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Stranger
12-16-2006, 09:29 PM
NEW YORK (AP) -- Ten players, including NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony, were ejected for fighting during a wild brawl near the end of Saturday night's game between the Denver Nuggets and New York Knicks.

All 10 players on the court at the time were tossed for their involvement in the ugly incident that spread across the court and spilled into the crowd at Madison Square Garden.

Anthony scored 34 points before the melee took place with about 1:15 left in the Nuggets' 123-100 victory over the Knicks.

The fight started after Knicks reserve Mardy Collins flagrantly fouled Denver's J.R. Smith. With punches being thrown by several players, the hitting and grabbing continued for several minutes before coaches and security ran onto the court and finally restored order.

Anthony was involved in a fight with the Knicks' Nate Robinson, who jumped into to jaw at Smith after the foul. Both Smith and Robinson ended up flying into the stands in the NBA's ugliest scene since the brawl between Pacers players and Detroit fans in 2004.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=261216018)

TheBlueVan
12-16-2006, 09:31 PM
i want to see this on espn tongiht

mary
12-16-2006, 09:32 PM
Wow...poor behavior on both sides.

mary
12-16-2006, 09:32 PM
i want to see this on espn tongiht


There are video highlights in the link.

nashtymavsfan13
12-16-2006, 09:34 PM
Nate Robinson took JR Smith out in that clip.

Stranger
12-16-2006, 09:34 PM
Gotta love Carmello picking a fight with a guy over a foot shorter than him (though I haven't watched the video so I don't know who started it.)

TheBlueVan
12-16-2006, 09:36 PM
gotta love street-thug melo! thats my MVP, sucker-punching a guy when he wasnt even involved in how it started

gimme a break

MavsFanFinley
12-16-2006, 09:38 PM
Melo is a stupid bitch. The fight would have been over with the coaches and security getting things under control after Robinson and whoever went into the stands but Melo stepped in with that pop to Collins. Jeffries went crazy didn't he? How many people were holding him back and he was still racing towards the Nuggets bench?

Suspensions and fines will be heavy.

nashtymavsfan13
12-16-2006, 09:43 PM
Melo is a stupid bitch. The fight would have been over with the coaches and security getting things under control after Robinson and whoever went into the stands but Melo stepped in with that pop to Collins. Jeffries went crazy didn't he? How many people were holding him back and he was still racing towards the Nuggets bench?

Suspensions and fines will be heavy.

It was Nate and JR Smith, and Nate took him ouuuttt :eek:

TheBlueVan
12-16-2006, 09:46 PM
if i had been one of those assistant coaches, i would have had a hard time not punching one of my own players for being such an impulsive, uncontrollable, immature dumb@$$

TheBlueVan
12-16-2006, 09:46 PM
carmelo's name should not be mentioned again in mvp consideration

Drbio
12-16-2006, 09:54 PM
wow...just saw the lowlights on a sportsbreak.

HexNBA
12-16-2006, 10:01 PM
What a bunch of fools, unbelievable. Also nice to see Carmelo really hasnt changed from the guy he was his first few years in the league, with the pouting, the baltimore "stop snitching" dvd, marijuana arrest, etc. I look forward to the suspensions and fines.

TripleDipping
12-16-2006, 10:07 PM
Woohoo! Good 'ol NBA throwdown! Nothing beats watching a bunch of NBA sissies acting tough by fighting like bitches.

chumdawg
12-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Kiki Vandeweghe on ESPN NEWS: "Nobody likes a brawl. Not the coach, not the GM, not the fans."

Come again on that last one, Keke?

Dortmund
12-16-2006, 10:11 PM
carmelo is a true g! way to keep it real! MVP!

Flacolaco
12-16-2006, 10:18 PM
you know what the greatest part about this is?

it just makes Sterns job a little tougher tonight and tomorrow. how long before that white hair starts falling out, David?

Drbio
12-16-2006, 10:19 PM
Stern can suck it.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/drbio/NBA/stern2.jpg

KFunk
12-16-2006, 10:27 PM
ah hell. This can't be good for my fantasy players JR and Andre

MavKikiNYC
12-16-2006, 10:36 PM
30 Games/$250,000 for Carmelo

25 Games/$200,000 for Robinson

10 Games/$50,000 for J.R. Smith

5 Games/$25,000 for Jared Jeffries

5 Games/$25,000 for Mardy Collins

5-year suspension for Isiah Thomas

Drbio
12-16-2006, 10:41 PM
Even as a Denver fan kiki, I make that trade because of the Isaiah part. ;) Sometimes you have to take one for the good of the people.

She_Growls
12-16-2006, 10:41 PM
5 yr suspension for Isiah? Oh boy, I can't stop laughing....don't be so mean.

MavKikiNYC
12-16-2006, 10:55 PM
BTW, don't think this doesn't have something to do with Larry Brown.

Denver starters on the floor with a minute left up 20. Karl sticking it to Thomas a little bit. Thomas up his own players' a$$es not to get embarrassed (again) on their own homecourt. Thomas and the NYKs players very upset that they were being shown up.

Voila. Brawl.

Zeke gotta go.

Windmill360
12-16-2006, 11:06 PM
I don't believe it was sticking it to the Knicks.... you go out there to win... and you just pound the other team into submission until the game is over.... No. It wasn't sticking it to the Knicks. Just like when the Saints went for that onside kick against the Cowboys. You play to win, folks.

shaw-xx
12-16-2006, 11:15 PM
Poor Eddie.

Just211
12-16-2006, 11:19 PM
what a stupid move by Melo. Not only will he get suspended, but he has been given a golden ticket by ESPN/NBA by being one of the "chosen 3" LeBron & Wade being the other two, and seems to be trying to give the ticket back. This one puck ass move, could cost him millions in the long run

MavsX
12-16-2006, 11:21 PM
sweeeeet

Dortmund
12-16-2006, 11:50 PM
just kidding... melo is a real pussy. if you're going to punch another player, at least hold your ground and dont run away like a little bitch. i had some respect for him but now i absolutely hate him.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 12:13 AM
I don't believe it was sticking it to the Knicks.... you go out there to win... and you just pound the other team into submission until the game is over.... No. It wasn't sticking it to the Knicks. Just like when the Saints went for that onside kick against the Cowboys. You play to win, folks.
It's nothing like the onside kick against the Cowboys. The Cowboys still had plenty of time to get back into the game. The onside kick was a backbreaker...

That is a horrible comparison.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Melo is a worthless piece of shit. One of these days, he's going to be found face down in a ditch and no one will care.

Tokey41
12-17-2006, 12:21 AM
I still like Melo better than Wade, but I can't really understand why he would get into it in the first place. And he was having such a good year too...

dude1394
12-17-2006, 12:25 AM
It's nothing like the onside kick against the Cowboys. The Cowboys still had plenty of time to get back into the game. The onside kick was a backbreaker...

That is a horrible comparison.

Agreed...He's still smarting from the take-down.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 12:37 AM
I still like Melo better than Wade, but I can't really understand why he would get into it in the first place. And he was having such a good year too...
....because he's a sorry piece of shit?

Tokey41
12-17-2006, 12:47 AM
I'd go with cowardly gangster over piece of shit, but still... hate Wade more. Guy should have just minded his own business and has no one to blame but himself. As the franchise player shouldnt he should apologize for his actions? You might expect it out of J.R but not Melo.

This is where having a calm seven foot german guy who digs Hasselhoff pays off, no gangsters on the mavericks!

MeganLuvsMavs
12-17-2006, 12:50 AM
I think it's so quick to pass judgement but I think anybody in that situation would have done the same thing unless you have an unbelieveable amount of control in those type of moments.


I'm still trying to find the logic in a hockey fight being completely normal, but let a NBA or NFL fight happen and it's an "unbelieveable" event. Let em fight...it's just nature.

vjz
12-17-2006, 12:59 AM
Gotta love Carmello picking a fight with a guy over a foot shorter than him (though I haven't watched the video so I don't know who started it.)

... and 'Melo started running away after the punch.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 01:30 AM
I think it's so quick to pass judgement but I think anybody in that situation would have done the same thing unless you have an unbelieveable amount of control in those type of moments.



Surely you're not speaking about what Carmelo did, are you?

Drbio
12-17-2006, 01:33 AM
ESPN is raising the question....Did Isaiah Thomas order a flagrant foul?


Interesting question. Carmelo was dead wrong in throwing that sucker punch and will pay for it. I like the kid but there is no excuse for that.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 01:41 AM
You liking Carmelo explains alot about you...
You have some interesting taste in which athletes you like and don't like.

Drbio
12-17-2006, 01:43 AM
Carmelo is fun to watch play. AI is fun to watch play. There are several talented athletes that I like to watch who have skeletons in their closet. I didn't say I wanted to hang out with the guy or anything. He is going to pay big time for that stupid punch though.

CarolinaJHoFan
12-17-2006, 01:50 AM
I hate Melo even more now. Cant wait to hear the fine on this one.

dirno2000
12-17-2006, 01:56 AM
Not a smart move on Mello's part. The West is so competitive that a prolonged absence by it's star will probably cost a team precious playoff seeding.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this incident lessens his viability as a pitch man. Then again AI’s been able to profit off of being view by the 40 something white guy as a thug so maybe it goes the other way.

Of course all that being said, Mardy Collins got knocked the F***k out :)

Kiki Vandeweghe on ESPN NEWS: "Nobody likes a brawl. Not the coach, not the GM, not the fans."

Come again on that last one, Keke?

Yea, I'm probably in the minority here but an incident like this doesn't offend my sensibilities at all. I though the whole thing was pretty entertaining.

BTW, don't think this doesn't have something to do with Larry Brown.

Good observation…I didn’t think about that until you brought it up.

Drbio
12-17-2006, 02:11 AM
Not a smart move on Mello's part. The West is so competitive that a prolonged absence by it's star will probably cost a team precious playoff seeding.

Not a bad point at all.

rakesh.s
12-17-2006, 02:56 AM
isiah thomas is a punk

carmelo is a punk

I wonder how many games we're looking at for carmelo..

over/under: 20 games

MavsMandy
12-17-2006, 03:06 AM
man, i have melo, miller, and smith on my fantasy team. things were just beginning to come together, and now this. screw you, denver.

not only is melo a punk, but he's also a pansy. punches a guy who's restrained and then basically runs away when jeffries tries to retaliate. lame.

bernardos70
12-17-2006, 03:48 AM
I remember watching an episode of Punk'd where Carmelo was acting like a complete bitch, he took it entirely the wrong way, he was just a stuck up twit. I kinda forgot that this year with his stellar play and nice attitude...... then he does this. Incredible. MJ's mentoring can't save this guy, he's hopeless. You simply have to recognize how blessed you are to be in the NBA making more money in a year than the vast majority of people in the world will make in their lifetimes and let go of stuff. You can't stand up for your teammates like this, because in the long run you'll be abandoning them with the long suspension. Brainless. He's up there with the rapist as one of my least favorite players, and my interest in the Nuggets is completely gone.

S'nasty13
12-17-2006, 03:50 AM
Melo had a one way ticket to Las Vegas for the All-Star game. Now, He might barely make it back for the playoffs. What an Idiot.

Dirkadirkastan
12-17-2006, 03:55 AM
5-year suspension for Isiah Thomas

Yeah, suspensions should be dealt based on how much the league hates each person. Why Stern's personal grudges haven't earned Cuban a 20-year ban yet is beyond me.

MavKikiNYC
12-17-2006, 07:11 AM
I don't believe it was sticking it to the Knicks.... you go out there to win... and you just pound the other team into submission until the game is over.... No. It wasn't sticking it to the Knicks. Just like when the Saints went for that onside kick against the Cowboys. You play to win, folks.
Well, the Thomas and the NYKs seem to think they were having it stuck to them, which certainly says something about their state of mind prior to the fight, and which strongly suggests it was being discussed in their huddle.

FWIW, I don't mind seeing the NYKs having their faces rubbed in it, but having starters in the game with 1 minute left and a 20-point lead doesn't seem comparable at all to an onside kick with something like 1 or 1.5 quarters left to play and a 18-point (or whatever lead). That was a a stake through the heart in a game that was still being contested.

Of course that's zero-excuse for Thomas not having better control over his players and over his team. Maybe if three years of ineptitude as GM, the Larry Brown debacle and the sexual harassment lawsuit don't get him, maybe just maybe this brawl will cause a neruon to fire in Dolan's all-bone brain.


Knicks fight to a new low
10 ejected in Garden melee

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

The Knicks say they were only protecting their home turf, their good names and a rookie teammate who was in the middle of something ugly. What they failed to acknowledge was culpability on any level in a nasty fight with the Denver Nuggets last night that started with Mardy Collins' needless flagrant foul, was foolishly escalated by Nate Robinson, and ended with Carmelo Anthony throwing a sucker punch that will earn him a lengthy suspension.

"Clearly, this isn't how we or the NBA or anybody wants to be perceived," Isiah Thomas said. "It should have been a foul and a guy takes two free throws. Maybe somebody has words, but it definitely should haven't escalated into this. This isn't even a rivalry."

The surreal scene broke out with 1:15 remaining in Denver's 123-100 victory at a sold-out Garden when Collins committed a flagrant foul on Nuggets guard J.R. Smith, who three minutes earlier electrified the crowd with a reverse dunk.

If Collins' intentions were to prevent a dunk, he succeeded by grabbing Smith by the shoulders and throwing him hard to the floor. It was excessive to say the least. Smith immediately rose to his feet and exchanged heated words with Collins but never raised his fists.

Nate Robinson immediately interceded and pushed Smith away and began making threatening gestures. Smith responded by going after Robinson and throwing a punch that resulted in the two players spilling into the first row on the baseline, opposite to the Knicks' bench.

After the players were separated, Robinson continued to gesture at Smith, challenging him yet again. Meanwhile, Anthony found Collins and landed an open right hand to Collins' face that set into motion the all-out brawl. Jared Jeffries and Collins chased after Anthony, and had it not been for Garden security and the coaching staffs of both teams, the situation could have resembled the Pacers-Pistons brawl from two years ago.

Garden chairman James Dolan and Garden president Steve Mills were in attendance and refused to comment after watching a replay of the incident in a video room adjacent to the Knicks' locker room.
The five players for each team on the floor at the time of the melee were all ejected. Afterward, the Knicks made several stunning admissions, including Thomas' belief that Anthony, Marcus Camby, Andre Miller and Smith - four starters - should not have been in the game at that point. In fact, after the fight ended, Thomas met with Anthony at center court to tell him exactly that.

"I just said to him you're up or up 19 with a minute and a half to go. You and Camby really shouldn't be in the game right now," Thomas said with a nervous laugh. "We had surrendered. And those guys shouldn't have been in the game at that time. They were sticking it to us pretty good. They were having their way with us pretty good. I think J.R. Smith had just made one dunk where he reverses it and spins in the air. I thought that Mardy didn't want to have our home crowd see that again and he fouled him."

Of course, that doesn't explain how 24 hours earlier Collins committed a flagrant foul with 1:44 left in a loss to Indiana with the Knicks down 16. At the time, the Pacers' five players on the floor were all backups: Maceo Baston, Shawne Williams, Marquis Daniels, Josh Powell and Sarunas Jasikevicius.

It is no surprise Thomas would hint that the Nuggets were piling on and trying to humiliate his team. There is history between Thomas and George Karl, two coaches linked by former Knicks coach Larry Brown. Karl is a longtime friend of Brown's, and last summer he had an animated discussion with Thomas at the Vegas Summer League after Karl made comments critical of the Knicks.

Robinson's take on what transpired last night bordered on ludicrous. In fact, Robinson admitted the foul was pre-meditated, saying "for what they did as in keeping guys in I knew a foul was going to come. A hard one because we're not going to let guys keep dunking when they're up 20 and they have their starters in. It was a good clean, hard foul. After that, it went downhill from there."

Robinson said he does not regret his actions and felt that the punishment for Smith was justified even though the game was already out of reach.

"It was kinda weird," Robinson said. "Things happened so fast. You're trying to protect your team, you're trying to protect yourself in a situation like that.

"They wanted to embarrass us. It was a slap in the face to us as a team and a franchise and we weren't going to let that happen."

Robinson, of course, is the same player who has earned a reputation for breaking the code of honor on the basketball court. Just two weeks ago, Robinson botched a breakaway layup against Cleveland when he attempted to bounce the ball off the floor and dunk it. Robinson was also one of the Knicks laughing it up on the bench during a blowout victory over Atlanta on Wednesday after Jerome James dunked.
Robinson, Collins, Jeffries, David Lee and Channing Frye were in the game during the brawl and were ejected. Eduardo Najera was the fifth Nuggets player ejected. The NBA is expected to hand down its punishment today.

Dr.Zoidberg
12-17-2006, 07:22 AM
The attempt of George Karl one of the best friends of Larry Brown to humble Isia Thomas, has profoundly been a cock-up. He left his starters playing till the end of the game although it was a blowout win and the Knicks already took out their starters.

This will be a hard time for the Nuggets in the upcoming games with probably all starters getting suspensions, and that in a season in which they could be one of the front-runners in the league. Anthony busted one of his best years in his career in which he has had a chance for a place at he allstar game and to get his team on the top. And all that in a meaningless blowout win against he Knicks. What a moron!

I wouldn´t be surprised if this brawl will affect the trade negotiations with Philly and the other involved teams about AI also.

kg_veteran
12-17-2006, 07:25 AM
I agree about Isiah fueling the brawl. That foul sure looked like it was ordered by the coach to me. I've seen plenty of blowuts in the NBA where nobody gets mad like that. Thomas is telling his team to get mad about it.

As for Anthony, what a punk move to sucker punch somebody. I hope he's out for a LONG time.

mary
12-17-2006, 08:23 AM
Saturday night, the Knicks were chatty about their feelings of being wronged. Robinson went on to say Collins' play was "just a good foul, going for the ball." Jeffries said the Knicks "have always been close. And that showed tonight."

I enjoyed this quote. Yeah Nate...he's was going for the ball...and the Knicks have awlays been know for being "close"...:rolleyes:

mary
12-17-2006, 08:25 AM
By Chris Dempsey
Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:12/17/2006 12:55:36 AM MST

New York - With each Nuggets sprint up the court that resulted in a dunk of some sort, the New York Knicks fumed.

Each minute the Denver starters stayed on the court late in the fourth quarter with a large lead made the Knicks even madder.

That anger, taken out late in the closing minutes of the Nuggets' 123-100 win Saturday, resulted in a hard foul that led to a fight that spilled into fans and back across the court and will cost Denver its star player, Carmelo Anthony, for an unknown number of games.

"I feel bad for the league, I feel bad for the Denver Nuggets and the New York Knicks," Nuggets coach George Karl said. "It was a very poor display of respecting the game in the best place in the world to play basketball."

In all, 10 players - everyone playing in the game at the time - were ejected.

After the game, Knicks coach Isiah Thomas said he questioned Anthony during the fourth quarter as to why he was still in the game. A Nuggets source said Anthony responded "We need this one," to which Anthony was warned by Thomas: "Your best bet is not to go to the hole."

With less than two minutes remaining, Nuggets guard J.R. Smith was on the break, headed for at least a layup, when he was knocked out of the air by Knicks guard Mardy Collins, who wrapped his arm around Smith's neck. Smith jumped into Collins' face and Knicks guard Nate Robinson intervened, pushing Smith.

Anthony entered the scuffle with pushes of his own before the situation with Robinson and Smith escalated into Robinson tossing a couple of half-punches and Smith jumping on him, taking them both into the crowd as he tried to throw punches.

As Smith and Robinson were pulled back onto the court, Anthony and Collins had words that culminated in Anthony punching Collins in the face. Knicks forward Jared Jeffries tried to get at Anthony, who backpedaled his way to the opposite baseline. It was then the referees got the teams back near their respective benches and did something no one asked could ever remember seeing, ejecting everyone on the floor.

Anthony, Marcus Camby, Andre Miller, Eduardo Najera and Smith were tossed, and the Knicks lost Collins, Channing Frye, Jeffries, David Lee and Robinson. The final 1:15 was played with bench players. Karl also removed everyone from the main arena floor except for those who were on the court.

For the Knicks, this was the point in the first place.

"We had surrendered," Thomas said. "Those guys shouldn't even be in the game at that point in time."

Said Robinson: "I knew a foul was coming. We weren't going to let those guys keep dunking, keep dunking and they had their starters in. I've never been on a team that was up 20 and kept their starters in. We're not just going to let teams embarrass us."

Karl balked at the notion he should have removed his starters.

"I'm not going to comment on that (question)," Karl said. "We were conservative and substituted conservatively in the second half. Sometimes you just have to finish the game with the guys on the court."

Karl and Thomas had a blowup earlier this season. Karl had questioned the firing of Larry Brown, to which Thomas responded: "I just made the point that he should talk about his own team and quit talking about ours."

Saturday night, the Knicks were chatty about their feelings of being wronged. Robinson went on to say Collins' play was "just a good foul, going for the ball." Jeffries said the Knicks "have always been close. And that showed tonight."

Guard Stephon Marbury added: "Normally starters aren't in the game at that time. I guess George Karl thought his team was going to lose."

The Nuggets simply clammed up. Anthony was asked repeatedly about the fight, but generally refused comment.

About an impending suspension, Anthony said, "We shall see what happens. I don't know what to expect at this point."

Smith didn't offer much more: "I don't want to talk about it."

On the subject of Collins, Smith said: "I don't even know him. That was the first time I've ever seen the dude."

What's certain now is the duo will be linked for starting a brawl that had many reminiscing about the infamous Pacers-Pistons brawl in 2004 at the Palace at Auburn Hills. With a seven-game homestand on the horizon, the Nuggets could be without their captain for a sizable chunk, if not all of it.

"The whole scene ... whatever word you want to use is probably correct," Karl said. "It was a lack of mental stability, violent. I'm not going to comment because I don't know what happened exactly. It puts a cloud over a good win for us."

Staff writer Marc J. Spears contributed to this report.

Staff writer Chris Dempsey can be reached at 303-954-1279 or cdempsey@denverpost.com.
NBA's rules regarding fights

SECTION VI: FIGHTING FOULS

A. Technical fouls shall be assessed players, coaches or trainers for fighting. No free throws will be attempted. The participants will be ejected immediately.

B. This rule applies whether play is in progress or the ball is dead.

C. If a fighting foul occurs with a team in possession of the ball, that team will retain possession on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free-throw line extended.

D. If a fighting foul occurs with neither team in possession, play will be resumed with a jump ball between any two opponents who were in the game at the center circle.

E. A fine not exceeding $35,000 and/or suspension may be imposed upon such person(s) by the commissioner at his sole discretion.

SECTION VII: FINES

A. Recipients of technical fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct will be assessed a $500 fine for the first offense, and an additional $500 for the second offense in any one given game, for a minimum total of $1,000. If a player is ejected on (1) the first technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct, (2) a punching foul, (3) a fighting foul, (4) an elbow foul or (5) a flagrant foul, he shall be fined a minimum of $1,000.

B. Whether or not said player(s) is ejected, a fine not exceeding $35,000 and/or suspension may be imposed upon such player(s) by the commissioner at his sole discretion.

C. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game. A team must have a minimum of eight players dressed and ready to play in every game. If five or more players leave the bench, the players will serve their suspensions alphabetically, according to the first letters of their last name. If seven bench players are suspended (assuming no participants are included), four of them would be suspended for the first game following the altercation. The remaining three would be suspended for the second game following the altercation.

D. A player, coach or assistant coach, upon being notified by an official that he has been ejected from the game, must leave the playing area IMMEDIATELY.

Source: NBA.com

dude1394
12-17-2006, 08:50 AM
Meanwhile, Anthony found Collins and landed an open right hand to Collins' face that set into motion the all-out brawl.


Open palm, no punch right? This was a strange thing to put in that story, it seemed a little like spin to me. Unless it's obviously true.

Nash13
12-17-2006, 08:53 AM
After sleeping on it, it didn't seem as bad. First, i agree with whoever talked about the double standard with the NHL and NBA/NFL. Also, in the MLB, brawls are barely even touched on by the media.

I also think it's easy to take the high road in a situation that doesn't involve you. I can't really fault any Knicks or Nuggets who got in the mix, J.R. Smith in particular. I've never been in a fight, but i think at the least, i would've shoved Collins for the foul.

In addition, i think those who think there will be heavy suspensions are in for a big disappointment. Because nobody involved has priors (as far as oncourt antics), there was only one punch thrown, and even then it was more of a slap. Also, nobody went after any fans. I think that they might use last preseason's fight between Haywood/A. Davis as a precedent.

Last, i truly believe this had Isaah Thomas written all over it. He sends one of his least important players to commit a hard foul. That was my first thought. I didn't know Karl had all 5 starters in until later on. So he probably was trying to stick it to him. And like Dirno, i found it to be kind of entertaining. You had one assistant coach throw a clipboard at Nate to stop him, then you have Jared "the skinniest guy in the league" Jeffries who could barely be held back.

Big Boy Laroux
12-17-2006, 10:06 AM
it was open hand. which makes it even more of a bitch move. slap somebody, then run away. good lord, carmelo couldn't backpedal fast enough. but that open hand could mean quite a difference when the suspensions are handed down... but then again, he did re-escalate the situation when everything had somewhat calemd down.

i did find it somewhat respectable that jeffries stuck up for his teammate like that. not condoning fighting, but that may help him with fitting in with his teammates.

ok, isiah and the knicks are going on and on about being humiliated... that the nuggets had their starters in and the knicks basically "surrendered". but the knicks still had two starters on the court, and 2 other guys that had played 30 minutes in the game. that doesn't look like a white flag to me. i don't blame karl at all for continuing to play his guys (it's dumb because someone could have gotten hurt, but i don't think that's a legitimate excuse for the fight starting).

lots of people mentioned it, and i agree. this definitely looks like an ordered flagrant foul. thomas puts collins in, and the first minute he's out there, he mugs somebody. isiah came off looking like a chump in the press conference.

MavKikiNYC
12-17-2006, 10:27 AM
it was open hand. which makes it even more of a bitch move. slap somebody, then run away. good lord, carmelo couldn't backpedal fast enough. but that open hand could mean quite a difference when the suspensions are handed down... but then again, he did re-escalate the situation when everything had somewhat calemd down.

Question is: How much street cred does Melo lose for his slap-and-run move?

Can he braid his hair tighter? More tattoos? More bling? Order more police killings in a rap recording? He and his marketeers should use his suspension time to strategize.

Big Boy Laroux
12-17-2006, 10:33 AM
i think alternating between HUGE afro and cornrows really ups your street cred. maybe he can do that for a while. I have a thing for huge afros.

MavsX
12-17-2006, 10:35 AM
isah thomas is a piece of trash.

MavsX
12-17-2006, 10:36 AM
i think alternating between HUGE afro and cornrows really ups your street cred. maybe he can do that for a while. I have a thing for huge afros.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Big Boy Laroux again

jthig32
12-17-2006, 10:56 AM
I just can't get over how he ran away after the slap........unreal. What a fake thug.

Windmill360
12-17-2006, 11:04 AM
Hahahaha... ok i get it now.................. .

bernardos70
12-17-2006, 12:57 PM
This did prove NBA players can't fight worth a damn. They're terrible wusses.

rmacomic
12-17-2006, 01:17 PM
A friend of mine, Mo Alexander, (a 400 pound african american who got me into my ocupation). Called me today. He asked if I had seen the fight. I said yeah. To which he replied. N.B.A. N***rs Beating Ass. Is it wrong that I laughed for 5 minutes?

dude1394
12-17-2006, 01:20 PM
A friend of mine, Mo Alexander, (a 400 pound african american who got me into my ocupation). Called me today. He asked if I had seen the fight. I said yeah. To which he replied. N.B.A. N***rs Beating Ass. Is it wrong that I laughed for 5 minutes?

Yes..that's not a word that nice people would use. Your friend is a racist.

WurzburgBorn
12-17-2006, 01:22 PM
Maybe Denver is the right place for Iverson, after all.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 01:25 PM
RMA Comic, for someone that has supposedly done some stand-up or whatever, you're not a very funny guy.

rmacomic
12-17-2006, 01:28 PM
Yes..that's not a word that nice people would use. Your friend is a racist.
Yeah uhm... He's black. When he says something like that I don't think of him being racist .

rmacomic
12-17-2006, 01:40 PM
RMA Comic, for someone that has supposedly done some stand-up or whatever, you're not a very funny guy.
Geeze, I thought the line was both clever and timely. Especialy in the context it was told to me. If you don't think it was funny thats one thing, but I think you just look for any excuse to start crap with me, because of the whole "Apocolypto" thing. Have fun holding your grudge.:rolleyes:

dude1394
12-17-2006, 02:10 PM
Yeah uhm... He's black. When he says something like that I don't think of him being racist .

Sorry anyone who would say that is a racist.

rmacomic
12-17-2006, 02:22 PM
Sorry anyone who would say that is a racist.Ya know When I was typing it out I thought "These guys don't know Mo" "They're just gonna see this as racist." Sometimes I hate my fingers for ignoring my brain.

dude1394
12-17-2006, 02:26 PM
Ya know When I was typing it out I thought "These guys don't know Mo" "They're just gonna see this as racist." Sometimes I hate my fingers for ignoring my brain.

To be honest I'm just giving you stuff. Since no one knows what is arbitrarily declared racist or not, I've decided that anyone who says that is racist. Pretty much as good reasoning as I hear anywhere else.

I'm still trying to decide if cracker, redneck, trailer-trash are racist (or bigoted) as well. I'm leaning towards a yes.

mary
12-17-2006, 03:56 PM
This did prove NBA players can't fight worth a damn. They're terrible wusses.


Nolan Ryan needs to put out an instructional video. :D

Drbio
12-17-2006, 03:59 PM
Nolan Ryan needs to put out an instructional video. :D

You will get rep as soon as I can for this. Ryan is one of my heros. :D

http://www.sportsgalleryweb.com/images/baseball/photos/nolan_ryan_robin_ventura_large_large.jpg

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 04:56 PM
The best thing about the Nolan Ryan game is that he didn't get kicked out.

dude1394
12-17-2006, 07:08 PM
You will get rep as soon as I can for this. Ryan is one of my heros. :D

http://www.sportsgalleryweb.com/images/baseball/photos/nolan_ryan_robin_ventura_large_large.jpg
Take THAT! and THAT! and here...let me wind up and THAT! Punk..get your ass back to the dugout.

fluid.forty.one
12-17-2006, 07:42 PM
God I hope melo gets suspended for 20+ games.

Tokey41
12-17-2006, 08:52 PM
I don't know why everyone is hating primarily on Melo, I know he sucker punched the guy but Nate's clearly a little hypocritical bitch too...

To quote the article MavKiki posted:

"They wanted to embarrass us. It was a slap in the face to us as a team and a franchise and we weren't going to let that happen."

Robinson, of course, is the same player who has earned a reputation for breaking the code of honor on the basketball court. Just two weeks ago, Robinson botched a breakaway layup against Cleveland when he attempted to bounce the ball off the floor and dunk it. Robinson was also one of the Knicks laughing it up on the bench during a blowout victory over Atlanta on Wednesday after Jerome James dunked.


I guess it's okay for New York players to enjoy the blowout games because that happens about once every eight two games. He was the one jaw jacking with J.R . Idiot.

HexNBA
12-17-2006, 09:05 PM
Melo apologizes for role in Garden melee

ESPN.com

A day after decking the Knicks' Mardy Collins during a Madison Square Garden brawl in which 10 players were ejected, NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony offered an apology for his actions.

"Last night's altercation with the Knicks escalated further than it should have," Anthony said in a statement released Sunday. "I take full responsibility for my actions in the matter. In the heat of the moment I let my emotions get the best of me. I apologize to the fans, the Denver Nuggets, the NBA, my mother, and my family for the embarrassment I have caused them. I ask you all for your forgiveness.

"I also want to make a personal apology to Mardy Collins and his family. My actions were inexcusable, and I am sorry for making this an even more embarrassing situation.

"What makes this all the more painful is that this was one of the biggest weeks of my life. I just realized one of my biggest dreams when we opened the Youth Center in Baltimore that bares my name. To see the community excited and hundreds of kids smiling was an incredible feeling. Now the thought of thousands of kids seeing this incident on TV pains me. This is not the example I want to set.

"It's my hope that we work to move forward from this event, and never let something like this happen again."

The NBA is expected to hand down punishments for the fight on Monday. Suspensions are likely for Anthony and the other players involved in escalating the melee.

V2M
12-17-2006, 09:22 PM
Melo apologizes for role in Garden melee

"I just realized one of my biggest dreams when we opened the Youth Center in Baltimore that bares my name."

Melo... you probably meant to say 'bears', not 'bares'. Or may be not... my bad!

raefformvp
12-17-2006, 09:35 PM
let me start off by saying that I think last night's ordeal was awful and doesn't do much for the image of the NBA. melo bitch slapping someone then running away like a little girl is going to tarnish his reputation for quite some time. and I don't really care about running up the score. it's not classy, but whatever. the worst part of the whole thing to me was the foul. it was horrible.

pic of foul: (looks like he's trying to decapitate him!)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c655a3f0e5.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

and when someone does something like that, retaliation is acceptable in my opinion. we would be up in arms if someone did that to one of our Mavs and then nobody got in the guy's face. my question is, how far is too far when it comes to retaliation? clearly what happened last night was too far. but I have no problem with the initial shoves going on after that foul.

oh, and that nate robinson is one tough little guy. I'd take him over melo if I needed someone to have my back in a fight.

V2M
12-17-2006, 09:51 PM
I think, Karl & Thomas are the real culprits. It's childish & unprofessional of them to disrespect the game by using their players to get back at each other.

I don't condone what the players did which is obviously very stupid (especially Melo!)... but I believe, the two coaches deserve to be suspended far longer than the players themselves for creating a situation that caused the brawl in the first place.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 10:15 PM
I must say that anyone that thinks the coaches deserve to be suspended longer than 'Melo is absolutely out of their mind. The be blunt, that is an idiotic comment.

TripleDipping
12-17-2006, 10:15 PM
Melo apologizes for role in Garden melee

ESPN.com

A day after decking the Knicks' Mardy Collins during a Madison Square Garden brawl in which 10 players were ejected, NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony offered an apology for his actions.

"Last night's altercation with the Knicks escalated further than it should have," Anthony said in a statement released Sunday. "I take full responsibility for my actions in the matter. In the heat of the moment I let my emotions get the best of me. I apologize to the fans, the Denver Nuggets, the NBA, my mother, and my family for the embarrassment I have caused them. I ask you all for your forgiveness.

"I also want to make a personal apology to Mardy Collins and his family. My actions were inexcusable, and I am sorry for making this an even more embarrassing situation.

"What makes this all the more painful is that this was one of the biggest weeks of my life. I just realized one of my biggest dreams when we opened the Youth Center in Baltimore that bares my name. To see the community excited and hundreds of kids smiling was an incredible feeling. Now the thought of thousands of kids seeing this incident on TV pains me. This is not the example I want to set.

"It's my hope that we work to move forward from this event, and never let something like this happen again."

The NBA is expected to hand down punishments for the fight on Monday. Suspensions are likely for Anthony and the other players involved in escalating the melee.


That was a very good speech written by Melo's publicist or agent.

Murphy3
12-17-2006, 10:20 PM
I don't know why everyone is hating primarily on Melo, I know he sucker punched the guy but Nate's clearly a little hypocritical bitch too...

To quote the article MavKiki posted:

"They wanted to embarrass us. It was a slap in the face to us as a team and a franchise and we weren't going to let that happen."

Robinson, of course, is the same player who has earned a reputation for breaking the code of honor on the basketball court. Just two weeks ago, Robinson botched a breakaway layup against Cleveland when he attempted to bounce the ball off the floor and dunk it. Robinson was also one of the Knicks laughing it up on the bench during a blowout victory over Atlanta on Wednesday after Jerome James dunked.


I guess it's okay for New York players to enjoy the blowout games because that happens about once every eight two games. He was the one jaw jacking with J.R . Idiot.
It's obvious why everyone is on carmelo's case. The situation was basically over when he comes in and takes a cheap shot at a guy... If he would have hit him flush, there's absolutely no telling how much physical damage could be done. Taking a swing at someone that's totally not suspecting it is not only a cowardly thing to do, it's incredibly dangerous. After that, Melo runs away and hides.

So you tell me... Why is everyone on 'Melo's case?

Tokey41
12-17-2006, 11:01 PM
Well the whole incident could have easily been avoided if Nate didn't start talking back to J.R who had a right to be pissed about being fouled flagarantly. Now I already said sucker punching a guy is just wrong, but Melo's not the one who escalated the situation (just extended it). He's just the one who couldn't keep his emotions in check. Does it make him innocent? Of course not, but the other players like Collins and Robinson should be blamed for it as much as Melo is on this board.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 08:44 AM
Obviously, the incident doesn't happen without the first act. But you can't look at this as one big incident. There was the incident involving the flagrant foul and a little skirmish.. then there was the incident where 'Melo cowardly punched someone that wasn't expecting it.

So where are you wanting to place the blame? Sure, you can place all the blame in the world on a few guys for getting into a very minor altercation. That's fine. They can have all of that blame. And for that, they'll get a relatively light suspension. Now, 'Melo can take the blame for endangering someone's career by throwing a sucker punch. So why does 'Melo get all the hate here on the board? Because what he did was so much more cowardly and dangerous.

V2M
12-18-2006, 08:51 AM
Report: NBA investigating if Knicks' Thomas ordered hard foul
Daily News Wire Services

The NBA is investigating whether Isiah Thomas, the president and coach of the Knicks, ordered a hard foul that touched off a brawl with the Denver Nuggets on Saturday night at Madison Square Garden, several people involved in the investigation told the New York Times yesterday.

The Nuggets, according to those people, are pointing to an exchange between Thomas and Carmelo Anthony - part of which was captured by the MSG Network - that seemed to convey a threat. None of the people who spoke about the exchange wanted to be identified, because the investigation was ongoing.

Ten players were ejected after the fight, which started when Mardy Collins, a Knicks rookie from Temple, clobbered the Nuggets' J.R. Smith as he was driving for a basket. Four players threw punches and Jared Jeffries has to be restrained from going after Anthony after the Denver star threw a punch that floored Collins.

Anthony apologized yesterday.

Some of the players, and possibly Thomas, are expected to receive suspensions today once the league reviews the MSG tape and interviews players, coaches and security personnel. There is no known NBA precedent for punishing a coach for instigating a fight.

With 1 minute, 32 seconds left, the MSG broadcast focused on Thomas while Denver's Marcus Camby shot free throws. The Nuggets were leading by 117-100. Thomas, standing on the sideline, his arms folded and his jaw tight, bites his lower lip and then starts talking to a Nuggets player. The player is not in the camera shot, but the broadcaster Mike Breen notes that Thomas is talking to Anthony.

There is no audio of Thomas, but he appears to say: "Hey, don't go to the basket right now. It wouldn't be nice." Seconds later, Thomas cocks his head, holds out his right palm and, with a slight smile, adds, "Just letting you know."

Calvin Andrews, Anthony's agent, confirmed last night that Thomas had told Anthony to stay away from the area under the basket. Andrews indicated that Anthony gave that account to NBA officials earlier yesterday.

The Knicks were off yesterday, and team officials declined to comment on the incident.

Drbio
12-18-2006, 09:00 AM
Man....I hope the league throws Thomas under the bus with the rest of them.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 09:14 AM
Tokey, let me see if I can simplify it for you... You seem a bit confused. Suppose there's a situation where a guy's driving his car and accidentally rear ends another car at a red light. The guy that was 'rear-ended' gets out of his car and takes out his gun and starts shooting at the guy who 'rear-ended' him. In the process, he shoots and kills one of the passengers.

So, with your line of reasoning earlier in this thread, the guy that should catch as much criticism is the man that rear-ended the other individual? He should get life in prison because if he hadn't started the situation with the traffic infraction, this situation never would have occurred. Well, that's not how it works. Just because someone started the situation does not mean that they are the ones that will ultimately pay the most.

kg_veteran
12-18-2006, 09:32 AM
I think that Dolan is just getting his buddy Stern to help him build a case so that he can fire Thomas for some sort of conduct violation and not have to pay him for the rest of his contract. ;)

WurzburgBorn
12-18-2006, 09:56 AM
I think, Karl & Thomas are the real culprits. It's childish & unprofessional of them to disrespect the game by using their players to get back at each other.

I don't condone what the players did which is obviously very stupid (especially Melo!)... but I believe, the two coaches deserve to be suspended far longer than the players themselves for creating a situation that caused the brawl in the first place.

Exactly. The coaches facilitated it.

Thomas and Karl should be suspended 10 games, and tied up and made to watch Beaches together.

bernardos70
12-18-2006, 10:36 AM
Tokey, let me see if I can simplify it for you... You seem a bit confused. Suppose there's a situation where a guy's driving his car and accidentally rear ends another car at a red light. The guy that was 'rear-ended' gets out of his car and takes out his gun and starts shooting at the guy who 'rear-ended' him. In the process, he shoots and kills one of the passengers.

So, with your line of reasoning earlier in this thread, the guy that should catch as much criticism is the man that rear-ended the other individual? He should get life in prison because if he hadn't started the situation with the traffic infraction, this situation never would have occurred. Well, that's not how it works. Just because someone started the situation does not mean that they are the ones that will ultimately pay the most.

Bad analogy Murph, you're comparing an accident with a deliberate beheading attempt. The harshest punishments IMO should be dealt to whoever that scrub I never heard of is that tried to downright decapitate JR Smith and Carmelo for the cowardly bitch move of slapping and running away.

spreedom
12-18-2006, 10:44 AM
Tokey, let me see if I can simplify it for you... You seem a bit confused. Suppose there's a situation where a guy's driving his car and accidentally rear ends another car at a red light. The guy that was 'rear-ended' gets out of his car and takes out his gun and starts shooting at the guy who 'rear-ended' him. In the process, he shoots and kills one of the passengers.

So, with your line of reasoning earlier in this thread, the guy that should catch as much criticism is the man that rear-ended the other individual? He should get life in prison because if he hadn't started the situation with the traffic infraction, this situation never would have occurred. Well, that's not how it works. Just because someone started the situation does not mean that they are the ones that will ultimately pay the most.


That would be a pretty valid argument, and a really good analogy.. except the flagrant foul that started this entire mess was not committed accidentally... it was malicious, overly aggressive, and committed with very bad intentions. That Collins turd (btw, had anyone else heard of him before that travesty?) very intentionally tried to physically harm another player, and that little runt Nate Robinson was the guy that caused the situation to escalate to a ridiculous level.

I honestly think that Collins and Robinson deserve the harshest suspensions (as far as players are concerned) just like I feel that Ben Wallace should have gotten a much harsher suspension than he did after that Detroit fiasco.

TripleDipping
12-18-2006, 12:02 PM
Per Jim Rome radio show, NBA has announced suspensions.

Anthony: 15 games
Smith and Robinson: 10 games
Collins: 6 games
Jefferies: 4 games
Jerome James: 1 game

Plus both clubs will be fined.

I'm not surprised by the severity of the suspensions. While he's at it, Stern should suspend Isaiah Thomas too.

Nash13
12-18-2006, 12:04 PM
Anthony- 15
Smith- 10
Robinson- 10
Collins- 6
Jeffries- 4
Nene- 1
James- 1


If i'm Anthony's agent, i'm appealing to try to get it knocked down to 10. In general, they gave J.R. Smith the plunger. He's the one that got fouled, and was instigated by Robinson. No way he should get more than Collins.

spreedom
12-18-2006, 12:14 PM
JR Smith is, I believe.. pretty close to blameless for this entire incident.. he got in the guy's face that hammered him with an unneccessarily hard foul, which is something he should be allowed to do.. he was only defending himself.. it's when that punk ass Nate Robinson took a wild swing (at least one that I clearly remember) that he decided to defend himself, which I think should not be penalized. What was he supposed to do? Should he have just accepted the fact that that Collins turd tried to injure him? I think in this league, you should be allowed to stand your ground and show that you aren't willing to be bullied.

JR Smith's bad reputation is the reason he got such a suspension.. and that is absolutely brutal. If I was his agent, I'd contest his suspension completely.. he doesn't deserve a single game, in my opinion.

spreedom
12-18-2006, 12:17 PM
And, just an afterthought.... how come decent (albeit overpaid) guys like Jerome James and Nene are suspended for coming onto the court, clearly as peacemakers? That rule needs to be amended. It's stupid to have that as such a black-and-white policy.

Remind anyone else of Reggie Miller getting suspended for the Detroit scuffle? He left the bench to straightjacket Artest.. and was rewarded with a one-game suspension after he returned from his hand injury.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 12:18 PM
My analogy wasn't in the accidental portion of it.. it was in the portion explaining that just because someone else initiates an incident, that doesn't mean that he's responsible for everything else that occurs afterwards... And it doesn't mean that he has more responsibility for everything that occurs afterwards than anyone else.
Now, some of you need to practice your criticial thinking abilities...then get back with me.

Flacolaco
12-18-2006, 12:19 PM
15 games for Carmello!!! holy freaking shite

what a terrible error in judgement that's going to cost his team big in playoff seeding potentially. wow....

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 12:28 PM
15 games for Carmello!!! holy freaking shite

what a terrible error in judgement that's going to cost his team big in playoff seeding potentially. wow....

Yep...that ditch is getting closer and closer.

V2M
12-18-2006, 12:37 PM
Anthony suspended 15 games, no suspension for Thomas

By BRIAN MAHONEY, AP Basketball Writer
December 18, 2006

NEW YORK (AP) -- NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony was suspended for 15 games Monday and six other players were penalized as commissioner David Stern came down hard on both teams after the Nuggets and Knicks brawled at Madison Square Garden.

Nate Robinson and J.R. Smith each got 10 games, and four other players also were suspended. Stern fined each organization $500,000. But there was no separate penalty for Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, who had warned Anthony not to go into the lane before the mayhem started Saturday night.

"The NBA and its players represent a game of extraordinary skill, athleticism and grace, and, for good or bad, set an example for the entire basketball world, on and off the court," Stern said in a statement.

Mardy Collins, whose hard foul on Smith sparked the fighting, was suspended six games and Knicks teammate Jared Jeffries will miss four. Also, the Knicks' Jerome James and Denver's Nene were both penalized one game for leaving the bench area during the chaos.

Ten players were ejected after the fight, which started with 1:15 left in Denver's 123-100 victory. It was the NBA's scariest scene since the brawl between Pacers players and Pistons fans in Detroit two years ago.

There was speculation Thomas would be penalized for his comments to Anthony. Stern acknowledged hearing about it, but said he relied only on "definitive information" when handing out punishments.

Stern said the fines to the organizations are meant to show he is serious about cleaning up the game.

"It's a more general message that I'm going to start holding our teams accountable," Stern said.

Collins prevented Smith from an easy basket by grabbing him by the neck and taking him to the floor. Smith rose and immediately started jawing with Collins, and Robinson jumped in to pull Smith away. Anthony shoved Robinson away, and Robinson and Smith then tumbled into the front row while fighting.

Just as things appeared to be calming down, Anthony threw a hard punch that floored Collins, and New York's Jared Jeffries sprinted from the baseline toward halfcourt in an effort to get at Anthony, but was tackled by a Denver player.

By the time security had finally contained Smith, they were nearly at the opposite end of the court from where the fighting started.

"I was very disappointed," Stern said. "Clearly, we're not getting through or players in certain circumstances just don't want to be restrained. I would suggest that those players will not have long careers in the NBA."

Big Boy Laroux
12-18-2006, 12:38 PM
spreedom, i agree. that "leaving the bench" thing is kind of sad. if there's a melee, and you want to help break it up, you can't?

also, in looking at the replay, JR smith threw a punch, too. doesn't look like it landed, but he definitely threw one. maybe that's why he gets 10 games.

Caliente
12-18-2006, 12:45 PM
Millionaires behaving badly....... http://bestsmileys.com/signs9/21.gif

V2M
12-18-2006, 12:47 PM
NBA commissioner Stern's statement

December 18, 2006

NEW YORK (AP) -- NBA commissioner David Stern's statement on penalties issued Monday after the Denver Nuggets-New York Knicks brawl:

"The NBA and its players represent a game of extraordinary skill, athleticism and grace, and, for good or bad, set an example for the entire basketball world, on and off the court. On the positive side, there is our players passion for the game, engagement with our fans, commitment to their communities and respect for the history and tradition of the game. With respect to the negative, while we have worked diligently to eliminate fighting from our game, there are failures such as Saturday night at Madison Square Garden that demonstrate there is still more to be done.

"It is our obligation to take the strongest possible steps to avoid such failures in the future and to make a statement to all who follow the game of basketball that we understand our obligations and take them seriously. Accordingly, I am issuing the penalties listed below, and will take the occasion to set forth some of the considerations that have influenced my decision here and will continue to guide us as we seek to demonstrate our determination that the NBA and its players be viewed as standing for the best in sports.

"Among the considerations that influenced my decision:

-- "Teams will be held accountable for the actions of their employees, management and players alike.

-- "Players must take advantage of a break or pause in a heated situation to stop and restore order, instead of escalating the situation.

-- "Players must heed directions from referees and others who are trying to maintain order and not continue to put fans, referees and peacemakers in harm's way.

"The suspensions and fines are below:

"The Knicks and Nuggets organizations have each been fined $500,000

each as a result of the altercation.

"Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony has been suspended for 15 games.

"Knicks guard Nate Robinson has been suspended for 10 games.

"Nuggets guard J.R. Smith has been suspended for 10 games.

"Knicks guard Mardy Collins has been suspended for six games.

"Knicks forward Jared Jeffries has been suspended for four games.

"Knicks center Jerome James has been suspended for one game for leaving the bench during an on-court altercation.

"Nuggets forward Nene has been suspended one game for leaving the bench during an on-court altercation."

MavsFanFinley
12-18-2006, 12:53 PM
Seems fair to me. That's a hefty team fine for each team too. Ouch.

mkat
12-18-2006, 01:14 PM
isiah thomas is such a punk.

Drbio
12-18-2006, 01:14 PM
Thomas should be in the list.

dude1394
12-18-2006, 01:15 PM
I didn't see the Isiah punch. Someone give me a link.

MavKikiNYC
12-18-2006, 02:38 PM
This is clear-cut evidence that Stern favors and unfairly advantages the local team, which is located just down the street from NBA headquarters. Failure to fine Thomas means that this type of activity will continue. He can find an infinite supply of no-talent hacks like Mardy Collins to go in and "deliver a message".

This is the clearest sign yet that Stern has lost control of the league, and that he needs to be replaced.

With every passing month, the NBA is less and less appealing as an entertainment option.

dirno2000
12-18-2006, 02:42 PM
I can't imagine that a fine or suspension of Isiah would stand up if Stern has no proof that he ordered the hit.

WurzburgBorn
12-18-2006, 02:46 PM
I didn't see the Isiah punch. Someone give me a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respondeat_superior

nah-vit-ski
12-18-2006, 03:57 PM
I hope Melo doesn't get the appeal, he needs to get straigtened out big time

that being said...........

I would have been pissed as an opposing coach if Karl kept all his guys in just to run up the score. Isaiah is a bad boy, he's gonna do something about Karl's punk move.

Big Boy Laroux
12-18-2006, 04:03 PM
remember how much flak john cheney took for sending that guy in last year (or was it the year before) just to flagrant foul someone?

why wouldn't isiah catch the same?

interesting that there's the temple relation there (collins).

WurzburgBorn
12-18-2006, 04:11 PM
I would have been pissed as an opposing coach if Karl kept all his guys in just to run up the score. Isaiah is a bad boy, he's gonna do something about Karl's punk move.

I agree. Karl should know better than to endanger his players over a grudge.

dirt_dobber
12-18-2006, 04:20 PM
Mark Cuban's thoughts on the fines handed down ......(from his blogmaverick)

Discipline is easily one of the most difficult jobs in business. So I don't envy Commissioner Stern's responsibility in this matter. But I do have some thoughts:

I like that the commissioner fined the teams 500k, but I don't think it goes far enough. Not in terms of dollar amount, but in terms of assigning responsibility. I think the coaches, the President, GM and Owners should have been fined directly instead.

The responsibility of the culture of a team and organization, of any business, starts with the owner and is implemented by the team's President, GM and Coach or whoever is in the position to manage the workforce

No team is going to be perfect and problems will happen. The game is just too intense for skirmishs not to happen now and then. The players are just too competitive. They will happen on the court and may even happen off the court. Whether those skirmishes escalate, or whether the players are smart enough to walk away reflects how well coached and managed the team and organization is.

This isnt just about the NBA either. I havent been inside an NFL organization, but when I see teams have player after player arrested, that tells me there are management issues in that organization and league and Im sure it applies to other leagues as well.

Players respond to the environment they are placed in. Players respond to the expectations created for them by the organization. Regardless of sport

Coaching a team is not just about Xs & Os. Being a general manager isn't just about picking players. Being a Team President isnt just about profitability. Being an owner isnt just about entertaining customers or grandkids in your suite.

Basketball is a team game, as well as a team business. It has its own set of organizational dynamics. GMs should know whether their coach is in control of their team and what the culture for the team the coach is defining. GMs and Team Presidents should know whether their players are prepared and have the character to deal with the stresses on and off the court that the NBA brings and if not, should be taking the responsibility and steps required to put them in a position to succeed.. All should be involved in communicating with the players to define what the on and off the court expectations the organization has for them.

The interesting thing is that the players know exactly where the flashpoints are. They know who the players that will instigate or escalate problems. More importantly, and more troubling, they are left to have to decipher exactly what it means when either the team/coach/GM/Owner either knows and doesn't care, or is oblivious to what the players consider to be obvious.

Its an unfortunate conventional wisdom in the NBA that owners should "Let basketball people make basketball decisions". In today's NBA, every basketball decision affects the organization from top to bottom . In my experiences, many, many "basketball people" I have worked with in the past with the Mavs and around the league, dont know shit about organizational dynamics and management. I can tell you that working now with those who do and know its importance makes my job far, far easier.

In previous eras when the vast majority of players had 4 years of college and every games ' and players' highlights and lowlights werent broadcast milliseconds later on cable/satellite and on the internet, knowing basketball may have been enough. Its not any longer. A team's "Basketball People" and upper management has to be responsible for defining and managing the culture of the entire organization.

Its their responsible to determine where their problem areas are and address them before bad things happen. To know which players can possibly create problems and either get them the help they need, or get rid of them.
When something goes wrong, the responsibility is not just that of the players involved. Its the responsibility of the entire organization to recognize what caused it and if it can happen again. Isnt it interesting how so many people are there for the press conference when a player is signed, but most of those same people are no where to be found when something goes wrong ?

The perspective of many in management positions in the NBA is that they are immune and seperate from the actions of players. If the league were to assign public responsibility , along with fines to coaches, GMs and owners that would change very, very quickly and you would see management become more proactive , aware and involved with all elements of the cutlture of their organizations. That would be a great thing for the NBA and its fans.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 05:14 PM
remember how much flak john cheney took for sending that guy in last year (or was it the year before) just to flagrant foul someone?

why wouldn't isiah catch the same?

interesting that there's the temple relation there (collins).
Well, because at this point, it's just speculation that Thomas ordered the hard flagrant foul.

And honestly, upon further review, the flagrant foul doesn't look all that hard. Sure, he should have been ejected, but you see flagrant fouls significantly harder than that on a routine basis in the NBA.

Mavdog
12-18-2006, 05:18 PM
note karl quotes at the end
------------------------------------------------
Melo suspended for 15 games
By The Denver Post
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:12/18/2006 01:53:11 PM MST

NBA commissioner David Stern announced this morning that Nuggets forward and NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony will be suspended for 15 games for his actions in the brawl Saturday night between the Nuggets and New York Knicks.

Also, the Nuggets' guard J.R. Smith has been suspended for 10 games, and Nene has been suspended one game for leaving the bench during an on-court altercation.

The Knicks and Nuggets organizations have each been fined $500,000 each.

From the Knicks, Nate Robinson has been suspended 10 games and Mardy Collins will miss six games. Also, Knicks forward Jared Jeffries has been suspended for four games and center Jerome James has been suspended for one game for leaving the bench during an on-court altercation.

There was no separate penalty for Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, who had warned Anthony not to go into the lane before the mayhem started Saturday night.

The fight broke out after Collins put a hard foul on J.R. Smith, who was driving for a layup with 1:15 to play in Denver's 123-100 victory.

During the fracas, Anthony punched Collins in the face then backpedaled across the floor.

"The NBA and its players represent a game of extraordinary skill, athleticism and grace, and, for good or bad, set an example for the entire basketball world, on and off the court," Stern said in a statement this morning.

"Players must take advantage of a break or pause in a heated situation to stop and restore order, instead of escalating the situation," Stern said.

He added: "It is our obligation to take the strongest possible steps to avoid such failures in the future and to make a statement to all who follow the game of basketball that we understand our obligations and take them seriously."

Ten players were ejected after the fight. It was the NBA's scariest scene since the brawl between Pacers players and Pistons fans in Detroit two years ago.

There was speculation Thomas would be penalized for his comments to Anthony. Stern acknowledged hearing about it, but said he relied only on "definitive information" when handing out punishments.

The punishments were announced before both teams were to play tonight - New York at home against Utah; Denver at home against Washington.

Stern, taking the unusual step of announcing his ruling in a conference call, said the fines to the organizations are meant to show he is serious about cleaning up the game.

"It's a more general message that I'm going to start holding our teams accountable," Stern said.

Collins prevented Smith from an easy basket by grabbing him by the neck and taking him to the floor. Smith rose and immediately started jawing with Collins, and Robinson jumped in to pull Smith away. Anthony shoved Robinson away, and Robinson and Smith then tumbled into the front row while fighting.

Just as things appeared to be calming down, Anthony threw a hard punch that floored Collins, and New York's Jared Jeffries sprinted from the baseline toward halfcourt in an effort to get at Anthony, but was tackled by a Denver player.

By the time security had finally contained Smith, they were nearly at the opposite end of the court from where the fighting started.

"I was very disappointed," Stern said. "Clearly, we're not getting through or players in certain circumstances just don't want to be restrained. I would suggest that those players will not have long careers in the NBA." Stern also made it clear he was annoyed by comments from Thomas and the Knicks that the problems were caused by the Nuggets still having four starters on the floor late in a blowout. The commissioner said the only response is to say "nothing, or B, this is not something of which we can be proud or condone. That's not what we're about and that's not the example that we're setting." In Denver, Nuggets coach George Karl was irate with Thomas, who said today that Karl put his players in danger by leaving them on the floor too long. Karl accused Thomas of a "premediated" act, underscoring his disgust with the New York coach with expletives.

"It was directed by Isiah," he said during a shootaround. "I think his actions after the game were despicable. He made a bad situation worse. I'll swear on my children's life that I never thought about running up the score. I wanted to get a big win on the road." "My team has had trouble holding leads at the end of games," he added. "I didn't want the score to get under 10 points because if it would've gotten under 10 points it would've had a negative feeling on my team."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

MavKikiNYC
12-18-2006, 05:32 PM
I can't imagine that a fine or suspension of Isiah would stand up if Stern has no proof that he ordered the hit.

Dirno, there are closeup videotapes of Isiah talking to Anthony, telling him "I wouldn't go into the paint right now." ..... "It wouldn't be nice." ....."I'm just letting you know."

That constitutes a threat.

Then about 30 seconds later Collins delivers the foul.

For Stern to pretend there isn't clear evidence is willful ignorance.

Tokey41
12-18-2006, 05:34 PM
Tokey, let me see if I can simplify it for you... You seem a bit confused. Suppose there's a situation where a guy's driving his car and accidentally rear ends another car at a red light. The guy that was 'rear-ended' gets out of his car and takes out his gun and starts shooting at the guy who 'rear-ended' him. In the process, he shoots and kills one of the passengers.

So, with your line of reasoning earlier in this thread, the guy that should catch as much criticism is the man that rear-ended the other individual? He should get life in prison because if he hadn't started the situation with the traffic infraction, this situation never would have occurred. Well, that's not how it works. Just because someone started the situation does not mean that they are the ones that will ultimately pay the most.

That truly is a terrible analogy. You want to talk about critical thinking here's something to ponder: with every action theres a consequence. Collins action caused J.R to get mad and then that dispute led to the brawl. It was bone headed of Collins to get that flustered, it was even more bone headed of Nate to justify it by ripping on the Nuggets for 'padding' the score (completely hypocritical as well), and it was tremendously bone headed for Anthony to even get involved. I never once said he didn't deserve the criticism did I? I'm just saying... "critically speaking" he isn't the one who lost his temper first, just the one who portrayed the most irresponsible behaviour.

And those suspensions seem fair.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 05:38 PM
Perhaps it is a terrible analogy, but only because the target audience is incapable of thinking on anything more than a third grade level. Tokey, next time I'll dumb it down for you a bit.

mary
12-18-2006, 05:42 PM
If the brawl had never happened, I doubt Collins would've received more than a game suspension - quite honestly it just seems like your garden variety flagrant 2. Bell's hit on Kobe in the playoffs was much more vicious - and he got 1 game. I didn't see Collins throw any punches in the actual fight, so his punishment seems a bit steep to me.

I also thought Robinson's and Anthony's suspensions should've been closer together.

I wasn't consulted.

Murphy3
12-18-2006, 05:46 PM
Perhaps you should have been.... And I agree about the flagrant foul... nothing too out of the norm as far as flagrant 2's go.

dirno2000
12-18-2006, 05:51 PM
Dirno, there are closeup videotapes of Isiah talking to Anthony, telling him "I wouldn't go into the paint right now." ..... "It wouldn't be nice." ....."I'm just letting you know."

That constitutes a threat.

Then about 30 seconds later Collins delivers the foul.

For Stern to pretend there isn't clear evidence is willful ignorance.

I saw the video but there's no sound right? We can be reasonable sure what he said, but I question weather that would hold up before an arbitrator.

I think the commissioner is hesitant to dole out any punishment that could be overturned lest he look a little less powerful.

I guess I don’t understand why he wouldn’t fine or suspend Isiah if he could.

WurzburgBorn
12-18-2006, 06:00 PM
Game 15 of Carmelo's suspension is Denver vs. Cleveland, Melo vs. Lebron, on ESPN, so we'll see if the 15 game suspension actually holds up.

nashtymavsfan13
12-18-2006, 07:25 PM
We get to play the Nuggs without JR and Melo :D

spreedom
12-18-2006, 07:45 PM
My analogy wasn't in the accidental portion of it.. it was in the portion explaining that just because someone else initiates an incident, that doesn't mean that he's responsible for everything else that occurs afterwards... And it doesn't mean that he has more responsibility for everything that occurs afterwards than anyone else.
Now, some of you need to practice your criticial thinking abilities...then get back with me.


What is most important (and falls into that same "practice your critical thinking abilities, then get back to me" category) is whether or not an incident was intentionally initiated... that's how your analogy is pretty incomplete. You didn't apply the same set of circumstances to a different event. You chose to create your own. It would hold a lot more water if it was, say, a Stackhouse-to-Joe Johnson kind of foul that started this ridiculous brawl.

MavKikiNYC
12-18-2006, 07:55 PM
I saw the video but there's no sound right? We can be reasonable sure what he said, but I question weather that would hold up before an arbitrator.

I think the commissioner is hesitant to dole out any punishment that could be overturned lest he look a little less powerful.

I guess I don’t understand why he wouldn’t fine or suspend Isiah if he could.
1) Anthony gave an account of what Thomas said, and that pretty much exactly matches what Thomas appeared to be saying.

2) I suppose a lip-reader could be hired to verify what was said, but I can see what he's saying without being a lip-reader.

3) I believe I read that there was an audio tape of the game, that had been time-stamp matched to the videos, that provide audio to the threat Thomas made.

4) This isn't the first time that there has been a discrepancy between what people on the sideline heard Thomas say during a confrontation/incident, and what Thomas admits to saying. He threatened Bruce Bowen back in that farce he invented about Bowen being a dirty player, and then softened and/or denied what he'd own up to saying.

5) I think Stern is hesitant (frightened) to take any action that would further damage the NYKs brand, and by extension the NBA's. What Stern's disciplinary decision showed was that it pays to be the aggressor. The NYKs' punishments/suspensions were nowhere near severe enough, and should have been much more severe than what the Nuggets received, with the exception of Anthony.

But for Stern not to suspend Thomas for a minimum of 10 games is nothing but farce. Stern will fine Cuban to hell and back, but he doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger on one of the NBA's own.

NBA = Fakery.

I went to opening night at the Garden this year (free tickets) and haven't been back. I absolutely will not spend money on that mess, and really don't envision going back this year.

What's more, I've watched fewer games on television this year than any year in the last 10. It just doesn't seem credible to me any more. From reports around the league about empty arenas, I'm not the only former follower of the NBA to experience these feelings.

Stern has a growing problem on his hands, and it's only going to get worse if he doesn't take action to remove charlatans like Isiah Thomas from positions of decision-making power.

No más, Diego. No más.

TheBlueVan
12-18-2006, 08:20 PM
isaiah thomas is the worst thing to happen to the nba in a long time. why he has a job, i dont know

TripleDipping
12-18-2006, 09:15 PM
Nuggets not missing Melo yet.... Denver leading Washington 65-43 halftime.

V2M
12-18-2006, 09:40 PM
Nuggets not missing Melo yet.... Denver leading Washington 65-43 halftime.

Even better... NYK beat UTA without Nate/Jeffries/James/Collins

Flacolaco
12-18-2006, 09:52 PM
thank you knicks.

lol overtime to get 97 points....fun

dude1394
12-19-2006, 12:10 AM
wow george karl called out a coach like I've never heard.

Mavskiki's gotta love it.

mary
12-19-2006, 10:23 AM
Just for example, ban naive
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist
Article Last Updated: 12/18/2006 11:56:49 PM MST

Of all the tattoos engraved on the body of Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony, disgraced and suspended 15 games by the NBA for fighting, there's one that speaks from the place where his persecuted heart is now: "Me against the world."

Basketball is a game of the street, as raw as a Spalding peeled of its orange skin from constant pounding on the playground blacktop.

No matter how many millions of endorsement dollars he earns or how many steps he takes on red carpets at Hollywood premieres, Anthony is proud he came up from the mean streets of Baltimore.

There is a fight going on here, in NBA arenas across America, with the blows far more wicked than the fist Anthony threw Saturday night during the Grapple in the Apple, when Melo jumped in the middle of an ugly melee between New York and Denver and escalated the violence by unleashing a roundhouse right at the head of Knicks reserve Mardy Collins.

On Monday, Melo got sucker-punched with a 15-game suspension by NBA commissioner David Stern.

Please, don't misunderstand my point. What Anthony did, letting his testosterone get the best of him, was puffed-up selfish and flat-out stupid, leaving teammates in the lurch after a display of machismo that wound up hurting only the Nuggets. Has Melo never heard of Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich? One dumb punch can ruin two lives.

"It was wrong. W-R-O-N-G," said Nuggets vice president of basketball operations Mark Warkentien, describing Melo as a good dude who did something inexcusably bad. "Wrong should not only be in all capital letters, but underlined."

But in banning Anthony for what amounts to 30 days on the NBA calendar, it would be naive to think the league was only policing the game. Stern made an example of Melo for a Wonder Bread clientele that is uncomfortable when the soundtrack of basketball contains too much Jay-Z and not enough REO Speedwagon.

"That's a lot of bread," Celtics star Paul Pierce told reporters in Boston, as he was shocked at the severity of a penalty that will cost Anthony in excess of $750,000 in paychecks. "We might not see that man now until the All-Star Game. Fifteen games is what, a month? That's the season right there for that team, with one punch."

Their 117-108 win against Washington in the first game of Anthony's suspension notwithstanding, the Nuggets are now no shoo-in to make the playoffs in the rugged Western Conference. That's why the worst sin any athlete can commit is to get himself tossed from competition.

Unable to erase the tattoos or turn down the volume on the hip hop, Stern has decided to scrub his league clean of brawling.

"There are other sports that have fighting baked into them and others that are considerably more violent, but we have set up the goal of eliminating fighting from our game," Stern said.

Sanitizing the grit of the street from the NBA? Stern has a better chance of receiving an invitation to Anthony's wedding.

"Stern can't stop no man from fighting. A man is entitled to do whatever he wants to do. The only thing (Stern) can do is take money from him," said Nuggets forward Reggie Evans, who put on Anthony's No. 15 jersey in front of the home crowd at the conclusion of the game against the Wizards. "If Stern wants to stop the violence, he should go to the 'hood and talk to some kids."

The argot of the NBA is smack talk. Or perhaps you did not hear the bleep-filled tirade unleashed by Nuggets coach George Karl, convinced the instigator of the melee was Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, reported to have ordered a hard foul by Collins on Denver guard J.R. Smith as retribution for the visitors running up the score at Madison Square Garden.

"He's a jerk," Karl began, then went on to diss Thomas in terms that could turn a blue-streak-cursing sailor red with shame.

Did it ever occur to Karl that perhaps the emotional immaturity of his star player and his team starts at the top? A year ago, this same Denver team embarrassed itself when forward Kenyon Martin created such a scene in the playoffs he was suspended for insubordination. Who runs this asylum?

On his first day of house arrest by the NBA, Anthony sat in his multimillion-dollar mansion, according to the player's agent. This suspension won't kill Anthony. One of these years, he will stand on the steps of the Hall of Fame and this will all seem funny.

But what hurt the worst from Melo's punch was the collateral damage.

Like it or not, the Nuggets are the new bad boys of the NBA.

Staff writer Mark Kiszla can be reached at 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com.

jthig32
12-19-2006, 10:26 AM
That would be Reggie Evans, a.k.a. Nut Grabber, that gave that delightfully insightful quote. How nice.

longhorn
12-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Anthony should have gotten 20 games.

That is 5 extra for running backwards like a little girl in need of a diaper after throwing the punch.

Maybe thats how it is done in the 'hood'.....guess I will have to ask Reggie Evans.

MavKikiNYC
12-19-2006, 11:44 AM
"Stern can't stop no man from fighting. A man is entitled to do whatever he wants to do. The only thing (Stern) can do is take money from him," said Nuggets forward Reggie Evans, who put on Anthony's No. 15 jersey in front of the home crowd at the conclusion of the game against the Wizards. "If Stern wants to stop the violence, he should go to the 'hood and talk to some kids."

Stern would've made a much louder statement, with a much bigger impact if he could've mustered the courage to suspend Thomas without pay for at least 10 games.

He just addressed a symptom.

But I care less and less every day.

Murphy3
12-19-2006, 11:56 AM
What is most important (and falls into that same "practice your critical thinking abilities, then get back to me" category) is whether or not an incident was intentionally initiated... that's how your analogy is pretty incomplete. You didn't apply the same set of circumstances to a different event. You chose to create your own. It would hold a lot more water if it was, say, a Stackhouse-to-Joe Johnson kind of foul that started this ridiculous brawl.
You're still struggling...

bernardos70
12-19-2006, 12:21 PM
My analogy wasn't in the accidental portion of it.. it was in the portion explaining that just because someone else initiates an incident, that doesn't mean that he's responsible for everything else that occurs afterwards... And it doesn't mean that he has more responsibility for everything that occurs afterwards than anyone else.
Now, some of you need to practice your criticial thinking abilities...then get back with me.

I can see your point, but as the catalysts of the situation the player who fouled (whoever the hell he is, I forgot his name at this point) should have received a harsher punishment than most, maybe just as much as Carmelo Anthony. One could argue that the game would have finished peacefully if he didn't foul him that hard, and that's where the accidental part of your analogy doesn't fit. There was a very real chance the situation would have escalated like it did when you foul someone that hard at the end of such a blowout, and I can't help but imagine the player who fouled knew this.

As for everything that happened afterwards, yeah, each individual is responsible for their own actions, each one chose to get in on the brawl on their own, no one forced them. They should be punished accordingly, I agree with you on that. Carmelo made the whole situation worse, and basically created a secondary brawl when the original one was started, and since he did that, he should be punished just as harshly as he was.

spreedom
12-19-2006, 12:44 PM
You're still struggling...


Actually, that would be you.

Stranger
12-19-2006, 01:35 PM
"It was directed by Isiah," [Karl] said during a shootaround. "I think his actions after the game were despicable. He made a bad situation worse. I'll swear on my children's life that I never thought about running up the score. I wanted to get a big win on the road."

In a related story, Boise State guard Coby Karl died of a sudden heart-attack during a game against the University of Idaho.