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View Full Version : Artest is one of the two best players in the NBA... according to himself.


Thespiralgoeson
03-18-2006, 04:21 AM
Ron Artest, asked on Fox Sports Net's CMI: The Chris Myers Interview, to name the best player in the NBA:

"I think I'm in the top two. Pick whomever else you want. But I think I'm in that category."

On being with the Sacramento Kings:

"It is not necessarily 'happy to be out of Indiana,' but I am happy to be in Sacramento if that makes any sense. I had a lot of good times in Indiana, but I'm definitely happy. It's one of my best moments being an NBA player, being in Sacramento...Mike Bibby has been nothing but a friend and all the guys are the same way. It's been a joy being around the Sacramento Kings."

On being suspended:

"It wasn't fair at all. You look back at the days Larry Bird used to fight Charles Barkley. The NBA was built on that and guys still talk about that on TNT...it still wasn't like I started trouble. It was like somebody started trouble with me, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't like I went into the stands because someone was talking to me. Someone threw something at me so I was pissed off."

Dtownsfinest
03-18-2006, 04:50 AM
Well to his credit there aren't too many better overall players than him in the NBA. Not too many that can play both sides of the ball exceptionally well like Artest can but the two best in the NBA?

dude1394
03-18-2006, 05:34 AM
It begins.

twelli
03-18-2006, 05:55 AM
Some people should be banned from talking...

chumdawg
03-18-2006, 11:37 AM
Have to admire the guy's confidence. I'm pretty sure he'll never be intimidated by any person or any situation.

jthig32
03-18-2006, 11:40 AM
Certainly top two is extreme, but he IS one of the best two way players in the game. How many people on this board claimed that no one person could join the Kings and improve their defense to the point of being competitive? He's an amazing defensive presence.

Arne
03-18-2006, 11:59 AM
He's for me the best two-way player.

orangedays
03-18-2006, 03:00 PM
It begins.

Exactly what I though. Maybe Artest (or something Artest does) will be the final straw that takes the Maloofs to Las Vegas?

*edit: spiral & Arne, you guys should write a note to Hollinger and/or Simmons, who seem to believe...for reasons unknown to me...that Dwayne Wade is the best two-way player in the league.

rakesh.s
03-18-2006, 03:18 PM
It's hard to argue with him right now..the kings were headed for the lottery and now they look like they could go deep in the playoffs and scare a top seed or two along the way.

Murphy3
03-18-2006, 04:09 PM
He's in the top 15-20 players in the league...

spreedom
03-18-2006, 05:58 PM
Well, I'd say that Kobe is the best player in the league for sure.. Artest is a phenominal defender, but top 2? Damn, that's ballsy of him to say. Gotta love that kind of confidence, especially with the on-court results.

Dtownsfinest
03-18-2006, 07:39 PM
Have to admire the guy's confidence. I'm pretty sure he'll never be intimidated by any person or any situation.


Its the type of guy you want to be your best defender on your team. That's the type of attitude you want your superstar to have IMO.

babbler
03-18-2006, 08:04 PM
If you were to rebuild a whole team. Would you want Artest over any other player in the league? It would be a close call based on his basketball abilities. i would definately want Artest over Kobe. Artest makes the guys around him much better players.

dude1394
03-18-2006, 10:08 PM
that's what indiana said. Let him stay at a team for more than 20 games before you peg your franchise on him.

Thespiralgoeson
03-18-2006, 10:14 PM
If you were to rebuild a whole team. Would you want Artest over any other player in the league? It would be a close call based on his basketball abilities. i would definately want Artest over Kobe.

I wouldn't. Guys I would take over Artes if I were starting a team;

Kobe
Iverson
LeBron
Dirk
Wade
Yao
T-Mac (maybe not now with the back problems)
Duncan

And that's actually very complimentary to Artest because it still has him in the top 10, which he definitely is right now IMO. But then there's also those young guys with massive potential that I would also consider taking over Artest to build a team around. Guys like Bosh and Dwight Howard.

dude1394
03-18-2006, 10:20 PM
I wouldn't. Guys I would take over Artes if I were starting a team;

Kobe
Iverson
LeBron
Dirk
Wade
Yao
T-Mac (maybe not now with the back problems)
Duncan

Oh I can see more as well....

Bosh, Dwight Howard, any number of younger players. Why take such a change on him.

bernardos70
03-19-2006, 01:47 AM
The problem with starting a franchise revolving around this time bomb is that he's just that, a time bomb. He goes off, there goes the team. And IMO, it's not a matter of if but rather of when.

Thespiralgoeson
03-19-2006, 04:19 AM
Nobody's questioning that, Bernardos. We all know he's a nutcase, and a huge risk. We're merely talking about his actual talent and skills. He's claiming to be one of the two best players in the NBA. I wouldn't put him that high, but I'd definitely have him in the top 15.

OzMavs
03-19-2006, 05:20 AM
The problem with starting a franchise revolving around this time bomb is that he's just that, a time bomb. He goes off, there goes the team. And IMO, it's not a matter of if but rather of when.

Exactly. There is a lot more to being a top NBA player than Ron Artest will ever display.

chumdawg
03-19-2006, 05:30 AM
Ron-ron is easy in the top ten, and pressing the top five.

My guess is that anyone who ever had the bad luck to play against him would tell you just how high the guy should rank.

TXSportsFan4
03-19-2006, 10:07 AM
Nobody's questioning that, Bernardos. We all know he's a nutcase, and a huge risk. We're merely talking about his actual talent and skills. He's claiming to be one of the two best players in the NBA. I wouldn't put him that high, but I'd definitely have him in the top 15.
I definitly think he may be one of the best defenders in the league without question, but I can't say he is one of the best all around players. But I agree I'd have him in the top 15.

Five-ofan
03-19-2006, 10:12 AM
He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.

rakesh.s
03-19-2006, 01:50 PM
call me crazy, but on that list, if you look at guys that actually make their teammates better and impact both ends of the floor, I'd have to say that Artest is better than -

arenas
carter
pierce
tmac
jo - the most overrated player in the NBA. He's the Baron Davis of power forwards.
iverson
brand

dude1394
03-19-2006, 03:52 PM
He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.


Agree plenty and I still put some of the younger guys on that list.

Five-ofan
03-19-2006, 08:36 PM
I would also rather have bosh D12 and Yao off the top of my head but i meant as an argument for right now. Jo and artest were on the same team for years and jo was the best player on that team. I to think he is overrated but he is better than artest

rakesh.s
03-19-2006, 08:51 PM
I would also rather have bosh D12 and Yao off the top of my head but i meant as an argument for right now. Jo and artest were on the same team for years and jo was the best player on that team. I to think he is overrated but he is better than artest

he's due back for the playoffs, so let's see what he can do -- jermaine that is

Over the last few years, he has been injury prone and a puss (shut down by k-mart after he yapped about how the nets couldn't guard him...in the playoffs)

artest is a nut, but he has transformed sacramento's mentality...guys that couldn't spell defense are now playing hard tough nosed D.

Five-ofan
03-19-2006, 08:56 PM
The kings d has as much to do with not playing sar and brad miller together as anything.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 04:26 AM
The kings d has as much to do with not playing sar and brad miller together as anything.

So true it hurts.

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 09:15 AM
btw i just glanced over your list and saw that you had brand and iverson on it. I can see conceivable though imo wrong arguments for artest being better than the other guys but there is no way in hell he is better than iverson or brand.

jthig32
03-20-2006, 09:45 AM
He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.

I take Artest over Iverson, JO, Tmac and Arenas, and Carter (who shouldn't even be on that list) and I don't even THINK about it. You listed all offensive guys, most of whom are defensive sieves, which is typical when people talk about the best players in the NBA.

The proof is in the pudding. You can argue why the Kings D is better all you want, but their turning point directly coincides with the trade. Artest's mere presence made them tougher and more defensive.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 09:51 AM
If Artest is better than T-Mac, it's only because T-Mac's back has gone bad. A healthy McGrady is on a completely different level than Artest. Artest is a phenominal defender, maybe the best, and more than decent offensively. But McGrady is one of those very, very few players in the NBA who can completely take over a game offensively, and single-handedly win a game and do it on a regular basis. Players like that are very rare, they are true franchise players; superstars. I'll take any one of those guys over a guy like Artest anyday. McGrady is one of them, Kobe is one of them, so is LeBron, Iverson, Dirk, Wade, and to a lesser extent guys like Pierce, Arenas and Carmelo. I'd put Artest in Basically the same category as Garnett, Brand, Marion; they're all the versitile do-it-all kind of guys, but you just can't count on them to take over a game offensively.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that McGrady is by no means whatsovever a "defensive sieve." He's an excellent defender, and I have no idea why people don't seem to recognize that.

Iverson is no pushover defensively either, which is amazing considering how small he is. Just look at Iverson's career compared to Artest. Iverson singlehandedly took his team to the finals. I seriously doubt Artest could ever do something half as incredible if he played with the group of scrubs that Iverson's played with his whole career.

As for Arenas and Carter... Well personally I think both of them are extremely overrated. I'd probably take Artest at this point, but it's a tough choice.

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 10:06 AM
Iverson isnt horrible defensively. He isnt the defender his steals numbers make him look like but he is above average which when coupled with his O makes him better than artest. Plus he is THE toughest player in the nba. I used to dislike him alot but watching him play and all the contact he takes in that tiny body are just amazing. Looking at spiral's post i agree. A person who is a truly dominant scorer is worth more than a guy who is slightly above average on O and great on D.

BTW the argument of "they sucked defensively before he got there and they didnt afterwards so he must be the reason for the improvement" is one of the basic fallacies. Just because an event happens after another event does not mean that the two are related. Though in this case, yes artest is a source of improvement for their d BUT he isnt the sole or even the main cause of it. SAR and brad miller not playing together is the main cause of it. Since we are mavs fans i will relate it to the mavs. Say the mavs still had jamison and they played a front line of KVH(peja) Jamison(SAR) and Dirk(Miller) together. They would be utterly horrible defensively. Now suppose they put in Josh howard for KVH and Damp for jamison. They would improve exponentially defensively. Now if the mavs could only make one of those changes which helps more defensively? Damp. Bringing in a big that will play like a big and most importantly rebound improves your d more than bringing in a small. Now Dirk is a much better defender than brad miller and artest is a much better defender than jho and these arent perfect comparisons obviously but I am trying to show it in a light mavs fan will understand because it relates to the mavs.

Arne
03-20-2006, 10:17 AM
Artest=the best defender in the league.

Sacramento was one of the worst defensive teams. And Abdur-Rahim and Miller not in the line up at the same time is certainly not the main reason why they are better now. It's Artest. Artest, Artest, Artest.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 10:24 AM
Artest=the best defender in the league.

Sacramento was one of the worst defensive teams. And Abdur-Rahim and Miller not in the line up at the same time is certainly not the main reason why they are better now. It's Artest. Artest, Artest, Artest.

Artest is the main reason for their improvement, yes, but SAR and Miller being in the starting lineup was a recipe for disaster, and I knew it. While all the moronic sports writers around the country were telling us that the Kings were back in the hunt because they signed SAR, and I knew that Sacramento was going to suck this year, for that exact reason. SAR being taken out of the starting lineup might not be the "main" reason for their improvement, but it's definitely a big one.

Also, I think the mere psycholigical impact of Artest's presense has been at least as valuble to them as his tough defense. The Kings were dead in the water, and the fans knew it. When they brought in Artest it was a breath of fresh air, a ray of hope. It gave the team and the fans a huge boost in morale and they responded accordingly.

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 10:27 AM
Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest. Tmac if he wants to is better as well. Though it is very rare now even before the injury. If you watch them play you would realize that not playing SAR and Miller together is a big reason they dont suck defensively anymore. That said artest has had a HUGE impact on the kings but its almost like nash with the suns. Yes they sucked before he got there but anyone with half a brain could see that the right player could be a spark to set them off because they still had pieces that could work. I admit i didnt think artest was the right guy to set them off but he was/is so props to him for that but dont act like this makes him a top 10 let alone top 5 player.

spreedom
03-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest.

I think AK47 is about even, and I could see a case for Marion.... but Gerald Wallace? Who has he EVER shut down, as opposed to Artest mathematically impacting the game in very profound ways... I don't see what you see, I guess.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest.

I'm afraid I have to disagree there. Marion's a phenominal defender, but I do think Artest has the edge. AK's a great defender as well, but I think there's quite a gap between the two because Artest can guard pretty much every position but center. AK47 can guard the 4 as well as anybody, but he can't stay with the quicker 3's (which is why he can't really guard Dirk as well) and he definitely can't guard the 1 or 2. And when you say G Wallace, did you mean B Wallace? Because if you're telling me that Gerald Wallace is a better defender than Ron Artest, I'm afraid you're crazy. Either way, I still think Artest is a better defensive player than Ben Wallace as well, not to mention that he's light years ahead of Big Ben on the other end of the ball.

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 10:43 AM
For G wallace I will admit to doing something I almost never do, using individual defensive stats because honestly i dont watch a whole lot of their games and i know they can be misleading but for a guy to lead the league in steals and be top 10 i believe in blocks, he has to be pretty damn good. Marion is better at defending bigger players than artest which is strange because artest is thicker but if you want one of them to defend a 4 id MUCH prefer it to be marion. Ak is the best help defender in the league. He is also the awesome individually defensively against 4s and most 3s. Though you are correct he can have trouble guarding the really quick 3s(who are actually 2s) They all have their strengths but for Marion and AK i definitely think they are better and for Gerald wallace i did go by stats so it could be completely wrong but he seems to play well defensively when they play the mavs which is about all i see of them because like i said they are not one of the teams i watch normally.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 10:46 AM
Will you at least concede that Artest is the best wing defender in the league?

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 10:56 AM
Honestly after thinking about it i would admit that he is probably the best overall defender in the nba in that he impacts the game with his d more than anyone else does. I was thinking and I dont really think the 3 previously mentioned guys are better than he is so much as they are on the same level though i will now watch some charlotte games just to see if Wallace is as good as his numbers make him look. I mean can you really average 2.5 steals and over 2 blocks and not be a good defender? I think the best defender debate is kind of like the best player debate right now. There is a little group of guys that can all make legit arguments for it.

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 10:58 AM
BTW while i was mentioning wing defenders i cant believe i didnt think of bowen. Again not necesarrily better than artest but he is also on that same level.

Thespiralgoeson
03-20-2006, 11:06 AM
BTW while i was mentioning wing defenders i cant believe i didnt think of bowen. Again not necesarrily better than artest but he is also on that same level.

True, Bowen certainly does have an edge on Artest in terms of what he can get away with when guarding his man. I mean, do you think Artest could drop-kick a player in the face without getting a major fine and suspension?

Five-ofan
03-20-2006, 11:19 AM
hehe. No. I love that clip. Other than the Vince dunk over weis in the olympics that could possibly be my favorite basketball clip ever.

orangedays
03-20-2006, 12:42 PM
For those of you who don't know, Bruce Bowen drop-kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face. Worthy of Chuck Norris.

You can view the clip of it here (http://brucebowen.ytmnd.com/).

orangedays
03-24-2006, 05:33 PM
Ron Artest: "I don't know if I'm built for America"
by Nebojsa Petrovacki / March 24, 2006

Why are the Kings playing so much better with you on the team?

Ron Artest: I mean, itís just me, you know. It was just a matter of time for it to happen. We need to play hard. Hard every nightÖ

What do you bring to the team Ė defensive prowess or something else?

RA: We work well together, itís not just me. The point is playing hard, and doing it every single night.

How did you fit in the whole Kingsí run-and-gun style of basketball which was evident before you joined the team?

RA: It was pretty easy, you know. Itís just basketball, and if you play like a team, everything will work for everybody.

You played Kobe in the Staples Center. Is he the hardest defensive assignment in the league?

RA: He is one of them. If heís not hard, I donít know who is.

Who are the others?

RA: (pauses) KobeÖ Mm-hmÖ KobeÖ Heís a great player. Heís, you know, unstoppable.

Would you let anyone score 81 points on you?

RA: Iím hoping not (laughs). But, if it happens, you have to forget about it.

What makes him such a tough player to defend Ė his quickness, his range or something else?

RA: He does everything. I mean, he plays both ways, his range, his quickness, his post-up, shot, everything.

There were a lot of rumors that you might not fit too good in a small market town such as Sacramento. How did you fit in there?

RA: That was just people talking, that wasnít true. It was just people talking.

How do you feel in the city? Do you frequent Vlade Divacís club Tunnel 21, or his restaurant LíImage?

RA: I donít go too much about the city. Itís definitely one of the better cities out there, because the view is so beautiful. Every day you get to have a beautiful view if you go and drive out on the highway. I love it.

Can you imagine yourself playing in Sacramento even after your option to leave in 2008?

RA: My mind is open, you know. There are so many of these young players coming in try to get our jobs and they deserve it. But, Iím openÖ

Whoís going to win the championship first, Kings or Pacers?

RA: Kings.

Why?

RA: Thatís just how itís gonna be.

Who got the better side of the deal when Kings traded Peja for yourself?

RA: Kings, definitely. Youíre asking me a question, and you already know what the answer is going to be (laughs). Iím always going with myself first and then everybody else.

There was a lot of talk about this guy or that guy not making Team USA, but nobody mentioned you, even though you are a de facto best defensive player in the NBA. Are you surprised about it?

RA: Thatís how itís set up. Thatís how the community and the media set it up, so that they wouldnít mention my name. And, by the time I was supposed to get to play, it was too late. They already picked the team. They didnít want me on that team, so it was OK.

Why do you think they didnít want you?

RA: Why? ĎCause Iím that type of guy, you know. They want classy people, and Iím not classy. You know what Iím saying? Iím not classy. They want people who are built for America, you know. I donít know if Iím built for America.

You are described as this ogre, this monster, and, in fact, you are one of the nicest guys to talk to in this league. What do you say to that?

RA: Itís alright, I mean. Life is life, itís OK. Iím not worried about anything other people say.

Donít you feel that itís a little bit unjust?

RA: No, itís not unjust. Itís how people are, itís how people think, you know. Some people think how they think, and I think how I think. I do what I do and itís OK.

How are the things with your label Tru Warier these days?

RA: Right now, Iím just working on my project right now. I write my own stuff. Itís actually coming together right now. Itís going to be out pretty soon, probably like July 1.

How do you compare these two activities of yours Ė basketball and music?

RA: Music is a different art, it uses more of your mind, even though in basketball, you also need to use your mind to succeed. Itís just that in music you need to use your mind a little bit more.

Nebojsa Petrovacki is the editor of Sportska Centrala, a sports news agency from Serbia-Montenegro

Artest is the best!
03-24-2006, 06:41 PM
He's for me the best two-way player.
thats probably what he meant.

kriD
04-04-2006, 06:04 AM
Missing person

By DWAIN PRICE
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

DALLAS -- If anyone knows Sacramento Kings forward Ron Artest, it's Fran Fraschilla.

Fraschilla recruited Artest out of La Salle Academy in New York and was his college coach during Artest's freshman year at St. John's University. In a nutshell, Fraschilla has seen more of Artest's temper tantrums than he cares to remember.

However, there's one quality about Artest that Fraschilla will always defend.

"Anybody who says he's a bad guy off the court is totally mischaracterizing him," Fraschilla said. "He's really a good guy.

"He gets in trouble because of his temper. The weird part about it is he would not be the same player without this competitive streak."

Artest's game -- and his competitive streak -- will be on display at American Airlines Center at 7:30 tonight when the Kings (38-36) face the Mavericks (55-19).

Artest has revitalized the Kings since they acquired him from the Indiana Pacers on Jan. 25 for Peja Stojakovic. The Kings were 18-24 and going nowhere before Artest's arrival and are 20-12 since and in the Western Conference's eighth playoff spot.

Fraschilla never doubted Artest would be an NBA standout, but he did wonder whether Artest, now in his seventh season, could get a handle on his emotions.

"The problem with Ronnie is he plays on the edge, which means he sometimes goes over the edge," said Fraschilla, an ESPN college basketball analyst who lives in the Dallas area. "But when he channels that energy, he's probably one of the five, six or seven best players in the league.

"Ronnie's a freak of nature athletically and strength-wise. To be that big (6-7, 260) and that strong, the only guy that comes to mind is John Mackey, who was a tight end with the Baltimore Colts when I was growing up."

Fraschilla says away from basketball, Artest is different.

"He's the type of guy that when he was in Indianapolis, I know for a fact that he would get out of the car after a ballgame, in 20-degree weather, and hand a homeless guy a $100 bill and get back in the car and drive away."

Artest created a national stir when he was in the center of a Nov. 19, 2004, brawl between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons that spilled into the stands. After a fan tossed a cup filled with liquid at him, Artest charged into the stands, leading to an altercation with fans.

The NBA subsequently suspended Artest without pay for the remaining 73 games of the 2004-05 season and the playoffs. Then, 16 games after returning to the Pacers this season, Pacers president Larry Bird said he felt betrayed when Artest demanded to be traded.

So far, though, it seems the Kings have been the big winners of the Ron Artest Sweepstakes.

"If he can keep it on the court, you're essentially getting a guy that's definitely one of the best defenders in the league," said Kings center Brad Miller, who also played with Artest in Chicago and Indiana.

During his 32-game stint with the Kings, Artest is averaging 17.4 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.1 assists and 2.1 steals in 40.4 minutes.

"I'm doing the same thing that I did [with the Pacers] over here, but it's just a little bit better for me," Artest said. "I was blessed to get a good situation, because it could've easily gone against me.

"I could've been somewhere where I wasn't happy. This is the first time in a long time that I've been complimented for leadership skills."

Elton Brand and Artest played youth AAU basketball together for four years for Riverside Church in New York. They also were Chicago Bulls teammates from 1999 until Artest was traded to the Pacers on Feb. 19, 2002.

"His personality hasn't changed that much at all," said Brand, who now plays for the Los Angeles Clippers. "I think the things he does or has done are misconstrued. It's all about him wanting to win."

Brand was almost Artest's teammate again. A deal for the Clippers to acquire Artest from the Pacers for Corey Maggette was squashed when Maggette failed a physical.

"We needed that cat," Clippers point guard Sam Cassell said. "He's a beast."

Three games after Artest's arrival in Sacramento, the Kings defeated the Denver Nuggets 98-91. Before the game, Artest told Nuggets coach George Karl that the Kings would regroup and qualify for the playoffs, even though they were 18-26 at the time.

"I thought they were a little too far out [of the playoffs], so I must say I'm a little surprised," Karl said Sunday while the Nuggets were in Dallas to face the Mavericks.

It's that kind of impact that had numerous teams, including the Mavs, inquiring about Artest before he was traded to the Kings.

"I think everybody knows we were very interested in Ron and we, as an organization, have a tremendous respect for him," Karl said. "He has defensive toughness and focus. It seems like [the Kings now play] with more purpose at the defensive end of the court, and they have a stopper.

"Offensively, he's a little bit behind. But defensively he's still the man, and he's still one of the top five defenders in basketball."

And it's because of that ability that Artest will likely draw the assignment tonight of guarding Dirk Nowitzki, who scored 30 points in Sunday's 103-79 win over the Nuggets.

"He's going to be in Dirk's face 24-7," Mavs forward Josh Howard said. "So we've just got to be out there ready to help him."


IN THE KNOW

Artest at a glance

Some highlights and lowlights of Ron Artest's career:

the Good stuff

Averaged 13.1 points and 6.3 rebounds per game in two seasons at St. John's.

At age 19, chosen in the first round (No. 16 overall) of 1999 NBA Draft by the Chicago Bulls.

Selected to the All-Rookie second team after averaging 12 ppg and 4.3 rpg in the 1999-2000 season.

League leader with 3.29 steals per game for every 48 minutes played in the 2002-03 season.

Runner-up for the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year award in 2002-03.

NBA's Defensive Player of the Year for the 2003-04 season.

Named an NBA Eastern Conference All-Star in 2004.

are you kidding?

Before his rookie season he applied for a job at Circuit City to get an employee discount.

Once attended a Bulls practice wearing a bathrobe over his practice uniform.

Broke two of Michael Jordan's ribs in a pickup game in June 2001.

Traded by the Bulls to the Indiana Pacers on Feb. 19, 2002.

Suspended three games by the NBA and fined $35,000 in 2003 for destroying video equipment at Madison Square Garden.

Suspended by the NBA for four games in 2003 for a confrontation with Miami Heat coach Pat Riley.

Suspended for two games early in the 2004-05 season by the Pacers. He had reportedly asked coach Rick Carlisle if he could take a month off because he was tired from promoting an album on his production label.

Key figure in a Nov. 19, 2004, brawl that spilled into the stands at The Palace of Auburn Hills.

Suspended by the NBA on Nov. 21, 2004, for the remainder of the season (73 games and the playoffs) for his part in the brawl. Lost $4,995,000 in salary.

Last December, after playing 16 games, he was fined $10,000 and placed on the Pacers' inactive list after requesting to be traded.

Traded by the Pacers to the Sacramento Kings on Jan. 25.

orangedays
04-04-2006, 09:35 AM
Hm. For me, simply having a bad temper does not justify the things that Ron has done. Plenty of people are highly competitive - Kobe, Garnett. You leave that competitiveness on the court, and you most certainly do not take it into the stands regardless of what happens.

You just don't throw TVs or start riots. You sit tight - realize it's just a game - and let it slide. Doesn't matter if you're a professional athlete or a high school athlete. I'm sure Artest is a nice guy - but he needs to learn self-control

Arne
04-04-2006, 09:50 AM
I for one think that Artest's suspension was an overreaction by the league. These idiotic Detroit fans should have been punished one after another.

Stephen Jackson literally beat soeone down and didn't get nearly the suspension Artest got. They all should've gotten a break for 30 games, but Artest out for the regular season and the playoffs was just too much.

I'm not saying it was the right thing for him to do, but I could understand it in some way. He ran into the stands and even asked the guy if it was him who threw the beer. - The TV-team that televised the game even said how rude these fans were and how Detroit should get punished for that incident. It was only afterwards that ESPN and the rest of the league's slaves started to blame Artest for it all, because they knew they'd have to find one bad guy to put all the blame on, otherwise the league-image would suffer.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 10:00 AM
I don't remember Artest gingerly walking up in the stands and asking the guy if he threw a beer, then casually patting the gentleman on the arm. I seem to remember him lying on his back, a beer hitting him, then ARtest, like a drunken fan, running, RUNNING, into the stands wildly going after a guy who didn't even throw the beer and punching him. He shoulld have been kciked out of the league. Stephen Jackson also should have been suspended for the rest of the year.
If you look at the replay of the incident, if the man actually threw the beer, there would be no beer in the cup to get ARtest wet because of the distance the cup would have traveled. The man was just laughing unctrolably at the WOMAN that was behind him who threw the beer. Go back and look at it again. The man was attacked for basically laughing at Artest. He will never be cut any slack on my part for the actions he took that night in Detroit.

mcsluggo
04-04-2006, 10:22 AM
no.

What the guy who Jackson beat up (who was right next to artest during the confrontation, and then got beat up because he threw ANOTHER beer) testified was that Artest stormed into the stands, grabbed the guy he thought had thrown the beer (the wrong guy, btw) and held him with his fist cocked and said "did you throw it?" over and over again, but never actualy hit him or anything. (and then after a few moments of this he, of course, threw his own beer on Artest and Jackson, and got stomped. Brilliant)

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 10:56 AM
The original beer that started it all was thrown by the woman that was just a little behind the scorers table. When Artest jumps up, you can see her arm extended, and she has this, Holy shit look on her face, like OMFG he is coming into the stands.

orangedays
04-04-2006, 11:29 AM
The video can be viewed here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6534820/).

EDIT: Fixed the link.

There's some analysis, etc. available.

In the video you can see the cup hitting Artest...him going into the stands...the infamous O'Neal punch...

Watching it again...just shocking.

Just211
04-04-2006, 11:55 AM
I don't think he's the best 2 way player, because his offense is crap. Do you remember 2 years ago when he personally took the Pacers out of the playoffs. Because he started trying to play offense.
To me the only 2 way player in the league is probably Kobe. Everyone is weak on one end. I mean as far as being top 5-10 on both sides of the ball. With Wade And Bron being close, but they haven't proven it on the defensive side yet.
Hell I'd say The #2 on both sides is Marion. So there you go
Artest is not in the top 2.

orangedays
04-04-2006, 12:10 PM
What's your take on KG & TD?

jthig32
04-04-2006, 12:39 PM
The original beer that started it all was thrown by the woman that was just a little behind the scorers table. When Artest jumps up, you can see her arm extended, and she has this, Holy shit look on her face, like OMFG he is coming into the stands.

This is true, but Artest did NOT punch that guy that he went after. That's a proven fact, and to say he should have been kicked out of the league is utterly ridiculous. Dennis Rodman and Vernon Maxwell did WAY more in their run ins with fans than Artest did.

Stephen Jackson should have had the longest suspension for actually attacking someone in the stands, and Jermaine O'Neal being suspended was the most ridiculous of all. O'Neal never set foot in the stands, all he did was punch a fan that was ON THE COURT, and was bowing up looking for a fight.

jthig32
04-04-2006, 12:46 PM
I don't think he's the best 2 way player, because his offense is crap. Do you remember 2 years ago when he personally took the Pacers out of the playoffs. Because he started trying to play offense.
To me the only 2 way player in the league is probably Kobe. Everyone is weak on one end. I mean as far as being top 5-10 on both sides of the ball. With Wade And Bron being close, but they haven't proven it on the defensive side yet.
Hell I'd say The #2 on both sides is Marion. So there you go
Artest is not in the top 2.

You might want to go check some stats before saying something as ridiculous as "his offense is crap". Take a look at his last three years or so, and tell me how they are "crap". :confused: :confused:

Arne
04-04-2006, 01:52 PM
I don't remember Artest gingerly walking up in the stands and asking the guy if he threw a beer, then casually patting the gentleman on the arm. I seem to remember him lying on his back, a beer hitting him, then ARtest, like a drunken fan, running, RUNNING, into the stands wildly going after a guy who didn't even throw the beer and punching him. He shoulld have been kciked out of the league. Stephen Jackson also should have been suspended for the rest of the year.
If you look at the replay of the incident, if the man actually threw the beer, there would be no beer in the cup to get ARtest wet because of the distance the cup would have traveled. The man was just laughing unctrolably at the WOMAN that was behind him who threw the beer. Go back and look at it again. The man was attacked for basically laughing at Artest. He will never be cut any slack on my part for the actions he took that night in Detroit.
You are the perfect exemple for the media's influence on us. Artest DIDN'T PUNCH THE GUY. He basically got suspended for a whole season because he grabbed someone from the stands and asked him a couple of times if he threw that beer.

Like jthig said, Jackson should have been suspended for the longest time and I found it pretty cool actually that O'neal beat that little punk down, after he came on the court looking for trouble although noone ever attacked him.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 01:58 PM
the entire incident was Artests fault. everything that happened was Artests fault. His punishment was his fault. Jackson had to hit that guy because of ARtest. Oneil had to hit the other guy because of Artest. The fans booed and threw stuff at ARtst becuase of himself. That whole entire thing was Artests fault and no one elses fault. Jackson should be help accountable for what he did as well as Oneil, as well as Artest.

So from your estimation, a player running frantically into the stands laying his hands on another person, whether it be hitting or grabbing, is ok? No, the media did not influence me at all. I know what I saw, and I saw it millions of times. Artest should be gone recording records and promoting his record label.

jthig32
04-04-2006, 02:16 PM
the entire incident was Artests fault. everything that happened was Artests fault. His punishment was his fault. Jackson had to hit that guy because of ARtest. Oneil had to hit the other guy because of Artest. The fans booed and threw stuff at ARtst becuase of himself. That whole entire thing was Artests fault and no one elses fault. Jackson should be help accountable for what he did as well as Oneil, as well as Artest.

So from your estimation, a player running frantically into the stands laying his hands on another person, whether it be hitting or grabbing, is ok? No, the media did not influence me at all. I know what I saw, and I saw it millions of times. Artest should be gone recording records and promoting his record label.

The whole thing was Artest's fault? That's laughable. How about Ben Wallace starting the whole damn thing? How about the idiot that threw the beer in the first place. How about the idiot Detroit fans that turned it into a riot.

This was FAR from the first time a player had entered the stands. Hell, Cliff Harris and Charlie Waters jumped into the stands in full pads and helmets and beat on some fans. Should they have been banned from football?????

There were a ton of people at fault for the incident, and Artest's punishment was way out of line with everyone else's.

Certainly not saying it's ok. It's not. He deserved at least as many games as Jackson got. But the whole damn season and playoffs was too much.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:17 PM
please watch the video. Tell me, what is the first thing that Artest does to the guy once he reaches him?

He takes his ass to the ground. That is what happens. He doesn't grab him and ask him any questions. He takes him to the ground until the rest of the people around pull him off of the guy.

http://media.putfile.com/NBA-Fights---Ron-Artest-2

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:18 PM
And Also, what causes Ben wallace to hit ARtest, becuase of Artests cheap as foul and hitting him in the head,. Watch the video. it is that easy.

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:19 PM
the entire incident was Artests fault. everything that happened was Artests fault. His punishment was his fault. Jackson had to hit that guy because of ARtest. Oneil had to hit the other guy because of Artest. The fans booed and threw stuff at ARtst becuase of himself. That whole entire thing was Artests fault and no one elses fault. Jackson should be help accountable for what he did as well as Oneil, as well as Artest.

So from your estimation, a player running frantically into the stands laying his hands on another person, whether it be hitting or grabbing, is ok? No, the media did not influence me at all. I know what I saw, and I saw it millions of times. Artest should be gone recording records and promoting his record label.
It's quite obvious that you do not know what you saw. Because punching is not grabbing someone.

And just remember who started the whole thing, it was not Artest. - Ben Wallace started to go nuts, because Artest fouled him (a foul that the referee saw and for which Wallace would've gotten his FTs, it was a normal foul that you should be used to playing in the NBA, especially as a "bad boy" like Ben Wallace). Afterwards Artest cooled down, he tried everything he could to go out of Wallace's way. Then Ben Wallace tries to go after him a second time and then throws a towel.

Artest is still calm and actually tried everything to let this situation pass without any further violence up to the moment when some shit-head decides to throw a beer at his head.

So you can blame Ben Wallace for going after Artest as the first person to make the situation escalade, you can blame the morron in the stands who threw that beer, but it certainly wasn't Artest who started all of this.

By the way, Ben Wallace should have been suspended for at least 20 games for that incident.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Artests actions, from flagrantly fouling ben wallace, to not controlling himself when a cup of beer lands on him, an f'ing cup of beer, to him rushing into the stands. What do you expect the people to do when something like that happens. kick back and let Ron beat the crap of him?> geez

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:22 PM
It's quite obvious that you do not know what you saw. Because punching is not grabbing someone.

And just remember who started the whole thing, it was not Artest. - Ben Wallace started to go nuts, because Artest fouled him (a foul that the referee saw and for which Wallace would've gotten his FTs, it was a normal foul that you should be used to playing in the NBA, especially as a "bad boy" like Ben Wallace). Afterwards Artest cooled down, he tried everything he could to go out of Wallace's way. Then Ben Wallace tries to go after him a second time and then throws a towel.

Artest is still calm and actually tried everything to let this situation pass without any further violence up to the moment when some shit-head decides to throw a beer at his head.

So you can blame Ben Wallace for going after Artest as the first person to make the situation escalade, you can blame the morron in the stands who threw that beer, but it certainly wasn't Artest who started all of this.

By the way, Ben Wallace should have been suspended for at least 20 games for that incident.
This is quite funny. No, it wasn't Artests fault. HAHA. pleae jog back up there and check out the video. he did not grab the guy. He threw him to the fround. Granted it was not a punch, but a throw to the ground. my fault.

mcsluggo
04-04-2006, 02:23 PM
The video can be viewed here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6534820/).

EDIT: Fixed the link.

There's some analysis, etc. available.

In the video you can see the cup hitting Artest...him going into the stands...the infamous O'Neal punch...

Watching it again...just shocking.

Shocking to me was the over-reaction surrounding this incident.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:24 PM
The whole thing was Artest's fault? That's laughable. How about Ben Wallace starting the whole damn thing? How about the idiot that threw the beer in the first place. How about the idiot Detroit fans that turned it into a riot.

This was FAR from the first time a player had entered the stands. Hell, Cliff Harris and Charlie Waters jumped into the stands in full pads and helmets and beat on some fans. Should they have been banned from football?????
There were a ton of people at fault for the incident, and Artest's punishment was way out of line with everyone else's.

Certainly not saying it's ok. It's not. He deserved at least as many games as Jackson got. But the whole damn season and playoffs was too much.

YES. There is absolutely no reason EVER to go into the stands.

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:26 PM
Artests actions, from flagrantly fouling ben wallace, to not controlling himself when a cup of beer lands on him, an f'ing cup of beer, to him rushing into the stands. What do you expect the people to do when something like that happens. kick back and let Ron beat the crap of him?> geez
I expect the people to not throw anything at Artest. That should be the least someone could ask for.

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:30 PM
YES. There is absolutely no reason EVER to go into the stands.
There is no reason to throw anything at a player as well. But if someone does, it shouldn't surprise if a player does go into the stands.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:30 PM
I expect the people to not throw anything at Artest. That should be the least someone could ask for.
So beccause someone threw something at him, a cup of beer, he has the right to run up there and confront him? If so, then why not when there is an outrageous fan calling you every name in the book. Run up there then and take him down. It's called, get security to take him out of the stadium. That simple. But with Artest small brain, he couldn't conprehend that. Instead, first thing he thought of was to rush the guy.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:32 PM
There is no reason to throw anything at a player as well. But if someone does, it shouldn't surprise if a player does go into the stands.

Why didn't AI run into the stands after the guy who threw a quater at him during the game, why didn't Jimmie Johnson run into the stands after the people who were throwing snowballs at him, why didn't Michael Irvin run into the stands at the fans who were throwing batteries at the team?

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:34 PM
If a fan calls you "every name in the book", then do the same to him. But if someone attacks a player, he should really not be surprised by any reaction.

Don't talk about the incident as if the fans were innocent.

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:37 PM
Why didn't AI run into the stands after the guy who threw a quater at him during the game, why didn't Jimmie Johnson run into the stands after the people who were throwing snowballs at him, why didn't Michael Irvin run into the stands at the fans who were throwing batteries at the team?
Were they attacked a few moment s before by some anabolic stereoids using beast from the east? Was their adrenalin already as pumped up as Artest's was?

Why didn't Ben Wallace just let the referee decide about a foul? Wouldn't the situation be solved like that?

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:38 PM
I am sorry, let me clarify this.
I just watched the video again and exactly what Artest did was put his hand on the gentlemans face, then proceeded to shove him to the ground.
In my book, that does not count as grabbing a gentleman and asking him if he threw a beer at me.

Arne
04-04-2006, 02:44 PM
the entire incident was Artests fault. everything that happened was Artests fault. His punishment was his fault. Jackson had to hit that guy because of ARtest. Oneil had to hit the other guy because of Artest. The fans booed and threw stuff at ARtst becuase of himself. That whole entire thing was Artests fault and no one elses fault. Jackson should be help accountable for what he did as well as Oneil, as well as Artest.
Ok, Ben Wallace did the right thing, the fan throwing the beer did the right thing and all the other fans throwing beer, chairs and whatever they could get did the right thing as well. Ofcourse and god bless America where there is always only one black sheep...

We might just have to agree to disagree, because this discussion seriously doesn't lead anywhere, since you have already pointed out who you thing is responsible for everything. Just like the media after that incident and just like Mr. Stern...

jthig32
04-04-2006, 02:46 PM
And Also, what causes Ben wallace to hit ARtest, becuase of Artests cheap as foul and hitting him in the head,. Watch the video. it is that easy.

Since when do hard foults cause riots???

jthig32
04-04-2006, 02:49 PM
Ok, let ME clarify something. Clearly what Artest did was not cool. He deserved to be punished. You are right, you can not go into the stands. What I am discussing is the level of punishment. You seem to think any breaking of rules deserves a lifetime ban from the NBA for some reason.

He broke the rules, he was punished, I'm simply saying that he was punished too much. And to blame the entire thing solely on Artest is both ignorant and small minded.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:49 PM
I am not saying Ben nor the people did stupid stuff. they did, and the people faced cahrges for what they did. But Ron flagrantly fouled Ben, he took his head off. We see people all the time retaliate, uh Jerry a few weeks ago with Horry, Shaq a few years back going after Brad Miller. That is not a new thing. Yes Ron tried to get away from Ben, of course, he was about to get his ass kicked. Did the fan have the right to throw stuff at him? no, by no means. But, Ron, being the cool guy that he was being at the time, should not have run into the stands and attack a person.
Just like Dale Davis, or whoever it was went into the stands this year, he had NO right. And rightfully so, he was punished.

jthig32
04-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Yeah, well Antonio Davis got 5 games........

Granted he did it in a much calmer manner, but it's not like going into the stands is an automatic 80 game suspension.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Ok, let ME clarify something. Clearly what Artest did was not cool. He deserved to be punished. You are right, you can not go into the stands. What I am discussing is the level of punishment. You seem to think any breaking of rules deserves a lifetime ban from the NBA for some reason.

He broke the rules, he was punished, I'm simply saying that he was punished too much. And to blame the entire thing solely on Artest is both ignorant and small minded.

This was not breaking the rules like he traveled or something. He freaking physically assaulted someone who might or might not have thrown a beer at him. A FREAKING BEER. It is not like he threw a hand grenade at him. Yes whoever threw the beer is definately in the wrong, and he should be banned from NBA games. But Artest flipped. He went Psycho. He should not be in the NBA, he should be in counseling.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 02:54 PM
Yeah, well Antonio Davis got 5 games........

Granted he did it in a much calmer manner, but it's not like going into the stands is an automatic 80 game suspension.
Yes, and Antonio Davis didn;t physically assault the guy either.

jthig32
04-04-2006, 02:56 PM
This was not breaking the rules like he traveled or something. He freaking physically assaulted someone who might or might not have thrown a beer at him. A FREAKING BEER. It is not like he threw a hand grenade at him. Yes whoever threw the beer is definately in the wrong, and he should be banned from NBA games. But Artest flipped. He went Psycho. He should not be in the NBA, he should be in counseling.

That's fine. You can believe that if you want. But you have to apply that same logic to everyone. Vernon Maxwell and Rodman would've gotten lifetime bans as well.

Also, I don't see how you can say he "went psycho". Obviously he lost it, but are you really saying you have to have some sort of problem in order to lose it when someone hits you with a beer? I know plenty of guys with a bad enough tember to get into it with someone that threw a beer on them.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 03:01 PM
when you rush into a crowd of 50,000 not knowing who did what to you but you are on a mission to kick someones ass in that crowd, I would call that crazy.

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 03:09 PM
OK, mabey a lifetime ban is a bit much. But before I would let someone that did that back in the league, he would have to do a whole lot to get back in. A years suspension would be first, then some type of psych evaluation, cause what ever you say, there was something not clicking right when he did what he did, then some community service. Mabey donating alot of money to some type of charity. He came back after his suspension and kept saying crazy things and evetually pretty much got kicked off his team.

Arne
04-04-2006, 03:23 PM
I am not saying Ben nor the people did stupid stuff. they did, and the people faced cahrges for what they did. But Ron flagrantly fouled Ben, he took his head off. We see people all the time retaliate, uh Jerry a few weeks ago with Horry, Shaq a few years back going after Brad Miller. That is not a new thing. Yes Ron tried to get away from Ben, of course, he was about to get his ass kicked. Did the fan have the right to throw stuff at him? no, by no means. But, Ron, being the cool guy that he was being at the time, should not have run into the stands and attack a person.
Just like Dale Davis, or whoever it was went into the stands this year, he had NO right. And rightfully so, he was punished.
Artest did boxing for a couple of years, so I'm not so sure if he would've been about to get his ass kicked, if he had really wanted to fight.

mcsluggo
04-04-2006, 03:25 PM
I would put my $$$ on Artest in a steel cage match between the two lunatics (Bwallace and Artest)

sixeightmkw
04-04-2006, 03:29 PM
there is a difference in boxing, and fighting. There both from the street so it would be interesting.

jthig32
04-04-2006, 10:54 PM
there is a difference in boxing, and fighting. There both from the street so it would be interesting.

Um, Artest has a pretty rough backround, if I recall correctly. I would imagine he's been in his fair share of street fights.

MavsX
04-04-2006, 11:06 PM
i just put in an application at circuit city too..to get that discount

chumdawg
04-04-2006, 11:09 PM
I'm just sayin'...if I had to start something with an NBA guy--I mean absolutely HAD to--I'd get it on with that puss Ben Wallace a lot more often than I would with Artest. Artest would hurt me. In ways I didn't know I could be hurt.

EricaLubarsky
04-05-2006, 12:04 AM
I would put my $$$ on Artest in a steel cage match between the two lunatics (Bwallace and Artest)

I'd put my money on a 7-foot black-belt who has survived REAL violence.


http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/12-02-2004.NS_02DJ.GGP1G5UI7.1.jpg

Five-ofan
04-05-2006, 08:58 AM
Trust me a guy that can box can beat "someone from the street" Being tough is nice and if you have equal or close to equal fighting skills it will determine the winner but knowing how to fight is the biggest determing factor in who wins a fight.

sike
04-05-2006, 09:45 AM
when you rush into a crowd of 50,000 not knowing who did what to you but you are on a mission to kick someones ass in that crowd, I would call that crazy.
50,000...wow....that is one big arena. ;)

mcsluggo
04-05-2006, 11:16 AM
I'd put my money on a 7-foot black-belt who has survived REAL violence.


http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/12-02-2004.NS_02DJ.GGP1G5UI7.1.jpg

Who is the seven foot black belt?

From ESPN:

Ben Wallace: 6'9" tall 240 lbs.
Ron Artest: 6'7" tall 260 Lbs

sixeightmkw
04-05-2006, 11:18 AM
Mbenga is a black belt.

sike
04-05-2006, 11:26 AM
Who is the seven foot black belt?

From ESPN:

Ben Wallace: 6'9" tall 240 lbs.
Ron Artest: 6'7" tall 260 Lbs
uh....I wonder.......

Just211
04-05-2006, 11:42 AM
You might want to go check some stats before saying something as ridiculous as "his offense is crap". Take a look at his last three years or so, and tell me how they are "crap". :confused: :confused:

i don't have to look at his stats, his offense doesn't help his team. He's a one-on-one guy, with a weak one on one game. almost Any player in the league could compile #'s if they have the ball in there hands, and the shots.
As far as his #'s, other than Shots per game, and points per game, which are relative, his are similar if not worse than Antoine Walkers and Bruce Bowens.
So stats are stats, who cares. I'm looking at his game, not stats

orangedays
04-05-2006, 02:17 PM
It's interesting, though RonRon's arrival has been the catalyst behind the King's recent revivalist movement - he has been playing some of the most offensively-inefficient ball of his career as a King: .388 FG% (career-low; first time sub-.400 in career) and .305 3P% (career-low).

This surprises me considering how many open-looks and lay-ups he must be getting in the Sacramento system.

The Kings are only +3.1 pts/100 offensively with Artest on the court but a stunning -6.5 pts/100 defensively. The rest of their offensive numbers look pretty much the same though they do improve rebounding (a big weakness) by 2.3% with Artest on-court.

While characterizing Artest's offense as 'crap' may be a stretch - Artest's biggest influence on the game as a King has certainly been on the defensive end.

jthig32
04-05-2006, 04:06 PM
It's interesting, though RonRon's arrival has been the catalyst behind the King's recent revivalist movement - he has been playing some of the most offensively-inefficient ball of his career as a King: .388 FG% (career-low; first time sub-.400 in career) and .305 3P% (career-low).

This surprises me considering how many open-looks and lay-ups he must be getting in the Sacramento system.

The Kings are only +3.1 pts/100 offensively with Artest on the court but a stunning -6.5 pts/100 defensively. The rest of their offensive numbers look pretty much the same though they do improve rebounding (a big weakness) by 2.3% with Artest on-court.

While characterizing Artest's offense as 'crap' may be a stretch - Artest's biggest influence on the game as a King has certainly been on the defensive end.

Yeah I agree. Certainly his biggest impact is defensively. But I also don't expect him to continue this way offensively with the Kings. He'll turn it around. The last few years in Indiana he was an above average offensive player pretty much across the board.

Calling his offense crap is ridiculous.

MavsX
04-05-2006, 10:28 PM
i think im one of the best looking idiot in the world.....according to me

orangedays
04-05-2006, 11:03 PM
i think im one of the best looking idiot in the world.....according to me

Me too ;)

bernardos70
04-05-2006, 11:27 PM
Did you watch the game tonite when he was guarding Ginobili. He nullified him. I actually felt sorry for Ginobili, then I realized he's Argentine, and it made me smile when he got punked over and over by Artest.

Just211
04-06-2006, 08:21 AM
sometimes I am ridiculous :D
but hey I don't like his game, I like hi D, but I'm not impressed with his offense. Although he does look a little better in Sac than Ind

sike
04-06-2006, 08:51 AM
"Calling his offense crap is ridiculous."
what if I call you "crap" is that so ridiculous? ;)

Artest is an idiot....but I like him Sac Town

rabbitproof
04-06-2006, 02:07 PM
I'm about to become a huge Ron-Ron fan in a couple weeks.

Arne
05-01-2006, 09:58 AM
Chris Paul considers him the MVP of the second half of the season.

Five-ofan
05-01-2006, 10:02 AM
Ron artest never needs to be mentioned in the same sentence as mvp without the word not in between them.

EricaLubarsky
05-01-2006, 11:42 AM
Its the Bonzi/Bibby show out there. Artest is a decent defender and all but Artest looks like a Bonzi clone more than the other way around.

Arne
05-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Its the Bonzi/Bibby show out there. Artest is a decent defender and all but Artest looks like a Bonzi clone more than the other way around.
Why did they suck then at the beginning of the season? Yeah, because Artest was not there.

In game two (when Artest was out) Ginobilli had 32/9 on 50% shooting.

In all the other games (when Artest defended him) Ginobilli had 7 PPG (!!!) on 39% shooting.

Don't underestimate Artest. He's the best defender in the league. Period.

sixeightmkw
05-01-2006, 12:04 PM
hmmm

jthig32
05-01-2006, 12:16 PM
"decent defender"

Understatement of this hour, at least.

sike
05-01-2006, 12:18 PM
shutting down the vastly overrated Manu has been a beautiful sight...

Five-ofan
05-01-2006, 12:19 PM
et herego proc (i think)

Jeremiah
05-01-2006, 09:54 PM
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Five-ofan
05-02-2006, 10:20 AM
So assuming lebron would go first you would take ron effing artest over Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Wade etc? You have lost your damn mind.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 10:42 AM
...

jthig32
05-02-2006, 10:52 AM
Yeah, that's pretty nuts. He'd be top 20 on my board, but second? Um no.

Five-ofan
05-02-2006, 11:03 AM
The funny thing is you mention two players that are BETTER than artest as guys that would be there in the second round but fail to mention that artest would be there if you didnt take him.

jthig32
05-02-2006, 11:58 AM
Hmm, I dunno. I'd defintely take Artest over Brand. Pierce...before this year? I'd have thought about it.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 12:08 PM
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sixeightmkw
05-02-2006, 12:17 PM
ARtest is an average player. He is a career 41% FG shooter, a career 31% tp shooter, career 4.8 RPG, and pretty high turnover rate for being a Forward at 2.30 per game career. He is a good defender and can generate some steals and lock down on defenders. But he will never be elite. He never has been elite. You would think that after 7 years pro, an elite player would have showed it by now. He has not. He had a career year with Indy a few years back, but since then has slipped back to what he has been his entire career, and that is a good player. He has alimited game from 15 ft out, can back down smaller defenders and drives to the hoop. But that is about it for offense. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, Brand, Wade, etc are or will be elite players in the NBA. Artest would have to really work to make my top 10. Mabey top 15.
And if everyone forgot his mental problems.

jthig32
05-02-2006, 12:27 PM
He's not just good defensively. He is arguably the very best defender in the NBA among swingmen. That, combined with average scoring ability, make him a top 20 player in the NBA, imo.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 12:49 PM
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orangedays
05-02-2006, 12:57 PM
He loves to play defense. He plays defense. He plays defense better than anyone else in the league. Or, at least on the wing.

That's exactly it. In a league dominated by the PF position - Artest is a SF, a big one, but a SF nonetheless. He is a perimeter defender who doesn't have the size to shut down Dirk or Duncan or Garnett or Brand or Gasol or O'Neal or Bosh or...well, you get my point. Compound that with the fact that he isn't fast enough to guard Parker or Nash or Paul. And do you really think Artest is going to keep the elite swingmen of the league like Bryant, McGrady, Pierce, Wade from scoring 25+ night-in, night-out? You're kidding yourself. So what you've really got by drafting Artest second...Second (goodness)...is, well, not a whole lot. And I don't think I need to tell you that an elite defensive squad doesn't start from the perimeter - it starts from the post.

I think that in this league, a GM can always get a guy that can score 20 per night, and wants to score 20 per night. A bit harder to get, but certainly still feasible, is one who can get 25/night. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Guys who can and will defend like Artest are few and far between. Does his great defense inspire others to play defense when they would not otherwise? I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so.

Plus, he can score too. He's not a great scorer, but he's a pretty good scorer.

Scorers, indeed, are a dime-a-dozen. Efficient scorers, however, are few and far between. Legitimate #1 options? Even more vintage. Artest is neither of those things - in terms of scorers, he is just the sort of offensive threat you describe: dime-a-dozen. He's not bad by any means, but his offensive capabilities are grossly overrated and he is by no stretch of the imagination a #1 option. If Ron Artest is leading your team in points - a swingman with no outside shot and and who hits the ones he does take at a rim-rattling 40% clip - then you sir, are in deep trouble.

I don't think this makes him the second best player in the league, but if I get to pick second, I pick him. Then I probably get someone like Brand or Pierce, who'd most assuredly be around, in the second round.

If we were both GMs, and you had the 2nd pick, I'd want you to pick Artest too. I would then offer to trade you Kwame Brown for your next pick.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 01:02 PM
He loves to play defense. He plays defense. He plays defense better than anyone else in the league. Or, at least on the wing.

That's exactly it. In a league dominated by the PF position - Artest is a SF, a big one, but a SF nonetheless. He is a perimeter defender who doesn't have the size to shut down Dirk or Duncan or Garnett or Brand or Gasol or O'Neal or Bosh or...well, you get my point. Compound that with the fact that he isn't fast enough to guard Parker or Nash or Paul. And do you really think Artest is going to keep the elite swingmen of the league like Bryant, McGrady, Pierce, Wade from scoring 25+ night-in, night-out? You're kidding yourself. So what you've really got by drafting Artest second...Second (goodness)...is, well, not a whole lot. And I don't think I need to tell you that an elite defensive squad doesn't start from the perimeter - it starts from the post.

I think that in this league, a GM can always get a guy that can score 20 per night, and wants to score 20 per night. A bit harder to get, but certainly still feasible, is one who can get 25/night. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Guys who can and will defend like Artest are few and far between. Does his great defense inspire others to play defense when they would not otherwise? I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so.

Plus, he can score too. He's not a great scorer, but he's a pretty good scorer.

Scorers, indeed, are a dime-a-dozen. Efficient scorers, however, are few and far between. Legitimate #1 options? Even more vintage. Artest is neither of those things - in terms of scorers, he is just the sort of offensive threat you describe: dime-a-dozen. He's not bad by any means, but his offensive capabilities are grossly overrated and he is by no stretch of the imagination a #1 option. If Ron Artest is leading your team in points - a swingman with no outside shot and who hits the ones he does take at a rim-rattling 40% clip - then you sir, are in deep trouble.

I don't think this makes him the second best player in the league, but if I get to pick second, I pick him. Then I probably get someone like Brand or Pierce, who'd most assuredly be around, in the second round.

If we were both GMs, and you had the 2nd pick, I'd want you to pick Artest too. I would then offer to trade you Kwame Brown for your next pick.

EDIT:

Not entirely relevant but I thought it was interesting: the SF position is Sacramento's worst in terms of PER. It also shoots the worst eFG% (.453).

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 01:20 PM
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Arne
05-02-2006, 01:46 PM
I would never build my franchise around Ron Artest. Never ever.

But he's a good fit in a team like Sacramento where there is no big star besides him, only very good players. He's their best player now, because of his defense and they all know that, but it's not like they've got a team, in which he has to carry the scoring load.

Artest is not a franchise player, but the best defender in the league and a good offensive player.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 01:48 PM
Oh, and I wouldn't take Kwame from you for the second round pick, maybe Nash though.

chum might have something to say about Nash falling to the second round ;)

Arne
05-02-2006, 01:50 PM
ARtest is an average player. He is a career 41% FG shooter, a career 31% tp shooter, career 4.8 RPG, and pretty high turnover rate for being a Forward at 2.30 per game career. He is a good defender and can generate some steals and lock down on defenders. But he will never be elite. He never has been elite. You would think that after 7 years pro, an elite player would have showed it by now. He has not. He had a career year with Indy a few years back, but since then has slipped back to what he has been his entire career, and that is a good player. He has alimited game from 15 ft out, can back down smaller defenders and drives to the hoop. But that is about it for offense. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, Brand, Wade, etc are or will be elite players in the NBA. Artest would have to really work to make my top 10. Mabey top 15.
And if everyone forgot his mental problems.
"Good defender" is an underestimation of the hour again. Artest is the best or at least in the elite of the defenders in this league.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 02:01 PM
"Good defender" is an underestimation of the hour again. Artest is the best or at least in the elite of the defenders in this league.

Artest is a dominant defensive player.

Don't have the latest stats but in his last full season (03-04), in the Pacer's 55 victories, the players Artest guarded averaged 8.6 ppg and shot 35% from the floor. With Artest on the floor (36.9 mpg), opposing starters only averaged 11.5 FGA per game.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 02:06 PM
I'm not picking Artest to be my number one scoring option though, I'm picking him to be my number one defensive player. I don't know if most, but a lot of MVP candidates and candidate types, are swingmen. When my team plays teams with those guys, I want Artest guarding them. They might get their average, or they might get close to their average score, but they're not going to shoot their average percentage, and they're not going to, or they are a heckuva lot less likely to get their timely shots at the end of quarters.

You're ignoring the first part of my argument. What's Artest to do against Nowitzki, Brand, Bosh, Garnett, Gasol, O'Neal, Duncan, et al? There are alot of good swingmen out there and sure Artest will do his job against them, but as I said in my previous post, this is fast becoming a power forward-dominated league, and Artest is out of position.

sixeightmkw
05-02-2006, 02:13 PM
This league drastically lacks defense on a player level. On a team level, there is some great team defense. Artest, yeah, probably the best individual defensive player. But, this league is watered down by total offense minded players. So yeah, Artest is going to show as one of the best. all he really does is play defense like it is supposed to be played. There is no elite defensive player.
Here is just some highlights of scores of players that Artest defended, just througout the season assuming that since he is elite, he would have guarded the best player on the team.

Kobe 30 on 12-28 shooting (but mabey he guarded Odom that game)
Odom 24 on 9-12 shooting
Dirk 29 on 11-17 shooting (but mabey he guarded Jho that game)
Jho 23 on 9-19 shooting
Marion 23 on 9-15 shooting (but mabey he guarded Raja Bell that game)
Bell 25 on 9-13 shooting
Mobley 19 on 7-14 shooting

These are just a few of the players that Artest has guarded as an elite defensive player in the NBA this year. I didn't think elite players got abused like that.

sixeightmkw
05-02-2006, 02:16 PM
you would think that an elite defensive player in the NBA against the best teams and the best players in the NBA would step up on that level with them with his defense.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 02:20 PM
'05-06 Pacers were +10.1 points per 100 possessions with Artest on the floor (offense: +6.2, defense: -3.9).

'05-06 Kings were +9.8 points per 100 possessions with Artest on the floor (offense: +3.7, defense: -6.0).

sixeightmkw
05-02-2006, 02:23 PM
or mabey Redd with 32 on 13-21 shooting (mabey he guarded Simmons that game)
Simmons 21 on 7-11 shooting

Or mabey the other time they played Kobe 36 on 14-27 shooting
or againm abey he guarded Odom at 19 shooting 9-16.

orangedays
05-02-2006, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't think that anecdotal game evidence is an accurate metric by which to measure Artest's defensive prowess (I presume I could find just as many examples of games where he effectively guarded the opposing #1 option). We don't know how much time he spent defending each of the players you are listing, what kind of playing time he received, or other pertinent factors.

Looking purely at the +/- figures (an admittedly imperfect metric, especially considering the drop-off from Artest to the next-best-player at his position) I would argue that he has been a serious defensive presence, particularly in his time with the Kings.

I would be very interested to see what the data has to say about opposing player performance while being defended by Artest. EDIT: for this season.

sixeightmkw
05-02-2006, 02:44 PM
Alll I am saying is the only "Stars" he has shut down are Melo in one game and Lebron the one time they played the Cavs. Being elite means you shut down the opposing teams star, kinda like he did with Ginobli, but Ginobli is pretty banged up, but yeah, he did a great job on him. But just looking at the, lets say, MVP candidates, that he would guard, they definatley outplayed him. And they all shot 46% to over 50% for the game.

Again, I am not saying that he is not a good defender, not even saying he isn't great, but this league is watered down. Defense on an individual level is lacking very drastically right now.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 03:49 PM
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orangedays
05-02-2006, 04:02 PM
I don't know if he could guard any of them, but I do know this, the power forwards can't do it on their own, they have to get the ball from someone, and they're not going to score all the points. Perhaps in the situations where the best scorer on the opposing team is a PF or a C, Artest would guard the second best scorer.

Concurrently, Artest cannot do it all on his own. If Artest can "shut down" the opposing team's 2nd best player, wouldn't the other team's best player be able to similarly dominate your 2nd best defender? And unless I'm mistaken, won't there be 3 other players on the floor for the opposing team?

Next, PFs aren't taking shots at the end of quarters, or when the team needs a score, unless it's Nowitzski, [sometimes].

Nowitzki, Garnett, Gasol, Duncan, O'Neal, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber are all among the league leaders in "Game Winning Shot" FGA. Nowitzki is one of the top clutch shooters in the league.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 04:13 PM
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orangedays
05-02-2006, 04:31 PM
I still don't see your point. I pick Artest because he's the best wing defender there is. Perhaps the best defender there is out there. So I'll lose a few games that I might have won with a defensive player like Wallace, or a player like Kobe. Those teams will also lose a few games that they wouldn't have had they been paired with Artest. I want to start my team with defense, while others may opt for offense.

My point is that Artest is not a sufficiently-versatile defender to start a team around. He is a 2/3-defender. Even assuming he is the best wing defender out there, I seriously question how much that will really help you. He is too small to defend the 4/5 and too slow to defend the 1. And in a league where EVERY elite defensive team has a legitimate post presence, and referees have been directed to call more fouls on the perimeter to favor offensive players, and PFs (a position Artest cannot guard) are the offensive weapon of choice - I just don't see can justify picking him second.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 04:40 PM
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orangedays
05-02-2006, 04:42 PM
Ok. That's a solid opinion. I'm also the guy that would have picked Allen Iverson first about eight years ago. I like 'em a little crazy.

Haha...c'mon, you know you want Kwame. :D

Arne
05-02-2006, 04:59 PM
This league drastically lacks defense on a player level. On a team level, there is some great team defense. Artest, yeah, probably the best individual defensive player. But, this league is watered down by total offense minded players. So yeah, Artest is going to show as one of the best. all he really does is play defense like it is supposed to be played. There is no elite defensive player.
Here is just some highlights of scores of players that Artest defended, just througout the season assuming that since he is elite, he would have guarded the best player on the team.

Kobe 30 on 12-28 shooting (but mabey he guarded Odom that game)
Odom 24 on 9-12 shooting
Dirk 29 on 11-17 shooting (but mabey he guarded Jho that game)
Jho 23 on 9-19 shooting
Marion 23 on 9-15 shooting (but mabey he guarded Raja Bell that game)
Bell 25 on 9-13 shooting
Mobley 19 on 7-14 shooting

These are just a few of the players that Artest has guarded as an elite defensive player in the NBA this year. I didn't think elite players got abused like that.
Here are some games from his time in Indianna that I posted a couple of months ago:

Just look at some Indianna games against teams with good SGs/Sfs:

Nets - Jefferson managed only 7 points...
Bucks - Redd had 28, but was only 7 of 22 from the field...
Cavs - LeBron had 19 point on 6 of 20 shooting...
Clippers - Mobley had 12 points, Magette 15 - don't know whom he had to guard...
Sonics - Allen had 26, but was only 10 of 26...

Last season:

Celtics - Paul Pierce 5-14 and 15 points
Clippers - Magette 5-13 and 13 points
Detroit - Hamilton had 20 points on 6 of 15 shooting
Celtics - Paul Pierce 6-14 and 20 points

SGs or SFs just don't go off on Indianna when Artest is on the floor.

We already know that he holds Manu to 7 PPG on 39% shooting.

And about the games you picked: Odom, Dirk and Marion are playing as PFs this season and I don't think that Sacramento could effort to let their PF guard the opposing teams SF or SG, so I don't think Artest was on either one of them. The only one he was on was Dirk, but did anyone ever say that he could stop Dirk? We were talking about wing players...

And then to this:

Mobley 19 on 7-14 shooting

What you didn't bother to mention was that Mobley came off the bench, and Quinton Ross started and actually played 26 minutes.

So Artest is supposed to be on the starter and actually Ross managed to put up BIG NUMBERS: 0 points on 0-3 shooting.

You're picking out games and at the same time you don'T mention all the other games, where he defended great.

Jeremiah
05-02-2006, 05:05 PM
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dude1394
05-02-2006, 06:11 PM
http://imgs.idnes.cz/rbasket/A050916_ROU_NEME1_V.JPG

Dirk always looks like he's been in the carribbean when he has that bright white jersey on.

Arne
05-03-2006, 12:36 AM
http://imgs.idnes.cz/rbasket/A050916_ROU_NEME1_V.JPG

Dirk always looks like he's been in the carribbean when he has that bright white jersey on.
I guess he was in the carribbean during the summer and before he went to the Euro Championship.

Just211
05-03-2006, 07:34 AM
I take back my saying his offense is "crap". But it is extremely awkward, but I think he has improved.

Five-ofan
05-03-2006, 08:15 AM
Artest IS a great defender. At worst he is top 3 in the league. That said role players that are great defensively are much easier to find than guys that are true number 1s. So Jeremiah do you think the mavs should trade dirk for artest because that is what you are saying. About my above post i said excluding the nuttiness those guys are better. I would never want artest to be the guy i built around because he is just to unpredictable. I would much rather have a dirk and say bruce bowen combo than an artest and some ineffecient scorer. Plus you have to realize that the majority of those scorers are 2/3s and since artest is one of those guys its tough to get more than one more of them on the court. The memphis grizzlies just showed you what getting a decent deffensive team with no go to guy gets you.

Jeremiah
05-03-2006, 11:33 AM
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orangedays
05-03-2006, 11:40 AM
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if I had the number 2 pick in a pool of the current NBA players, I'd pick Artest number 2.

And I think I could find a goto scorer at number 32, don't you? I can't think of the top 90 players, but I think that I could get Artest number 2 and a go to scorer at number 32. For instance, I think Redd, Ray Allen, and Ginobili would be there. Of course, I also think that they would be there in Round 3. Again, I can't quite think of all of them, but I imagine that there'd be some at 32.

I think you may be overestimating the depth of the current NBA talent pool. It is certainly wishful thinking to believe that Redd, Allen or Ginobili would be available (all three are top 25 players).

Once you get past 25 or 30, you're deep into #2 option territory:

32 - Chris Webber
33 - Cassell
34 - Terry
35 - Hamilton
36 - Johnson
37 - Bibby
38 - Jamison
39 - Gooden
40 - Wallace

Jeremiah
05-03-2006, 11:45 AM
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orangedays
05-03-2006, 11:50 AM
I might be. But hey, if I'm taking Artest at 2, who I can't figure out where he lands on the scale of NBA players re talent, that seems to me that someone better than him will fall, hopefully to number 2. If not, I still like my chances with Artest. But we've covered this already, I like 'em a bit crazy. :)

Haha, all in good fun bud.

I don't know if I'm very comfortable with your "Greater Fool" approach. Risky, what if you get stuck with Stephon Marbury? You might end up recreating the Knicks. You'll need a locker room with padded walls.

Five-ofan
05-03-2006, 11:59 AM
If you say you would rather have artest than dirk for a team you are building then you should prefer him to dirk. That said if you go to the kings and offer dirk for artest and cap filler they accept in an instant and dont play artest the rest of this series so that he doesnt get hurt before they can pull off that deal this offseason.

u2sarajevo
05-03-2006, 12:02 PM
t

Jeremiah
05-03-2006, 12:26 PM
...

Jeremiah
05-03-2006, 12:33 PM
...

Five-ofan
05-03-2006, 12:53 PM
I do agree that the mavs would be horrendously worse off with artest than dirk(i think they would win maybe 48 games) but i just dont see how you could possibly think you are better off building around Artest than Dirk or wade or Kobe or duncan or.....

sixeightmkw
05-03-2006, 01:00 PM
just a note, Artest is not in the top 5 in defensive rating for this year.

Jeremiah
05-03-2006, 01:04 PM
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Male30Dan
05-03-2006, 01:21 PM
just a note, Artest is not in the top 5 in defensive rating for this year.

I think you hang your opinion on that website a bit too much...

With that said, Jeremiah, you are CRAZY! :)

sixeightmkw
05-03-2006, 01:26 PM
I think you hang your opinion on that website a bit too much...

With that said, Jeremiah, you are CRAZY! :)
Then I am included with everyone else. It is the premer site for basketball stats.

Male30Dan
05-03-2006, 01:32 PM
No, I didn't say that you shouldn't weigh it into your opinion at all, but you act like Kobe or LeBron aren't amazing offensively because they aren't on a top 5 list... Then you insinuate that Artest isn't a top 5 defender becasue he isn't on that list...

Sure, it factors in, but it shouldn't be THE deciding factor. I challenge you to get everyone else to agree that it is. If you don't think Artest is a top 5 defender, you my friend, are as crazy as Jeremiah for wanting to select him #2 overall.

sixeightmkw
05-03-2006, 01:47 PM
I am not using it as the only factor. I just put that as a note. People are on here saying he is THE elite defensive player. I don't think he is. I think he is a very good defender, probably one of the top 5, but in no way ELITE like some people say he is. And I cerntainly would not say he is one of the best overall playersin the NBA. He is a solid basketball player. When you are elite, you totally shut down the opposing teams best offensive player. Look at my posts above in this thread. Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, Melo, Marion, Redd, and so on and so on have torched Sac when they have played them this year. And not to mention, the second threat on each of these teams has torched them as well. Odom, Howard, Bell, Simmons. I could really care less anymore. If people want to take hime, be my guest. I just hope you never become a GM>

Male30Dan
05-03-2006, 02:03 PM
I am not using it as the only factor. I just put that as a note. People are on here saying he is THE elite defensive player. I don't think he is. I think he is a very good defender, probably one of the top 5, but in no way ELITE like some people say he is. And I cerntainly would not say he is one of the best overall playersin the NBA. He is a solid basketball player. When you are elite, you totally shut down the opposing teams best offensive player. Look at my posts above in this thread. Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, Melo, Marion, Redd, and so on and so on have torched Sac when they have played them this year. And not to mention, the second threat on each of these teams has torched them as well. Odom, Howard, Bell, Simmons. I could really care less anymore. If people want to take hime, be my guest. I just hope you never become a GM>

68, I'm not trying to knock you man, I just saw a pattern between those two threads so I pointed it out. I personally do believe he is an elite defender. Guys torch other elite defenders though, as it does happen. Few here would disagree with Bowen being a great defender when he isn't dirty; however, Bonzi is making him his bitch... You just have to REALLY make it hard on your opponent and a lot of it is matchups, (Bonzi is too strong for Bowen)...

And how can you say he is not one of the best players in the NBA. He is the best player on an NBA franchise that is in the playoffs pushing the Spurs to the brink... Give him some respect man...

u2sarajevo
05-03-2006, 02:05 PM
i

Male30Dan
05-03-2006, 02:06 PM
All I know is look at the 180 Sacramento did when he arrived... That should tell you a little about his importance to the team!

sixeightmkw
05-03-2006, 02:38 PM
yes, they turned around their season from 18-25 to 25-14, a 7 game improvement. But they also got Wells back from his little stint of not playing at the same time. But, anyway you look at it, they did turn around their season.

Male30Dan
05-03-2006, 02:49 PM
yes, they turned around their season from 18-25 to 25-14, a 7 game improvement. But they also got Wells back from his little stint of not playing at the same time. But, anyway you look at it, they did turn around their season.

Well, they were 10-15 with Bonzi prior to him going down, so I certainly don't see him as the reason the season turned around. Regardless, I think we both know that Artest was VERY important to that turnaround.

spreedom
05-03-2006, 02:58 PM
I'm actually willing to bet he was misquoted here.. does anyone else remember when he was on Quite Frankly right before the season and said he was probably only a top 30 player?

orangedays
05-03-2006, 03:41 PM
He wasn't misquoted.

CMI: Chris Myers with controversial Ron Artest (Linkage (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5421576))
/ FOX Sports Net

Sacramento Kings forward Ron Artest has earned his reputation for being one of the NBA's most controversial and unpredictable players, starting with his involvement in the 2004 Pacers-Pistons brawl, continuing with his subsequent season-long suspension and culminating with his decision to force his way out of Indiana. However, Artest has quickly made a positive impact on the Kings as one of its leading scorers and brought a new defensive toughness to the team.

Now, Chris Myers sits down with Artest as he discusses his reasons for leaving the Pacers, his newfound happiness playing with the Kings and how he once broke Michael Jordan's ribs in a pick-up game.

Since he joined the team, Artest has helped catapult the Kings from draft lottery status to having a legitimate shot at capturing the No. 5 playoff seed in the Western Conference. Artest's hard-nosed play has rubbed off on his teammates and Kings' coaches are praising his lockdown defense and his ability to easily blend in with his new teammates. Myers talks with Artest about his new squad and whether his addition to the team gives the Kings a legitimate shot at a deep playoff run.

Excerpts from CMI: Ron Artest

"I think I'm in the top two. Pick whomever else you want. But I think I'm in that category."
- Ron Artest, when asked to name the NBA's best player

Artest (being with the Sacramento Kings): "It is not necessarily ‘happy to be out of Indiana,' but I am happy to be in Sacramento if that makes any sense. I had a lot of good times in Indiana, but I'm definitely happy. It's one of my best moments being an NBA player, being in Sacramento…Mike Bibby has been nothing but a friend and all the guys are the same way. It's been a joy being around the Sacramento Kings."

Artest (reasons for leaving the Pacers): "A lot of things led up to me just wanting a change and I probably went about it the wrong way…it was unprofessional…I could have went about it a different way, but I think it's working out for the better.."

Artest (whether he would still be with Indiana if the 2004 brawl never occurred): "Oh yeah, definitely. It would've been nothing but good times. There would have been no brawl. There would have been no frustration on my part. My attitude about playing basketball, the way I play and the way I approach games is different from a lot of other players, so I had a lot of other incidences before the brawl and the brawl just added onto it."

Artest (on being suspended): "It wasn't fair at all. You look back at the days Larry Bird used to fight Charles Barkley. The NBA was built on that and guys still talk about that on TNT…it still wasn't like I started trouble. It was like somebody started trouble with me, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't like I went into the stands because someone was talking to me. Someone threw something at me so I was pissed off."

Artest (playing against Kobe Bryant): "I love playing against him. He's got a really good offensive game. He's playing really good defense these days. I remember a couple years back he was averaging like 35 or 40 points in a 10 game stretch, and I came to L.A. and he had 18 points, you know. So I was like, ‘Man, where's my greatness?'"