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kriD
11-06-2006, 07:50 AM
Golden years

Once again, Don Nelson has a Warrior's heart

By ART GARCIA
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Cigar in one hand, glass of wine in the other, the occupant of the Presidential Suite is winding down after a preseason game, on his balcony with Marina del Rey bathed in the moonlight down below.

A visitor from Texas is sharing the evening, although he's facing away from the harbor and the endless slips of private yachts. Don Nelson begins to coach.

"Turn around," he orders, "and enjoy this view."

Nellie sure is. Again.

Don Nelson, 66, spent more than a year enjoying life. Enjoying all that can't be done with shootarounds in the way.

Joy, his wife, rode shotgun for the Nelson Retirement Tour. He explored New Zealand, enjoyed a new summer home on Cedar Creek Lake and a new bar, and watched whales in Maui. Playing shuffleboard with Owen Wilson, playing poker with Willie Nelson, and a failed HBO pilot also helped eat up the 18 months bridging Nelson's coaching resignation from the Mavericks and resurrection in Golden State.

Everyone said he was coming back. Retirement be damned. Gregg Popovich half-joked during Nelson's farewell party last fall that it wouldn't be the last such celebration.

The coaching bug began to burrow into Nelson's psyche during March Madness. It didn't wane during the NBA playoffs and the Mavs' run to the Finals.

"I thought I might coach again after the year," Nelson said. "I wouldn't have coached during the year. The itch just never went away. It stayed all summer. I guess that was the start of it."

Enter old friend Chris Mullin. The president of the Warriors needed a spark. He needed to bring excitement back to the Bay. He needed to win. He needed a coach.

He needed Nelson.

But it wasn't as simple as just handing over the keys to the Warriors. Mullin had a few questions that needed to be answered before he could entertain any thought of Nelson returning to the franchise that hasn't made the playoffs since he left more than a decade ago.

Mullin asked Nelson: "Do you feel good coaching this team? Are you getting back into coaching to see if you could coach, or is this a fit for all of us? That's more pertinent than, 'Can he coach after a year off?' That didn't even enter into my consciousness."

Recharged, Nelson was ready to coach again. He had interest in the Golden State and Sacramento openings, but the Kings didn't call.

Mullin did. And although Nelson isn't one to shortchange himself when it comes to money, Mullin didn't simply buy the man he said "saved his life" from alcoholism nearly 20 years ago.

Nelson accepted a modest -- by NBA coaching standards -- $9 million guaranteed for three years. Sure, there are plenty of incentives built into the deal, but it's unlikely Nelson will approach the $5 million he made annually on his last Mavs contract.

So why would Nelson want to coach again for less money after living la vida tropica?

"Because I'm good at it," he said. "It's a hard job, and it's not hard for me to do."

Old is new

The Warriors last made the playoffs in 1994. Don Nelson had given up the fish ties by then, had watched Run TMC come and go, and was about to lose a power struggle with Chris Webber. He was fired after a 14-31 start during the 1994-95 season. A bitter lawsuit over money -- what else? -- would follow with Warriors owner Chris Cohan.

For all that went wrong at the end of his seven-year Oakland run, the Warriors were more right under Nelson than anytime since. The eight coaches gapping the bridge from Nelson to Nelson went 318-589.

Nelson knows he can win. He's second all-time in wins (1,191) in NBA history and has taken three franchises to the playoffs. He also knows he can make the game fun again.

"Developing a losing team into a good one is something I've done a lot of times," Nelson said. "I know how to do it. It's just getting it done. It takes time."

Golden State's players were ready for a change, having tuned out former coach Mike Montgomery. A Warriors official said Nelson immediately brought a measure of "discipline" to the locker room that was missing under Montgomery, a longtime college coach without any NBA cred.

"We already really believe we can win just from him being here," Warriors forward Mike Dunleavy said. "As the season goes on, I think we'll believe even more. He makes us feel good in situations."

There are parallels between these Warriors and the early teams Nelson had with the Mavs. It's debatable whether he's got another Steve Nash-Michael Finley-Dirk Nowitzki trio, but the offensive potential is there with Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy and Dunleavy.

"Nellie felt there were enough pieces and players that could play his style," Mullin said. "You know the way Nellie plays. There is a style and pace you have to keep up with, or you're going to struggle.

"As I watch these guys, I always felt they were capable of playing that way. My personal opinion is there is no one better at it than Nellie."

Davis is a big key. The temperamental point guard could flourish under Nelson, much as Tim Hardaway did with the Warriors in the early '90s.

"Blessing, blessing, blessing," Davis said of his new coach. "A chance to get back to being me and what I wanted to be in this league.

"He's the boss. I'm here to work, do what I'm supposed to, and I know if I listen I'll be all right."

The chance to work with Mullin, plus two other former Warriors in general manager Rod Higgins and special assistant Mitch Richmond, has given Nelson the feeling he lost with the Mavs.

"You would think with all he's accomplished and all the games he's won, he wouldn't be insecure," a close friend of Nelson's said. "But he is. Nellie needs to be wanted."

Nelson admits that.

"This job has been incredible," Nelson said. "I feel wanted and loved and welcome. It's the way the coach and front office should be. Mully and I, Higgy, Mitch, it's a 10 so far, and I would imagine it would continue. It's natural."

The Warriors (1-2) are not generally regarded as a playoff team in the loaded Western Conference. Nelson is ready for the bumps...and losses.

"That can wear you down," Nelson admitted. "Just dealing with the losses when you're coaching a bad team, you have to prepare yourself that you're going to have a lot of bad days."

Nelson did add one caveat.

"It's easier coaching veterans than kids, but it's more rewarding coaching young kids and watching them develop," he said.

"You know they're going to cost you games while they learn. You just have to accept that as part of the deal."

Coming home?

Don Nelson is back in American Airlines Center tonight, an arena he helped christen in 2001. He'll take residence in a bare-bones office without a leather lounger and window overlooking the practice court. He'll walk out onto the court through a different hallway and pace the sidelines at the other end.

He might run into Mavs owner Mark Cuban. Don't expect any pleasantries exchanged. The uneasiness between the two remains.

"We had a very bitter negotiation on my last contract, and it just never recovered after that," Nelson said, referring to talks in the summer of 2003. "We didn't communicate the last couple years and it wasn't as much fun doing the job. They made personnel moves without me knowing, so I thought it was time to step aside.

"If you don't have a relationship with the owner, it's time to move on. It's that simple. I like Mark Cuban a lot. He doesn't like me all that much. I have no problems with him, and he has a problem with me."

After resigning as coach with 18 games left in the 2004-05 season, and Avery Johnson's ensuing promotion to head coach, Nelson moved into a consultant role. One he was supposed to have through 2011.

Cuban called him the "godfather" of the organization. He felt more like the unwanted uncle.

"I was never used as a consultant," Nelson said. "Mark never called and he wouldn't return my e-mails."

Though he was still part of the organization, Nelson said he wasn't allowed to attend the summer league or board the team plane.

Nelson did attend one practice, at Johnson's suggestion, but otherwise kept away.

"It's not Avery, it's the ownership," Nelson added. "I just felt uncomfortable being around too much, so I decided not to be around. You know when you're not wanted."

The war of wills with Cuban appears far from over. Nelson has accused the billionaire of holding back $6.6 million in deferred compensation built into his contract with previous owner Ross Perot, and the last deal signed with Cuban.

Nelson agreed to defer a significant part of his salary, without interest, to help Perot's bottom line. Nelson said he received the deferred payments for two years before Cuban ceased.

"I'm being punished by the team I did a favor for," Nelson said. "I hope Mark Cuban comes to his senses and pays me the money he owes me."

Asked about Nelson's return and contributions to the Mavs' franchise, Cuban said: "I have nothing to say at all. He coaches the bad guys now."

Nelson was part of the Mavs' family for nine years, six under Cuban. Doesn't that mean something?

"It's not if you leave, it's how you leave," Cuban explained. "[Michael Finley] is a great example. He gave 110 percent every minute he was here and didn't leave by his choice.

"I will boo him every minute he has a Spurs jersey on, but after he retires, if he ever needed my help for anything, I would go out of my way to help him. My level of respect for Fin has and always will be as high as it can be."

Don't bet on the same with Nelson.

For others, Nelson's return is more sweet than bitter.

"The fans should really welcome him back," Avery Johnson said. "He's been a huge part of the success in helping getting this franchise back going in the right direction."

Nelson just wants to get through what he is sure will be an uncomfortable evening. He recalled getting booed in his first return to Golden State as New York Knicks coach.

"I don't think one person in the arena is going to boo Nellie," Johnson said.

Nelson also comes to town the same night the Mavs' Western Conference championship banner goes into the rafters. He knows he had a part in it.

"All I ever wanted to do was retire here and have a friendly association with the Mavs," Nelson said. "That seems to be impossible now.

"But I tell you one thing, I'll be the proudest guy in the area when they raise that flag."

MAVS LIGHT? Don Nelson's Golden State starting five is similar in style to his primary starters during the Mavs' 60-win season of 2002-03:

PG Baron Davis (6-3, 223), Steve Nash (6-3, 195): Both are dynamic performers who can do it all. The difference: Davis isn't always in shape or motivated.

SG Jason Richardson (6-6, 220), Michael Finley (6-7, 215): Richardson is a younger version of Finley: athletic, dynamic and more of a scorer than pure shooter.

SF Mickael Pietrus (6-6, 200), Adrian Griffin (6-5, 215): Quintessential dirty-work role players; Pietrus has the ability to be an elite defender.

PF Mike Dunleavy (6-9, 221), Dirk Nowitzki (7-0, 250): When Dunleavy was drafted in 2002, he was called a Nowitzki clone. Now in his fifth season, it's clear he is not.

C Troy Murphy (6-11, 245), Raef LaFrentz (6-11, 240): Undersized centers who can shoot the 3. Murphy is a rebounder; LaFrentz a shot-blocker.

fluid.forty.one
11-06-2006, 09:36 AM
"But I tell you one thing, I'll be the proudest guy in the area when they raise that flag." - Don Nelson

<3 Nellie

jacktruth
11-06-2006, 09:58 AM
I used to like Cuban, but as the years go by, I dislike him more and more. It think it took a serious turn during the Miami series last year. There is nothing worse to me than a punk kid who doesn't respect history. Cuban is more than that, I hope, but sometimes I wonder.

Although picking the GSW game to raise the flag gives me a glimmer of hope.

As a loyal and devoted Mavs fan, Nellie was the greatest thing to happen to this franchise for a long, long time. His work for the mavs has brought much much more than his salary costs.

Darth Ape
11-06-2006, 12:59 PM
This article reminds me how much I dislike Mark Cuban. What a truly sorry sack of shit he is.

TomThaMavsFan
11-06-2006, 01:15 PM
The Mavericks owe so much to Don Nelson for the team he created here. I'm glad the banner will go up when he's here, so he will also get to join in the moment, when the team enjoys what they accomplished last year

Flacolaco
11-06-2006, 01:18 PM
The Mavericks owe so much to Don Nelson for the team he created here. I'm glad the banner will go up when he's here, so he will also get to join in the moment, when the team enjoys what they accomplished last year

true enough. however,

Im fairly sure that his emotional involvement in the moment is meant to go the other way

jthig32
11-06-2006, 01:35 PM
This article reminds me how much I dislike Mark Cuban. What a truly sorry sack of shit he is.

Or maybe Nelson is more of a fraud in the public eye than you're willing to admit.

There's dirt on both party's hands in all of this. Don't act like Nelson was a saint his last year here.

Darth Ape
11-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Or maybe Nelson is more of a fraud in the public eye than you're willing to admit.

There's dirt on both party's hands in all of this. Don't act like Nelson was a saint his last year here.

If Nelson is a fraud in the public eye, then the public has been brainwashed. True, Nelson's heart wasn't in it his last year. But this was a perfectly understandable reaction to how he was treated. Nelson was hurt and disrespected by his owner. He was shit on left and right by Cuban. He didn't want to be here, and I don't blame him!

Look at this from Nelson's view. He knows the owner is doing everything in his power to weaken Nelson's control over the team. He's dismantling the team he put together while blasting him in the press. Nelson loves this team. Loves the players, loves Avery, loves Donnie. But he knows he can't coach this team. Not with the owner being a baby about everything. So what's the best way out? I don't care how rich Nelson is, $5M is a lot of money. It doesn't make sense to quit. Cuban won't do the right thing and fire him. So Nelson figures out the perfect solution. The Mavs get a new coach who will be perfectly willing to be Mark Cuban's monkey bitch on a string, Nelson gets the money that he's owed. Mark Cuban gets what he wants... the spotlight all to himself. The only problem is that idiot Maverick fans can't get their noses out of Cuban's crotch long enough to realize that he's turned them against the best thing to ever happen to this franchise. Mark Cuban should be ashamed of himself for his behavior in this whole mess, but he never will admit his mistakes. And his fans will never admit he's done anything wrong. That's why there isn't much honor left with this franchise. It deserves everything that's coming to it.

kg_veteran
11-06-2006, 02:24 PM
I think Nellie needed to quit, but I think the way Cuban has treated him is deplorable.

Nellie deserves better.

Darth Ape
11-06-2006, 03:17 PM
I think Nellie needed to quit, but I think the way Cuban has treated him is deplorable.

Nellie deserves better.

He may have needed to quit. But again, it's easy for someone sitting on the outside to say he should have walked away from the $5M. I don't think I could have.

kg_veteran
11-06-2006, 03:35 PM
He may have needed to quit. But again, it's easy for someone sitting on the outside to say he should have walked away from the $5M. I don't think I could have.

No, that's not what I meant.

If I were in Nellie's shoes, I wouldn't have walked away from the money, either.

Cuban needs to pay Nellie his money. If not, he needs to have his butt sued.

Stranger
11-06-2006, 04:57 PM
"But I tell you one thing, I'll be the proudest guy in the area when they raise that flag." - Don Nelson

<3 Nellie

That's great. If raising the banner during this game is meant to show up Nellie, it's an absolute disgrace on Cuban's part.

Flacolaco
11-06-2006, 05:16 PM
I don't think it matters if it's meant to show up Nellie or not, the fact is that he couldn't get these player to do what Avery did. If he's proud, then that's cool. I love Nellie, he's a funny guy, he gives good interviews. I'm just glad he's not the coach and the Mavs aren't playing Phx Suns ball anymore.

Cuban is being such a bastard about his money though. Pay that man is money.

mkat
11-06-2006, 10:26 PM
This article reminds me how much I dislike Mark Cuban. What a truly sorry sack of shit he is.

yeah. he only funded a team that appeared in the finals last year. what a sack of shit.

just keep in mind...no story is one sided.

i do love nelson though.

chumdawg
11-06-2006, 11:34 PM
I'd like to take this moment to reflect on what a glorious evening this must have been for one of the two or three greatest figures in Dallas Mavericks history. To be treated like shit by your employer, for whom which you brought excellence to his franchise...and then to have millions of dollars stolen from you by that same said owner...and then to bring a lottery team into his arena on the night he hung the WCF championship banner that you spilled blood earning...

Well, that's a pretty good night for Nellie.

Also nice to see one of his old charges, Buckner, playing a big role in the game. I'm sure the greatest coach in Dallas Mavericks history will rest well tonight.

Way to go, Nellie. Some of us still appreciate the years and years of joy you gave us. I'd put up with ten years of that 90's-crap-Mavs-basketball just for one more season of you and your genius ways filling the AAC with hope and joy.

Cheers, pardner!

Darth Ape
11-06-2006, 11:39 PM
Avery can't hold Nellie's jock in terms of coaching skills. period.

If Nelson was the Mavs coach in that Miami series, Mark Cuban would be sporting a championship ring.

The worst thing that ever could have happened to the Mavs is Mark Cuban.

MavKikiNYC
11-06-2006, 11:39 PM
3-point regular season win. Finals appearance. 3 point-regular season win. Finals appearance. Hmmm....

chumdawg
11-06-2006, 11:56 PM
Kiki, I think you were searching for the words of Bum Phillips:

"He can take your'n and beat his'n, then he can take his'n and beat your'n."

Thanks for participating.

MavKikiNYC
11-06-2006, 11:57 PM
Bum Phillips never played for a championship either.


Love ya Blue.

Darth Ape
11-07-2006, 12:05 AM
Nelson: Worst to First
Avery: First to Worst

kg_veteran
11-07-2006, 12:09 AM
Once again, the facts don't match up with the Ape's opinions.

MavKikiNYC
11-07-2006, 12:10 AM
Where's the vBookie thread on who gets a team to the playoffs first--Nellie or Avery?

chumdawg
11-07-2006, 12:19 AM
Bum Phillips never played for a championship either.


Love ya Blue.He was talking about Shula. I think Shula may have played for one or two.

MavKikiNYC
11-07-2006, 12:26 AM
He was talking about Shula. I think Shula may have played for one or two.
Then the comparison to Shula implied by the quotation really wasn't appropriate was it? In any case, it wasn't parallel.

Because Nelson never took a team to championship contention.

Like Bum, however, Nellie was close a time or two, but couldn't quite ever get over the hump.

And like Bum did with Earl, Nellie kinda rode Finley (and later Nash) into the ground.

And like Bum did with Wade, Nellie tried to foist his son onto the league as head coaching material when he really wasn't cut out for it.

But ultimately, I have to agree with you---Don Nelson was a great contributor to the league, a superb innovator; one of the longest serving coaches in the history of the game never to get a team into an NBA Finals. Nellie, we salute you, and wish you well.

mary
11-07-2006, 12:48 AM
Nelson: Worst to First
Avery: First to Worst


How exactly are you defining "First"??

Avery took the Mavs to the NBA Finals and Nelson didn't get them past the Western Conference Finals.

That is a fact. It is undisputable. It is not based on opinion.

chumdawg
11-07-2006, 01:39 AM
Then the comparison to Shula implied by the quotation really wasn't appropriate was it? In any case, it wasn't parallel.

Because Nelson never took a team to championship contention.

Like Bum, however, Nellie was close a time or two, but couldn't quite ever get over the hump.

And like Bum did with Earl, Nellie kinda rode Finley (and later Nash) into the ground.

And like Bum did with Wade, Nellie tried to foist his son onto the league as head coaching material when he really wasn't cut out for it.

But ultimately, I have to agree with you---Don Nelson was a great contributor to the league, a superb innovator; one of the longest serving coaches in the history of the game never to get a team into an NBA Finals. Nellie, we salute you, and wish you well.Nice try, darlin'.

Clearly I was equating your bumblin', stumblin' words with the uneducated-sounding yet poignantly accurate words of someone who has been there, seen it, and done that.

Someone who *knows*, if you will.

In case it's news to you, Nash is still playing. Finley, too. In fact, Nash won the Most Valuable Player trophy twice after Mark Cuban decided Nellie had ridden him into the turf. You will, I am certain, forgive me for not grasping this attempt at a point.

If I'm not mistaken, Donnie Nelson has yet to coach an NBA possession. But he is, in fact, regarded among the elite levels of general managers, with particular regard to his proficiency in scouting the international game. You meant to compare Wade Phillips and Donnie Nelson?

I'm glad we agree in the end about the contribution Nellie has made, and continues to make, to the NBA. I'm sure that I am looking just as forward as you are to the day when he is enshrined in the NBA Hall of Fame.

P.S. Again, sorry 'bout your Knicks.

Rhylan
11-07-2006, 10:57 AM
Let's think about this... sure, in terms of general public persona, Nellie is way more likeable than Cuban. Nellie is your wise, funny uncle that drinks beer all the time, Cuban can be annoying.

Yet.. why is it that Nellie is so willing to share details of the falling out and Cuban isn't? Cuban is Mr. Outspoken. I dunno.. it's a sad deal because Nellie deserves to be revered around here, but you have to wonder why he's so eager to tell his version and Cuban isn't.

dude1394
11-07-2006, 11:42 AM
Thinking that nellie has no part in all of this is naive. Nellie hasn't been fired from other teams because they all "hated him". He was fired because he wasn't getting the job done, or he got crosswise with management. Or probably he griped about money, sounds like his MO to be honest.

I have no problem with him griping about money, but I just don't believe he's a saint and every other owner are asses, doesn't work like that.

MavKikiNYC
11-07-2006, 11:44 AM
Nice try, darlin'.

Clearly I was equating your bumblin', stumblin' words with the uneducated-sounding yet poignantly accurate words of someone who has been there, seen it, and done that.

Someone who *knows*, if you will.

In case it's news to you, Nash is still playing. Finley, too. In fact, Nash won the Most Valuable Player trophy twice after Mark Cuban decided Nellie had ridden him into the turf. You will, I am certain, forgive me for not grasping this attempt at a point.

If I'm not mistaken, Donnie Nelson has yet to coach an NBA possession. But he is, in fact, regarded among the elite levels of general managers, with particular regard to his proficiency in scouting the international game. You meant to compare Wade Phillips and Donnie Nelson?

I'm glad we agree in the end about the contribution Nellie has made, and continues to make, to the NBA. I'm sure that I am looking just as forward as you are to the day when he is enshrined in the NBA Hall of Fame.

P.S. Again, sorry 'bout your Knicks.

CD, just keep driving that banged up old jalopy of your perception right into that brick wall of immutable facts--in 30 years, Nellie never made it to the Finals; Avery got there in his first full year on the job. Gotta sting, doesn't it.

BTW, you are mistaken--Donnie has coached not only a possession, but a streak of about 20 games. It was he who filled in for Nellie post-surgery. But drivin' the old man's Caddy around while he's asleep isn't the same as running your own team. Donnie may well be top-flight executive material, but there's a reason he had the 'Little' in front of the 'Whistle'.

Keep writing, friend. I occasionally enjoy your absurdity.

P.S.: Don't cry for me re the Knicks. They will be the most entertaining they've been in years, if for no other reason than to watch Zeke's boys give it to him dry.

Huge boos for all involved at opening night in the Garden, chants of "RE-FUND, RE-FUND!" directed at Dolan, a Marbury meltdown of 1-9 shooting, with more turnovers (6) than points and assists combined (5).

It don't get no better than that.

Darth Ape
11-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Let's think about this... sure, in terms of general public persona, Nellie is way more likeable than Cuban. Nellie is your wise, funny uncle that drinks beer all the time, Cuban can be annoying.

Yet.. why is it that Nellie is so willing to share details of the falling out and Cuban isn't? Cuban is Mr. Outspoken. I dunno.. it's a sad deal because Nellie deserves to be revered around here, but you have to wonder why he's so eager to tell his version and Cuban isn't.

1) Because he wants the money he's owed
2) Because Nellie is right and Cuban is wrong. Cuban knows it, so he's keeping his mouth shut.

sike
11-07-2006, 02:01 PM
does Cuban ever talk about money issues?

mkat
11-07-2006, 02:31 PM
1) Because he wants the money he's owed
2) Because Nellie is right and Cuban is wrong. Cuban knows it, so he's keeping his mouth shut.

hang out with cuban a lot, do ya?

ty
11-07-2006, 02:34 PM
hahah, yah there is no problem with money for Cuban, unless he would be giving it away wrongfully

that's why it pisses him off when people email him asking him for money and such.

Darth Ape
11-07-2006, 03:06 PM
I think Cuban's just ticked because Nellie got the better of him. He certainly has never shown himself to be a very good sport.

alexamenos
11-07-2006, 04:08 PM
Or maybe Nelson is more of a fraud in the public eye than you're willing to admit.

There's dirt on both party's hands in all of this. Don't act like Nelson was a saint his last year here.

that's kind of the way I see this....Nellie is playing the "I'm just the saintly ole man who did everything right now I'm the victim" bit, but I ain't bitin' on it.

As I understand matters....

Nellie was absolutely going through the motions in '04. It was evident to multiple parties involved, including Nellie, that Nellie needed to step aside and let Johnson take over.

So....Nellie's offer to Cuban was either a) pay me $3 million to step aside; or b) I'll continue to do a half-assed job coaching the team and you can pay me the $3 million you're contractually obliged to pay the team.

That is, Nellie's position was that he'd sell the team's best interests out for $3 million.

This idea that Nellie was always just interested in doing what was best for the team is horse-poop. The guy was ready to ride the team down to get his $.

cheers

david12sfa
11-07-2006, 04:33 PM
"....for the record, I have nothing to say about the finals. That was last season." Mark Cuban, 6/22/06 "

What does he have to say for this season? 0 for the year! Damn the Mavs suck. They need to bring Brad Davis back!

chumdawg
11-07-2006, 04:55 PM
Boy, I'm not sure I buy the suggestion that Nellie wasn't doing his job in '04. As I recall, that was a pretty good team Johnson took over. I seem to remember a beautiful 5-0 road trip out West, where we beat the Suns among other playoff teams.

He may not have been real happy about it. Certainly he was displeased that the Mickey Mouse owner was meddling in personnel decisions and generally appearing to undermine the coach at every turn, but the man still did his damn job.

alexamenos
11-07-2006, 05:40 PM
Boy, I'm not sure I buy the suggestion that Nellie wasn't doing his job in '04. As I recall, that was a pretty good team Johnson took over. I seem to remember a beautiful 5-0 road trip out West, where we beat the Suns among other playoff teams.

He may not have been real happy about it. Certainly he was displeased that the Mickey Mouse owner was meddling in personnel decisions and generally appearing to undermine the coach at every turn, but the man still did his damn job.

They were 20 games over 500 before Johnson (bj), 18 games later they finished the season 34 games over 500.....the following season they made it to the NBA finals and Johnson was named NBA Coach of the year.

Obviously you're aware of all this, and only point out because what every talent may have been assembled on the team prior to Nellie's departure, that talent has unquestionably been put to much better use since his departure.

Regardless, I believe the undisputed facts are these:

--Nelson didn't want to coach anymore;
--Nelson expected Cuban to pay him for not working.

I think it takes some substantial juevos to cry victim when someone doesn't pay you not to work.

Cheers

alexamenos
11-07-2006, 05:54 PM
So what's the best way out? I don't care how rich Nelson is, $5M is a lot of money. It doesn't make sense to quit. Cuban won't do the right thing and fire him. So Nelson figures out the perfect solution. The Mavs get a new coach who will be perfectly willing to be Mark Cuban's monkey bitch on a string, Nelson gets the money that he's owed.

*Monkey Bitch on a String*

That's a really interesting description of Avery Johnson, a relatively diminutive black man with a high-pitched voice...I don't think I could've come up with this phrase, personally.

I think *NBA Coach of the Year* is a more apt description.

Cheers

dirno2000
11-07-2006, 07:30 PM
*Monkey Bitch on a String*

That's a really interesting description of Avery Johnson, a relatively diminutive black man with a high-pitched voice...I don't think I could've come up with this phrase, personally.

I think *NBA Coach of the Year* is a more apt description.

Cheers

In an NBA area that'll get your season tickets revoked but here it's just ape being ape or aexchange being aexchange.

Drbio
11-07-2006, 07:40 PM
In an NBA area that'll get your season tickets revoked but here it's just ape being ape or aexchange being aexchange.

Aex? Did I miss something?

mkat
11-07-2006, 08:23 PM
The Mavs get a new coach who will be perfectly willing to be Mark Cuban's monkey bitch on a string, it.

did you actually say 'monkey bitch' on a string? wow....talk about an idiot.

besides, i think avery's record and his appearance in the finals speaks volumes about what kind of coach he is.

MavKikiNYC
11-07-2006, 09:14 PM
Then, with the game still in doubt, Terry was assessed a Flagrant Foul Penalty Two and ejected from the game by Crawford when he inadvertently hit Monta Ellis in the face during a fast-break layup attempt with 3:05 left and the Mavs trailing 103-97.


"He took that hard foul," Warriors coach Don Nelson said. "They teach hard fouls here, and I hate to see that. I don't do that, actually."


With Terry and Howard gone, the Mavs were scraping for someone to help Dirk Nowitzki (26 points).
"Jason Terry getting thrown out of the game obviously hurt us, because obviously we can use his offense," Johnson said. "X-rays, were negative on Howard. He'll have an MRI today and will not make the upcoming three-game road trip to the Los Angeles Clippers, Phoenix and Portland.


Fat Bastard goes out of his way to take a dig at Avery.

Nellie doesn't teach hard fouls OR defense. That's why he loses the ones that matter.

F'em.

Darth Ape
11-07-2006, 09:33 PM
And Avery wins them? har har. He looked like a fool in the finals last year. Pat Riley made him look like a little kid. He was way in over his head in the finals.

Tokey41
11-07-2006, 09:51 PM
Nellies a failure, Avery made it farther in his first year as a coach than Nelson did his entire time here. He is NOT missed. Period.

V2M
11-07-2006, 09:53 PM
Riley teaches 'harder' fouls!

mary
11-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Edit: Nevermind.

chumdawg
11-15-2006, 03:13 AM
Holla at you boy when you see him on the street.

4-3 for the Warriors. Baron Davis playing like he knows how to play this game.

Don't sleep on the Warriors.

Thespiralgoeson
11-15-2006, 03:18 AM
And Avery wins them? har har. He looked like a fool in the finals last year. Pat Riley made him look like a little kid.

Maybe that's because compared to Pat Reilly, he IS a little kid. Pat Reilly is a friggin legend. Avery Johnson was a first year coach.

He was way in over his head in the finals.

Maybe. But he WAS in the finals.

fluid.forty.one
11-15-2006, 03:20 AM
Apparently the players deserve props for getting by Pop and the spurs, but avery deserves the blame for losing to Riley and the heat.

Thespiralgoeson
11-15-2006, 03:31 AM
Apparently the players deserve props for getting by Pop and the spurs, but avery deserves the blame for losing to Riley and the heat.

Oh, no, I'm sure Erick Dampier deserves as great a share of the blame.

chumdawg
11-15-2006, 03:39 AM
I'm pretty sure that Don Nelson would have allowed neither Johnson nor Dampier to suffer that indignity.

EricaLubarsky
11-15-2006, 03:42 AM
Nelson is doing a nice job running that same offense that he had in Dallas (looks a hell of a lot like Phoenix's too). He's got some nice players like Ellis. The only thing I see wrong with his coaching is that his team cant play defense at all and he's playing Baron Davis like he was a 20 year old Kobe. Its ridiculous how fast Davis is going to wear down.

I see the warriors winning 45 games this year and if that gets them to the playoffs, then they will.

chumdawg
11-15-2006, 03:45 AM
It's ridiculous how much you underestimate the athleticism of a world-class athlete.

But believable.

EricaLubarsky
11-15-2006, 03:58 AM
its ridiculous how much of an antagonist you can be on all levels, day in and day out

And when did Baron Davis become a journeyman? Baron Davis didnt rest the entire game until late in the 4th. ESPN has him at 45 min. Is that what you want for a guy that has missed more games than he's played recently, a guy known for his late-season weardown and injury. As a coach is a win at home against Toronto THAT important that you'd do that?

dude1394
11-15-2006, 05:38 AM
Maybe. But he WAS in the finals.

Now that is a SCOREBOARD moment. Nicely done.

dude1394
11-15-2006, 05:40 AM
its ridiculous how much of an antagonist you can be on all levels, day in and day out

And when did Baron Davis become a journeyman? Baron Davis didnt rest the entire game until late in the 4th. ESPN has him at 45 min. Is that what you want for a guy that has missed more games than he's played recently, a guy known for his late-season weardown and injury. As a coach is a win at home against Toronto THAT important that you'd do that?

Hmm...is THAT why stevie had a reputation of wearing down in the playoffs? Nelson DID play his starters too much, always did.

MavsX
11-15-2006, 08:22 AM
this thread is still be used?

aexchange
11-15-2006, 11:17 AM
In an NBA area that'll get your season tickets revoked but here it's just ape being ape or aexchange being aexchange.

just caught this, but what the hell?

EricaLubarsky
11-16-2006, 06:18 AM
Nelson is a douche. According to reports in a few news sources, he's openly lamenting that he wasnt offered the Kings coaching job-- even as he's taken over as coach of the Warriors.

the guy did wonderful things for the franchise but the guy is a loser.

chumdawg
11-16-2006, 07:04 PM
Just a heads up that you'll be able to watch the razzlin'-dazzlin' greatness of the rejuventated Warriors on TNT tonight. Enjoy!

chumdawg
11-16-2006, 10:56 PM
Boy, if you aren't watching this game, you are missing out! It's like a time machine!

chumdawg
11-16-2006, 11:16 PM
The Warriors hung 40 in the first quarter, and Davis has already ELEVEN assists. Two highlight-worthy alley-oops, a ton of fast break points, and some terrific rebounding from the big Latvian in the middle. Not to mention this 21-year-old Ellis kid.

Damn, this team is fun to watch.

chumdawg
11-17-2006, 01:09 AM
It certainly doesn't take Don Nelson long to implement his brand of basketball. This Davis cat? Hell, if Nash won two MVP's, this guy could win five!

chumdawg
11-17-2006, 01:39 AM
Don't look now, but the Warriors are 6-3 and Baron Davis might be an MVP candidate.

Flacolaco
11-17-2006, 02:13 AM
Wow....so when I post a bunch of times in a row in the Dallas Stars threads, do I look like Chum posting in the Nellie thread over and over again?

I guess we all have our favorites....

chumdawg
11-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Flaco, I can't take responsibility for all the tails between the legs of erstwhile Don Nelson fans. Me, I'm waving the flag!

EricaLubarsky
11-17-2006, 04:08 AM
Nelson is a douche. You gotta love him for what he did with Dallas and Dirk, but realistically the guy's personality is up there with Ike Thomas and Larry Brown. That BS he pulled on the flagrant was even more reason to dislike him.

He's actually the only reason I want the Warriors to lose-- the warriors are likeable and fun to watch even if they are sloppy and not all that fundamentally sound.

Darth Ape
11-17-2006, 08:55 AM
The Warriors are playing sloppy right now and still blowing out good teams. What do you think will happen when the team starts to get it? There has always been a ton of talent on that Warriors roster. Now that they have one of the best coaches in the history of the NBA, watch out.

Dirkadirkastan
11-17-2006, 09:48 AM
What do you think will happen when the team starts to get it?

They'll be good enough to run out of gas in the conference finals just like their predecessors (Pheonix Suns, Nelson's Mavericks). It will take them a couple of years to be that good, though.

Darth Ape
11-17-2006, 09:55 AM
Nelson looks like he really has something in Biedrins. A run and gun team with a
seven foot rebounding, shotblocking presense? That's a scary thought.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2006, 12:34 PM
Davis is an incredible player, but at the current pace, he's going to wear down pretty quick. Looks like Nellie's riding him into the ground like he did all those years with Finley.

sike
11-17-2006, 01:16 PM
Davis was insane last night...

GP
11-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Well, I watched most of the Warriors-Kings game last night. It was a fine ballgame and Baron Davis certainly looks like he is rejuvenated and is actually in shape. As far as I know the only physical problems he has ever had was his back. That is really not an injury that can be rested during the game because backs can become stiff. I am not sure though. I think Nellie will reign in his minutes once Richardson comes back to form and Murphy comes back from his injury. This team also seems to pass the ball pretty well and doesn't rely on iso's all of the time. If this team can continually improve throughout the year they are going to make the playoffs and maybe make some noise. The west is going to be real tough this year. There are at least 10 teams with the talent to make the playoffs. I hope the Mavs don't fall back this year because a 50 win team just might not make the playoffs this year. Question: If Baron Davis continues to play like this and the Warriors win 55 games does that mean he'll be the MVP and Nellie will get another coach of the year awards?

mqywaaah
11-17-2006, 01:38 PM
I will never boo Nellie. Even when the bay boys won on our banner unveiling night, I never booed Nellie. I'd boo his team, but when the cameras shone on Nelly, I cant help but put a smily smirk on my face. Im proud of that guy! And after reading Cubans planned treatment on Nellie, I horribly realized that Cuban could suck hardcore at times more often than not. Damn, what is effn wrong with Cubes?

Darth Ape
11-17-2006, 02:35 PM
Davis is an incredible player, but at the current pace, he's going to wear down pretty quick. Looks like Nellie's riding him into the ground like he did all those years with Finley.

Baron Davis: 37.8 mpg
Dirk Nowitzki: 39.1 mpg

EricaLubarsky
11-17-2006, 03:34 PM
Baron Davis: 37.8 mpg
Dirk Nowitzki: 39.1 mpg
how many games did Davis play last year? the year befoer that?

Darth Ape
11-17-2006, 04:04 PM
how many games did Davis play last year? the year befoer that?

And where was Dirk during the Western Conference finals in 2003?

EricaLubarsky
11-17-2006, 04:06 PM
And where was Dirk during the Western Conference finals in 2003?
you really are a moron if you think that Dirk's twisted ankle years ago is some sort of response to running a guy hard that is plagued with injuries more than anyone in the NBA.

Disanalogy 1) Baron Davis is one step from being Grant Hill, Dirk is generally reliable and doesnt miss a lot of games from his ankles
Disanalogy 2) Dirk's injuries are not related, while Davis often has problems that run him the whole season.
Disanalogy 3) This isnt the playoffs-- we're talking about 2 games against lottery teams here early in the season. Toronto? Sacramento? Gimme a break

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:32 AM
It's pretty scary when Baron Davis takes a shot to the ribs and has to leave the game, and Monta Ellis goes off for 31 points, 7 assists, and 6 rebounds, leading the Warriors to another runaway win.

That's 6-3 for Nellie's Warriors.

System, system, system.

Enjoy it, Bay area fans!

V2M
11-19-2006, 02:42 AM
It's pretty scary when Baron Davis takes a shot to the ribs and has to leave the game, and Monta Ellis goes off for 31 points, 7 assists, and 6 rebounds, leading the Warriors to another runaway win.

That's 6-3 for Nellie's Warriors.

System, system, system.

Enjoy it, Bay area fans!
Murphy was out for the game as well...

Thespiralgoeson
11-19-2006, 09:15 AM
And Richardson is still out... Damn, this team could be as good as the 03-04 Mavs, maybe better. I can't help but wonder how good they would be if they still had Dampier, or another legitimate center.

aexchange
11-19-2006, 11:04 AM
And Richardson is still out... Damn, this team could be as good as the 03-04 Mavs, maybe better. I can't help but wonder how good they would be if they still had Dampier, or another legitimate center.

nelson wouldn't play dampier. he had him here in dallas and was reluctant to play him b/c he saw him as a no talent bum.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:16 PM
They do have Foyle, who is at least Dampier Light. But they are going to hang their hat on Biedrins. In this day and age, Biedrins appears to be every bit a legitimate center. If they come across some plodding half-court teams, and feel inclined to play them at their own game, they can always bring in Foyle.

But yes, Spiral, I would not rule out a 50-win season out by the bay.

Darth Ape
11-20-2006, 11:42 AM
And this is no one-man team. Baron Davis sits on the bench with bruised ribs and Monta Ellis comes in and drops 31 on the Sonics. No Davis and no Murphy doesn't mean no victory for these Warriors. It's all about the system and the head coach. I think if Nelson had been the coach of the Mavs in the mid ninties, he would have won 50 games with Donald Hodge, Terry Davis and Scotty Brooks!

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 12:52 AM
Boy, how you like Nellie now? Knocking off the two top teams in the conference in consecutive games.

Pretty salty!

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 12:53 AM
I heard Nellie has never lost a finals game, now that's impressive!

mary
11-28-2006, 12:55 AM
Its good to see a division rival lose a game.

Other than that, I couldn't give two shits about it.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 12:55 AM
Ungrateful son of a bitch.

mary
11-28-2006, 12:57 AM
Ungrateful son of a bitch.


*Yawn*

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 12:58 AM
Nah I love Nellie, I've just seen all this before. I'd love nothing more than to see Nellie win a ring (after the mavs do), but the warriors can't excite me much by doing well in the regular season.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 12:59 AM
Boy, if you have missed the playoffs for ten years running, or whatever it is, and you can't get excited about beating the Spurs...something is wrong. Maybe you have yawning disease.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 01:02 AM
I kinda imagine nowadays that chum is tucked away in a sports bar like Bob Swerkski, except Nellie is his Ditka.

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 01:02 AM
Why would I get excited about that? I haven't followed them. I haven't sat through 10 seasons of missed playoffs. I'm not even close to being a Warriors fan.

The only reason this game affects me is because the spurs get a big ole' L in the standings.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:03 AM
I guess I was hoping you had some sort of sense of imagination.

mary
11-28-2006, 01:04 AM
Why would I get excited about that? I haven't followed them. I haven't sat through 10 seasons of missed playoffs. I'm not even close to being a Warriors fan.

The only reason this game affects me is because the spurs get a big ole' L in the standings.


Bingo.

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 01:06 AM
I'm not going to be happy for any team that plays against the Mavs. Especially teams that beat the Mavs already this season.

Actually I might be happy if the Blazers do somethin'. They're just so darn cute!

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:07 AM
I kinda imagine nowadays that chum is tucked away in a sports bar like Bob Swerkski, except Nellie is his Ditka.Hey, I always say that the pudding's where the proof is, and you know how sweet my tooth is.

Some guys just have a Midas touch. I, for one, feel priviliged to watch them work their game. Particularly when they shone their graces on our Godforsaken franchise and made it what it is.

You know, "Godfather" and all...

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 01:10 AM
So who would win, a team full of Nellies or the 85-86 Celtics?

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:13 AM
Mini-Nellie's, or regular-sized-Nellie's?

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 01:15 AM
eh, we'll go with mini-nellies to make it fair.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:18 AM
Mini-Nellies: 152, 85-86 Celtics: 6.

Just so it's fair.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 01:23 AM
Yeah, probably would be a shutout except for a crazy Dennis Johnson shot at the buzzer that impresses the NBA so much they award the Celts six points.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:25 AM
Actually, it was two baskets and two free throws by Bird. But on two trips. He missed one each time.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:26 AM
Did I mention that Nellie has five rings?

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 01:33 AM
No, but I'm not surprised that you just did.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:37 AM
I think we should all take a moment to pause and just reflect on just how good a coach Don Nelson is.

Wow. I mean, really.

And another thing: How good will that team be when Davis, Pietrus, and Diogu get healthy? They are clearly top-six in the league. If Nellie's playoff performance as a coach is any indication, the teams ahead of them best be very, very careful. Nellie is well known for winning playoff series as an underdog, as he did here in Dallas against the Jazz in 2001.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 02:03 AM
Every morning when I wake up and realize this world has Don Nelson in it, I smile knowing the world is a safer place.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 02:07 AM
Members of 29 organizations disagree with you.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 02:18 AM
Not really. When they realize the billions upon billions of revenue Nellie's run-and-gun offensive scheme generates for the NBA in general, the owners are happy to receive just a cut of that. Even with a guaranteed 2-4 losses per year, the owners are happy to at least have financial security.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 02:20 AM
That could be.

But they certainly don't want to face him in the playoffs, else they lose a few extra games.

dude1394
11-28-2006, 02:30 AM
That could be.

But they certainly don't want to face him in the playoffs, else they lose a few extra games.

Not necessarily, his track record isn't that great in the playoffs. His regular season is, but not his playoff record.

Big Shot Rob
11-28-2006, 02:40 AM
Nellie had his team clickicking on all cylinders. The game was fairly tight most of the game until the fourth, when the Warriors went on an incredible run. For several minutes, the Spurs could not buy a shot and everything the Warriors touched was golden.

It was a great win for Nellie and the Warriors (dammit!)

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 02:49 AM
For several minutes, the Spurs could not buy a shot and everything the Warriors touched was golden.

[Skip Shot]

Well they are Golden St.

[/Skip Shot]

Big Shot Rob
11-28-2006, 03:11 AM
Tonight they certainly were.

Nash13
11-28-2006, 03:23 AM
Chum, listen to yourself. Have some self-respect.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 11:28 AM
Not necessarily, his track record isn't that great in the playoffs. His regular season is, but not his playoff record.His playoff record is phenomenal. It's something like seven series won as a dog as opposed to only two lost as a favorite.

That is salty.

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 12:09 PM
His playoff record is phenomenal. It's something like seven series won as a dog as opposed to only two lost as a favorite.

That is salty.

LOL

Yeah those first round wins mean a lot.

MavKikiNYC
11-28-2006, 12:15 PM
My Guy





Lyrics and Prime Artist: Mary Wells

Nothing you could say
Can tear me away from my guy
Nothing you could do
Cause I'm stuck like glue to my guy

I'm stickin to my guy like a stamp to a letter
Like birds of a feather
We..... stick together
I will tell you from the start
I can't be torn apart from my guy.

Nothing you can do
Could make me untrue to my guy
Nothing you could buy
Could make me tell a lie to my guy...
I gave my guy my word of honor
To be faithful, and I'm gonna
You best be believing
I won't be deceiving my guy...

As a matter of opinion
I think he's tops..
My opinion is he's the cream of the crop
As a matter of taste to be exact
He's my ideal as a matter of fact..

No muscle bound man could take my hand from my guy
No handsome face could ever take the place of my guy
He may not be a movie star
But when it comes to be happy we are..
There's not a man today who could take me away
from my guy
No muscle bound man could take my hand
from my guy
No handsome face could ever take the place
of my guy

He may not be a movie star
But when it comes to be happy we are..
There's not a man today who could take me away
from my guy
There's not a man today who could take me away
from my guy

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 12:18 PM
Ungrateful son of a bitch.
Wouldnt it be daughter?

dude1394
11-28-2006, 12:23 PM
His playoff record is phenomenal. It's something like seven series won as a dog as opposed to only two lost as a favorite.

That is salty.

That's sort of the problem isn't it, he never seems to get his team close enough to being the favorite.

Especially when I keep hearing you and the 'ape saying...system,system,system....coach,coach,coach . Guess not.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:07 PM
Oh, his Mavs were pretty darn close. 'Bout as close as they were last year.

dude1394
11-28-2006, 01:11 PM
Oh, his Mavs were pretty darn close. 'Bout as close as they were last year.

Chum...now you know I love me the 02-03 mavs but that team was NEVER imo as close to the spurts as these mavs are (and obviously not since they whooped 'em last year).

I am not one of those that think the mavs would have pulled that one out without dirk getting hurt. I didn't think they could continue to triple-team duncan and win it.

The thing I loved about that team so much was the obvious heart they had but even then it took a little nickey "F'em" to bring it out.

EricaLubarsky
11-28-2006, 01:47 PM
Oh, his Mavs were pretty darn close. 'Bout as close as they were last year.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/608/chumdawgjs5.jpg

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 01:50 PM
Chum...now you know I love me the 02-03 mavs but that team was NEVER imo as close to the spurts as these mavs are (and obviously not since they whooped 'em last year).

I am not one of those that think the mavs would have pulled that one out without dirk getting hurt. I didn't think they could continue to triple-team duncan and win it.

The thing I loved about that team so much was the obvious heart they had but even then it took a little nickey "F'em" to bring it out.I'm sure you're right. But they weren't miles apart, either. The Mavs and Spurs were clearly the class of the NBA at that time, with the Kings running close behind. That doesn't quite mesh with the notion that Nellie was never close to being a favorite.

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 02:01 PM
I'm sure you're right. But they weren't miles apart, either. The Mavs and Spurs were clearly the class of the NBA at that time, with the Kings running close behind. That doesn't quite mesh with the notion that Nellie was never close to being a favorite.
the kings were at least as close to the mavs as the mavs were to the spurs then. Honestly the kings then were better than the mavs.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 02:02 PM
I'm sure you're right. But they weren't miles apart, either. The Mavs and Spurs were clearly the class of the NBA at that time, with the Kings running close behind. That doesn't quite mesh with the notion that Nellie was never close to being a favorite.

I'm not even sure the Kings were running behind when they had a healthy Webber.

dude1394
11-28-2006, 02:02 PM
I'm sure you're right. But they weren't miles apart, either. The Mavs and Spurs were clearly the class of the NBA at that time, with the Kings running close behind. That doesn't quite mesh with the notion that Nellie was never close to being a favorite.

but why not chum? I mean it can't always just be only talent can it? Since it's his system,system,system, and coaching,coaching,coaching why hasn't he been the favorite more in playoff series? I think nellie was a great coach and I've defended him as such, but when you see him go back and lose a game 140-129, then it's got to be just as much him not giving a crapola about stopping anyone and just trying to outscore 'em.

It's one of the reasons I think he and cubes got cross-wise. Nellie doesn't give a CRAP about defense anymore and cubes felt that defense could be taught and drilled. Cubes was right by the way as the 02-03 team showed. But then next year, same old offense-all-of-the-time nellie.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 03:34 PM
I think that's far too simplistic an argument. (I'm certainly used to it, though, when it comes to hearing people talk about Nellie.)

It always comes down to personnel. Always. Always, always, always, always, always. Why wasn't he the favorite more often? Because of guys like Bird and Dr J and Tim Duncan. Some things you can't get around.

For everyone who would like to stick the simple-minded cliches about Nellie (such as, "He wouldn't play Shaq if he had him"), tell me about this Biedrins kid. Let's see...rebounding and blocking shots like a maniac...can't shoot outside of five feet. Explain to me why this guy even finds the floor for a Nellie team!

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 03:36 PM
I think that's far too simplistic an argument. (I'm certainly used to it, though, when it comes to hearing people talk about Nellie.)

It always comes down to personnel. Always. Always, always, always, always, always. Why wasn't he the favorite more often? Because of guys like Bird and Dr J and Tim Duncan. Some things you can't get around.

For everyone who would like to stick the simple-minded cliches about Nellie (such as, "He wouldn't play Shaq if he had him"), tell me about this Biedrins kid. Let's see...rebounding and blocking shots like a maniac...can't shoot outside of five feet. Explain to me why this guy even finds the floor for a Nellie team!
explain to me why a guy who had personel control over all of his teams for 3 decades never had the best personel.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 03:44 PM
Lol. Are you serious?

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 03:51 PM
Lol. Are you serious?
Its a valid question chum. If you want to argue that hes never had the best personel(something i agree with) then you have to question why that has happened since he has had control of what personel he has had.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 04:00 PM
When it comes to his Mavericks tenure, three things to think about:

1) He acquired Dirk, which made all the success we have had possible.

2) He wasn't in position to get a Shaq or a Duncan. If you can suggest another player he could have acquired to counter those players with, please let me know.

3) Toward the end of his tenure here, he did NOT have full control of personnel. In fact, the owner stripped him of a key cog in his machine.

If you want to go further back, then simply have to recognize that guys like Bird and Magic and Dr J were generational players. Either you are suggesting that Nellie could have acquired them somehow (I don't believe he was the GM in Milwaukee, even at that), or you are suggesting that a shrewd personnel would have been able to build a team better than those Celtics and Lakers...

Dirkadirkastan
11-28-2006, 04:06 PM
Chum, who would make you happier if they won this year's finals, the Mavericks or the Warriors?

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 04:09 PM
When it comes to his Mavericks tenure, three things to think about:

1) He acquired Dirk, which made all the success we have had possible.

2) He wasn't in position to get a Shaq or a Duncan. If you can suggest another player he could have acquired to counter those players with, please let me know.

3) Toward the end of his tenure here, he did NOT have full control of personnel. In fact, the owner stripped him of a key cog in his machine.

If you want to go further back, then simply have to recognize that guys like Bird and Magic and Dr J were generational players. Either you are suggesting that Nellie could have acquired them somehow (I don't believe he was the GM in Milwaukee, even at that), or you are suggesting that a shrewd personnel would have been able to build a team better than those Celtics and Lakers...
When did he have personell control stripped? When Nash was let go because cuban made a financial decision that EVERY owner has the ability and right to make. Walker was CLEARLY a nelly move and he was the worst move made during the nelly era here.

As for what I meant, i meant what I said, all other things aside, he had personel control so either he didnt do a good enough job assembling talent or he didnt do a good enough job coaching up the assembled talent. You cant have it both ways.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 04:16 PM
I don't think you are being very realistic, Matt.

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 04:23 PM
Chum, who would make you happier if they won this year's finals, the Mavericks or the Warriors?

Let's make it even more interesting.


Trade Nash and Baron Davis.

Now would would make you happier if they won this year's finals, the Mavericks or the Warriors?

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 04:29 PM
Hey, the Mavericks already had their chance.

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 04:33 PM
Hey, the Mavericks already had their chance.
Are you serious? Why do you still post here then?

fluid.forty.one
11-28-2006, 04:35 PM
Hey, the Mavericks already had their chance.

Troll post of the year.

grats.

dirno2000
11-28-2006, 04:54 PM
It always comes down to personnel. Always. Always, always, always, always, always.

So why do we spend so much time arguing about coaching?

Why wasn't he the favorite more often? Because of guys like Bird and Dr J and Tim Duncan. Some things you can't get around

But he had a generational player in Steve Nash. And while I've never heard you call Dirk a generational player, I imagine you think he's pretty good. Shouldn't he have been able to accomplish more with them?

Dirkadirkastan
11-28-2006, 04:57 PM
Considering that we finally cut to the chase and determined for sure where Chumdawg's loyalties lie, I believe it is time to cease all debates with him. He's simply not a Mavericks fan anymore.

dirno2000
11-28-2006, 05:04 PM
He's a Mavs fan, he just likes stir the pot.

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 05:15 PM
But he had a generational player in Steve Nash. And while I've never heard you call Dirk a generational player, I imagine you think he's pretty good. Shouldn't he have been able to accomplish more with them?They are both generational players, and yes, he should have been able to. And it is my belief that he would have, if that potent tandem wasn't ripped apart.

Evidently it went over some of your heads, but the "had their chance" part was a sarcastic shot at those who would argue something along these lines: Nellie never won a title with the Mavs, so he sucks / can't win a title / etc.

HexNBA
11-28-2006, 05:36 PM
For everyone who would like to stick the simple-minded cliches about Nellie (such as, "He wouldn't play Shaq if he had him"), tell me about this Biedrins kid. Let's see...rebounding and blocking shots like a maniac...can't shoot outside of five feet. Explain to me why this guy even finds the floor for a Nellie team!

Because he's white, duh

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 07:22 PM
They are both generational players, and yes, he should have been able to. And it is my belief that he would have, if that potent tandem wasn't ripped apart.

Evidently it went over some of your heads, but the "had their chance" part was a sarcastic shot at those who would argue something along these lines: Nellie never won a title with the Mavs, so he sucks / can't win a title / etc.

Out of curiosity, how many other teams with two generational players and a third all-star caliber player haven't gotten the job done?

chumdawg
11-28-2006, 07:53 PM
Oh, plenty. In the 80's, in particular, it happened to at least one team every single year.

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 09:22 PM
Oh, plenty. In the 80's, in particular, it happened to at least one team every single year.
How about in the 2000s? You know when its not a 23 team league.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 10:41 PM
And what is your definition for a generational player? One of the top 2 players of his generation? Top 10? Top 20?

Five-ofan
11-28-2006, 10:52 PM
which is another question is it just a player we will only see once every X number of years? because if thats the only qualification i would say that Earl Boykins is just as unique as Nash but if you mean as far as a player ranking or something like that, then nash isnt what i would call generational since hes never been a top 5 player in the nba at ANY point in his career.

FINtastic
11-28-2006, 10:59 PM
Yeah, it's a higly subjective term, which is why chum loves to use it.

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:24 AM
It's no more subjective than MVP, All-NBA first team, and others. People *love* talking about the MVP, the best players in the game, and so on.

A generational player is more than just one of the best players in his generation. He *defines* the play at his position, for his generation. He's a player others want to be, others are compared to if they are lucky.

Sure, there is a subjective element to it. And in some cases people won't ever come to an agreement. (Iverson, for example.) But generally speaking, a guy has to do something better than just about anyone else in his generation. And people will have to remember him for it.

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:27 AM
So you would say Avery is a generational coach then?

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:33 AM
That thought would never have entered my mind, no.

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:35 AM
Well he won Coach of the Year last year, and as you seem to love pointing out Nash's MVP status, I thought we should give equal credence to Avery's Coach of the Year status.

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:39 AM
Well, you know what they say about those regular season awards...

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:41 AM
I know what you normally say about them...

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:47 AM
Let's go ahead and get Johnson a couple more COTY awards before we start putting him in the same breath as Nellie, okay?

EricaLubarsky
11-29-2006, 12:49 AM
Getting a team to the Finals on its own puts him up there with Nellie

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:49 AM
I'm just putting him in the same breath as Nash here, but I guess maybe he needs another. But hey if Nash can get two, so can the little general!

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:55 AM
I hope the General does get another one, at least. You'll probably find that it gets a little harder, though, once your team is established. For example, Nellie never won one in Dallas, even though he put up 60 wins (and probably deserved it a season or two before that, if he deserved it all in Dallas). COTY voting can be a funny thing, as I'm sure you know. It often rewards a team that makes its first rise from mediocrity, or overcomes some sort of obstacle.

Erika-- I'd like to agree with you on that point, but the only reason I can't fully is that your argument has built into it a corrolarly, which is: If Johnson *doesn't* get to the Finals, he doesn't deserve to be up there with Nellie.

This is why I am not fond of this kind of argument, at least in this context. Because I know that the series against San Antonio could well have gone either way. It was a tossup in the end.

Now, credit does go to the team that puts itself in position to win a tossup, that's true. But by the same token, blame should not go to that team when it loses the tossup. Some things you just have to chalk up to chance.

Drbio
11-29-2006, 01:07 AM
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/608/chumdawgjs5.jpg

hahahaha....how in the heck did I miss this beautiful gem and why can't I give Erica more rep more often?

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 01:28 AM
You know, it's not common on this board for folks to create images that are disparaging of fellow posters. You would think that some sense of decorum would hold sway.

And I'm sure it will, for our better-heeled members.

Dirkadirkastan
11-29-2006, 04:45 AM
Getting a team to the Finals on its own puts him up there with Nellie

Erika-- I'd like to agree with you on that point, but the only reason I can't fully is that your argument has built into it a corrolarly, which is: If Johnson *doesn't* get to the Finals, he doesn't deserve to be up there with Nellie.

Erica: If Avery gets to the Finals, then he's on the same level with Nellie. (P => Q)

Chum's corollary: If Avery doesn't get to the Finals, then he isn't on the same level with Nellie. (not P => not Q)

Is this logic sound?

Statement: If Ager played in the game, then he was wearing a jersey. (P => Q)

Analogous corollary: If Ager didn't play in the game, then he wasn't wearing a jersey. (not P => not Q)

Oops!

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 11:15 AM
B = C

If A = B, then A = C.

If A does not = B, then A does not = C.

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 11:30 AM
B = C

If A = B, then A = C.

If A does not = B, then A does not = C.

I doubt this sort of logic would fly in any Discrete Mathematics class. You wanna explain what A, B, and C are for everyone?

Flacolaco
11-29-2006, 11:37 AM
I doubt this sort of logic would fly in any Discrete Mathematics class. You wanna explain what A, B, and C are for everyone?

I think he was just demonstrating the transitive property.

it's not an induction proof or anything

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 11:47 AM
Unfortunately, I don't see how the transitive property applies here, but it's a little hard to say because the A, B, and C here don't really seem very well defined. The problem I see with chum's assertion here is that B and C are Avery and Nellie. A seems to be winning the championship. If this is true, A=B doesn't make sense. Cause in a situation where Avery doesn't win a championship, this scenario would seem to imply that Avery doesn't exist. And seeing that Avery is still stomping on the sidelines, I'd say this is wrong. But like I said, chum could have a different intention for A, B, and C so I'd love to hear it. From what I've seen after my days in Discrete class, Dirkadirkastan got it right here.

MavKikiNYC
11-29-2006, 11:56 AM
Nelson looks for 1,200th career coaching victory

JANIE McCAULEY

Associated Press

OAKLAND, Calif. - Don Nelson had no interest in discussing another milestone he's about to add to his coaching resume.

On Wednesday night, he could become only the second coach in NBA history to reach 1,200 victories when his Golden State Warriors host the Indiana Pacers. Lenny Wilkens has the career record for wins with 1,332.

"I guess you jinxed that," Nelson said Tuesday after a Warriors staff member brought up the fact he could do it by month's end. "I don't want to talk about that. Let's talk about something else."

Well, does he think he can catch Wilkens?

"I'll try not to. I don't want it," Nelson said. "I hope I retire before that ever happens. I'm a happy guy right where I am."

So are his Golden State bosses. Nelson's team is 9-6 and coming off impressive victories over Utah and San Antonio - two of the NBA's elite organizations - in a three-day span. The Warriors haven't reached the playoffs in an NBA-worst 12 years, since Nelson last took this franchise to the postseason in 1994 during his first stint as coach.

But there is hope in the East Bay again after years of disappointment and losing.

For now, Nelson is focused not on counting his victory total but getting his young squad to keep playing well. He is brutally honest when it comes to his players, and it's something they seem to appreciate so far. At least they know there's no wondering what the coach is thinking.

The 66-year-old Nelson, hired Aug. 30 in a surprise move to replace Mike Montgomery, has shown he isn't going to defend his athletes at all times. Fifth-year pro Mike Dunleavy, the third overall pick by the Warriors in the 2002 draft out of Duke who has greatly underachieved, is frequently booed by fans frustrated with his lack of contribution.

"A lot of it is his own fault," Nelson said. "He needs to step up and do more. I mean, I have the same problem the fans do. I'm not booing him, but I've thought about it a few times. He's got to get tougher. If that's what it takes (booing), that's what it takes."

And how does Nelson feel about Matt Barnes, who filled in nicely while guard Mickael Pietrus sat out the last two games with the flu? Barnes is averaging 19.3 points, 6.3 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 1.67 blocks over his last three games.

"I get mad at him because he always has to do something sensational and it doesn't ever really work out," Nelson said. "If they can make the play, it's one thing. He's like 0-for-10 on sensational."

And Nelson told 21-year-old guard Monta Ellis on Monday night that he had better start playing if the Warriors were going to beat the Spurs. Ellis scored 14 of his 19 points in the fourth quarter of a 111-102 win, with Nelson saying Tuesday that Ellis slept through the first three periods.

Whatever works, the players say of Nelson's methods. They are winning, so Nellie has to be doing something right.

"He's our legend. Legend Nelson," Pietrus said.

Nelson stressed to his team Tuesday not to get too high after these last two wins against Western Conference powers. It's still early and Golden State will have played a franchise-record 12 home games in November, the Warriors' most ever in one month.

"I worry about everything with a young team," Nelson said. "There isn't anything I don't worry about. I told them today, 'Don't get too full of ourselves. The Force was with us the last two games.'"

Nelson said point guard Baron Davis' status for Wednesday would be a game-time decision depending how his tender right ribs feel. He has missed three straight games and four of five.

Flacolaco
11-29-2006, 12:01 PM
I love how the writers are calling the Jazz an "elite" organization now

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:05 PM
I do love the shot Nellie took at Dunlady.

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:08 PM
Unfortunately, I don't see how the transitive property applies here, but it's a little hard to say because the A, B, and C here don't really seem very well defined. The problem I see with chum's assertion here is that B and C are Avery and Nellie. A seems to be winning the championship. If this is true, A=B doesn't make sense. Cause in a situation where Avery doesn't win a championship, this scenario would seem to imply that Avery doesn't exist. And seeing that Avery is still stomping on the sidelines, I'd say this is wrong. But like I said, chum could have a different intention for A, B, and C so I'd love to hear it. From what I've seen after my days in Discrete class, Dirkadirkastan got it right here.Erika said that AJ getting a team to the Finals put him up there with Nellie. I took this to mean:

B = a person having made tangible accomplishments in his coaching career (COTY awards, playoff success, and so on)

C = Nellie

A = Johnson

So once A became equal with B, it was also equal with C. That was Erika's statement.

I said that I don't like that kind of logic in this context, because there are too many outside factors besides the things being used for "B."

fluid.forty.one
11-29-2006, 12:16 PM
Yeah... like trips to the finals as a coach.

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 12:25 PM
So the scenario you painted is that (A^ B) -> C. The problem here is that in logic, if B is false, then the statement is technically true. So Erica's statement is pretty sound when it comes to logic.

P.S. Sorry to some of you innocent folks for math nerdin' on you, but I'm a math major, it's what I do.

chumdawg
11-29-2006, 12:55 PM
I tell you what. Let's get rid of the Nellie part and break this down to its essence. The statement is something like this:

AJ getting his team to the Finals made him _____________.

And fill in the blank with whatever you like. "Up there with Nellie," an elite coach, a top-level coach, whatever.

This is the part that I don't fully agree with. (For reasons like what dirkadirka talked about.) Because I know very well that the series turned on ONE single play at the end of Game Seven. So if we don't get the foul, and the win, does that--in itself--say something substantive about AJ's qualification as a coach?

I really don't think so.

V2M
11-29-2006, 01:42 PM
So the scenario you painted is that (A^ B) -> C. The problem here is that in logic, if B is false, then the statement is technically true. So Erica's statement is pretty sound when it comes to logic.

P.S. Sorry to some of you innocent folks for math nerdin' on you, but I'm a math major, it's what I do.

I'm ignorant... but not necessarily innocent

;)

FINtastic
11-29-2006, 02:20 PM
I tell you what. Let's get rid of the Nellie part and break this down to its essence. The statement is something like this:
ser
AJ getting his team to the Finals made him _____________.

And fill in the blank with whatever you like. "Up there with Nellie," an elite coach, a top-level coach, whatever.

This is the part that I don't fully agree with. (For reasons like what dirkadirka talked about.) Because I know very well that the ies turned on ONE single play at the end of Game Seven. So if we don't get the foul, and the win, does that--in itself--say something substantive about AJ's qualification as a coach?

I really don't think so.

This certainly is valid in that some do focus too much on championships when judging the success of a coach. JVG's coaching reputation changed pretty drastically one shot that barely went in. He went from possible firing to being known as one of the better coaches in the league.

But at the same time, Avery did it. He won the game, he had them there in that position in only his second year as a head coach. I think that says something at least about him as a coach. Personally, I'd rather not compare the two. Both have been very good for the franchise, and sitting on a 10 game win streak, I'm pretty happy the way things are going right now.

MavKikiNYC
11-29-2006, 02:52 PM
But at the same time, Avery did it. He won the game, he had them there in that position in only his second year as a head coach. I think that says something at least about him as a coach. Personally, I'd rather not compare the two.
You can also compare the two coaches in how they used Dirk and how they encouraged his development.

Nellie encouraged Dirk to shoot the 3.

Avery, from the beginning, encouraged him NOT to settle for the 3, but to take the ball inside.

The difference in those two approaches is the difference in winning a series against a team like SA.

Also, it may strike some as reductivist to compare coaches on the basis of championships won and lost.

But that pales as a reductivist act to saying that JVG was made or broken by the bounce of Houston's shot, or that Avery was made or broken by Dirk's drive and Manu's foul.

Avery had definitely guided them into that position, where the game could be decided by that kind of play. That is more than Nellie was ever able to manage.

"I'll try not to. I don't want it," Nelson said. "I hope I retire before that ever happens. I'm a happy guy right where I am."
Obviously the quotes are in response to a question about a different subject, but damned if they don't seem to capture a lot about Nellie. Complacent. Satisfied to lose doing it 'his' way as opposed to doing whatever it takes to win.

Flacolaco
11-29-2006, 03:08 PM
Good post KiKi, that's what I was going to say. A Nellie coached Dirk probably would not have pounded the ball inside like that to get the call.

but alas...we'll never know.

Flacolaco
12-05-2006, 10:42 PM
looks like Nellie and the boys are having another tough night today.....

dude1394
12-05-2006, 10:58 PM
D'em rockettes are playing some studly ball right now.

jleefilled
12-05-2006, 11:54 PM
D'em rockettes are playing some studly ball right now.

so are the Nuggets and the Suns.

Early season "contenders" in the West (in no particular order): Dallas, SA, Hou, LAL, Pho, Utah, and Denver.

dirno2000
12-06-2006, 12:10 AM
Houston is playing pretty well at home but they're still 4-4 on the road. you're not a contender until you can consistently win on the road.

dude1394
12-06-2006, 01:30 AM
Pooh-pooh them if you want. They are still playing some studley ball.

One more loss than us is not chopped liver.

jleefilled
12-06-2006, 02:29 AM
Houston is playing pretty well at home but they're still 4-4 on the road. you're not a contender until you can consistently win on the road.

Fair enough..Actually, I just glanced at the standings real quick to make that list. I'm a lazy, post-padding bum, I know. : )

jianhui
12-06-2006, 03:33 AM
Houston is playing pretty well at home but they're still 4-4 on the road. you're not a contender until you can consistently win on the road.

Houston need some time to gel, that's all.
Too many new players have never been to play together.

sike
12-06-2006, 10:44 AM
Warriors got it handed to 'em the last night....

mary
12-06-2006, 11:08 AM
Sooooo....I wander over to the warriors forum this morning, and there's a huge thread questioning why Nellie didn't try to use Foyle more in a game where they were being dominated in the middle.

Hehe...

sike
12-06-2006, 11:23 AM
because Nellie has forgotten he even has Foyle at the end of that bench.

Nellie: "Boy, that sure is a tall water boy"... sigh ;)

V2M
12-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Nellie is just an artist at the core... he'd rather do it his way and let the results fall where they may...

dude1394
12-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Sooooo....I wander over to the warriors forum this morning, and there's a huge thread questioning why Nellie didn't try to use Foyle more in a game where they were being dominated in the middle.

Hehe...

It's easy to figure out.
3pt% - 0.00, FT% - 25

sike
12-06-2006, 06:36 PM
It's easy to figure out.
3pt% - 0.00, FT% - 25
nice

TripleDipping
12-06-2006, 07:19 PM
Nellie is hiding Foyle from the Dirk so he can be unleashed during the playoffs.

dude1394
12-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Nellie is hiding Foyle from the Dirk so he can be unleashed during the playoffs.

Dang it. That nellie and pops, both scared to death of the dirkster.

FINtastic
12-10-2006, 01:25 AM
Well, I just thought it should be noted that Don Nelson just won his 1200th. Congrats to Nellie.

EricaLubarsky
12-10-2006, 02:11 AM
Nellie is hiding Foyle from the Dirk so he can be unleashed during the playoffs.
lol how did I miss this rep

chumdawg
12-10-2006, 03:01 AM
And the bitches will complain that he didn't play the center. 1200. What do you want, already?

EricaLubarsky
12-10-2006, 03:43 AM
A finals appearance?

untitled
12-10-2006, 10:59 AM
A finals appearance?
Erica shoots....SHE SCORES!

MavKikiNYC
12-16-2006, 11:16 PM
Nelson, an Old-School Revolutionary, Revives a Franchise and His Career

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/12/17/sports/17hoops.1.600.jpg Jim Wilson/The New York Times
Don Nelson, with his terrier mix Lucky. Nelson has won more than 1,200 N.B.A. games since starting as a coach in 1976.

By LIZ ROBBINS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/liz_robbins/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

Published: December 17, 2006

Don Nelson packed up his white Ford pickup truck in Dallas in September, threw in a box of cigars and some country CDs, and headed for old Route 66 to trace history: his own.

Larry Riley, Nelson’s friend and assistant coach, sat in the passenger seat. Lucky, the Jack Russell terrier mix Nelson rescued from a shelter near his off-season home in Maui, sat in the cab.

Talking basketball for 14 hours a day through a thick cloud of smoke, Nelson saw his plan clearer than ever. “We can do this,” he proclaimed to Lucky, Riley and the tumbleweeds as he delineated his offense and defense while passing through Amarillo, Tex., and Gallup, N.M., before finally arriving in Oakland, Calif., for his new, and yet old, job.

Nelson returned to the Golden State Warriors, whom he coached from 1989 to 1995, and to the N.B.A. after a strained 18-month absence from the Dallas Mavericks (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/probasketball/nationalbasketballassociation/dallasmavericks/index.html?inline=nyt-org) that also gave him a regenerating vacation in places like New Zealand.

“Some people question, How does a 66-year-old guy who could easily walk off into the sunset do this?” Riley said in Oakland last week. “Because it’s right in his heart. It’s what he wants to do.”

The man known as Nellie wanted to show that his journey in the N.B.A. — spanning 30 years on the sideline and 14 in uniform — was not yet complete. He returned because he missed teaching, wanted the challenge of reviving a franchise and craved competition.

“The N.B.A. is the major leagues,” Nelson said between puffs of a cigar atop the Warriors’ practice facility. “It’s the fast lane and it’s fun to be in it.”

That is a perfect summary of Nelson’s philosophy. It may not have earned him an N.B.A. title, but it has won him 1,202 games, second most on the career list.

“He’s given me something to be happy about playing basketball again,” Warriors guard Baron Davis said.
That was before Nelson, by not calling a timeout with eight seconds left, allowed Davis to race upcourt to hit the winning 3-pointer against Houston on Thursday.

“He’s so far ahead of everyone in his knowledge,” Davis said. “It’s like art, the way he structures the game. The way he coached in Dallas, he revolutionized the game.”

With revolution comes struggle, however, and Nelson’s fast and furious style — which matched his big-hearted, blustering and blunt personality — has created controversy as well as victory.

He gained attention at Golden State in the early 1990s by popularizing Run TMC, the high-scoring threesome of Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullin.

By the end of Nelson’s run with the Warriors, he publicly feuded with his star, Chris Webber (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/chris_webber/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Webber was traded, and Nelson was fired, then Nelson entered into a legal dispute with the owner, Chris Cohan, over money owed. (Long settled, Nelson called it “part of business.”)

Nelson moved to New York in 1995, but his offense and stubbornness never meshed with the Knicks (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/probasketball/nationalbasketballassociation/newyorkknicks/index.html?inline=nyt-org), especially with their franchise player, Patrick Ewing (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/e/patrick_ewing/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Nelson lost that power struggle after only 59 games.

Nelson found revival in Dallas. He jump-started the careers of Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, infusing the team with 3-point fever and 50-victory seasons. But his relationship with the team’s new owner, Mark Cuban (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/mark_cuban/index.html?inline=nyt-per), grew tense, even with Nelson’s son Donnie as the Mavericks’ president.

Don Nelson groomed his assistant Avery Johnson to be a head coach and stepped aside in March 2005. Nelson remained a consultant, but from a distance. (He has since gone to arbitration over deferred payments he says Cuban owes him.)

“I thought I’d be the Red Auerbach of that franchise, just end up being an adviser,” Nelson said of his former mentor with the Celtics (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/probasketball/nationalbasketballassociation/bostonceltics/index.html?inline=nyt-org). “Mark didn’t want that.”

Mullin, in his third year as the Warriors’ vice president for basketball operations, had a solution. He called Nelson, his own mentor, in Maui to ask him to save a moribund franchise that had been through eight coaches and made no playoff appearances since Nelson’s departure.

“I didn’t want to go into another situation that didn’t work, so I was careful,” Nelson said. “I needed to have the basketball people make the basketball decisions and somebody I could communicate with.”

Mullin has credited Nelson for saving him by sending him to alcohol rehabilitation; the two have a bond that needs no explanation.

“Nellie makes me laugh all the time,” Mullin said. “He’s doing wonderful things and we’re moving forward. We are a young team; he’s introducing and teaching an N.B.A. style. Nellie and I believe in that style.”

Nelson made it his goal to develop coaching talent. “I want to make Keith Smart a head coach like I did with Avery,” Nelson said of the assistant he inherited.

In 1988, Nelson drafted Smart but cut him, explaining that he was not good enough.

“I always use that lesson of honesty in tough situations,” said Smart, who became an interim coach in Cleveland in 2000.

Opponents are seeing vintage Nellie Ball again from the Warriors (12-12): small lineups, position-defying matchups, passes off the backboard, centers making 3-pointers, intentional fouling, gamesmanship, gimmicks.

“He’s fun for basketball, very creative,” San Antonio Coach Gregg Popovich, Nelson’s friend and former assistant, said last week in Los Angeles. “He’s going to look at his group and do what it has to to win that game that night.”

Nelson admitted that his team was “not very good yet,” adding that he was wrong about some players he had evaluated. But his eyes lit up when he talked about the 21-year-old center Andris Biedrins and the 20-year-old guard Monta Ellis, who rarely played under the previous coach, Mike Montgomery.

“I wasn’t wrong about them,” Nelson said.

Nor was he wrong about the journeyman forward Matt Barnes, whom he encouraged to shoot 3-pointers.

“This is the first coach who really believed in me,” said Barnes, who almost quit for a football career until training camp.

In Tuesday’s 126-113 victory against Sacramento, Barnes, once a 20-percent 3-point shooter, was 6 for 9 from beyond the arc and scored a career-high 32 points.

“This is what makes my job a wonderful job,” Nelson said, beaming like a parent. “He’s coming into his own.”

Nelson won his 1,200th game Dec. 9 at home, celebrating with just one cigar and one beer because he has gout. The next day, the Warriors scored 72 first-half points against Seattle but lost by 2.

“Not to be able to enjoy that for a few days is the nature of the business we’re in,” Nelson said. “It was history, see you later, probably as it should be.”

Nelson’s patience and the Warriors’ talent will be tested on their six-game trip, which stops in New Jersey tomorrow night.

Nelson has a three-year, $18 million contract and is not sure how long he will keep coaching. “I don’t have to do it a lifetime,” he said, even if he has already found perspective in doing so.

Mullin said: “Nellie, no matter what he’s engaged in, he wants to win. I can’t say he’s mellowed, but he might mask it a little better.”

Being in remission from prostate cancer — his wife, Joy, is also in remission, from breast cancer — has only intensified Nelson’s passion for life and culture, and his compassion for people and animals.

While Nelson was recovering from surgery in the winter of 2001, he visited the pound every day in Maui, bonding with Lucky. “That was the only good thing about having cancer,” Nelson said.

Lucky made himself at home in the Warriors’ offices, winning over staff members who had not known Nelson.

“He really aided in my being accepted,” Nelson said. “I guess they all liked the dog and figured the old man can’t be that bad.”

chumdawg
12-16-2006, 11:36 PM
Thanks, Kiki. Very gracious of you. I especially liked this:

“He’s so far ahead of everyone in his knowledge,” Davis said. “It’s like art, the way he structures the game. The way he coached in Dallas, he revolutionized the game.”That's the Nellie I know and love.

Though I also noticed the obvious Nash reference:

“I didn’t want to go into another situation that didn’t work, so I was careful,” Nelson said. “I needed to have the basketball people make the basketball decisions and somebody I could communicate with.”Hell, you live and learn. You do live and learn.

dude1394
12-28-2006, 01:30 PM
I haven't seen much posting in the Nellie is the greatest thread in a while. Certainly nothing approaching reality. So I thought I would review and pull up some choice bits.


Nelson is doing a nice job running that same offense that he had in Dallas (looks a hell of a lot like Phoenix's too). He's got some nice players like Ellis. The only thing I see wrong with his coaching is that his team cant play defense at all and he's playing Baron Davis like he was a 20 year old Kobe. Its ridiculous how fast Davis is going to wear down.

I see the warriors winning 45 games this year and if that gets them to the playoffs, then they will.

Don't look now, but the Warriors are 6-3 and Baron Davis might be an MVP candidate.
And 21 games later they've gone 9-12. Wrong direction budda'.

The Warriors are playing sloppy right now and still blowing out good teams. What do you think will happen when the team starts to get it? There has always been a ton of talent on that Warriors roster. Now that they have one of the best coaches in the history of the NBA, watch out.
They'll go 9-12??

[QUOTE=chumdawg]It's pretty scary when Baron Davis takes a shot to the ribs and has to leave the game, and Monta Ellis goes off for 31 points, 7 assists, and 6 rebounds, leading the Warriors to another runaway win.

That's 6-3 for Nellie's Warriors.

System, system, system.

Enjoy it, Bay area fans!
System, system, system.

Sooooo....I wander over to the warriors forum this morning, and there's a huge thread questioning why Nellie didn't try to use Foyle more in a game where they were being dominated in the middle.

Hehe...
Foyle 10mpg.

rabbitproof
12-28-2006, 01:35 PM
Clock, meet twelve.

Usually Lurkin
12-28-2006, 02:22 PM
hey Darth Ape, the dark side is not stronger. It is quicker, easier, more seductive. But it looks like it doesn't even have the fortitude to last through the All-Star break, let alone an extended playoff run. Come back to the lighter side, you hoser.

chumdawg
12-28-2006, 03:00 PM
They went through some tough patches, especially with Davis being injured. But still and all, they are playing very well at home. For such a young team, that's a great indicator of success to come.

mary
12-31-2006, 11:23 AM
Things are about to go from bad to worse for Nellie.

Warriors' Richardson breaks right hand
By GREG BEACHAM, AP Sports Writer
December 31, 2006

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- Golden State guard Jason Richardson could be out for two months after breaking his right hand during the Warriors' game against the Sacramento Kings on Saturday night.

Richardson, the Warriors' leading scorer last season with 23.2 points per game, was hurt during the second quarter, apparently when Mickael Pietrus kicked out his leg while blocking a shot and accidentally kicked Richardson. After X-rays at Arco Arena revealed the break, Richardson was placed in a cast by the Kings' medical staff.


"Somebody coming down on my hand, that's all I remember," Richardson said afterward, his cast poking from underneath the sleeve of his sweater. "It could be a blessing in disguise, so we'll see."

Coach Don Nelson estimates Richardson will be out six to eight weeks, though the actual recovery time won't be known until Golden State's team doctors examine him. Richardson has spent plenty of time with those doctors after arthroscopic surgery on his left knee in the offseason -- and the high-jumping guard hasn't been the same since.

"We haven't seen the real Jason Richardson anyway," Nelson said. "There was somebody disguised as him playing. Hopefully it's not too much of a setback for him or us. His knee should be really healthy (when he returns)."

Richardson, who had five points when he was injured in Golden State's 119-96 loss, is averaging just 13.1 points and 4.1 rebounds this season. He missed eight games earlier in December with a bone bruise in his left knee.

The sixth-year pro increased his scoring average in each of the last four seasons, but Richardson has shot poorly all season, making just 37.7 percent -- worst among the Warriors' regulars.

The Warriors have won four of six, but already were short-handed in the backcourt before Richardson's injury. Monta Ellis has missed three straight games with a bruised right shoulder, and backup Anthony Roberson has a sprained big toe.

"That's a lot of points," guard Baron Davis said. "I've just got to take on as much as I possibly can, and hopefully we can survive and be in a position for a playoff hunt when (Richardson) gets back."

chumdawg
12-31-2006, 12:59 PM
Why would you say "from bad" to worse? The Warriors have been hanging around the #8 playoff spot. In the West this year that's nothing to be ashamed of--particularly when you haven't made the playoffs in a decade or so.

mary
12-31-2006, 02:20 PM
Why would you say "from bad" to worse? The Warriors have been hanging around the #8 playoff spot. In the West this year that's nothing to be ashamed of--particularly when you haven't made the playoffs in a decade or so.

I was referring to the 7-9 record they have in December. Is that good?

And yes, I know Baron Davis was injured. And now Jason Richardson is injured. Things went from "bad" to "worse".

chumdawg
12-31-2006, 02:43 PM
Is it what you would really call "bad," given the circumstances?

Dirkadirkastan
12-31-2006, 03:14 PM
Is it what you would really call "bad," given the circumstances?

Yes.

mary
12-31-2006, 03:21 PM
Is it what you would really call "bad," given the circumstances?



I think the following things are bad.

1) Having an injured point guard.
2) Having a losing record.
3) Losing your best player for two months.

Prior to # 3 happening, the first two events happened. Therefore adding one "bad" event to the two previous "bad" events, meant things went from "bad" to "worse".

You can ask me again if you like. ;)

rakesh.s
12-31-2006, 03:44 PM
right now, the warriors just have too many players..there aren't enough shots to go around.

dunleavy, diogu, murphy, foyle, richardson (even before injury) basically have no role on the team..and that's $40 mill in payroll right there. Add in patrick o'bryant who the warriors used a lottery pick on....those 6 guys could probably make the playoffs in the east.

The only guys nellie seems to like are Biedrins, Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Pietrus and Matt Barnes.

chumdawg
12-31-2006, 04:30 PM
I think the following things are bad.

1) Having an injured point guard.
2) Having a losing record.
3) Losing your best player for two months.

Prior to # 3 happening, the first two events happened. Therefore adding one "bad" event to the two previous "bad" events, meant things went from "bad" to "worse".

You can ask me again if you like. ;)You really think J-Rich is their best player?

mary
12-31-2006, 04:38 PM
You really think J-Rich is their best player?


Well last year he was their leading scorer, and he's been their best player whenever they play the Mavs. Unless you think losing J-Rich is good for the team, I'm not sure it matters.

So here:

1) Having an injured point guard.
2) Having a losing record.
3) Losing Jason Richardson for two months.

Bad, bad, bad.

MavKikiNYC
12-31-2006, 05:30 PM
Well last year he was their leading scorer, and he's been their best player whenever they play the Mavs. Unless you think losing J-Rich is good for the team, I'm not sure it matters.

So here:

1) Having an injured point guard.
2) Having a losing record.
3) Losing Jason Richardson for two months.

Bad, bad, bad.

Mary, you're missing a bad, I think. Wasn't J-Rich coming off a knee injury? Then he gets a broken hand. In any case, they do seem to be hitting a rough patch with injuries.

OTOH, sometimes that's when Nelson does his best work--when expectations are low, the pressure is off, and when improving from a high-20-win/low-30-win team to a team hovering around .500 will look like significant progress. If they can sneak into the playoffs as the 8th seed, he looks like a genius.

kriD
01-03-2007, 06:06 AM
Azubuike gets call from NBA

By ANGEL H. VERDEJO
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

The Fort Worth Flyers' Kelenna Azubuike has proven himself as a scoring threat and the NBA has taken notice.

Azubuike, the NBA Development League's top scorer, signed a contract with the Golden State Warriors on Tuesday and then scored four points in 16 minutes in his NBA debut in Oklahoma City against the New Orleans/OKC Hornets.

He is the first D-League player called up to the NBA this season and the 69th overall in the league's six-year history.

Azubuike averaged 26.2 points per game in 12 games. He was shooting 51 percent from the floor and ranked third in the league with his 48.5 percent shooting from 3-point range. Azubuike has scored 25 or more points in eight games and 30 or more three times, including a season-high 35 points against Los Angeles on Dec. 2.

Azubuike also averaged 5.1 rebounds and 3.2 assists this season.

One of four returnees this season to Fort Worth, Azubuike, a second-year pro, joined the Flyers early last season and averaged 12.6 points in 41 regular-season games.

He was the team's second-leading scorer in both playoff games, including 17 points in the league championship against Albuquerque.

Azubuike played with the Denver's summer-league team in 2006 and was in training camp with the Houston before this season. The former Kentucky standout led the Wildcats in scoring his junior year.

Murphy3
01-03-2007, 10:23 AM
You really think J-Rich is their best player?
Nelson said that Davis is his best player on Norm's show before the season. But, I'd personally go with Richardson.

dude1394
01-03-2007, 10:27 AM
Nelson has woodies for point guards.

dirt_dobber
01-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Avery has a big ego????????????

Nellie said this in an interview while touting Keith Smart as his replacement.
Ican't get the whole article because registraion is required from the Sacramento Bee
but here is the first part of the article.
================================================== =====================

"Don Nelson has made his choice, again. He has tabbed Keith Smart, his assistant at Golden State and long considered a top bench prospect, to be his successor as the coach of the Warriors, a notable declaration even if it has little actual meaning. Nelson's history makes it an important distinction and at the least an early look into a future in Oakland that could still be 2 1/2 seasons away. The last time he designated a replacement years in advance, Avery Johnson was anointed the prodigy in Dallas and, indeed, took over in 2005 when the relationship between Nelson and owner Mark Cuban frayed to the point of disrepair."

"At Golden State, Chris Mullin is the executive vice president of basketball operations and Nelson's superior, before any decision reaches owner Chris Cohan, but Nelson and Mullin are very close and known to be like-minded on many issues. "He's just a natural," Nelson said of Smart, once the interim coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the pre-LeBron James days. "Kind of like Avery in that respect. He played for Bobby (Knight, at Indiana). He's got the whole package. And he doesn't have an ego. Avery has a big ego. Keith doesn't." Sacramento Bee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this a shot at Avery or an observation. Nellie has always given backhanded compliments.

I don't miss the Don very much at all.

mary
01-08-2007, 10:32 AM
I thought Don Nelson was a little bit more classy that that.

MavKikiNYC
01-08-2007, 10:45 AM
Maybe "ego" is code.

dalmations202
01-08-2007, 11:36 AM
I am happy that Avery has an ego........that is one of the things that pushes him to be the best. As long as the ego is properly channeled, it is a tool of great worth.

It can also be a tool of great despair though.

kriD
01-16-2007, 03:35 PM
Killion: Warriors slip late, but end their slide

By Ann Killion
Mercury News

Who's your Daddy?

That's what Don Nelson was asking Mike Dunleavy on Monday.

Nelson has been riding Dunleavy all season. He has been even harder on him than the boo-bird Oakland fans, if that's possible. He called Dunleavy ``a disaster'' in Game 1 and hasn't let up since.

Over the weekend, Nelson said that Dunleavy might flourish with a different team -- directly opening up the possibility of a trade. And probably one of the few teams that would be interested was the Warriors' Monday opponent -- the Los Angeles Clippers, who are coached by Dunleavy's father, Mike Sr.

Dunleavy's response?

He did his talking on the floor Monday afternoon. In the Warriors' 108-93 victory -- their first in four games -- Dunleavy had his best effort of the season. He scored 18 points, pulled down a season-high 13 rebounds and played with an infrequently seen ferocity.

``He must have wanted to impress his father,'' Nelson said. ``I wish he was trying to impress me for the last 40 games.''

Dunleavy certainly wanted to make an impression on his father. He has traditionally played poorly against the Clippers.

But Dunleavy has to figure out that Nelson is actually his daddy. Now and for the foreseeable future.

So, for his own sake, you have to hope he was being disingenuous when he was asked how he feels about Nelson's criticism.

``I don't pay attention too much to what's said,'' Dunleavy said. ``Either way it doesn't really matter to me. I have no idea what he says. If I don't hear it, it doesn't sting.''

Dunleavy did add that he receives plenty of one-on-one input from his coach. But he needs to be hearing everything that Nelson is saying. When Nelson says, in a crude way, that Dunleavy didn't contribute a drop. When he includes Dunleavy in his group of the ``dumbest bunch of smart players.''

The fascinating and entertaining thing about Nelson is that he doesn't mince words. He is blunt and doesn't care if he tramples on someone's tender feelings. This is a totally refreshing development after more than a decade of hearing Warriors coaches and front-office folks spin their team's shortcomings and pretend that they're just one step from respectability.

But it's got to be a shock for a guy like Dunleavy. He has struggled to make an impact in his four-plus years in the league, but none of his coaches ever flat-out called him out before.

Now it's happening. And it's got to hurt. Clearly, his father doesn't much like it. Mike Dunleavy Sr. has a solution if the Warriors don't like his son's play.

``Then they should trade him,'' Dunleavy Sr. said -- though it should be noted that Dunleavy's contract situation makes that a difficult task.

Dunleavy Sr. also doesn't like hearing the boos that Oakland fans continue to direct at his son. The boos were starting to build in the first half Monday, but were quickly staunched by Dunleavy's all-out effort.

``A player should get booed if he doesn't play hard,'' Dunleavy Sr. said. ``Anything else and you've got bad fans.''

The boos turned to cheers Monday afternoon. And in Nelson's postgame interview, the criticism turned to praise.

``I'm critical of him not stepping up,'' Nelson said. ``That doesn't make him a bad player, but it makes him a different player than the one I need on this team. If he consistently had games like he had tonight, we wouldn't be having this talk.''

All of the Warriors played with a heightened intensity against a Clippers team that moved as though it wasn't ready for an early-morning wake-up call. The Warriors -- hammered by injuries -- had only eight available players. They all knew the game was crucial -- to end a three-game skid and prevent the Clippers from moving ahead of them in the standings.

``There was a sense of urgency,'' Baron Davis said.

Davis also had praise for Dunleavy.

``I think he played with a lot of intensity,'' Davis said. ``He played smart basketball. We need him to play like that for us to be a good team.''

The Warriors play the Clippers again Wednesday, in Los Angeles. Dunleavy will have another chance to impress his daddy.

And we don't mean Mike Senior.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 02:37 AM
Nice nellie, nice. I recall him pulling the same crap about Raef out in public for everyone to see. It's one thing to bitch about his play but impress his daddy.

I'm glad that crap is over.

Locked_Up_Tonight
01-17-2007, 08:26 AM
It's refreshing to have a coach in Dallas that wants to win a championship, that openly discusses it, instead of saying: aw shucks! We couldn't even beat the Pismo Beach Panthers.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 10:16 AM
Grumbling begins and I have to wonder how far down the re-building path nelson will take them.

From foxsports
10. Item: The fun and games between coach Don Nelson and the Golden State Warriors that dominated the first two months of the season have ceased to exist.

What this really means: Nelson's unlikely return to coach the Warriors after being gone for more than a decade with stints in New York and much longer in Dallas brought energy immediately and whispers of playoff potential have graced more lips than have even been interested since he left. But predictably, that has changed.

Nelson has been discontent with the performance of too many players on the roster, Jason Richardson has struggled coming back from knee surgery and doesn't even look healthy. Mike Dunleavy consistently is inconsistent, Mickeal Pietrus believes he's the best player on the team, and Troy Murphy seemingly comes up with a new ailment on a monthly basis. But all is not lost. All the while Baron Davis has managed to stay on his best behavior and set a good example for blossoming youngsters Andres Biedrins and Monta Ellis. It's a curious mix general manager Chris Mullin has put together, and it will be even more interesting to see how he and Nellie shake it all out with the trade deadline some five weeks away. They are indeed on the cusp of breaking their NBA-high streak of non-playoff appearances — so this delicate matter of weighing now and the future is enough to make both of them insomniacs over the next month.

chumdawg
01-17-2007, 01:00 PM
Sounds to me like a big trade is in the offing!

dirno2000
01-17-2007, 01:40 PM
Sounds to me like a big trade is in the offing!

I heard All Harring, Stephen Jackson and Josh Powell for Dunleavy, Murphy and filler. Looks like Nellie just got rid of two horrible contracts.

Nice trade for the Warriors.

edit: looks like the Warriors had to give up Diogu to make it work. I like it a little less now.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 01:40 PM
Sounds to me like a big trade is in the offing!

Prescient...I tell ya'.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index

dude1394
01-17-2007, 01:41 PM
I like indiana's side better. I think they got more "quality" people and got rid of some problem children.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 01:42 PM
So nellie got rid of daddy's boy, huh.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 01:43 PM
And nelson gets to skate accountability again. :)

dirno2000
01-17-2007, 01:43 PM
I like indiana's side better. I think they got more "quality" people and got rid of some problem children.

What good are quality people if they can't play basketball?

aexchange
01-17-2007, 01:45 PM
Harrington, Jackson at heart of Pacers-Warriors deal
ESPN.com

The Golden State Warriors have agreed to trade Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McLeod to the Indiana Pacers for Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Sarunas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell, NBA front-office sources tell ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

The trade is scheduled to be announced later Wednesday.

aexchange
01-17-2007, 01:46 PM
wow, indy unloads a couple of boneheaded idiots and gets back a super nice prospect in diogu.

i guess GS is trying to unload bad contracts with this deal.

dude1394
01-17-2007, 01:46 PM
What good are quality people if they can't play basketball?

You don't like any of those guys...Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McLeod.

Murphy will be a nice pickup next to O'Neal, Dunleavey/Ike I"m not sure about. But harrington/jackson are problems.

bobatundi
01-17-2007, 01:48 PM
wasn't harrington their big offseason acquisition?

dirno2000
01-17-2007, 01:53 PM
You don't like any of those guys...Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McLeod.

Murphy will be a nice pickup next to O'Neal, Dunleavey/Ike I"m not sure about. But harrington/jackson are problems.

I'm exaggerating a little. Murphy's a nice player and I'm really surprised that Nellie wasn't able to use him. I know he had high hopes for the kid. I really like Diogu and his athleticism.

I don’t think much of Dunleavy…especially with his contract. The only positive is that he's still young enough to turn it around.

Jackson and Harrington are potential head cases but I think Nellie can use them. Especially with Richardson out.

TripleDipping
01-17-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm surprised by the deal. I thought that both Murphy and Dunleavy would thrive under Nellie's system. Nice deal for Indiana, don't know about Golden State though.

Male30Dan
01-17-2007, 02:01 PM
PG - Baron Davis
SG - Jason Richardson
SF - Stephen Jackson
PF - Al Harrington
C - Andris Biedrins

Interesting team. They are quick and athletic and will run. They need to get healthy but they can be a pretty exciting team with Jason back there. I think both teams got what they wanted.

Male30Dan
01-17-2007, 02:02 PM
I am pretty glad that several of these Warriors left. Damn they used to give us fits when we played them. :)

fluid.forty.one
01-17-2007, 02:24 PM
I'm surprised Nelson did a trade with Indiana without getting Quis.

Stranger
01-17-2007, 02:48 PM
I like this trade better for the Warriors, but a lot depends on how Diogu turns out.

DevinHarriswillstart
01-17-2007, 02:51 PM
Quis plays defense sometimes so Nelson won't have it.

Necessary trade for both clubs, I see the upside for both. Jermaine gets tons of front court help but boy is their back court depleted now. Its clear that the Pacers are sticking to defense and have given up on that run and gun idea. Harrington and Jackson are not good defenders, esp Harrington. Diogu is the puzzle in all of this. If he pans out, Indiana got the best of it. Dunleavy might do a lot better under a controlled system as well. Sarunas was a huge injurance policy for Davis. He will definitely do better in an open system like he was in on Tel-Aviv. Golden State will score more but still won't play any defense. I kinda like it for both clubs. Both teams aren't good so, I don't think it will hurt by any means. In the east you can trade your entire team and still make the playoffs. Nellie now has lots of players that play multiple positions (might as well just waive any defensive bigs they have)......

purplefrog
01-17-2007, 03:32 PM
I am not sure who benefits the most, but I think there will be some players who are alot happier. Harrington, Jackson, and Jasikevicius will all be happier under Nellie. I have always been a bit intrigued by Sarunas because I think he is a smart player that has an above average outside shot. Unfortunately, he is also a bit slow and a defensive liability (not a problem under the Nellie system). I agree that he might be effective as a back-up to Baron Davis. Not sure how Murphy and Dunleavy fit under Carlisle's system where defense is expected. I still keep expecting Nellie to let Patrick O'Bryant go and replace with him Pittsnoggle ;)

Darth Ape
01-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Don's first big move. If I know Nelson, it won't be his last. Sometimes it doesn't make much since to look at these trades from a talent perspective. The key is to get rid of the guys who don't fit in and to get flexibility in the long run in order to build the franchise he wants.

That being said, the Warriors got back some pretty nice players. Harrington and Jackson will complement the Warrior's stars nicely. Next year Richardson comes back strong, Biedrins blossoms into one of the best of the next generation of big men.. Even Azubuike look like a player. You gotta like the Warriors future.

Thespiralgoeson
01-17-2007, 05:34 PM
Looks like a pretty sweet deal for the Warriors. For the Pacers though, I just don't get it. Really, Harrington and Jackson for Dunleavy and Murphy? Wtf?

jthig32
01-17-2007, 05:44 PM
Looks like a pretty sweet deal for the Warriors. For the Pacers though, I just don't get it. Really, Harrington and Jackson for Dunleavy and Murphy? Wtf?

Don't underestimate Diogu.

aexchange
01-17-2007, 06:00 PM
PG - Baron Davis
SG - Jason Richardson
SF - Stephen Jackson
PF - Al Harrington
C - Andris Biedrins

Interesting team. They are quick and athletic and will run. They need to get healthy but they can be a pretty exciting team with Jason back there. I think both teams got what they wanted.

they've also now got 3 of the top 10 most bone headed players in the league.
b-diddy, sjax, and harrington. for a coach that prides himself on having players with a high b-ball iq, he's going to have a difficult time trying to coach those idiots.

aexchange
01-17-2007, 06:01 PM
Don't underestimate Diogu.

diogu made the deal go through. you can bet the house that this deal doesn't get done without our native garland son in the mix.