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Dr.Zoidberg
08-22-2007, 09:56 AM
Kawakami: Nelson and the Warriors, on and on it goes
By Tim Kawakami
Mercury News Sports Columnist
Article Launched: 08/22/2007 01:35:27 AM PDT

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2007/0822/20070822__kawakami22~1_Viewer.JPG (http://www.mercurynews.com/portlet/article/html/render_gallery.jsp?articleId=6686220&siteId=568&startImage=1)
Don Nelson barks out calls during the first quarter of game six of the NBA Playoffs... ( ANDA CHU )

Don Nelson wants to be happy, the Warriors want to make him happy, and yet here they still stand, mutually unhappy and staring into the dark void.

Is this long, strange renegotiation standoff between coach and franchise about money? Yes, it's always about money. About $5.1 million in guaranteed money over the next two seasons, as far as I can decipher.

But it's also about the root motivations and personal histories of both Nelson, the master strategist and fearsome poker player, and owner Chris Cohan, who has made his fair share of mistakes and has paid dear money for them.

The latest on the talks: Nelson is telling friends that he's upset with the Warriors' most recent proposal and that the next week or so could be the tipping point.

Is he serious enough to stay away from training camp in October? Many people familiar with Nelson note that he would be walking away from millions if he quit, and Nelson has no history of monetary sacrifice.

Still, he is a man of pride, and now that the negotiations have come this far, it might be foolish for the Warriors to call Nelson's bluff.

It's almost September. Who exactly would the Warriors get to coach this team, rebuilt to Nelson's exotic but successful specifications, if it's not Nelson?

"All is quiet on the Western front," Nelson's lawyer, John O'Connor, said Tuesday when asked about the state of talks. O'Connor had no further comment; Warriors President Robert

Rowell also declined to comment on the negotiations.

Are the Warriors dug in? They've made what they believe is a generous upgrade on an existing deal, which would raise Nelson's average salary into the top 10 for NBA coaches.

Cohan has no eagerness to go much further on the guarantees, according to several sources, after paying off a series of failed coaches and watching Nelson begin to maneuver for a new deal the day after last season ended.

Multiple sources confirmed Tuesday that Warriors management has offered to raise Nelson's base salary from $3.1 million to $5.1 million for the coming season. That's agreeable to the Nelson camp.

Nelson was paid $3.1 million in base money last season and earned an additional $2 million in bonuses for making the playoffs and winning a round; he had the same schedule for 2007-2008.

But the Warriors' offer is also believed to change the guaranteed $3.1 million for 2008-2009 (the final year under his original deal) into a non-guaranteed team option for $5.1 million. That's potentially a deal-breaker for Nelson, who has little desire to work without the assurance of a contract for 2008-09, and might announce a retirement or request a leave of absence if he doesn't receive a deal to his liking.

In plain terms, the Warriors are offering Nelson more cash in the short term, but less guaranteed money than he was due to receive.

Remember, Nelson is under contract, and he signed it only a year ago. The Warriors have no moral or legal burden to give him any more money.

But the NBA world, and this particular market, is not about legalities. Specifically, this situation is about Nelson and Cohan, two flawed men who probably deserve each other if they can stand each other in the process.

Cohan needs Nelson, whom he fired once before, because Nelson's coaching was essential for a franchise that had lingered in squalor for 12 playoff-free seasons before Chris Mullin persuaded Cohan to bring back Nelson.

Nelson needs Cohan because he loves the Bay Area, loves coaching this team, and because the Warriors' raucous playoff run last spring burnished his Hall of Fame credentials; Nelson needs Cohan because nobody else was stepping up to hire him a year ago.

Of course, the two men knew all this - all the weaknesses and strengths of the situation - before they re-consummated their relationship last August. They had been through this, and Nelson went through it with New York and Dallas after that.

Nelson can point to the rush of new season-ticket purchases for this season and to the payroll savings he helped orchestrate. Indeed, the Warriors have never been healthier in a fiscal sense, thanks to Nelson.

Cohan can point to his good intentions - he has offered to increase Nelson's salary this season, he has remained quiet while Nelson played out this game of possible retirement and quiet protest.

Cohan and Nelson. Nelson and Cohan. For one season at least, it all meshed into one of the most fascinating playoff runs in recent NBA history.

Will it continue to a second season? We'll find out in the next few weeks. I'm guessing that Nelson will get a little more money out of Cohan, grit his teeth and, out of some loyalty to Mullin, come back to coach the Warriors. But before Nelson makes that decision, he'll stare into the void. And you just never know what he might do.

Link (http://www.mercurynews.com/timkawakami/ci_6686220)

Flacolaco
08-22-2007, 10:06 AM
Drama queen

MavsFanFinley
08-22-2007, 10:41 AM
I can't see him leaving. The Warriors would be stupid to let him walk. Not when Nelson got them to the playoffs after so many years.

Silk Smoov
08-22-2007, 10:42 AM
Drama queen

I have to jump on board with the lil joke as well with the BillUps situation......Even though I was on the butt end. ;)


The Warriors were never in the Don Nelson race!!! ;) ;) ;) ;)

chumdawg
08-22-2007, 01:00 PM
Pay heem. Pay that man his money.

Jack.Kerr
08-22-2007, 01:14 PM
Never thought I'd be saying this, but Nelson is making Larry Brown look loyal.

Only word for Nelson now is WHORE.

I hope the Warriors fire him.

Dirkadirkastan
08-22-2007, 06:08 PM
Pay heem. Pay that man his money.

It's not his money until the team agrees to pay it to him.

I don't think Nelson has figured that out yet either.

alby
08-22-2007, 06:11 PM
Nelson is a great coach, maybe top 20 of all time but being in the NBA business for so long, he should know how it works. The owner is the one that writes his paycheck not the other way around.

DevinFuture
08-22-2007, 06:13 PM
Nelson is a great coach, maybe top 20 of all time but being in the NBA business for so long, he should know how it works. The owner is the one that writes his paycheck not the other way around.

I think what he really wants is a contract from an NBA team to pay him to lounge in Hawaii.

alby
08-22-2007, 06:17 PM
He should just vouch for an NBA team in Honululu

chumdawg
08-22-2007, 06:23 PM
It's not his money until the team agrees to pay it to him.

I don't think Nelson has figured that out yet either.Oh, it's his money alright. It's definitely his money.

Silk Smoov
08-22-2007, 07:02 PM
I think what he really wants is a contract from an NBA team to pay him to lounge in Hawaii.

This is exactly what T.O. did with the Eagles after the first year. It was wrong then, and wrong now. Nellie signed a contract and now wants to re-neg. Does this sound familiar? Yes, it does.

Darth Ape
08-22-2007, 08:22 PM
It's not his money until the team agrees to pay it to him.

I don't think Nelson has figured that out yet either.
Most of the time this is true, unless the team is run by Mark Cuban. Then it doesn't matter if the owner has agreed to pay. It's only your money when the check clears the bank.

Mavdog
08-22-2007, 08:32 PM
cohan has his back to the wall. even if he agrees to pay nelson the money, nelson has shown that he can't be relied on to actually fulfill his part of the deal.

odds are that next year nelson spend as many days sitting in a bar in maui as he actually works in oakland.

or worse yet, showing up in oakland and not even trying. sound familiar?

Flacolaco
08-22-2007, 08:50 PM
I don't understand why people can't just honor their contracts that they signed in the first place.

If you don't like the deal, don't sign it.

Dirkadirkastan
08-22-2007, 09:16 PM
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1536/nelsonxw2.jpg

"My pot belly's proud of itself!"

xenonvisions
08-22-2007, 09:26 PM
nelson aint leaving..hes gonna whine until the season starts and scare gs by tellin them hes leavin...

you really think hes going to leave after he ripped dallas a new one

dude1394
08-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Pay heem. Pay that man his money.

Hmm...now wonder nelsons suing cuban, he thinks that his money is money he wasn't promised.

So it appears that the owner is already getting the bad end of the PR stick with nelson. It sorta seems to happen wherever nellie goes, someone owes him more money.

dude1394
08-22-2007, 09:44 PM
nelson aint leaving..hes gonna whine until the season starts and scare gs by tellin them hes leavin...

you really think hes going to leave after he ripped dallas a new one

As the author said, he won't leave money on the table, unless he thinks he can sue it out of them later. I expect he'll just tank it. As mavie says, it does sound familiar.

chumdawg
08-22-2007, 09:49 PM
Hmm...now wonder nelsons suing cuban, he thinks that his money is money he wasn't promised.

So it appears that the owner is already getting the bad end of the PR stick with nelson. It sorta seems to happen wherever nellie goes, someone owes him more money.It's simple negotiation tactics. Nellie wants a raise, and he feels he has the leverage to get one. (Exactly as I'm sure Avery Johnson felt when he got his.) It's standard operating procedure in the NBA, as well as other pro sports and other businesses. Let's not paint Nellie as any different than Avery or all the other guys who have been in his shoes.

bernardos70
08-23-2007, 01:46 AM
Earned it or not, Cuban paid Avery his money with way less ado than this. That is to say, he did pay the coach he believed was the best coach for the team without a lot of fuss. And he clearly didn't pay nelson when he didn't think he was the right coach for the job. It is awfully clear Nelson is the man for the job in Oakland, he's the only logical option. Yet, the owner doesn't wanna pony up. Guess the owners can't all be like Mark when it comes to ponying up for the right guy.

chumdawg
08-23-2007, 02:09 AM
Not exactly, Bernie. Cuban paid Nellie the going rate, as the right man for the job, for many years. He's paying Johnson near that now.

However, when you say:

"Guess the owners can't all be like Mark when it comes to ponying up for the right guy."

I can't help but snicker. There's a certain point-guard right-man-for-the-job who is cashing his checks off a different account these days.

Pirate
08-23-2007, 05:56 AM
Nellie's "entitled" to whatever he can negotiate for using the leverage of "public perception." It's called playing hardball. And since Nellie started it, Cohan's just as entitled to play the same game in return, and laugh in his face while calling his bluff. The contract is already signed, and Cohan can keep him out of the NBA entirely and send him out to permanent pasture if he doesn't honor it. Who will blink first? (Since Cohan has already had a prior experience with Nellie to learn his ways, I bet he'll make out just fine in this situation.)

dude1394
08-23-2007, 08:42 AM
Agreed pirate. What is a recurring theme is that nellies contract negotiations get thrown out into the media trying to pressure management.

Good thing most players have more class than that or that's all we'd hear about.

Male30Dan
08-23-2007, 08:51 AM
Pay heem. Pay that man his money.

Great movie...

bernardos70
08-23-2007, 12:07 PM
Not exactly, Bernie. Cuban paid Nellie the going rate, as the right man for the job, for many years. He's paying Johnson near that now.

However, when you say:

"Guess the owners can't all be like Mark when it comes to ponying up for the right guy."

I can't help but snicker. There's a certain point-guard right-man-for-the-job who is cashing his checks off a different account these days.

Cuban clearly had a pretty bad judgement on that one. Go ahead and paint me naive but I don't think Cuban thought he was the right man for the job....... or he'd have ponied up the dough.

And Cuban paid Avery what Avery wanted because he thought he was the right man for the job. And he didn't bitch about it. In fact, he renewed his contract ahead of time.

DevinFuture
08-23-2007, 12:11 PM
And he didn't bitch about it. In fact, he renewed his contract ahead of time.

Not to invalidate your whole point by any means, but I believe Cuban did bitch about it.
He made a blog entry at the time slamming employees who demand more money from their boss after they've agreed to a contract. He wrote that if you agree to the contract you are already agreeing to perform as good as you can and that subsequent performance should not be grounds for demanding a better contract.

Edit: While he didn't refer to Avery or even basketball, I thought it was clear why he wrote the entry based on the timing.

Silk Smoov
08-23-2007, 12:14 PM
Agreed pirate. What is a recurring theme is that nellies contract negotiations get thrown out into the media trying to pressure management.

Good thing most players have more class than that or that's all we'd hear about.

I think the word "THROWN" is a severe understatement. I think Nellie's PR person throws out press releases on this stuff. LMAO....

purplefrog
08-23-2007, 01:26 PM
I grew tired of Nellie's negotiation tactics and use of the press many years ago.
When he comes to town as your head coach he's like that new friend who is at first entertaining and fun to be around only to later become the person who consistently overstays their welcome and you wish would go home.

MavsX
08-23-2007, 09:56 PM
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1536/nelsonxw2.jpg

"My pot belly's proud of itself!"


holy shit! That is gross. Nice work on finding that picture....oh my god..i think i just threw up in my mouth

chumdawg
08-23-2007, 10:53 PM
What are you talking about? That is a sweet freakin' belly, dude. When you get to be 65, you will wish your ass you had a belly like that, half of Hawaii, and tens of millions in the bank!

Dirkadirkastan
08-23-2007, 11:05 PM
What are you talking about? That is a sweet freakin' belly, dude. When you get to be 65, you will wish your ass you had a belly like that, half of Hawaii, and tens of millions in the bank!

1) Oh my god, Chum even likes Nelson's gut.

2) Apparently those 'millions' aren't enough to make the guy any happier.

DevinFuture
08-23-2007, 11:10 PM
looks like Nellie has an outtie

chumdawg
08-23-2007, 11:20 PM
1) Oh my god, Chum even likes Nelson's gut.

2) Apparently those 'millions' aren't enough to make the guy any happier.Whatever do you mean? I bet the guy is as happy as you yourself could possibly imagine.

Jack.Kerr
08-24-2007, 12:30 PM
looks like Nellie has an outtie

That may only be lint.

Usually Lurkin
08-24-2007, 01:08 PM
looks like Nellie has an outtie
it's where he keeps a can of bud

Stranger
08-24-2007, 04:15 PM
Is Nellie doing an erotic dance in that picture?

Stranger
08-24-2007, 04:16 PM
Whatever do you mean? I bet the guy is as happy as you yourself could possibly imagine.

This reminds me of that thread where people used those hyperbolic Chuck Norris lines to describe Nellie.

"Nellie is so happy that the sun rises every morning just to bask in his light."

Stranger
08-24-2007, 04:19 PM
"Don Nelson is so happy that the Bluebird of Happiness visits him when it's feeling a little down."

Usually Lurkin
08-24-2007, 07:49 PM
Don Nelson is so happy, posies are committing suicide and unicorns are starting to stab rainbows out of feelings of uselessness.

DevinFuture
08-24-2007, 08:01 PM
Don Nelson is so happy, he makes Stimpy from Ren & Stimpy look like Marvin from Hitchhiker's Guide.

Dr.Zoidberg
08-30-2007, 07:17 AM
Nellie deserves more cash, but repeat performance won't be easy

http://images.sportsline.com/images/author/3928.jpg

Aug. 27, 2007
By Tony Mejia (http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/writers/mejia)
CBSSports.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion! (http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/writers/mejia)

Even as he's contemplating walking away from coaching again, it's nice to see Don Nelson is still dropping knowledge on his players. The latest lesson in crafty Nellie's handbook instructs his guys on the virtues of taking full advantage of leverage.

When you have it, you better use it. When you don't, you end up like Mickael Pietrus (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/400567). That noise you hear is Baron Davis (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/139059), Monta Ellis (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/555941) and Andris Biedrins (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/498273) furiously taking notes.

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/basketball/nba/img10320225.jpg
Don Nelson wants a $2 million raise for the upcoming season. (Getty Images)

Nelson wants more money to return as Golden State's (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/teams/page/GS) head coach and is going to get it. He'll get it on his terms, maybe as early as this week. Entering the second year of a three-year deal, he wants a raise of $2 million for the coming season and an additional $5.1 million guaranteed for 2008-09.

The Warriors have agreed to the raise, but want the wiggle room to hold the option on picking up Nelson's contract at that inflated rate. The 67-year-old Nelson isn't buying. He knows he's holding all the cards and doesn't need to budge. He delivered Jessica Alba.

Alba attended Warriors games religiously just a few months ago, and it was Nelson's coaching that drew her there among the masses of other fans that embraced a perennial loser gone straight. Not only did Golden State make the playoffs, it became the story of them.

The excitement generated still resonates. You can close your eyes and see Oracle Arena rocking, the color yellow everywhere, and because of that, the extra green Nelson is asking for is merited. He's being smart, capitalizing on the team's popularity while he can.

Love affairs are known to go south, in particular with Nelson and his employers.

Realistically, it's going to be difficult for him to top last season. The Warriors were headed for another sub-.500 finish before getting everyone healthy and winning nine of their last 10 games. Then they dismantled Dallas, a team they matched up with favorably. They captured everyone's imagination so thoroughly that you wonder whether they haven't already peaked, putting together a single month that won't be replicated by anything other than a championship run.

Is that something this team realistically has in them? Golden State could become an imposing force even in the mighty Pacific, but there's also the chance that things go the other way.

Brandan Wright might become the perfect big man for the franchise, but he won't be more productive than Jason Richardson would've been. There's no way to guarantee that Davis will stay healthy, or that Stephen Jackson won't get complacent.

Right now, you don't even know if Pietrus will be back, because his lack of leverage has put him in the type of compromising position Nelson is right to want to avoid. The Warriors have offered Pietrus only the one-year qualifying offer that allows them to match any team's offer, but haven't had to guarantee anything long term, denying the French swingman the job security he covets. He's unhappy, but he's just a victim of circumstances likely to have a new address by this time next year.

In contrast, Nelson can sit back in Hawaii and wait for things to play out, safe in the knowledge that he's doing the right thing in scrounging up a little extra for the retirement fund.

He deserves the money, too, because he's set the bar higher than it would've originally would've been entering the second year of his deal. The Warriors are still an underdog, but now that we've seen what they can accomplish, he'll be subjected to greater criticism if he fails.

Fans in the Bay Area only know they want the show they saw last spring, and know it doesn't really work without Nelson. Not bringing him back would significantly affect the team's positive momentum, and you can't do that to a loyal base that has supported the team through a playoff drought that spanned 12 years.

You can't make Jessica frown.

Nelson knows this, and he'll reap the benefits as a result.

Ideally, Davis, Ellis and Biedrins will too.

If Davis has a strong season, and playing in Nelson's system gives him the best opportunity to put up eye-popping numbers, he has the option to get out of his contract and secure his future with greater leverage than he normally would given his injury history. Should his body cooperate for the next few months, Golden State will almost have no choice but to bank that he can stay healthy.

Ellis and Biedrins, who thrive getting up and down the floor and have tremendous upside, are still playing on rookie contracts. Both will be looking to get paid, and should be able to follow Nelson to the bank.

Business is best when you're winning, but the Warriors are finding out that success does come at a greater price.

Link (http://cbs.sportsline.com/print/nba/story/10320243)

EricaLubarsky
08-30-2007, 07:26 AM
I want a job where I am promised a good income no matter what and if the company does better I can ask for way more.

SeriousSummer
08-30-2007, 08:38 AM
I want a job where I am promised a good income no matter what and if the company does better I can ask for way more.

Oh, you want to be the CEO of a fortune five hundred company. that's even better, because even when the company does worse than expected, you can still get an enormous bonus.

Further, if you manage to do so terrible a job they have to let you go, then you get paid even more to go away!

This is America, a capitalist society. Don Nelson understands that, and more power to him.

jacktruth
08-30-2007, 08:45 AM
I want a job where I am promised a good income no matter what and if the company does better I can ask for way more.
Sounds like you need to get into a union.

Dirkadirkastan
08-30-2007, 09:43 AM
The Warriors are still an underdog, but now that we've seen what they can accomplish, he'll be subjected to greater criticism if he fails.
If they win 25 games this year, Chum and Ape will give him all the credit for every win, and blame others for the 57 losses.
a loyal base that has supported the team through a playoff drought that spanned 12 years.
Pffft.

Jack.Kerr
08-30-2007, 12:59 PM
Nelson does NOT deserve the money Cohan pulled him off the NBA scrap heap when practically nobody else was willing to give him a job. And after this year, the market for Nelson's hocus-pocus trashketball style of play will be even less. Nelson is selling smoke in San Francisco and he knows it. Cohan should hold the line. Those fair-weather fans will leave when they realize the huckster can't repeat the trick.

u2sarajevo
08-30-2007, 01:51 PM
Cohan pulled him off the NBA scrap heap when practically nobody else was willing to give him a job.http://www.farfromneutral.com/exodus/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/o_rly.jpg

dude1394
09-07-2007, 11:07 PM
Hattip: lmf http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/lmf/vpost?id=2140113

This guy knows nelson well.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/warriors/ci_6825614

t's no surprise Nelson has his grubby hands out. The one thing he does better than coach is chase a buck. He doesn't stop until his tongue hangs out, never minding that his untempered greed has affected more than a few relationships. Nelson is a brilliant, even diabolical, strategist equally adept at squeezing every ounce from flawed teams and desperate owners. To be anything more he would have to win a championship.

So here we are, 24 days before the Warriors are scheduled to open camp, and the coach is firmly entrenched in business mode. Demand for his work is high, and he is no mood to sacrifice, not even for good buddy Chris Mullin.Which puts Warriors owner Chris Cohan in a prickly — and predictable — fix. He surely knows Nelson well enough to have anticipated this predicament. There were money grabs last time Nelson was in Oakland, as was the case in New York and then Dallas.

While I believe Nelson would get over leaving Mully 10 minutes to find a replacement, I doubt he could live with seeing that kind of loot float away.
Heh..

It's almost insignificant that Nelson fired the first shot, using his final news conference of the season to point out extreme fatigue, his bulging belly, his spirited battle with gout and the difficulty with deciding whether, at age 67, he wanted to put himself through another year of coaching.

chumdawg
09-08-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm guessing that the same people who love Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will roast Nellie for the same.

dude1394
09-08-2007, 12:15 AM
I'm guessing that the same people who love Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will roast Nellie for the same.

weak chum.

Flacolaco
09-08-2007, 12:40 AM
Trying to run a business = Trying to improve upon a contract that you already signed?

Underdog
09-08-2007, 07:03 AM
I'm guessing that the same people who love Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will roast Nellie for the same.


I'm guessing that the same people who hate Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will defend Nellie for the same.

dude1394
09-08-2007, 09:19 AM
I'm guessing that the same people who hate Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will defend Nellie for the same.

badda-bing.

alby
09-08-2007, 12:53 PM
I'm guessing that the same people who hate Cuban's ruthlessness with the dollar will defend Nellie for the same.

lol nice

dirt_dobber
09-08-2007, 07:54 PM
Nelson update: Ball is in w's court
By Geoff Lepper
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_6837173

OAKLAND — The apparent logjam in renegotiations between the Warriors and coach Don Nelson has been broken, but progress is still coming very slowly even as the opening day for training camp looms on Oct. 2.

After being entrenched in a stalemate for weeks following the team's initial offer, Nelson's camp has come off its stance that all of the coach's 2008-09 salary be guaranteed in an attempt to resolve a situation the coach originally told the media would be settled by July 1.

The sides have talked several times this week in hopes of getting the framework for a deal done before the principals on either side — John O'Connor,

Nelson's lawyer, and team president Robert Rowell — head off on vacation.

However, the team is taking its time mulling over the counteroffer made by O'Connor in which at least $2 million would be guaranteed on the final year of the contract.

The Warriors had proposed a bump in Nelson's base pay from $3.1 million to $5.1 million over the next two seasons, but with the second year coming at the team's option, rather than being guaranteed money. That would effectively lessen Nelson's guaranteed payout by $1.1 million, a less-than-attractive option for someone who fought for years with the team over $1.56 million in salary after his first stint as Warriors coach ended acrimoniously.

O'Connor offered a compromise in which the coach would be guaranteed a partial payout if the team did not want him back in'08-'09. One source close to the negotiation pegged the total at $2 million even; another said it was worth "a couple million."

The ball is in the Warriors' court, and some sort of response will be necessary. Nelson, who could not be reached for comment, said he won't accept the team's first offer after being paid among the bottom half of the league's coaches while leading the Warriors back to the playoffs.

dude1394
09-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Nellie continues to just sour every organization he goes to.

chumdawg
09-08-2007, 09:54 PM
Nellie continues to just sour every organization he goes to.Oh, c'mon now, dude. That is not fair at all. First off, he hasn't soured the Warriors yet at all, and I'd bet the good chance is that he won't. He certainly didn't sour the Mavericks, since regardless what you think of him he did leave you a partly-trained young coach in his stead. (And I can't imagine you would want to give back the fun years he gave the fans.)

I guess the company line would be to say that as a Mavs fan you want to see Nellie gone for selfish interests, so that the Warriors won't give us a threat going forward. But you know what? The very Mavs themselves had a chance to get rid of Nellie and his Warriors last year, in that late regular season game, and what they did instead was lift their skirts and say come get some.

If the Mavs themselves didn't try to knock Nellie out of their playoffs, why should Mavs fans want to see him out next year?

u2sarajevo
09-08-2007, 11:03 PM
If the Mavs themselves didn't try to knock Nellie out of their playoffs, why should Mavs fans want to see him out next year?So chum.... are you legit anti-Mavericks now completely?

chumdawg
09-08-2007, 11:53 PM
So chum.... are you legit anti-Mavericks now completely?Geez, U2, has it come to that? You can't make a point without it being "getting a dig in?" I was very unhappy with the way the Mavs approached that GS regular season game last spring. I said as much early in the game thread. It made them look like scared little bitches, and I was afraid it would come back and bite them. (See, unlike the simple Nellie haters on this board, I am fully aware of what damage he can do, and I didn't want to see it done to our Mavs.) Then Avery actually carried out the full charade by starting small in Game One.

I don't find any joy at all in hoping my team manages to avoid a fight that last year they backed away from.

u2sarajevo
09-09-2007, 01:58 AM
So you are telling me that the Mavericks didn't try. They were intent on letting Nellie go on and knock them out of the playoffs. If you answer no, then yes that is a dig.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 02:06 AM
Of course they didn't try, against Golden State in that regular season game. You know that. They sat everyone with half a pulse.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, but I thought it was a cowardly maneuver, and more importantly, one that bit them in the ass. I didn't like it when my Mavericks did that.

What, you did?

Dirkadirkastan
09-09-2007, 02:53 AM
Avery should have tried going small in the regular season game instead of Game 1, that's for sure. Would have been a much better "playoff rehearsal" than the next game against Seattle.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 03:10 AM
Maybe Avery should have tried keeping his skirt on, whatever the strategy.

alby
09-09-2007, 03:14 AM
He's young, give him a chance. If he is unable to adjust in the playoffs again this year.. then I'll change my mind.

EricaLubarsky
09-09-2007, 03:20 AM
I honestly think that along with obvious team weaknesses, the biggest problem was that Avery had them looking at the horizon when they needed to look at every game and pace themselves.

alby
09-09-2007, 03:22 AM
But that is also one of his strengths, he seems to be so thirsty and so motivated to convince Dallas that they can be champions.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-09-2007, 04:27 AM
Woulda, coulda, shoulda...

dude1394
09-09-2007, 09:27 AM
Oh, c'mon now, dude. That is not fair at all. First off, he hasn't soured the Warriors yet at all, and I'd bet the good chance is that he won't. He certainly didn't sour the Mavericks, since regardless what you think of him he did leave you a partly-trained young coach in his stead. (And I can't imagine you would want to give back the fun years he gave the fans.)


Chum...sure he has, first golden state, then nyknicks.
With the mavs he was given every opportunity to be around the team and contribute as a senior statesman. Cubes did NOTHING but praise nellie and his contributions, giving him a cool million a year to show it. And then nellie has to publicly drag the remaining dollars out and sour the whole relationship. I'm not saying he doesn't have a case, but it sure does seem to follow him around.
Now golden state again.

I think you know my thoughts on nellie(the coach), I've defended him on this board for years. It wasn't until he quit on the team that I thought he needed to go and when he bought into that ridiculous AWalker "experiment". At that point it became apparent that nellie just doesn't believe in any kind of internal or long-term team development. He either gets bored or he can't pay attention to the small details that ultimately bring internal player improvment. Whatever, he looked like he needed to go. The results say that was the right answer.

Now he's pulling some of the same shenanigans in GS. His past seems to be his future.

dirt_dobber
09-09-2007, 02:20 PM
Unhappy Nellie headed to Hawaii
# Warrior coach might walk if team doesn't guarantee more money
By Geoff Lepper
http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_6844998

Article Launched: 09/09/2007 03:02:33 AM PDT

OAKLAND -- In the NBA, September is the time of year when players and coaches start to return from their off-season residences. At the Warriors' headquarters in Oakland, for example, a half dozen players have been spotted working out recently or are expected to arrive in the near future.

One critical piece, however, is heading in the opposite direction.

Coach Don Nelson, profoundly unhappy with the way his contract negotiations are going, plans on flying home to Hawaii after having spent several weeks in the Bay Area hoping to cement reworked details for the two years remaining on his deal. No date for his return to the islands has been specified.

"I've had some nice talks with Bobby (Rowell, the Warriors team president) in the last several weeks," said John O'Connor, Nelson's lawyer. "Nothing's happened, but I'm still personally hopeful. Nellie has grown discouraged, however, and is soon on his way back to his hammock in Maui."

So far, Nelson's attempt to renegotiate the remainder of the three-year deal he signed in August 2006 has resembled a high-stakes poker game for much of the summer. If that's true, this is his all-in moment.

Nelson would like to put pressure on the Warriors to move off their one and only offer. That proposal would increase Nelson's base salary per season from $3.1 million to $5.1 million, but it inserts a team option for the second and final season, meaning Nelson would face a decrease of $1.1 million in guaranteed money.

O'Connor responded this past week on behalf of the coach with a plan that would leave the team option in place for 2008-09 but would add a partial guarantee -- worth at least $2 million -- on that season's salary. Golden State officials are still mulling that offer, and while they show no urgency to accept it or make a counteroffer of their own, a hue and cry from Warriors season-ticket holders over Nelson's flight to the islands could force the team into action.

Sources in the Nelson camp have said for months that the emotional coach could easily decide to stay in Maui rather than return for another grueling NBA season at the age of 67. But one member of the Warriors organization said the coach unequivocally stated last month that he'd be back for the upcoming season.

If Nelson were to choose the hammock over the bench, the Warriors' options would be limited since training camp opens on Oct. 2. The obvious move would be to name current assistant Keith Smart -- whom Nelson anointed last season as a potential successor -- to the job.

There are some bigger names available. Jeff Van Gundy, fired by the Houston Rockets in May, is unemployed, but he would most likely require an outlay of $5 million or more. And he's never coached a team in the up-tempo style for which the Warriors' roster is constructed.

Larry Brown, a 2002 inductee into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame and like Nelson one of only five coaches to win more than 1,000 NBA games, is not a legitimate option, according to a team source.

Other possibilities include veterans Rudy Tomjanovich and Mike Fratello. An intriguing name would be Paul Silas, former coach of the Clippers, Cavaliers and, most importantly, the Hornets, where he developed a strong bond with Warriors star Baron Davis that remains intact to this day. Also, Silas' son, Stephen, is a current Warriors' assistant coach.

Dirkadirkastan
09-09-2007, 03:48 PM
Nelson's antics are like that of a hooker, who gives you the best sex you've ever had, and then dumps you on the side of the road and don't give a shit about you no more. Unless of course, you pay her more money...

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 05:33 PM
Nelson's antics are like that of a hooker, who gives you the best sex you've ever had, and then dumps you on the side of the road and don't give a shit about you no more. Unless of course, you pay her more money...What an extraordinarily weak analogy. Then again, I guess I can understand, since you probably started watching the Mavs about two years ago. If you had been around since even the late-90's, to witness the debacle that was the Mavericks franchise at that time, and then had the pleasure of enjoying Nelson's several-year-long magic trick of turning the franchise from a laughing stock into an elite...well, let's say that you would surely never let something so uninformed spew from your ungrateful mouth.

dirt_dobber
09-09-2007, 05:45 PM
Nelson did indeed help to rejuvenate the Mavs, everyone agrees with that. It is just that he is very self involved, gimmicky, lazy, whoreish with regard to his pay and in my opinion he quit on the Mavs. That is almost unforgivable as a die hard Mavs fan from Day 1 in 1980.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 06:27 PM
Nelson did indeed help to rejuvenate the Mavs, everyone agrees with that. It is just that he is very self involved, gimmicky, lazy, whoreish with regard to his pay and in my opinion he quit on the Mavs. That is almost unforgivable as a die hard Mavs fan from Day 1 in 1980.DD, do you not feel that Cuban undermined Nelson and the long-term plan he had for his team, when he refused to re-sign Nash?

jthig32
09-09-2007, 06:49 PM
DD, do you not feel that Cuban undermined Nelson and the long-term plan he had for his team, when he refused to re-sign Nash?

So one mistake (in the eyes of Nelson) by Cuban as a co-GM/Financial decision maker is enough to give Nelson the right to just up and quit, and you to not blame him?

Man, we should hold all our GM's and Coaches to such standards. Nellie would have been gone before he even got started for drafting Anstey.

For someone who likes to try and identify the young and "bandwagon" Mavs fans, your obcession with all things Nash and Nellie and your unwillingness to move on makes you look like even less of a fan, and perhaps even the worst kind of fan, one whose allegiances are split.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 06:54 PM
So one mistake (in the eyes of Nelson) by Cuban as a co-GM/Financial decision maker is enough to give Nelson the right to just up and quit, and you to not blame him?

Man, we should hold all our GM's and Coaches to such standards. Nellie would have been gone before he even got started for drafting Anstey.

For someone who likes to try and identify the young and "bandwagon" Mavs fans, your obcession with all things Nash and Nellie and your unwillingness to move on makes you look like even less of a fan, and perhaps even the worst kind of fan, one whose allegiances are split."One mistake"? Wow, that's quite a way to qualify it. I guess taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan was also "one mistake," in retrospect.

Lookit, when you have so few superstars per team as the NBA has, you have to be bat-shit crazy to make a mistake like that. It is "one mistake" that should rob you of all credibility.

The rest of your rant I can't comprehend, so I won't bother.

dude1394
09-09-2007, 07:38 PM
To think that Cubes would sabotauge his whole team to "undermine" nellie is just flat our ridiculous. Cubes could have fired neson for any reason whatsoever, not "undermine" him.

He "might" have made a mistake with nash, but thinking he did it to undermine nelson is tin-foil-hat territory.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 08:59 PM
Not if you believe that he thought undermining Nellie was a good idea. Which is what I think most reasonable people believe.

craggmac
09-09-2007, 10:34 PM
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1536/nelsonxw2.jpg

"My pot belly's proud of itself!"

My milkshake makes all the boys in the yard say,"Damn right, it's better than yours!"

jthig32
09-09-2007, 11:02 PM
"One mistake"? Wow, that's quite a way to qualify it. I guess taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan was also "one mistake," in retrospect.

Lookit, when you have so few superstars per team as the NBA has, you have to be bat-shit crazy to make a mistake like that. It is "one mistake" that should rob you of all credibility.

The rest of your rant I can't comprehend, so I won't bother.

You understand it, you just have no answer for it.

Whether or not it was a mistake has been argued a billion times. Claiming Cuban did it expressly to undermine Nellie is a new low for you, which is impressive, given the previous standard.

chumdawg
09-09-2007, 11:20 PM
You understand it, you just have no answer for it.

Whether or not it was a mistake has been argued a billion times. Claiming Cuban did it expressly to undermine Nellie is a new low for you, which is impressive, given the previous standard.A new low? Dear lord, that's been my claim all along,

As long as Nash is playing, the Mavs will never win a title. Sadly, it's true.

jthig32
09-09-2007, 11:25 PM
A new low? Dear lord, that's been my claim all along,

As long as Nash is playing, the Mavs will never win a title. Sadly, it's true.

Why, because of some "Curse of Nash"?

Because certainly it's not that the Suns are standing in our way. I hope that's not what you're claiming.

Who am I kidding, I know that's what you're claiming. But it's so ridiculous, sometimes I just try to pretend it's now what you think.

dude1394
09-10-2007, 12:00 AM
Not if you believe that he thought undermining Nellie was a good idea. Which is what I think most reasonable people believe.

What purpose could it serve "reasonable" person? If cubes wanted to get rid of nellie he would have just gotten rid of him.

Flacolaco
09-10-2007, 12:02 AM
It always amazes me how little Donnie Nelson* seems to come up in these Cuban vs Nellie wastes-of-time-we-call-discussions, as if he has nothing to do with all of this....

dude1394
09-10-2007, 12:30 AM
I know, he must have the greatest job in the world. He just hangs out at the ghost bar, buying drinks for folks and has no responsiblity. What a gig..

Dirkadirkastan
09-10-2007, 01:03 AM
As long as Nash is playing, the Mavs will never win a title. Sadly, it's true.

Giggle.

He sure stood in our way in '06. Man, if it weren't for him, we would have won the whole damn thing.

alby
09-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Donnie Nelson is one of the classiest guys working in professional sports.

The awesome thing about him is that he is awesome at his job as well.

DevinFuture
09-14-2007, 11:25 AM
Nellie was bluffing. He took the Warriors' offer making the second year a team option.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3019137
Restructured deal with Warriors offers Nelson raise

OAKLAND, Calif. -- Don Nelson has reached an agreement with the Golden State Warriors and will return to coach the team for at least one more season, the San Jose Mercury News reported.

Nelson, who led the Warriors to a first-round upset of the heavily favored Dallas Mavericks in last season's playoffs, accepted a restructuring of the remaining two years on his contract. His salary will increase to $5.1 million from $3.1 million, but the final season on the deal is now a team option rather than guaranteed money, according to the report.

"I'm excited to come back and coach the team," Nelson told the newspaper. "The Bay Area's perfect for us, I love working with [team executive vice president Chris Mullin], I love the staff. There's so many positives here."

Warriors team president Robert Rowell told the newspaper that a deal is close to being finalized.

"We are definitely rounding third base," Rowell said, according to the newspaper. "We obviously have some details to work out, but we feel strongly that this is moving in the direction we all want this to move."


Nelson said the deal also includes a clause that gives him a five-year consulting deal worth $1 million if the team chooses not to exercise the option for 2008-09.


"It's a gesture on our part to keep Don a part of the franchise, because we appreciate and respect what he's done for us and what he means to the Warriors," Rowell told the newspaper.

Flacolaco
09-14-2007, 12:19 PM
".....because we appreciate and respect what he's done for us and what he means to the Warriors,"

I wonder if my boss would appreciate it and respect me if I belligerantly failed to honor commitments I've made to the company and demanded more money...


Nellie = T.O.

chumdawg
09-14-2007, 12:42 PM
I wonder if my boss would appreciate it and respect me if I belligerantly failed to honor commitments I've made to the company and demanded more money...


Nellie = T.O.Depends. Did you also singlehandedly turn around your company's performance and send profits soaring through the roof?

jthig32
09-14-2007, 01:01 PM
Depends. Did you also singlehandedly turn around your company's performance and send profits soaring through the roof?

So, if Nellie had completely failed last season, would it have been ok for the Warriors to decide they didn't want to fulfill their contract this season, and refuse to pay him, or decide to pay him considerably less?

ty
09-14-2007, 01:02 PM
Depends. Did you also singlehandedly turn around your company's performance and send profits soaring through the roof?

T.O. will do that this season. =O (With a little help from Romo)

chumdawg
09-14-2007, 01:52 PM
So, if Nellie had completely failed last season, would it have been ok for the Warriors to decide they didn't want to fulfill their contract this season, and refuse to pay him, or decide to pay him considerably less?No, that's not the way these things work.

jthig32
09-14-2007, 01:54 PM
No, that's not the way these things work.

lol. These things. Like this is something everyone does.

Threatening to retire unless the contract is renegotiated it also not how things work, for most people.

Jack.Kerr
09-14-2007, 02:05 PM
GSW shoulda insisted that if he didn't get the team back to the 2nd round that he would haveta re-pay the raise.

Flacolaco
09-14-2007, 02:08 PM
So, if Nellie had completely failed last season, would it have been ok for the Warriors to decide they didn't want to fulfill their contract this season, and refuse to pay him, or decide to pay him considerably less?

See, that's the thing.

And don't get me wrong, I would love to have a beer with Nellie. I think he's a funny guy. I love to listen to his interviews.

I just don't understand this way he has about him when it comes to money.

Oh hey, by the way, did Seah Peyton have a very public battle over wanting more money "or else" after leading the Saints to their most succesful year in franchise history?

chumdawg
09-14-2007, 02:35 PM
See, that's the thing.

And don't get me wrong, I would love to have a beer with Nellie. I think he's a funny guy. I love to listen to his interviews.

I just don't understand this way he has about him when it comes to money.

Oh hey, by the way, did Seah Peyton have a very public battle over wanting more money "or else" after leading the Saints to their most succesful year in franchise history?Sean Payton is no Don Nelson. And the NFL is not the NBA.

I don't know why you guys can't just be happy for Nellie.

DevinFuture
09-14-2007, 03:59 PM
I can be happy for him, but I still have to laugh that Golden State called his bluff.

EricaLubarsky
09-15-2007, 06:36 AM
Nellie Agrees To New Deal With Golden State
http://www.mercurynews.com/sportsheadlines/ci_6891441?nclick_check=1
September 14, 2007 - 11:33 am
San Jose Mercury News -
Don Nelson said Thursday that he has reached an agreement in principle with the team on a reworked deal that will bring him back for at least one more season.

Nelson, who originally signed a three-year deal in August 2006, relented and accepted the team's initial offer made several weeks ago. His base salary for each of the remaining two years will jump to $5.1 million from $3.1 million, but the final season is now a team option rather than guaranteed cash.

"I'm excited to come back and coach the team," Nelson said. "The Bay Area's perfect for us (Nelson and his wife, Joy), I love working with Mully (executive vice president Chris Mullin), I love the staff. There's so many positives here."

alby
09-15-2007, 09:20 AM
what a businessman