know how to build cohesive teams by acquiring, motivating and retaining unselfish players who have talent and commitment. They also recognize that a strong bench is critical. These are the teams you generally find atop the standings: Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix (the jury is still out on Miami, New Jersey and the Los Angeles Clippers). Others are trying to instill a team approach, and have success on occasion (Cleveland, with LeBron James, is still a bench away from moving into the top rank). The rest, including some division leaders, are pretty much interchangeable, most hovering a few games above or below .500.

Building a successful, sustainable team is not easy. Part of the challenge is that many moderately skilled players really believe they are stars, and that the franchise revolves around them. But few players, including some of these "stars," seem dedicated to the continuous improvement of their games, or to helping their teams improve. Few players seem willing to be role players, to make a contribution off the bench, or actually to earn more playing time. They take their money and go home.

So here's what today's game looks like: The ball goes inbounds, whoever gets it tries to make something happen on his own, and everybody else stands and watches. More often than not, the player with the ball looks for the three-point shot. And nobody guards him! Why wouldn't you try to stop someone from scoring three points? Even if it's a low-percentage shot, make it an even lower-percentage shot. Or is that too much like work?

I know, you've heard a lot of this from us old-school players. And you'll continue to hear it. I, for one, care too much about the game to settle for the highlight reel that N.B.A. basketball has become today. I believe Kobe does as well.

Oscar Robertson, a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame and 12-time N.B.A. All-Star, is the author of "The Art of Basketball."

MavKikiNYC
02-17-2006, 11:36 PM
February 18, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
A One-Man Gang

By KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR
Los Angeles

COMPARING Kobe Bryant's 81-point game last month to Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game is like comparing an orange to an avocado. Physically, Wilt was a totally different player from Kobe, and he had a whole different skill set. As a center, Wilt was suited to playing right around the basket, while Kobe has systematically perfected just about any offensive designation you can name. Passing the ball, shooting threes, driving to the hoop, pulling up for mid-range jumpers ... he does it all, and he does it all very well. His versatility sets him apart from the rest of the league.

I think Kobe's Jan. 22 performance was more impressive than Wilt's 100-point night in 1962 because of the variety of ways he scored. He made 7 of 13 three-pointers, he was 18 of 20 from the free throw line, he drove the basket and he hit a number of mid-range jumpers. He did it all. What Wilt did was awesome, but he did it with a more limited arsenal.

The word "selfish" often comes up when people describe Kobe as a player. I disagree. Right now, given their roster, the Lakers benefit from as much offense as Kobe can produce. This was also the case with Wilt before he finally joined a talented Lakers team. In certain cases, a team wants a superstar to do whatever he can in the hope that the rest of the team can complement him and escape with a win. Kobe doesn't want to shoot the ball every time he comes down the court. His three championship rings came about when he played with Shaquille O'Neal, who was an offensive cog in that machine. Obviously, they were able to play together pretty effectively.

While I feel Kobe's accomplishment was more staggering than Wilt's, my opinion has nothing to do with Wilt's height advantage in his era. Sure, Wilt was physically superior to everyone on the court, but that was just one mark of his dominance. It's been like that with Shaquille O'Neal his whole career, and I don't see people playing down his achievements.

I also don't put much stock in the conspiracy theory that Wilt's teammates plotted to get the big man 100. Growing up in New York and going to Madison Square Garden regularly, I used to watch those early 60's Knicks teams that Wilt scored his 100 against quite a bit. They were terrible teams and played no defense. Wilt's Philadelphia Warriors teammates were no slouches, but it made sense to have the offense go through Wilt every trip down court — they needed as much scoring from him as they could get.

I think one of the most impressive aspects of Kobe's performance was that he did it in an era when millions of people worldwide either watched the game or saw the highlights. When Wilt hit the century mark, it was in Hershey, Pa., and only 4,000 or so fans saw the game. It was on the radio, but most people found out about it the next day reading the newspaper. That Kobe's feat was done with the world watching and under intense news-media scrutiny means that it will most likely resonate more than Wilt's game ever did.

As incredible as Kobe's night was, and as dominant as he's been all season long, this brand of basketball can't continue with winning results. Kobe's got one heck of a motor, but eventually exhaustion's going to set in. If I were Lakers Coach Phil Jackson, I would tell Kobe, "We're going to get you some help." Obviously, Kobe's going to be a target wherever he goes. Opponents are going to be double-teaming, maybe even triple-teaming him. His teammates are going to have to step up, or the Lakers need to look for outside help.

I don't think an individual-based team can ever win a championship in today's N.B.A. Michael Jordan was able to do many of the things that Kobe does, but things didn't turn around for the Chicago Bulls until Scottie Pippen's game started to develop and guys like Horace Grant, B. J. Armstrong and John Paxson came into their own. They established a high defensive standard and the offensive balance they needed to win.

Kobe's 81-point game should without a doubt stand alongside Wilt's 100 as one of the greatest individual feats in league history, and who's to say he won't one day break Wilt's 44-year old record? The world will be watching and waiting.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame and a 19-time All-Star, is the author, most recently, of "Brothers in Arms: The Epic Story of the 761st Tank Battalion, World War II's Forgotten Heroes." He is a special assistant for the Los Angeles Lakers, for whom Mr. Bryant plays, and upon whom Mr. Abdul-Jabbar is dependent for a pay check.

dirno2000
02-17-2006, 11:41 PM
Oscar Robertson is the posterboy for good old day syndrome.

"I have to laugh when I read that the defenses are so much tougher today"

Today's defenses are so much more complex that it's not even a fair comparison. He could have sold me this bill of goods a few years back but thanks to NBA TV's hardwood classics I've seen him in action. I've seen him go entire games without being doubled.

Murphy3
02-17-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm curious as to whether or not Kobe has ever attempted to rape Oscar Robertson or Lou Alcindor..

alby
02-18-2006, 01:58 AM
That's weird because Oscar and Kobe actually spend alot of time together, and Kobe always states that Oscar Robertson is the person he goes to for advice and who he has learned the game from the most.