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View Full Version : Jazz for real?


some-dude
11-11-2006, 02:49 PM
They are now 5-1and likely be 6-1 after todays game vs the Bucks.

They have a 20-12 Power Forward in Carlos Boozer.
They have a 18-8 Center in Mehmet Okur.
They have a 15-8 young PG in Deron Williams.
Solid bench with Fisher, Harpring, Brewer, and Collins. Not to mention one of better coaches in the NBA.

However, their top player, AK47, is struggling yet they are still winning games....


So is this Jazz team just off to a hot start, or are they for real.....im starting to think the latter.

nashtymavsfan13
11-11-2006, 03:06 PM
I think they are just off to a hot start, and will start to slow down by the All Star break. They'll have on ok second half and make the playoffs. Then I think they will lose in the first round of the playoffs, the furthest they'll get is the second round.

TheBlueVan
11-11-2006, 03:10 PM
i agree that this is just a hot start BUT i think the jazz will get consistently better and better over the next couple of seasons. they have a great young core, i think theyre missing some beef and grit though

jleefilled
11-11-2006, 04:37 PM
Wow, some-dude, you and I are on the same wavelength. I was thinking about starting a thread just like this earlier this morning. I think the greatest reason for optimism if you're a Jazz fan is that the kid Deron Williams seems to be figuring the NBA game out. Last night, he had something like 26 very efficient points to go along with 14 assists!

purplefrog
11-11-2006, 04:53 PM
When the Jazz put their front line together(Boozer, AK47, Okur) , alot of people thought they were going to be great. It seems like last year Boozer just didn't play up to the monster year he had the year before. So if Boozer returns to form in a consistent way, then look out they will be tough. I am just not sure he really is the kind of player his numbers seem to suggest right now.

AxdemxO
11-11-2006, 05:34 PM
I think they are for reall...why not....if they make the playoffs and want it bad they can be dangerous...another team in the east thts off to a hot start is Atlanta and during the offseason i said they would make the playoffs....but not much else this year

jleefilled
11-11-2006, 05:41 PM
When the Jazz put their front line together(Boozer, AK47, Okur) , alot of people thought they were going to be great. It seems like last year Boozer just didn't play up to the monster year he had the year before. So if Boozer returns to form in a consistent way, then look out they will be tough. I am just not sure he really is the kind of player his numbers seem to suggest right now.

that is the other guy that I think is very crucial for the Jazz to make a serious move this year. Good point..

MavsFanatik33
11-11-2006, 06:07 PM
Many analysts had the Jazz as good as a 4 seed, I thought they were idiots at first. If you look at the team, they look good in a lot of areas and AK-47 isn't playing well at all. This team could be for real, but only time will tell...

rakesh.s
11-11-2006, 07:43 PM
Before Boozer's injury (the year they signed him and Okur), they were off to a 7-0 or 8-0 start and were looking scary.

Now they have deron williams and derek fisher in the mix, and they are definitely going to make some noise in the west -- anyone who thought otherwise should have their head checked.

some-dude
11-12-2006, 02:11 AM
Jazz won again today to go to 6-1...AK got hurt again but it seems to be only a sprained ankle..

Nonetheless Boozer and Deron were huge again.

Boozer: 32-10
Deron: 27p-15a, 5 steals

Deron is starting to show himself as an elite PG in this league....id only have him behind Paul and Nash in the West.

DubOverdose
11-12-2006, 02:14 AM
They have had a hot start in the past... I think they SHOULD be very good, but so far they haven't put it together for a significant stretch.

some-dude
11-12-2006, 02:19 AM
They have had a hot start in the past... I think they SHOULD be very good, but so far they haven't put it together for a significant stretch.

The thing is, in the past they didnt have Deron Williams or a healthy Boozer. Back then AK carried them by himself and they were a good team. When he went down, they began to struggle.....

I think this years Jazz is for real. It wouldnt surprise me if they ended with between 50-55 wins.

rakesh.s
11-12-2006, 02:56 AM
BTW, Kirilenko's ankle sprain is SEVERE..he's a very fragile, wiry guy..This could keep him out a while.

some-dude
11-12-2006, 03:01 AM
BTW, Kirilenko's ankle sprain is SEVERE..he's a very fragile, wiry guy..This could keep him out a while.

According to reports after the game he sprained it pretty bad, but during the game the Jazz radio announceer said they were keepin him out because it was a blow-out and if needed, he woulda been in there...I guess he was stretching the truth.

Nonetheless the Jazz have only one game next 5 days so he'll prolly sit out that one, but hopefully return soon after...

nashtymavsfan13
11-12-2006, 03:17 AM
Hopefully it's not for long, but I expect them to be real cautious with it. They are off to a great start, so no reason to bring him back too soon.

Thespiralgoeson
11-12-2006, 04:51 AM
Are the Jazz for real?

No.

4cwebb
11-12-2006, 05:08 AM
it remains to be seen whether the Jazz can stay healthy throughout an entire season...Boozer hasn't been healthy since he moved to the Jazz, and AK-47 has not (to my recollection) ever made it through an entire season. If those two can stay relatively healthy, I think they can make the playoffs pretty easily this year.

some-dude
11-12-2006, 01:57 PM
it remains to be seen whether the Jazz can stay healthy throughout an entire season...Boozer hasn't been healthy since he moved to the Jazz, and AK-47 has not (to my recollection) ever made it through an entire season. If those two can stay relatively healthy, I think they can make the playoffs pretty easily this year.

2001: 82 Games
2002: 80 Games
2003: 78 Games
2004: 41 Games
2005: 69 Games
---------------

So he's played in 350/410 games. Not the best, but he has never required a major surgery. He had a freak broken wrist, and then Sprained Ankles falling on the opposing team's 3rd string point guard (Pargo, Udrih). He'll be ok...

jleefilled
11-12-2006, 04:35 PM
well, losing Kirilenko will obviously not help their cause at all.

some-dude
11-19-2006, 12:29 AM
well, losing Kirilenko will obviously not help their cause at all.

They are now 3-0 without Kirilenko improving their record to 9-1.

Deron Williams looks like he has caught up, if not passed up, Chris Paul for best young PG in the league......the kid is absolutely relentless, leading the Jazz from down 16 in the 4th....he simply refuses to lose. And Boozer had yetanother doulble-dub with 22-16...

When does it stop becoming "still early" to call them a contender?

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:17 AM
When does it stop becoming "still early" to call them a contender?A week or two ago.

Get used to it. The Jazz look like a top-four team.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 02:23 AM
It's not silly to call them a contender, but I don't know about them winning it all. They could go to the second round of the playoffs at the very least.

And Chum, who would your top 4 be then in order?

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:26 AM
It's not silly to call them a contender, but I don't know about them winning it all. They could go to the second round of the playoffs at the very least.

And Chum, who would your top 4 be then in order?Probably SAS, UTA, DAL, LAC.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 02:47 AM
Probably SAS, UTA, DAL, LAC.

No Rockets? Jazz over Mavs?

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:53 AM
I was considering seeding, with an eye toward the Spurs winning the division and the Mavs edging the Rockets.

But yes, the Jazz are very much for real. It's past time to consider them a novelty act.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 02:55 AM
I was considering seeding, with an eye toward the Spurs winning the division and the Mavs edging the Rockets.

But yes, the Jazz are very much for real. It's past time to consider them a novelty act.

I didn't say they weren't for real, but saying they are better than the Mavs? Do you mean just for now, or at the end of the season as well?

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:57 AM
I think they'll have a better record. For what that's worth.

jleefilled
11-19-2006, 03:08 AM
Not quite sure about the contender bit, I still think it might be a little early for that. But as far as playoffs go, I think they are a lock as long as they remain healthy.

But wow, Deron Williams has been amazing. He's already had four games of at least 14 assists.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 03:09 AM
They are a lock for the playoffs, no doubt. But I wouldn't call them a top contender, a 60 win team, or having a better record than the Mavs yet.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 03:14 AM
How much do you need to see? We are getting close to 15% of way through the season.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 03:17 AM
How much do you need to see? We are getting close to 15% of way through the season.

If they play this well all the way to the All-Star break while somehow staying healthy, I'll be convinced. I will not, at all this season, be convinced they are better than the Mavs unless they revery to the play that started them off 0-4.

jleefilled
11-19-2006, 03:22 AM
To be considered a contender? Honestly, I think I'll have to see them perform in the playoffs unless they really do win sixty-plus during the season.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 03:22 AM
You wouldn't be good at exit polling.

jleefilled
11-19-2006, 03:37 AM
The school of hardknocks and disrespect taught me Chum. I think this is the first year the Mavs have ever been considered a legit contender.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 03:43 AM
To be considered a contender? Honestly, I think I'll have to see them perform in the playoffs unless they really do win sixty-plus during the season.

Exactly the way I feel. They are playing very very well right now, but my opinion is that they won't be able to keep it up all season. They are a lock for the playoffs though.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 03:49 AM
The school of hardknocks and disrespect taught me Chum. I think this is the first year the Mavs have ever been considered a legit contender.You'd think so, but I don't see it yet. If anything, I think the Mavs are presently seen as PREtenders.

But of course, these things evolve over time. If they are within a couple games of the conference lead at the halfway point, people will recognize.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 03:55 AM
Chummy, you are being way too pessimistic lately. The Mavs have won 5 straight, and are looking MUCH better than they did in their first 4. They are improving steadily in any game. You need to have some more faith man :)

jleefilled
11-19-2006, 04:11 AM
You'd think so, but I don't see it yet. If anything, I think the Mavs are presently seen as PREtenders.

But of course, these things evolve over time. If they are within a couple games of the conference lead at the halfway point, people will recognize.

Do they really evolve or is it w/o a championship, forever the pretender? I think the latter may very well be the case.

As far as the Jazz go, I have to lighten up my stance. If that team made the playoffs, I wouldn't want the Mavs to face them, and as such, they must be somewhat the contender.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 04:19 AM
When something like last year happens, you are--unfortunately--going to wear the "pretender" mantle until you prove otherwise. Champions don't get undressed four games in a row. Sad but true, and I'm pretty certain Avery Johnson wouldn't argue otherwise.

Nashty, I'll be pessimistic on the Mavs all the way up until they demonstrate that they can get over the hump that still blocks them. As of late, they have been beating up on some weak opposition.

As for the Jazz, Sloan is a very, very good coach--maybe the best in the league--and so that team must be given credit. Their start is not a fluke. Especially with AK47 being out. It is not beyond the imagination that they could be the best team in the conference if they were fully healthy.

Longtime Mavs watchers know how pesky the Jazz can be.

fluid.forty.one
11-19-2006, 05:18 AM
Chum, you do know that there is a "have fun" element to being a fan right? All you do is look for the bad in things.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 06:19 AM
Chum, you do know that there is a "have fun" element to being a fan right? All you do is look for the bad in things.Oh, goodness, do I ever. In fact, I talked today with a guy who is sort of a mentor of mine, and who predates me in terms of Mavericks fandom. We were talking about Nellie at Golden State. He said that he would be happy to trade a chance at an NBA title for regular seasons year in and year out that were fun to watch and follow.

And of course, I fully agreed. You are quite right, FFO. There is a "have fun" element to being a fan, which cannot be substituted for. I think you have cut right to the heart of the matter.

u2sarajevo
11-19-2006, 08:20 AM
A bit off topic here.... but chum... have you forgiven Jerry Jones for firing the great Tom Landry? That might be different though since he got us 3 Super Bowls.

Is that what it would take to turn you back around? Championships?

Thespiralgoeson
11-19-2006, 09:07 AM
Sorry chum, I just can't share your view on the Jazz. Just so we're all clear, what does everyone mean by "for real?" If by "for real" we mean playoffs, then yes, the Jazz are without question a playoff team and will almost certainly win that pathetic division of theirs. However, if "for real" means championship contenders, then no, I don't buy it.

If I had to place them somewhere in terms of who the best teams are, I'd say they fall somewhere below the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets, and above the Clippers.

AxdemxO
11-19-2006, 11:39 AM
Sorry chum, I just can't share your view on the Jazz. Just so we're all clear, what does everyone mean by "for real?" If by "for real" we mean playoffs, then yes, the Jazz are without question a playoff team and will almost certainly win that pathetic division of theirs. However, if "for real" means championship contenders, then no, I don't buy it.

If I had to place them somewhere in terms of who the best teams are, I'd say they fall somewhere below the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets, and above the Clippers.

Which means that they could beat aby of those teams..with a little luck.

IMO Miami was not a better team than us last year....but they beat us....and they beat Detroit

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 02:20 PM
A bit off topic here.... but chum... have you forgiven Jerry Jones for firing the great Tom Landry? That might be different though since he got us 3 Super Bowls.

Is that what it would take to turn you back around? Championships?Good question, especially since I have recently wondered that very thing. I never blamed Jones one bit for going in a different direction at head coach. Perhaps it was because I was too young to apprciate Landry's great work. But more likely it was because the Cowboys were more or less at rock bottom when Jones took the reins.

I wonder if the comparison was legit, but I honestly think it's not, because while the Cowboys were bad and getting worse when Jones took over, the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.

fluid.forty.one
11-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Good question, especially since I have recently wondered that very thing. I never blamed Jones one bit for going in a different direction at head coach. Perhaps it was because I was too young to apprciate Landry's great work. But more likely it was because the Cowboys were more or less at rock bottom when Jones took the reins.

I wonder if the comparison was legit, but I honestly think it's not, because while the Cowboys were bad and getting worse when Jones took over, the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.

I believe they're still on that "rise" regardless of his meddling. Who knows if we would have gotten to the finals without damp, heaven knows we never got there with nash (nash still hasn't gotten there).

Dirkadirkastan
11-19-2006, 04:33 PM
So the Mavs are pretenders because they didn't win the playoffs, but the Jazz are contenders because they didn't MAKE the playoffs? What?

AxdemxO
11-19-2006, 04:52 PM
So the Mavs are pretenders because they didn't win the playoffs, but the Jazz are contenders because they didn't MAKE the playoffs? What?

Who said the mavs are pretenders??

Jazz are for reall though....the excuses that people are trying to come up with to say that the Jazz are not for reall are the same excuses that they have been trying to come up with for the Mavs the last 2 years.

nashtymavsfan13
11-19-2006, 04:57 PM
Who said the mavs are pretenders??

Chum did.

some-dude
11-19-2006, 06:06 PM
Lemme just say this...

They got a great pg, a great coach, the mvp so far (carlos boozer) and if i remember last time they had a combination like that they went to the finals...

Except now they have players like Memo Okur and Kirilenko to go around them instead of Ostertag and Bryon Russell.

chumdawg
11-19-2006, 07:47 PM
Utah is a good, good basketball team. The Mavs are good, too. They will be better as they go along if Cuban will keep his fat nose out of the huddle.

Thespiralgoeson
11-19-2006, 07:50 PM
Which means that they could beat aby of those teams..with a little luck.

IMO Miami was not a better team than us last year....but they beat us....and they beat Detroit

It had nothing to do with luck. Two words. Steve Javie.

Besides, IMO, Miami was LIGHT YEARS better than Detroit last year. It just took Miami the first half the season to realize that.

spreedom
11-20-2006, 12:31 AM
the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.


I can't imagine what you're talking about... Steve Nash teams win regular season games.. not meaningful playoff games. I'd go to war with a guy like Erick Dampier with the championship on the line before I'd want Nash back at the point.

And I don't get how Cuban stopped our "mercurial rise" if the "meddling" he did got us to the NBA Finals... dumping old man Nash was the right move, like it or not.

nashtymavsfan13
11-20-2006, 12:56 AM
I can't imagine what you're talking about... Steve Nash teams win regular season games.. not meaningful playoff games. I'd go to war with a guy like Erick Dampier with the championship on the line before I'd want Nash back at the point.

And I don't get how Cuban stopped our "mercurial rise" if the "meddling" he did got us to the NBA Finals... dumping old man Nash was the right move, like it or not.


:confused:

Sorry, I don't fully agree with Chum on this, but I disagree with both these statements.

spreedom
11-20-2006, 10:15 PM
:confused:

Sorry, I don't fully agree with Chum on this, but I disagree with both these statements.


I'm sorry that we disagree then.. but in a league where offensive stars are a dime a dozen (at least in my opinion), and given that we already have a clear-cut #1 option that can create his shot in any situation that can be presented, I'd rather have a defensive stud patrolling the paint that is going to block at least a shot per game and grab a bucketload of rebounds for us..

That's just my personal philosophy, however.

nashtymavsfan13
11-20-2006, 10:42 PM
I'm sorry that we disagree then.. but in a league where offensive stars are a dime a dozen (at least in my opinion), and given that we already have a clear-cut #1 option that can create his shot in any situation that can be presented, I'd rather have a defensive stud patrolling the paint that is going to block at least a shot per game and grab a bucketload of rebounds for us..

That's just my personal philosophy, however.

I'd rather have another MVP caliber player that can always get the offense going and set the pace of the game when we already have a defensive minded center that can block at least a shot a game.

birdsanctuary
11-21-2006, 10:52 AM
10 and 1
5 Road Games total (3 Road Games vs. the East 1 Game vs NJ was a loss)

December looks like a bear with 5 road games in a row then Clips and SA

I think their true colors will show after December. I think the Jazz are just off to hot start.

Scoobay
11-21-2006, 11:01 AM
Lemme just say this...

They got a great pg, a great coach, the mvp so far (carlos boozer) and if i remember last time they had a combination like that they went to the finals...

Except now they have players like Memo Okur and Kirilenko to go around them instead of Ostertag and Bryon Russell.

Great coach - check
Great pg - i think he's definitely just going to get better. Big UIllinois Fan here and he was lots of fun to watch - just got better every year. Aside from his pg skills, he also plays very good D and has a big body. Just a smart smart player.
MVP so far - uh, Boozer is having a great year and the Jazz are doing great but dunno about MVP. but since his team is doing well and he's got the best stats on their team but i doubt it.

Anyone been tracking Millsap? in limited time he's put up some AK-esque numbers with boards, blocks, steals, assists... haven't seen him play yet.

MavsX
11-21-2006, 12:48 PM
this thread makes my head uneasy

AxdemxO
11-21-2006, 01:42 PM
Great coach - check
Great pg - i think he's definitely just going to get better. Big UIllinois Fan here and he was lots of fun to watch - just got better every year. Aside from his pg skills, he also plays very good D and has a big body. Just a smart smart player.
MVP so far - uh, Boozer is having a great year and the Jazz are doing great but dunno about MVP. but since his team is doing well and he's got the best stats on their team but i doubt it.

Anyone been tracking Millsap? in limited time he's put up some AK-esque numbers with boards, blocks, steals, assists... haven't seen him play yet.

Yee i noticed that Millsap in every game seemd to have like 15 or 20 points in like 10 min (overexaggeration) but u know what i mean

and DONT FORGET AK47 is still their most talented player on there....

some-dude
11-23-2006, 12:36 AM
11-1.

They just came back from down 21 points late in the third @ Sacramento to win the game by 9..:eek: ...Williams and Boozer look like one of the leagues best 1-2 punch!

EricaLubarsky
11-23-2006, 01:01 AM
good lord nearly 40 points in the 4th quarter and outscored the Kings by 22?

Deron with 20-7-13
Boozer with 32-13-5 and 2 blocks

EricaLubarsky
11-23-2006, 01:05 AM
dub

blahblehblah
11-23-2006, 02:29 AM
While the comeback and Boozers 32 13 and 5 on 14- 20 shooting (wow 14-20!!) was VERY VERY Impressive, THE most impressive thing was Ronnie Price doing his best "John starks DUNK over the bulls or Kevin Johnson DUNK over Hakeem" impersonation ON Boozer ! That dunk was SICK!

Regarding if the Jazz are for real? At the moment they are probably the best team in the NBA, with Boozer dominating the paint, Okur giving them great spacing and long range shooting from the 5 spot, Deron playing great at the point and athleticism and shooting from Fisher, harpring, Brewer, Milsap and Cj miles. All this with AK47 not playing all that great and recently injured.

4cwebb
11-23-2006, 02:49 AM
Milsap has been playing very solid for the Jazz lately, and has been providing the type of spark (seemingly) which AK-47 gives them...I wonder how the minutes will work out between those two once AK-47 returns.

Even if the Jazz end up not "being for real" by the end of the year, it's fun to have a different team showcase it's abilities other than the "traditional" powers of the last few seasons, at least imho.

jleefilled
11-23-2006, 03:36 AM
It looks like Utah is for real. Carlos Boozer looks a lot more -- what is the word -- sleeker than what I remember of him. I hope they stay healthy. They certainly are looking like a worthy contender to the Mavs. Both teams are young and growing...it would make for a fun rivalry just so long as they don't get in the way of the Mavs snagging one of those championship trophies.

jleefilled
11-25-2006, 07:11 PM
From Marc Stein's weekend dime:

1. Utah's Deron Williams: I'll tell you who's not surprised by Williams' sudden leap into Chris Paul's class: Members of the Dallas Mavericks who played pick-up ball with Williams over the summer. They had the first glimpse of a sleeker, quicker scorer/playmaker who shows a greater willingness and ease getting into the paint than he ever displayed as a rookie. "You could see then that he was just going to go by people," says Mavs guard Jason Terry.

Dortmund
11-25-2006, 08:53 PM
i hate DIRK and the MAVS!!!!
LONG LIVE KOBE BRYANT!!!!!!! THE KING IS BACK

fluid.forty.one
11-25-2006, 10:55 PM
uhh...

mqywaaah
11-25-2006, 11:15 PM
I think theyre about to lose tonight vs the Golden Bay boys.

fluid.forty.one
11-26-2006, 12:05 AM
Boozer only has 4 points and they're losing in the 3rd to the Warriors.

ty
11-26-2006, 12:32 AM
i hate DIRK and the MAVS!!!!
LONG LIVE KOBE BRYANT!!!!!!! THE KING IS BACK

...an obvious idiot.

jleefilled
11-26-2006, 12:37 AM
Leave it to Nellie to find a way to beat the Jazz, without Baron Davis no less.

jleefilled
11-26-2006, 12:39 AM
Off topic:

Biedrens had 14 points, 17 boards, 5 blocks, 2 steals!

chumdawg
11-26-2006, 12:41 AM
Biedrins is turning into a freaking Frankenstein.

If this game continues according to form, one has to ask the question: Who is more "for real," Jerry Sloan's Jazz or Don Nelson's Warriors?

Of course, the obvious answer is--as Deion Sanders used to say--"both."

jleefilled
11-26-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm just amazed that Don Nelson can make a game plan to pull the pants down on the Jazz who have been literally unbeatable this year. Boozer, Kirilenko, and Okur combined for 12 points?

I really want Nellie to coach team USA in the next Olympics.

chumdawg
11-26-2006, 01:24 AM
I'm just amazed that Don Nelson can make a game plan to pull the pants down on the Jazz who have been literally unbeatable this year. Boozer, Kirilenko, and Okur combined for 12 points?

I really want Nellie to coach team USA in the next Olympics.That's the most genius idea I have heard in months. You, jleefilled, are a genius. Bring on the gold!

Thespiralgoeson
11-26-2006, 01:33 AM
Nellie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Larry Brown

nashtymavsfan13
11-26-2006, 02:02 AM
I went to the game tonight, some of my thoughts:

-I was thoroughly unimpressed by the Jazz as a whole, they seem sluggish and almost nonchalant. During their pregame warmups they seemed like they felt like they had the game already won.

-The Warriors looked very good tonight. Their defense was surprisingly good, they hustled well on both ends and looked like they wanted this game much more than the Jazz did.

-Biedrins is a beast, he looked very very good tonight. He had one possesion where he had two impressive blocks and looked very good on D. He rebounded well, attacked well on offense, and looked good on D. This young player is going to be good.

-I was very unimpressed with AK. He shot 2/11 and had a couple terrible TO's. Not a good game at all for him tonight.

-Monta Ellis did well, attacked well, and looked good on both ends of the floor. I'm still not convinced that he's THAT much better than Devin. Ellis took like 25 shots tonight and had the production I think Devin is easily capable of if he got the ball so much and got that many shots.

-Deron Williams is the real deal. His 14/8 tonight don't do him justice. He was easily the best player on the floor for the Jazz tonight. I like his court vision and shot recognition. He is going to be a very good player in this league.

-I was surprised at Boozer's stat line, he didn't look like he did that badly tonight. He did well on the boards. He didn't get the ball enough tonight and I think that was mostly the Warriors D. They sealed off the passing lanes well and Biedrins played him very tough.

Overall, nice game. The Warriors looked very very good, and I expected much more out of the Jazz.

some-dude
11-26-2006, 02:21 AM
I went to the game tonight, some of my thoughts:

-I was thoroughly unimpressed by the Jazz as a whole, they seem sluggish and almost nonchalant. During their pregame warmups they seemed like they felt like they had the game already won.

-The Warriors looked very good tonight. Their defense was surprisingly good, they hustled well on both ends and looked like they wanted this game much more than the Jazz did.

-Biedrins is a beast, he looked very very good tonight. He had one possesion where he had two impressive blocks and looked very good on D. He rebounded well, attacked well on offense, and looked good on D. This young player is going to be good.

-I was very unimpressed with AK. He shot 2/11 and had a couple terrible TO's. Not a good game at all for him tonight.

-Monta Ellis did well, attacked well, and looked good on both ends of the floor. I'm still not convinced that he's THAT much better than Devin. Ellis took like 25 shots tonight and had the production I think Devin is easily capable of if he got the ball so much and got that many shots.

-Deron Williams is the real deal. His 14/8 tonight don't do him justice. He was easily the best player on the floor for the Jazz tonight. I like his court vision and shot recognition. He is going to be a very good player in this league.

-I was surprised at Boozer's stat line, he didn't look like he did that badly tonight. He did well on the boards. He didn't get the ball enough tonight and I think that was mostly the Warriors D. They sealed off the passing lanes well and Biedrins played him very tough.

Overall, nice game. The Warriors looked very very good, and I expected much more out of the Jazz.


Hey, I was at the game too...hey wait, weren't you sitting right next to me :p

Anyway, as for the game, the Warriors zone defense killed the Jazz. It was the first time they had really seen it all year and they werent able to adjust. Deron Williams didnt impress me all that much. He had a lot of lazy passes and didn't show up in the 4th like he usually does...most of his stats came in the 1st..and the Jazz lost that quarter 27-14.

AK seemed lost and Boozer and Memo were non-existant...only bright side for the Jazz was Millsap and Fisher.

As for the purpose of the thread, they are now 12-2 and they are for real despite this loss.

chumdawg
11-26-2006, 02:25 AM
So...Nellie whipped out the zone and made them into bitches? Is that correct?

some-dude
11-26-2006, 02:27 AM
So...Nellie whipped out the zone and made them into bitches? Is that correct?

pretty much.

nashtymavsfan13
11-26-2006, 02:36 AM
Hey, I was at the game too...hey wait, weren't you sitting right next to me :p

Anyway, as for the game, the Warriors zone defense killed the Jazz. It was the first time they had really seen it all year and they werent able to adjust. Deron Williams didnt impress me all that much. He had a lot of lazy passes and didn't show up in the 4th like he usually does...most of his stats came in the 1st..and the Jazz lost that quarter 27-14.

AK seemed lost and Boozer and Memo were non-existant...only bright side for the Jazz was Millsap and Fisher.

As for the purpose of the thread, they are now 12-2 and they are for real despite this loss.

Haha yep, it was awesome :). I was impressed by D-Will even though like you pointed out he had some lazy passes. The zone really screwed up the Jazz'x offense, it just seemed very stagnant with no flow to it. But yes, the Jazz are real but I still don't see them winning a title this year.

dude1394
11-26-2006, 04:14 PM
So does nellie still say he doesn't have any players that can play defense or has he finally quit blathering about it and just went all d'antoni?

I think he really should, talking like he gives a crap about defense just hurts his credibility and takes away offensive practice time.

dude1394
11-26-2006, 04:16 PM
Oh, goodness, do I ever. In fact, I talked today with a guy who is sort of a mentor of mine, and who predates me in terms of Mavericks fandom. We were talking about Nellie at Golden State. He said that he would be happy to trade a chance at an NBA title for regular seasons year in and year out that were fun to watch and follow.

And of course, I fully agreed. You are quite right, FFO. There is a "have fun" element to being a fan, which cannot be substituted for. I think you have cut right to the heart of the matter.

Dallas really isn't a "entertainment town", they are a winners town. It works for a while, but if you aren't honestly competing for a championship you aren't getting it done in dallas.

I understand how teams that have been down for so long want any kind of excitement and it's great. But sooner or later they want to take another step, that's when nellie stumbles it seems.

nashtymavsfan13
11-26-2006, 04:39 PM
So does nellie still say he doesn't have any players that can play defense or has he finally quit blathering about it and just went all d'antoni?

I think he really should, talking like he gives a crap about defense just hurts his credibility and takes away offensive practice time.

I'm not sure, but the defense looked darn good yesterday, looked like the players were really concentrating on it in a genuine effort on that end.

dirno2000
11-26-2006, 04:44 PM
Winning is fun no matter what style you play.

Now it you're going to be mediocre then yes, it's better to do it with Nellie's run and gun than Mike Fratello's squeeze the air out of the ball offense.

FINtastic
11-26-2006, 04:52 PM
I'm just amazed that Don Nelson can make a game plan to pull the pants down on the Jazz who have been literally unbeatable this year. Boozer, Kirilenko, and Okur combined for 12 points?

I really want Nellie to coach team USA in the next Olympics.

I'm pretty sure that Satan is already coaching Team USA. But maybe Nellie will get a shot once Coach K's tenure over.

fluid.forty.one
11-27-2006, 09:46 PM
Magic beating the Jazz 33-25 with 8:44 to go in the 2nd.

TripleDipping
11-27-2006, 11:05 PM
Ugly game to watch. I'd be surprised if the Jazz cracked 70 points when it's all said and done. Count me in as not impressed with the Jazz.

fluid.forty.one
11-27-2006, 11:09 PM
12-3 looks a lot more "mortal" than 12-1. They're going to crack soon.

TripleDipping
11-27-2006, 11:22 PM
The Jazz managed to make things somewhat interesting for a while late in 4th but the Magic pulled away at the end. D.Howard is a beast with 21 points and 16 rebounds.

sike
11-28-2006, 12:56 AM
D.Howard is amazing....I like him so much more than that punk Amare.

Thespiralgoeson
11-28-2006, 01:15 AM
For real? Were the 04-05 Sonics for real? Because that's about where I see the Jazz.

nashtymavsfan13
11-28-2006, 01:29 AM
D.Howard is amazing....I like him so much more than that punk Amare.

Amen. He's an awesome player and he has a much better head on his shoulders. His work ethic is great. The Orlando Magic certainly knew what they were doing when they looked at his background.

some-dude
11-28-2006, 01:44 AM
For real? Were the 04-05 Sonics for real? Because that's about where I see the Jazz.

I dont buy the Sonic comparison one bit. They had no interior post game whatsoever and played zero defense. The Jazz have a good post game with Boozer and they play good defense.

If anything a Clipper comparison of last year is good. You have Brand and Kaman comparable to Boozer and Okur to go along with Dwill and then Cassell.

some-dude
11-28-2006, 01:49 AM
Ugly game to watch. I'd be surprised if the Jazz cracked 70 points when it's all said and done. Count me in as not impressed with the Jazz.

One or two games shouldn't change your opinion. If you play well for 12 games and then struggle with 2, more than likely the 12 wins is more relevant to what kind of team you have.

Nonetheless, Jazz are in a very slight funk right now, but Sloan knows his team well. He wont let in continue for very long. Look for a nice bounceback game vs the Spurs imo.

Thespiralgoeson
11-28-2006, 02:03 AM
I dont buy the Sonic comparison one bit. They had no interior post game whatsoever and played zero defense. The Jazz have a good post game with Boozer and they play good defense.

If anything a Clipper comparison of last year is good. You have Brand and Kaman comparable to Boozer and Okur to go along with Dwill and then Cassell.

Right, because last year's Clippers were so much better than the 05 Sonics? Sorry, don't buy it.

AK47 is a nice player, and Deron Williams looks great, but I'm thoroughly unconcerned about the Jazz.

TripleDipping
11-28-2006, 09:30 AM
One or two games shouldn't change your opinion. If you play well for 12 games and then struggle with 2, more than likely the 12 wins is more relevant to what kind of team you have.

Nonetheless, Jazz are in a very slight funk right now, but Sloan knows his team well. He wont let in continue for very long. Look for a nice bounceback game vs the Spurs imo.

Consistency is the key here. Teams can get out of the gate red hot but can they be consistent? I can't see a crew comprised of Boozer, Okur and Deron Williams do that.

Tokey41
11-28-2006, 02:43 PM
The Jazz are good, get over it. As good as us? Hell no. But still I would put them behind the Mavs, Spurs, Suns, Clippers, and Rockets when the seasons done.

The reason no one gives them any credit is obviously due to all the injuries they have suffered the past two seasons. Seriously, now that they are healthy they are winning? Big shocker there. Although I must say like everyone else I had no idea Boozer could play that hard, he is actually earning that contract (finally). No way in hell they remain top dog though, but with that conference they are guaranteed a top four seed anyway so my guess is we'll be seeing them in the second round.

Flacolaco
11-30-2006, 12:15 AM
Seems after tonight this thread deserves our continued attention

nashtymavsfan13
11-30-2006, 12:22 AM
I dont buy the Sonic comparison one bit. They had no interior post game whatsoever and played zero defense. The Jazz have a good post game with Boozer and they play good defense.

If anything a Clipper comparison of last year is good. You have Brand and Kaman comparable to Boozer and Okur to go along with Dwill and then Cassell.

His point was the Sonics played very well, then finished poorly and did nothing in the playoffs that year.

some-dude
11-30-2006, 12:30 AM
His point was the Sonics played very well, then finished poorly and did nothing in the playoffs that year.

Yes, but the reason they did well in regular season was they were able to score 110+ per game and outscore their opponents. The reason they did bad in the playoffs was because when facing teams in a 7 game series, there lack of defense came back to haunt them as the "fastbreak teams can never win"..."defense win championships" sayings came back into play. On the otherhand, Jazz are a well-rounded team. Capable of scoring 110+ a night...or holding their opponent in the 70's as they did to the Spurs tonight...Something Sonics couldnt do.

Thus the only way in which so far they are similar is they got off to hot starts, other than that they are 100% different teams.

nashtymavsfan13
11-30-2006, 12:33 AM
Yes, but the reason they did well in regular season was they were able to score 110+ per game and outscore their opponents. The reason they did bad in the playoffs was because when facing teams in a 7 game series, there lack of defense came back to haunt them as the "fastbreak teams can never win"..."defense win championships" sayings came back into play. On the otherhand, Jazz are a well-rounded team. Capable of scoring 110+ a night...or holding their opponent in the 70's as they did to the Spurs tonight...Something Sonics couldnt do.

Thus the only way in which so far they are similar is they got off to hot starts, other than that they are 100% different teams.

Yes they are different team, neither I nor him is saying different than that. His point was that he feels the hot start is a fluke and that they won't be able to finish out the season as strong and then won't do well in the playoffs. That's where the comparison fits, and why he brought it up. He's saying the Jazz are not for real because of this. I agree with him.

some-dude
11-30-2006, 12:43 AM
Yes they are different team, neither I nor him is saying different than that. His point was that he feels the hot start is a fluke and that they won't be able to finish out the season as strong and then won't do well in the playoffs. That's where the comparison fits, and why he brought it up. He's saying the Jazz are not for real because of this. I agree with him.

3-0 and 4-0 is a hot start. 13-3 is not a hot start...it's a damn good team playing team ball. Its safe to say along with Spurs and Mavs, they are the West's elite this year.

And what makes you feel like they wont finish out season strong? Is it simply because you are not used to seeing Utah up top in the standings so you assume they will fall? I must tell you this is by far the best team Utah has had since the Malone-Stockton era. And Coach Sloan is an elite coach in the NBA. He wont let this team lose its focus when April comes around. You can count on that.

This Utah Jazz team is here to stay.

TheBlueVan
11-30-2006, 12:47 AM
sloan is a great coach, the team is young and talented, but i see them slipping to probably the four or five seed come playoff time. they seem like the kind of team that will wear/slow down, especially after the all-star break. a great record through 16 games does not make a team elite...

some-dude
11-30-2006, 12:56 AM
sloan is a great coach, the team is young and talented, but i see them slipping to probably the four or five seed come playoff time. they seem like the kind of team that will wear/slow down, especially after the all-star break. a great record through 16 games does not make a team elite...

I'll agree to that. But then you can't call team like the Mavs or Spurs elite as of now

You'll can bring up the argument that the Mavs and Spurs are proven 50+ win teams year in and year out,thus they are elite. However you can't compare this Jazz teams to past Jazz teams as an argument for them not being elite. They were never healthy and didnt have Deron Williams, nor nearly the depth on the bench. And yet even without Boozer for over half the season plus no Fisher and Ak in and out of lineup they mustered up 41 wins...with them i see they ending with around 50-55.

nashtymavsfan13
11-30-2006, 12:57 AM
3-0 and 4-0 is a hot start. 13-3 is not a hot start...it's a damn good team playing team ball. Its safe to say along with Spurs and Mavs, they are the West's elite this year.

And what makes you feel like they wont finish out season strong? Is it simply because you are not used to seeing Utah up top in the standings so you assume they will fall? I must tell you this is by far the best team Utah has had since the Malone-Stockton era. And Coach Sloan is an elite coach in the NBA. He wont let this team lose its focus when April comes around. You can count on that.

This Utah Jazz team is here to stay.

Like BlueVan said, 16 games doesn't make a team elite. I don't consider them elite yet and I am not convinced they are real. That's my opinion. If they are still top three by the All-Star break then they can be considered real. They need to prove it. 16 games isn't enough.

nashtymavsfan13
11-30-2006, 01:00 AM
I'll agree to that. But then you can't call team like the Mavs or Spurs elite as of now

You'll can bring up the argument that the Mavs and Spurs are proven 50+ win teams year in and year out,thus they are elite. However you can't compare this Jazz teams to past Jazz teams as an argument for them not being elite. They were never healthy and didnt have Deron Williams, nor nearly the depth on the bench. And yet even without Boozer for over half the season plus no Fisher and Ak in and out of lineup they mustered up 41 wins...with them i see they ending with around 50-55.

The Mavs and Spurs are considered elite because of them being serious contenders yearly for the past 6 or so years. The reason the Jazz can't be considered elite yet is because they haven't proven it yet. Yes they had injuries and are a better team than they were last year, but a team isn't considered elite just because "it's a better team than last year" or "it was injuries that held them back". The way I see it is they have proven nothing yet.

TheBlueVan
11-30-2006, 01:35 AM
ive seen the jazz's potential building for years, its nice to see them playing good, fundamentally sound basketball. i find it funny that sloan was "on the hot seat" last year

chumdawg
11-30-2006, 02:58 AM
The Jazz are the shizzle fo nizzle. They'll be around.

some-dude
11-30-2006, 06:10 PM
For those who have not yet seen Utah play since they have not played the Mavs yet, nor had any televised games, they are playing the Lakers on TNT tonight. Should be a competitive game.

Five-ofan
11-30-2006, 06:45 PM
3-0 and 4-0 is a hot start. 13-3 is not a hot start...it's a damn good team playing team ball. Its safe to say along with Spurs and Mavs, they are the West's elite this year.

And what makes you feel like they wont finish out season strong? Is it simply because you are not used to seeing Utah up top in the standings so you assume they will fall? I must tell you this is by far the best team Utah has had since the Malone-Stockton era. And Coach Sloan is an elite coach in the NBA. He wont let this team lose its focus when April comes around. You can count on that.

This Utah Jazz team is here to stay.
I dont know about why everyone else thinks they will fall off but my personal thoughts are that im just waiting for the inevitable losses that come when Boozer and Ak are both out for prolonged stretches. I do like this team if it can stay healthy though...I can see the deron williams is kidd with a jumper comparisons now.

bigdaddy
11-30-2006, 07:07 PM
Yes, but the reason they did well in regular season was they were able to score 110+ per game and outscore their opponents. The reason they did bad in the playoffs was because when facing teams in a 7 game series, there lack of defense came back to haunt them as the "fastbreak teams can never win"..."defense win championships" sayings came back into play. On the otherhand, Jazz are a well-rounded team. Capable of scoring 110+ a night...or holding their opponent in the 70's as they did to the Spurs tonight...Something Sonics couldnt do.

Thus the only way in which so far they are similar is they got off to hot starts, other than that they are 100% different teams.

sonics did nothing in the playoffs?

they got to the 2nd round and took the champion spurs to 6 very tough games.

they did well in the playoffs

The Crippler
11-30-2006, 11:53 PM
Boozer's 20 game injury should hit pretty soon. There's no way he'll keep up this pace. Just look at his career numbers. He's a pretty good player, but I've watched him for a long time and he's no 21 and 13 guy.

nashtymavsfan13
12-01-2006, 03:28 AM
This is why you can't consider them an elite team yet. They are 13-4, losing 3 of the last 4. They are starting to cool down. I'm not saying that just cuz they got killed tonight means they are cooling off, but losing 3 of the last 4 seems to me to indicate that they are cooling down.....

FINtastic
12-01-2006, 04:25 AM
They are certainly going to have trouble in the playoffs if they can't guard shooting guards. They gave up 57 Redd not too long ago and just gave up 52 to Kobe (in three quarters). With all the great shooting guards out there in the NBA, that's not exactly a formula for success.

Flacolaco
12-01-2006, 09:52 AM
This is why you can't consider them an elite team yet. They are 13-4, losing 3 of the last 4. They are starting to cool down. I'm not saying that just cuz they got killed tonight means they are cooling off, but losing 3 of the last 4 seems to me to indicate that they are cooling down.....

it's starting to look that way. By the time we play them 10 days from now, we could be ahead. Likely hte Spurs will be too.

some-dude
12-12-2006, 01:58 AM
It looks like they showed us something tonight....

Thespiralgoeson
01-22-2007, 02:07 AM
*bump*

Okay, does anyone still think the Jazz are "for real?"

Drbio
01-22-2007, 02:15 AM
27-14 is pretty darned solid. I'd say they will be in the mix.

Thespiralgoeson
01-22-2007, 02:21 AM
27-14 is pretty darned solid. I'd say they will be in the mix.

Oh, they'll be "in the mix" for sure. Maybe I should've asked "does anyone still think they're the best team in the West?"

Drbio
01-22-2007, 02:25 AM
Best in the west....no I don't think so. One of the best...yes.

Dirkadirkastan
01-22-2007, 02:40 AM
Didn't they start out 14-2 or somesuch? If so, they've just been a .500 team since.

chumdawg
01-22-2007, 02:51 AM
Didn't they start out 14-2 or somesuch? If so, they've just been a .500 team since.I hate the endpoint fallacy--and of all people, I'd expect you, DirkaDirkastan, not to fall prey to it.

Male30Dan
01-22-2007, 08:04 AM
Actually Chum, I would think that going 13-12 over your last 25, assuming they were 14-2 to start the season, is something to be worried about, would you not?

shaw-xx
01-22-2007, 08:19 AM
What I care about the Jazz right now is if they will trade AK before the trading deadline... There're rumors they'll make changes.

chumdawg
05-16-2007, 12:41 AM
For real, yo.

some-dude
05-16-2007, 01:06 AM
wow, i had forget i had made this thread....nice find.

looks like they were for real/