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View Full Version : One last Iverson Thread: Iverson to Denver


DubOverdose
12-19-2006, 02:43 PM
Iverson to Denver for Andre Miller, Joe Smith, 2 2007 first round picks. And there it is. Its up on ESPN, should be a done deal by then end of the night. One or two more guys from Philly might go to Denver, but they'll be throw ins to make the salaries work.

Flacolaco
12-19-2006, 02:46 PM
Iverson and Mello sittin in a tree
.
.
.
.
(punching people like thugs)

nashtymavsfan13
12-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Is it going to be a three team deal, or are the Mavs not involved at all?

Flacolaco
12-19-2006, 02:52 PM
The trade, pending league approval, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags.

2 first rounders. ouchy

Feb 24th 2007, Denver @ Dallas

(new years eve @ Denver, but that's w/o Anthony)

some-dude
12-19-2006, 02:53 PM
ESPN -
According to NBA front-office sources, the Denver Nuggets have reached an agreement in principle with the Philadelphia 76ers to acquire Allen Iverson.

The trade, pending league approval, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two.

The deal is expected to be finalized on Tuesday.

Iverson has been on the block since December 8th when Sixers' owner publicly stated that the club would trade Iverson.

some-dude
12-19-2006, 02:54 PM
didnt see thread othere thread...feel free to lock.

DubOverdose
12-19-2006, 02:58 PM
Just a two team deal. I honestly don't know how I feel about this trade. The Nuggets HAD to do something in hopes of being a true contender. However, Melo and AI both have short tempers and need a lot of shots. I don't know how effective the two of them will be together. That being said, I like the deal for Philly more than I thought. They will have 3 first round picks this next draft, and its almost promised to be an extremely deep draft. They should tank the rest of this season with their roster, because its a terrible team. They will have a good shot at getting Oden, then they will have two picks later on in the draft where they should be able to pick up some solid contributors or pick up two gamles and hope one of them pans out. If I were the Sixers, I'd consider trying to find a way to get some more picks and field a new team next season by drafting at every position.

Stranger
12-19-2006, 02:59 PM
I think one of those first rounders is our 2007 pick. It went to Golden State in Dampier trade, then to Denver in the Tskitishvilli trade.

AxdemxO
12-19-2006, 03:01 PM
Denver just became a championship contender. You cna hate Melo and Iverson but the combo of them two is crazy. Then having Camby in the middle and JR at sg and other good supporting players...this wil be crazy.

Stranger
12-19-2006, 03:04 PM
Denver now has three shoot first guys in starting lineup, and a lot of volatile personalities. They will also miss Miller, who was helping Melo score all those points (9 assists per game). But if everything clicks, watch out.

Philly didn't get equal value, but you never do when you trade a guy like Iverson. The Denver and Dallas picks will help them fill out their roster, and Miller is a solid point guard. The real bonus is they will probably have such a poor record without Iverson that they'll have a good shot at Greg Oden.

kg_veteran
12-19-2006, 03:21 PM
I'm surprised that Philly wanted Andre Miller, but this is a good deal for Philly (or as good as they could reasonably expect to do).

Denver just got quite a bit better, but I think it will be interesting to watch Iverson adapt to the team and then have to adapt again when Anthony comes back.

Tokey41
12-19-2006, 03:28 PM
Someones going to bitch about not getting the ball enough, and it won't be Melo or AI... it will be J.R Smith. Pretty good athletic team, we'll see how they do when they are at full strength... which won't be for a while.

Murphy3
12-19-2006, 03:38 PM
I don't think Denver did much to improve their title hopes...

rakesh.s
12-19-2006, 03:39 PM
good luck to the shot distribution in denver..

bigdaddy
12-19-2006, 03:44 PM
I don't think Denver did much to improve their title hopes...

Yeah adding one of the best players in the league who can give up 30, 3 and 7 a night...hardly an improvement over andre miller

LMAO

kg_veteran
12-19-2006, 03:46 PM
Yeah adding one of the best players in the league who can give up 30, 3 and 7 a night...hardly an improvement over andre miller

LMAO

That's not what he said.

Read.

bigdaddy
12-19-2006, 03:49 PM
i read it fine

he said denver didn't do much to improve their title hopes which is pure garbage

Murphy3
12-19-2006, 03:52 PM
Yeah adding one of the best players in the league who can give up 30, 3 and 7 a night...hardly an improvement over andre miller

LMAO
Anyone smarter than the crap that comes out of docbio's ass knows that there's more to putting together a winning team than throwing together talent.

Perhaps they're more likely to make it into the playoffs, but I don't see this team as a contender.. no moreso than they were before. They will implode somewhere along the way. They have too many players on the team that are all about their numbers and not about the team.

Does anyone remember when the Mavs added Jamison and Walker? Well, they added more scoring, rebounding and even a guy that could pass a little. Did it help the team in any capacity? No, the team was significantly worse the next year. Throwing in talent does not make the team a winner. It makes it more talented.

Flacolaco
12-19-2006, 03:53 PM
see the US Olympic team

fluid.forty.one
12-19-2006, 03:58 PM
bigdaddy it's amazing how you continue to prove that you're a huge idiot

kg_veteran
12-19-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't see the Nuggets as having any realistic title hopes. They don't defend (20th in the league in defensive efficiency). They're basically just a scoring outfit, and they're not as efficient at it as other scoring outfits like the Suns and Jazz.

Drbio
12-19-2006, 04:13 PM
I love it when murph talks dirty.

purplefrog
12-19-2006, 04:47 PM
Philly wins the in the long run, and Denver gets a chance to be something special for a year or two. I don't like the combination of AI, Melo and JR. It is too volatile and self-serving. The Nuggets will miss Andre Miller in a big way. It will be fun to watch the 5'5" Boykins sub for the <6' AI though. Talk about small ball.

mavsfan1000
12-19-2006, 05:05 PM
Oh yeah AI and Boykins in the game at the same time will be fun to watch.

AxdemxO
12-19-2006, 05:23 PM
IMO Denver has a title shot. The Suns dont defend and they have a title shot, and I think Denver will run so may people out the building it will be ridiculas. They wont focus much on D they will kill teams on offense. Who do you guard and how??

V2M
12-19-2006, 05:31 PM
Camby
Najera (or Nene)
Melo
JR
AI
6th Man: Boykin

That's a scary lineup on paper... I guess we'll find out how it'll pan out soon. My guess, they'll probably lose in the 2nd round this year and could be quite dangerous next year, especially if K-Mart comes back healthy!

In other related news, "Garnett was found crying inconsolably near his locker...".

Tokey41
12-19-2006, 06:14 PM
Well this is just what we need... another good team in the west. Title "contender" or not, they will be harder to beat than before and thats reason enough to be pissed off. Oh yeah, and the East still sucks.

... and i'm also pissed about us getting Camby being completely false (you see that stat line yesterday?)

birdsanctuary
12-19-2006, 06:14 PM
This is a stunning trade for philly! Miller is a top 6 point guard and 2 first rounders. Mr. King I tip my hat to you on this one, now don't screw it up on draft day...

Questions:
1. How much did the fight in MSG effect Denver's leverage?
2. Did Denver mortgage their future by dealing away those two picks and Miller (Smith was trade fodder)?
3. Does Denver have enough to join the western elite?

birdsanctuary
12-19-2006, 06:19 PM
I think there will be too many egos for George Karl to manage...

I'm not optimistic about Denver, but you have to at least give them street credibility.

ty
12-19-2006, 06:30 PM
Next up for d-mavs.com, 50 threads about the possibility of KG coming to Dallas

EricaLubarsky
12-19-2006, 07:55 PM
Denver is better on paper. A lot of their success will depend on two things 1) if Iverson and Anthony can continue to get along. They luckily only have a few games together before the playoffs to annoy each other. and 2) If Anthony can adjust to be without the ball on offense. We know how dominant in the finals Iverson and Stackhouse were...wait

Of course there are other factors-- Camby's health, that ball of joy they have in the lockerroom named Kenyon, and the coach of the year who has seemingly infinite credibility with malcontents.

MavsX
12-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Next up for d-mavs.com, 50 threads about the possibility of KG coming to Dallas

Jackpot.

Thespiralgoeson
12-19-2006, 09:09 PM
Denver is better on paper. A lot of their success will depend on two things 1) if Iverson and Anthony can continue to get along. They luckily only have a few games together before the playoffs to annoy each other. and 2) If Anthony can adjust to be without the ball on offense. We know how dominant in the finals Iverson and Stackhouse were...wait


Uh Erica, maybe you didn't notice, but Carmelo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stack

This f*cking sucks.

rabbitproof
12-19-2006, 09:47 PM
In the offseason, we were looking at:

Favorites: Dallas, PHX, SA

Dark Horse/2nd Tier/Select Your Term: Houston, Denver, LA Clips

Now...

Favorites: Dallas, PHX, SA

Dark Horses: Houston, LA Clips, Utah, LA Lakers

I'd say Denver is somewhere between the two grids. Potentially in a favorite category if Melo and AI mesh incredibly well.

dirno2000
12-19-2006, 10:04 PM
Hollinger's take:

Just when you thought the West couldn't get any tougher, here comes another contender.

In one fell swoop on Tuesday, the Denver Nuggets went from a nice team that had little chance of making it past the first round to a legitimate threat to win the whole enchilada.

Yes, I said they can win it all. Everything.

As in, hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy in June, having a Coors-soaked parade under the shadow of the Rockies, and being linked to conspiracy theories all summer as the result of a few strange calls by Bennett Salvatore.

As you might have guessed, I think this trade was an absolute home run for the Nuggets, one that elevates them into the grouping with the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks when we discuss the league's elite. (Sorry Utah fans, I'm not quite ready to go there yet. Gimme another month and I'll take it under advisement.)

I'm still amazed that the price wasn't higher, and I sure hope for the Clippers' sake that Shaun Livingston -- whom they deemed untouchable -- turns out to be a big star, because otherwise they're going to be wiping egg off their faces for a long time.

Yes, Iverson can be a pain in the butt. For one thing, he's not big on the whole idea of practice. Plus, he's likely to miss some time with injuries, and he's already 31. Just to make sure we're covering all the negatives, the trade also cost the Nuggets their best (some would say "only") passer in Andre Miller, subtracted frontcourt depth with the loss of Joe Smith, and forces two of the game's most tunnel-visioned scorers to share a single leather basketball.

In spite of that, I love it. Here's why:

The system fits. Putting Iverson with Anthony works a lot better than, say, pairing Stephon Marbury with Steve Francis, because this duo scores in very different ways.

Iverson wants the ball at the beginning of the play so he can go off the dribble and create; 'Melo is end-of-the-play guy interested in finishing. The only change required is that Iverson will have to pass a bit more and shoot a bit less, but we're not talking about radical surgery for a guy who's averaged better than seven assists per game the last three seasons.

And beyond that, Denver doesn't need to change a thing. The Nuggets already are the league's fastest-paced team, so we won't see the scenes in Philly with Iverson jetting out on the break while Chris Webber gamely tries to drag his leg down the court.

Additionally, the Nuggets already had two players who shared traits with Iverson: a lead guard with a shaky outside shot (Miller), and a mini-Iverson (Earl Boykins, coming off the bench). As a result, Iverson will fit into George Karl's system as seamlessly as any player in the league could, especially since he can spend his first 13 or 14 games gunning at will before Anthony comes back from suspension.

And unlike some coaches, Karl doesn't seem to have a big problem working with players who are perceived as difficult. He almost seems to relish it, in fact, as Gary Payton can attest.

C'mon, would you rather see Earl Boykins take those shots? People think that the Nugget who will miss out on the most shots will be Anthony, but this isn't true. Really, the guy who's going to lose out is Boykins, who will see a precipitous drop in playing time once the suspensions end because Iverson can do his superhuman 46-minute routine on so many nights.

This is the same Boykins who is shooting 37.0 percent from the floor, has upset teammates with his poor shot selection, is on the trading block and is spending tonight trying to figure out why he's still a Nugget.

Shouldn't be a tough act to follow for the Answer. Meanwhile, having those shots transferred to Iverson's ledger should produce an uptick in baskets and a huge jump in free-throw attempts.

Look at last year's Sixers. If you want to know how these guys can share the ball, consider the 2005-06 76ers.

Like this year's Nuggets, that team had Iverson ... except it had about 1/63rd of the surrounding talent. Two players accounted for the vast chunk of the Sixers' possessions -- Iverson and Chris Webber. Webber's Usage Rate (the rate of possessions used) wasn't much different from Carmelo Anthony's a year ago, so think of it as Iverson playing with a one-legged version of Anthony.

Despite that, and the paucity of teammates who could score (for a quick refresher, Kevin Ollie played more than 1,000 minutes; John Salmons played more than 2,000; and Webber, the No.2 option, had a 48.2 True Shooting Percentage), the Sixers were an above-average offensive team a year ago, ranking 13th in the NBA in Offensive Efficiency.

Now replace Webber with Carmelo Anthony. Replace Samuel Dalembert with Marcus Camby, Kevin Ollie with Boykins, Kyle Korver with J.R. Smith, and Steven Hunter with Nene. Don't you think it's possible that the Nuggets will be just a wee bit better off?

In fact, the Nuggets already are an excellent offensive team -- they rank sixth in Offensive Efficiency through Monday's games, and are within 1.1 points of second place. With the addition of Iverson, it says here that from the end of 'Melo's suspension to the end of the season, only Phoenix will be better offensively.

The bigs don't need the rock. This is an underrated aspect of the Iverson deal, but an important one.

Look at the types of big guys the Nuggets have. There's Marcus Camby, who doesn't need to have any plays called for him and gets all his points on transition, offensive boards and kick-out jumpers. There's Eduardo Najera, who scores on hustle plays, sets bone-jarring screens and otherwise stays out of the way.

And then there's Reggie Evans. I don't think there could be a more perfect fit than putting Evans on a team with Iverson and Anthony. All those two guys want to do is shoot it, and all Evans wants to do is gather the misses.

Evans ranks second in the NBA in Offensive Rebound Rate behind Indiana's Jeff Foster, grabbing an amazing 16.4 percent of the misses when he's on the court. Thus, his greatest skill is perfectly placed to mitigate Iverson's worst trait -- his tendency to keep letting it rip on a 7-for-24 night.

The 'Sheed factor. Remember when Rasheed Wallace got traded from Portland to Atlanta to Detroit? (Yes, he was a Hawk. Even played a game for them. Both teams played hard.) Remember how he bent over backwards to show his new teammates that his reputation was wrong and he could be a great team player? And remember how he was the missing link that took Detroit from a solid-but-unspectacular playoff team to NBA Champions?

This is Iverson right now. For the first time in years he has something to prove and capable teammates to prove it with. He knows his legacy is at stake, too. It's one thing if you can't coexist with Jerry Stackhouse or Keith Van Horn -- people will forgive that. But if he can't make it work with Anthony, that's what will go down in the history books: "Great individual player. Could win only if other four guys didn't want or need the ball."

As a result of that, and the fact that Iverson has a legitimate shot at a ring for the first time in years, I have a feeling we're in for some of his best basketball. None of this will change the fact that he's 31, that he might get hurt, or that his jumper is streaky at best. But I'd rather take my chances on a focused, motivated, hell-bent-to-prove-them-wrong Iverson than on the dejected, sullen guy who was getting his brains beat in every night as a Sixer.

So overall, it's a fantastic deal for the Nuggets. One of the things Michael Lewis points out in the book "Moneyball" is that midseason trades are a tremendous opportunity, because they give teams a chance to make deals they never could get away with in the offseason.

In my view, this was that kind of trade. The Nuggets basically just got Iverson for Andre Miller. Are you kidding me? Could any team possibly have made that deal over the summer, or anything close to it? Of course not.

But they pulled it off, and because of it they have a two-year window to bring the city its first NBA championship.

WayOutWest
12-19-2006, 10:06 PM
Thanks Philly, at least now the Shaq trade is no longer the worst in history. Who's Andre Miller going to pass too other than Igs? Bad wheels Webber? Head and hands of stone Dalembert? Those draft picks from Denver are going to be in the mid to high 20's, unless you're Jerry West, you're not going to find much there.

Now if Billy King can figure out a way to get rid of the Eagles and leave a major sports market like Philly without a professional football team.....hmmm......

rmacomic
12-19-2006, 10:19 PM
Mark the calender I actually agree with murph on something. Well two things. One I'm not very funny, and two this does not make Denver a title contender. Ai can't make the playoffs in the east (and you can argue that he had no support, I personaly would love to see Korver in a mavs uni), so why the hell is he gonna win it all in the west, because of Melo, the guy is a choke job.

Drbio
12-19-2006, 10:20 PM
The Shaq trade was by far the biggest monumental eff up in NBA history. This doesn't even rate a blip compred to that. The fLakers would have reeled off several championships has the rapist not pissed and whined his way to teamwide destruction. Philly wouldn't have won a championship ever during AI's career. He might however win one in Denver.

LAL fans try too hard to convince themselves that they didn't screw the pooch.

WayOutWest
12-19-2006, 10:34 PM
The Shaq trade was by far the biggest monumental eff up in NBA history. This doesn't even rate a blip compred to that. The fLakers would have reeled off several championships has the rapist not pissed and whined his way to teamwide destruction. Philly wouldn't have won a championship ever during AI's career. He might however win one in Denver.

LAL fans try too hard to convince themselves that they didn't screw the pooch.

No doubt Kupkake screwed the pooch to death but at least the Lakers got Lamar in return. What did Philly get? They got screwed. The only way the Lakers were going to have a shot at another title with Shaq would be if they traded Kobe, I for one am glad they didn't. Despite Shaq getting his shot to prove he can carry a team to a title without Kobe, he still got out of shape and had to be threatened by Riley in order to give an effort. Shaq came up short without Wade and he would have come up short without Kobe. If it wasn't for Wade and the HISTORIC collapse by the Mavs, Shaq would be holding up a box of Krispy Kreme's instead of a title on Wade's coattails. Did I mention the HISTORIC collapse by the Mavs helping Shaq?

Drbio
12-19-2006, 10:44 PM
*yawn*

A fLakers fan trying to convince Mavs fans that the Shaq trade wasn't the worst trade in NBA history. Pretty pathetic.

nashtymavsfan13
12-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Rocky relationship

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
December 19, 2006


More on Iverson trade Kerr: Win-win situation | Fantasy fallout

So here comes the twisted reality greeting Allen Iverson's arrival in Denver, an immediate and inevitable elevation of his public stature from a rebellious perpetual adolescent to thirtysomething sage and imparter of wisdom. Suddenly, he will be cast as the voice of been-there, done-that reason for the reeling Carmelo Anthony.

"A.I. will love it there for the next 14 games," one Eastern Conference official laughed on Tuesday afternoon.

Iverson arrives with the leverage and latitude to cut into Anthony's powerbase in Denver. The situation promises to be equal parts high drama and high comedy in the Rockies, a fascinating chemistry experiment complicated with an unmistakable twist: Because of the NBA's suspensions, it won't be Allen Iverson who must learn to fit in with Anthony, but Anthony with Iverson.

For the next 14 games, it will be Iverson controlling the ball and the shots. He'll be commanding the ooohs and ahhhs and ovations in Denver. Iverson will come to town on a mission, play with peerless purpose and temporarily turn these Nuggets into his own. The NBA's No. 2 scorer will quickly overtake Anthony to be No. 1.

And when 'Melo finally returns, everyone will be asking this unavoidable question: Whose team is this?

For the desperate straits that the Denver Nuggets found themselves in this week, it is still startling how little they had to give up for Iverson. Joe Smith was a contract dump, Andre Miller has steadily regressed and the two first-round draft picks will probably be somewhere in the 20s. No Nene Hilario, no Marcus Camby, no J.R. Smith had to leave town. It's a coup that Denver had to sacrifice not only nothing of its core but also nothing of its future.

With the way Philadelphia 76ers general manager Billy King has mismanaged his team into irrelevance, the way he banished Iverson and bottomed out his leverage, you could see a dismal deal coming for Philadelphia. Around the league, teams were unwilling to trade their starry young prospects for Iverson. Beyond that, King still couldn't bring back a major expiring contract. Bottom line: To trade Iverson and get so little is a complete embarrassment for the 76ers. It might be the ultimate unraveling of the King regime.

As it turned out, perhaps Larry Brown's consultant's role on the trade with the Sixers was his way of paying back Nuggets coach George Karl for the disaster last Saturday night borne out of Karl trying to avenge Brown's firing by Isiah Thomas. Maybe now Brown can score himself a consultant's job in Denver, advising his North Carolina Tar Heel buddy on coaching Iverson.

To start, Iverson will be on his best behavior. Only he has never shown staying power in his life. Why would it start at 31 years old? Kenyon Martin never wanted to practice with the Nuggets (nor the Nets, to tell the truth) and that's something that was a source of trouble between him and his coach. By next season, if Martin returns, those two game-night warriors will be faking it together through practice, leaving Anthony and Smith to ask each other "So why are we bothering again?"

Karl has made compromises with his coaching style in Denver, running freer and looser with discipline, with his style, and there could be some short-term benefits with Iverson. Sooner than later, there will be issues on the floor. Anthony returns Jan. 20 at Houston, and problems could start as soon as he takes the floor with Iverson that night. That's when everyone will be asking the nagging question that will keep chasing the Nuggets: "Whose team is this?"

In this age, the answer is no longer, "ours," and that assuredly will never be it in Denver. The dynamic of Carmelo Anthony and the Nuggets changed dramatically on Saturday night in New York. Once again, Anthony showed himself to be a flawed franchise player with that sucker punch, a grave mistake compounded with the way he swung and started running back on defense in a sight never seen in his basketball career.

It will stay with the public and the players, and it's created a vacuum for A.I. to come to Denver and make the Nuggets his own. Here comes Iverson with all that been-there, done-that wisdom for Anthony, a twisted reality that will find this suddenly anointed thirtysomething sage thrilled to play the part in public.

No, 'Melo isn't going to like fit into Iverson's game. This was Carmelo Anthony's ball, his franchise, until he gave Iverson the opening to come take it all away.

nashtymavsfan13
12-19-2006, 11:24 PM
Iverson traded by 76ers to Nuggets

By DAN GELSTON, AP Sports Writer
December 19, 2006

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Allen Iverson got the new team he wanted, and the Denver Nuggets got the new superstar they suddenly needed.

The four-time scoring champion was traded Tuesday by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Nuggets for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks. The Nuggets also get Ivan McFarlin.

The deal came just as NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony began serving a 15-game suspension for his part in a weekend brawl between the Nuggets and New York Knicks.

Iverson now takes his 31.2-point scoring average to Denver and ends 10 turbulent seasons with the franchise that made him the No. 1 overall pick in 1996.

"I'm very happy about the trade," Iverson said in an e-mailed statement Tuesday night. "Denver's style of play fits my strengths. I'm looking forward to playing with Carmelo, the rest of the Denver Nuggets, and for (coach) George Karl, who is a proven winner."

Karl expects the deal to have an immediate impact on Denver.

"All trades shake your team a little bit," he said. "I hope that they realize that we're doing this to be better, we're doing this to be special, we're doing this to contend."

A seven-time All-Star, Iverson transformed the 76ers from lottery losers to contenders, though he couldn't bring home an NBA title to this championship-starved city. He came close in 2001, when the 76ers lost to the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA finals. Since then the team has fallen from the elite, missing the playoffs twice in the last three seasons.

This year has hardly been an improvement. The 76ers (5-18) have the worst record in the league and are on an 11-game losing streak.

"We haven't won a championship, and I think we were a long way from winning a championship, even with Allen," 76ers chairman Ed Snider said. "It was time for us to take a deep breath and say we've got to move in a different direction. Allen wanted to move in a different direction."

Sixers team president Billy King said the salary cap room created by the trade, along with the draft picks, will give Philadelphia the chance to rebuild.

Iverson is due the rest of his $18 million this season, and a combined $40 million through the 2008-09 season.

His relationship with the only team he's ever played for was irrevocably broke once he asked for a trade two weeks ago. He had just been fined for missing a team function and his relationship with coach Maurice Cheeks had deteriorated to where the point guard didn't want to play for him anymore.

The 76ers sent Iverson home for good after holding him out of a morning shootaround. Soon, his nameplate was removed, his locker was cleaned out, and his highlights edited out of a pregame video package.

Now the 31-year-old guard's chase for a coveted championship moves to the Western Conference, where his Nuggets will play Philadelphia on Jan. 2.

"I talked to Allen this afternoon. He's fired up," Karl said. "I believe him when he says he thinks this, of all the places he was rumored, this is the one he wanted."

The Nuggets and 76ers each have home games Wednesday night and hoped to have their newest players in the lineup, though Iverson's agent, Leon Rose, said the point guard would not be in the mix. "He'll play Friday (against Sacramento), for sure," he said.

The Denver fans would love to see him. This marks the Nuggets' biggest trade since they dealt Kiki Vandeweghe to Portland for Fat Lever, Calvin Natt and Wayne Cooper in 1984. That move helped them make the Western Conference finals the next season. This one, they hope, will help them make it to the NBA finals for the first time in the less-than-stellar history of the franchise.

No matter the drama in Iverson's life, it has rarely affected his performance on the court. Even this season, with Iverson unhappy and the 76ers stuck in last place, he still is second in the league in scoring (behind Anthony) and averaged 42.7 minutes and 2.2 steals.

Iverson is averaging 28.1 points, 6.1 assists and 2.3 steals in 697 career games. He scored a career-high 60 points against Orlando on Feb. 12, 2005.

But as dynamic as Iverson has been, and as thrilling as it can be to watch the 6-foot tattooed bundle of energy play, only once did he lead the Sixers out of the second round of the playoffs. And Philadelphia was only a modest 355-342 (.509 winning percentage) with Iverson in the lineup for regular-season games.

At his best, he has been the ultimate gamer, a hustling, hard-charging MVP who became one of the most popular players in the league. His No. 3 jersey was always one of the top sellers.

Iverson thanked the Philadelphia fans Thursday. "They've been with me every step of the way, through all the ups and downs," he said.

And there were some downs.

As much as Iverson thrilled 76ers fans with what he did on the court, he gave the team nearly as many headaches for what he did off it.

With his rants about practice, his run-ins with former coach Larry Brown, his arrests and failed rap career, Iverson was often a magnet for trouble.

Iverson and Brown were a volatile combination during the six seasons they spent together in Philly. Brown criticized Iverson for taking too many shots and accused him of being selfish at times.

Iverson often arrived late for practice or missed them entirely. In one infamous blowup at the end of the 2002 season he repeated the word "practice" nearly 20 times during a rambling monologue. He now pokes fun at the memorable meltdown.

Brown and Iverson eventually reconciled and the coach made his former guard co-captain of the 2004 Olympic men's basketball team.

While some have predicted his all-out style means he'll wear out sooner rather than later, Iverson still ricochets around the court like a pinball. He had 15 40-plus point games in 2005-06, including his 10th-career 50-point game.

Though Iverson's name was often part of trade rumors, the guard out of Georgetown, nicknamed "The Answer," used to say he wanted to end his career in Philadelphia. "I truly wanted to retire a 76er," he said after he was banished by the 76ers on Dec. 8.

Iverson's years in Philadelphia were marred by arrests in 1997 for carrying a concealed weapon and for possession of marijuana and in 2002 over a domestic dispute with his wife. He was sentenced to community service in 1997 and all charges were dropped against him five years later.

Then there was the never-released rap album, which drew criticism from civil rights groups and got Iverson a reprimand from NBA commissioner David Stern because of its offensive lyrics.

"Don't get me wrong, there's some bad stories out there," Karl acknowledged. "As I told 'Melo when I got here, there's some stories about me out there, too. There's a lot of positives.

"One thing I hear on a consistent basis, his teammates love him. I think we need better chemistry on my basketball team. I think we need more leadership. I think we need more emotional maturity, I think we need some mental toughness, some intensity, an every game, every possession mentality. I think everything I said there, Allen Iverson has."

While Iverson's maybe a half-step slower than he was 10-plus years ago as a rookie, that's still a step quicker than most players in the league. He still was too quick to guard 1-on-1 and beat teams with his killer crossover.

Perhaps in Denver, he won't have to shoulder the scoring load, as he always did in Philadelphia.

The 76ers can only hope trading this superstar doesn't end up as lopsided as their last two franchise-shifting deals. No one in Philly can forget the 76ers only getting Jeff Hornacek, Andrew Lang and Tim Perry for Charles Barkley in 1992. But that wasn't the worst. In 1968, the 76ers traded Wilt Chamberlain to the Lakers in 1968 for Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrall Imhoff.

AP Sports Writer Pat Graham in Denver contributed to this report.

birdsanctuary
12-19-2006, 11:29 PM
Interesting...

twelli
12-20-2006, 01:23 AM
I thought Garnett and Iverson would have been a good combination. Two veterans who still can play some and all they want is to get a ring.

Carmelo looks like a child and acts like a child. Will be fun to watch how they will implode themselves...

Murphy3
12-20-2006, 08:37 AM
Let's hope the ditch is wide enough for two.

The Crippler
12-20-2006, 11:01 AM
This is a pretty good trade for Denver for this year only. I don't see it working for the long run with Carmelo and Iverson, but they'll both be good soldiers this year, I would imagine. Not a lot of defense being thrown around by those two though or Denver really. Andre Miller was probably their best perimeter defender and distributor as well, so this does have a chance to blow up on them. This year though...they'll probably play off the emotion and "new girlfriend" giddyness and be pretty solid.

purplefrog
12-20-2006, 12:40 PM
Prediction: 'Melo asks for a trade by the end of next season.

Murphy3
12-20-2006, 01:22 PM
i read it fine

he said denver didn't do much to improve their title hopes which is pure garbage
You know, I've been in a good mood this year, but you're really starting to piss me off. Honestly, is pissing me off something that you think would be in your best interest? Let me know, and we can act on it accordingly.

Drbio
12-20-2006, 02:06 PM
I don't think murph can handle bigdaddy much longer.

Flacolaco
12-20-2006, 02:15 PM
You know, I've been in a good mood this year, but you're really starting to piss me off. Honestly, is pissing me off something that you think would be in your best interest? Let me know, and we can act on it accordingly.

allow a neutral observer to opine on this.....

while I enjoy your posts, you have not generally appeared to be in a good mood.

(this is the part where people tell me that Im to new to know the difference, right?)

:D

rmacomic
12-20-2006, 02:18 PM
I don't think murph can handle bigdaddy much longer.Yeah, New guys who piss of Murph should be limited to one at a time. Right I belive I own that title, You wanna take it. To be the man you gotta beat the man.:mad: BTW Anyone know why Murphs' Avatar appears to be an Anime Nun?:confused: That's how you piss him off. There can be only one.:p

EricaLubarsky
12-20-2006, 02:30 PM
honestly it helped the Nuggets, but even if Carmello and Iverson get along, they are second round fodder. Mark my words-- the best that team will do is a second round exit. Worst they will do is implode.

Drbio
12-20-2006, 04:03 PM
flaco- trust us....murph has been a kitten this year.

EricaLubarsky
12-20-2006, 08:40 PM
anyone know why the game tonight was postponed?

WurzburgBorn
12-20-2006, 08:46 PM
the Mavs game has been postponed?

Edit: Nuggets/Suns? snowed out

nashtymavsfan13
12-21-2006, 01:33 AM
The Suns-Nuggets game was postponed due to a blizzard in Denver. It also kept AI's plane from arriving in Denver.

dirno2000
12-21-2006, 01:37 AM
Suns fans were pissed. They were looking forward to racking up #16 against Marcus Camby and Earl Boykins.

WayOutWest
12-21-2006, 08:43 AM
*yawn*

A fLakers fan trying to convince Mavs fans that the Shaq trade wasn't the worst trade in NBA history. Pretty pathetic.

Typical counterpoints and insight.

Murphy3
12-21-2006, 09:05 AM
I think you'll find *yawn* in 20,000+ of doc's posts... He's really trying to cut back on his typing so that's his new favorite response.

dude1394
12-21-2006, 09:16 AM
So Iverson didn't "ask" for a trade but said if things didn't get better he didn't want to be there. Ooookaaay...

The drama begins.

dude1394
12-21-2006, 09:16 AM
So Iverson didn't "ask" for a trade but said if things didn't get better he didn't want to be there. Ooookaaay...

The drama begins.

..and repeats it seems.

V2M
12-21-2006, 09:19 AM
Don't know 'bout the worst trade... but the best trade ever for me is to trade the rights to Robert 'Tractor' Traylor for Dirk 'Freakin' Nowitzki!! :)

WayOutWest
12-21-2006, 09:23 AM
I think you'll find *yawn* in 20,000+ of doc's posts... He's really trying to cut back on his typing so that's his new favorite response.

He'd save more time with :p or something like that.

Five-ofan
12-21-2006, 10:41 AM
This is a stunning trade for philly! Miller is a top 6 point guard and 2 first rounders. Mr. King I tip my hat to you on this one, now don't screw it up on draft day...

Questions:
1. How much did the fight in MSG effect Denver's leverage?
2. Did Denver mortgage their future by dealing away those two picks and Miller (Smith was trade fodder)?
3. Does Denver have enough to join the western elite?
the two first picks are the mavs and the nuggets. They will both be in after 23 so its not that big a deal. This was an absolute raping by the nuggets. They couldnt keep miller and Ai together because of playing time reasons anyway so essentially they traded two firsts(low firsts) and Joe smith for Allen Freaking Iverson.

kriD
12-21-2006, 11:14 AM
Trouble ahead in Denver?

Stackhouse eager to see how former teammate meshes with Anthony

12:59 AM CST on Thursday, December 21, 2006
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

SEATTLE Jerry Stackhouse knows as well as anybody how tough it can be as a big-time scorer to co-exist with Allen Iverson.

Stackhouse was a second-year guard with the Philadelphia 76ers when Iverson won rookie of the year. Iverson averaged 23.5 points. Stackhouse averaged 20.7.

Early in the following season, Stackhouse was traded to Detroit.

For many reasons, Stackhouse is skeptical about the union of Iverson and Carmelo Anthony in Denver after the Nuggets traded for the diminutive guard. He said Wednesday that it could turn into an uncomfortable situation before it's over, in part because Iverson still has personal goals.

"He has aspirations of winning scoring titles, no matter who's on his team," Stackhouse said. "I'd say give it until the end of the season. Somebody might want to get out."

Iverson's history is that he has trouble playing well with other potent offensive players. Glenn Robinson, Derrick Coleman and an admittedly declining Chris Webber also have tried unsuccessfully to be Iverson's sidekick.

"Yesterday on ESPN, it was: Whose team is it?" Stackhouse said. "It still remains to be seen [how it will work out]."

However, Stackhouse said he felt like going to Denver was the best possible fit for Iverson, who demanded a trade and eventually was dealt for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and draft picks.

"They enjoy getting up and down and George [Karl] is perfect for him, too," Stackhouse said. "He doesn't give a damn if he wants to practice or not. If he brings it at 7:30, that's all he cares about.

"They talked about Minnesota and the fit, but having a younger coach that didn't have the respect of George Karl may have been a little difficult for him. He's eaten up a couple young coaches."

Bill Walton, analyst for ESPN and ABC, worked the Mavericks-Sonics game and said the deal was a no-brainer for the Nuggets.

"It makes Denver a better team," Walton said. "The Nuggets basically traded point guards and you get one of the premier players in the history of basketball for a journeyman. If there's anything shocking to me, it's how little Philly got back for how great Allen Iverson is."

The Mavericks aren't sure if this puts the Nuggets on the short list of contenders in the West, joining themselves, San Antonio, Phoenix and Utah.

"They could score the ball before and now they can really score the ball," Dirk Nowitzki said. "Obviously, they're as explosive as anybody in the league. We'll have to see how A.I. fits in when they get back. But obviously, talent-wise, they're up there with everybody."

Good start in Cowtown: The Mavericks are monitoring their two players in Fort Worth, and the early results are good.

Pops Mensah-Bonsu had 12 rebounds and one block in 24 minutes, and Moe Ager had 16 points and four rebounds in 27 minutes in the Flyers' win Tuesday night.

"We had to try to get them integrated into what we were doing," Flyers coach Sidney Moncrief said. "They did a good job given they've had limited practice. They made a contribution."

bigdaddy
12-21-2006, 12:46 PM
You know, I've been in a good mood this year, but you're really starting to piss me off. Honestly, is pissing me off something that you think would be in your best interest? Let me know, and we can act on it accordingly.

You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen. You certainly wouldn't want to face me one on one.

bigdaddy
12-21-2006, 12:50 PM
Anyone smarter than the crap that comes out of docbio's ass knows that there's more to putting together a winning team than throwing together talent.

Perhaps they're more likely to make it into the playoffs, but I don't see this team as a contender.. no moreso than they were before. They will implode somewhere along the way. They have too many players on the team that are all about their numbers and not about the team.

Does anyone remember when the Mavs added Jamison and Walker? Well, they added more scoring, rebounding and even a guy that could pass a little. Did it help the team in any capacity? No, the team was significantly worse the next year. Throwing in talent does not make the team a winner. It makes it more talented.

It's not even comparable

Iverson is a SUPERSTAR. One of the best players in our league. Don't even compare him to guys like walker and jamison.

The fact you think this doesn't improve their title hopes is crazy. Andre Miller is not close to the player Iverson Is. AI can make a impact on the court at any time. Miller is a slow guard who can't really run that fast and can't shoot.

Iverson in denver is going to be scary. You put two superstars on the same team and you have a very dangerous team. Along with camby in the middle. They are for sure a title contender.

EricaLubarsky
12-21-2006, 01:05 PM
Walton is an idiot. They traded Andre Miller but the real value of that trade was the two first round picks in a draft that is expected to run as deep as the one where we god Josh Howard at 29. Any team in the league could have gotten AI if it was one first rounder.

bigdaddy
12-21-2006, 01:10 PM
the two picks would be very late first rounders

so hardly high quailty.

WayOutWest
12-21-2006, 01:45 PM
You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen. You certainly wouldn't want to face me one on one.

OMG!!! A virtual tough guy. Murph, run for the virtual hills!!!!

nashtymavsfan13
12-21-2006, 01:49 PM
You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen. You certainly wouldn't want to face me one on one.

Not a smart move....

bigdaddy
12-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Threating someone over the internet is stupid. "OO look at me, I'm murph.....DON'T DARE PISS ME OFF ON A FORUM!! ME GET ANGRY, ME BREAK THINGS"

purplefrog
12-21-2006, 01:55 PM
Imo, the Nuggets will miss Andre Miller. They are going from a quarterback with a "pass first" mentality to another player who wants to be "The Man". AI is a superstar, but can you really succeed with two or three individuals who really want the ball so they can take over the game w/o having a distributor and playmaker? Miller was able to get the ball to 'Melo and JR where they could score. I don't think AI fits that role. Can Karl change the schemes to utilize AI's amazing talent without having negative impact on Melo or JR? Maybe.. maybe not. This is a risky move for the Nuggets. It might pay off big time, but it is a gamble.

Career Stats
AI 6.1 assists 3.8 TO 42% FG
Andre Miller 7.6 assists 2.8 TO 45% FG

Miller has no outside shot, but he knows his limits. Also, the Assists/TO ratio is something that you should not take lightly. Again, AI is great.. premier player in the NBA, but I don't think he is a good fit with the present Nuggets team. If you're a Nuggets fan or an AI fan you gotta hope Karl can work some magic. I, being a Mavs fan, hope the experiment blows up and Melo and JR ask to be traded. :D

Flacolaco
12-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Threating someone over the internet is stupid. "OO look at me, I'm murph.....DON'T DARE PISS ME OFF ON A FORUM!! ME GET ANGRY, ME BREAK THINGS"

this should make for some entertainment.

Drbio
12-21-2006, 02:44 PM
Threating someone over the internet is stupid. "OO look at me, I'm murph.....DON'T DARE PISS ME OFF ON A FORUM!! ME GET ANGRY, ME BREAK THINGS"

And yet you felt the need to post....
You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen. You certainly wouldn't want to face me one on one.


That's about as sane as an idiot fLakers fan trying to argue that the Shaq trade wasn't stupid.

bigdaddy
12-21-2006, 03:14 PM
And yet you felt the need to post....



That's about as sane as an idiot fLakers fan trying to argue that the Shaq trade wasn't stupid.

Did I just come out with that threat? no, I was not the one who threatened me first on a freaking internet forum.

Drbio
12-21-2006, 04:43 PM
Spin is easy for you isn't it?

And there is STILL no "S" in Nowitzki.

MavsX
12-21-2006, 10:13 PM
hahaha "s"

MavsX
12-21-2006, 10:14 PM
You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen. You certainly wouldn't want to face me one on one.

There's a reason why you have one 'red' reputation box. ^^^ I give you exhibit A.

Flacolaco
12-21-2006, 11:07 PM
dont feed the trolls

spreedom
12-21-2006, 11:23 PM
You know, I've been in a good mood this year, but you're really starting to piss me off. Honestly, is pissing me off something that you think would be in your best interest? Let me know, and we can act on it accordingly.


I nominate this post as the lamest of the year so far.. and considering that we're in late-December, that means quite a bit.

Murphy3
12-22-2006, 10:09 AM
You think you scare me somehow? easy to hide behind a computer screen.
I wouldn't threaten anyone with violence.. or wouldn't threaten anyone by saying that I'll call them names or anything like that.

However, I can tell you that you'll be added to the very long list of people that have tucked their head between their legs and waddled off to mavstalk... either that or you can try to become a productive member of the board. It's your choice.

She_Growls
12-23-2006, 10:50 AM
Iverson Debuts

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63905

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63924

She_Growls
12-23-2006, 04:37 PM
Updated: Dec. 23, 2006, 4:17 PM ET

Iverson getting to know Nuggets' system
Associated Press

DENVER -- It was just practice. Still, Allen Iverson didn't want to go home.

He had too much to absorb. So he hung around with son Deuce, who turned 9 on Saturday -- as most of the Denver players took off. Iverson shot a few more jumpers, watched Carmelo Anthony go one-on-one with J.R. Smith and had a long talk with coach George Karl.

Iverson made his Nuggets debut Friday night in a 101-96 loss to the Sacramento Kings and realized he has a lot to learn.

"For a guy that hasn't played in 14 or 15 days to do what he did [Friday night], it shows he's almost Superman," Karl said."
--George Karl
"It's tough when the point guard doesn't know the plays," he said. "I told Coach to give me a wrist band that football players wear so I can know where I am on the court."

Karl thought Iverson did fine considering he arrived in town a couple of hours before the game, made a 1-hour, 45-minute chauffeured drive through traffic to the arena, underwent a rushed physical, got in a few quick jumpers and then took the floor. He finished with 22 points and 10 assists in more than 39 minutes.

"He did some things last night that were very instinctive and very smart," Karl said.

All that despite the fact he's been out for the past few weeks as the Sixers looked for someone interested in trading for him. Denver sent Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two first-round picks in 2007 to Philly for Iverson and Ivan McFarlin earlier in the week. The Nuggets waived McFarlin on Friday night.

"I haven't been in the gym in a month," Iverson said. "The only thing I did was shoot in my front yard. That's it. I haven't ran or played any basketball, not even one-on-one."

Karl couldn't believe it.

"For a guy that hasn't played in 14 or 15 days to do what he did [Friday night], it shows he's almost Superman," Karl said.

But even Iverson has his Kryptonite -- a zone defense. The Kings played exclusively zone against Denver and Iverson would frequently penetrate and kick the ball back out, only to have someone miss an open jumper. Iverson was 9-for-15 and the rest of his teammates combined to shoot 27-for-82 (33 percent).

"My teammates were as nervous as I was," Iverson said. "Everybody was a little uptight."

Anthony, who's serving a 15-game suspension for his role in a brawl against the New York Knicks on Dec. 16, was watching from home, agonizing over what he was seeing. All those wide-open shots were tantalizing him.

"I was in the house, getting my wrists ready [to shoot the shots]," said Anthony, who went out to dinner with Iverson after the game. "I want to be out there so bad."

Iverson said it was hard to go through practice Saturday, knowing that Anthony and Smith, who's suspended for 10 games, can't play, and that Marcus Camby is missing with a fractured ring finger on his right hand. Camby is listed as game-to-game.

"It's kind of a tease," Iverson said. "It's tough thinking those guys are going to be out so long. I've never been on a team this good ever in my life."

While Iverson is second in the league to Anthony in scoring average, his focus isn't on winning another scoring crown. He's already led the league in scoring four times.

"I want Melo to win it," Iverson said. "I want him to have something like that on his resume because he deserves it. I'll be right there to help accomplish that."

Would he have said that eight years ago?

"It depends on when I won my first [scoring title]," he said, grinning. "After that, it didn't matter. Eight years ago, I would've thought I would've won eight championships by now. I'm going to do anything it takes to win a championship."

First things first, though -- he still has to learn Denver's offense.

"It was tough running around playing a system and not knowing it," Iverson said. "I felt good about getting in here [Saturday] and learning a little more. I'm trying to figure out how the team plays and trying to fit in."

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press

nashtymavsfan13
12-23-2006, 04:59 PM
Sounds like his focus is on a championship ans he seems like he's being a good team player so far....I wish we had traded for him....

Murphy3
12-23-2006, 05:09 PM
It won't last long.

rakesh.s
12-23-2006, 05:52 PM
nuggets, after trade: 0-1
philly, after trade: 1-0

dude1394
12-23-2006, 11:52 PM
nuggets, after trade: 0-1
philly, after trade: 1-0

Update Nuggets, 0-1, Philly 2-0.

Murphy3
03-10-2007, 09:38 AM
So, who thinks that Hollinger and BigDaddy should have to suck some doggy nuts after their opinions in this thread?

Murphy3
03-10-2007, 09:40 AM
Hollinger's take:

Just when you thought the West couldn't get any tougher, here comes another contender.

In one fell swoop on Tuesday, the Denver Nuggets went from a nice team that had little chance of making it past the first round to a legitimate threat to win the whole enchilada.

Yes, I said they can win it all. Everything.

As in, hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy in June, having a Coors-soaked parade under the shadow of the Rockies, and being linked to conspiracy theories all summer as the result of a few strange calls by Bennett Salvatore.

As you might have guessed, I think this trade was an absolute home run for the Nuggets, one that elevates them into the grouping with the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks when we discuss the league's elite. (Sorry Utah fans, I'm not quite ready to go there yet. Gimme another month and I'll take it under advisement.)

I'm still amazed that the price wasn't higher, and I sure hope for the Clippers' sake that Shaun Livingston -- whom they deemed untouchable -- turns out to be a big star, because otherwise they're going to be wiping egg off their faces for a long time.

Yes, Iverson can be a pain in the butt. For one thing, he's not big on the whole idea of practice. Plus, he's likely to miss some time with injuries, and he's already 31. Just to make sure we're covering all the negatives, the trade also cost the Nuggets their best (some would say "only") passer in Andre Miller, subtracted frontcourt depth with the loss of Joe Smith, and forces two of the game's most tunnel-visioned scorers to share a single leather basketball.

In spite of that, I love it. Here's why:

The system fits. Putting Iverson with Anthony works a lot better than, say, pairing Stephon Marbury with Steve Francis, because this duo scores in very different ways.

Iverson wants the ball at the beginning of the play so he can go off the dribble and create; 'Melo is end-of-the-play guy interested in finishing. The only change required is that Iverson will have to pass a bit more and shoot a bit less, but we're not talking about radical surgery for a guy who's averaged better than seven assists per game the last three seasons.

And beyond that, Denver doesn't need to change a thing. The Nuggets already are the league's fastest-paced team, so we won't see the scenes in Philly with Iverson jetting out on the break while Chris Webber gamely tries to drag his leg down the court.

Additionally, the Nuggets already had two players who shared traits with Iverson: a lead guard with a shaky outside shot (Miller), and a mini-Iverson (Earl Boykins, coming off the bench). As a result, Iverson will fit into George Karl's system as seamlessly as any player in the league could, especially since he can spend his first 13 or 14 games gunning at will before Anthony comes back from suspension.

And unlike some coaches, Karl doesn't seem to have a big problem working with players who are perceived as difficult. He almost seems to relish it, in fact, as Gary Payton can attest.

C'mon, would you rather see Earl Boykins take those shots? People think that the Nugget who will miss out on the most shots will be Anthony, but this isn't true. Really, the guy who's going to lose out is Boykins, who will see a precipitous drop in playing time once the suspensions end because Iverson can do his superhuman 46-minute routine on so many nights.

This is the same Boykins who is shooting 37.0 percent from the floor, has upset teammates with his poor shot selection, is on the trading block and is spending tonight trying to figure out why he's still a Nugget.

Shouldn't be a tough act to follow for the Answer. Meanwhile, having those shots transferred to Iverson's ledger should produce an uptick in baskets and a huge jump in free-throw attempts.

Look at last year's Sixers. If you want to know how these guys can share the ball, consider the 2005-06 76ers.

Like this year's Nuggets, that team had Iverson ... except it had about 1/63rd of the surrounding talent. Two players accounted for the vast chunk of the Sixers' possessions -- Iverson and Chris Webber. Webber's Usage Rate (the rate of possessions used) wasn't much different from Carmelo Anthony's a year ago, so think of it as Iverson playing with a one-legged version of Anthony.

Despite that, and the paucity of teammates who could score (for a quick refresher, Kevin Ollie played more than 1,000 minutes; John Salmons played more than 2,000; and Webber, the No.2 option, had a 48.2 True Shooting Percentage), the Sixers were an above-average offensive team a year ago, ranking 13th in the NBA in Offensive Efficiency.

Now replace Webber with Carmelo Anthony. Replace Samuel Dalembert with Marcus Camby, Kevin Ollie with Boykins, Kyle Korver with J.R. Smith, and Steven Hunter with Nene. Don't you think it's possible that the Nuggets will be just a wee bit better off?

In fact, the Nuggets already are an excellent offensive team -- they rank sixth in Offensive Efficiency through Monday's games, and are within 1.1 points of second place. With the addition of Iverson, it says here that from the end of 'Melo's suspension to the end of the season, only Phoenix will be better offensively.

The bigs don't need the rock. This is an underrated aspect of the Iverson deal, but an important one.

Look at the types of big guys the Nuggets have. There's Marcus Camby, who doesn't need to have any plays called for him and gets all his points on transition, offensive boards and kick-out jumpers. There's Eduardo Najera, who scores on hustle plays, sets bone-jarring screens and otherwise stays out of the way.

And then there's Reggie Evans. I don't think there could be a more perfect fit than putting Evans on a team with Iverson and Anthony. All those two guys want to do is shoot it, and all Evans wants to do is gather the misses.

Evans ranks second in the NBA in Offensive Rebound Rate behind Indiana's Jeff Foster, grabbing an amazing 16.4 percent of the misses when he's on the court. Thus, his greatest skill is perfectly placed to mitigate Iverson's worst trait -- his tendency to keep letting it rip on a 7-for-24 night.

The 'Sheed factor. Remember when Rasheed Wallace got traded from Portland to Atlanta to Detroit? (Yes, he was a Hawk. Even played a game for them. Both teams played hard.) Remember how he bent over backwards to show his new teammates that his reputation was wrong and he could be a great team player? And remember how he was the missing link that took Detroit from a solid-but-unspectacular playoff team to NBA Champions?

This is Iverson right now. For the first time in years he has something to prove and capable teammates to prove it with. He knows his legacy is at stake, too. It's one thing if you can't coexist with Jerry Stackhouse or Keith Van Horn -- people will forgive that. But if he can't make it work with Anthony, that's what will go down in the history books: "Great individual player. Could win only if other four guys didn't want or need the ball."

As a result of that, and the fact that Iverson has a legitimate shot at a ring for the first time in years, I have a feeling we're in for some of his best basketball. None of this will change the fact that he's 31, that he might get hurt, or that his jumper is streaky at best. But I'd rather take my chances on a focused, motivated, hell-bent-to-prove-them-wrong Iverson than on the dejected, sullen guy who was getting his brains beat in every night as a Sixer.

So overall, it's a fantastic deal for the Nuggets. One of the things Michael Lewis points out in the book "Moneyball" is that midseason trades are a tremendous opportunity, because they give teams a chance to make deals they never could get away with in the offseason.

In my view, this was that kind of trade. The Nuggets basically just got Iverson for Andre Miller. Are you kidding me? Could any team possibly have made that deal over the summer, or anything close to it? Of course not.

But they pulled it off, and because of it they have a two-year window to bring the city its first NBA championship.
Nice take Hollinger. Do you feel like an idiot? Which makes you look worse, you 'rankings' putting the Spurs ahead of the Mavs or this article?

jleefilled
03-10-2007, 12:42 PM
We should have all saw it coming. Afterall, isn't his nickname "The CAnswer"? Or is is "The Answer"? I can't keep track of these nicknames. ;)

Edit: Looks like A.I. and the Nuggets are starting to pick up some steam. 4 in a row, including absolute thrashings of both the Lakers and the Suns. Long term, I don't see the pairing of Melo/A.I. being successful, but as far as this season goes, they could cause some problems for a lot of teams during the playoffs. I think AI's been reading these boards. Someone needs to tell him that I was just joking.

Underdog
03-10-2007, 01:23 PM
How does Hollinger breath with his head up his ass?

dirno2000
03-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Denver looks like they're starting to click. They've won 5 straight including the mauling of the Suns this weekend.

Even more impressive is their improvement on the defensive end. When this thread was started they were 20th in the league in defensive efficiency. They're now up to 10th (7th using Hollinger's numbers).

If Nene and Camby stay healthy, it wouldn't shock me to see them beat PXH in the first round.

endrity
03-20-2007, 09:43 PM
So yes, Hollinger was right. They have a potential to be a great great team, especially if the Answer is willing to share the ball, which does not seem a problem up to now. The bigger problem has been Melo taking some bad bad shots. I believe that if they develop Nene properly, they can be at the top of the conference next year. I am very high on Nene, they just dont' feed him the ball much, but I think of him as a stronger, but a little less athletic version of Amare. His hands are pure gold, excellent for a man his size and he already has a very nicely developed jumper. They develop him, they will be great next year. You heard here first.

dirno2000
03-20-2007, 09:52 PM
They still have two one on one players and no PG so to be near the top of the West they're going to need to be an elite defensive team. I don't see that happening. They'll be a headache in the playoffs though.

endrity
03-20-2007, 10:00 PM
I was talking more about next year, they are still a little too much in the air right now, but they can come together next year. AI can play PG, he has done so before, and he is pretty good at it actually. He has some silly TOs but he knows how to run a team. Steve Blake is good also. But I think they want to play AI at PG as a starter, him and Blake is too small of a backcourt. By next year I would think they want JR Smith ready to start given his incredible shooting touch. If not, Diawarra will continue to start especially for his defense. But they have the tools, they have depth, Kleiza is also coming along really well. The AI trade was always aiming for next year, but if they do something this year I will not be surprised.

Thespiralgoeson
03-21-2007, 04:22 AM
Allen Iverson is a badass. That's all I have to say for now.