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View Full Version : kevin garnett is officially going to the boston celtics.


antoinewalker
07-30-2007, 05:46 PM
this was just reported on espn sportscenter. expect a link soon from the espn website.

antoinewalker
07-30-2007, 05:47 PM
here is a link from yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au1VjtJKdcGPfXdXcAHpMXu8vLYF?slug=ap-celtics-garnetttrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

ty
07-30-2007, 05:59 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2007-07-30-garnett-celtics_N.htm

me770706
07-30-2007, 07:03 PM
cant complain, we had no realistic shot and at least he's not going to LA or Phoenix

Mavs Rule
07-30-2007, 07:12 PM
This just vaulted the Celts to the NBA Finals vs the Mavs, IMO.

Janett_Reno
07-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Very good for both teams but i would have made Boston take Thud Hudson. He sux and he makes a ton. Mn doesn't make the playoffs with Garnett and they won't make it now but if you move Garnett and Thudley, look at what you free up to build. Now in 2 to 3 years, if they keep drafting good and play the young good taent they have, then in a few years with Orlando, these two teams could be the best. McHale can't make more bonehead deals. The downfall for MN, will the fans pay to watch a young like D-League team now and support them?

With Garnett, it was about Garnett. He is a great player but he was stuck with McHale and no help and McHale was stuck with Garnett and no help for Kevin.

Now Danny Ainge puts up or shuts up. No excuse if this team is healthy as it should be from a 1 to 4 finish in the east. Now pressure turns to the Cavs to get Mike Bibby. Detroit needs to try to retain Webber. Miami must get younger, replace a Kapono, and Smush Parker i don't see helping much. Orlando is a tough match up.

I know it will make the MN fans very mad at this trade but they was stuck in a hole. Give Hudson away for a 6 pack and play these young players and get experience for 2 years down the road and then make the playoffs.

rabbitproof
07-30-2007, 07:20 PM
Good for the C's fans...

dude1394
07-30-2007, 07:25 PM
so garnett's threat to opt-out wasn't such a threat after all?

antoinewalker
07-30-2007, 07:36 PM
the celtics gave up all of their youth but this is a trade they had to make in my opinion. they already traded for ray allen but he alone wasn't going to catapult their team to contending status. they needed another solid veteran and with kg, they get that and much more.

i think this trade instantly makes the celtics a contender in the eastern conference but their lack of a bench may shine come playoff time.

Evilmav2
07-30-2007, 07:40 PM
so garnett's threat to opt-out wasn't such a threat after all?

I'd bet that the Celtics acquisition of Allen, in addition to a good sales job on the part of Ainge & co, probably changed Garnett's mind about the desirability of playing in beantown, and ultimately, I'd guess that's why we saw the deal finally go down today...

antoinewalker
07-30-2007, 07:52 PM
they have a solid starting 5. rajon rondo will be a great point guard in the league. he averaged 3.8 apg last year in only 23 minutes a game. considering he was a rookie last year, those are very promising numbers.

i said earlier that the celtics' lack of a bench may hurt them come playoff time but if lebron james and all the crap he has on his team made it to the finals last year, i find it very believable that the celtics will be there next year.

kingmalaki
07-30-2007, 08:00 PM
Gotta see what the do with their bench but if those those 3 stay healthy I don't see why they can't contend in the East. Hell, I would expect them to win the East...depending on how the Heat come back from all their injuries.

Either way this trade is good for the Celtics and the league in general. The East needs some teams that can really contend....

Hitman
07-30-2007, 08:04 PM
At the very least, this makes the Eastern Conference more interesting.

I know KG, Pierce and Allen will be high on my NBA league pass priority list next season.

Should be fun. Looking forward to the season.

SeattleMavsFan
07-30-2007, 08:52 PM
wow that is one heck of a team. that's 3 superstars in my opinion. They will definately be tough to beat next year.

Dirkenstien
07-30-2007, 09:04 PM
Wow. What a difference one offseason makes.

From least to beast, Boston is for real this season.

ty
07-30-2007, 09:07 PM
All three clutch players.

Flacolaco
07-30-2007, 09:12 PM
Any reaction from the Phoenix news papers? ;)

MavsX
07-30-2007, 09:41 PM
fine with me, better than phx or LA

Male30Dan
07-30-2007, 09:56 PM
Oh thank God Phoenix didn't get him!!!

Tokey41
07-30-2007, 10:35 PM
Congrats to C's fans, they will be a threat for a couple years now. Personally I think the Allen move was terrible (he's gonna be spent either this season or next), but it did land them Garnett (i'm assuming) so they will have an excellent shot at the finals... especially in the east... for a few seasons. Then again if Allen declines drastically this season will KG stick around after his contract is done? Or will they force him to an extension beforehand? A couple aging stars is better than none I guess.

purplefrog
07-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Celtics acquire Garnett for five players, two picks
THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER
07/31/2007

In a trade that will shift the balance of power in the NBA's Eastern Conference next season, the Boston Celtics finally acquired 10-time All-Star forward Kevin Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves on Monday in exchange for forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, center Theo Ratliff and guard Sebastian Telfair, as well as two future first-round draft picks.

The trade had been discussed for months and was nearly consummated on draft night in June. But the talks stalled when Garnett indicated he was not interested in playing for Boston and would opt out of his contract — which has two years and $45 million remaining — after next season.

The Celtics then suspended talks with Minnesota and turned elsewhere, acquiring veteran guard Ray Allen from Seattle on draft night for a package that included the fifth overall pick. With Allen in the fold alongside fellow All-Star Paul Pierce, Garnett became intrigued about playing in Boston, and the talks picked up.

"The conversation never stopped" after the draft, said a source with knowledge of the talks.

The 31-year-old Garnett is expected to get a multiyear contract extension from Boston as part of the deal.

But Garnett, along with Allen and Pierce, would make the Celtics, a moribund franchise for most of the last 15 years, one of the teams to beat in the Eastern Conference.

The 6-foot-11 Garnett's career averages of 20.5 points, 11.4 rebounds and 4.5 assists will dovetail nicely with Allen's 21.5 career scoring average and Pierce's 23.6 scoring average, giving Boston a terrific inside-out presence and providing Garnett with the best pair of teammates he has played with in his 12-year career.

purplefrog
07-31-2007, 12:13 AM
I was pretty close to predicting a similar trade to this a few months back. I think I suggested the Celtics would trade a bunch of their young players and their first round draft pick for Jason Terry. Terry... Garnett... basically the same quality of player.:rolleyes:

alby
07-31-2007, 04:19 AM
Another team jumping us =]

SaltwaterChaffy
07-31-2007, 04:31 AM
I wouldn't be worried about the Celtics passing us. They are going to have initial chemistry problems, they have absolutely no depth, an unproven point guard, and a terrible coach. a year from now, I'll be worried about them.

dude1394
07-31-2007, 08:35 AM
Another team jumping us =]

Coming from nothing, they made the right move rolling the dice. I still am not convinced that giving up josh/devin/diop would have been worth it.

foglemann
07-31-2007, 09:06 AM
So, since this is the domino we were all waiting for, now what. Do we have a realistic shot at Kobe or any other high profile player that could be available? Can we add a real sized 2 guard? These are the questions that now can be answered.

Ricky Davis would seem like a bargin guy now, he will not want to be one the JV T'pups squad. Possible S & T with Cro?

Good move for both teams BTW

mqywaaah
07-31-2007, 09:30 AM
Atleast he didnt go to Phoenix. Man! Can you just imagine how PHX would be if they did? Geesh thank god! As for the Celts, good to know that they might give the Detroit some competition as contenders in the East.

Dirkadirkastan
07-31-2007, 10:17 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a team of Pierce, Allen, and Garnett looks like a window of opportunity that is rapidly closing?

DelNegro
07-31-2007, 10:25 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a team of Pierce, Allen, and Garnett looks like a window of opportunity that is rapidly closing?

No. But if you're the Celtics and have been completely irrelevant for the better part of two decades maybe a 4-6 year window of being competitive is worth it.

nikeball
07-31-2007, 11:14 AM
doc rivers will screw this up and bill simmons will be livid

Dr.Zoidberg
07-31-2007, 12:01 PM
Trade Kicker 101: Lots of math involved in a KG megadeal

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/Stein_Marc_55.jpg (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=marc_stein&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz)
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Updated: July 30, 2007

As we inch closer to a real, live Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3007) trade, you will hear and read more about the trade bonus in Garnett's contract -- more commonly known as a trade kicker -- and how it factors into Minnesota's forthcoming deal with Boston.

The following four-step breakdown dissects the trade-kicker specifics involved here and some of the other math variables tied to this megadeal.

But first some background: A good deal of this knowledge comes from ESPN.com capologist/Trade Machine maestro Nick Silva and our dear friend Larry Coon. Professor Coon not only has a handy knack for distilling salary-cap complexities into understandable English while running one of the best Web sites known to man -- his NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm) -- but also is a former student and teacher at the prestigious Titan Tech ... which is more commonly known as Cal State Fullerton.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0515/nba_g_kg_195.jpg
Melissa Majchrzak/NBAE/Getty Images
Yup, dealing Kevin Garnett is complicated on many levels.

On to the breakdown:

1. Garnett only has a limited ability to waive his trade kicker. He can't just waive it to make a trade easier -- even if he wanted to -- no matter what you've heard or read. The rules state that Garnett only can waive the amount necessary to make a deal legal based on salary-cap rules.

So how would this work in real life?

Garnett's salary for next season is $22 million and the trade kicker is $6.75 million, meaning that Boston would have to accommodate $28.75 million in salary and send out at least $22.92 million in a trade if Garnett is to receive the full bonus.

But the latest incarnation of the trade is believed to include the following five Celtics for a total of $18,921,547: Al Jefferson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3832), Theo Ratliff (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3020), Gerald Green (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3944), Sebastian Telfair (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3830) and Ryan Gomes (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3976). If no other Celtics are added to the deal, Boston could only take back $23,751,934 in salary, meaning Garnett would have to consent to waiving nearly $5 million of his trade kicker … $4,998,066 to be exact.

Garnett's take-home trade bonus would thus be reduced to $1,751,934. But the assumption is that he would more than make that back in the long-term extension he's expected to receive from the Celtics as part of this extravaganza.

2. Garnett is one of only a handful of current players whose trade kicker causes such havoc.

The league's most recent labor agreement stipulates that a trade kicker cannot raise a player's salary above the maximum salary allowed. Yet players such as Garnett, who were signed prior to the 2005-06 season, have seen their contracts grandfathered in and are not subject to this restriction.

The problem is that a language error in the new agreement made grandfathered players like Garnett -- as well as Kobe Bryant (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3118), Dirk Nowitzki (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3252) and a few others -- technically untradeable. This necessitated an amendment which stipulates that such players can be traded, with the player's full trade kicker applied to the trade and waived only in the circumstances explained in No. 1.

League officials, I'm told, preferred putting Garnett and Co. in position to collect their full trade bonus as opposed to giving them what would amount to no-trade authority. This way the teams retain more control and can always choose not to do a trade if they don't want to pay the bonus.

3. If a Garnett trade had been completed before July 1, Garnett's trade kicker would have been charged in equal amounts to Boston's payroll last season and next season at $3.375 million each. Completing the deal after July 1 requires Boston to charge the entire $6.75 million to its 2007-08 payroll.

That's one big reason why trading for Garnett after the draft became a virtual impossibility for the Phoenix Suns (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho).

Phoenix, sources say, was Garnett's preferred destination if he had to leave the only team he has ever played for, but the Suns wanted to complete a deal without getting deeper in luxury-tax purgatory …and without surrendering Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3607).

Yet since the Suns are over the luxury-tax threshold, even after shedding Kurt Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3012)' contract, they'd have to pay $13.5 million just for Garnett's trade kicker, without even accounting for his salary or the assets they'd have to give up to get KG.

While the salary-cap math in a hypothetical KG-to-Phoenix deal might have allowed Garnett to waive some of his trade bonus and thus make things a little more palatable, the most likely scenarios after July 1 would have had the Suns incurring astronomical costs to make this happen.

The Celtics, by contrast, will only stray into luxury-tax territory after adding Garnett, but sources say Celtics ownership is comfortable doing so for a player of Garnett's stature.

4. The longest extension Garnett can sign with the Celtics is a four-year deal. Garnett has two seasons left on his current contract and the total -- contract plus extension -- can't exceed six years.

Sparing you all the complicated calculations, side restrictions involved here and unknowns about where the salary cap will be in July 2009, Coon contends that the most lucrative extension Garnett could sign is a four-year package worth an estimated $116 million.

Trust me: You won't get a more bankable figure than that.
Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033).

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=TradeKicker101)

alby
07-31-2007, 12:28 PM
Ray Allen - 32 years old
Kevin Garnett - 31 years old
Paul Pierce - 29 years old

what a team.

alby
07-31-2007, 12:33 PM
Reggie Miller played until he was 40 - so I wouldn't be too worried about Allen
Centers last a long time in this league - so don't think Garnett is done already
29 years old is still considered a prime year - so Pierce is far away from having his window closed

However, between the three--they are in for 60 million worth of payroll per year..
hitting the luxury tax with three players is killer

alby
07-31-2007, 12:34 PM
latest news has Boston keeping Gerald Green and sending out two first rounders instead

Green would vastly help their depth

Dr.Zoidberg
07-31-2007, 12:50 PM
Ainge still scoring for Suns

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 31, 2007 12:00 AM

We've decided that Danny Aingehas taken the same philosophy he had as a player to the front office of the Boston Celtics:

Keep firing, and eventually something will go through.

And it appears after all his errant attempts to fix the Celtics, he finally might have connected on a Kevin Garnetttrade.

Reports were rampant that the Celtics and Minnesota Timberwolves have reached terms on a deal that will send Garnett to Boston for a package that will include at least five players - including forward Al Jefferson- and a first-round draft pick.

Earlier, talks between the two clubs had fallen apart reportedly because Garnett has an option out of his contract after next season and wasn't especially interested in playing for the Celtics.

Then Ainge landed Ray Allenin a trade with Seattle.

So the idea of joining Allen and Paul Piercein the watered-down Eastern Conference must have appealed to the Big Ticket.

The deal is expected to be accompanied by an announcement that Garnett has agreed to a contract extension with the Celtics.

Now, if you were in the camp that thought that the Suns would be crazy to change their core to acquire Garnett, you are celebrating.

And if you were in the camp that thought that the Suns ought to do whatever it took to get Garnett, you should still be celebrating.

That's because if the Suns weren't going to get him, they sure didn't want him falling into the hands of the Lakers, Warriors or - heaven forbid - Dallas Mavericks.

Our spies tell us that was exactly what the Suns were worried about, and Dallas was a much bigger concern than anybody realized.

There is a downside, however. The Mavericks might still be in the market for yet another big man.

Or they just might feel compelled to make certain that the Suns - having jettisoned Kurt Thomasfor luxury-tax relief - do not replace him with anybody of quality.

Either way, they could submarine the Suns' effort to sign free agentP.J. Brown. At the right price, he would make a nice replacement for Thomas.

But with Dallas out of the Garnett picture, the Mavericks might feel inclined to overpay for Brown.

We don't know where that would leave the Suns, other than continuing a search for "a big man" that has lasted nearly four decades.

Anyway, since draft night, the Celtics have gone from a lottery team overloaded with young players that nobody in Boston cared about to a club with three aging but very talented stars that should contend in the Eastern Conference.

Suddenly, the Celtics are relevant again.

And to think Ainge bamboozled his old Celtics buddy Kevin McHaleto do it.

As Ainge liked to say when he was hoisting three-pointers for the Suns:

"Conscience of a rattlesnake."

Link (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0731p2main0731.html)

Flacolaco
07-31-2007, 01:03 PM
That's coming from a paranoid Suns reporter.

I'm not buying any of that.

alby
07-31-2007, 01:03 PM
please don't overpay for PJ

mkat
07-31-2007, 02:10 PM
No. But if you're the Celtics and have been completely irrelevant for the better part of two decades maybe a 4-6 year window of being competitive is worth it.

i don't know if they've even 4-6 years....

Dtownsfinest
07-31-2007, 02:35 PM
Damn. I think the Celtics are the only team in the NBA with 3 superstars on their team. Celtics went from looking like a complete mess to looking like one championship contenders all in one offseason. Great move for them. I think the T-Wolves did decent. I would've wanted Rondo in on the deal as well. Al Jefferson is going to be a beast. I think he has the potential to be one of the best power fowards in the league when he's fully developed. I imagine that's probably what held the deal up for so long is that Ainge didn't want to give him up. Celtics have absolutely no youth at all now but at the same time they have 3 superstars who are all in the 30 year old range. They have atleast 4 years left together. If Robert Parish can play until he's 42 I think KG can play atleast 4 more years at a high level.

craggmac
07-31-2007, 03:00 PM
Oh yea, Celts are back!! Way to go Danny Ainge.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l170/craggmac/kg.jpg

DelNegro
07-31-2007, 03:06 PM
i don't know if they've even 4-6 years....

Assuming all three stay relatively healthy I'd say that's a championship caliber core for at least 4 years. Allen's 32, KG 31, Pierce 29. I know all have missed some games the last couple years with injuries, but I just have a funny feeling that the collective health of all 3 will be much improved now that they are on a team with loftier goals than maximizing ping pong balls.

bobatundi
07-31-2007, 03:29 PM
I think Pierce will turn 30 before the season starts.

Michael Finley is only 34, and he stopped being a "superstar" 3-4 years ago. I think Boston's window is very tight here--they've given up a lot of their youth & future draft picks, and any hope of cap room any time soon.

On a different note, Minnesota should pick up a nice trade exception from this--think they'd want some more players, i.e., Buckner & DJ, or does the fact that they just acquired 5 guys in this deal make that moot?

DelNegro
07-31-2007, 03:42 PM
I think Pierce will turn 30 before the season starts.

Michael Finley is only 34, and he stopped being a "superstar" 3-4 years ago. I think Boston's window is very tight here--they've given up a lot of their youth & future draft picks, and any hope of cap room any time soon.

True, but that team is about KG. As long as he can play at the level he's at now they can handle any declines in Pierce or Allen.

On a different note, Minnesota should pick up a nice trade exception from this--think they'd want some more players, i.e., Buckner & DJ, or does the fact that they just acquired 5 guys in this deal make that moot?

Hard to say. Buckner's essentially an older version of Trenton Hassell, so I doubt they'd want him. Mbenga's a possibility though.

Dim499
07-31-2007, 04:11 PM
The important thing about this deal is that Dirk Nowitzki will finally have a chance to be an Allstar game starter next year, depending on what Melo and Amare do next season.

alby
07-31-2007, 09:43 PM
I hope we get a superstar to team up with Dirk.

foglemann
07-31-2007, 10:01 PM
Ray Allen? Whoops
Paul Pierce? Whoops
KG? Whoops

Ah, anybody left?

alby
07-31-2007, 11:02 PM
kobe
jermaine
gasol

antoinewalker
07-31-2007, 11:10 PM
i wonder why garnett is wearing #5. is #21 retired or something?

alby
07-31-2007, 11:50 PM
because #5 is clean.

alby
07-31-2007, 11:52 PM
BOSTON CELTICS
00 Robert Parish
1 Walter Brown
2 Red Auerbach
3 Dennis Johnson
6 Bill Russell
10 Jo Jo White
14 Bob Cousy
15 Tom Heinsohn
16 Satch Sanders
17 John Havlicek
18 Dave Cowens
19 Don Nelson
21 Bill Sharman
22 Ed Macauley
23 Frank Ramsey
24 Sam Jones
25 K.C. Jones
31 Cedric Maxwell
32 Kevin McHale
33 Larry Bird
35 Reggie Lewis

Stranger
08-01-2007, 06:59 AM
True, but that team is about KG. As long as he can play at the level he's at now they can handle any declines in Pierce or Allen.


There's no way they compete for 4-6 years. A 30 year old KG couldn't get a poor Minnesota team to the playoffs. A 35 year old KG won't be able to carry the team if Allen and Pierce decline.

DelNegro
08-01-2007, 08:56 AM
There's no way they compete for 4-6 years. A 30 year old KG couldn't get a poor Minnesota team to the playoffs. A 35 year old KG won't be able to carry the team if Allen and Pierce decline.

Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

Flacolaco
08-01-2007, 09:19 AM
I didn't realize that KG has only ever won a playoff series one time.

What a waste of his best years up there. I would almost feel sorry for the guy if he didn't have all that money.

dude1394
08-01-2007, 09:34 AM
Well the NBA has finally managed to find a way to get Garnett in the playoffs.

1st - Moved Minnesota into the NorthWest conference away from Dallas, Spurs, Phoenix, Lakers....That worked out a little bit but then as expected UTAH/Denver passed 'em up.

2nd- Last chance.. Move him to the pathetic eastern conference. If he can't make the playoffs now, fuggedaboutit.

Dirkenstien
08-01-2007, 10:05 AM
I'm a bit worried. In the NBA Finals who really wants to be looking at Pierce, Ray Allen, and Keving Garnett on the side of the court?

With these moves they become competitive for the next 3-6 years. When Dirk starts declining will we really have that much longer? Howard really isn't that much younger qnd aside from Harris' potential we don't have any future stars to help carry the load.

I'm just getting the feeling that we will need to add another star-caliber player to the mix to be hold an advantage on the big stage.

Big Boy Laroux
08-01-2007, 10:34 AM
I didn't realize that KG has only ever won a playoff series one time.

What a waste of his best years up there. I would almost feel sorry for the guy if he didn't have all that money.

well, that year, he made it to the western finals. So he's won 2 playoff series, albeit both in the same year.

Usually Lurkin
08-01-2007, 10:45 AM
I'm just getting the feeling that we will need to add another star-caliber player to the mix to be hold an advantage on the big stage.
me too. The Mavs, though, seem bent on the "we're good enough as long as our competitors get worse" approach to improvement. I do wonder how much the mavs might have had to do with keeping KG out of Phoenix.

jleefilled
08-01-2007, 11:14 AM
I'm a bit worried. In the NBA Finals who really wants to be looking at Pierce, Ray Allen, and Keving Garnett on the side of the court?

This is both a scary thought and likely reality for any team that comes out of the West.

I don't think the Mavs need to necessarily get a second star, but I'm hoping -- and to some degree, expecting -- to see them do more than sign Bass and Fazekas this off-season.

alby
08-01-2007, 11:46 AM
This is both a scary thought and likely reality for any team that comes out of the West.

I don't think the Mavs need to necessarily get a second star, but I'm hoping -- and to some degree, expecting -- to see them do more than sign Bass and Fazekas this off-season.

The summer has been in a failure thus far, not being able to add a second star to team up with Dirk.

jleefilled
08-01-2007, 12:03 PM
The summer has been in a failure thus far, not being able to add a second star to team up with Dirk.

We talked about this, man. The Mavs should have traded for Zach Randolph. ;)

Dirkgreatness
08-01-2007, 12:15 PM
So does this mean the Celtics are KG's team now?

dirt_dobber
08-01-2007, 01:14 PM
Now that the balance of power in the East has shifted
do the Cavs need to add a player like Bibby to keep up.

Me thinks yes!

alby
08-01-2007, 01:51 PM
or Nets adding Jermaine?

foglemann
08-01-2007, 01:55 PM
me too. The Mavs, though, seem bent on the "we're good enough as long as our competitors get worse" approach to improvement. I do wonder how much the mavs might have had to do with keeping KG out of Phoenix.

To true Lurkin. Reminds me of Jon Daniels comments with BaD Radio this past offseason where he said that since the other teams in the AL West didn't improve much, they didn't feel the need to do anything drastic. I feel our team is good, but 67 wins doesn't mean much. You have to remind yourself that each season is a new one and has nothing to do with the last. BUT, seems like Avery, Donnie, and Cuban don't see it that way.

Flacolaco
08-01-2007, 01:58 PM
Vegas seems to think the Mavs have the best odds to win it all next year.

Between Avery, Donnie, and the MGM Grand, that's good enough for me.

alby
08-01-2007, 02:10 PM
Vegas seems to think the Mavs have the best odds to win it all next year.

Between Avery, Donnie, and the MGM Grand, that's good enough for me.

trade JET

Stranger
08-01-2007, 02:11 PM
Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

You are forgetting Devin, who is younger than Howard. However, I do not think the Mavs have a 4-6 year window by any means. I don't necessarily expect them to really be competing for a championship if they don't win it in the next three years.

I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.

Flacolaco
08-01-2007, 03:18 PM
You are forgetting Devin, who is younger than Howard. However, I do not think the Mavs have a 4-6 year window by any means. I don't necessarily expect them to really be competing for a championship if they don't win it in the next three years.

I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.


Do you get the horrible feeling that TD is capable of proving you wrong?

kingmalaki
08-01-2007, 07:38 PM
I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31. Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

[/quote]And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.[/QUOTE]

Yeah they will be super thin, but how deep do you really have to be in the East? They have 3 stars and just need role players to hit open shots and play defense. Were the Cavs really a deep team?

alby
08-01-2007, 08:08 PM
Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31. Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.

Yeah they will be super thin, but how deep do you really have to be in the East? They have 3 stars and just need role players to hit open shots and play defense. Were the Cavs really a deep team?

kingmalaki for the win

alby
08-01-2007, 08:10 PM
having two superstars on one team was pretty normal back in the 80s

as the league added more franchises, the teams and the talent became watered down.

having three superstars on one team today is the definition of being stacked.
its equal to having four maybe even five legitimate stars during the magic/bird days, crazy.

although, this team scares the hell out of me--don't give them the title yet, the suns have had a stacked roster for the last 3 years and they don't have a ring to show for it yet so who knows (although I don't count Marion as a superstar).

Tokey41
08-01-2007, 10:57 PM
Can anyone name an SG that didn't decline after hitting the age Allen is at now other than Reggie Miller? Simmons is feeling good baout having Garnett now but before that took place he was about to have a stroke thinking about how badly Allen's game is going to deline either this year or the next. History doesn't lie, Celtics fans should be praying that Allen has one good year left to grasp for a title.

On top of that... the Celtics are paper thin! The logical thing to do here is try and coast through the regular season just enough to get into the playoffs and then unleash hell with the big three. They shouldn't try to be #1 for a full 82 game schedule, especially when their only 3 weapons are that old.

mkat
08-01-2007, 11:09 PM
Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

yeah, i'd say they do. especially if they keep having off seasons like this one.

Stranger
08-02-2007, 07:24 AM
Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31.

Of course his team got worse as they aged. The Celtics will do the same.

Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

Don't forget the ages we are talking about here. The limit was 4-6 years. In that time, KG will be between 35-37, Pierce will be 34-36, and Ray Allen will be 36-38. The highest age you've cited is 34.

The logical thing to do here is try and coast through the regular season just enough to get into the playoffs and then unleash hell with the big three. They shouldn't try to be #1 for a full 82 game schedule, especially when their only 3 weapons are that old.

It's really hard to win without home court advantage, even when you've got great stars. Look at the Heat this year. I know Hakeem did it, but it isn't common. If they rest their guys during the regular season, they are going to be relying on big contributions from minimum-salaried players, and that simply won't get it done.

kingmalaki
08-02-2007, 11:34 PM
Of course his team got worse as they aged. The Celtics will do the same.

The Lakers entire core got old at the same time, and they replaced their second best player (Kareem) with a rookie. Not to mention all the extra games played because they went to the Finals 8 times in the 80's. Yet Magic still got them to the Finals at 31.

Don't forget the ages we are talking about here. The limit was 4-6 years. In that time, KG will be between 35-37, Pierce will be 34-36, and Ray Allen will be 36-38. The highest age you've cited is 34.

But all of those players are under 34 for the next season or two. I think their window will probably decrease as each year passes, but maybe not...since I would expect them to be active in the free agent game, and I would expect players to want to play there.

It's really hard to win without home court advantage, even when you've got great stars. Look at the Heat this year. I know Hakeem did it, but it isn't common. If they rest their guys during the regular season, they are going to be relying on big contributions from minimum-salaried players, and that simply won't get it done.

Great teams don't need homecourt. The Cavs didn't have homecourt this year. The Heat didn't have it last year. Y'all didn't have it last year when you beat SA. Y'all had it this year. Etc....

I'm not saying I expect Boston to win a title because SA and Pho have a big three as well, supported by a better supporting cast. But I really don't see why they can't come out of the East...and anything can happen in the Finals.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
08-10-2007, 09:03 AM
According to the Boston Globe, Billups, one of Kevin Garnett's good friends, helped sway the big man to join him in the Eastern Conference. Garnett sought counsel from two of his closest friends in the NBA, Billups and the Hawks' Tyronn Lue while contemplating the move from Minnesota to Boston. At first Garnett did not want to leave Minnesota but in the end realized a trade would be best for the Timberwolves and his own future. Detroit Free Press

Lue told the Globe: "I talked to KG and it was tough at first because he's so loyal to Minnesota, his family, friends, and the fans. All he knew was Minnesota for the last 12 years. I thought Boston would be a great situation, a perfect situation with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. I thought automatically they'd be in the Eastern Conference finals with KG. He thought about it and asked, 'You think so?' I said, 'Yeah.' "Then, Chauncey came out and said, 'You have to take the best thing for you and that's playing in Boston, even though we'd be in the same conference and play four times a year.' We definitely convinced him to choose Boston because two great players were already in place. Adding KG and being in the Eastern Conference, it'd be easier to win. "Then, KG asked me, 'What about the city?' I said, 'You don't go out anyway, so it doesn't matter. You don't go out of the house. You could play in Alaska.' He's like, 'Yeah, you're right.' " Detroit Free Press