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kriD
09-19-2006, 06:02 AM
Free agent Wells talks with Rockets

Spending limit makes pursuing guard a long shot

By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Free agent Bonzi Wells met with Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy and general manager Carroll Dawson on Monday at Toyota Center as the Rockets stepped up their long-shot pursuit of the veteran guard.

Though the Rockets are limited by the salary cap and some of their free-agent spending this summer, Wells has clearly not ruled out the Rockets while also considering the Nuggets, Heat and Bobcats.

Wells, who went from expecting to be a top free agent to searching for a place to land two weeks before training camps open, replaced longtime agent William Phillips last month, with the switch to Merle Scott forcing a delay in the already protracted process.

Wells, who turns 30 on Wednesday, averaged 13.6 points and 7.7 rebounds with the Kings last season and 23.2 points and 12 rebounds in the playoffs against the Spurs.

After earning $8 million last season, he turned down a five-year, $36 million offer from the Kings, a strong indication that an offer of a mid-level exception would not work. The Kings instead signed John Salmons, and the majority of teams over the cap spent their mid-level exceptions.

The Rockets have just $2.1 million of their mid-level exception remaining to offer unless they can work out a sign-and-trade deal with the Kings. The Rockets have a $4.2 million trade exception in which they could sign a free agent for as much as $4.2 million and send only a draft choice, but as with any sign-and-trade arrangement, that would require an agreement with the Kings.

Wells was the 11th pick of the 1998 NBA Draft out of Ball State and was immediately traded by the Pistons to the Trail Blazers, where he played five-plus seasons before he was traded to the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies sent him to the Kings for Bobby Jackson and Greg Ostertag.

alby
09-19-2006, 08:41 AM
would not be a bad pickup for them imo

rafer
bonzi
tmac
battier
yao

dalmations202
09-19-2006, 03:23 PM
It would make them interesting at least.

fluid.forty.one
09-19-2006, 03:24 PM
They still wont beat the Mavs so *yawn*. The Heat would worry me a lot though if they somehow pulled that off.

dalmations202
09-19-2006, 03:27 PM
They still wont beat the Mavs so *yawn*. The Heat would worry me a lot though if they somehow pulled that off.

If they stay healthy, they have a shot at the Mavs. A slim shot, but a shot never the less.

Battier on Dirk and Damp on Yao would be interesting. Tmac is the wildcard - and like Kobe, and AI always will be. He can win games for you by himself, or lose them for you by himself.

alby
09-19-2006, 11:17 PM
yao would make the 2nd best center in the L look silly

Tokey41
09-19-2006, 11:21 PM
I would still hate for him to land in Housten... we have to put up with enough crap in the Southwest without making the Rockets that much better. I hope he lands in Denver, or the Bobcats... though I dont see why he would do that.

nashtymavsfan13
09-19-2006, 11:34 PM
Yeah, the Rockets are a solid team, and if they get Bonzi then they become a little scary. I'd prefer him to end up in the East.

kriD
09-20-2006, 02:14 AM
Bobcats interested in free-agent swingman

RICK BONNELL
rbonnell@charlotteobserver.com

Is Bonzi Wells in the Charlotte Bobcats' future?

Bobcats coach-general manager Bernie Bickerstaff confirmed Tuesday he plans discussions with Wells' representatives sometime this week to gauge the free-agent swingman's interest in signing here.

Wells, 30, averaged 13.6 points and 7.7 rebounds last season for the Sacramento Kings. He's also been linked to the Houston Rockets, Denver Nuggets and Miami Heat. Since scoring at the wing positions is a clear need for the Bobcats, Wells' skill set would be a good fit. Also, the Bobcats are several million under the salary cap, so they could seemingly make a competitive offer.

The greater question is a roster spot. The Bobcats already have 15 players under contract, plus a qualifying offer of about $3 million to restricted free agent Melvin Ely. Bickerstaff indicated that resolving Ely's situation probably takes precedence over any other move between now and the start of training camp Tuesday in Wilmington.

alby
09-21-2006, 09:04 AM
if mj could, he would sign him

thewillis12
09-21-2006, 11:54 AM
If they stay healthy, they have a shot at the Mavs. A slim shot, but a shot never the less.

Battier on Dirk and Damp on Yao would be interesting. Tmac is the wildcard - and like Kobe, and AI always will be. He can win games for you by himself, or lose them for you by himself.

battier on dirk? remember what happened when battier tried to guard dirk in the playoffs? hmm sweep?

fluid.forty.one
09-21-2006, 12:23 PM
Yeah, Dirks stats against Battier was nuts. Not worried about him at all.

tmac1yao11
09-21-2006, 02:24 PM
Yeah, Dirks stats against Battier was nuts. Not worried about him at all.

Well what about if Tmac guards Dirk then? How was his stats against TMAC? :)

Flacolaco
09-21-2006, 02:31 PM
This would give them a nice cute little team down there, on paper.

Cant speak for chemistry or mental toughness of course.

I too would prefer to see him in the East.

Nash13
09-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Well what about if Tmac guards Dirk then? How was his stats against TMAC? :)

23/11. And apparently enough to get his team out of the 1st round. :)

Arne
09-21-2006, 04:56 PM
Well what about if Tmac guards Dirk then? How was his stats against TMAC? :)
Dirk had a the flu... During that regular season however he scored over 50 against him...

fluid.forty.one
09-21-2006, 06:39 PM
Dirk had a the flu... During that regular season however he scored over 50 against him...

Arne shh, you know the flu isn't a good excuse.


Unless you're wade I mean ;)

alby
09-21-2006, 07:19 PM
There's no one person that can guard NBA superstars consistently, but if the overall talent (defensive talent) increase for a team, it'll be tougher on the supporting casts around the stars which is what it comes down to.

mary
09-22-2006, 10:08 AM
Well what about if Tmac guards Dirk then? How was his stats against TMAC? :)

I don't remember...the Game 7, 40 point ass-beating kinda made Dirk's individual stats irrelevant at that point. :D

Drbio
09-22-2006, 04:09 PM
This would give them a nice cute little team down there, on paper.

Cant speak for chemistry or mental toughness of course.

I too would prefer to see him in the East.

Houston teams always play better on paper. ;)

Male30Dan
09-22-2006, 04:23 PM
Houston teams always play better on paper. ;)

Hahahahaha... Genius!!!

fluid.forty.one
09-22-2006, 05:24 PM
Houston teams always play better on paper. ;)

That is EXACTLY my reasoning for not being scared of them.

alby
09-24-2006, 12:29 AM
its not being scared or whatnot, because imo the mavs are the best team in the west.. it'll just make things alot more challenging and tougher.. where the whole cliche of "every game counts" becomes more magnified

MightyToine
09-24-2006, 03:16 AM
Better pray miami *doesn't* acquire Bonzi 'cause as someone astutely pointed out, getting someone who increases the overall TEAM DEFENSE of the Heat would mean more trouble for everyone else(Cuban, his blog, and Mavs fans included.... :D )

Five-ofan
09-24-2006, 11:22 AM
If houston gets him, they would be better off going after reggie evans or someone like that though im not a big evans fan and then convincing tmac to be a distributor and not a scorer. Turn him back into Raptor tmac on defense. It would take alot to get him to buy in but if he did, that team would scare the hell out of me...

Tmac
Wells
Battier
Evans
Ming

Let Yao carry the scoring until tmac takes over later(much like the lakers with kobe and shaq) and let tmac play pg while turning him back into the great defender he is quite capable of being. THAT would scare the crap out of me. Rolling with Rafer, Tmac, Battier, Wells, Ming? Not so much...

alby
09-24-2006, 11:35 AM
either way, they are a good team when healthy

Dirkenstien
09-25-2006, 10:19 AM
Yeah they are a good team when healthy and acquiring Wells would just make them better. Let's hope he's Charlotte bound.

alby
09-27-2006, 11:28 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2605443

alby
09-27-2006, 11:28 PM
tmac wants him

djb
09-27-2006, 11:37 PM
ESPN is reporting that Bonzi will sign with the Rockets for 2yrs at $5 mil. Wow.

mary
09-27-2006, 11:38 PM
sucks

what did the kings offer him again?

nashtymavsfan13
09-28-2006, 12:03 AM
I'd feel much better if he went to the Bobcats. I'm not afraid of the Rockets, but you can't just discount them now.

AxdemxO
09-28-2006, 12:06 AM
I kno most of you think that if he signs with the Rockets its not a big deal...But Umm if Tmac and Yao are healthy with the addition of Battier and Wells i got a feeling that we could be seeing them in the WCF....They got a solid team if this goes through.

chumdawg
09-28-2006, 12:08 AM
That should be a big uh-oh for the Mavs. Damn, our division is tough.

dalmations202
09-28-2006, 06:18 AM
Can't imagine teams coming in to face the Texas triangle now. Many will just call that a 3 game loss. Most will feel happy, if they come away with one win.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 07:57 AM
theres no way that 2 years for 5 mil is right. Thats less than what greg freakin buckner got. I am even more pissed that we signed buckner now. As for the rockets, im still not scared if they really think they are gonna roll with battier at pf...

kriD
09-28-2006, 08:13 AM
Agent: Wells agrees to two-year deal with Rockets

By Ric Bucher
ESPN.com

Bonzi Wells, the last significant free-agent talent on the market, agreed to a two-year, $5 million deal with the Houston Rockets on Wednesday, according to his agent.

Wells holds a player option for the second year and fully plans to re-enter the free agent market next summer.

"This isn't about the money, this is about being in the right place," said Wells' agent, Merle Scott of BDA Sports.

After turning down a five-year, $36 million offer from the Sacramento Kings last month, Wells fired his agent, Bill Phillips, and hired Scott a few weeks ago. Attempts to work a sign-and-trade that might've allowed Wells to match or improve the Kings' offer failed because Sacramento refused to take back any salaries after signing John Salmons with the money refused by Wells.

"We never talked about the Sacramento offer because that was gone and that wasn't going to change," Scott said.

Wells' loss is clearly Houston's gain. Wells left both Portland and Memphis after being portrayed as a malcontent, but his 13.6 points and 7.7 rebounds in 52 games with the Kings last season and a strong first-round playoff performance against San Antonio restored some of his luster. Wells and Ron Artest were a devastating forward combination and Artest personally lobbied for the Kings to re-sign Wells. Sacramento held Wells' Bird rights, meaning they could've paid him whatever they chose but drew the line with their offer slightly better than the mid-level exception.

Wells, a source said, originally wanted Phillips to land him a $50 million deal.

Denver, Boston, Charlotte and Miami also made offers but the Rockets did the best job of convincing Wells he was needed. The recruiting contingent included Yao Ming, GM Carroll Dawson, assistant coach Tom Thibodeau, coach Jeff Van Gundy, personnel director Keith Jones and Tracy McGrady, who called Bonzi directly to make his pitch.

The Rockets go into training camp next week with a potential starting lineup of Rafer Alston, McGrady, Shane Battier (acquired in a draft-night trade for Stromile Swift and No. 8 pick Rudy Gay), Juwan Howard and Yao, with Wells as the sixth man, but if Wells plays as he did against the Spurs he could challenge Battier and Howard for one of the starting forward spots.

"Bonzi doesn't care about starting," Scott said. "He just wants to be some place he can contribute."

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 08:19 AM
this shows a couple of things, one he needs to fire his agent for his vast overvalueing of the market. 2 we overpaid for greg buckner. 3. you shouldnt turn down 37 million dollars unless you are a legit superstar. I mean its 37 million dollars. Not that 5 is anything to sneeze at but 32 million is a huge difference...

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 08:35 AM
Guys I'm calling it right now. Even if they are all healthy, the rockets do NOT get out of the first round. Call me crazy if you want but I'll be sure to bump this around playoff time.

alby
09-28-2006, 09:32 AM
thats not going out on the limb imo

Male30Dan
09-28-2006, 09:41 AM
Guys I'm calling it right now. Even if they are all healthy, the rockets do NOT get out of the first round. Call me crazy if you want but I'll be sure to bump this around playoff time.

If they are all healthy, I could see them advancing to the 2nd round, but it is a stretch. If they get the 6th seed, I could very easily see them dismissing the winner of the poo division in our conference; however, if they get any other seed 4-5 or 7-8, (it should be safe to assume they aren't winning this division), they will be playing the 1st/2nd place team in our division - Dallas/SA - or Phoenix. Tough road if you ask me. Everyone needs to pray for the 3rd/6th seed, as that is really the only winnable series. SA, Dallas, and Phoenix WILL be in the 2nd round.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 10:39 AM
If they are all healthy, I could see them advancing to the 2nd round, but it is a stretch. If they get the 6th seed, I could very easily see them dismissing the winner of the poo division in our conference; however, if they get any other seed 4-5 or 7-8, (it should be safe to assume they aren't winning this division), they will be playing the 1st/2nd place team in our division - Dallas/SA - or Phoenix. Tough road if you ask me. Everyone needs to pray for the 3rd/6th seed, as that is really the only winnable series. SA, Dallas, and Phoenix WILL be in the 2nd round.
if they get the 5th seed they will get winner of the crap division. Remember they changed the seeding system to the 3 division winners and the best second place team are seeded according to record for the top 4. IMO thats actually a DUMBER system than we just had but it would change that scenario...

chumdawg
09-28-2006, 10:44 AM
If they are all healthy, I could see them advancing to the 2nd round, but it is a stretch. If they get the 6th seed, I could very easily see them dismissing the winner of the poo division in our conference; however, if they get any other seed 4-5 or 7-8, (it should be safe to assume they aren't winning this division), they will be playing the 1st/2nd place team in our division - Dallas/SA - or Phoenix. Tough road if you ask me. Everyone needs to pray for the 3rd/6th seed, as that is really the only winnable series. SA, Dallas, and Phoenix WILL be in the 2nd round.I think it's too early to be making such blanket statements. I can certainly imagine Houston taking second place in the division, if not contending for first.

Dtownsfinest
09-28-2006, 11:35 AM
I think people forget how dominant Yao and T-Mac are when healthy. If healthy they are by far the most dominant duo in the league. No one even compares.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 11:40 AM
I think people forget how dominant Yao and T-Mac are when healthy. If healthy they are by far the most dominant duo in the league. No one even compares.
Shaq and wade???

#1MavsFan
09-28-2006, 11:46 AM
If tmac is really healthy like he claims and yao doesn't get hurt again , they're serious title contenders imo. Have we forgetton just how good TMAC was? If he's healthy he is a top 5 player if no better.

Flacolaco
09-28-2006, 12:11 PM
So what we're saying here, is that the Mavs could possibly finish 3rd in the division? Because there is no way in hell or here on gods green earth that the Spurs arent finishing 1 or 2, and now we have all these nice things to say about Houston?

i still dont think they can get it all together long enough to make a good run...

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 12:16 PM
T-Mac hasn't proven anything...ever.

And you have to realize how unsure their health is. People keep saying "if they are healthy", but I don't see it happening. Someone thing will happen to them, it always does. And if it doesnt they still dont compare to the mavs or the spurs.

#1MavsFan
09-28-2006, 12:19 PM
T-Mac hasn't proven anything...ever.

And you have to realize how unsure their health is. People keep saying "if they are healthy", but I don't see it happening. Someone thing will happen to them, it always does. And if it doesnt they still dont compare to the mavs or the spurs.
uhh what are you talking about? "hasn't proven anything...ever."??? Did you not see him light us up in the playoffs a couple seasons agao and single handely keep the rockets afloat? The man is a superstar when healthy, no way around it. Imagine if he had Yao in his current state, Battier, and Wells a couple seasons ago.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 12:23 PM
uhh what are you talking about? "hasn't proven anything...ever."??? Did you not see him light us up in the playoffs a couple seasons agao and single handely keep the rockets afloat? The man is a superstar when healthy, no way around it. Imagine if he had Yao in his current state, Battier, and Wells a couple seasons ago.

Which round did he light up again?

Oh and which round did he not get out of?

Exactly, he hasn't proven anything ever. How many times has he been bounced out of the first round, and how many times has he gotten past it? He suffers from a severe case of KG syndrome.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 12:25 PM
To clarify: I don't think he's a bad basketball player. He is VERY good. That doesn't mean he is "proven" in the playoffs though.

#1MavsFan
09-28-2006, 12:25 PM
IMO its absurd to say that he hasn't proven anything since he hasn't gotten out of the 1rst round due to the fact he lacked the players around him. He's been a stud in the playoffs, and now that he has a team around him it could get scary.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 12:30 PM
Okay well I promise T-Mac will not get out of the first round. Healthy or not.

You're more than welcome to bump this thread if I'm wrong.

#1MavsFan
09-28-2006, 12:31 PM
Alright will do.

nikeball
09-28-2006, 12:47 PM
I believe T-Mac and Yao when they played together in the 2005-2006 season the Rockets had a combined record of 21-10. That sounds pretty good in my book. With all these new additions and with a healthy T-mac and Yao, the Rockets will be a very formidable team.

If anyone watched Bonzi Wells last year (although he was playing in a contract season), he is a very capable scorer and rebounder.

Shane Battier is an awesome glue man, who does all the dirty work. I dont think he can stop duncan/garnett/dirk .. the bigger power forwards in the league.

I believe their starting 5 is one of the best in basketball...

their bench is a huge question however, they still have some talent

young and capable back up pg in lutherhead, vspan..lit USA up in world tourney, old man howard and deke, kirk.


I believe the rockets, without injury, is a top team in the league. Either way, I see the rankings like this for SW division:

1. Mavs - obvious reasons
2. Spurs - TD and gang should be healthy and that is a big problem
3. Rockets - without injuries
4. Hornets - nice off season additions in peja and chandler
5. memphis - pau out for several months is a huge blow imo.

Dirkenstien
09-28-2006, 01:06 PM
Our division is scary. We can all look forward to seeing some ultra competitive competition this season.

david12sfa
09-28-2006, 02:08 PM
This just might bring Houston their 3rd ring!

Drbio
09-28-2006, 02:23 PM
This just might bring Houston their 3rd ring!

Wake up.....someone get this man a reality check.

Flacolaco
09-28-2006, 02:41 PM
the division really is going to be tough.

At least Gasol got hurt.....

you know....so we dont have to look at his ugly beard. not because anybody is afraid of him and the grizz....

Underdog
09-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Our division is scary. We can all look forward to seeing some ultra competitive competition this season.


That should make for some good games - barring injuries, of course...

TheDiggler
09-28-2006, 03:15 PM
Guys keep in mind that Houston was already a good team before injuries.....Injuries happen and they ran into some bad luck. They took the Mavs to 7 games 2 seasons ago and scared the hell out of them. All some of you remember is that game 7 blow out and the Mav's deserved to win....better team. This Houston team is dangerous even before the signing of Wells. I guaruntee that Greg Pop and Avery J are VERY concerned and will openly admit it. The Southwest Division is serious! The Hornets and Memphis are no joke either.

david12sfa
09-28-2006, 03:56 PM
Thank you! Dallas, Houston and the Spurs can all win the west. As to DrBio's statement to wake up, you need to stop drinking the kool-aid and realize that even winning the divison is not a lock for the Mav's

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 04:01 PM
Thank you! Dallas, Houston and the Spurs can all win the west. As to DrBio's statement to wake up, you need to stop drinking the kool-aid and realize that even winning the divison is not a lock for the Mav's
It might not be a lock that the mavs do win the division but it is a lock that the rockets dont get higher than 3rd...

Underdog
09-28-2006, 04:15 PM
It might not be a lock that the mavs do win the division but it is a lock that the rockets dont get higher than 3rd...


Id put smart money on that statement (um, furrit, not aginnit!)
;)

TheDiggler
09-28-2006, 04:19 PM
It might not be a lock that the mavs do win the division but it is a lock that the rockets dont get higher than 3rd...

How can you be so sure? Would Avery say that? Are you that cocky? Look, it was the Mav's year last year and they had their chance, just came up short. This year will be even harder to get back because the divison is even better than it was 2 years ago. The MavsARE the best team in the West.......The Mavs deserve that, but the margin is very,very slim. The Spurs are the Mavs alter ego and the Rockets are kinfolks. The Rockets are just as dangerous as the Suns, probably even more because of Yao and Tracy. It's going to be a fun season. The Mavs are the team to beat.

Underdog
09-28-2006, 04:29 PM
The Rockets are just as dangerous as the Suns, probably even more because of Yao and Tracy. It's going to be a fun season. The Mavs are the team to beat.


More dangerous because they're in our division... (athough injuries tend to wash speculation away...)

nashtymavsfan13
09-28-2006, 05:13 PM
Wait, so is it official yet?

Underdog
09-28-2006, 06:02 PM
Wait, so is it official yet?


I don't think so...

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 06:03 PM
How can you be so sure? Would Avery say that? Are you that cocky? Look, it was the Mav's year last year and they had their chance, just came up short. This year will be even harder to get back because the divison is even better than it was 2 years ago. The MavsARE the best team in the West.......The Mavs deserve that, but the margin is very,very slim. The Spurs are the Mavs alter ego and the Rockets are kinfolks. The Rockets are just as dangerous as the Suns, probably even more because of Yao and Tracy. It's going to be a fun season. The Mavs are the team to beat.
seeing as how i dont see the suns as much of a threat barring Amare making a deal with the devil, that really doesnt scare me. I think the rockets are a good team. I think they will win somewhere between 50-55 but they wont have a better record than the mavs and spurs.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 06:33 PM
It might not be a lock that the mavs do win the division but it is a lock that the rockets dont get higher than 3rd...

A "lock," really? SA is getting older and the Rox cast is much better than the team that took you guys to the 7th game without a dominant Yao. Personally, I can't wait until November 4th.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 06:34 PM
Wait, so is it official yet?

Official, signed, done deal.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 06:37 PM
A "lock," really? SA is getting older and the Rox cast is much better than the team that took you guys to the 7th game without a dominant Yao. Personally, I can't wait until November 4th.

Yao played pretty good in that series, I don't know what you're talking about. Heck he scored 33 in the 40 point loss.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 06:43 PM
Yao played pretty good in that series, I don't know what you're talking about. Heck he scored 33 in the 40 point loss.

He played pretty well in that series, but that was before two years of seasoning and the removal of a bone infection that he suffered from for years. Yao will be much more dominant this year and if TMac is healthy, we could very well go for 60+ wins and challenge both y'all and SA for the division.

The problem in that loss was not Yao or TMac, it was the supporting cast. This year, we have Battier and Wells in addition to a guy named Head who shot .482 from distance in November last year. We are far deeper than the team that took two games from y'all in Dallas two years ago and everyone in the league is going to have trouble with us.

I am not saying the Rox are a lock to win the division, but saying that they are locked into third place in the division is pure folly.

mavs7
09-28-2006, 06:47 PM
GO ROCKETS!....err mavs:o

Underdog
09-28-2006, 06:49 PM
He played pretty well in that series, but that was before two years of seasoning and the removal of a bone infection that he suffered from for years. Yao will be much more dominant this year and if TMac is healthy, we could very well go for 60+ wins and challenge both y'all and SA for the division.

The problem in that loss was not Yao or TMac, it was the supporting cast. This year, we have Battier and Wells in addition to a guy named Head who shot .482 from distance in November last year. We are far deeper than the team that took two games from y'all in Dallas two years ago and everyone in the league is going to have trouble with us.

I am not saying the Rox are a lock to win the division, but saying that they are locked into third place in the division is pure folly.


I see you folks out in Houston are still dipping your weed in formaldehyde...

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 06:52 PM
He played pretty well in that series, but that was before two years of seasoning and the removal of a bone infection that he suffered from for years. Yao will be much more dominant this year and if TMac is healthy, we could very well go for 60+ wins and challenge both y'all and SA for the division.

The problem in that loss was not Yao or TMac, it was the supporting cast. This year, we have Battier and Wells in addition to a guy named Head who shot .482 from distance in November last year. We are far deeper than the team that took two games from y'all in Dallas two years ago and everyone in the league is going to have trouble with us.

I am not saying the Rox are a lock to win the division, but saying that they are locked into third place in the division is pure folly.

IMO they will get the 3rd spot in the division (hardest division ever? seriously) but anything could happen. Hope to see you guys in the playoffs in the 2nd round. Childs play compared to this years 2nd round for us. We have a lot better defenders now so it will be interesting for Tmac, and Yao will have to deal with the 3 headed monster now. Even without all that I'm still not worried. You seem like a nice level headed fan though so welcome to the board.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 06:54 PM
I see you folks out in Houston are still dipping your weed in formaldehyde...

What exactly did I say that you find inaccurate?

Or are you merely able to disparage sources rather than disputing facts?

Underdog
09-28-2006, 06:58 PM
What exactly did I say that you find inaccurate?

Or are you merely able to disparage sources rather than disputing facts?


What facts??? This is the presaeson - a place for speculation alone... There aren't any facts! Bonzi Wells could get in a car wreck tomorrow & never play ball again... See you in November, chump...

(oh, and welcome to the MAVS boards...)

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 07:13 PM
IMO they will get the 3rd spot in the division (hardest division ever? seriously) but anything could happen.

It will definitely qualify as the hardest division ever. And you are right that anything could happen. Like I said, I am not predicting anything, merely making the comment that the Rockets will be tough to beat this year.


Hope to see you guys in the playoffs in the 2nd round.

I guess it could happen if y'all can hold down the 4th seed. ;)


Childs play compared to this years 2nd round for us.

Say that again in May.


We have a lot better defenders now so it will be interesting for Tmac, and Yao will have to deal with the 3 headed monster now.

Just like Dirk, nobody can shut TMac down when he is healthy. I don't care who you put on him, TMac will go off.

As far as Yao goes, you will need to put all three guys on him at the same time and I think league rules disallow having seven guys on the court at the same time. Yao averaged 26 and 12 after the all-star break (after the toe infection was removed) and will continue that kind of play this year.


Even without all that I'm still not worried. You seem like a nice level headed fan though so welcome to the board.

I wouldn't expect you to be worried yet. You can start on October 17th.

Thank you for the welcome, but I am a fairly rabid fan who won season tickets this year due to my rowdiness. However, I will never troll or insult people, even those who choose to live in Dallas. I keed, I keed.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 07:15 PM
What facts??? This is the presaeson - a place for speculation alone... There aren't any facts! Bonzi Wells could get in a car wreck tomorrow & never play ball again... See you in November, chump...

(oh, and welcome to the MAVS boards...)

It is good to meet a mavs fan who is so nice to newcomers and welcoming of other people.

Actually, we will see you October 17th, dude.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 07:23 PM
About the 2nd round thing, I was thinking it was possible for them to get the 4th seed. Nevermind.

My point about the 3 headed monster is that it's pretty obvious that Yao gets tired really easy, even when he's not injured. Having 3 athletic 7 footers pushing him around all the time could put a lot of wear and tear on him by the end of a series.

I wouldn't put that much emotion into preseason. Preseasons means absolutly nothing. If dallas went out and beat Houston by 50 points I wouldn't be any less worried about Houston, and vise versa. You know the difference of importance between regular season games and playoff games? The difference is even greater between preseason-regular season. Plus I expect both teams will not play their stars that much (yao/tmac are too injury prone for useless games, and Dirk is too tired)

See ya in Houston on Nov 4th. :)

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 07:34 PM
About the 2nd round thing, I was thinking it was possible for them to get the 4th seed. Nevermind.

I'm f***ing with you, Ted.


My point about the 3 headed monster is that it's pretty obvious that Yao gets tired really easy, even when he's not injured. Having 3 athletic 7 footers pushing him around all the time could put a lot of wear and tear on him by the end of a series.

Apparently, you didn't see any of Yao after the all-star break last year. He averaged over 35 minutes and was dominant through the fourth quarter. It really doesn't matter how many 7 footers you put on him in a series, he will do just fine.


I wouldn't put that much emotion into preseason. Preseasons means absolutly nothing. If dallas went out and beat Houston by 50 points I wouldn't be any less worried about Houston, and vise versa. You know the difference of importance between regular season games and playoff games? The difference is even greater between preseason-regular season. Plus I expect both teams will not play their stars that much (yao/tmac are too injury prone for useless games, and Dirk is too tired)

Agreed. I was just mentioning that we will have a preview in October. I will be very interested in the first quarter of that game and am looking forward to seeing how we compete with the best team in the WC.


See ya in Houston on Nov 4th. :)

I'll be there and if you are in the Toyota Center, there will be no missing the section I am in.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 08:08 PM
It will definitely qualify as the hardest division ever. And you are right that anything could happen. Like I said, I am not predicting anything, merely making the comment that the Rockets will be tough to beat this year.



I guess it could happen if y'all can hold down the 4th seed. ;)



Say that again in May.



Just like Dirk, nobody can shut TMac down when he is healthy. I don't care who you put on him, TMac will go off.

As far as Yao goes, you will need to put all three guys on him at the same time and I think league rules disallow having seven guys on the court at the same time. Yao averaged 26 and 12 after the all-star break (after the toe infection was removed) and will continue that kind of play this year.



I wouldn't expect you to be worried yet. You can start on October 17th.

Thank you for the welcome, but I am a fairly rabid fan who won season tickets this year due to my rowdiness. However, I will never troll or insult people, even those who choose to live in Dallas. I keed, I keed.
Tmac is extremely inconsistent. Its why he shoots the percentage he shoots. You are correct that when he is on he is unstoppable but he isnt nearly as dangerous over a full season as he is over a series. The rockets are a dangerous team in a series but there is essentially no chance they have a better record than the mavs in the regular season which is what we are discussing now. as for yao, i like him alot but his scoring is going back down. Tmac being out was a HUGE reason for his increased scoring.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:12 PM
Tmac is extremely inconsistent.

Since when? TMac is a 25 point per night scorer, a very good defender, and brings it every night. Saying he is "inconsistent" shows that you haven't seen TMac in action much.


Its why he shoots the percentage he shoots.

He shot a low percentage last year because he was injured. He is a career 44% shooter and will return to that form again this year.


You are correct that when he is on he is unstoppable but he isnt nearly as dangerous over a full season as he is over a series. The rockets are a dangerous team in a series but there is essentially no chance they have a better record than the mavs in the regular season which is what we are discussing now.

You mean like the seasons he singlehandedly took Orlando to the playoffs? Again you show that you haven't seen TMac much.


as for yao, i like him alot but his scoring is going back down. Tmac being out was a HUGE reason for his increased scoring.

That was one reason, but Yao has increased his scoring every year he has been in the league. He will not go below 20 PPG for several years. Mark it, Dude!

You are in for some pretty big surprises. Let's talk about this again in April.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 08:21 PM
You are in for some pretty big surprises. Let's talk about this again in April.
You mentioned that team two years ago, yes they almost beat the mavs in the season BUT they finished 6 games behind them in the regular season. If everything goes PERFECTLY for the rockets at max they are a 57 win team. THat is the ABSOLUTE max for them.

Dallas WILL win more than 57 games barring an injury to dirk in which case it wont matter because not only will dallas not beat the rockets, they wont make the playoffs...

Underdog
09-28-2006, 08:22 PM
You are in for some pretty big surprises. Let's talk about this again in April.

:rolleyes:

Seriously, formaldehyde-dipped chronic...

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:32 PM
You mentioned that team two years ago, yes they almost beat the mavs in the season BUT they finished 6 games behind them in the regular season. If everything goes PERFECTLY for the rockets at max they are a 57 win team. THat is the ABSOLUTE max for them.

Perhaps, but that would be plenty good enough for a first round home court series. I like the Rox chances against anyone in a seven game series.


Dallas WILL win more than 57 games barring an injury to dirk in which case it wont matter because not only will dallas not beat the rockets, they wont make the playoffs.

Even I believe that Dallas would limp into the playoffs sans Dirk. I think it is a bit strange that I have a higher opinion of the Mavs supporting cast than a Mavs fan.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Seriously, formaldehyde-dipped chronic...

Seriously, Mavs flavored kool-aid from the same state that Calvin lives in.

Underdog
09-28-2006, 08:34 PM
Seriously, Mavs flavored kool-aid from the same state that Calvin lives in.


Seriously... :confused:

Underdog
09-28-2006, 08:36 PM
Wait, you're a Rockets fan? I thought you were a Spurs fan! [I like to fight Spurs fans...] The Rockets? Well, I didn't realize they had fans... [sorry about the confusion, mate!]

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 08:37 PM
Perhaps, but that would be plenty good enough for a first round home court series. I like the Rox chances against anyone in a seven game series.



Even I believe that Dallas would limp into the playoffs sans Dirk. I think it is a bit strange that I have a higher opinion of the Mavs supporting cast than a Mavs fan.
i have never said that I dont think the rockets would make the playoffs. I said they wont be better than the mavs or Spurs. Also you mention that the rockets have improved from that meeting 2 years ago. True they might have but that was also as well as mcgrady is capable of playing and with his horrendous shot selection its doubtful he could match that again for a full series. Also, its not like dallas hasnt gotten better since then. You still have no one to handle Jet, or Josh howard who has learned to punish teams who guard dirk with 3s.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:40 PM
Seriously... :confused:

http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Calvin_and_Hobbes

Sorry it was too obscure for you. Second paragraph.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 08:41 PM
i have never said that I dont think the rockets would make the playoffs. I said they wont be better than the mavs or Spurs. Also you mention that the rockets have improved from that meeting 2 years ago. True they might have but that was also as well as mcgrady is capable of playing and with his horrendous shot selection its doubtful he could match that again for a full series. Also, its not like dallas hasnt gotten better since then. You still have no one to handle Jet, or Josh howard who has learned to punish teams who guard dirk with 3s.

He was saying he thinks the mavs will win the playoffs even if dirk gets injured.

Something I don't agree with. The west is insanely tough.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:41 PM
Wait, you're a Rockets fan? I thought you were a Spurs fan! I like to fight Spurs fans... The Rockets? Well, I didn't realize they had fans... [sorry about the confusion, mate!]

That's OK, from what I understand, the Mavs have only had fans for what, five years. j/k

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 08:43 PM
In Underdogs defense... He's new and we haven't seen many rockets fans here since we beat them in the most lopsided game 7 in nba history. God I loved that game.

Five-ofan
09-28-2006, 08:46 PM
He was saying he thinks the mavs will win the playoffs even if dirk gets injured.

Something I don't agree with. The west is insanely tough.
the mavs wouldnt make the playoffs let alone win them if dirk was injured.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:47 PM
i have never said that I dont think the rockets would make the playoffs. I said they wont be better than the mavs or Spurs.

Honestly, I don't expect the Rox to be as good as the Mavs this year. We have some chemistry questions and some young bench players that would have to step up in a BIG way for that to happen. However, the Spurs are another story. We already matched up well with them before we picked up Battier and Wells.


Also you mention that the rockets have improved from that meeting 2 years ago. True they might have but that was also as well as mcgrady is capable of playing and with his horrendous shot selection its doubtful he could match that again for a full series.

He won't have to shoot as much with dependable guys like Battier, Head, and Wells in the lineup. His shots will go down, his % will go up, and his assists are going to be stellar this year.


Also, its not like dallas hasnt gotten better since then. You still have no one to handle Jet, or Josh howard who has learned to punish teams who guard dirk with 3s.

Except that we have Wells, TMac, and Battier, all of whom are able to guard either Dirk or Howard.

Again, I am not saying that we are going to be better than the Mavs this year, but the Spurs are ripe for the picking as Duncan's age is creeping up on them.

RoxFan
09-28-2006, 08:48 PM
In Underdogs defense... He's new and we haven't seen many rockets fans here since we beat them in the most lopsided game 7 in nba history. God I loved that game.

It was a great series. I hope we see you again in '07 because I think that would be a great series as well.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 09:11 PM
the mavs wouldnt make the playoffs let alone win them if dirk was injured.

I know.. I was agreeing with you, disagreeing with him. There's too many teams waiting to jump on an opportunity like that.

fluid.forty.one
09-28-2006, 09:12 PM
It was a great series. I hope we see you again in '07 because I think that would be a great series as well.

Hopefully the ending will be a little more interesting too ;)

kingmalaki
09-28-2006, 09:19 PM
Yes...I am stoked about this signing. A talent like Wells for $2M a yr....you can't beat that.

I think the move gives the Rockets a chance to contend for a title now. Prior to the trade we didn't have a compotent 3rd scorer, or a swingman that could consistently put up points if Tracy missed time again. We have too many new players for us to assume we are an elite team (gotta see how all the pieces fit together), but I don't think anyone would want to face Yao & T-Mac in the playoffs if they are surrounded by competent role players. Wells & Battier alone are an upgrade over the guys we had surrounding our stars when y'all dusted us 2 years ago. Ryan Bowen was starting....that says enough.

The division will be tough this yr, and fun to watch. Too bad Gasol got hurt....

Five-ofan
09-29-2006, 05:54 AM
Honestly, I don't expect the Rox to be as good as the Mavs this year. We have some chemistry questions and some young bench players that would have to step up in a BIG way for that to happen. However, the Spurs are another story. We already matched up well with them before we picked up Battier and Wells.



He won't have to shoot as much with dependable guys like Battier, Head, and Wells in the lineup. His shots will go down, his % will go up, and his assists are going to be stellar this year.



Except that we have Wells, TMac, and Battier, all of whom are able to guard either Dirk or Howard. I actually think the rockets remind me a little of The mavs of 3 years ago. Tmac Bonzi and battier are all 3s. Tmac can play the 2 but i really think the rockets are in for a rude awakening when they try to play battier at the 4 all year.

Again, I am not saying that we are going to be better than the Mavs this year, but the Spurs are ripe for the picking as Duncan's age is creeping up on them.
you know that wells isnt that good defensively right? Dont get me wrong hes not horrible but its not his strength.

TheDiggler
09-29-2006, 08:41 AM
Again, I am not saying that we are going to be better than the Mavs this year, but the Spurs are ripe for the picking as Duncan's age is creeping up on them.

Duncan is only 30 and was injured last season....he wasn't himself. Now with that said...The Mavs are the team to beat because they are the Western Conference champs, but at the end of the day....I believe the Rockets and Mavs will be chasing them from short distances

Underdog
09-29-2006, 08:45 AM
Yes...I am stoked about this signing. A talent like Wells for $2M a yr....you can't beat that.


Good point - we got Devean George for about the same price... I think the Rockets spent their money wisely & Wells should be a good fit & actually make them a conteder this year...

I still don't think they'll be a threat in the playoffs, but that's just because they're in the same division as San Antonio & Dallas... Hell, half of the Western Conference could end up being serious competitors this year, depending on who suffers & who profits from injuries...

TheDiggler
09-29-2006, 08:46 AM
you know that wells isnt that good defensively right? Dont get me wrong hes not horrible but its not his strength.


He's not Bruce Bowen, but he's a good defender...you must have not seem many of his games.

Underdog
09-29-2006, 08:49 AM
I believe the Rockets and Mavs will be chasing them [Spurs] from short distances


You're half-right... ;)

TheDiggler
09-29-2006, 08:55 AM
You're half-right... ;)

Please, try not to let that Finals appearance go to your head lol :)

To underestimate a team because they had a injury plague season is a lil far fetch...might bite you really soon.

Underdog
09-29-2006, 09:02 AM
Please, try not to let that Finals appearance go to your head lol :)

To underestimate a team because they had a injury plague season is a lil far fetch...might bite you really soon.


No, I agree that the Rockets - and not the Mavs - will be playing at the heels of the Spurs...

But, the Spurs will be playing at the heels of the Mavs... (we had some of the most man hours lost to injury last season!)


[don't get defensive - it's the pre-season, nothing has been proven, and you're in MY house right now, so get used to the MAVS LOVE!] ;)

RoxFan
09-29-2006, 09:49 AM
you know that wells isnt that good defensively right? Dont get me wrong hes not horrible but its not his strength.

Not his strength, but not a glaring weakness either.

TheDiggler
09-29-2006, 09:54 AM
No, I agree that the Rockets - and not the Mavs - will be playing at the heels of the Spurs...

But, the Spurs will be playing at the heels of the Mavs... (we had some of the most man hours lost to injury last season!)


[don't get defensive - it's the pre-season, nothing has been proven, and your in MY house right now, so get used to the MAVS LOVE!] ;)

Oh I didn't get defensive.....I'm a fan of the league. I love basketball period. I respect your house and what the Mavs are all about. It's good to have confidence in your team, that's what it's all about. The Mav's represented the West well last season...just ran into a buzz saw named Wade.

tmac1yao11
09-29-2006, 12:26 PM
No, I agree that the Rockets - and not the Mavs - will be playing at the heels of the Spurs...

But, the Spurs will be playing at the heels of the Mavs... (we had some of the most man hours lost to injury last season!)


[don't get defensive - it's the pre-season, nothing has been proven, and your in MY house right now, so get used to the MAVS LOVE!] ;)

Yeah and guess who had the most man hours lost to injury? ;)

Just211
09-29-2006, 01:08 PM
call me crazy, but I don't think it was a good signing for the Rockets. I mean Wells is okay, but I don't think he's what the Rockets needed.

TheDiggler
09-29-2006, 02:05 PM
call me crazy, but I don't think it was a good signing for the Rockets. I mean Wells is okay, but I don't think he's what the Rockets needed.

Crazy....what do the Rockets need then? ;)

WurzburgBorn
09-29-2006, 02:29 PM
Crazy....what do the Rockets need then?

How about a better point guard and power forward for starters.

Underdog
09-29-2006, 03:27 PM
Crazy....what do the Rockets need then? ;)


A miracle? No, wait - A CLUE!

;) (I expect you Rox fans to buy me a drink if we keep winking at eachother like this!)

alby
09-29-2006, 03:29 PM
when has our division not been tough?

as long as we finish strong, who cares about the recs.. our team and our fans are built for the playoffs baby

alby
09-29-2006, 03:30 PM
those who take the rockets lightly are just blind homers

alby
09-29-2006, 03:33 PM
Not his strength, but not a glaring weakness either.

and now he has yao ming and mutombo to cover some of his mistakes.. solid defensive team, defense has never been a problem for the rockets anyways.

Underdog
09-29-2006, 03:47 PM
those who take the rockets lightly are just blind homers


..and those who thought the Mavs missed their window last season need to realize that we're building for the long-haul & plan on returning to the Finals this year...

A dose of neutrality is healthy for both homers & haters, but I don't think you'll find any interest in that on a FAN site (the word "fan" is derived from the word "fanatic")...


Observe: THE MAVS ARE GOING TO OWN EVERY TEAM THIS SEASON WITH AN 82-GAME WINNING STREAK, MVP FOR DIRK, & VICTORY IN THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!


(now THAT's a fanatic... Let's watch the Rockets fans chew me up over that statement!)

:D

The Crippler
09-29-2006, 11:31 PM
bonzi will be spreading his cancer all over the cess-pool, katrina evacuee-ridden town known as Houston beginning any day now...

Count them out.

chumdawg
09-30-2006, 12:26 AM
Anyone think they should be glad they didn't get the greatness of Mike James?

nashtymavsfan13
09-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Report: F Wells agrees to deal with Rockets

September 28, 2006

BRISTOL, Connecticut (Ticker) - Bonzi Wells apparently is heading back to the Southwest Division.

ESPN.com reported Thursday that the free-agent forward has agreed to a two-year, $5 million contract with the Houston Rockets.

Wells has a player option for the second year of the deal and plans to re-enter the market next summer, the report said.

"This isn't about the money, this is about being in the right place," Wells' agent, Merle Scott of BDA Sports, told ESPN.com.

After spending the majority of the previous two seasons with Southwest Division club the Memphis Grizzlies, Wells was dealt to the Sacramento Kings for Bobby Jackson and Greg Ostertag on August 2, 2005.

The 6-5 Wells averaged 13.6 points and 7.7 rebounds in 52 games for the Kings last season before increasing his production to 23.2 points and 12.0 rebounds in a six-game loss to the San Antonio Spurs in the first round of the playoffs.

Wells, who turned 30 on September 20, has career averages of 12.8 rebounds and 4.7 points in 490 games with the Portland Trial Blazers, Grizzlies and Kings.

"Bonzi doesn't care about starting," Scott said. "He just wants to be some place he can contribute."

Rockets
09-30-2006, 05:46 PM
I've been reading this thread and it's sort of dawned on me that just like any other team-specific forum, this board is full of homeristic fans who downplay their rivals and try to boost their insecurity by repeatedly bashing the opponent. Coming from a board where homers are not rare, I know exactly what this is like.

To downplay the Bonzi Wells signing as if it's trivial is really an understatement. The Rockets have long needed size and quickness on the wing. Please, after having David Wesley for two years, Bonzi Wells is a definite upgrade. Not only will he bring better defense and creating more matchup problems than Wesley, Wells will also provide the Rockets with a slasher and a consistent third scorer night in night out. Shane Battier is also an upgrade over Stromile Swift and will bring in consistency and defense. Just to remind you, Kirk Snyder, Juwan Howard and Vassilis Spanouliss are no pushovers, either. The Rockets were threats to the Mavs before the Wells signing, and now with the acquisition, it might even be safe to say the Rockets are now the Mavs' biggest threats in the Western Conference.

I also see many posters questioning the team's health and pretty much guaranteeing that someone on the Rockets will go down to injuries. Please, no injury can be preforeseen and when we look at the teams on paper, what you get is what you see, not what "might" happen. And what are we doing? Talking about these teams on paper.

nashtymavsfan13
09-30-2006, 06:34 PM
I've been reading this thread and it's sort of dawned on me that just like any other team-specific forum, this board is full of homeristic fans who downplay their rivals and try to boost their insecurity by repeatedly bashing the opponent. Coming from a board where homers are not rare, I know exactly what this is like.

Every team specific board has homeristic fans. I think that this board isn't as homeristic as many I've seen. The purpose of the board is for Mavs fans to talk about the team they love, so obviously there will be some homerism. I definetly am not underrating the Rockets, and when posters on this board say that they don't seem them as a threat and then bash them, it's because of how confident we are in our Mavs, not insecure.

To downplay the Bonzi Wells signing as if it's trivial is really an understatement. The Rockets have long needed size and quickness on the wing. Please, after having David Wesley for two years, Bonzi Wells is a definite upgrade. Not only will he bring better defense and creating more matchup problems than Wesley, Wells will also provide the Rockets with a slasher and a consistent third scorer night in night out. Shane Battier is also an upgrade over Stromile Swift and will bring in consistency and defense. Just to remind you, Kirk Snyder, Juwan Howard and Vassilis Spanouliss are no pushovers, either. The Rockets were threats to the Mavs before the Wells signing, and now with the acquisition, it might even be safe to say the Rockets are now the Mavs' biggest threats in the Western Conference.

The Wells sigining is a very good signing for the Rockets. They were going to be tough this year with or without signing Wells, and having Wells is just going to make them tougher. I totally have to disagree with you here, the Spurs are the Mavs biggest threat in the Western Conference, and the Suns are even a bigger threat than the Rockets. The Rockets will be the 5th seed, and won't come close to passing the Mavs or Spurs in the division.

I also see many posters questioning the team's health and pretty much guaranteeing that someone on the Rockets will go down to injuries. Please, no injury can be preforeseen and when we look at the teams on paper, what you get is what you see, not what "might" happen. And what are we doing? Talking about these teams on paper.

I agree with you here. Injuries are inevitable, but to say the Rockets won't be a threat due to them getting injured again isn't valid. I think that there is plenty of reasons to speculate that we think they won't go through the season healthy so we think they won't be as big a threat, but just dismissing them entirely is not right.

Overall, it's going to be quite a ride for both teams. Welcome to the board.

Rockets
09-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Every team specific board has homeristic fans. I think that this board isn't as homeristic as many I've seen. The purpose of the board is for Mavs fans to talk about the team they love, so obviously there will be some homerism. I definetly am not underrating the Rockets, and when posters on this board say that they don't seem them as a threat and then bash them, it's because of how confident we are in our Mavs, not insecure.As a Rockets fan, I have to admit my take on Houston may be more optimistic than yours, but it's evident a few here are simply refusing to look at the Rockets' moves in a fair light and knock it as much as they could. The way they're making it seem, trading for Anthony Johnson was a better move than the one the Rockets made in getting Wells.
The Wells sigining is a very good signing for the Rockets. They were going to be tough this year with or without signing Wells, and having Wells is just going to make them tougher. I totally have to disagree with you here, the Spurs are the Mavs biggest threat in the Western Conference, and the Suns are even a bigger threat than the Rockets. The Rockets will be the 5th seed, and won't come close to passing the Mavs or Spurs in the division.In terms of regular season record, the Suns and Spurs may do better, but if you could choose a series against either of these three teams, I'd say that the Rockets would be the biggest threat in a seven-game series. They match up very well with the Mavs and can go down the wire at every position. While the Suns and Spurs may be better in the team game, Nash can't beat you by himself and neither can Duncan. TMac can, and when you throw in Yao, Wells, Battier and Alston in that starting five, you'll be hard-pressed to find a team harder to face, with the exception of the Heat and Dwyane Wade.
I agree with you here. Injuries are inevitable, but to say the Rockets won't be a threat due to them getting injured again isn't valid. I think that there is plenty of reasons to speculate that we think they won't go through the season healthy so we think they won't be as big a threat, but just dismissing them entirely is not right.Ditto.
Overall, it's going to be quite a ride for both teams. Welcome to the board.Thank you. I was linked to this thread from another forum, looked specifically at this thread, and thought to back Roxfan up a little lol. When this thread is dead, it's safe to say I won't be around anymore. I'm a mod at one of the biggest general NBA boards so I won't have time to chat up with a rival team. I really like the activity and layout of this board though, you guys have a nice home.

Five-ofan
09-30-2006, 08:17 PM
As a Rockets fan, I have to admit my take on Houston may be more optimistic than yours, but it's evident a few here are simply refusing to look at the Rockets' moves in a fair light and knock it as much as they could. The way they're making it seem, trading for Anthony Johnson was a better move than the one the Rockets made in getting Wells.
In terms of regular season record, the Suns and Spurs may do better, but if you could choose a series against either of these three teams, I'd say that the Rockets would be the biggest threat in a seven-game series. They match up very well with the Mavs and can go down the wire at every position. While the Suns and Spurs may be better in the team game, Nash can't beat you by himself and neither can Duncan. TMac can, and when you throw in Yao, Wells, Battier and Alston in that starting five, you'll be hard-pressed to find a team harder to face, with the exception of the Heat and Dwyane Wade.
Ditto.
Thank you. I was linked to this thread from another forum, looked specifically at this thread, and thought to back Roxfan up a little lol. When this thread is dead, it's safe to say I won't be around anymore. I'm a mod at one of the biggest general NBA boards so I won't have time to chat up with a rival team. I really like the activity and layout of this board though, you guys have a nice home.

I think you put WAY too much faith in tmac. You just said that Tmac can win a series by himself and Duncan cant. I was gonna say no offense and i dont mean it that way but its still gonna come off that way so sorry but here goes, that is one of if not the most moronic things i have ever seen in my life. Tmac has NEVER won a playoff series and Duncan has won 3 rings but Tmac can win a series by himself but duncan cant? Think about that. You simply cant intelligbly make an argument that a guy can win a series by himself when he has never won a series. You especially cant argue that he is more likely to do so than a guy with 3 rings with 3 differently assembled teams. That is the height of lunacy and I would hope you know that.

The thing about tmac is he is EXTREMELY inconsistent. Yes he can be unstoppable when he is hot. The problem is that the same thing that makes him unstoppable at times leads to his demise when he isnt going well. He has horrible shot selection. Yes it looks great and he is unstoppable when he is making those 29 ft 3s over a defender but the problem is that he keeps taking those shots. That always leads to him cooling off.

Rockets
09-30-2006, 08:51 PM
I think you put WAY too much faith in tmac. You just said that Tmac can win a series by himself and Duncan cant. I was gonna say no offense and i dont mean it that way but its still gonna come off that way so sorry but here goes, that is one of if not the most moronic things i have ever seen in my life. Tmac has NEVER won a playoff series and Duncan has won 3 rings but Tmac can win a series by himself but duncan cant? Think about that. You simply cant intelligbly make an argument that a guy can win a series by himself when he has never won a series. You especially cant argue that he is more likely to do so than a guy with 3 rings with 3 differently assembled teams. That is the height of lunacy and I would hope you know that.

The thing about tmac is he is EXTREMELY inconsistent. Yes he can be unstoppable when he is hot. The problem is that the same thing that makes him unstoppable at times leads to his demise when he isnt going well. He has horrible shot selection. Yes it looks great and he is unstoppable when he is making those 29 ft 3s over a defender but the problem is that he keeps taking those shots. That always leads to him cooling off.
Apparently you're seeing something I'm not, because nowhere in my post did I mention that TMac can win a series by himself. I did say, however, that TMac can will a team to a win by himself in a game. Need proof? Look at game 1 of the 2005 series, when TMac pretty much singlehandly scored 34 in a game where Yao Ming disappeared and Mike James was the only other bright spot. How about game 2 where TMac scored 37? This guy, when motivated, can give the Trail Blazers a shot at contending for the playoffs. What about that miraculous comeback victory over the Spurs where TMac had 13 in 35? What about the big shoot-off between him and Dirk when the Rockets lost, but TMac managed 48 and made that Rockets team look nothing like the pathetic underachievers they were before in that season? Needlessly to say, the Rockets went on a big surge after that. What I meant in that post was that TMac, when focused, can singlehandly will a team to a victory. Did I mention "series" anywhere?

TMac's a smart player. I don't know how much of him you've seen but when he's perfectly healthy (and which he is right now, FYI), you'll rarely see him hang out on the perimeter for a whole game and look disinterested in attacking the rim. If he's taking long threes and misses three times in a row, he'll start attacking the rim and draw fouls. Every superstar, from Kobe to Lebron to Wade, know that, and that's what TMac is. A superstar.

I don't want to start any flame wars or something, but you can certainly expect a reply like this when you question my sanity. So here it goes.

Maybe you should learn to read and don't try to put words in my mouth? Your reply was without a doubt the most idiotic thing I've seen in my life. :rolleyes: :cool:

Underdog
09-30-2006, 09:03 PM
Maybe you should learn to read and don't try to put words in my mouth? Your reply was without a doubt the most idiotic thing I've seen in my life. :rolleyes: :cool:


Meeeeoooowwww!


Don't throw rocks in glass houses...

[you should have ended one sentence earlier & bowed out as the better man...]

nashtymavsfan13
09-30-2006, 09:33 PM
In terms of regular season record, the Suns and Spurs may do better, but if you could choose a series against either of these three teams, I'd say that the Rockets would be the biggest threat in a seven-game series. They match up very well with the Mavs and can go down the wire at every position. While the Suns and Spurs may be better in the team game, Nash can't beat you by himself and neither can Duncan. TMac can, and when you throw in Yao, Wells, Battier and Alston in that starting five, you'll be hard-pressed to find a team harder to face, with the exception of the Heat and Dwyane Wade.

The Spurs are a lot tougher over a 7 game series than the Rockets. Without question.

Just211
09-30-2006, 11:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote :I've been reading this thread and it's sort of dawned on me that just like any other team-specific forum, this board is full of homeristic fans who downplay their rivals and try to boost their insecurity by repeatedly bashing the opponent.

I don't think so, for the most part I think most fans on this board do not downplay the Spurs and Suns.
they are rivals.

Just211
09-30-2006, 11:11 PM
Crazy....what do the Rockets need then? ;)

Well a PG, and athletic PF.
I think the Batier trade was a great move. But The Rockets are a poor mans Lakers (old lakers)
Kobe and Shaq
TMac and Yao
Point being Tmac is like Kobe and doesn't need another guy that will take the ball out of his hands. They need great role players, and a lot more luck with injuries.

Five-ofan
10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
When you say that the rockets are the most dangerous team in a 7 game series and its because nash cant beat you by himself and neither can duncan, BUT TMAC CAN, that is pretty darn similar to saying tmac can win a series by himself. If thats not how you meant it then it has no relevance to your point.

alby
10-01-2006, 04:14 PM
nice banner Rockets

but if I were a rockets fan, I would definitely not include a picture of van gundy :D

alby
10-01-2006, 04:14 PM
When you say that the rockets are the most dangerous team in a 7 game series and its because nash cant beat you by himself and neither can duncan, BUT TMAC CAN, that is pretty darn similar to saying tmac can win a series by himself. If thats not how you meant it then it has no relevance to your point.

Tmac has never been out of the first round in his life. =)

alby
10-01-2006, 04:17 PM
Btw, i love how we have some rocket fans on this board now...

it will be more enjoyable when the Mavs finish ahead of the Rockets and when T-Mac wonders why he can't get out of the dang first round

When healthy, I believe T-Mac is a top5 player in the NBA but until he shows he can win in the playoffs, it is nothing but hype to me.

Five-ofan
10-01-2006, 04:18 PM
Tmac has never been out of the first round in his life. =)
I know that. That was my point.

Five-ofan
10-01-2006, 04:18 PM
Btw, i love how we have some rocket fans on this board now...

it will be more enjoyable when the Mavs finish ahead of the Rockets and when T-Mac wonders why he can't get out of the dang first round

When healthy, I believe T-Mac is a top5 player in the NBA but until he shows he can win in the playoffs, it is nothing but hype to me.
Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, DWade, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan in no particular order are all clearly better than tmac.

bernardos70
10-01-2006, 04:20 PM
Wells, who turned 30 on September 20, has career averages of 12.8 rebounds and 4.7 points in 490 games with the Portland Trial Blazers, Grizzlies and Kings.

That's one heck of a rebounder for a guy who's 6'5"

nashtymavsfan13
10-01-2006, 06:34 PM
[/b][/size]

That's one heck of a rebounder for a guy who's 6'5"

Yeah, Bonzi is a very solid rebounder.

Five-ofan
10-01-2006, 06:36 PM
Yeah, Bonzi is a very solid rebounder.
He was making fun of the fact that the original qoute had the points and rebounds reversed.

nashtymavsfan13
10-01-2006, 06:36 PM
He was making fun of the fact that the original qoute had the points and rebounds reversed.

Haha, I didn't notice that. I just looked at the numbers.

alby
10-01-2006, 07:35 PM
dwayne wade is not a top 5 player, wow.

nashtymavsfan13
10-01-2006, 08:41 PM
dwayne wade is not a top 5 player, wow.

are you kidding? we all hate him, but you have to at least acknowledge that.

chumdawg
10-01-2006, 09:19 PM
This move vaults Houston into the top four teams in the conference.

fluid.forty.one
10-01-2006, 09:45 PM
While the Suns and Spurs may be better in the team game, Nash can't beat you by himself and neither can Duncan. TMac can


LOL Duncan is 5x more dominant than Tmac, even when Tmac is hot.

Five-ofan
10-01-2006, 10:14 PM
This move vaults Houston into the top four teams in the conference.
I would generally agree with that but i think they would have been probably a top 4 team anyway. Dallas, SA, Phoenix and then to be honest the rest of the west really isnt that great.

alby
10-01-2006, 10:37 PM
are you kidding? we all hate him, but you have to at least acknowledge that.
dwayne wade is not a top 5 player in the nba

the man couldn't even hit a wide open 15 foot jumpshot for his country last month

the man is a terrible one on one defender who just makes those highlight plays ala iverson with his gambling

can he be a top 5 player in this league? yes.
is he on his way to being a top 5 player in the league? after 5+ seasons of what he did last year, yes.

people always label someone the second coming or whatnot after one or two seasons in the NBA when we have all seen countless times the "next Jordan" not live up to expectations or go down with an injury.

is dwayne wade a talent? hell yes, extremely athletic and his speed is his biggest weapon. but for being as athletic as he is, he should be a much more solid on the ball defender and for the amount of room guys give him on the perimeter, he should shoot the jumper with much better consistency.

chumdawg
10-01-2006, 10:54 PM
LOL Duncan is 5x more dominant than Tmac, even when Tmac is hot.Not when T-Mac is hot, bro. When T-Mac is hot he will hang a half a hundred on you by himself, and his team will win nine times out of ten. Remember the first round in '05? That horse strapped a saddle on.

Duncan is a guy you have to pay attention to every time down, but he's a guy that you CAN pay attention to. If you want to take Duncan out of the game, all you have to do is do it. You can't take a hot T-Mac out of a game, even if you want to.

And you will want to. You will really, really want to.

Tokey41
10-01-2006, 11:11 PM
Lots of questions about Tmac right now, I dont think he will be as effective as he was against us last time around... as far as im concerned hes definitely on the decline with that back problem but thats not to say he wont still be a good player this coming year if healthy... it just won't be as easy as it used to.

Although I have to admit his remarkable hot streak against the Spurs is one of my all time favorite moments, he wont do that against us. Im honestly more worried about Yao at this point considering his later season dominance. He needs to get tougher if he wants to be dominant against our bigs though.

alby
10-01-2006, 11:13 PM
I don't think we can assume anything. We really don't know if he has declined or not, therefore we are going on what we saw before his injuries last season -- single handedly almost got out of the first round. =p

alby
10-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Lots of questions about Tmac right now, I dont think he will be as effective as he was against us last time around... as far as im concerned hes definitely on the decline with that back problem but thats not to say he wont still be a good player this coming year if healthy... it just won't be as easy as it used to.

Although I have to admit his remarkable hot streak against the Spurs is one of my all time favorite moments, he wont do that against us. Im honestly more worried about Yao at this point considering his later season dominance. He needs to get tougher if he wants to be dominant against our bigs though.

totally agree with yao, that guy is very good and only getting better

nikeball
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
Rockets fans are going to find out what Mavs fans found out a couple of years ago. You can sign as many superstars as you want and until you have the right chemistry you wont win.

for example..Yao and Tmac...Inside and Outside game. Great Chemistry? I don't really think they do. Tmac's game is now hoisting 5-6 Threes per game as well as alot of outside jumpers. his FG % has always been low from 40-43%. Before when he attacked the rim he was one of the most deadliest players in the league. I always said his left hand is amazing. This past year when i watched rockets games it seemed as if tmac would have a great game or yao would. they never were in sync/had great games together.

lets go back to a couple of years or this year with Kobe/Dwade and Shaq
inside outside game is tremendous. constant movement. kobe/dwade cutting to the rim or dribble penetration...attacking it. I never see Tmac cut to the rim after feeding yao. he seems to always sit along the 3 point line and hoist up jumpers. That couldve been 'stromile swift and cato or whomever clogging the lanes but it rarely happened.


also last year all houston friends were screaming for the championship after signing stromile/derek anderson because they were the missing pieces. where are both of them now? traded and cut?


And about dwade being a top 5 player in the league.

With fouls calls he definately is. because that leads to him having a consistent jumper.

but either way my top 5:
dirk, kobe, nash, duncan, lebron/wade (whoever is hitting their jumper that night)

nikeball
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
and i do love yao.

fluid.forty.one
10-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Not when T-Mac is hot, bro. When T-Mac is hot he will hang a half a hundred on you by himself, and his team will win nine times out of ten. Remember the first round in '05? That horse strapped a saddle on.

Duncan is a guy you have to pay attention to every time down, but he's a guy that you CAN pay attention to. If you want to take Duncan out of the game, all you have to do is do it. You can't take a hot T-Mac out of a game, even if you want to.

And you will want to. You will really, really want to.

Duncan, bad foot and all, put up 30/40 points a night on us during the playoffs. This is a Duncan that is hurt.

I'm more scared of a guy who can hang 30/40 every night than someone who can do 50 maybe once/twice a series.

Was dumb of the guy to even compare the two in playoff form. Tmac has gone nowhere, Duncan has gone all the way.. 3 times. I get what you're saying, Tmac just doesn't go off frequently enough to worry me. He'll never go past the second round (maybe even the first).

chumdawg
10-02-2006, 12:14 AM
Duncan put up 30 to 40 a night, while TMac went off only once or twice in the series? As Parcells would say, you better do some multiplication!

TMac is pretty much my favorite non-Maverick or non-former-Maverick (lot of those, these days) in the league. The guy is sensational. He can take over a game like Kobe can, but he doesn't rape people. (At least not that I know of.) He is a tremendous, tremendous basketball player. Can play four positions on the offensive end, and has terrific range on the defensive end, with his long arms and good sense of the flow of the game. Can step up and cover a Dirk in a playoff series, effectively, while still scoring forty or more on the other end. And humble all the time.'

These guys...do not grow on trees.

The Rockets will be formidable next year. I wouldn't bet a dollar that the Mavericks will have a better record. The Rockets are going to be that good.

Flacolaco
10-02-2006, 12:30 AM
I hope you're wrong Chum.

But it just reinforces what I've been thinking this week....

The Mavs finishing #3 in the division is a possibility.

Thats right.

I said it.

It all depends on Houston....b/c no matter what happens, there is no way on gods green F'ing earth, that the Spurs aren't finishing 1 or 2 in the division. I hate them, but that's just the way that it is.

The Spurs are out for blood.

They want it bad.....

chumdawg
10-02-2006, 01:01 AM
The Mavs might win 55 and finish third in the division. Damn straight it's a possibility. They better lace 'em up tight and get down to business. This division is going to be a bear.

I have been on board before as saying the Spurs were ready to decline, and I'm not backing away from it now. They certainly won't see 60 again. They will be around 55, though. As will the Rockets and the Mavericks. It's going to be a dogfight.

Thespiralgoeson
10-02-2006, 02:18 AM
Chum, you could certainly be right, but if the Rockets end up being as good as you say they will be, don't be surprised if Yao is the guy that carries them there, not T-Mac.

chumdawg
10-02-2006, 02:53 AM
Oh, I certainly wouldn't dismiss Yao. But Yao isn't going anywhere without a backcourt player to share the load. If the Rockets get home court, like I think they will, it will be because of both players.

And why shouldn't it?

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 07:32 AM
Not when T-Mac is hot, bro. When T-Mac is hot he will hang a half a hundred on you by himself, and his team will win nine times out of ten. Remember the first round in '05? That horse strapped a saddle on.

Duncan is a guy you have to pay attention to every time down, but he's a guy that you CAN pay attention to. If you want to take Duncan out of the game, all you have to do is do it. You can't take a hot T-Mac out of a game, even if you want to.

And you will want to. You will really, really want to.
thats the thing, when tmac is hot he could very well be the scariest player in the league. The problem is, hes not consistent with it. He takes moronic shots which is why you cant take him out of the game when hes hot. A guy with a 40 inch vert who is 6-8 and will shoot it from 28 feet is unstoppable when thats going in. But shooting it so often is why one of the 5 most athletic people in the nba shoots 43%.

As for defense, at one point in time, he was THE best player in the nba defensively. I firmly believe that when he played for toronto, he was better than ron artest is now defensively. Those days have long since passed though. Yes he can still D up for short spurts but for the most part he sucks now because he just doesnt/cant give the effort on that end.

In Bill Simmons Trade value thing about 3 years ago he summed it up best though i disagree with the other player he used. He said that Tmac is content to be the guy who could be the best player in the league if he worked at it while pierce is the guy who is going to work to make himself in the best player in the leauge(his celtic homerism is a little obvious here). Switch pierce with kobe and i think thats a fairly true statement.

fluid.forty.one
10-02-2006, 08:40 AM
I think Kobe is more naturally talented than Tmac.. not just a harder worker.

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 08:59 AM
I think Kobe is more naturally talented than Tmac.. not just a harder worker.
i disagree, Tmac is taller and every bit as athletic. Hes also a more natural shooter.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Well a PG, and athletic PF.
I think the Batier trade was a great move. But The Rockets are a poor mans Lakers (old lakers)
Kobe and Shaq
TMac and Yao
Point being Tmac is like Kobe and doesn't need another guy that will take the ball out of his hands. They need great role players, and a lot more luck with injuries.

It was Sarcasm.....:cool:

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 09:08 AM
Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, DWade, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan in no particular order are all clearly better than tmac.

You're clearly delusional, but your opinion is your own.

I'm a Rocket fan and I can honesty say that I would take 3 out of that list of 5 over T-Mac.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 09:12 AM
are you kidding? we all hate him, but you have to at least acknowledge that.

When he develops a CONSISTANT 18 footer.....then maybe a top five player. But he's great nevertheless

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 09:26 AM
Lots of questions about Tmac right now, I dont think he will be as effective as he was against us last time around... as far as im concerned hes definitely on the decline with that back problem but thats not to say he wont still be a good player this coming year if healthy... it just won't be as easy as it used to.

Although I have to admit his remarkable hot streak against the Spurs is one of my all time favorite moments, he wont do that against us. Im honestly more worried about Yao at this point considering his later season dominance. He needs to get tougher if he wants to be dominant against our bigs though.

I'm not going to comment about the T-Mac, because any team had and will continue to have problems with him including the Mavs. Just like Dirk, T-Mac is UNGUARDABLE.

Now, the comment about Yao needing to be tougher if he wants to dominate your "bigs" is silly. lol Are you kidding? That's like me saying that Jason Terry needs to be MORE clutch if he wants to dominate against our guards. lol

You need to talk about how the Rockets need better guard play period and knocking down open jumpers would be a start if they want to contend with the Mavs. It's not close right now, because the Rockets have to prove that first. T-mac and Yao do not need to prove anything.

Flacolaco
10-02-2006, 10:25 AM
thats the thing, when tmac is hot he could very well be the scariest player in the league. The problem is, hes not consistent with it. He takes moronic shots which is why you cant take him out of the game when hes hot. A guy with a 40 inch vert who is 6-8 and will shoot it from 28 feet is unstoppable when thats going in. But shooting it so often is why one of the 5 most athletic people in the nba shoots 43%.


That's true. Sometimes he makes you smile, like you smile when "Toine" jacks up something that is so incredibly moronic it makes you laugh.

Problem is, with tmac, they've got a lot better chance of going in.

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 10:47 AM
That's true. Sometimes he makes you smile, like you smile when "Toine" jacks up something that is so incredibly moronic it makes you laugh.

Problem is, with tmac, they've got a lot better chance of going in.
True but then you look at Tmacs shooting percentage and you realize that they really dont. He is clearly a better shooter than Toine thats not my point but Im just pointing out that Tmacs HORRIBLE shot selection helps to water down his talent.

Diggler, Who wouldnt you take over tmac out of those 5? From your comments im guessing Wade is one and there isnt even an argument to be made for taking him over ANY of the other 4. Wade is better too but you can say what you want.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 11:45 AM
Diggler, Who wouldnt you take over tmac out of those 5? From your comments im guessing Wade is one and there isnt even an argument to be made for taking him over ANY of the other 4. Wade is better too but you can say what you want.

One thing you're learn about me is that I'm not delusional...i'm fair and open minded. I know my players faults to a "T" I don't comment about things I don't know about......T-Mac has a back issue...well, ok it's a problem....when it's hurting, he takes a lot of jumpers. NOW....knowing this and seeing I watch 80 out of 82 games, I know that he DOESN'T have bad shot selection. If he takes a 26 footer, Houston fans are fine with it because the majority fall. That's like me saying Dirk has bad shot selection because he's 7 feet and take 26footers......I watch a lot of basketball, but I'm sure you've watched more Mav games than i have. You can say he has bad shooting percentages which I disagree with, he had a career low in shot percentage last year at 40.6%. Not making excuses for him, but I think you can guess why it was that low, but don't say his shot selection is bad.....that tells me that you don't watch many Rocket games. You're assuming.

To answer your question......the players I would take over T-Mac

1. Tim Duncan...........he's a staple and really don't deserve a reason
2. Kobe Bryant........... This is hard because they are simular in so many ways. I think it's the durability that sells me.
3. LeBron............Just because of what he will become.

D Wade is great, don't get me wrong.....but come on man. The guy can not knock down a consistant 15footer. When he learns the 15 and 18 footers will save his career, then he will be ridiculous. For right now, he's very, very talented and his power and speed will carry him as long as he has his youth and health.

Dirk is a living mismatch......no player makes me never like him. You CAN NOT GUARD him. With that being said......you can't guard Tracy either and you get more out Tracy in my opinion. I love the new Dirk and the way Avery has him playing. He actually goes to the paint now and kills you that way too. I'd rather have T-MAC though.

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 11:59 AM
One thing you're learn about me is that I'm not delusional...i'm fair and open minded. I know my players faults to a "T" I don't comment about things I don't know about......T-Mac has a back issue...well, ok it's a problem....when it's hurting, he takes a lot of jumpers. NOW....knowing this and seeing I watch 80 out of 82 games, I know that he DOESN'T have bad shot selection. If he takes a 26 footer, Houston fans are fine with it because the majority fall. That's like me saying Dirk has bad shot selection because he's 7 feet and take 26footers......I watch a lot of basketball, but I'm sure you've watched more Mav games than i have. You can say he has bad shooting percentages which I disagree with, but don't say his shot selction is bad.....that tells me that you don't watch many Rocket games. You're assuming.

To answer your question......the players I would take over T-Mac

1. Tim Duncan...........he's a staple and really don't deserve a reason
2. Kobe Bryant........... This is hard because they are simular in so many ways. I think it's the durability that sells me.
3. LeBron............Just because of what he will become.

D Wade is great, don't get me wrong.....but come on man. The guy can not knock down a consistant 15footer. When he learns the 15 and 18 footers will save his career, then he will be ridiculous. For right now, he's very, very talented and his power and speed will carry him as long as he has his youth and health.

Dirk is a living mismatch......no player makes me never like him. You CAN NOT GUARD him. With that being said......you can't guard Tracy either and you get more out Tracy in my opinion. I love the new Dirk and the way Avery has him playing. He actually goes to the paint now and kills you that way too. I'd rather have T-MAC though.
I watch ALOT of houston games. I will probably end up watching more houston games than mavs games this year since im now in the houston market :( Tmac was my favorite non mav when he played for toronto so dont think im a tmac "hater" but he does have terrible shot selection. You believe him to be a gifted shooter correct? I do.

Yet he is a career 44% shooter. If he shot 44%, that wouldnt even be bad but he hasnt shot over 43.1% in the last 3 years. Nor has he shot 34% on 3s in the last 3 years. Im not really sure how you argue that his percentages are great. To be as athletic and have the handles that he does, he should shoot more fts too. Yes that is largely due to his back but yes, his back is part of him. this isnt fantasy world. You cant say well if tmac didnt have a bad back. Hes also nothing special defensively anymore because he just doesnt try anymore though that ability is still there.

Im sorry but Tmac just isnt as good as you think he is. Like i said hes dangerous in a short burst such as a 7 game series but over the course of the season he is arguably top 10 not top 5. To be honest, you could make a very legit argument that paul pierce is better than he is.

Wade on the other hand is a 48.2% shooting for his career. No he cant shoot as well as tmac can from distance but he is ALOT better at getting to the rim.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 01:54 PM
I watch ALOT of houston games. I will probably end up watching more houston games than mavs games this year since im now in the houston market :( Tmac was my favorite non mav when he played for toronto so dont think im a tmac "hater" but he does have terrible shot selection. You believe him to be a gifted shooter correct? I do.

Yet he is a career 44% shooter. If he shot 44%, that wouldnt even be bad but he hasnt shot over 43.1% in the last 3 years. Nor has he shot 34% on 3s in the last 3 years. Im not really sure how you argue that his percentages are great. To be as athletic and have the handles that he does, he should shoot more fts too. Yes that is largely due to his back but yes, his back is part of him. this isnt fantasy world. You cant say well if tmac didnt have a bad back. Hes also nothing special defensively anymore because he just doesnt try anymore though that ability is still there.

Im sorry but Tmac just isnt as good as you think he is. Like i said hes dangerous in a short burst such as a 7 game series but over the course of the season he is arguably top 10 not top 5. To be honest, you could make a very legit argument that paul pierce is better than he is.

Wade on the other hand is a 48.2% shooting for his career. No he cant shoot as well as tmac can from distance but he is ALOT better at getting to the rim.

1st off...I never said that he's percentages were great? We are in the NBA in 2006....who has "great" percentages lol. I said his shot selection is not bad and I know this for a fact because I watched 95% of his game SINCE he's been in Houston. You say that you watch a good deal of Rocket games, but your Blue colored glasses only allows you to see tunel vision man lol. He had a bad percentage year....I admitted that. Was it because of injury? Yes. Did he attack the rim last year? No. The last time I remember him attacking the rack was in pre-season....a very long time ago. lol. In 2005, He consistantly attacked the rim and ending up in many highlight reels like the one he rode Shawn Bradley's back lol (sorry....cheap shot) You can't convince me that D Wade is better than T-Mac..Kobe or who ever until he can shoot a consistant jumper. He shot 48% from the field last year and that's from attacking rim ALL the time...nothing wrong with that until you face a team that play a GREAT zone like Greece and put a end to that shit lol. There are a lot of faults I see in Dirks game that I can name and reasons I can come up with to let you know that Dirk isn't as good as YOU think he is.....(Remember, its Jason Terry that hurts the Rockets...not Dirk) but I'm not going to do that for the sake of making silly points because Dirk is great and nothing I say will change that.

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 02:17 PM
1st off...I never said that he's percentages were great? We are in the NBA in 2006....who has "great" percentages lol. I said his shot selection is not bad and I know this for a fact because I watched 95% of his game SINCE he's been in Houston. You say that you watch a good deal of Rocket games, but your Blue colored glasses only allows you to see tunel vision man lol. He had a bad percentage year....I admitted that. Was it because of injury? Yes. Did he attack the rim last year? No. The last time I remember him attacking the rack was in pre-season....a very long time ago. lol. In 2005, He consistantly attacked the rim and ending up in many highlight reels like the one he rode Shawn Bradley's back lol (sorry....cheap shot) You can't convince me that D Wade is better than T-Mac..Kobe or who ever until he can shoot a consistant jumper. He shot 48% from the field last year and that's from attacking rim ALL the time...nothing wrong with that until you face a team that play a GREAT zone like Greece and put a end to that shit lol. There are a lot of faults I see in Dirks game that I can name and reasons I can come up with to let you know that Dirk isn't as good as YOU think he is.....(Remember, its Jason Terry that hurts the Rockets...not Dirk) but I'm not going to do that for the sake of making silly points because Dirk is great and nothing I say will change that.
Tmac is great. I like tmac, however if you are gonna argue that he has good shot selection than you are saying you dont think he is a very good shooter which i disagree with. For the purposes of the nba, Wade is a better player than TMAC is.

Tmac had a bad percentage last year, a low end of mediocre percentage the year before and a bad percentage before that. Hes not a good percentage shooter. That is because he doesnt attack the rim enough and he has poor shot selection. To be honest i think he might be a better player if he couldnt shoot.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 02:39 PM
Tmac is great. I like tmac, however if you are gonna argue that he has good shot selection than you are saying you dont think he is a very good shooter which i disagree with. For the purposes of the nba, Wade is a better player than TMAC is.

Tmac had a bad percentage last year, a low end of mediocre percentage the year before and a bad percentage before that. Hes not a good percentage shooter. That is because he doesnt attack the rim enough and he has poor shot selection. To be honest i think he might be a better player if he couldnt shoot.

You're not going to convince me by looking at stats from the internet....I KNOW what he does because I see it every game night. If you think D Wade is better that T-Mac, then that's fine.....you're intitled to your opinion, but by no means is your opinion LAW. The World Championships told the story AGAIN on our youngstars...they can't shoot. I'll ride with Tracy any day and never look back. See you in the playoffs.....we'll be ready. That's all I can say because the Mavs have Owned the Rockets of late....I accept that and respect that. Things change though.......things change

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 03:45 PM
You're not going to convince me by looking at stats from the internet....I KNOW what he does because I see it every game night. If you think D Wade is better that T-Mac, then that's fine.....you're intitled to your opinion, but by no means is your opinion LAW. The World Championships told the story AGAIN on our youngstars...they can't shoot. I'll ride with Tracy any day and never look back. See you in the playoffs.....we'll be ready. That's all I can say because the Mavs have Owned the Rockets of late....I accept that and respect that. Things change though.......things change
So, when exactly did the nba change to fiba rules? Until then, what happens in the world championships has about as much in common with the nba as the And1 tour does.

TheDiggler
10-02-2006, 04:09 PM
So, when exactly did the nba change to fiba rules? Until then, what happens in the world championships has about as much in common with the nba as the And1 tour does.

Stoping defending that dude lol Fact is that FIBA rules showed the world what we already knew but was blinded by his play in the Finals...he has a HUGE flaw in his game........Kobe T-mac or Jesus Shuttlesworth aka Ray Allen would not have had that same problem with Fiba ZONES. They all can shoot. You're in denial Five lol......D Wade is a great young player and he will be a beast when it's all said and done...damn near there, but he knows his jumper needs help. I know you Dallas fans can't stand the Diesel, but it was his presence down low that opened all those lanes. Mark my words...Carmelo will have a better year than Bron Bron and Flash.

Five-ofan
10-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Stoping defending that dude lol Fact is that FIBA rules showed the world what we already knew but was blinded by his play in the Finals...he has a HUGE flaw in his game........Kobe T-mac or Jesus Shuttlesworth aka Ray Allen would not have had that same problem with Fiba ZONES. They all can shoot. You're in denial Five lol......D Wade is a great young player and he will be a beast when it's all said and done...damn near there, but he knows his jumper needs help. I know you Dallas fans can't stand the Diesel, but it was his presence down low that opened all those lanes. Mark my words...Carmelo will have a better year than Bron Bron and Flash.
HAHA, you might have been ok if you stopped at flash but Bron is THE best player in the nba right now. I hate wade but the fact that those guys wouldnt have a problem with fiba doesnt mean anything considering we are talking about the nba. Im not ever gonna argue that wade can shoot like tmac and it would be a mistake for him to try but he is a better nba player than tmac.

fluid.forty.one
10-02-2006, 04:38 PM
Hey digg, when was the last time Tmac got out of the first round?

Underdog
10-02-2006, 05:41 PM
Damn, the Rockets fans are STILL junking up our boards with their trash?

Houston can suck a fart out of my pucker through TMac's lips!

:eek:

Tokey41
10-02-2006, 06:50 PM
I think i'll wait until our first encounter with the Rockets to see how 'tough' Yao is lol...

Just some questions:

I think its silly in comparing who you would rather have as a player when looking at Tmac and Wade. You said you would pick Bron over Tmac and thats understandable for 'what Lebron will become' right? Well Wade is arguably better than Tmac right now and still has tons of room to improve. So why not place him up in there as well? I KNOW he will be better than Tmac, hes already accomplished more career wise. You may be in denial on this but Tmac doesnt have as much left as you think, his athleticism is questionable at this point with those back issues and thats probably the reason hes jacking up so many ill advised shots these days.

And Dirk? Also debateable, but i'll give you some reasons without trying to sound too homer'ish: i'd much rather have the unconventional one of a kind seven footer than the hybrid player that Tmac (and SO many others) are. Hes also taken his team way farther into the playoffs, and above all he seems to be a lot healthier. Tmac has also stuck his foot in his mouth a million times... remember the 5% of NBA players being gay? Calling the finals rigged? (he still shouldnt have said it) and he pretty much gave up and died when his Magic team was losing. So yeah, i'd take Dirk unless Tmac shows me something impressive this year.

alby
10-03-2006, 12:20 AM
kobe is a much more natural shooter than tmac

alby
10-03-2006, 12:20 AM
thats the thing, when tmac is hot he could very well be the scariest player in the league. The problem is, hes not consistent with it. He takes moronic shots which is why you cant take him out of the game when hes hot. A guy with a 40 inch vert who is 6-8 and will shoot it from 28 feet is unstoppable when thats going in. But shooting it so often is why one of the 5 most athletic people in the nba shoots 43%.

As for defense, at one point in time, he was THE best player in the nba defensively. I firmly believe that when he played for toronto, he was better than ron artest is now defensively. Those days have long since passed though. Yes he can still D up for short spurts but for the most part he sucks now because he just doesnt/cant give the effort on that end.

In Bill Simmons Trade value thing about 3 years ago he summed it up best though i disagree with the other player he used. He said that Tmac is content to be the guy who could be the best player in the league if he worked at it while pierce is the guy who is going to work to make himself in the best player in the leauge(his celtic homerism is a little obvious here). Switch pierce with kobe and i think thats a fairly true statement.

every perimeter player in the league who is a "superstar" takes moronic shots imo

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 08:28 AM
Hey digg, when was the last time Tmac got out of the first round?

None.....But what does that have to do with the conversation?

i have a question.

How many championships do Dirk have? Do that make him any less of the player he is?

Five-ofan
10-03-2006, 08:29 AM
None.....But what does that have to do with the conversation?

i have a question.

How many championships do Dirk have? Do that make him any less of the player he is?
theres a slight difference between dirk never having won a title and tmac never having got out of the first round. Since dirk hasnt won a title he cant be compared to the duncans and shaqs of the world. However, since tmac hasnt gotten out of the first round, he really shouldnt be compared to the dirks of the world.

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 08:39 AM
theres a slight difference between dirk never having won a title and tmac never having got out of the first round. Since dirk hasnt won a title he cant be compared to the duncans and shaqs of the world. However, since tmac hasnt gotten out of the first round, he really shouldnt be compared to the dirks of the world.

Man please! Dirk is great...no doubt about it, but many, many others would take T-Mac in a heart beat over him. They are both great players and you have your reasons for believeing your guy is BETTER.....I don't buy it because of my beliefs. That's cool.....I respect the fact that you can have a seniable debate without throwing dirt unlike some of your thread-mates lol

Just because Dirk has went further in the playoffs doesn't mean is BETTER than T-mac or other star players......just means that Dirk had a better team. It's unfair to say. What if I said that Houston was a better organization than Dallas because we've had 4 Finals apperances to your 1 and Two Championships to your none? That wouldn't be fair and it takes away from the facts. We are talking about indivisual talents...comparing two of todays better players

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 08:47 AM
I think i'll wait until our first encounter with the Rockets to see how 'tough' Yao is lol...

Just some questions:

I think its silly in comparing who you would rather have as a player when looking at Tmac and Wade. You said you would pick Bron over Tmac and thats understandable for 'what Lebron will become' right? Well Wade is arguably better than Tmac right now and still has tons of room to improve. So why not place him up in there as well? I KNOW he will be better than Tmac, hes already accomplished more career wise. You may be in denial on this but Tmac doesnt have as much left as you think, his athleticism is questionable at this point with those back issues and thats probably the reason hes jacking up so many ill advised shots these days.

And Dirk? Also debateable, but i'll give you some reasons without trying to sound too homer'ish: i'd much rather have the unconventional one of a kind seven footer than the hybrid player that Tmac (and SO many others) are. Hes also taken his team way farther into the playoffs, and above all he seems to be a lot healthier. Tmac has also stuck his foot in his mouth a million times... remember the 5% of NBA players being gay? Calling the finals rigged? (he still shouldnt have said it) and he pretty much gave up and died when his Magic team was losing. So yeah, i'd take Dirk unless Tmac shows me something impressive this year.

Sorry...you sound homerish lol

So...Tracy saying that 5% of the league is gay...Finals are rigged....and gave up of a team when the organization was terrible.....is that all you have? That's it? Look man, Tracy doesn't have to prove nothing to YOU.....you can have your Hybrid lol Find D Wade a jumper and then I'll put him on a list ahead of McGrady. Oooh and T-mac is only 27, I doubt that his athleticism is going anywhere any time soon.

fluid.forty.one
10-03-2006, 09:15 AM
Athleticism wont do you any good if you keep getting injured. Look at amare... WAY more athletic than anyone in the league but that doesn't matter anymore.

Five-ofan
10-03-2006, 09:17 AM
Man please! Dirk is great...no doubt about it, but many, many others would take T-Mac in a heart beat over him. They are both great players and you have your reasons for believeing your guy is BETTER.....I don't buy it because of my beliefs. That's cool.....I respect the fact that you can have a seniable debate without throwing dirt unlike some of your thread-mates lol

Just because Dirk has went further in the playoffs doesn't mean is BETTER than T-mac or other star players......just means that Dirk had a better team. It's unfair to say. What if I said that Houston was a better organization than Dallas because we've had 4 Finals apperances to your 1 and Two Championships to your none? That wouldn't be fair and it takes away from the facts. We are talking about indivisual talents...comparing two of todays better players
I love it man, the reason im on this site is because i LOVE the dallas mavericks, specifically dirk nowitzki. And I love discussing Bball in general, again specifically the mavs. If I was a rockets fan, I would argue that Tmac is better than dirk. I wouldnt argue that he is the best player in the nba(the same way i dont argue that for dirk though if the mavs had won the title last year it was coming) But i understand arguing Tmac from your perspective and its cool. That is the purpose of the basketball season for guys like us. We get to see who is right! There are imo about 8 guys that I would argue are top 5 if i was a fan of their team. Dirk I really do think is better than most of them though.

Oh well, Good luck on the season, You will need it because we all know the rockets are the third best team in the division, ;)

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 09:22 AM
Athleticism wont do you any good if you keep getting injured. Look at amare... WAY more athletic than anyone in the league but that doesn't matter anymore.

Totally understand, but Tokey41 was making a mute point. T-Mac is getting old to him at 27 lol if he's old then I'm almost dead at 29

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 09:32 AM
I love it man, the reason im on this site is because i LOVE the dallas mavericks, specifically dirk nowitzki. And I love discussing Bball in general, again specifically the mavs. If I was a rockets fan, I would argue that Tmac is better than dirk. I wouldnt argue that he is the best player in the nba(the same way i dont argue that for dirk though if the mavs had won the title last year it was coming) But i understand arguing Tmac from your perspective and its cool. That is the purpose of the basketball season for guys like us. We get to see who is right! There are imo about 8 guys that I would argue are top 5 if i was a fan of their team. Dirk I really do think is better than most of them though.

Oh well, Good luck on the season, You will need it because we all know the rockets are the third best team in the division, ;)


lol....and I have to sit here a take it because RIGHT now the Rockets are NOT better than the Mavs or Spur...Sun either. We have to prove it. I'm a basketball nut and a HUGE Rocket fan and I love to debate about my Rockets and the league is general. It doesn't matter if anyone disagrees with me; because we all are entitled to our own opinions....we are all passionate homers. So I really try not to throw dirt and be nasty with people because we can all debate and have fun at it. Some of you guys are Alright.......gave me a different perspective about Mav fans in general. Good luck this season..................I'm looking for bragging rights, so I'll be around to smear a lil dust (not dirt) on the threads now and again lol. All in good fun

Five-ofan
10-03-2006, 09:37 AM
All in good fun
Likewise.

Tokey41
10-03-2006, 12:06 PM
Its not a moot point when he has back problems and is taking more and more bad long range shots every year. I dont think im the only one who notices these things, a back problem DOES affect a players athleticism and im pretty sure its the reason he doesnt drive as much as he used to and hes not as good as he would be otherwise.

As for being homerish I was simply pointing out the things I remember most from Tmac, since he hasnt given me much to remember. In my opinion as a player Tmac is still top 15 material and his offensive skills are great and all but he doesnt impress me as much as he used to and maybe its because hes been so banged up or maybe its because he really is slipping due to injuries. If that makes me a homer for choosing Dirk so be it, but I also said Dirk is a far more unique player, been deeper into the playoffs (even won a series or two...), didn't miss any games last season, and has stepped his defense up a great amount over this past season. I know Dirks only going to get better, and im questioning Tmac right now. If you think anyone on this board would take Tracy over Dirk your crazy... but if you know a Rocket board maybe you should ask the same question to Housten fans and see those results.

And Wade is easily going to be a better player than Tracy, but I think hes already there. He should be on your list along with Dirk and several others.

alby
10-03-2006, 12:33 PM
we are talking about the rockets team, if healthy.. if 100%

so don't talk about so and so will be hurt, etc etc

Five-ofan
10-03-2006, 12:40 PM
we are talking about the rockets team, if healthy.. if 100%

so don't talk about so and so will be hurt, etc etc
I would generally agree with that BUT if you employ a bunch of injury prone people, its not real smart to plan on them going completely injury free. IE Josh howard will probably miss at least 15 games this year and Stack will probably miss 25 along with a few others.

alby
10-03-2006, 12:49 PM
its all about the playoffs

and as long as teams are generally healthy for the playoffs, thats what matters

the regular season to me is a tune up

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 02:11 PM
. If you think anyone on this board would take Tracy over Dirk your crazy... but if you know a Rocket board maybe you should ask the same question to Housten fans and see those results.

And Wade is easily going to be a better player than Tracy, but I think hes already there. He should be on your list along with Dirk and several others.

Now why would I think that anyone on this board would take Tracy over DirK? lol I said I would take him over Dirk and ALL of you were trying to convince me that I'm crazy and well you should......you are all HOMERS! lol and that's fine because I'm a homer too.
If I ask the Houston fans on my home board.....it would be staggering how many people would choose Tracy over Dirk....doesn't mean Dirk isn't the man, it's just we've seen tracy for two years now and confinced he's legit. We in Houston are used to seeing great players play....Dream, Clyde, Moses..etc Tracy and Yao will be added to the list.

If you think Wade is better then fine....I can't convince you otherwise, but while you're in his world, find him a jumper for me because him driving crazy to whole is going to cut his years short if he doesn't find a 18footer soon. If he hurt his back.....could he still average 25ppg? I don't think so.......Give me McGrady

alby
10-03-2006, 02:28 PM
also tmac is long 6' 8" (i think hes taller but whatever)

TheDiggler
10-03-2006, 02:28 PM
I would generally agree with that BUT if you employ a bunch of injury prone people, its not real smart to plan on them going completely injury free. IE Josh howard will probably miss at least 15 games this year and Stack will probably miss 25 along with a few others.


We had a freakish season...I'll give you that. Yao is NOT injury prone....Tracy has that back issue, but I really pray it doesn't catch up with him. We worry about that all the time. But to his defense...he's been able to capture two scoring titles and stay consistantly in the upper rankings in scoring for a number of years....with a bad back. It's because he's GREAT....he's not a one trick pony. He knows how to score. D Wade will crack my top five when he gets a constant jumper.

Tim Duncan......Still the best to me
LeBron James......will take that from Tim soon
Kobe Byrant.........coldblooded
Kevin Garnett........Needs his passion again, but can't deny his talent

3-way Tie for the fifth spot ( this will piss some of you off lol)

T-Mac......Can do EVERYTHING you need on the court.(I put T-Maxc 1st lol)
Dirk...... A living mismatch. One time generation player
AI......STILL amazes me for what he does with his size...truly dominate (does this puzzles anyone how he does it?)


Outside looking in
Amare.........Moses Malone clone, will take The Big Tickets spot soon
D-Wade........When he gets that jumper, the league is his
Yao..............Just a matter of time
Carmelo........It's his year to put up or shut up.
Nash............best point in the League
Jermaine O'neil..........Under Rated

tmac1yao11
10-03-2006, 09:48 PM
Its not a moot point when he has back problems and is taking more and more bad long range shots every year. I dont think im the only one who notices these things, a back problem DOES affect a players athleticism and im pretty sure its the reason he doesnt drive as much as he used to and hes not as good as he would be otherwise.

As for being homerish I was simply pointing out the things I remember most from Tmac, since he hasnt given me much to remember. In my opinion as a player Tmac is still top 15 material and his offensive skills are great and all but he doesnt impress me as much as he used to and maybe its because hes been so banged up or maybe its because he really is slipping due to injuries. If that makes me a homer for choosing Dirk so be it, but I also said Dirk is a far more unique player, been deeper into the playoffs (even won a series or two...), didn't miss any games last season, and has stepped his defense up a great amount over this past season. I know Dirks only going to get better, and im questioning Tmac right now. If you think anyone on this board would take Tracy over Dirk your crazy... but if you know a Rocket board maybe you should ask the same question to Housten fans and see those results.

And Wade is easily going to be a better player than Tracy, but I think hes already there. He should be on your list along with Dirk and several others.

Since he hasnt given you much to remember? Did you see the series between Dallas and Houston? He was the only superstar that played like a superstar that series. Who was the better player that series? Sure the better team won but who played better? TMac even added to Dirk's poor performance by guarding him and slowing him down enough to average well below his normal scoring average.

What killed the Rockets that series was the athleticism and length of the Mavs. We have now addressed that. I cant wait until the real season begins. Of course we are still limited at the PG and PF but I like what Van Gundy has to work with in training camp.

Five-ofan
10-03-2006, 09:56 PM
We had a freakish season...I'll give you that. Yao is NOT injury prone....Tracy has that back issue, but I really pray it doesn't catch up with him. We worry about that all the time. But to his defense...he's been able to capture two scoring titles and stay consistantly in the upper rankings in scoring for a number of years....with a bad back. It's because he's GREAT....he's not a one trick pony. He knows how to score. D Wade will crack my top five when he gets a constant jumper.

Tim Duncan......Still the best to me
LeBron James......will take that from Tim soon
Kobe Byrant.........coldblooded
Kevin Garnett........Needs his passion again, but can't deny his talent

3-way Tie for the fifth spot ( this will piss some of you off lol)

T-Mac......Can do EVERYTHING you need on the court.(I put T-Maxc 1st lol)
Dirk...... A living mismatch. One time generation player
AI......STILL amazes me for what he does with his size...truly dominate (does this puzzles anyone how he does it?)


Outside looking in
Amare.........Moses Malone clone, will take The Big Tickets spot soon
D-Wade........When he gets that jumper, the league is his
Yao..............Just a matter of time
Carmelo........It's his year to put up or shut up.
Nash............best point in the League
Jermaine O'neil..........Under Rated
JO is overrated not underrated, amare will never be the same and dirk is better than kg.

Tokey41
10-03-2006, 10:49 PM
"If I ask the Houston fans on my home board.....it would be staggering how many people would choose Tracy over Dirk....

If you think Wade is better then fine....I can't convince you otherwise, but while you're in his world, find him a jumper for me because him driving crazy to whole is going to cut his years short if he doesn't find a 18footer soon. If he hurt his back.....could he still average 25ppg? I don't think so.......Give me McGrady"

Thats the point... im sure Housten fans would select Tmac ahead of Dirk, I also know I cant find any logical reason behind that but thats fine because im sure they dont see my reasoning either. Im simply questioning his durability and I feel I have a right to at this point. There are several players i'd take over Dirk... like Lebron, Dwight, and Kobe. I wouldnt take Duncan or KG though.

Wade has certain holes in his game because hes not perfect. But if he hurt his back? Like McGrady did and doesnt drive anymore? Im sure he could find a decent jumper. McGrady still gets his points for the games he actually plays... but I swear if he injures himself for like 3/4 of the season I will be all over my argument that his athletic days are over.

Oh and I cant believe you woul put a list of outsiders on it without Dhoward, Bosh, and Arenas but somehow manage to but JO and Nash on there.

"Since he hasnt given you much to remember? Did you see the series between Dallas and Houston? He was the only superstar that played like a superstar that series. Who was the better player that series? Sure the better team won but who played better? TMac even added to Dirk's poor performance by guarding him and slowing him down enough to average well below his normal scoring average."

I only remember beating the Rockets in an amazing comeback effort... but yeah Tmac was great that series, he had and thanks to us STILL has something to prove and it was pretty obvious in his play. He was great for one series that his team lost, and thats your argument for him being better than Dirk? Why should I remember that in particular? What about the entire season? Im fairly positive Dirk was the better player statistically on a team many discarded while your Rockets were praised.

"we are talking about the rockets team, if healthy.. if 100%

so don't talk about so and so will be hurt, etc etc"

My whole point was Tmac may not even be 100% of what we're used to, im just speculating and its just my opinion. Hes going to take a lot of jumpers, knock down an impressive amount, but still wont drive. Its a theory to why he takes so many bad shots nowadays in contrast to before, you dont have to agree... you dont have to like it, but it makes sense to me.

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 08:41 AM
^^^^^^^

Thats the point... im sure Housten fans would select Tmac ahead of Dirk, I also know I cant find any logical reason behind that but thats fine because im sure they dont see my reasoning either. Im simply questioning his durability and I feel I have a right to at this point. There are several players i'd take over Dirk... like Lebron, Dwight, and Kobe. I wouldnt take Duncan or KG though.....Oh and I cant believe you woul put a list of outsiders on it without Dhoward, Bosh, and Arenas but somehow manage to but JO and Nash on there.

What? Dwight Howard over Dirk? I'm offically through....i can't believe you say that without laughing at yourself. He's young, athletic and powerful.....GREAT. That will get you 17 and 10boards a night and be considered a star with SOME sport writers and fans. Dirk is a SUPERSTAR........Dwight has a LONG way to go, the kid needs a offensive game bad and i'm sure he'll get it, but to say you will take him over Dirk....crazy.

I didn't put Arenas, Bosh and D Howard on that list because they are NOT better than the guys I have on there...I know it's me opinion, but it's really true. You're telling me that you would take D Howard and Bosh over J O'neil? Jermaine is a beast and has proved to be nearly unstopable....inside and out/ both hands around the basket...crazy talent. Arenas is mad talented, but not better than Nash.....he's a better scorer, but Nash is CLEARLY the better player. If Dallas would have found a way to keep him.....ya'll probably could have KEPT those parade routes. lol

Underdog
10-04-2006, 09:13 AM
Is that a broken record I hear? This debate is based soley on homerism from both sides... Yawn...

[please let this thread die!]

Five-ofan
10-04-2006, 09:47 AM
^^^^^^^



What? Dwight Howard over Dirk? I'm offically through....i can't believe you say that without laughing at yourself. He's young, athletic and powerful.....GREAT. That will get you 17 and 10boards a night and be considered a star with SOME sport writers and fans. Dirk is a SUPERSTAR........Dwight has a LONG way to go, the kid needs a offensive game bad and i'm sure he'll get it, but to say you will take him over Dirk....crazy.

I didn't put Arenas, Bosh and D Howard on that list because they are NOT better than the guys I have on there...I know it's me opinion, but it's really true. You're telling me that you would take D Howard and Bosh over J O'neil? Jermaine is a beast and has proved to be nearly unstopable....inside and out/ both hands around the basket...crazy talent. Arenas is mad talented, but not better than Nash.....he's a better scorer, but Nash is CLEARLY the better player. If Dallas would have found a way to keep him.....ya'll probably could have KEPT those parade routes. lol

You do realize that jermaine oneals post game is about even with dirks right? Im not saying that to compliment dirk either... JO is one of if not the most overrated players in the nba and yes i would take bosh and d12 over him. D12 is based more on potential than anything though.

Remember i said this though, beware the ridiculously talented third year big man. 24 and 12 wouldnt suprise me at all.

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 10:22 AM
You do realize that jermaine oneals post game is about even with dirks right? Im not saying that to compliment dirk either... JO is one of if not the most overrated players in the nba and yes i would take bosh and d12 over him. D12 is based more on potential than anything though.

Remember i said this though, beware the ridiculously talented third year big man. 24 and 12 wouldnt suprise me at all.

Wow!! jermaine oneil is really really good...hard to believe that ya'll don't see this. Inside game is sick.....midrange game 15-18ft is just as good. He and his team were a lil under the radar because of injuries, but that doesn't excluded how talented he is. When D Hoawrd develops a midrange game....he willl be unstoppable, until then....he's just big, talented and young. If you're not Shaq, you can't make a living dunking on people consistantly and be called a superstar.....Teams will find a way to stop you. Ask Amare.
He was a superior talent...then he spent a summer with Tim Duncan. He came back with a 16fter and a star he became. YOU CAN'T STOP HIM NOW....no way to guard him with that inside/outside game.

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
Is that a broken record I hear? This debate is based soley on homerism from both sides... Yawn...

[please let this thread die!]

Read the last few post Underdog.....we've been talking about the NBA in general.

Five-ofan
10-04-2006, 10:49 AM
Wow!! jermaine oneil is really really good...hard to believe that ya'll don't see this. Inside game is sick.....midrange game 15-18ft is just as good. He and his team were a lil under the radar because of injuries, but that doesn't excluded how talented he is. When D Hoawrd develops a midrange game....he willl be unstoppable, until then....he's just big, talented and young. If you're not Shaq, you can't make a living dunking on people consistantly and be called a superstar.....Teams will find a way to stop you. Ask Amare.
He was a superior talent...then he spent a summer with Tim Duncan. He came back with a 16fter and a star he became. YOU CAN'T STOP HIM NOW....no way to guard him with that inside/outside game.
he got a pg is what he got, his jumper was never that good, as for JO i will ask the question i always ask about him, if you think hes so good in the post why does he always shoot the %s he does(until this year)? He is a face up player, not a post player. It amazes me that enough people dont watch his game to actually see this. He has abot the same career fg% as dirk who is universally recognized as a perimeter player

sike
10-04-2006, 10:54 AM
So Wells signing with chokecity, right?

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 11:00 AM
he got a pg is what he got, his jumper was never that good, as for JO i will ask the question i always ask about him, if you think hes so good in the post why does he always shoot the %s he does(until this year)? He is a face up player, not a post player. It amazes me that enough people dont watch his game to actually see this. He has abot the same career fg% as dirk who is universally recognized as a perimeter player

Come on....give Amare some credit. lol That jumper is God awful ugly....but he developed one and it opened his game something ridiculous.

JO starts in post more times than not...( watch a lot of Pacer games courtesy of league pass) he starts with his back to basket and reverse pivot a lot. Most of his 80% of his damage is done within 8ft from the basket....that's a inside game, but he settles for 15fter when that shoulder bothered him last season....I understand what you're saying though

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 11:01 AM
So Wells signing with chokecity, right?

signed and delivered.......why do we have to be chokecity man? lol June wasn't that far away...you remember June huh?

sike
10-04-2006, 11:08 AM
signed and delivered.......why do we have to be chokecity man? lol June wasn't that far away...you remember June huh?
Yeah...I had an amazing June...I remember the Mavs taking games 1 and 2...and then...for some strange reason....I have no more memory of the month....

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 11:13 AM
Yeah...I had an amazing June...I remember the Mavs taking games 1 and 2...and then...for some strange reason....I have no more memory of the month....

lol....I understand. Atleast you got there man. Let's start over and run it again

sike
10-04-2006, 11:14 AM
sounds good ;)




















































chokecity

TheDiggler
10-04-2006, 11:23 AM
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/pics/19078_dt.jpg

I'm sorry.....I didn't hear that last part lol

Tokey41
10-04-2006, 08:27 PM
^^^^^^^



What? Dwight Howard over Dirk? I'm offically through....i can't believe you say that without laughing at yourself. He's young, athletic and powerful.....GREAT. That will get you 17 and 10boards a night and be considered a star with SOME sport writers and fans. Dirk is a SUPERSTAR........Dwight has a LONG way to go, the kid needs a offensive game bad and i'm sure he'll get it, but to say you will take him over Dirk....crazy.

I didn't put Arenas, Bosh and D Howard on that list because they are NOT better than the guys I have on there...I know it's me opinion, but it's really true. You're telling me that you would take D Howard and Bosh over J O'neil? Jermaine is a beast and has proved to be nearly unstopable....inside and out/ both hands around the basket...crazy talent. Arenas is mad talented, but not better than Nash.....he's a better scorer, but Nash is CLEARLY the better player. If Dallas would have found a way to keep him.....ya'll probably could have KEPT those parade routes. lol

Laughing at myself? Its called potential, and thats todays lesson. So you would pick Lebron over Tmac and Dirk based on "what he will become" but cant seem to grasp the concept of Dwights, Wades, Boshs, Arenas, even Melo's potential? I'm strongly convinced of D12's ability and whether you want to agree with it or not I would take him over Dirk and especially Tmac for the years he has left to improve into a monster. You obviously havent taken his age into consideration and improvement over his two season. Its not a secret I value talented youth with poetntial, and everyone listed above fits that category. I certainly wouldnt pick Nash ahead of Arenas at this point (laugh at yourself for that one man), wouldnt even consider it... its a miracle hes been playing at the level he has been over the last two years but hes in his 30's, Arenas is the better selection keeping everything in mind... I mean he has improved his scoring every single year hes been in the league (although I would be shocked if he could continue the trend this coming season).

And yes... you highly overate JO, its ridiculous that you would take him over a younger Bosh (who already does virtually the same things plus his future upside) and Howard is already a better defender by my estimate, his offense will come no question. If anything Bosh is the one who is uderated, everyone forgets him in that star studded class for some reason and im not sure why.

sike
10-05-2006, 12:55 AM
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/pics/19078_dt.jpg

I'm sorry.....I didn't hear that last part lol
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Park/5127/trophyroom.html

check and mate. ;)

Five-ofan
10-12-2006, 09:58 AM
A video we can all get some positive from...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyzN53QrFdU&mode=related&search=

fluid.forty.one
10-12-2006, 01:14 PM
I love that video

Five-ofan
10-12-2006, 01:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThyXogDylGQ&mode=related&search=

This one is ALL of dirks points from that game but i didnt feel it was write to leave tmac out. I do love that someone used the song they used for this one and the part at the begining is just funny.

u2sarajevo
10-12-2006, 03:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThyXogDylGQ&mode=related&search=

This one is ALL of dirks points from that game but i didnt feel it was write to leave tmac out. I do love that someone used the song they used for this one and the part at the begining is just funny.Sweet video.... I counted 20 free throws.

Who is that guy? I think he's pretty good.

Flacolaco
10-12-2006, 03:35 PM
Yeah...I had an amazing June...I remember the Mavs taking games 1 and 2...and then...for some strange reason....I have no more memory of the month....

I remember going to a parade, I think......but then I woke up in the bathroom on the floor.... mmmm vodka.....

Five-ofan
11-13-2006, 07:52 AM
If houston gets him, they would be better off going after reggie evans or someone like that though im not a big evans fan and then convincing tmac to be a distributor and not a scorer. Turn him back into Raptor tmac on defense. It would take alot to get him to buy in but if he did, that team would scare the hell out of me...

Tmac
Wells
Battier
Evans
Ming

Let Yao carry the scoring until tmac takes over later(much like the lakers with kobe and shaq) and let tmac play pg while turning him back into the great defender he is quite capable of being. THAT would scare the crap out of me. Rolling with Rafer, Tmac, Battier, Wells, Ming? Not so much...
They dont do exactly that, they roll with Alston/head, Tmac, Battier, Hayes, Ming or when Hayes went down/is on the bench, wells but the main point was make tmac the distributor and yao the scorer, they have done that, which scares the hell out of me to be honest.

Edit- The difference is they go with an extra shooter instead of the pf when hayes is out. Due to Yaos dominance, that is ok.