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Hales233
04-04-2001, 07:35 PM
I'm really sick of some people on this board not appreciating what Michael Finley has done for this franchise. He has stuck with the Mavs in the worst of times and never once grumbled or asked to be traded. Then I see in another thread that somebody referred to Finley as a "solid player". Give me a damn break. That's ridiculous. Michael Finley is an ALL-STAR, and you should treat him as such. Yes, younger players like Dirk may have more upside but don't ever forget how much Finley means to this team.

I know most of you respect Mike, this is just for those who don't.

Mavinator
04-04-2001, 07:41 PM
Damned straight...

TheKid
04-05-2001, 09:39 AM
I hear you Hales, it's what I've been saying all along. Look how he has been playing as of late, he has been fantastic. He's the catalyst, I'm not hearing this stuff about the team going as Nash goes, it's goes as Finley goes. Can't WAIT until the playoffs start.

horserangler
04-05-2001, 01:48 PM
I am thinking Finley will be a monster in the playoffs.His leadership will really show there.

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 02:20 PM
the only reason i said that finley was a solid player, not great, was because i reserve the "great" label for people that are heading for the hall of fame or are playing at that level. no, finley isn't headed to the hall of fame. no, dirk probably isn't. both players are special..both players are instrumental. right now, finpoodle has the slightly better all around game. there's little doubt that dirk will have the better all around game in the near future. i'm not saying dirk is great, i'm not saying finley is great. michael jordan, shaq, hakeem...they are great.. they are hall of famers, so i feel it is appropriate to call them great.

should this maverick team be called great because they are in the playoffs? NO...they are a solid team. the lakers of the 80's and the bulls of the early and mid nineties are great. therefore, is finley a great player? a guy that will be an all star 3-4 times in his career? No, but he's damned close. when he's great enough to ever be considered one of the elite players of all time, get back with me ..and maybe then i'll call him great..same for dirk. but until then . MICHAEL FINLEY IS A SOLID PLAYER

The Crippler
04-05-2001, 02:45 PM
i think this is interesting, but one clarification...if fin makes the all star team next year, it will be his 3rd time, and since you said "is finley a great player? a guy that will be an all star 3-4 times in his career? No, but he's damned close."...will that make him a great player in your eyes? According to your statement, it does.

You are right, fans throw out the term "great" too often. But it's all relative. I guess I could catagorize GOOD players in 3 ways...superstars, great players, and solid players. With that standard set IN MY EYES, i would definately say finley is "great". You see, it all depends on each persons measure of ability. There is no set guideline to say whether or not a player is "great" or "solid". So everyone is right in their own eyes, and wrong in others (lam's).

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 03:09 PM
what is wrong with saying someone is very solid? yes, it is relative to how someone rates them in their own eyes. in my eyes, i'll call him great by the standards i set forth in my earlier post.
yes, crippler, i understand the way you classify greatness..and that's fine. that's your standards. and my standards are my own. it's not something we should argue about.
i think finpoodle is better than 85% of the players in the league. does that mean he's great? not in my eyes. sorry....kiss my a*s if you have a problem with it. but, you'd have to be a moron to get upset with me for saying that he's a very solid player, in the top 15% of all players in the NBA. that's nothing but complimentary.

remember crippler, i was the one that this initial post was directed towards. because i said he's a very solid player, i was chastised. all i was doing was clarifying my standards for greatness. and as you agree, everyone has their own opinion to how to classify greatness.
as i've said, finley...a top 15% player, very solid. what the hell is wrong with that?

The Crippler
04-05-2001, 03:11 PM
i was actually taking up for you, man. are you too defensive to see it?

djb
04-05-2001, 03:12 PM
Your definition of "solid" is what some consider as "great." So when you keep insisting that Fin's not great, those who don't share your same definition of greatness get annoyed. Just my .02

The Crippler
04-05-2001, 03:19 PM
and now that you've decided to tell me to kiss your a$s, why don't you answer my first question about 3 all star appearances...in your eyes that's "great" right?.

LonestarROB
04-05-2001, 03:20 PM
I don't think I would consider Finley as a "great" player. He is very good, but lacks the 1-on-1 skills IMO to be considered "great".

And that's a fact i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif .

djb
04-05-2001, 03:22 PM
I think Finley's GOOD. Is that ok? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

LonestarROB
04-05-2001, 03:24 PM
NO! he's Very good. Your wrong again DJ i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif .

djb
04-05-2001, 03:24 PM
Nah I think he's just pretty good - hehehe

Hales233
04-05-2001, 03:24 PM
since people differ on what "great" is defined as, let's all just agree he is much better than "solid."

djb
04-05-2001, 03:26 PM
Hales, you're about to incur the wrath of LAM00 i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 03:38 PM
"therefore, is finley a great player? a guy that will be an all star 3-4 times in his career? No, but he's damned close"

that is a quote from what i said. i said that finley is a guy that will be an all-star 3-4 times. and, in my eyes, that doesn't make him great.

crippler, i know you were taking my side, and i appreciate it
thank you..you're such a nice guy
and pj, the reason i went off was because the initial post was directed towards me. get with it,please, thanks

TheKid
04-05-2001, 03:42 PM
Well say what you want about the man, IMO he's great. I've watched him since he was with Phoenix and for those who say he has added nothing to his game, you're crazy. He's great, give him his props. Solid, in my opinion Bradley is solid. So if you're saying Fin is as good as Bradley then you're TRULY having problems today.

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 03:53 PM
bradley plays solid occassionally.
in my opinion, finley is a top 15% player...very solid. well above average, borderline greatness...just not quite... IN MY OPINION. so stay off of my ass just because you don't agree with how i issue the word "great"

Mavrix
04-05-2001, 03:54 PM
I definitely dont think "great" is overly generous... he may not make the All-star team every year for the next 10 years, but i think his play the past couple of seasons, coupled with his leadership and tenacity when things have been rough have separated him from merely "solid" players... to me, that implies somebody that goes to work day-in, day-out, and does a consistently decent job, nothing above and beyond the call of duty... in the end, i guess it just comes down to whatever your definition is, but in my dictionary, fin's pic can be found next to "great"...

dallaslaker
04-05-2001, 04:01 PM
LAM, how would you classify Finley's play over the last month? Just curious, because I agree that he is not a superstar on the level of MJ. However, I've seen glimpes over the last several (specifically on the road trip) where Finley has absolutely REFUSED to lose. This is exactly the trait that Jordan had. You can see this is their facial expressions when they play. He is simply thinking that "there is no way I'm letting us lose tonight. If it takes me putting everything on my back and carrying them, then that's what I'm gonna do." This is the attitude that I like.

Dirk does not have the attitude yet. I think this comes with age and experience. I think Finley has reached the point where he has the supporting cast to really have an exceptional team and now he is saying "alright, let's take it to the next level."

Kind of interesting, but I see this in Howard as well. I saw this in a previous game (forget which one), but Bradley was going off on a ref, I know it's hard to imagine, and Howard got in his face and told him to chill out because we need you on the court and we don't need to give up a free throw.

I would classify Finley as the Heart and Soul of this team and all of the others playing better by his example. In summary...

good - hell yeah
very good - you bet
great - like you said, very close and pushing the greatness barrier
superstar - let's win one and you can be Dallas' newest superstar

TheKid
04-05-2001, 04:03 PM
You call it how you see it Lam, I call it how it is. There aren't many great players in the league this year, but Finley SURELY is one of them!!!! I don't care what you say or if you think I'm kissing his ass, but HE'S GREAT!!!!!! That's the MAJORITY opinion!!!!

dallaslaker
04-05-2001, 04:12 PM
Quote from LAM, "finley's leadership and heart have affected the mavs". Just finished reading the posts that got all of this crap started. No need to answer my question above as your quote does.

I say move on to more interesting topic like....

how far in the playoffs are we going?
or
is the combination of Bradley, Booth, and Nowitski going to shut down Duncan and Robinson?

Mavinator
04-05-2001, 04:43 PM
Actually, in purely mathematical terms, being one of 24 all-stars, many undeserving, automatically puts Finley in the top 5% of the league....

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 11:03 PM
depends....do you think that the top 24 players in the NBA made the all-star team?

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 11:06 PM
the majority of the people posting cannot think on their own either. they fail to formulate their own opinions..just what they get off of a talkshow, from someone else, or from the newspaper. i can't help that the majority of the people in this world aren't very smart. if you want to be a part of that majority, go ahead.
the majority of the people have an iq of 106 or less.....i'm sure they will welcome you to that club.

scooterj5
04-06-2001, 01:55 AM
Umm Fin rocks

LAM0015
04-06-2001, 07:07 AM
i'll stand by my first opinion and go with top 15%

TheKid
04-06-2001, 07:25 AM
You see Lam, there you go. I'm fine when you leave it to basketball opinions. While I may not agree with you, I don't care, it's your opinion about BASKETBALL. Now you get into the bashing of people saying the "majority" of people can't form their own opinions. That's why you got the e-mail you did from people. I'm not going to be upset by that comment because I can form my own opinion. Because you don't agree with it, means NOTHING to me. I don't care if no one wants to agree with me. I all ready see I'm alone in the fact that I'm saying you take Fin off this team they don't make the playoffs. Now the more I think about it, you take Dirk off, you have to put in someone just as capable of a scorer which means another all-star so I'll have to retract a little on that one, but Nash, I'm sorry, I don't care what any of you say we could have done it with out him. Granted he has played OUTSTANDING this year and arguably is the most improved player in the NBA this year, HOWEVER I think his contribution to the team can be found elsewhere. Sorry just my opinion.

MavsFanFinley
04-06-2001, 11:37 AM
Im with you KID, I think you take Finley off this team, we make no playoffs. I think you take Dirk off this team, it's a toss up depending on if Howard would be considered his replacement and with us from the beginning. You take Nash off this team and we still make the playoffs.

LAMCHOP, Im really starting to wonder if your here just to piss people off. How is it when you say something it's always fact? Or that were suppose follow suit because you say so? But, when someone else says something it's not even considered an opinion? Because you don't agree with it? You've really turned this board to shit, sorry DJ because I think you have something going here. LAM don't tell me I can't think for myself or form my own opinion, ok? And don't tell me Im kissing Finley's ass because I recognize what he is and what he is to this team. Cause if Im doing that, then your riding Dirk's dick. Cause that's all you talk about, Dirk is this, Dirk is that. Without Dirk, we would be this. If it wasn't for Dirk. Look at Dirk's stats, see how better he is than Finley. Finley never passes to Dirk. Then after you do all that, it's Finley is never this, never that. Finley will never be this, never that. And it just goes on and on. And THEN, after that you tell the rest of that we can't think for ourselves, form our own opinions, etc...What bullshit is this? That's fine that me and you never agree, could I give a flying shit about you disagreeing with me? NO. And don't try to come back at me, it flows off me the things you have to say to me. But, I draw the line with you telling me and others that we can't form our own opinions, think for ourselves and that we're stupid when it comes to basketball knowledge.

Sorry DJ, but something needed to be said here. I aim no disrespect towards you or your board.

LAM0015
04-06-2001, 12:12 PM
the problem is..is that half of the people that post do not realize that their are other people that are virtually as important as finley. i've said repeatedly that finley is still probably the most important player on this team but that most of the people that post on this board have their heads up his ass that they don't realize that other people are almost as important or almost as good of a player. and i'm proud of you mavsfinleyfan, you developed your opinion..it's a start. keep working at it and you might get over the 106 mark.

i do think the mavs squeak into the playoffs without nash, but i don't think they are in this position without him. that's obvious..good job. no, they probably don't make it without dirk. no, they probably don't make it without finpoodle. apparently you don't watch the games very closely if you think otherwise. watch the games...look up some stats...it'll help

and dallaslaker, for the majority of the last month..i would classify dirk's and fin's play as outstanding...., but please, don't put fin in jordan's class...you're insulting basketball when you do that. WHERE YOU'RE CONFUSED IS THAT WHERE YOU STATED THAT OTHER PLAYERS ARE PLAYING BETTER BY FIN'S EXAMPLE. DIRK IS PLAYING BETTER THIS YEAR BECAUSE HE'S BEEN IN THE NBA A WHILE NOW...AND HE'S MORE TALENTED THAN FINLEY. THAT'S WHY DIRK'S GETTING BETTER. YES, DIRK AND FINPOODLE DO MAKE EACH OTHER BETTER, BUT DIRK IS A YOUNG AND DEVELOPING PLAYER THAT HAS NOW STEPPED INTO HIS OWN. THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE COUNTRY, HE IS REGARDED AS A GOOD OR ALMOST AS GOOD OF A PLAYER FIN. THANK YOU.

LOVE YOUR SHOW

TheKid
04-06-2001, 02:15 PM
MavsFan, very well put. I hear EXACTLY where you're coming from.

The Crippler
04-06-2001, 02:42 PM
wow lam, you might need to chance icons again. you might look for a Jesus icon, because you sure are getting crusified right now. Not to mention you think you are Him.

LAM0015
04-06-2001, 02:50 PM
actually, a couple of friends went to the game with me last night...they are both ..or were both timberwolves fans. the first thing one of them asked me was "do juwan and finley have a love fest going on or something, because they only pass the ball to each other".
my response was....well, we can't get into that on this board.

MavsFanFinley
04-06-2001, 10:20 PM
LAMCHOP, I don't have my head up my ass, so I wouldn't say it again. How old are you, 12? Grow up already.

Oh, nice comment from your made up friends about Fin and Howard. And you call us idiots. What a joke. At least Fin passes the ball, I do believe he averagaes more assists than Dirk. Im not sure as my IQ hasn't passed the 106 mark yet but, at least, I've started to form my own opinions. It's so nice of you to say so.

And please refresh my memory on the rules of the NBA. I missed the page # and the paragraph where it says that Fin is suppose to pass to the open Dirk all the time. And please do tell us with lesser knowledge than yourself who Fin passed the ball to before Howard came aboard.

Thanks, it's reallly appreciated.

ReggieThetaChi
04-07-2001, 09:12 PM
Yeah, that is pretty sheisty coming up in here and pissing people off. I've been a Finley fan since I saw him play in Hoop Dreams (remember the game that they played Peoria Manual? Yeah, that was him). But, Finley is the man on this team, and as Finley goes, the mavs go. Tonights game againts the Jazz is an indicator of that. Finley scores only 9, Dallas loses. People need to consider what we have here with Finley, probably the most underappreciated player in the NBA considering what he has done in Dallas. But, he was also underappreciated when he was in Phoenix and finished 4th in the Rookie of the Year voting. But, as long as the Mavs keep winning, he's happy. And that is what I admire most about him.

TheKid
04-09-2001, 08:32 AM
Regg,

Great observation, and another thing that shows his underappreciation. The funny part is that year that he was drafted number 21 of the draft. Two years ago of all the people that was drafted before him, he averaged more points, than all of them. Last year and this year, Stackhouse was the only player to average more points than him of his class that was drafted with him. Funny isn't it? There were several shooting guards taken in that draft, but yup, Fin sure is just a "solid" player.

Flying Tiger
04-09-2001, 11:10 PM
He is underappreciated! But not by the fans. The fans appreciated him enough to put him in the all-star game 2 straight years. Other teams underestimate him. 20 teams passed up on him. Including Chicago, his home town. But I think that other teams would try to double or something, but the Mavs have too many weapons, which makes that impossible.

TheKid
04-10-2001, 08:41 AM
Actually it's the coaches who voted him in the all-star game, but the fans do seem to appreciate him though.