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orangedays
03-21-2006, 12:26 PM
I keep reading about how talented Darius Miles is (he has gotten more press than superior players such as Jason Richardson or Ricky Davis). Al Harrington was a 'big' free agent pick-up for the Hawks and was supposed to breakout in Atlanta after being stuck behind J.O. in Indiana (his numbers are up but not mind-blowing). What happened to the superstardom these guys promised? Maybe it's the teams/markets they play on/in? Maybe they just don't have 'heart'? This has always been something that puzzled me - because these players are not prospects who just fizzled out (a la Kwame Brown, Marcus Fizer). They have played in the league for a number of years (and people still talk about their tantalizing talent), yet they have failed to make an impact (at least on par with expectations).

Please share your thoughts on how good these guys really are. Also, if you can think of any other players who had the makings of being an impact player after a couple of years but instead just, kinda stopped getting better - please bring them up (off the top of my head, players like Kenyon Martin, Bobby Simmons, Bonzi Wells, Quentin Richardson).

Flip41
03-21-2006, 01:47 PM
Stromile Swift
Keith Van Horn
Shawn Badly

Anyway Darius is still pretty young and doesnt seem to work on his game too much from what I can see of his jump shot. Which is not that hard to work on I might add. I guess we will see about this guy. He was stuck in Clipland and now has a different coach so who knows.

Arne
03-21-2006, 02:04 PM
Stromile Swift
Keith Van Horn
Shawn Badly

Anyway Darius is still pretty young and doesnt seem to work on his game too much from what I can see of his jump shot. Which is not that hard to work on I might add. I guess we will see about this guy. He was stuck in Clipland and now has a different coach so who knows.
Jordan worked on his 3pt-shot. Did he really get that much better? No. And Jordan was someone who worked hard every practise.

So I think it's a bit unfair to judge someone just by watching his shot. Just look at Parker.

Flip41
03-21-2006, 02:30 PM
So what exactly do you think he has been working on Arne? All I did was just give my answer to the question. I gave an example of something to practice and when I see his shot it doesnt look too good. I know the guy is a high flyer and can finish. But by now the guy should be able to hit the 15-20 footer. By the way, Parker has been working on his shot and it's looking better. Also I didnt judge him. I just took a quick assessment of Miles's game and that is one of the holes that I found.

Flip41
03-21-2006, 03:08 PM
You know Arne on second thought maybe I was judgeing Miles. I don't mind judgeing players, but isn't that what most people on this board or any other board do? Look at Finley for example. Many people ragged on him and judged him for not working on his dribble in the off season. Or Damp. Many people have hated him and his contract. (not me, it aint my money) But isn't that judgeing? Quick to judge is just something that keeps sports alive. I am sorry for lieing and saying that I didn't judge him. But in miles's case, maybe he only works on his dunks. But when I see that a player has not developed a jump shot of some substance by year 4 in the L. That tells me that he isn't spending enough extra time in the gym working on it. Good day Mate

Scoobay
03-21-2006, 11:17 PM
Jordan worked on his 3pt-shot. Did he really get that much better? No. And Jordan was someone who worked hard every practise.

So I think it's a bit unfair to judge someone just by watching his shot. Just look at Parker.

True, Jordan never did become a great 3pt shooter but his midrange game became dominant thru his had work and he diversified his game. So there was improvement in shooting even if he didn't become a great 3pt shooter (bringing the line in did help of course). MJ is kind of a tough example though being the best or one of the best ever... tough standard to have when talking about Darius Miles of all people.

That being said I always think about two great centers - Hakeem and Shaq. Hakeem was a pretty bad FT shooter coming in but improved to be a very respectable FT shooter - mid 70's I believe. Shaq on the other hand hasn't even sniffed 60% most of the time much less 70%.


**(off the top of my head, players like Kenyon Martin, Bobby Simmons, Bonzi Wells, Quentin Richardson).**

hmmmm, didn't Bobby Simmons win most improved last year? sure his numbers are down some but i didn't think anyone was expecting him to become elite all of a sudden.

rakesh.s
03-22-2006, 12:12 AM
darius miles was playing pretty well last season and this season before his knee injury.

He was putting up shawn marion type numbers..i.e. 20 pts, 8-9 rb, 2+ stl, 2+ blocks

Now he's lost in the rotation and the blazers don't want him there.. He would be a perfect fit in Cleveland alongside lebron, but they had to go and trade him for jeff mcinnis a few years ago (ouch).

Quentin Richardson, Kenyon Martin, Al Harrington are all by-products of a system that maximized their potential. Q is a good off the bench player/3 pt shooter..he is no small forward which is what the knicks are trying to turn him into. Jason Kidd made Kenyon Martin look like the second coming. Now he's just a punk in Denver. Al Harrington is an off the bench player at best. Teams will go nowhere if he dominates the ball. Atlanta would be wise to let him go in the offseason.

Thespiralgoeson
03-22-2006, 01:14 AM
I think Darius would look pretty nice next to Howard and Darko in Orlando. There's plenty of teams out there that could use an athletic, high-flying wingman that can play defense. I remember hearing that New York was interested in him. They'd be a hell of a lot better off if they had traded for him instead of Jalen Rose. Detroit could also sure use a guy like him on their bench. Golden State is another team that would instantly improve, say if they replaced Dunleavy with Miles.

Dtownsfinest
03-22-2006, 12:53 PM
Miles is a damn good player. He's improved drastically over the years. I remember expecting him to be one of the rare high schoolers that goes straight to the NBA to flop. I never thought he'd blossom into the player he is now.

orangedays
03-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Miles has been in the league for 6 years and is still little more than an intriguing talent who can barely find his way into the starting line-up. He's no scrub but "damn good"? What makes you say that?

Arne
03-22-2006, 04:36 PM
True, Jordan never did become a great 3pt shooter but his midrange game became dominant thru his had work and he diversified his game. So there was improvement in shooting even if he didn't become a great 3pt shooter (bringing the line in did help of course). MJ is kind of a tough example though being the best or one of the best ever... tough standard to have when talking about Darius Miles of all people.

That being said I always think about two great centers - Hakeem and Shaq. Hakeem was a pretty bad FT shooter coming in but improved to be a very respectable FT shooter - mid 70's I believe. Shaq on the other hand hasn't even sniffed 60% most of the time much less 70%.
First, I was only talking about Jordans 3pt-shot and that it didn't improve although he is one of the hardest working people during the offseason. That's a fact. I didn't compare Miles to Jordan as a player, i only compared their shots and how some people just can't do something, no matter how hard they work.

Hakeem improved. True. But was it because he worked harder on it than Shaq? I'm not that sure about that. Shaq has had various shooting coaches and tried very hard over his career, but it just won't happen.

And there are other factors for shooting badly. Look at Erick Dampier, I remember hearing every offseason, how good he shoots that FT during the training. 230 out of 250 once if I recall it correctly, but in a game he's just so pumped up that he almost never shoots better than 65%.

Arne
03-22-2006, 04:44 PM
So what exactly do you think he has been working on Arne? All I did was just give my answer to the question. I gave an example of something to practice and when I see his shot it doesnt look too good. I know the guy is a high flyer and can finish. But by now the guy should be able to hit the 15-20 footer. By the way, Parker has been working on his shot and it's looking better. Also I didnt judge him. I just took a quick assessment of Miles's game and that is one of the holes that I found.

_____________

You know Arne on second thought maybe I was judgeing Miles. I don't mind judgeing players, but isn't that what most people on this board or any other board do? Look at Finley for example. Many people ragged on him and judged him for not working on his dribble in the off season. Or Damp. Many people have hated him and his contract. (not me, it aint my money) But isn't that judgeing? Quick to judge is just something that keeps sports alive. I am sorry for lieing and saying that I didn't judge him. But in miles's case, maybe he only works on his dunks. But when I see that a player has not developed a jump shot of some substance by year 4 in the L. That tells me that he isn't spending enough extra time in the gym working on it. Good day Mate


Parker is shooting one of the worst percentages in jump shots this year. His penetration, the floaters and lay ups make his FG-percentage look so good. His shot is actually falling worse than last year.

By the way, I guess you just didn't get my point. I was only saying that some people (like Miles) can work on their jump shot all they want, but it won't get that much better.

orangedays
03-22-2006, 04:48 PM
hmmmm, didn't Bobby Simmons win most improved last year? sure his numbers are down some but i didn't think anyone was expecting him to become elite all of a sudden.

Yes, he was the "Most Improved Player" in 2004-05. I didn't suggest Simmons should be elite, just questioning why we see the drop-off that we do this year (v. last). He went from 16.4 pts, 5.9 reb to 13.9, 4.8. He was one of the more highly-coveted free agents this past offseason and was supposed to be a major pick-up for the Bucks as a complement to Redd, Bogut, and Ford. But he's played fewer minutes on a team that is not as deep at the swing positions as the Clips were last year, and has more or less dropped off the radar.

orangedays
03-24-2006, 04:39 PM
Drama heats up, and Blazers lose
Darius Miles misses practice and is benched, and Amare Stoudemire ignites the Suns
Friday, March 24, 2006
JASON QUICK
The Oregonian

PHOENIX -- When this little soap opera called the Trail Blazers signed off earlier this week, it was with its despondent coach, Nate McMillan, lamenting how there always seems to be "drama" intertwined within the team's story line of losses.

Now, after Thursday's latest episode -- a 125-108 loss at Phoenix -- this season series has been reduced to nothing short of a comedy.

Darius Miles, one of the team's co-stars and the subject of much criticism, was benched for the entire game Thursday because he did not show up to the team's 10 a.m. shootaround.

"I overslept," Miles said.

Without their second leading scorer, the Blazers were shorthanded all night, especially as players racked up personal fouls, causing McMillan to constantly shuffle in tired players who were forced to play out of position.

The absence of Miles, who sat in uniform at the end of the bench, was compounded when leading scorer Zach Randolph struggled through foul trouble and double teams, finishing with four points on 2 of 6 shooting and three rebounds in 21 minutes.

The final score could have been worse -- the Suns beat the Blazers by 45 in December -- had it not been for standout nights from Viktor Khryapa (22 points and 12 rebounds) and rookie Jarrett Jack (20 points), both of whom set career highs in points.

So while the Pacific Division-leading Suns (46-21) celebrated the return of Amare Stoudemire, who in 19 minutes produced 20 points and nine rebounds in his first action of the season after undergoing microfracture knee surgery in October, the Blazers were left wondering where their supposed star-in-waiting would lead them next.

"I've never, as a player or as a coach, seen that," McMillan said. "I've had players come late, but never miss an entire shootaround. You know, that . . . that . . . there's no excuse for that."

Miles' missed shootaround comes one game after he did not score or grab a rebound in 17 minutes against Milwaukee on Monday. During that game, McMillan pulled Miles with 11:13 left in the fourth quarter, after which Miles walked off the court and into the locker room, where team officials said he was suffering from a bruised eye.

The following is an exchange with Miles after Thursday's game as he sat in front of his locker:

What happened today?

I got up about 8:45 a.m., put on my clothes . . . the bus (to shootaround) was like at 9:45 a.m. -- so I laid down, watched TV, and woke up, and it was like 11:30 a.m.

Why were you so tired?

I wasn't really tired. I don't know.

So then what happened?

I went and got something to eat, then came over early with (Steve) Blake and Martell (Webster) around 4 p.m., got some shots up, and before the game (McMillan) told me I wasn't going to play.

You didn't talk to McMillan before then? You didn't feel the need to apologize, or tell him what happened?

I was going to tell him before the game. But then he came and talked to me.

How do you feel things are going for you?

Fine. I'm cool.

Really?

Yeah, I'm good.

The reason these questions are asked is because people expect so much of you.

Nah, you've been on my (butt) since the beginning of the season. I got past that stage last year. I'm a married man now. That (stuff) don't even get to me.

But when you signed your six-year, $48 million contract, that carries a certain responsibility.

You're right. You're right.

Do you feel you are living up to that responsibility?

Yeah, I'm living up to my responsibilities. What more am I supposed to do?

Well, not get benched for not showing up, do more than zero point and zero rebounds . . .

I took four shots that game (Monday against Milwaukee). Whose fault is that then? Is it my fault I got four shots?

Then go and get seven rebounds, or four assists.

Check my minutes.

You played 17 minutes.

Thank you. There ain't nothing to talk about. Me being productive . . . man, I got four shots. But I ain't mad about that, there ain't nothing to get mad about. It's just the way that game was going. It's like tonight with Z-Bo (Randolph). Z-Bo couldn't work out of the post tonight, he was getting double-teamed every time.

It was just one night, . . . guess I didn't get the shots. I didn't get the ball like I did the night before (when he had 26 points on Saturday in Milwaukee). I didn't get the open shots. Ain't no big deal, we learn from it as a team, keep moving, play the next game.

That next game is tonight in the Rose Garden against the defending champion San Antonio Spurs. McMillan said he will play Miles. What will Blazers fans see?

Only the next episode of this soap opera will tell.

Notes:

McMillan said the team is considering sending second-year center Ha Seung Jin to the Fort Worth Flyers of the Development League next week. He said the plan would be to have the 7-foot-3 center play two or three games then return to the Blazers. Ha, who hasn't played in the last nine games, said he would welcome the move. "I need more playing time, so I have to go to D-League, and I think that is good for me," Ha said Thursday. It would be the second time the Blazers have utilized the Development League; in January they sent rookies Martell Webster and Sergei Monia to Fort Worth for two weeks. . . . Center Theo Ratliff (left ankle) did not accompany the team to Phoenix.