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reeds
04-06-2002, 03:44 PM
Ok- this theory of mine might not be agreed upon, or popular with you people but it is what I really beleive. I ran it by "the kid", and he wasnt agreeing with it, but I still do.

I think the man is on STEROIDS- big time.

There was a great article on GriffeyJr. last week I wish I would have saved. Anyway, this reporter had heard Griffey was lifting weights this off season, and wanted to interview him anyway. He was expecting to see Griffey much bigger, but he wasnt. That is what started the steroid story. Griffey said that baseball never has tested for steroid, but he is certain there are many many players taking them. Players one year are 175lbs, and they come back to spring training the next year at 205, hitting the ball out of the ball park. And the ball is flying out of the park too- at a crazy rate. Sure the pitching is diluted, and the parks are more hitter friendly, but thats not the total reason. Steroids are!

Getting back to Bonds. You look at the Bonds from his Pirate days. He was at least 30lbs lighter than he is now. Not nearly as strong. Bonds has always been great, but he was hitting 30-40 homers a year. Now over 70, and who knows what he will have this year? Players will get stronger as they get older, BUT, that usually isnt true when you get to Bonds age. When you get over 35, your muscles do not keep growing and growing- actually, the opposite is true. Your muscles start to get smaller(atrophy). NOT BONDS- he is bigger now than he has ever been- and stronger too.

The man is Great- awsome in fact. BUT-I think he is getting some help. Unnatural help. No proof- just my gut feeling...

Drbio
04-06-2002, 03:48 PM
You raise a valid point. Physiologically though, there are many legal products that can be taken to put on mass. It is highly unlikely that anyone could put on the type of muscle mass that you gave in your example, but at the same time, you didn't cite an actual case where a player had done so. I don't think Bonds is abusing steroids. I think he works very hard at what he does and like many prolific sluggers before him, he is peaking later in his career.

djb
04-06-2002, 03:53 PM
I think steroids and professional sports go hand in hand more often than most would suspect. But steroids aren't miracle-makers. They don't magically make the muscles appear (steroids increase strength and protein synthesis, no direct muscle growth). If Bonds is on gear, he's still had to work hard, if not harder, than the other guys in the gym to get where he's at today. I'm sure some of his record-breaking total can be attributed to the added strength he might have gained from steroid use, but overall there's no denying his skill and accuracy. Otherwise anyone shooting gear would be putting up similar numbers.

Bayliss
04-06-2002, 04:05 PM
I don't think it's steroids... I imagine he's using the same stuff that McGwire was using a few years ago (can't remember the name). That stuff is tecnically legally, but basically works like a steroid.

Personally I can't stand Bonds. There are a lot of current baseball players I can't stand in the league right now. Yeah they have **some** talent. But 50+ homer talent? Not by a mile. When **Brady Anderson** hits 50+ homeruns you know something in baseball is wrong.

Mantle, Killebrew, Ruth, Mays, Snider, Banks, would all average 50, 60 homeruns a year in this era.

djb
04-06-2002, 04:09 PM
Heheh couldn't help but laugh at your comment about McGwire! There's no way he was _just_ on andro back then i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

reeds
04-06-2002, 04:11 PM
I agree DJ. Roids are not magic. But it is proven if you take them, along with a workout routine and proper diet- you will be bigger and strong than if you were not on them. Yes- you still have to put in the work at the gym. And there is NO doubt, the man is awsome at what he does...

reeds
04-06-2002, 04:13 PM
Androsteindione. Not sure if i spelled that correct or not. Andro for short. NO- my opinion is that is like putting a teaspoon of sugar in your coffee...lol.. Im being sarcastic, but, that is not the magic fuel that roids are...

djb
04-06-2002, 04:20 PM
Yea andro's pretty much worthless. One would get more gains from just using creatine, and that's not saying much.

The Crippler
04-06-2002, 04:36 PM
steriods can't make you hit a ball thrown in the 90s or a nasty splitfinger. we might be looking at the greatest baseball player of all time here folks. He can do it all, he has for a long time, and he might not quit doing it for a while. Give him the credit.

reeds
04-06-2002, 04:39 PM
Im not saying it can make you hit homeruns. Im saying that if you can already hit them, Like BONDS can, you can now hit more of them...

Epitome22
04-07-2002, 10:38 PM
I think that modern evolitions in athletic training in pertaining to the sport are the most cause of it. I mean, even ignoring Bonds, how do you explain Sammy Sosa being able to crank out 60+ home runs a year every year now when all he does is is use creatine. What about Brady Anderson hitting 51 one year and he didn't weight anymore than 190-200? Bonds and Sosa, like Mcgwire have turned themselves into home run hitting machines. That's all.

Drbio
04-07-2002, 10:56 PM
Mantle, Killebrew, Ruth, Mays, Snider, Banks, would all average 50, 60 homeruns a year in this era.

Naw Bayliss. That argument is like comparing apples to oranges. The pitching wasn't as technical then as now, the hitters are all bigger now, etc. Someone can just as easily say that those guys wouldn't even make the 25 man roster on teams today. It's fun to think about, but todays athletes are head and shoulders above the past in terms of conditioning, technology, etc.

TheKid
04-09-2002, 04:30 PM
As I told Reeds, pitching has a lot to do with it too. Pitching is TERRIBLE now and at one point it was pretty good. How many pitchers now throw inside to brush batters off the plate? Some do, but when you have the batters wearing suits of armor, there's no fear of crowding the plate, making the pitcher throw more outside where a batter (especially like Bonds) can extend his arms and drive the ball.

Also, with pitching being so bad, pitchers get behind in the count more than I can remember when I was younger. When you have a batter like Bonds, Sosa or McGwire and they have a 2-0 count or a 3-1 count, pitchers aren't as good as they use to be. You KNOW they are throwing a fast ball or a breaking pitch somewhere around the plate. Just my HUMBLE opinion.

reeds
04-09-2002, 09:47 PM
Epitome- Bringing up Sosa actually validates my point. That dude has put on 35lbs of muscle in the past 5 years also... And how can you say all he(they) use is creatine? Baseball DOES NOT test for steroids- I repeat- they DONT test for roids. Who knows all the players who are on it? the number could be mind-boggling...... JMHO

Murphy3
04-10-2002, 11:24 AM
what about babe ruth hitting in yankee stadium..when right field was well under 300 feet for most of his career.

just a thought..for every excuse someone can come up with to discount barry bonds or sluggers of today, you can come up with one to discount sluggers from the past

Murphy3
04-10-2002, 11:47 AM
right field wasn't over 300 feet in yankee stadium until 1976

Drbio
04-10-2002, 09:22 PM
If Raffy Palmeiro could have played at Yankee stadium in the pre-1976 years, he would be known as one of the all time great sluggers. 300 feet is nothing to him.

Epitome22
04-11-2002, 11:33 AM
Reeds, putting on 30 pounds isn't near as diffucult as you think. Especailly for professional athletes with access to all kinds of training technology. Besides, taking steroids doesen't magically grow muscles for you, you only put on muscle by training. The bottom line is, alot of players, thru the use of increased and more developed training, have turned themselves into Home Run Hitting machines. That's it.


Personally, I think it's about time they started lengthening the outfield more unlike the trend of shortening the last few seasons. Every game has had to change things or implement new rules for the sake of the game and now is Baseball's turn. Heck, I remember what a big deal it was the year Cecil Fielder hit 51. Nowadays shortstops are hitting out that many. They need to increase the distance to hit a homerun, especially down the lines. The distance down the line in right in the Ball Park in Arlington is only a few feet longer than my highschool field. And that's with 17-18 year old kids, not 6'4 230 pound men. I always rooted for teams like the Cardinals of the 80's and expos of the early 90's. Teams with speed that manufactured runs. So it's no surpise that baseball doesen't interest me anymore in this dinger crazy era where middle infielders are driving in 140 runs and the stolen base becomes more and more obsolete. They should stop calling it Baseball and re name it BatBall.

reeds
04-13-2002, 12:31 AM
I keep hearing this-"steroids dont magically grow muscle on you" That statement is not correct. Of course they dont grow muscle if you DONT work out- but obviously anyone taking the drug DOES work out. You take the same person, on the same workout routine, same reps, same body parts worked per day blah blah blah, and the steroid user will get more results- period. Its not even a debate. Im not saying steroids grow muscles without proper workouts, diet, rest, etc...im just saying, if you take roids, along with the rest of the package- you will get BIGGER,STRONGER,FASTER, than the non-user....