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EricaLubarsky
09-19-2007, 11:45 AM
http://www.sports.ru/blog/kirilenko/3427761.html

Coach Sloan is one of the reasons, but not the only one. За шесть проведенных в НБА лет, я, безусловно, приобрел колоссальный опыт. Six of the NBA years, I, of course, has enormous experience. Абсолютно понятно, что НБА – сильнейшая лига мира. It is clear that the NBA-strongest league world. Каждая игра делает тебя лучше как игрока только потому, что это вызов. Every game makes you better as a player only because it is a challenge. Вызов на бой. Call for battle. Такие условия закаляют. Such conditions zakalyayut. Все эти слова были справедливы для меня, за исключением двух последних сезонов. All these words have been fair to me, except for the last two seasons. Сейчас чувствую, что не прогрессирую как игрок. I now feel that progressiruyu not as a player. Стараюсь, но не получается. I try, but fails. Не дают. Do not give. Не получаю поддержки тренера и клуба. Do not get support coach and the club. Убежден, что методы Слоуна оказывают на меня отрицательное воздействие. I am convinced that the methods Sloan had a negative impact on me. Его основной способ мотивации игроков – воспитание чувства вины. His main method of motivating players - care guilt. Наши зарплаты, наши ошибки в матчах, наши поступки вне площадки – всегда повод для упрека. Our wages, our mistakes in the games, our actions outside the track is always cause for criticism. Хочу играть в баскетбол, хочу получать удовольствие от него, а не быть роботом, винтиком системы Слоуна. I want to play basketball, I want to enjoy it and not be a robot, piece of Sloan. Поэтому не вижу своего будущего в команде «Юта Джаз». Therefore, do not see their future in the team, "Utah Jazz.

Да, у меня большой, дорогой контракт. Yes, I have a big, expensive contract. Но уверен, что никогда не был неискренен или непорядочен по отношению к болельщикам «Джаз». But sure that never says or neporyadochen against the "Jazz fans." Невероятно признателен им за любовь ко мне, за поддержку. Incredibly grateful for the love me, for their support. Они помогали мне с первой минуты пребывания в Солт-Лейк-Сити. They helped me from the first minute stay in Salt Lake City. Не сомневаюсь, они поймут мотивы, которые мной движут. No doubt, they will understand the reasons that motivated me. Я никому не говорил этого ранее, но несколько недель назад я разговаривал с генеральным менеджером «Юты» Кевином О'Коннором. I did not say that to anyone before, but a few weeks ago I spoke with the general manager "Yuty" Kevin O 'Connor. Я сказал ему, что не вижу себя в команде и хочу уйти. I told him do not see themselves in a team and want to leave. Совершенно ясно, что с мы с «Ютой» по-разному смотрим на мое место и роль в команде. It is clear that we are "different" Yutoy look at my place and role in the team. Не хочу, чтобы я и мой контракт были обузой клубу, хочу, чтобы он шел своим курсом. I do not want that, I and my contract was drag club, I would like to take its course. Это его выбор. This is his choice. И у меня лишь одна просьба – дайте мне идти в том направлении, куда я хочу. And I have only one request-let me go in the direction where I want. Не хочу отбывать номер, механически исполнять контракт. I do not want to serve the number mechanically perform the contract. К сожалению, прошло больше недели, а от руководства «Джаз» нет никакого ответа, ни отрицательного, ни положительного. Unfortunately, the past week more, and the leaders of "Jazz" no response, no negative or positive. И его молчание – еще одно свидетельство отношения ко мне. And his silence is another example of me. Тем не менее, очень надеюсь, руководство «Юты» все же поймет, что наши отношения исчерпали себя и нам стоит расстаться. Nevertheless, it is hope, the "Concept" still understand that our relationship has exhausted itself and us is to part. (translated from Russian)

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 11:55 AM
AK has done this a couple of times. Sloan is a very good coach and if AK cant make it with a coach like that, then I dont see any need to have him here with the Mavs. I personally dont want a player like that on our team. AK should keep his mouth shut and discuss these things in private. I can see if Utah was not winning and he was tired of losing, but this guy is starting about himself. This shows me he is NOT a team player. All he cares about is what he does.

This guy is tired of winning with Utah?????

untitled
09-19-2007, 12:56 PM
This guy is tired of winning with Utah?????
He's probably just tired of LIVING in Utah.

I know I would want out.

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 01:18 PM
He's probably just tired of LIVING in Utah.

I know I would want out.

Yeah, but whining while you are on a winning team is not good business if you want out. It seems to be a selfish decision he is making. I wonder what Utah can get back in return for a disgruntled player? When he let the cat out of the bag like that, it puts Utah in a bad position because now GM's are going to low ball them on a trade.

Dtownsfinest
09-19-2007, 01:50 PM
Initially I said i'd love for Kirilenko to be here but I take that back. He doesn't want to be a robot? You don't get much better than Jerry Sloan. I'd probably trade him for Stack but otherwise i'd stay away from him.

Tokey41
09-19-2007, 01:54 PM
Are you joking Silk? He has every reason to whine, he's been put out of his element and asked to do things a player of his style is not meant to do. The Jazz are making the least of his talents, I don't know what more evidence you need of that.

Sloan has turned him into a jump shooter... now if you watch at Eurobasket (and the year Boozer was out) he is clearly more comfortable with OTHER offensive techniques. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you were being ridiculed for being a max deal player that is not producing when it's really the systems fault your numbers are down?

Free AK-47!! (preferably to Dallas)

DOMINATOR
09-19-2007, 02:20 PM
Are you joking Silk? He has every reason to whine, he's been put out of his element and asked to do things a player of his style is not meant to do. The Jazz are making the least of his talents, I don't know what more evidence you need of that.

Sloan has turned him into a jump shooter... now if you watch at Eurobasket (and the year Boozer was out) he is clearly more comfortable with OTHER offensive techniques. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you were being ridiculed for being a max deal player that is not producing when it's really the systems fault your numbers are down?

Free AK-47!! (preferably to Dallas)
what he said... except to houston :)

Flacolaco
09-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Actual english evidence....

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_6937933
Kirilenko wants out

Sep 19:

11:57 AM- Andrei Kirilenko's trade demand, made in a blog posting on a Russian Web site Tuesday, were the words of the Jazz's frustrated forward, The Salt Lake Tribune has confirmed.

Kirilenko still plans to report to Salt Lake City by Oct. 1 for the start of training camp, although the Jazz must decide whether they will accommodate Kirilenko's request.

The trade demand was more than a year in the making and probably would have come about last season, except Kirilenko opted to keep quiet with the Jazz enjoying such a successful season.

But Kirilenko was said to be unable to stomach the thought of returning to Utah, especially after rekindling his love of basketball playing for Russia's European championship winning team.

Whether Kirilenko's relationship with the Jazz, and especially with coach Jerry Sloan, could be salvaged was uncertain. Kirilenko's trade demand was in part the product of realizing that Sloan will remain the Jazz's coach for the foreseeable future.

Kirilenko's frustration with the Jazz has been a recurring subject of conversation with Kevin O'Connor, Utah's senior vice president of basketball operations, and the team has fielded proposed trades all summer.

EricaLubarsky
09-19-2007, 03:07 PM
so AK wants to go to Europe?

Jack.Kerr
09-19-2007, 03:36 PM
I really don't see AK being worth more than something like an inconsistent shooting combo-guard, who occasionally attempts to masquerade as a point guard, but who can't make plays or defend to save his life.

Anybody know where to find one of those?

DOMINATOR
09-19-2007, 04:09 PM
I really don't see AK being worth more than something like an inconsistent shooting combo-guard, who occasionally attempts to masquerade as a point guard, but who can't make plays or defend to save his life.

Anybody know where to find one of those?
Jason Terry :)

cruel_summer
09-19-2007, 04:27 PM
I really don't see AK being worth more than something like an inconsistent shooting combo-guard, who occasionally attempts to masquerade as a point guard, but who can't make plays or defend to save his life.

Anybody know where to find one of those?

Too funny! Too bad that the Jazz would probably laugh at an AK for Jet deal. However they once signed Terry to an offer sheet so maybe we could sweeten the deal a bit. Would love to have AK here as long as we are not trading away Josh or Dirk.

Tokey41
09-19-2007, 04:45 PM
I'd still consider trading Josh... but man if we could get him for Terry and bait it would solve all of our immediately pressing problems. Can you say defensive juggernaut?

cruel_summer
09-19-2007, 04:58 PM
I'd still consider trading Josh... but man if we could get him for Terry and bait it would solve all of our immediately pressing problems. Can you say defensive juggernaut?

I wouldn't trade him for Josh, especially since AK is a max guy, but I would offer Terry and pieces/draft picks if indeed he's available. I heard a rumored Marion for AK deal, and Marion >>>>> Terry. Utah made the WCF (with help from the Mavs) and they do have a nice team, so I doubt they give him away. But he seems to be on the outs with Sloan and their core appears to be D. Williams/Boozer/Okur so he would be expendable. The guy can still play, but he isn't happy in Utah. I think he would work better next to Dirk than Boozer, and you could slide Josh to SG. A pipe dream though as we won't get AK.....

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 06:47 PM
I really don't see AK being worth more than something like an inconsistent shooting combo-guard, who occasionally attempts to masquerade as a point guard, but who can't make plays or defend to save his life.

Anybody know where to find one of those?

Yeah, they called themselves sports writers :D :D :D :D

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Are you joking Silk? He has every reason to whine, he's been put out of his element and asked to do things a player of his style is not meant to do. The Jazz are making the least of his talents, I don't know what more evidence you need of that.

Sloan has turned him into a jump shooter... now if you watch at Eurobasket (and the year Boozer was out) he is clearly more comfortable with OTHER offensive techniques. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you were being ridiculed for being a max deal player that is not producing when it's really the systems fault your numbers are down?

Free AK-47!! (preferably to Dallas)

AK is a headcase and problem child. He has done this for two straight years. Why do people keep giving certain types of people free pass, but other types of people nothing? It is starting to get a little fishy. Let time I checked, headcases that wanted to be traded were bad news and are not the type of players the Mavs need/want. For example. Nick Van Exel, Spreewell and Artest. Everyone did not want them because they caused problems for their team, but AK does this and he has a right to do it? Double standards??

AK is not wanted here in Dallas. He is a problem child, and if he does not make it with a Sloan type of coach with a max deal, then he should go fu** himself and go back to Europe. If US max money and a HOF coach(Sloan) is not good enough for him, get the hell out of the US!!!! Seriously!!!! We dont need you!!!!

Utah can't have Jet or Howard for AK. Now, I may give them Harris ;) Harris got a max deal, so I will trade you one overpaid player for another overpaid player. Then move Harris to SG, because he sure as hell wont beat out D.Williams for the PG slot. Hell, he cant even beat out Jet here..LMAO

Jack.Kerr
09-19-2007, 08:01 PM
AK is a headcase and problem child. He has done this for two straight years. Why do people keep giving certain types of people free pass, but other types of people nothing? It is starting to get a little fishy. Let time I checked, headcases that wanted to be traded were bad news and are not the type of players the Mavs need/want. For example. Nick Van Exel, Spreewell and Artest. Everyone did not want them because they caused problems for their team, but AK does this and he has a right to do it? Double standards??

AK is not wanted here in Dallas. He is a problem child, and if he does not make it with a Sloan type of coach with a max deal, then he should go fu** himself and go back to Europe. If US max money and a HOF coach(Sloan) is not good enough for him, get the hell out of the US!!!! Seriously!!!! We dont need you!!!!

Utah can't have Jet or Howard for AK. Now, I may give them Harris ;) Harris got a max deal, so I will trade you one overpaid player for another overpaid player. Then move Harris to SG, because he sure as hell wont beat out D.Williams for the PG slot. Hell, he cant even beat out Jet here..LMAO

What a pantsload.

AK has done NOTHING comparably negative to what Sprewell, Artest did. He has not physically attacked anyone, nor has he provoked any kind of brawl. On the contrary, during last year's playoffs, he had a bad series against Houston, then came back, sucked it up, played hard and productively against the Warriors. His shortcoming? Giving an interview in the off-season to a foreign-language newspaper. Sloan is a great coach, but there has been a long line of stars to come out of Utah not liking him personally. He's no picnic to play for. Sounds like you're trying to do a little thinly-disguised race baiting.

AK would be a great fit in Dallas. If it's a pipe dream, it's because Dallas doesn't have anyone after Dirk and Devin who Utah would even consider taking on.

By the way, apparently no one has read the memo to you yet, but Devin is headed out for the opening tip. JET is having his ass measured for a custom seat on the bench.

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 08:09 PM
What a pantsload.

AK has done NOTHING comparably negative to what Sprewell, Artest did. He has not physically attacked anyone, nor has he provoked any kind of brawl. On the contrary, during last year's playoffs, he had a bad series against Houston, then came back, sucked it up, played hard and productively against the Warriors. His shortcoming? Giving an interview in the off-season to a foreign-language newspaper. Sloan is a great coach, but there has been a long line of stars to come out of Utah not liking him personally. He's no picnic to play for. Sounds like you're trying to do a little thinly-disguised race baiting.

AK would be a great fit in Dallas. If it's a pipe dream, it's because Dallas doesn't have anyone after Dirk and Devin who Utah would even consider taking on.

By the way, apparently no one has read the memo to you yet, but Devin is headed out for the opening tip. JET is having his ass measured for a custom seat on the bench.

Are you still claiming to be a sports writer, or have you stopped using the word writer so loosely? Stop comparing the depth of being a as*hole and distruption to a team. AK is a distruption to the team, and is a cancer. I have not heard any players saying bad things against Sloan. Stop trying to side for the cancer player. AK is a cancer, and every other GM knows it, and that is why Utah have NOT been able to trade AK. Plus, AK is a cry baby as well.

I could give a rats as* about Jet going to the bench. If Jet is going to the bench, it has nothing to do with getting outplayed by Harris. Bet your so-called media pass on that ;)

Stop trying to make Devin out to be the 2nd best player on the Mavs team. That was pure silly for you to mention Dirk and Harris in the same sentence when it comes to value for a trade. Stop pumping Harris to be more than he has been. It is what it is. Now go use a pencil and write a story on that. Pencil pusher !!!!! I wont fall for the race bait as well.

Jack.Kerr
09-19-2007, 08:19 PM
Are you still claiming to be a sports writer, or have you stopped using the word writer so loosely? Stop comparing the depth of being a as*hole and distruption to a team. AK is a distruption to the team, and is a cancer. I have not heard any players saying bad things against Sloan. Stop trying to side for the cancer player. AK is a cancer, and every other GM knows it, and that is why Utah have NOT been able to trade AK. Plus, AK is a cry baby as well.

I could give a rats as* about Jet going to the bench. If Jet is going to the bench, it has nothing to do with getting outplayed by Harris. Bet your so-called media pass on that ;)

Stop trying to make Devin out to be the 2nd best player on the Mavs team. That was pure silly for you to mention Dirk and Harris in the same sentence when it comes to value for a trade. Stop pumping Harris to be more than he has been. It is what it is. Now go use a pencil and write a story on that. Pencil pusher !!!!! I wont fall for the race bait as well.

You're an idiot. The other posts in this thread are Shakespeare compared to the nut-hugging drivel you defecate about Terry. That said, you're also a liar or an illiterate because I never suggested that I had been a sportswriter. Talk about slumming.

AK is an All-Star and one of the best defenders in the league. If the Mavericks could get him for All-Scrub Terry, they'd do it in a Moscow second.

Harris has CLEARLY outplayed Terry on the basis of defensive performance alone--that coupled with the potential he's shown has left Avery no choice. Harris has earned starter's minutes (not to mention a fat contract extension), and JET's repeated failures and overall limitations have put him in the support role he was born to play.

Why don't you pick up your chamois cloth and get back to the detailing. You're wasting bytes.

DOMINATOR
09-19-2007, 08:21 PM
AK is a cancer, and every other GM knows it, and that is why Utah have NOT been able to trade AK. Plus, AK is a cry baby as well.
i think his contract has more to do with him not being traded.

Silk Smoov
09-19-2007, 08:31 PM
i think his contract has more to do with him not being traded.
I think so as well, but I guarantee his attitude with Sloan has alot to do with it. I can overlook his contract, but overlooking his attitude with the coach is another...I really like Sloan, because he is an old school coach and I have always liked the way he coached and dealt with his players. He does not treat all the players the same, but he is consistently fair. AK wants to be babied and get his way and not for the betterment of the team.

alby
09-19-2007, 11:54 PM
I would do AK for Jason Terry any day of the week. There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk.

However, the only question for Dallas is the money factor--that to me is offset by the fact that Terry is 6' 1" and is older.

dalmations202
09-20-2007, 06:09 AM
I would do AK for Jason Terry any day of the week. There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk.

However, the only question for Dallas is the money factor--that to me is offset by the fact that Terry is 6' 1" and is older.
Bingo

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 07:51 AM
I would do AK for Jason Terry any day of the week. There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk.

However, the only question for Dallas is the money factor--that to me is offset by the fact that Terry is 6' 1" and is older.

I would trade Harris for AK b4 trading Terry. That line-up you suggested with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk has too many holes on offense. No outside shooter, no clutch player and teams would just sink in the lane and dare Harris/AK to shoot. I say "No" to this. It would be a great defense, but it would be 2 on 5 on offense, because when you include the center, then you can factor in Harris/AK/Damp or Diop as non-factors on offense.

Now here is a killer line-up if we HAD to get AK... Terry/Howard/AK/Dirk/Damp. You have 3offensive players to carry the load, and you are covered with good solid defense as well.

But in the end, I dont want AK, because he is NOT a team player and a liability just like Harris on offense.

dalmations202
09-20-2007, 08:30 AM
I would trade Harris for AK b4 trading Terry. That line-up you suggested with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk has too many holes on offense. No outside shooter, no clutch player and teams would just sink in the lane and dare Harris/AK to shoot. I say "No" to this. It would be a great defense, but it would be 2 on 5 on offense, because when you include the center, then you can factor in Harris/AK/Damp or Diop as non-factors on offense.

Now here is a killer line-up if we HAD to get AK... Terry/Howard/AK/Dirk/Damp. You have 3offensive players to carry the load, and you are covered with good solid defense as well.

But in the end, I dont want AK, because he is NOT a team player and a liability just like Harris on offense.

Dirk can't shoot from the outside? Howard can't shoot from the outside? Admittedly Harris is a penetrating guard, and AK is a slasher and "clean up" type player, but he has some offense as well. Stack and George could be put in for shooters out of the corners.

Dirk isn't clutch, but Terry is? You didn't see game 7 against SA did you.

Have you checked out the numbers AK had when Boozer was out, and he was allowed to work inside? AK became an all-star due to his play. He regressed when Sloan put Boozer inside and AK became an offside jump shooter which is not his strength. I am not saying that it wasn't the best option for Sloan, but it was definately not the best place for AK. On the Dallas team, they don't have an inside threat who is a post player like a Boozer, Shaq, or TD. They have a basic open middle which players use to drive. AK would thrive offensively here. He could also thrive defensively because Dallas has turnstiles on the perimeter and everything is funneled back to Damp/Diop in the middle. If AK could help side, his shot blocking would be very good as well.

Personally, I'd take Harris's defense over Terry's offense most of the time. The Mavs have Dirk, and Howard, and then Stack, George, Jones, as well as Harris who can chip in points. Giving points up and getting the bigs in foul trouble is a bigger issue to me -- and Harris is better than Terry in that category.

Tell me, with the line-up of Harris, Howard, AK, Dirk, Diop with Damp, Stack, Jones, George ----- the nine that would actaully see playoff minutes --- what team do they not match up against from a defensive standpoint?

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 08:51 AM
Dirk can't shoot from the outside? Howard can't shoot from the outside? Admittedly Harris is a penetrating guard, and AK is a slasher and "clean up" type player, but he has some offense as well. Stack and George could be put in for shooters out of the corners.

Dirk isn't clutch, but Terry is? You didn't see game 7 against SA did you.

Have you checked out the numbers AK had when Boozer was out, and he was allowed to work inside? AK became an all-star due to his play. He regressed when Sloan put Boozer inside and AK became an offside jump shooter which is not his strength. I am not saying that it wasn't the best option for Sloan, but it was definately not the best place for AK. On the Dallas team, they don't have an inside threat who is a post player like a Boozer, Shaq, or TD. They have a basic open middle which players use to drive. AK would thrive offensively here. He could also thrive defensively because Dallas has turnstiles on the perimeter and everything is funneled back to Damp/Diop in the middle. If AK could help side, his shot blocking would be very good as well.

Personally, I'd take Harris's defense over Terry's offense most of the time. The Mavs have Dirk, and Howard, and then Stack, George, Jones, as well as Harris who can chip in points. Giving points up and getting the bigs in foul trouble is a bigger issue to me -- and Harris is better than Terry in that category.

Tell me, with the line-up of Harris, Howard, AK, Dirk, Diop with Damp, Stack, Jones, George ----- the nine that would actaully see playoff minutes --- what team do they not match up against from a defensive standpoint?

Jet is the best clutch player the Mavs have. How could you even argue that?

Harris is not a penetrating guard because he does not finish(score) on a consistent basis, nor does he set players up on a consistent basis. I would consider Parker a penetrating scoring PG is we want to use the word penetrating. Parker penetrates to score. Look at the numbers and it proves it. That is the reason he shots a high fg%. He is a scoring PG, who uses penetration to get his points. Kidd penetrates to set-up other players to score.

Will somebody wake me up and tell me when AK became an inside scorer? AK does NOT have any inside moves to score. He is NOT the answer for an inside scorer. Please show me how we can call AK an inside scorer. AK is a garbage guy, who thrives on garbage buckets on offense. He is a sneaky player who can get tip-ins and hustle points on fast break type plays. He is NOT an inside scorer. AK has zero offensive skills and is limited on the offensive end. AK is not a go to guy as well, and cant create his own shots, and his not a good outside shooter. He plays great help defense and gets garbage buckets and can rebound well. All these things are also great for the Mavs, but his attitude and lack of offense is a negative.

alby
09-20-2007, 10:00 AM
I would trade Harris for AK b4 trading Terry. That line-up you suggested with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk has too many holes on offense. No outside shooter, no clutch player and teams would just sink in the lane and dare Harris/AK to shoot. I say "No" to this. It would be a great defense, but it would be 2 on 5 on offense, because when you include the center, then you can factor in Harris/AK/Damp or Diop as non-factors on offense.

Now here is a killer line-up if we HAD to get AK... Terry/Howard/AK/Dirk/Damp. You have 3offensive players to carry the load, and you are covered with good solid defense as well.

But in the end, I dont want AK, because he is NOT a team player and a liability just like Harris on offense.

"There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk."

alby
09-20-2007, 10:02 AM
Okay silk, so you wouldn't trade Jason Terry for AK47 (lol)... who would you trade the guy for???

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 10:22 AM
Okay silk, so you wouldn't trade Jason Terry for AK47 (lol)... who would you trade the guy for???

No, you tell me who you would trade Harris for????

How could you LOL, when you say you would NOT trade Harris for AK???????????????

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 10:28 AM
"There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk."

Look at your bias again.

Add to this to the arguement as well:

There's no argument at all on whether or not the team would be better with Terry/Howard/AK/Dirk compared to Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk."[/

dalmations202
09-20-2007, 11:07 AM
Jet is the best clutch player the Mavs have. How could you even argue that?

Harris is not a penetrating guard because he does not finish(score) on a consistent basis, nor does he set players up on a consistent basis. I would consider Parker a penetrating scoring PG is we want to use the word penetrating. Parker penetrates to score. Look at the numbers and it proves it. That is the reason he shots a high fg%. He is a scoring PG, who uses penetration to get his points. Kidd penetrates to set-up other players to score.

Will somebody wake me up and tell me when AK became an inside scorer? AK does NOT have any inside moves to score. He is NOT the answer for an inside scorer. Please show me how we can call AK an inside scorer. AK is a garbage guy, who thrives on garbage buckets on offense. He is a sneaky player who can get tip-ins and hustle points on fast break type plays. He is NOT an inside scorer. AK has zero offensive skills and is limited on the offensive end. AK is not a go to guy as well, and cant create his own shots, and his not a good outside shooter. He plays great help defense and gets garbage buckets and can rebound well. All these things are also great for the Mavs, but his attitude and lack of offense is a negative.

Between the 03/04 season and the 05/06 season AK avg 15+ppg, 47+FG%, 75+FT%, and 3.5 assists per game, and you say he has no offensive ability. Heck he even shot 31.5% from 3pt line, while not being a shooter. This from a guy that you say has no offensive ability??? And his defense during this time 3+ blocks per game, 7+rpg, and 1.66 spg.

Jet for comparison in his 3 years at Dallas avg 15.4ppg, 49+ FG%, 82 FT%, and 4.8 APG. This from the PG who handles the ball every possession. From the defensive end though, .25 bpg, 2.4 rpg, and 1.2spg. He does shoot ~42% from the 3pt line.

Jet listed at 6'2", AK listed at 6'9" --- Jet is older by a couple years.

I like Jet, but IMO.... AK would be the better player on Dallas team considering the makeup of the team.

As far as Jet is clutch- if the game is on the line, and hypothetically I am the coach, Dirk always get the chance to make the play -- even if it is a kick out to Stack or George or Howard or even AK. As I said, I like Jet, but their is little comparison to Dirk as far as talent goes.

Tokey41
09-20-2007, 11:13 AM
No, you tell me who you would trade Harris for????

How could you LOL, when you say you would NOT trade Harris for AK???????????????

I would definitely trade Harris for AK (or Terry, and like I said I would think long and hard about trading Josh). I think you make a good point about keeping Terry and keeping an outside threat, but if we did that our defense wouldn't be nearly as impressive... and besides if we traded Terry we would still have Stack, Jones, and George coming off the bench for some firepower. I think we'd be okay for outside shooting especially since AK would bring post scoring with him (which we have NONE of as of right now). But I would trade Terry OR Harris for AK, he's on another level.

The thing about Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk is that every single one of those guys can score, some of them just not consistently, but that can be said about much of the league (and also why we have the previosuly mentioned shooters on the bench). If one isn't scoring they should recognize it and simply contribute in other ways (AK is also a better passer than either of our PG's right now lol). Great defense in my eyes is also much more consistent from players than offense, that's where the strength of this starting lineup would lie. I have no doubt it would bring us a championship.

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 11:24 AM
Between the 03/04 season and the 05/06 season AK avg 15+ppg, 47+FG%, 75+FT%, and 3.5 assists per game, and you say he has no offensive ability. Heck he even shot 31.5% from 3pt line, while not being a shooter. This from a guy that you say has no offensive ability??? And his defense during this time 3+ blocks per game, 7+rpg, and 1.66 spg.

Jet for comparison in his 3 years at Dallas avg 15.4ppg, 49+ FG%, 82 FT%, and 4.8 APG. This from the PG who handles the ball every possession. From the defensive end though, .25 bpg, 2.4 rpg, and 1.2spg. He does shoot ~42% from the 3pt line.

Jet listed at 6'2", AK listed at 6'9" --- Jet is older by a couple years.

I like Jet, but IMO.... AK would be the better player on Dallas team considering the makeup of the team.

As far as Jet is clutch- if the game is on the line, and hypothetically I am the coach, Dirk always get the chance to make the play -- even if it is a kick out to Stack or George or Howard or even AK. As I said, I like Jet, but their is little comparison to Dirk as far as talent goes.

Now compare AK and Harris numbers for me, so we can take a look at it as well :cool:

I dont know where this data is coming from, but AK is not an inside force by any means. He gets garbage buckets on the offensive boards, and runs out well on fast breaks for lay-ups. In the half court setting, he is an offensive liability. The Mavs are the 3rd slowest team by the stat chart, so that even shows that half-court offense is most important for the Mavs. That is why we truly need an inside scorer like Webber type. AK is NOT that answer by any means as an inside scorer.

Here is another thing, by your numbers, then Shaq is a great outside scorer as well because he shots about 50% for his career. Get my point????? And if he takes about ten 3-pointers in his career and makes 3, then he is shooting 33% from 3 point range, which is pretty good. See my point again?

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 11:36 AM
I would definitely trade Harris for AK (or Terry, and like I said I would think long and hard about trading Josh). I think you make a good point about keeping Terry and keeping an outside threat, but if we did that our defense wouldn't be nearly as impressive... and besides if we traded Terry we would still have Stack, Jones, and George coming off the bench for some firepower. I think we'd be okay for outside shooting especially since AK would bring post scoring with him (which we have NONE of as of right now). But I would trade Terry OR Harris for AK, he's on another level.

The thing about Harris/Howard/AK/Dirk is that every single one of those guys can score, some of them just not consistently, but that can be said about much of the league (and also why we have the previosuly mentioned shooters on the bench). If one isn't scoring they should recognize it and simply contribute in other ways (AK is also a better passer than either of our PG's right now lol). Great defense in my eyes is also much more consistent from players than offense, that's where the strength of this starting lineup would lie. I have no doubt it would bring us a championship.

Would Terry/Howard/AK/Dirk bring us a title?

OK, so you say you expect consistent shooting from Stack,Eddie and George? Think about that for a second. I love Stack to death, but Stack will cause you nightmares if you want him to consistently perform well from shooting ;)

If Terry is not here, then ALL teams would just game plan to sink in the lane on the Mavs and force them to shot. That would be a nightmare for the Mavs. Every game, each coach has to account for Terry on the court. There is no way around that. When you have a player like Dirk on the court, you have to contain deadly outside shooters like Terry. The Terry/Dirk iso's are hard to stop, and you have to have the right defensive personnell to stop it. There are only a couple of teams that have the right pieces to stop that. Same thing when Nash was here. Same thing with the Suns now with Nash/Amare.

You can hate it all you want, but the pick/roll or pick/pop is a deadly offensive weapon in the NBA and the teams with this offense wins around 60 games a year in the regular season. The catch is that this team also has to be able to adjust a bit in the playoffs. Mavs almost pulled it off in 2006. Even the Pistons have this type of offense with Billups at point. He is a deadly outside shooter as well. The real difference is that Pistons/SA have an inside force that can counter defenses to free up open shooters. Mavs dont have this, so the offensive scoring is the biggest issue in the crunch. It appears the Mavs have alot of fire power, but that simply is not true because of the lack of a inside scorer to balance the offense when needed in the playoffs. This also means that Jet is alot more important than most think.

alby
09-20-2007, 11:40 AM
No, you tell me who you would trade Harris for????

How could you LOL, when you say you would NOT trade Harris for AK???????????????

I would do Harris for AK in a heartbeart... I never said I wouldn't do that deal.
But, let's be realistic--Utah would not want Devin. (They really wouldn't want Terry either)

alby
09-20-2007, 11:44 AM
"Between the 03/04 season and the 05/06 season AK avg 15+ppg, 47+FG%, 75+FT%, and 3.5 assists per game, and you say he has no offensive ability. Heck he even shot 31.5% from 3pt line, while not being a shooter. This from a guy that you say has no offensive ability??? And his defense during this time 3+ blocks per game, 7+rpg, and 1.66 spg.

Jet for comparison in his 3 years at Dallas avg 15.4ppg, 49+ FG%, 82 FT%, and 4.8 APG. This from the PG who handles the ball every possession. From the defensive end though, .25 bpg, 2.4 rpg, and 1.2spg. He does shoot ~42% from the 3pt line.

Jet listed at 6'2", AK listed at 6'9" --- Jet is older by a couple years."

There really is no argument is there?

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 11:46 AM
I would do Harris for AK in a heartbeart... I never said I wouldn't do that deal.
But, let's be realistic--Utah would not want Devin. (They really wouldn't want Terry either)

I would too!!! So that makes a pro-Harris and pro-Terry agree that they would both trade Harris for AK in a heartbeat. At least we find a way to agree on something ;)

But, since all this mess with AK and his attitude, I would hesitate a bit on that.

dalmations202
09-20-2007, 11:49 AM
What Utah might do though is AK to Dallas, Terry to Seattle, and Wally to Utah.

Utah gains offense loses defense, but cuts two years out of payments guarenteed to AK.
Seattle gains a vet shooter to lead that club, and loses a player that would probably be taking time from Durant -- when they already need Durant and Green playing all they can.
Dallas gains defense, loses a little offense, but doesn't have to play small then to get their best 5 on the floor. Also Terry's contract is what makes him the one to move, if you are trying to obtain AK -- not becuase of his play versus Harris's play.

The numbers I gave above came from NBA.com/players/ then the stats of the individual players during those years (you know add all three years, and then divide by 3). Admittedly I used the Jets last three years to the three before this last one for AK, since I thought AK was horribly used this last year when Boozer came back.

alby
09-20-2007, 11:51 AM
AK47 > Terry
Harris/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

AK47 > Harris
Terry/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

Why are we arguing this point again? I thought this was pretty much common sense.

Utah wouldn't want Harris because they have Deron and Brown at the PG position, however, Terry--they might think about to replace Fisher's role. But honestly, that is not fair to Fisher because the man can play defense.

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 12:03 PM
"Between the 03/04 season and the 05/06 season AK avg 15+ppg, 47+FG%, 75+FT%, and 3.5 assists per game, and you say he has no offensive ability. Heck he even shot 31.5% from 3pt line, while not being a shooter. This from a guy that you say has no offensive ability??? And his defense during this time 3+ blocks per game, 7+rpg, and 1.66 spg.

Jet for comparison in his 3 years at Dallas avg 15.4ppg, 49+ FG%, 82 FT%, and 4.8 APG. This from the PG who handles the ball every possession. From the defensive end though, .25 bpg, 2.4 rpg, and 1.2spg. He does shoot ~42% from the 3pt line.

Jet listed at 6'2", AK listed at 6'9" --- Jet is older by a couple years."

There really is no argument is there?

Lets add your boy Harris to this as well:

Harris: 8.3pts,46+FG,77% FT%, 3.0 APG

Does not look good for your guy Harris when comparing stats with AK or Terry. Seems to prove my point of trading Harris over Jet for AK.

Lets go to the career playoff numbers as well, so we can find true value.

Regular Season Playoffs
1. AK --15ppg, 47FG%, 75FT%, 3.5 APG, AK --9.9ppg, 43FG%, 81FT%, 2.1 APG,
2. Jet--15.4ppg, 49 FG%, 82 FT%,4.8 APG Jet--18.2ppg, 45.6 FG%, 85 FT%,4.0 APG
3. Harris-- 8.5pts,46+FG,77% FT%, 3.0 APG Harris-- 8.3pts,48+FG,70% FT%, 2.4 APG

See you forced my hand, so I have to prove once again that Harris is not the better player, nor is AK. As of matter of fact, it also shows how AK becomes absent in the playoffs. We dont need anymore than that. No excuses...Thanks for having me dig a little deeper into the real numbers that can be proved. Jet is proven to be the better consistent playoff player as well. By the way, AK is a career 20% 3 pt shooter in the playoffs. Just wanted ot throw that out there as well :D :D

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 12:08 PM
AK47 > Terry
Harris/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

AK47 > Harris
Terry/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

Why are we arguing this point again? I thought this was pretty much common sense.

Utah wouldn't want Harris because they have Deron and Brown at the PG position, however, Terry--they might think about to replace Fisher's role. But honestly, that is not fair to Fisher because the man can play defense.

OOOOOH my goodness!!!!!!!!

Now, I have to back Harris on this one..

I will take Harris over Brown ANY day of the week!!!!!!!!!

How can you like Harris if you think Brown is better than Harris????

Dont say you didn't say that, because it says it right between the lines on this post I replied to.

Meaning:

You said Utah would take Terry over Harris because Terry could fill a void.
Then you stated Utah would not have ANY need for Harris because of Deron/Brown.

So you are saying by your terms, that Jet is better than Brown, so Utah would take Jet.
Then you say by your terms, that Brown is better than Harris, so there is NO need because of Deron and Brown...

You are going to make several pro-Harris people Mad!!! And rightfully so. Shi*, you even got a pro-Jet person mad on this one ;)

Harris > Brown !!!!!!!!!!!!!

dalmations202
09-20-2007, 01:36 PM
Regular Season Playoffs
1. AK --15ppg, 47FG%, 75FT%, 3.5 APG, AK --9.9ppg, 43FG%, 81FT%, 2.1 APG,
2. Jet--15.4ppg, 49 FG%, 82 FT%,4.8 APG Jet--18.2ppg, 45.6 FG%, 85 FT%,4.0 APG
3. Harris-- 8.5pts,46+FG,77% FT%, 3.0 APG Harris-- 8.3pts,48+FG,70% FT%, 2.4 APG

See you forced my hand, so I have to prove once again that Harris is not the better player, nor is AK. As of matter of fact, it also shows how AK becomes absent in the playoffs. We dont need anymore than that. No excuses...Thanks for having me dig a little deeper into the real numbers that can be proved. Jet is proven to be the better consistent playoff player as well. By the way, AK is a career 20% 3 pt shooter in the playoffs. Just wanted ot throw that out there as well :D :D

This is like comparing apples to oranges. I have given that AK had a horrid year this last year, even in the playoffs. He was played out of position, and not the focal point of the offense at all with Boozer, Okur, and Deron on the floor. AK was at best the #4 option and expected to be a jumpshooter. AK shouldn't be either. If you take out his this years playoffs, and take out the other 9 total playoff games he played 02 and 03 when he played behind the Mailman and wasn't a starter, then you don't really have much to go on. I guess we could compare his playoff numbers to Jet's playoff numbers before Jet became the #2 guy behind Dirk -- that would be fair, IMO. Of course 00-00 makes them look pretty even.

Tokey41
09-20-2007, 01:50 PM
I think the Jazz would want Terry more for the previously mentioned reason of filling Fishers void. True Terry doesn't play defense but as a combo (shoot first) guard he could certainly fit their rotation nicely. A great contrast to Deron's game for sure.

To answer the question... yes, Terry/Josh/AK/Dirk/C's would bring us a championship as well in my eyes. Although I don't think the defenses would sink in as much as your suggesting. Dirk would be playing farther from the rim once AK was in, Josh is expected to become more consistent, AK 'can' hit the outside shot (what he's been robotically programmed to do in Utah... though not well), and then Devin can do his thing driving (and theres always the potential of him getting a jumper, we won't rely on that though).

And one more thing... AK IS the answer to our post scoring problems. There is no better available alternative and even if he doesn't work out the way I envision it would still be an upgrade overall. Pipe dream? Perhaps... depending on how many teams show interest in AK and how badly the Jazz want to deal him after those comments. I think a deal for Terry would be our best hope without giving up too much, they would definitely try and get Josh though.

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 02:49 PM
This is like comparing apples to oranges. I have given that AK had a horrid year this last year, even in the playoffs. He was played out of position, and not the focal point of the offense at all with Boozer, Okur, and Deron on the floor. AK was at best the #4 option and expected to be a jumpshooter. AK shouldn't be either. If you take out his this years playoffs, and take out the other 9 total playoff games he played 02 and 03 when he played behind the Mailman and wasn't a starter, then you don't really have much to go on. I guess we could compare his playoff numbers to Jet's playoff numbers before Jet became the #2 guy behind Dirk -- that would be fair, IMO. Of course 00-00 makes them look pretty even.
That dont even make sense when you say apples to oranges. Those numbers are as fair as they come. You are trying to cherry-pick and give excuses for poor play for AK. You brought up the numbers so I compared them EQUALLY. Then take out Terry in the playoffs this season as well. See how it goes :cool: I can cherry-pick with the best of them.

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 02:53 PM
I think the Jazz would want Terry more for the previously mentioned reason of filling Fishers void. True Terry doesn't play defense but as a combo (shoot first) guard he could certainly fit their rotation nicely. A great contrast to Deron's game for sure.

To answer the question... yes, Terry/Josh/AK/Dirk/C's would bring us a championship as well in my eyes. Although I don't think the defenses would sink in as much as your suggesting. Dirk would be playing farther from the rim once AK was in, Josh is expected to become more consistent, AK 'can' hit the outside shot (what he's been robotically programmed to do in Utah... though not well), and then Devin can do his thing driving (and theres always the potential of him getting a jumper, we won't rely on that though).

And one more thing... AK IS the answer to our post scoring problems. There is no better available alternative and even if he doesn't work out the way I envision it would still be an upgrade overall. Pipe dream? Perhaps... depending on how many teams show interest in AK and how badly the Jazz want to deal him after those comments. I think a deal for Terry would be our best hope without giving up too much, they would definitely try and get Josh though.

Think about what you are saying. You just said AK was the best 'Available Alternative" out there. How is that? Please explain who is out there? If you want to talk AK, then you have to include every SG/PF in the league that is available, because all of them are as available as AK :D :D :D

Did AK become an unrestricted free agent today or something? I missed that. Someone please explain how this happened with the CBA :confused: Maybe you should try a different way of saying available. Were you talking as in people that want to be traded or something. If so, I still go with Kobe ;)

ty
09-20-2007, 03:13 PM
OOOOOH my goodness!!!!!!!!

Now, I have to back Harris on this one..

I will take Harris over Brown ANY day of the week!!!!!!!!!

How can you like Harris if you think Brown is better than Harris????

Dont say you didn't say that, because it says it right between the lines on this post I replied to.

Meaning:

You said Utah would take Terry over Harris because Terry could fill a void.
Then you stated Utah would not have ANY need for Harris because of Deron/Brown.

So you are saying by your terms, that Jet is better than Brown, so Utah would take Jet.
Then you say by your terms, that Brown is better than Harris, so there is NO need because of Deron and Brown...

You are going to make several pro-Harris people Mad!!! And rightfully so. Shi*, you even got a pro-Jet person mad on this one ;)

Harris > Brown !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are making too many assumptions. Your deductions from what alby was saying are totally out of line. One of the main points that he was trying to get across was that Terry would fill the void of Fisher. (Obviously because of his outside shooting) He made no references to Terry being better than Harris, or Harris being better than Terry, or EITHER of them being better than Brown. I seriously don't see your thought process...

I really don't see how you can make all those deductions in your "Meaning:" section...

mcsluggo
09-20-2007, 03:42 PM
That dont even make sense when you say apples to oranges. Those numbers are as fair as they come. You are trying to cherry-pick and give excuses for poor play for AK. You brought up the numbers so I compared them EQUALLY. Then take out Terry in the playoffs this season as well. See how it goes :cool: I can cherry-pick with the best of them.

I call bullsh*t.

It is quiteconvenient to ignore the fact that AK only MADE the playoffs his first two seasons (before he blossomed as a player) and last year (a woeful year all around for him)

he didn't make the playoff in 03-4, 04-05 or 05-06 -- his best statistical years. His stats didn't drop inthe playoffs... he only made the playoffs in bad stat years... whether you want to argue what THAT says about him is up to you, but to argue as you do is pure statistical homicide.

alby
09-20-2007, 04:07 PM
Silk, are you related to Jason Terry or something?

alby
09-20-2007, 04:08 PM
OOOOOH my goodness!!!!!!!!

Now, I have to back Harris on this one..

I will take Harris over Brown ANY day of the week!!!!!!!!!

How can you like Harris if you think Brown is better than Harris????

Dont say you didn't say that, because it says it right between the lines on this post I replied to.

Meaning:

You said Utah would take Terry over Harris because Terry could fill a void.
Then you stated Utah would not have ANY need for Harris because of Deron/Brown.

So you are saying by your terms, that Jet is better than Brown, so Utah would take Jet.
Then you say by your terms, that Brown is better than Harris, so there is NO need because of Deron and Brown...

You are going to make several pro-Harris people Mad!!! And rightfully so. Shi*, you even got a pro-Jet person mad on this one ;)

Harris > Brown !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would Utah pay for another point guard when they already have a bona-fide all star in Deron Williams locked up in their starting rotation. Brown is already their back up at the 1 and a good 10th man off the bench. They wouldn't trade for Devin because Devin is a starting point guard and they have no room for him. What are you talking about?

alby
09-20-2007, 04:11 PM
Think about what you are saying. You just said AK was the best 'Available Alternative" out there. How is that? Please explain who is out there? If you want to talk AK, then you have to include every SG/PF in the league that is available, because all of them are as available as AK :D :D :D

Did AK become an unrestricted free agent today or something? I missed that. Someone please explain how this happened with the CBA :confused: Maybe you should try a different way of saying available. Were you talking as in people that want to be traded or something. If so, I still go with Kobe ;)

1. this is a basketball forum
2. it is the offseason

AK47 voicing his demands to be traded is pretty big news in the NBA world right now. As a Maverick's fan, are we not allowed to discuss the possibilities of Dallas landing AK47?

ty
09-20-2007, 04:48 PM
Why would Utah pay for another point guard when they already have a bona-fide all star in Deron Williams locked up in their starting rotation. Brown is already their back up at the 1 and a good 10th man off the bench. They wouldn't trade for Devin because Devin is a starting point guard and they have no room for him. What are you talking about?

Exactly. You definitely hit the spot by ending with "What are you talking about?"

=]

alby
09-20-2007, 05:09 PM
It's hard to grasp what he's trying to argue sometimes, I just need clarification. =\

bobatundi
09-20-2007, 05:19 PM
I think it's pretty clear: the Mavs should break the bank and get Kobe.

ty
09-20-2007, 05:21 PM
It's hard to grasp what he's trying to argue sometimes, I just need clarification. =\

Alby. He is the one that needs clarification. I'm not even kidding. Some kind of language barrier...

alby
09-20-2007, 05:24 PM
big time barrier

alby
09-20-2007, 05:24 PM
I think it's pretty clear: the Mavs should break the bank and get Kobe.

you said it =p

rmacomic
09-20-2007, 06:19 PM
I think it's pretty clear: the Mavs should break the bank and get Kobe.
The mavs were never in the Kobe race in the first place.:rolleyes:

Tokey41
09-20-2007, 08:51 PM
Think about what you are saying. You just said AK was the best 'Available Alternative" out there. How is that? Please explain who is out there? If you want to talk AK, then you have to include every SG/PF in the league that is available, because all of them are as available as AK :D :D :D

Did AK become an unrestricted free agent today or something? I missed that. Someone please explain how this happened with the CBA :confused: Maybe you should try a different way of saying available. Were you talking as in people that want to be traded or something. If so, I still go with Kobe ;)

Yeah because we are going to get Kobe for Jason Terry. AK is the best alternative in a trade scenario because he has been actively pursuing a trade (even last season if you recall, the Jazz were looking for trades). And since he has publicly demanded a trade he is MORE available than every SG/PF in the league.

Silk Smoov
09-20-2007, 09:23 PM
Yeah because we are going to get Kobe for Jason Terry. AK is the best alternative in a trade scenario because he has been actively pursuing a trade (even last season if you recall, the Jazz were looking for trades). And since he has publicly demanded a trade he is MORE available than every SG/PF in the league.

I cant agree on this one at all. I value Kobe over them all, but if you want to exclude Kobe, then I still put J O'Neal over AK all day long.

alby
09-21-2007, 01:24 AM
Silk, tempers and biases aside. Name me 5 players in the NBA you think is on Jason Terry's level. Your own personal opinion.

Underdog
09-21-2007, 10:33 AM
I cant agree on this one at all. I value Kobe over them all, but if you want to exclude Kobe, then I still put J O'Neal over AK all day long.


Kobe & JO aren't going anywhere - they ARE the team...

On the other hand, the Jazz could live without Kirilenko if they got a good player in return (you know, someone like Terry)... AK not only wants out of Utah, but is willing to take less money to do it which makes his departure a lot more likely than players of a higher caliber, suchas Kobe or O'Neal...

This is a case of possible reality vs total fantasy... Guess which side of the debate you stand on?

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 01:00 PM
Kobe & JO aren't going anywhere - they ARE the team...

On the other hand, the Jazz could live without Kirilenko if they got a good player in return (you know, someone like Terry)... AK not only wants out of Utah, but is willing to take less money to do it which makes his departure a lot more likely than players of a higher caliber, suchas Kobe or O'Neal...

This is a case of possible reality vs total fantasy... Guess which side of the debate you stand on?

Please tell me which side I stand on?

Then after you tell me, then someone please explain to Underdog how AK can take less money to get out of Utah? I know of only one way, but I guarantee Utah will not do it to get rid of him.

Then Underdog wants to say I am in total fantasy land for saying that Kobe and J'Oneal are not wanting out. Go figure!!!!!

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Silk, tempers and biases aside. Name me 5 players in the NBA you think is on Jason Terry's level. Your own personal opinion.

All jokes aside, that is a very dumb question. Thats like me asking you to name 5 NBA players that is on Harris level. That is plain dumb and you know it. Try a different approach on trying to bait me to answer a dumb question.

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 01:05 PM
Kobe & JO aren't going anywhere - they ARE the team...

On the other hand, the Jazz could live without Kirilenko if they got a good player in return (you know, someone like Terry)... AK not only wants out of Utah, but is willing to take less money to do it which makes his departure a lot more likely than players of a higher caliber, suchas Kobe or O'Neal...

This is a case of possible reality vs total fantasy... Guess which side of the debate you stand on?
So, I guess you are saying that Harris is NOT good enough to be traded? Because I see you wanted to throw trading Jet in my face for a reason...Dont play innocent now. You added Jet to it for a purpose. So, is Harris a good enough player to be traded to Utah?

Dirkenstien
09-21-2007, 01:19 PM
Having Dirk and AK on the same team would be like a dream come true.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-21-2007, 02:22 PM
AK47 is a baby and dumb. Who in their right f'in mind would ever consider giving up 63 million to play in RUSSIA. Man that kid must have the Russian flag tatooed on his balls.

Dirkenstien
09-21-2007, 04:36 PM
AK47 is a baby and dumb. Who in their right f'in mind would ever consider giving up 63 million to play in RUSSIA. Man that kid must have the Russian flag tatooed on his balls.

I think it's just more of an issue of wanting to have that passion to play again even if that means going back to Russia. Obviously he isn't happy where he is and he wants to reignite that fire within him. Can't blame a man for that.

The Jazz just need to start looking into deals and get something done.

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 04:56 PM
AK has a problem and his attitude and antics is NOT needed here with the Mavs. These antics are selfish and unprofessional. There is no basis for him being like this other than thinking about himself. I can understand a player wanting to win and a owner not willing to build around you, but to be like this on a winning team and coach like Sloan?

I have never seen anything like b4 in the NBA. There has to be a great concern to every GM about having this type of player on a team. Talent wise he is greatly needed, but this baggage maybe too high, then you have to factor in what he makes as well. I pass on AK.

Tokey41
09-21-2007, 05:15 PM
I don't see what your not getting here... Sloan's system is terrible for AK-47. It's that simple, he just doens't have a spot. This leads to people saying he is overpaid and is just plain not as good as his contract indicates.

AK has finally become vocal about it simply because he's tired of all the criticism he's getting for being an underacheiver when it is not his fault (at least not entirely, I don't think at all but i'm sure someone will want to argue otherwise). Can you blame a guy for that? Absolutely not.

His attitude is NOT a problem. He is not an Artest or a Kobe, he just wants out because he has no spot on the roster to maximize his talents. At Eurobasket he was given that opportunity to showcase what he can do (and there's no denying he showed us all just that with Russia being victorious and him becoming tourney MVP).

I think it's time to lift the rose colored glasses, AK is not an ego maniac and superstars make trade demands all the time. You don't seem to be concerned about Kobe's and J.O's attitude when they did the exact same thing this summer. Yet you would be all for them coming here? Please.

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't see what your not getting here... Sloan's system is terrible for AK-47. It's that simple, he just doens't have a spot. This leads to people saying he is overpaid and is just plain not as good as his contract indicates.

AK has finally become vocal about it simply because he's tired of all the criticism he's getting for being an underacheiver when it is not his fault (at least not entirely, I don't think at all but i'm sure someone will want to argue otherwise). Can you blame a guy for that? Absolutely not.

His attitude is NOT a problem. He is not an Artest or a Kobe, he just wants out because he has no spot on the roster to maximize his talents. At Eurobasket he was given that opportunity to showcase what he can do (and there's no denying he showed us all just that with Russia being victorious and him becoming tourney MVP).

I think it's time to lift the rose colored glasses, AK is not an ego maniac and superstars make trade demands all the time. You don't seem to be concerned about Kobe's and J.O's attitude when they did the exact same thing this summer. Yet you would be all for them coming here? Please.

How can you mention not using his talents then mention Kobe? The Lakers organization has failed Kobe many times. They have failed to get talent around him that can win and be serious contenders.

Did you seem concerned with Kobe made his trade demands? I can look all over these trends to find where people called out Kobe for wanting to be traded. They even call him a rapist, when in fact he did NOT rape anyone. As of matter of fact, the accuser dropped her case, but we still hear the Kobe is a rapist comments everytime someone mention Kobe coming here.

How can you say that Sloan's system has failed him? The players play the game on the floor. AK is not out of place. He plays out of place, because he thinks he can shoot outside, when in fact he cant. As of matter of fact, he has ZERO inside game as well. He is a garbage basket type of player on offense. If he would put forth more effort, he could still do this, if he stops crying all the time. Stop crying and play ball.

Another difference with Kobe, is that right now he is not calling out his HOF coach. His HOF coach agrees with him as well, and they both will be gone. You got Phil and Kobe both saying the Laker's organization is not fielding a competitive team. They are wasting the prime years of Kobe, so yes, that is different based on those two reasons. And please dont ever compare the best player in the league to AK. That is a disgrace to every NBA player that ever played.

ANY team that would NOT pick up Kobe is a sorry excuse for a team. And I feel that 100% of the teams in the league would get Kobe if they could match up the numbers to make the trade. Lastly, AK is not a Superstar as well.

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 05:29 PM
I think it's just more of an issue of wanting to have that passion to play again even if that means going back to Russia. Obviously he isn't happy where he is and he wants to reignite that fire within him. Can't blame a man for that.

The Jazz just need to start looking into deals and get something done.
So 60 something million dollars NOT good enough for passion???? Just like all the negative comments about Spreewell feeding his family on 7 million? A person would have the Passion of Christ for 60 million ;) ;) I think it maybe something other than passion, because 60 millions is on the table.

Underdog
09-21-2007, 05:44 PM
Lastly, AK is not a Superstar as well.


Which is exactly why he's worth discussing - we can't afford a superstar or even trade for one... We need a solid role-player and he does fit that description...

F*ck Kobe - it's not even a possibility so why bring that trash into this thread?

Tokey41
09-21-2007, 05:49 PM
How can you mention not using his talents then mention Kobe? The Lakers organization has failed Kobe many times. They have failed to get talent around him that can win and be serious contenders.

Just because Kobe doesn't have talent around him doesn't mean HIS individual talents were being minimized. He IS the Lakers.


Did you seem concerned with Kobe made his trade demands? I can look all over these trends to find where people called out Kobe for wanting to be traded. They even call him a rapist, when in fact he did NOT rape anyone. As of matter of fact, the accuser dropped her case, but we still hear the Kobe is a rapist comments everytime someone mention Kobe coming here.

I wasn't concerned, I would have traded for Kobe in a second. But you know what? It's not realistic. I happen to think AK coming here is realistic, even if it took Josh it is still a possibility. I have never called Kobe a rapist, I have nothing against the guy and the Mavs would be insanely lucky to land him for what I presume we can land AK for.

How can you say that Sloan's system has failed him? The players play the game on the floor. AK is not out of place. He plays out of place, because he thinks he can shoot outside, when in fact he cant. As of matter of fact, he has ZERO inside game as well. He is a garbage basket type of player on offense. If he would put forth more effort, he could still do this, if he stops crying all the time. Stop crying and play ball.

Because it HAS failed him, when you have Boozer dominating the low post (and don't get me wrong he's better in there than AK would be), AK has no room to operate where he is comfortable. Their offense is too similar. And AK does NOT think he can shoot outside, thats where Sloan wants him on offense. Did you miss the "robot" quote he has? He was following coaching instructions. If you think he has ZERO inside game then you need to watch some of his Eurobasket performances, tell me where the points came from. He was sure hitting at a high %, so either he does have inside game or he was just incredibly lucky at shooting those jumpers we know he misses in the NBA.

Another difference with Kobe, is that right now he is not calling out his HOF coach. His HOF coach agrees with him as well, and they both will be gone. You got Phil and Kobe both saying the Laker's organization is not fielding a competitive team. They are wasting the prime years of Kobe, so yes, that is different based on those two reasons. And please dont ever compare the best player in the league to AK. That is a disgrace to every NBA player that ever played.

How am I comparing AK to Kobe? Well for one Kobe would be a much bigger headache than AK ever would be to deal with drama wise (I don't know how much more evidence you need of that). Don't act like Kobe and Phil haven't had their problems, don't act like Kobe didn't drive Shaq out of town and COST that franchise a few more titles. And now they want more talent. Screw Kobe and his prime, he could still be on a competitive team if he didn't have to be the 'man' so soon.

ANY team that would NOT pick up Kobe is a sorry excuse for a team. And I feel that 100% of the teams in the league would get Kobe if they could match up the numbers to make the trade. Lastly, AK is not a Superstar as well.

Thats a matter of opinion, i'm sure every team would want Kobe. AK in my eyes IS a superstar. Your just blinded by your biased set of examples (namely AK playing in Sloans system with Boozer at his side) have you taken into consideration his past performances without Boozer? More recently at Eurobasket as I have constantly suggested you should? No? Then you have no right to label him unfit to be a superstar.

Underdog
09-21-2007, 06:53 PM
So, I guess you are saying that Harris is NOT good enough to be traded? Because I see you wanted to throw trading Jet in my face for a reason...Dont play innocent now. You added Jet to it for a purpose. So, is Harris a good enough player to be traded to Utah?

Is Harris good enough to be traded? Yes. Would I trade him for AK? No. Would I trade JET? Yes. (but only if we got a backup PG out of the deal)...

I mentioned Terry because I wouldn't take any lesser player than Kirilenko for JET and I don't think most teams in the NBA would trade a greater player for JET...

You need to get your posters straight because I could give a sh!t about you... "Don't play innocent"? WTF are you talking about? Get over yourself... :rolleyes:

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 07:22 PM
Is Harris good enough to be traded? Yes. Would I trade him for AK? No. Would I trade JET? Yes. (but only if we got a backup PG out of the deal)...

I mentioned Terry because I wouldn't take any lesser player than Kirilenko for JET and I don't think most teams in the NBA would trade a greater player for JET...

You need to get your posters straight because I could give a sh!t about you... "Don't play innocent"? WTF are you talking about? Get over yourself... :rolleyes:

Your statement don't even make sense. You think highly of AK, but would not trade Harris for him????????? That itself tells me you dont know what you are talking about. Even the pro-Harris camp would trade Harris for AK. So, I guess Harris is a superstar as well, and you dont want to trade down to get AK for Harris?

Underdog
09-21-2007, 08:09 PM
Your statement don't even make sense. You think highly of AK, but would not trade Harris for him????????? That itself tells me you dont know what you are talking about. Even the pro-Harris camp would trade Harris for AK. So, I guess Harris is a superstar as well, and you dont want to trade down to get AK for Harris?


I never said Harris was a superstar, so stop putting words in my mouth (a tendency I've noticed from you over a couple different threads towards several different posters...)

My opinion is based solely on my feeling that Harris would make a better PG for this team (especially with AK-47 in the lineup) than Terry would... If we had to lose one of them, I'd choose Terry - Harris is going to be around a lot longer and still has upside, whereas Terry has peaked...

And I don't belong to a "camp" - that's ridiculous... I'd rather have AK & keep both Harris AND Terry, but I can't have my cake and eat it too...

Stop being so stand-offish... Remember, we're all rooting for the same team here!

skylive321
09-21-2007, 08:32 PM
Tension with the mavs fans this year.. will you all cool it already, especially you silk, i used to think you always had something influencial to post but lately, its just a constant rant. Chill dude, it's ok when others dont agree with your point. It's a FORUM!! meaning, different points of views..
fo·rum Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhm, fohr-uhm] Pronunciation Key
1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
we bounce ideas off each other, you like terry, i like dirk, and Underdog likes Harris... Big deal!!

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 10:19 PM
I never said Harris was a superstar, so stop putting words in my mouth (a tendency I've noticed from you over a couple different threads towards several different posters...)

My opinion is based solely on my feeling that Harris would make a better PG for this team (especially with AK-47 in the lineup) than Terry would... If we had to lose one of them, I'd choose Terry - Harris is going to be around a lot longer and still has upside, whereas Terry has peaked...

And I don't belong to a "camp" - that's ridiculous... I'd rather have AK & keep both Harris AND Terry, but I can't have my cake and eat it too...

Stop being so stand-offish... Remember, we're all rooting for the same team here!

I did not say you belong to the pro-Harris camp. Re-read my post again. You are trying to twist my words to say that dont respect opinions. That is simply NOT true. None of my posts says that. My posts backs up claims to NOT trade Jet. I reply to people who just want to trade off Jet for no reason or make up reasons to trade him because he did not play as well this playoffs.

I have had many discussions about this issue in the PM, and we all agree to disagree, and we understand both viewpoints. But, lately there has been alot of Jet bashing going on, and when people are bashing Jet, then you sneak in your Jet trade jabs along with them, then you get caught up in the crossfire.

I made a good pact with several of the pro-Harris camp members, and they are not attacking Jet like the past. But, it seems that a select few have decided to pick up and continue this bashing Jet mess. I have said many times that I really like Harris and fully support him. But, this other mess with bashing/jabbing at Jet has got to stop from Mavs fans. That is my whole point. If you claim we are rooting for the same team, then support Jet just like the rest of them. Then you will see I wont post back like this.

SUPPORT Jet. Jet is a Mavs player and is a very valuable piece to this team. All I ask is support all of the Mavs. That simple...:cool:

Silk Smoov
09-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Tension with the mavs fans this year.. will you all cool it already, especially you silk, i used to think you always had something influencial to post but lately, its just a constant rant. Chill dude, it's ok when others dont agree with your point. It's a FORUM!! meaning, different points of views..
fo·rum Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhm, fohr-uhm] Pronunciation Key
1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
we bounce ideas off each other, you like terry, i like dirk, and Underdog likes Harris... Big deal!!

I understand, but people dont have to bash Jet like that. I take it personal, because I am a big Jet backer, and he does not deserve these insults from Mavs fans. You are new here, so maybe you have not been paying attention to all this trade Jet non-sense. I am very active, so I notice all of those posts about trading Jet. If you just scan, then maybe you miss all of that, and when you see my posts, then it seems like I am ranting. I am sick and tired of some of the Mavs fans turning on Jet like that.

We all have favorite players for the Mavs. I like them all, and am a avid season ticket holder, but enough is enough on the Jet trade jokes. I expect things like this from trolls, but not from Mavs fans on a constant basis. I can understand right after the playoff series with GS, because I even called for Dirk's head. We all were upset about our Mavs, but that was back in May. It is damn near October and the Jet bashing is still here. That is unacceptable to me, and many other Mavs fan. I am just more vocal in my posts about it. I am sorry if I seemed like I was just ranting, but I just think we should support our Mavs, especially now that the season is about here. Dont you think so?

MavsX
09-21-2007, 10:51 PM
the mavs were never in the AK-47 race to begin with.

skylive321
09-22-2007, 08:50 AM
I understand, but people dont have to bash Jet like that. I take it personal, because I am a big Jet backer, and he does not deserve these insults from Mavs fans. You are new here, so maybe you have not been paying attention to all this trade Jet non-sense. I am very active, so I notice all of those posts about trading Jet. If you just scan, then maybe you miss all of that, and when you see my posts, then it seems like I am ranting. I am sick and tired of some of the Mavs fans turning on Jet like that.

We all have favorite players for the Mavs. I like them all, and am a avid season ticket holder, but enough is enough on the Jet trade jokes. I expect things like this from trolls, but not from Mavs fans on a constant basis. I can understand right after the playoff series with GS, because I even called for Dirk's head. We all were upset about our Mavs, but that was back in May. It is damn near October and the Jet bashing is still here. That is unacceptable to me, and many other Mavs fan. I am just more vocal in my posts about it. I am sorry if I seemed like I was just ranting, but I just think we should support our Mavs, especially now that the season is about here. Dont you think so?

i respect that man.. i agree with you

Underdog
09-22-2007, 09:53 AM
I did not say you belong to the pro-Harris camp. Re-read my post again. You are trying to twist my words to say that dont respect opinions. That is simply NOT true. None of my posts says that. My posts backs up claims to NOT trade Jet. I reply to people who just want to trade off Jet for no reason or make up reasons to trade him because he did not play as well this playoffs.

I have had many discussions about this issue in the PM, and we all agree to disagree, and we understand both viewpoints. But, lately there has been alot of Jet bashing going on, and when people are bashing Jet, then you sneak in your Jet trade jabs along with them, then you get caught up in the crossfire.

I made a good pact with several of the pro-Harris camp members, and they are not attacking Jet like the past. But, it seems that a select few have decided to pick up and continue this bashing Jet mess. I have said many times that I really like Harris and fully support him. But, this other mess with bashing/jabbing at Jet has got to stop from Mavs fans. That is my whole point. If you claim we are rooting for the same team, then support Jet just like the rest of them. Then you will see I wont post back like this.

SUPPORT Jet. Jet is a Mavs player and is a very valuable piece to this team. All I ask is support all of the Mavs. That simple...:cool:


Who's "bashing" JET? ME?? Did you read what I wrote??? No, you didn't... (and you seem to be lumping different posters into the same persona)

I clearly stated that I'd love to have both JET and Devin on the team - how's that a "bash"? I said that if I could choose one, I'd chose Devin - how's that a "bash"?

If I chose Terry instead, would it be a "bash" against Devin? And why do you seem to be taking it so personally? Don't say it's because you're a "fan" because how is "bashing" one Mav's player any better/worse than "bashing" another?

Also, I didn't say anything about your accusation regarding the pro-Harris/Terry camps... I was simply stating that I don't believe in "camps" and I could care less about what you think I said because the words are clearly stated above - you can read them however you want, but nowhere in what I said did I even HINT that I care about what you did/didn't think about what I did/didn't say...

Oh, and the only PM I ever got from you was a negative rep reading: "Dumb post!!!!!!"... Wow, what an in-depth "discussion" we had about Jason Terry!

Can you see what's happened here? We're talking semantic "you-said-I-said" bullcrap rather than talking about basketball... The circle that we're dancing has NOTHING to do with the topic, it's just a personal attack to feed your ego (which you'll absolutely PROVE with your retort...)

Once again: we're all rooting for the same team here...

(there are Rockets trolls who show more respect to the posters on this board than you do)

dirt_dobber
09-22-2007, 10:02 AM
Utah Jazz: Williams rips Kirilenko
The Jazz point guard says his disgruntled teammate needs to work harder on his game

The Jazz point guard says the forward was 'the first one out the door' after practice
By Steve Luhm
The Salt Lake Tribune

Utah point guard Deron Williams wants Andrei Kirilenko back with the Jazz next season, but hopes his unhappy teammate brings an improved work ethic with him.

In a Friday afternoon radio interview on 1280 The Zone, Williams told Salt Lake Tribune columnist Gordon Monson and co-host Kevin Graham that Kirilenko can be "a special player for us" if he returns with the right attitude.

Referring to teammates Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur, Williams said, "You see Booz after practice shooting for 25 or 30 minutes. You see Memo shooting for 20 minutes. You see, you know, all the rookies. The young guys. You saw [Rafael Araujo] in there working. [Then] you see Andrei being the first one out the door."

As the Jazz's quarterback, Williams admitted he has looked for other targets with his passes because of Kirilenko's approach to the game last season.

"If he's coming off a screen on one side and Matt [Harpring] is coming off a screen on one side, who do you think you're going to pass to?" Williams said.

"You think you're going to pass to the guy you see working every day in the gym or are you going to pass to the guy who never works on his shot but yet wants to shoot 'em every time?"

Asked if Kirilenko's work ethic was a problem, Williams said, "I would say so."

Kirilenko averaged 8.3 points and 4.7 rebounds last season, when the Jazz won 51 games during the regular season and reached the Western Conference finals.

Those numbers are about half of what Kirilenko produced during his best season in 2003-04, when he averaged 16.5 points and 8.1 rebounds.

After leading Russia to the EuroLeague championship last week, Kirilenko was named the tournament MVP and lashed out at the Jazz and veteran coach Jerry Sloan. He demanded a trade and eventually suggested he was so unhappy that he might walk away from the $63 million that remains on his contract, which runs through 2011.

"I haven't been paying much attention to it," Williams said. "[But] I'll bet he's here on the first" of October.

The Jazz open training camp Oct. 2 in Boise.

"I've said before, we need Andrei," Williams said. "He's a great player for us. He can be a special player for us. There are not too many guys in the NBA who can come up and attack you like he can.

"He had a great EuroLeague tournament over there. He played well, got the MVP. I'm sure his confidence is up. But I don't see anyone walking away from $60 million."
What if Kirilenko does not return?

"It will definitely hurt us," Williams said. "But at the same time, guys don't want to sit across the locker room from a guy who doesn't want to be here. . . . I love Andrei - like him as a player, like him as a person. He can definitely be a special player for us. But he's not going to average 20 points a game."

Williams suggested that part of his job next season will be to help Kirilenko regain the confidence he lost last year: "I've got to get him ways to get him more touches, where he's comfortable and not just shooting jumpers because that's really not A.K.'s game. He'll be the first one to tell you that.

"But he can still work. . . . If you work on your shot, it's going to improve. Just because you can't shoot doesn't mean you shouldn't work on it - shouldn't mean you just give up on it. We definitely need to find ways - post him up more, [get him] slashing to the basket more. Find ways to utilize him within the offense."

Williams defended Sloan, who has been a target of harsh criticism from Kirilenko.
"I'm trying to win," Williams said. "I could be mad at Coach Sloan. I could hate Coach Sloan more than anything. But I'm still going to play for him, still going to play hard."

In a story published Friday in Russia's Sport-Express, Kirilenko repeated his desire to leave Utah and sever ties with the Jazz and Sloan.

"For the past two years, I've been going on the court and acting like a robot," Kirilenko told the newspaper. "When I signed my contract, the future looked completely different."

Jazz vice president of basketball operations Kevin O'Connor said earlier this week that Kirilenko is under contract and is expected for the start of training camp. Contacted Friday night, O'Connor declined any further comment.

Jack.Kerr
09-22-2007, 10:13 AM
Jason Terry has a GREAT work ethic, Deron.


"If he's coming off a screen on one side and Matt [Harpring] is coming off a screen on one side, who do you think you're going to pass to?" Williams said.

You think you're going to pass to the guy you see working every day in the gym or are you going to pass to the guy who never works on his shot but yet wants to shoot 'em every time?

I love Andrei - like him as a player, like him as a person. He can definitely be a special player for us. But he's not going to average 20 points a game."

No, not if the point guard is being a petty punk. Your job, Deron, is to get everybody involved, not monitor post-practice attendance.

Williams suggested that part of his job next season will be to help Kirilenko regain the confidence he lost last year: "I've got to get him ways to get him more touches, where he's comfortable and not just shooting jumpers because that's really not A.K.'s game. He'll be the first one to tell you that.

So Williams really failed in this part of his job last season?

Wow, just astounding frankness from Williams. Players rarely 'fess up so explicitly to this type of pettiness. Frankly, it's a lot clearer now why AK would want out of there. And even though DW says he wants him back, this kind of talk would seem to make it less likely.

Look south and east, Comrade.

Silk Smoov
09-22-2007, 11:40 AM
Who's "bashing" JET? ME?? Did you read what I wrote??? No, you didn't... (and you seem to be lumping different posters into the same persona)

I clearly stated that I'd love to have both JET and Devin on the team - how's that a "bash"? I said that if I could choose one, I'd chose Devin - how's that a "bash"?

If I chose Terry instead, would it be a "bash" against Devin? And why do you seem to be taking it so personally? Don't say it's because you're a "fan" because how is "bashing" one Mav's player any better/worse than "bashing" another?

Also, I didn't say anything about your accusation regarding the pro-Harris/Terry camps... I was simply stating that I don't believe in "camps" and I could care less about what you think I said because the words are clearly stated above - you can read them however you want, but nowhere in what I said did I even HINT that I care about what you did/didn't think about what I did/didn't say...

Oh, and the only PM I ever got from you was a negative rep reading: "Dumb post!!!!!!"... Wow, what an in-depth "discussion" we had about Jason Terry!

Can you see what's happened here? We're talking semantic "you-said-I-said" bullcrap rather than talking about basketball... The circle that we're dancing has NOTHING to do with the topic, it's just a personal attack to feed your ego (which you'll absolutely PROVE with your retort...)

Once again: we're all rooting for the same team here...

(there are Rockets trolls who show more respect to the posters on this board than you do)

Underdog,
I am through with the Jet/Harris stuff, but please you just seem to 4get that the negative reps started with you. Did it not?

That is crazy for you to even mention trolls, but when you bash Jet like that, then I consider that as a troll, so yes I may treat trolls with little respect. But, like I said. I am through with it. If you continue, then you will be talking alone w/o me.

Silk Smoov
09-22-2007, 11:46 AM
Utah Jazz: Williams rips Kirilenko
The Jazz point guard says his disgruntled teammate needs to work harder on his game

The Jazz point guard says the forward was 'the first one out the door' after practice
By Steve Luhm
The Salt Lake Tribune

Utah point guard Deron Williams wants Andrei Kirilenko back with the Jazz next season, but hopes his unhappy teammate brings an improved work ethic with him.

In a Friday afternoon radio interview on 1280 The Zone, Williams told Salt Lake Tribune columnist Gordon Monson and co-host Kevin Graham that Kirilenko can be "a special player for us" if he returns with the right attitude.

Referring to teammates Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur, Williams said, "You see Booz after practice shooting for 25 or 30 minutes. You see Memo shooting for 20 minutes. You see, you know, all the rookies. The young guys. You saw [Rafael Araujo] in there working. [Then] you see Andrei being the first one out the door."

As the Jazz's quarterback, Williams admitted he has looked for other targets with his passes because of Kirilenko's approach to the game last season.

"If he's coming off a screen on one side and Matt [Harpring] is coming off a screen on one side, who do you think you're going to pass to?" Williams said.

"You think you're going to pass to the guy you see working every day in the gym or are you going to pass to the guy who never works on his shot but yet wants to shoot 'em every time?"

Asked if Kirilenko's work ethic was a problem, Williams said, "I would say so."

Kirilenko averaged 8.3 points and 4.7 rebounds last season, when the Jazz won 51 games during the regular season and reached the Western Conference finals.

Those numbers are about half of what Kirilenko produced during his best season in 2003-04, when he averaged 16.5 points and 8.1 rebounds.

After leading Russia to the EuroLeague championship last week, Kirilenko was named the tournament MVP and lashed out at the Jazz and veteran coach Jerry Sloan. He demanded a trade and eventually suggested he was so unhappy that he might walk away from the $63 million that remains on his contract, which runs through 2011.

"I haven't been paying much attention to it," Williams said. "[But] I'll bet he's here on the first" of October.

The Jazz open training camp Oct. 2 in Boise.

"I've said before, we need Andrei," Williams said. "He's a great player for us. He can be a special player for us. There are not too many guys in the NBA who can come up and attack you like he can.

"He had a great EuroLeague tournament over there. He played well, got the MVP. I'm sure his confidence is up. But I don't see anyone walking away from $60 million."
What if Kirilenko does not return?

"It will definitely hurt us," Williams said. "But at the same time, guys don't want to sit across the locker room from a guy who doesn't want to be here. . . . I love Andrei - like him as a player, like him as a person. He can definitely be a special player for us. But he's not going to average 20 points a game."

Williams suggested that part of his job next season will be to help Kirilenko regain the confidence he lost last year: "I've got to get him ways to get him more touches, where he's comfortable and not just shooting jumpers because that's really not A.K.'s game. He'll be the first one to tell you that.

"But he can still work. . . . If you work on your shot, it's going to improve. Just because you can't shoot doesn't mean you shouldn't work on it - shouldn't mean you just give up on it. We definitely need to find ways - post him up more, [get him] slashing to the basket more. Find ways to utilize him within the offense."

Williams defended Sloan, who has been a target of harsh criticism from Kirilenko.
"I'm trying to win," Williams said. "I could be mad at Coach Sloan. I could hate Coach Sloan more than anything. But I'm still going to play for him, still going to play hard."

In a story published Friday in Russia's Sport-Express, Kirilenko repeated his desire to leave Utah and sever ties with the Jazz and Sloan.

"For the past two years, I've been going on the court and acting like a robot," Kirilenko told the newspaper. "When I signed my contract, the future looked completely different."

Jazz vice president of basketball operations Kevin O'Connor said earlier this week that Kirilenko is under contract and is expected for the start of training camp. Contacted Friday night, O'Connor declined any further comment.

Great article. This goes to show that I was right about AK. He does not want to work hard, and his attitude is bad. We have the coach, Utah VP and Deron all saying the exact same thing about AK. They even mentioned how he is not a good shooter as well. I truly believe the Mavs staff dont want someone like this on this Mavs team. This also dispels all the rumors about how AK is just mad because they are mis-using him in the game. The problem is AK and his work ethic. Now watch the Deron bashing start from some here becaue he spoke up against a sorry, lazy AK..

Tokey41
09-22-2007, 12:57 PM
Your right about AK because Williams agrees with you? Okay there... (and for the record I don't see ANYONE bashing Jet in this thread). Wanting to trade him is not bashing, if it was then you would have been 'bashing' Dirk early in the offseason when you wanted a trade for KG.

And as far as AK's game goes it looked pretty damn good at Eurobasket when his PG was in fact giving him the ball. I don't think he really needs to work on it, he's been a scapegoat for that entire team, yet another reason it's not surprise he wants out. Like Jack said, Deron shouldn't be blaming AK, he should be blaming himself for not doing his job as a playmaker. He states that jumpers are not AK's game, yet whenever he passed him the ball thats all he was in position for... does that make sense to anyone here?

Mavs Rule
09-22-2007, 01:39 PM
Kirilenko wants out; Dallas an option?
By Matt Carter | September 22nd, 2007
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Andrei Kirilenko wants out of Utah. That seems to be the general consensus, at least with the increasing number of stories the Salt Lake Tribune is publishing about it.

Kirilenko initially told the Russian Sport Express of his desire to move away from Jerry Sloan and Utah, which also claims he would be willing to walk away from the $63 million remaining on his contract in order to do so. The most recent story suggests that Utah’s teammates don’t even necessarily want him back. In an interview with radio station 1280 The Zone Deron Williams openly criticized Kirilenko’s work ethic, claiming he was “always the first guy off the court” and didn’t always feel the desire to pass to him over some of the harder-working players.

If this news doesn’t indicate Kirilenko will be traded (or possibly be off to Europe) soon, I don’t know what will. Jerry Sloan’s not going to be willing to put up with an unhappy player from an extended period of time, and Kirilenko has said he’d be willing to join up with any franchise just as long as it’s not the Jazz. I’d assume there to be at least 12 to 15 teams that would at least make a call about Andrei, even in spite of the recent claims about his work ethic.

Would Dallas be one potential suitor? It’s hard to imagine that they wouldn’t at least make a call. Kirilenko is one of the better defenders in the NBA, and his offensive game (with the exception of last season) is pretty solid. He seems like a perfect player at the 3 position to run alongside Dirk Nowitzki.

As with all trades, the problem would simply be sending off an attractive package that Utah would be willing to accept. We can pretty much assume that Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, and Devin Harris aren’t being dealt anytime soon. Most of the trade rumor talk this summer has centered on Jason Terry, and his salary would put a massive dent in acquiring AK47. It would take another player to make the deal, possibly Greg Buckner. Buckner would actually be a decent fit in Utah due to his defensive intensity and ability to shoot the three ball (even if he didn’t show it much in Dallas). The problem would more or less be finding a spot for Terry on the Utah roster. With Deron Williams most of their minutes at the PG position will be taken, and starting Terry at the 2 would give Utah a pretty small backcourt. We were willing to start both Terry and Harris, but I’m not sure Utah wants to give up that much size in the backcourt. Terry would probably take on a role similar to Derek Fisher last season, as a guy to hit open shots and provide energy.

Personally I’d like to see if it is possible to execute a trade without sending Terry away, as I think he’s been an important part of the team for the past three years. Unfortunately I’m not sure Utah would want Jerry Stackhouse and his injury problems, or Erick Dampier and his contract. DeSagana Diop may intrigue them simply because he’d be a good compliment on defense to Carlos Boozer, but if we included him there’d still be a good bit of salary to accumulate. Therefore you’d probably have to get a third team involved, but I’m not sure any other team would be that interested without getting Kirilenko in return. It would probably have to include a good many players and salary, more change than Dallas really needs.

As much as I like Kirilenko’s game, I don’t think it’s very likely that a trade will happen with Dallas. Donnie Nelson has made it pretty clear this summer that unless he is offered a “home run deal” he’s not making any moves. Getting Kirilenko would be a solid move, but unless we found a way to not include Terry, Howard, Harris, or Dirk I’d hardly consider getting AK47 a home run.

I’ll have more as the story develops.

Dirkgreatness
09-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Kirilenko doesn't want to return to Utah
Associated Press, Updated 20 hours ago

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Disgruntled forward Andrei Kirilenko is apparently willing to accept any option that will get him away from Utah.

Whether he really has any choices will be up to the Jazz.
Kirilenko repeated his trade request to a Russian newspaper, saying he is unhappy playing the structured style Utah coach Jerry Sloan demands. Unfortunately for Kirilenko, the $86 million deal he signed three years ago has him under contract with the Jazz through 2011.

"For the past two years I've been going on the court and acting like a robot," Kirilenko told Russia's Sport-Express in a story published Friday. "When I signed my contract the future looked completely different — I thought I would play, win and get pleasure from it. Unfortunately, this is out of the question now — even in successful games. This is the worst feeling."

Kirilenko, who just led Russia to the European championship, said he is even considering leaving the NBA and signing with a European team. But he can't do that while Utah still holds his rights.

And the Jazz may not be very agreeable when Kirilenko's request is based primarily on his deteriorated relationship with Sloan, who is entering his 20th season as Utah's coach. The team's only comment since Kirilenko went public this week has been that he is under contract and expected to be there when practice begins on Oct. 2.

Even team owner Larry Miller, who is openly critical when he's not happy with a player, is not commenting on Kirilenko's request.

Unless Kirilenko and agent Marc Fleisher, who did not return messages Friday, can work out a buyout or persuade the Jazz to trade him, Kirilenko's only options will be to sit out or return for a seventh season in Utah.

"Anyway, while my contract with the Jazz is in place, I don't have the right to negotiate," Kirilenko said. "I think there will be offers. But it's meaningless to talk about that now."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7250782

DirkFTW
09-26-2007, 12:25 AM
AK47 > Terry
Harris/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

AK47 > Harris
Terry/Howard/AK47/Dirk > Harris/Terry/Howard/Dirk

Why are we arguing this point again? I thought this was pretty much common sense.

Utah wouldn't want Harris because they have Deron and Brown at the PG position, however, Terry--they might think about to replace Fisher's role. But honestly, that is not fair to Fisher because the man can play defense.

Utah's Brown headed to Turkey
Associated Press, Updated 1 day ago

...
The Jazz are stocked at point guard and were unlikely to have room for Brown, who played 49 games as a rookie last season. Utah signed guards Ronnie Price and Jason Hart over the summer, giving them two backups to starter Deron Williams.
...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7262042

So Brown is gone, but the Jazz already had a logjam at that spot. I didn't know they signed Hart. I remember him being pretty good alongside Brevin Knight. It looks like there's still only the Fisher-replacement option for getting AK.

alby
09-26-2007, 01:45 AM
make it happen