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Dirkgreatness
03-31-2007, 01:50 PM
Hall monitor
Which NBA vets deserve enshrinement in Springfield?
Posted: Friday March 30, 2007 1:04PM; Updated: Friday March 30, 2007 4:30PM
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The Hall of Fame is set to announce its Class of 2007 on Monday. To mark the occasion, we thought it would be fun to predict which of today's current players will soon be joining the enshrinees in Springfield, Mass.

The only caveat is that we're only going to consider players who are in their ninth season or more. Sorry, LeBron and D-Wade, but you'll have to wait. For now we want to just analyze those players who have a long and proven track record in the NBA.

Keep in mind, the Basketball Hall of Fame is a very exclusive club. It is not like the baseball Hall, which seems to allow in every pitcher who manages to hang around 15 seasons. In basketball, you're lucky if one or two guys make it in a given year. In fact, over the past five years there have been only seven players inducted (not counting veteran's committee selections): Charles Barkley, Joe Dumars, Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, Robert Parish, James Worthy and Magic Johnson.

Also, this is by nature a subjective exercise. We happen to prefer players who leave a mark on the game more than those who pile up big stats. You might have a different view, and that's OK. But here's a note that might be of interest: Every past MVP has made it to the Hall (which is good news for Kevin Garnett).

No-brainers: These guys are in

Shaquille O'Neal - Ranks with Chamberlain, Russell and Abdul-Jabbar on the list of all-time greatest pivots; has four NBA rings and an MVP.

Tim Duncan - One of the greatest power forwards ever to play; three NBA titles and two MVPs make him a first-ballot shoo-in.

Allen Iverson - The best scorer under 6-foot-5 ever to play the game; owns the third-highest scoring average of all time.

Kobe Bryant - One of the greatest scorers ever, but also a fierce competitor and three-time NBA champ.

Kevin Garnett - The NBA's Ernie Banks; even if he never wins a ring, the '04 MVP deserves it for all-around excellence and love of the game.

Steve Nash - The only player under 6-5 to win two MVPs. Plus, he's Canada's biggest contribution to basketball since Naismith.

Probably in, but have to think about it

Jason Kidd - One of the all-time best point guards, and the most creative passer of his era; played the game at both ends, and made it to two NBA Finals with Nets.

Gary Payton - One of the game's top defenders; was also a 20-point scorer who led Sonics to the NBA
Finals, and won a ring as backup with Heat in '06.

Dirk Nowitzki - Maybe the best European player ever, the 7-foot German has established himself as one of the top scorers of his era. But if his Mavs blow it again, all bets are off.
Bubble candidates

Vince Carter - Eight-time All-Star and one of the all-time best dunkers, but has never won anything and had a messy departure from Toronto.

Ray Allen - Seven-time All-Star and owner of one of the all-time prettiest jump shots, but has never led his team past the conference semifinals.

Paul Pierce - May go down as the greatest scorer in Celtics history, but has none of the playoff success associated with Boston's glorious tradition.

Tracy McGrady - One of the premier scorers of his era, but he too lacks postseason validation. His next playoff series triumph will be his first.

Ben Wallace - Four-time Defensive Player of the Year and anchor of the Pistons' 2004 championship. But should he get in if he only played at one end?

Dikembe Mutombo - Unlike Wallace, he has a 10-point scoring average to go with his four Defensive Player of Year trophies. But he doesn't have the ring.

Early Hall potential has since faded away

Grant Hill - The former Duke standout was well on his way before a foot injury derailed his career. Too bad, because he is also one of the game's all-time gentlemen.

Alonzo Mourning - A few years ago I thought he should get in, but I've changed my mind. Now I think he'll be remembered more for his courageous comeback from kidney disease than his fierce defense and shot-blocking. And that's not a bad thing.

Chris Webber - Like Hill and Mourning, he had a chance before suffering a devastating injury (knee). At least he's regaining a measure of pride in Detroit.

As for everyone else ...
... you had your moments and you made a nice chunk of change. But sorry, Chauncey Billups, Mike Bibby, Rashard Lewis, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephon Marbury, Michael Finley, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell et al. -- you'll need to buy a ticket for this Hall of Fame.




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/marty_burns/03/30/hall.worthy/index.html

The Crippler
03-31-2007, 02:03 PM
hilarious.

nashtymavsfan13
03-31-2007, 02:10 PM
So the best shooting big man of all time, as well as being the best Euopean player of all time doesn't get him in? Rediculous.

NXperience
03-31-2007, 02:14 PM
Ben Wallace - Four-time Defensive Player of the Year and anchor of the Pistons' 2004 championship. But should he get in if he only played at one end?

That line let me smile *cough* Nash *cough*

TheBlueVan
03-31-2007, 03:15 PM
why the heck is Garnett in over Nowitzki? just because he doesnt demand a trade doesnt mean he just "loves the game" so much hes happy in minnesota

fluid.forty.one
03-31-2007, 03:16 PM
Umm if the Mavs blow it all bets are off?

Does that mean Karl Malone doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame?

mary
03-31-2007, 03:23 PM
Winning MVP pretty much gets you in the Hall of Fame, with or without a ring.

Dr.Zoidberg
03-31-2007, 03:23 PM
Dirk Nowitzki as one of the best, pobable most versatile european players and not only one of the top scorers of his era, but the best shooting power forward ever, isn´t a no-brainer?

He made the NBA teams rethink about the power forward position as he starts his career. After his development as an offensive force, every team was watching for the next Nowitzki. He definitely changed the game at his position. And what´s the point with this silly phrase "if his Mavs blow it again, all bets are off". Why do they use other standards for him, as Iverson, Garnett and Nash also have no rings.

I don´t know what to say. What idiots!

TheBlueVan
03-31-2007, 03:43 PM
the sad thing is... its probably true

DOMINATOR
03-31-2007, 03:55 PM
why the heck is Garnett in over Nowitzki?
KG has been averaging 20pts 10rbs for 9 straight years. fourth straight season to lead the league in rebounds per game.
first player to average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists per game for 6 consecutive seasons. also first to reach at least 18,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 4,000 assists, 1,200 steals, and 1,500 blocks in his playing career.

with that being said. KG and Dirk both deserve to be in the hall of fame.

DevinHarriswillstart
03-31-2007, 04:20 PM
KG gets in purely on stats, just like Dirk gets in for being the best euro player ever and other things of course. KG hasn't been clutch but he is a master of overall stat lines more than almost any player in history. For ONLY that would I vote him in though.

Gotta give the guy credit for at least ditching Finley.

SaltwaterChaffy
03-31-2007, 04:55 PM
I actually have no quarrels with this list. Nash is certainly a lock at this point. Dirk is 99%, the only thing that could possibly keep him out is some weird unforseen xenophobia, but he'll be a lock with an MVP and a championship year.

I think Payton should be a lock for the HOF, not just an almost. His run during the 90s was absolutely incredible, and he should probably be considered among the 10 best point guards of all time.

nowhereman
03-31-2007, 05:07 PM
please. dirk was a lock 2 years ago.

SaltwaterChaffy
03-31-2007, 05:42 PM
please. dirk was a lock 2 years ago.

Meh. A guy who had a career average of 22.5 points and 8.5 rebounds (as of two years ago), and no Finals appearances doesn't sound like a lock to me. The only argument that really could be made for him 2 years ago is that he was the first European superstar.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
03-31-2007, 06:11 PM
I would say despite winning an MVP Kevin Garnett is less of a lock than Jason Kidd. Kidd is one of the 10 greatest point guards of all time and lead his team to two finals. Garnett has not been to a Finals, infact he has only had one playoff run past the first round. But Dominique Wilkins got in and didn't do much playoff damage either, so I put Garnett as a maybe.

I may get disagreements but I would put Allen Iverson as a maybe, not a lock.

None of the "bubble" players get in IMO, especially not Vince Carter..no way.

The rest on your list I agree with where they are.

SaltwaterChaffy
03-31-2007, 06:17 PM
As this article point out, history has shown that winning an MVP = Hall of Fame; Therefore, AI and Garnett are locks.

DOMINATOR
03-31-2007, 06:54 PM
well when rockets win the championship this year. Tmac and Deke are in :D :p

Stranger
03-31-2007, 07:18 PM
I don't disagree with the breakdown, but the "if the Mavs blow it again" comment is pretty gratuitous. The Hall won't penalize Karl Malone, Elgin Baylor, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, et al. for coming up short in the playoffs.

nowhereman
03-31-2007, 07:50 PM
80% of players that have been all NBA first team twice are in the NBA. 96% of players that have been all NBA first team 3+ times are in. Dirk has basically locked in his 3rd year in this category. And, along with Lebron, seems to be the frontrunner here for the next few years... unless the Mavs have a big dropoff in team success, which doesn't seem that forthcoming.

Nash wasn't even on the radar 2 years ago. it's remarkable how quickly his career has taken off. Dirk's been building the accolades over several years, and still has a few years in which he can make up ground. Something tells me that by the time he's 33, he's going to have put together one hell of a career :)

MavsX
04-01-2007, 12:03 AM
dirk will get his..

kingmalaki
04-01-2007, 12:37 AM
I don't disagree with the breakdown, but the "if the Mavs blow it again" comment is pretty gratuitous. The Hall won't penalize Karl Malone, Elgin Baylor, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, et al. for coming up short in the playoffs.

Sorry, but Dirk hasn't had a better career than any of those players. I don't think he is a lock for the Hall yet but his career isn't over and if he keeps putting up the numbers he is now he will get in.

dirno2000
04-01-2007, 12:46 AM
The basketball HOF is a joke anyway.

chumdawg
04-01-2007, 01:47 AM
The basketball HOF is a joke anyway.Kinda what I was thinking all along. It's not at all difficult to get into. And where in the world do they host it? Cooperstown and Canton come to mind as HoF sites, but I'm afraid that's it.

dirno2000
04-01-2007, 01:58 AM
Kinda what I was thinking all along. It's not at all difficult to get into. And where in the world do they host it? Cooperstown and Canton come to mind as HoF sites, but I'm afraid that's it.

Do you realize that there are more people in the basketball HOF in the Pro Football HOF? And if you include the 5 “teams” in the basketball HOF they’re tied with baseball. That’s pretty ridiculous considering you can only play five at a time.

The basketball HOF is full of women, foreigners and "contributors".

So Dirk will be a lock by that time he retires but all that means is that he gets to join the likes of Cheryl Miller, Dave Gavitt and Aleksandr Gomelsky

Lor20
04-01-2007, 03:03 AM
Its partially the mavs fault that everyone else says that everything below the ring is "blowing it". The mavs keep saying it and the media has bought into it now and has the same expectations. i dont think any other team would say just reaching the finals and then losing would be "blowing it".
so on one hand - them not getting the ring is blowing it and on the other a lot of them have other teams as favorites. somehow that doesnt make a lot of sense to me

nowhereman
04-01-2007, 03:47 AM
it's a basketball hall of fame, not an NBA hall of fame..
of course it's going to have more members than a hall devoted to a specific league.

plus, with 5 players on a team at a time, there's a lot more onus on the players, and more direct correlation in team success and the performance of a specific personality. By extension, i think that makes induction into the basketball hall more of a validation of a philosophy, a team, and even a generation of basketball compared with the other HOF's. While obviously this hall doesn't have as much mystique as the MLB or Pro Football hall, it's still a considerable honor.

dirno2000
04-01-2007, 02:18 PM
it's a basketball hall of fame, not an NBA hall of fame..
of course it's going to have more members than a hall devoted to a specific league.

I realize this but I think it cheapens it.

plus, with 5 players on a team at a time, there's a lot more onus on the players, and more direct correlation in team success and the performance of a specific personality. By extension, i think that makes induction into the basketball hall more of a validation of a philosophy, a team, and even a generation of basketball compared with the other HOF's.

I agree with your general premise here. My point is who cares that you were the best Russian player in the 70's if and NBA journeyman would have wiped the floor with you? Who cares if you were the best women’s basketball player in the 80's when you couldn't have even played D1 mens basketball? And do you really need 74 coaches, 54 contributors and 12 referees?

Maybe it's just me but when I think HOF I think best of the best.

At the very least there should be a separate NBA/ABA wing.