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View Full Version : Jeff Van Gundy should be shot.


Thespiralgoeson
03-31-2007, 01:35 AM
Alright, so I just got done watching the Houston/LA game. Very entertaining stuff. The Rockets win by three in OT despite Kobe going off for 53 blah blah blah... Lots of drama, great television.

But the real reason I sat down to watch the game in the first place was to study the Rockets, because I haven't had many opportunities to see Yao and McGrady on the floor together many times this season. In watching them tonight against the Lakers (and last night against the Clippers) I noticed a few points of interest.

First of all, Yao still doesn't get the ball enough. Yao is officially the league's most lethal low-post scorer. Really, for a guy that huge to have such a soft touch is incredible. For anyone who really appreciates good basketball, Yao is quite fun to watch. But still, he needs to shoot more. I swear everytime I watch Houston play, Yao is carrying the team for most of the game, then he has one or two bad possessions, and they go away from him. It happened again tonight against the Lakers. Seriously, it ain't rocket science. Give the guy the ball when he's in the paint, and he's either gonna score or get to the FT line, where he shoots better than 80%

Second and most importantly McGrady's shot selection is downright awful. I don't even think he shoots too much. Really, a player like T-Mac should dominate the ball, even if he has Yao Ming on his team. But the guy just constantly jacks up contested shots. He wasn't always this way. Hell, even just a few weeks ago, before Yao came back, he was shooting the ball well. But seriously, all night long he's just heaving the ball in the air expecting it to go in. I've notice he doesn't quite have the same elevation on his jumpshot like he's usually had, but the guy is still as talented as anyone in the league, and could score 30+ every night if he'd pull his head out of his ass. He'd be much more productive if he'd just try breaking down the defense a little, like he's done in the past.

Thirdly, Van Gundy can't coach an offense to save his life. Give the man his due for what he does on the other end of the floor. The Rockets have nobody with the exception of Battier that's particularly known for their defense, but they still lockdown as well as anybody. But seriously, the Rockets' offense is just painful to watch. Van Gundy seemed to have it right at the beginning of the season when McGrady's primary focus was running the point, and Yao was the focal point of the offense. Then Yao injures his leg and T-Mac carries the team. But since then, they've fallen back into their old, bad habits. McGrady's a phenominal player, but if the Rockets are ever going to really compete for a championship, they have to realize that Yao is the one that's going to get them there.

Really, Jeff... How hard is it to get the ball the gargantuan chinese man standing there, waiving his arms in the air, asking for the friggin ball? They seem to thrive on defense, but I think they'd be better served with a defensive minded coach that isn't completely incompetent at coaching offense. Someone like Rick Carlisle could probably coach that team to a title.

Bookit
03-31-2007, 08:51 AM
My father is a huge Rockets fan and he is constantly complaining about Van Gundy's offense. He just can't coach it. However, the team played very well without Yao and with Deke at center for most of the season. Deke wan't the focal point of the offense but the team was playing well. Kind of like Damp and Diop here. The team can score in other ways and the center just gets put-backs, rebounds, and blocks shots. It works.

Now that Yao came back, Van Gundy is trying to keep the same offensive midset that worked without Yao for most of the season. That is what my father believes anyway.

nikeball
03-31-2007, 10:50 AM
wow. a father who is a rockets fan...and a son who is a mavs fan.

talk about a house divided.

AxdemxO
03-31-2007, 11:11 AM
All I can Say is T Mac had 30 and 10, Kobe had 53 and 2 and guess who won. T Mac just like Kobe can shoot over any1, but he has not been shooting too much and has been passing the ball unlike Kobe. And people need to give him credit, because when Yao went down people though it was over for the Rockets and he carried them. Also Yao as good as he is is not at the point where he can take over a game. he is where Dirk was 2 years ago. great but could not always take over a game. Dirk can do it now and Yao will get there, but my point is that T Mac is still their best scoring option in tough situations.

Bookit
03-31-2007, 12:04 PM
wow. a father who is a rockets fan...and a son who is a mavs fan.

talk about a house divided.

Yeah, and my father still believes in his heart that the Rockets were robbed by the refs in that series a few years ago. I just laugh when he brings it up.

DOMINATOR
03-31-2007, 03:04 PM
T-mac's shot hasnt been falling the last few games. he still plays good D and passes very well. Yao should only get 18-20 shots a game. anymore he gets tired and starts missing. plus he plays less minutes than T-mac.
im not too worried. no reason JVG and tmac should show their cards before the hand is over.

also Tmac: 15/16 FTs, 5 rbs, 10 asst.

Thespiralgoeson
03-31-2007, 05:15 PM
T-Mac doesn't shoot too much. He just takes bad shots. I swear every shot he takes is contested. He needs to take his man off the dribble more often, and try getting to the rim more.

DOMINATOR
03-31-2007, 05:28 PM
tmac doesnt go to the rim as much because of his glass back. in the playoffs he will probably drive alot more than now.

Thespiralgoeson
03-31-2007, 05:33 PM
tmac doesnt go to the rim as much because of his glass back. in the playoffs he will probably drive alot more than now.

If that's the case, then he DOES shoot too much. Either take good shots, or pass the ball, but never ever hock up one contested shot after another. Especially not when you have Yao on the block just begging for the ball.

pkdumas
03-31-2007, 07:21 PM
The Rockets do not worry me at all for the playoffs. None.

nowhereman
03-31-2007, 07:38 PM
The Rockets do not worry me at all for the playoffs. None.

not what this thread is about, dude.

I definitely agree that the rockets need to work on their offensive philosophy with both Yao and TMac in the lineup. I don't think they know before the game where their focal point on offense is. This in turn makes it harder to impose their gameplan, which forces their entire lineup to have to play more versatile basketball than they are qualified to.

that's what's great about the mavs, suns, and spurs, and i think the only differentiable difference between those teams and the rockets. these teams know how to play to their strengths, and their gameplan revolves around dictating the pace and order of the game. The mavs and spurs also have the versatility to adapt if they are not able to impose their style. The rocks don't look like they know what their M.O. is on offense.

Rocket fans that have watched more games than I have, what is your take? How accurate is my assessment?

hburtts
03-31-2007, 10:04 PM
I think you're spot on. Again, you cannot overstate what injuries have done to our gameplan in general. We have YET to play a full uninterupted season with both horses in the lineup. Obviously, we're somewhat behind in what our identity and offensive m.o. should be.

My true feeling (and I bleed rockets red) is that our direction should be establishment of the block first, draw the double, then kick. That is Rudy Ball at it's finest (we've absolutely been blessed with gifted big men over the past 2 decades).

It's funny, because I find myself torn whenever Mac rises up. It's feast or famine with him (as far as jackin' the jumper). But he does so much more and is truly a gifted decision maker. Bottom line though. . . .the offense should go through Yao.

Dallas fans; you all should enjoy what your team is accomplishing right now. I hope you continue this excellence right into the second round. I would love to go to war with ya'll again. I feel we match up very well with your club. . . . .could be very interesting. . .

aexchange
03-31-2007, 10:44 PM
The Rockets do not worry me at all for the playoffs. None.

this is an idiotic statement to make. the rockets give us plenty of reason to worry. remember the series a few years ago where we constantly got blitzed on yao and mcgrady pick and rolls in the playoffs?

remember the 1st game of the season this year, when we got our asses handed to us in houston?

unfortunately, we still have the same lovable cast of characters counted on to guard yao and company. and if you think diop, damp or willis is going to be able to shut yao down for less than 30 pts a game, you are sadly mistaken.

i put the rockets chances of beating the mavs in a series at less than 35%, but any person who says the mavs have no reason to worry is simply ignorant.

Tokey41
03-31-2007, 10:44 PM
Wasn't Van Gundy mentioned in the running for COTY?

hburtts
03-31-2007, 11:34 PM
Indeed he was (Van Gundy). I haven't heard much lately with regard to that now. Here in H-town the general feeling is that if we do not get out of the first round then he'll be Van-Gonedy (some clever blogwriter for the chron came up with that one!).

At any rate, I'm decidedly a supporter and I believe that he is an outstanding coach who's done an amazing job considering the circumstances since he's been here.

And1
03-31-2007, 11:40 PM
If that's the case, then he DOES shoot too much. Either take good shots, or pass the ball, but never ever hock up one contested shot after another. Especially not when you have Yao on the block just begging for the ball.

When T-Mac gets into rhythm--he makes a lot of those j-shots look easy and automatic. Believe it or not, T-mac was driving to the basket quite often in this game and getting AND1s or going to the line for 2, sometimes 3.

They will definitely go to Yao down the stretch of close playoff games as he is 86% from the line. If the inside-out game is on, the game opens up for Yao and he does not get tired as much...but his teammates have to hit their 3s.

And1
03-31-2007, 11:46 PM
this is an idiotic statement to make. the rockets give us plenty of reason to worry. remember the series a few years ago where we constantly got blitzed on yao and mcgrady pick and rolls in the playoffs?

remember the 1st game of the season this year, when we got our asses handed to us in houston?

unfortunately, we still have the same lovable cast of characters counted on to guard yao and company. and if you think diop, damp or willis is going to be able to shut yao down for less than 30 pts a game, you are sadly mistaken.

i put the rockets chances of beating the mavs in a series at less than 35%, but any person who says the mavs have no reason to worry is simply ignorant.


I agree. And conversely, when I hear some newbies on clutch saying the mavs don't worry them.....I'm like whatever noooobie:rolleyes:

hburtts
03-31-2007, 11:46 PM
...but his teammates have to hit their 3s.

we'll have a nice run if this happens. . .

AstroRocket
04-01-2007, 12:02 AM
we'll have a nice run if this happens. . .


We can only hope. I mean, is it still much of a secret to just leave Rafer open and you'll be fine?

kingmalaki
04-01-2007, 12:46 AM
The assessments here are spot on concerning our offense. JVG can't devise schemes to save his life. He should be very happy that he has a center that he can just throw the ball to and a SG who can get a shot whenever he wants and create for others. I don't know why he just doesn't do the Phil Jackson thing and hire some assistants to devise stuff...then take the credit....lol.

What JVG does bring to the team is a defensive mindset which keeps us in most games and is what playoff ball is all about....so for that I am happy. Our offense now is similar to when we won our titles....kick inside or let T-Mac create and hope the role players knock down their 3's. Too bad out PG can't shoot though....

I still think we will be a deadly team to face in the postseason....

antoinewalker
04-01-2007, 02:25 AM
Yeah, and my father still believes in his heart that the Rockets were robbed by the refs in that series a few years ago. I just laugh when he brings it up.
lol, i love how mavs fans claim that series was called fairly but they don't hesitate to complain or moan about all the calls in the finals last year.

nowhereman
04-01-2007, 03:42 AM
according to the nba, yao commited 9 uncalled moving screens in the first 2 games.

mike finley stepped out of bounds once.

nashtymavsfan13
04-01-2007, 03:46 AM
lol, i love how mavs fans claim that series was called fairly but they hesitate to complain or moan about all the calls in the finals last year.

Did you see the Finals last year? The calls were pathetic, and any real NBA fan can see that. The Mavs-Rox series wasn't called any better for the Mavs than it was for the Rockets, and in game 7 when you lose by 40 points the refs aren't much of a factor.

Thespiralgoeson
04-01-2007, 03:54 AM
lol, i love how mavs fans claim that series was called fairly but they hesitate to complain or moan about all the calls in the finals last year.

Are you kidding me? The Rockets got short-changed a few times in that series (Finley stealing the ball out of bounds being the most noteable.) But Dirk was absolutely mugged everytime he went to the rim in that series, and more often than not didn't get the call. If you honestly think the Rockets got screwed over in that series, you're just not very bright.

fluid.forty.one
04-01-2007, 03:54 AM
I like Jeff cause he always gives props to the mavs.

Thespiralgoeson
04-01-2007, 03:55 AM
I like Jeff cause he always gives props to the mavs.

I like Jeff the guy. Not crazy about Jeff the coach.

fluid.forty.one
04-01-2007, 03:55 AM
lol, i love how mavs fans claim that series was called fairly but they hesitate to complain or moan about all the calls in the finals last year.

If I was a rockets fan I wouldnt bring up that series because the rockets pretty much owned themselves in game 7.

I mean.. there might have been a couple bad calls, but the refs didnt make the rockets get blown out by 40 POINTS in a game 7.

fluid.forty.one
04-01-2007, 03:56 AM
I like Jeff the guy. Not crazy about Jeff the coach.

Hey you should be happy with him dude, I'm ecstatic when the opposing team's coach doesn't know what he's doing.

Thespiralgoeson
04-01-2007, 03:59 AM
Hey you should be happy with him dude, I'm ecstatic when the opposing team's coach doesn't know what he's doing.

Oh, I will feel that way should the Rockets and Mavs meet in the playoffs. Otherwise, I always root for the Rockets anytime they're not playing the Mavs.

hburtts
04-01-2007, 04:08 AM
when you lose by 40 points the refs aren't much of a factor.

How true that statement is. We had no business or excuses for that pathetic showing in game 7. We got our arses handed to us plain and simple. Assuming that we take care of Utah in the 1st round (I know I shouldn't assume that), I can't wait to see Dallas in the second. Talk of that game 7 still stings to this day.

rmacomic
04-01-2007, 04:15 AM
Oh, I will feel that way should the Rockets and Mavs meet in the playoffs. Otherwise, I always root for the Rockets anytime they're not playing the Mavs.
The only way I would root for the Rockets is if they all moved to Fort Worth and played for our D-League.

nowhereman
04-01-2007, 04:25 AM
since we've digressed, i'll just say it again: i like the rockets players. i just hate a select few of their idiot fans. i lived with 2 of them last year in Austin. it was so painful. such blind homerism. made it really hard for me to root for the rockets ever again.

but i think they've got a good team. JVG should win COTY and proceed to be fired as soon as the season is over.

hburtts
04-01-2007, 04:31 AM
JVG can't devise schemes to save his life.
I think Jeff gets a bad wrap here. I mean, you are what you are. We knew who he was when he came here and there's been no suprises. We are not going to be an offensive juggernaut most of the time. We don't have the personnel to do that. Yao is truly unique, but you must take the good with the bad. He lumbers (at best) up and down the court. We have to slow the game down to take advantage of Yao's strengths. I'm not sure THERE IS a better offensive scheme than what we're running now. Which leads me to achilles heal. . . . .

Too bad out PG can't shoot though....
How.
True.
This.
Is.
I love Skip. I love him for his heart and handles. I hate Skip. I hate him because most of the time he can't throw it in the ocean. It ain't Yao or Tracy's play that's going to decide our fate, it's Mr. And One. But, being a true Rox fan you already know that.

I still think we will be a deadly team to face in the postseason....
Let's take care of Utah today!!!!!

DOMINATOR
04-01-2007, 12:45 PM
if rafer shoots 10 shots at most a game his percentage is sooo much better than when he jacks up 15+. hes got great handles though.

kingmalaki
04-01-2007, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't say that the refs robbed the Rockets in the series two years ago. I will say that the Finley out of bounds call was one of the biggest missed calls that I have ever seen in NBA playoff basketball history. With that being said, that call didn't have anything to do with us getting our ass kicked in Game 7.

Blaming the refs for a loss is kinda girly....ya know. There will always be missed calls that anyone could point to if they chose.

antoinewalker
04-01-2007, 11:51 PM
according to the nba, yao commited 9 uncalled moving screens in the first 2 games.

mike finley stepped out of bounds once.
there was a lot more than just finley stepping out of bounds, lol.

Flacolaco
04-01-2007, 11:54 PM
why is it that every thread about the rockets has so many of these http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gif in them?

DOMINATOR
04-02-2007, 12:14 AM
why is it that every thread about the rockets has so many of these http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gif in them?
its not negative rep... its ROCKETS RED REP!!! :D :p

Dirkadirkastan
04-02-2007, 12:18 AM
its not negative rep... its ROCKETS RED REP!!! :D :p

gay

Flacolaco
04-02-2007, 12:23 AM
why is it that every thread about the rockets has so many of these http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/satellite/reputation/reputation_neg.gif in them?

I'm sorry. My fault. I should have been more clear

"Go away, trolls"

DOMINATOR
04-02-2007, 12:45 AM
wow i was only negative repped once.
this is the NBA section with a thread about the rockets... you should expect a few rockets fans to show up.
why you guys take it so serious?

Flacolaco
04-02-2007, 01:04 AM
wow i was only negative repped once.
this is the NBA section with a thread about the rockets... you should expect a few rockets fans to show up.
why you guys take it so serious?


Actually I applaud you for going to a forum with fans of a team that actually matter, as opposed to where you usually hang out.

DOMINATOR
04-02-2007, 01:24 AM
Actually I applaud you for going to a forum with fans of a team that actually matter
stay classy dallas :rolleyes:

as opposed to where you usually hang out.
clutchfans.net is horrible after the rockets lose.

alexamenos
04-02-2007, 10:25 AM
First of all, Yao still doesn't get the ball enough. Yao is officially the league's most lethal low-post scorer.....

a good take on things....I think perhaps the big reason that Yao doesn't get the ball more is because his stamina is for shite. After 20 minutes of run it looks to me like he's just dying out there.

DarenG
04-02-2007, 10:46 AM
a good take on things....I think perhaps the big reason that Yao doesn't get the ball more is because his stamina is for shite. After 20 minutes of run it looks to me like he's just dying out there.

Great observation. I swear every time I see this guy he is gasping for air. Could it be the altitude he plays at? :D

mcsluggo
04-02-2007, 11:01 AM
Uhm... I actually think that it is due to the fact that the human body wasn't designed to be 7'8" tall (or wahtever his enoromous height is). Puting a fairly standard set of heart and lungs into that thing is like putting a Geo Metro engine into Hummer body... its gonna get worn out. Unfortunately, he will very likely die of a heart attack before he is 55 years old.

alexamenos
04-02-2007, 11:04 AM
Uhm... I actually think that it is due to the fact that the human body wasn't designed to be 7'8" tall (or wahtever his enoromous height is).

yeah, I've heard a few people say that he'd be actually be better player if he were a few inches shorter and few pounds lighter. classic diminishing returns.

cheers

DOMINATOR
04-02-2007, 01:50 PM
yea thats why Yao isnt very good in the 4th quarter. i think he should do that altitude bubble thing that Gilbert Arenas does.

Thespiralgoeson
04-02-2007, 05:43 PM
a good take on things....I think perhaps the big reason that Yao doesn't get the ball more is because his stamina is for shite. After 20 minutes of run it looks to me like he's just dying out there.

This is true, but that doesn't explain why he doesn't get the ball when he's 5 feet away from the basket with his arm in the air, calling for the ball.

And1
04-07-2007, 01:05 AM
Uhm... I actually think that it is due to the fact that the human body wasn't designed to be 7'8" tall (or wahtever his enoromous height is). Puting a fairly standard set of heart and lungs into that thing is like putting a Geo Metro engine into Hummer body... its gonna get worn out. Unfortunately, he will very likely die of a heart attack before he is 55 years old.


That's ridiculous. A taller person has a larger heart(usually anatomically normal),greater ejection fraction, blood volume, lung capacity etc.

It is more to do that it is simply easier for a smaller individual to run up and down the court without strain the same way a 911 twin turbo can sprint up and down a track course easier than a chevy suburban...a suburban can do it, just not as quick and efficient.

Yao, like a rock!

Tokey41
04-07-2007, 08:38 PM
Once Van Gundy realizes Yao plays for the Rockets, they'll be scary.... he may be concerned about his stamina but he's the best player on that team, not Tmac. He deserves more touches and should DEMAND more touches. I haven't seen many Rockets games but I remember Alston as a Raptor being a ball hog who shoots a lot more than he should, and I know Tmac takes some pretty awful shots as well... so in that sense I feel bad for the big guy. If he played for a more unselfish team they would be riding his coat tails to a lot more victories.

Underdog
04-08-2007, 03:18 PM
Van Gundy is the antithesis of Don Nelson... Nellie is all offense & no defense, whereas Van Gundy is all defense & no offense... Houston is a great team on paper, but their chemistry makes them unbearable to watch!