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View Full Version : I thought Diva Wade knew how to flop! Baron Davis might be the queen of floppers.


dude1394
11-07-2007, 07:12 PM
And "this" is supposed to be "street tough".

http://ballhype.com/story/the_worst_flop_ever/

Flacolaco
11-07-2007, 07:34 PM
That 2nd angle is just god awful.

alby
11-07-2007, 08:48 PM
baron is a top 5 pg in this league. no question about it

mqywaaah
11-07-2007, 10:06 PM
F Baron Davis! No questions about it

mqywaaah
11-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Must've taken a few pointers from this ->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVDIYC13cg

nowhereman
11-08-2007, 12:52 AM
baron is a top 5 pg in this league. no question about it

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoning#Deductive_reasoning

2. There is certainly some question about it. Here are 5 point guards that are unquestionably point guards that make your unfounded assertion untrue.

Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Gilbert Arenas

Here I have raised the question about whether Baron is in the top 5 pg's in the league. Meaning your conclusion is already wrong.

3. Sorry to be a dick, but I feel it's my civic duty.

Dirkadirkastan
11-08-2007, 01:17 AM
EDIT for not making sense: It is perfectly acceptable to be a dick on a Mavs forum when saying Baron Davis isn't a top 5 pg in the league.

thereaper
11-08-2007, 09:49 AM
baron is a top 5 pg in this league. no question about it

I'm not even sure Baron is a PG in this league at all. He's an undersized 2 like JET or the artist formerly known as Steve Francis.

Just211
11-08-2007, 11:19 AM
Okur helped him up?

irontoad
11-08-2007, 02:40 PM
That is priceless... Davis should be suspended a few games for doing something that ridiculous...

Underdog
11-08-2007, 03:33 PM
How do we get Baron Davis nominated for a Razzie?

alby
11-08-2007, 04:33 PM
I'm not even sure Baron is a PG in this league at all. He's an undersized 2 like JET or the artist formerly known as Steve Francis.

in 04/05 he averaged 8.3 assists
in 05/06 he averaged 8.9 assists
in 06/07 he averaged 8.1 assists
in 07/08 he is averaging 9.8 assists

next please.

alby
11-08-2007, 04:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest Baron hater here.. living in Oakland and watching him play and be injured the last three years have pissed me off. I'm also the biggest CP3, Deron, and Agent 0 backer as well--but I can not discount B-Diddy's ability to lead his team at the PG position.

I think as far as point guards go, Nash is the best at what he does and no one even comes close (offensively).

But right below him, I think Baron is right there.

DirkFTW
11-08-2007, 05:50 PM
B-Didda FTL!

nowhereman
11-09-2007, 11:49 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest Baron hater here.. living in Oakland and watching him play and be injured the last three years have pissed me off. I'm also the biggest CP3, Deron, and Agent 0 backer as well--but I can not discount B-Diddy's ability to lead his team at the PG position.

I think as far as point guards go, Nash is the best at what he does and no one even comes close (offensively).

But right below him, I think Baron is right there.

right but i'm questioning it. so you're automatically wrong when you say there's no question about it.

next please.

ty
11-09-2007, 11:53 AM
right but i'm questioning it. so you're automatically wrong when you say there's no question about it.

next please.

Yah...you're definitely gonna have to re-explain what you mean...

nowhereman
11-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Yah...you're definitely gonna have to re-explain what you mean...

If someone exists that can reasonably question the axiom that Baron Davis is a top 5 pg in the league, that person makes that axiom no longer unquestionable
I am someone that can reasonably question the axiom that Baron Davis is a top 5 pg in the league
therefore I make that axiom no longer unquestionable

hook 'em!

Rocketball4Life
11-10-2007, 01:04 AM
Sorry, but Baron cannot be the queen of all floppers. That title belongs to Devon Harris.

alby
11-10-2007, 01:27 AM
Devin and Battier

DOMINATOR
11-10-2007, 02:08 AM
Devin and Battier
battier doesnt flop that much. devin flops 3 to 1 ratio to battier.

the GSW vs. Mavs game was flop city showdown. Baron/Devin/Biedrins/Dirk/Monta
along with those guys Varejao, Iverson, Fisher, Okur, Ginobili, Wade, Nash. probably missed some.

dude1394
11-10-2007, 02:20 AM
The whole houston team flops, it's ridiculous. Battier, franchise, mcgrady, yao, all of 'em. Not to mention the new power forward, he's the worst flopper of them all.

All of the houston fans flop all over the place. The whole town is a flop.

DOMINATOR
11-10-2007, 02:38 AM
The whole houston team flops, it's ridiculous. Battier, franchise, mcgrady, yao, all of 'em. Not to mention the new power forward, he's the worst flopper of them all.

All of the houston fans flop all over the place. The whole town is a flop.
should probably change the name then... the 'Houston Flops' the logo could be a pussy or a fish.

alby
11-10-2007, 02:49 AM
battier was flopping before devin was even a maverick.

AxdemxO
11-10-2007, 05:11 AM
I hate whn Devin flops and he does it a lot. Eveen whn there is actual contact he tries to flop and make it look worse and its very noticeable..soo I hope the refs dont start gettin on him

haywoodjay
11-11-2007, 12:21 AM
please tell me there's a youtube of manu's ridiculous flop against the rockets earlier this week.

it would've made stockton sick.

chumdawg
11-11-2007, 01:39 AM
I'm sorry, but that is one sweet flop. No one ever said the game wasn't about gamesmanship. Baron is a competitor through and through, before the whistle and after. I would kill to have him on this Mavs team.

As for Battier, he is a sweet flopper, too. I remember seeing a video segment where he outlined the finer points of drawing the charge. I don't hate on the guy! As I said, it's all gamesmanship. If you can get the call, it's good for you.

Remember that's it all a show, and that the competitors are just players. Don't hate the player, brutha, hate the game.

alby
11-11-2007, 02:14 AM
^ spoken from a true baller

spreedom
11-11-2007, 10:13 AM
I hope calling that "gamesmanship" was a joke, but with chum the ubertroll, it's tough to tell.

alby
11-11-2007, 12:19 PM
flopping is part of the NBA game, which means players who flop = gamesmanship

I really don't see how fans can get mad over flopping--have you guys not seen NBA officiating in the last 10 years?

Usually Lurkin
11-11-2007, 02:28 PM
traveling is also part of the NBA. So is the star system of officiating. So are "momentum" calls that go for the team that the crowd is cheering loudest for. So is a lousy playoff structure that rarely sees the best 2 teams matched up in the finals. None of that makes the game better, though.

And look at that video of Davis again (or half of those by Wade, or whomever) and tell me if your first thought is "what a gamer. " More likely, your first thought is "what a wuss. what a punk. I hope someone slaps him."

alby
11-11-2007, 03:04 PM
nope it doesn't make the game better. athletes, however, don't care about making the game better--they care about winning so they can make money. if that means adjusting to the horrid NBA officiating, then he will do what he has to do.

chumdawg
11-11-2007, 03:57 PM
nope it doesn't make the game better. athletes, however, don't care about making the game better--they care about winning so they can make money. if that means adjusting to the horrid NBA officiating, then he will do what he has to do.Excellent point. I have heard Cuban on several occasions talk about how NBA players are smart, and whatever changes to the rules the league decides to make, players will be smart enough to adjust to them. What the players are doing now is adjusting their game to the way the game is presently officiated.

You don't have to watch any NBA game long to see something that would loosely qualify as "flopping." It's everywhere. It's part of the game.

When you think about it...if you can get a possession back...or even free throws in the right situation...isn't that doing a lot to help your team win? What is the alternative? Maybe the guy scores on you? We talk about "basketball IQ"...well, there you go.

And for those who think flopping is a wussy move or whatever...I was in favor of the idea that was bounced around about calling techs on flopping. That's how you remove it from the game. But since the league doesn't want to remove it, the smart players will keep doing it.

It's as much a skill as "getting to the foul line" is...which often is as disingenuous a competitive measure as flopping, if you think about it.

AxdemxO
11-11-2007, 08:03 PM
I totally agree theres players tht are smart and know wht they r doin out there and you cant even tell tht they r flopping. And I think thrs anything wrong with tht. Buit there r players like Varajeo tht make it soo obvious its drives me crazy..and Harris has been making it obvious lately.

Usually Lurkin
11-11-2007, 08:21 PM
nope it doesn't make the game better. athletes, however, don't care about making the game better--they care about winning so they can make money. if that means adjusting to the horrid NBA officiating, then he will do what he has to do.
If you like that in your sports, go watch wrestling. I think most people would rather see basketball, so they complain about the poor officiating, the flopping, etc. etc.

chumdawg
11-11-2007, 08:26 PM
Wrestling is scripted. The NBA is not scripted, at least as far as I know. But, it does have rules that you can exploit.

Why does it bother people that some players do a better job than others of using the rules to their advantage?

alby
11-11-2007, 09:55 PM
If you like that in your sports, go watch wrestling. I think most people would rather see basketball, so they complain about the poor officiating, the flopping, etc. etc.

UL

I love the NBA. I am not faulting the players for adjusting their game in accordance to how they are being officiated--that to me, is the difference between watching an officated professional game v. a 5 on 5 pickup game.

The guy runs at you, instead of going for the block or making his shot difficult, NBA players have adjusted because of the refs to get into position and draw the charge (mostly by exaggerated flopping).
You have the ball, triple threat position, the defender puts his hand in between the ball and and your side--all you do is swing your arms through it and draw a shooting foul (is it BS? yes--but it's how offensive players have adjusted to the game)
You have position to jump up for a defensive rebound, however, the ball bounces over your head--you exaggerate by flying forward and draw a loose ball foul--bs, but happens quite often in an NBA game.
You are guarding your player, a pick comes your way, you take on the pick but instead of trying to go through it and catch up to your guy, you fly off exaggerating the contact to draw the foul.

there are many many examples of how the game is not as "pure" as you think. If you think the NBA is all about shooting, running, and dribbling--then we are definitely not watching the same games on TV.

Usually Lurkin
11-12-2007, 08:06 AM
It's not about how pure anyone thinks the game is, it's about how junked up people want the game to be. And have you looked at the video of the Baron? It's not an example of any of the "gamesmanship" plays you mentioned. He's trying to make it look like Okur gave him a cheap shot. It's not even in play. It's not a standard part of the game to which players have already adjusted. Davis is trying to stretch the flop into new territory of idiocy. It wasn't even good acting. If that much contact actually made Davis fall to the ground like that, then it would be safe to say that Davis is the weakest player in the league. Because it's such an obvious flop, it's easy to say it's the wussiest move I've ever seen. Watch it again. Do you want that to be part of the NBA that you love? Honestly, as hard as I try, I can't imagine how you are defending him.

mqywaaah
11-12-2007, 08:44 AM
I have no problems with floppers as long as they dont flop against our team. And as long as their last names aren't Wade or Davis.

alby
11-12-2007, 11:21 AM
I'm not referring to Baron. I was talking about Battier/Devin flopping.

Baron's "play" is just pure show for the refs and fans--some of it might even be comical on Baron's part.

Dtownsfinest
11-12-2007, 11:51 AM
Wow. Now we don't like floppers? We have one of the king floppers in Devin Harris on our team. We still like him though right? My only complaint about flopping is that with Devin's small frame he's going to take some unwanted lick's from players attempting charges. Aside from that flopping is a part of the NBA. I don't want to see guys like Dampier or Dirk doing it though. Strictly the point and 2's.

And i'd agree with Baron Davis being a top 5 point guard. Chris Paul? Deron Williams? All it takes is one great season to be better than Baron Davis who's been doing it for back when those guys were in high school? Steve Nash is the only guy without question a better point guard than Baron Davis. Jason Kidd at this point of his career doesn't offer anything more than Baron Davis does aside from his passing.

TheBlueVan
11-12-2007, 01:00 PM
flopping needs to get out of this league. there's so much thats messed up with the nba that i dont even watch games other than the mavs anymore... the level of skill is down, the level of referee BS is up, and time and again we see CRAP like this rewarded with a foul. excuse me while i go watch football with the rest of america

nowhereman
11-12-2007, 05:42 PM
i don't think some of you guys understand the difference between flopping and taking a charge.

it is pretty impossible to get hurt flopping. by definition.

Dtownsfinest
11-13-2007, 01:34 AM
Flopping and charging are the same thing IMO. You have to recieve contact in order to sell a flop. I'd say the same for a charge. Its all under the same umbrella IMO.

nowhereman
11-13-2007, 03:26 AM
Flopping and charging are the same thing IMO. You have to recieve contact in order to sell a flop. I'd say the same for a charge. Its all under the same umbrella IMO.

i think getting in position to have contact knock you to the ground is a legitimate basketball play. It requires anticipation and quickness, key principles that basketball players should embrace.. I think wailing your arms around after minimal contact (or something to that effect) is horrid. There are lots of times where Manu or Wade have just crumpled to the ground for no reason. It's basically manipulation of a referee, which is not a principle of basketball play.

I believe there is a huge difference.

JeopardE
11-13-2007, 12:53 PM
Flopping and charging are the same thing IMO. You have to recieve contact in order to sell a flop. I'd say the same for a charge. Its all under the same umbrella IMO.

No you don't. If you don't believe me, try watching Fabricio Oberto on a regular basis trying to guard the perimeter. Heck, just watch Devin Harris.

Shane Battier is a charge taker. I've seen him receive gashes in the head and have to run to the locker room for treatment, multiple times. The guy knows what it means to give up his body for a charge, and rarely will you see him exaggerate contact. Steve Nash (despite the vitriol he gets for it) usually gives up his body to take a real charge -- I rarely see him flop. The stuff that Manu, Oberto, Harris, Bell et al do ... that's what flopping is.

Flacolaco
11-13-2007, 12:55 PM
Why do people have issues with Harris flopping?

He gets the damned foul called on him every single time.

Find something else to bitch about, because that doesn't even make sense.

Big Boy Laroux
11-13-2007, 02:36 PM
Why do people have issues with Harris flopping?

He gets the damned foul called on him every single time.

Find something else to bitch about, because that doesn't even make sense.

as a a fan of the mavs, that's exactly why i have a problem with him doing it. that he gets called for the foul.

rather than playing strong D, he flops. Best case scenario, he somehow draws the charge call, and i have to live with the fact that we have a flopper on our team. Middle case, there's no call, and the defender suddenly doesn't have anyone guarding him. Worst case, the foul goes against Devin (which it should, for ridiculous flopping).

that's why i hate it when devin flops. it;s a no-win situation.

Flacolaco
11-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Forgive me, I had assumed he was complaining from an opposing teams' point of view.

I think he's getting better at it. But he certainly has those games where he regresses.

Big Boy Laroux
11-13-2007, 03:54 PM
he may have been complaining from the opposing teams point of view, but i certainly hate it from a mavs fan point of view.

alby
11-13-2007, 03:59 PM
Devin Harris is rated the best defensive PG in the NBA. Whatever he is doing, is okay in my book.

Big Boy Laroux
11-13-2007, 04:06 PM
I do think Harris is quick and can be a great defender. But flopping (which he obviously does) is not good defense to me. He doesn't need to do it.

and just cause i have no idea where you got that rating, i have to ask. where did you get that rating?

alby
11-13-2007, 04:08 PM
To me, it's not good defense either. But according to the NBA officated game, it is. It's sad, but flopping 2 charges to draw two quick fouls on Nash, Baron, Gilbert, etc is very effective IMO.

dalmations202
11-13-2007, 04:52 PM
I think Vlade Divac opened an acting school in LA when he retired. 1st Valedictorian - Manu 2nd year Valedictorian DWhislte 3rd year Varejao

All the others are pretenders like Harris, SuperSpare, Nash, Oberto, and Bell. They just don't have the acting ability.

alby
11-13-2007, 04:53 PM
honorable mention.

bernardos70
11-13-2007, 05:31 PM
The problem is that the charge is such a f*cked up call in the NBA. It's usually not called if there isn't flopping. If someone bulldozes into Devin and he doesn't flop, he won't get the call. If he just gets pushed back, the last thing that'll happen is he gets the call in his favor. There's a pretty high chance that he might be whistled for the foul even though he didn't commit it. So it's either flop and maybe get the call, or get constantly bullied without a call. It's a gamble, but that's the way I see it.

And f*ck Baron Davis.

alby
11-13-2007, 07:07 PM
^ and it's the player's (Devin) job to adjust =]