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View Full Version : Heat, Hawks to replay final minute of Dec. 19 game


AxdemxO
01-11-2008, 04:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421

Hhaha this is interesting...I didnt know thye could do this. They should also replay tht game I think it was Magic vs. some1 and they said the last second tip wasnt good, but it looked good...idk its just new to me

AxdemxO
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
the few reactions on the bottom are interesting too

Underdog
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
Stupid, stupid, stupid...

It looks to me like 2 teams have to pay for the mistakes of the officials...



It amazes me that hundreds of people are murdered in this country every day and David Stern isn't one of them...

spreedom
01-11-2008, 05:00 PM
I love how Stern deflects the officiating error to the entire Hawks organization.

Darth Ape
01-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Nice of the NBA to slip this piece of news out right before EOB on a Friday before 4 major NFL playoff games, ensuring that talk radio spends almost no time talking about it

Tokey41
01-11-2008, 05:11 PM
I wonder how much tickets to that minute long game would cost.

bernardos70
01-11-2008, 05:42 PM
I can't really blame the scoring table people. Can you imagine how boring it is to score Miami @ ATL? Bet you'd lose track too.

fluid.forty.one
01-11-2008, 06:46 PM
wow... that's really weird. I didn't know they could do that either.

antoinewalker
01-11-2008, 07:30 PM
wow, that's interesting.

ty
01-11-2008, 07:36 PM
That's pretty gross if you ask me. Can we replay the Finals?

MavsX
01-11-2008, 07:42 PM
That's pretty gross if you ask me. Can we replay the Finals?

no bro.

DevinHarriswillstart
01-12-2008, 01:11 AM
Of course the Mavs protested something against Indiana this year and was not surprisingly ignored. This Miami thing is definitely a result of Mr. Donaghy.

Dirkadirkastan
01-12-2008, 01:42 AM
This is incredibly disgusting; there has never been such an obvious bias toward personnel. TJ Ford's made bucket, i.e. two actual points on the scoreboard late in a tight game, mean nothing to the NBA, while Shaquille's (isn't that a girl's name?) presence is the only reason for this do-over.

So will the Timberwolves be able to take a mulligan whenever the league mistakenly claims Mark Madsen fouls out? Or does the player have to be "this good" in order for the protest to be honored?

They're only doing this because it's Shaq. Or maybe even because it's the Heat. This league has zero dignity.

horse900703
01-12-2008, 09:21 AM
I wonder how much tickets to that minute long game would cost.
haha, im wondering too~~

EricaLubarsky
01-12-2008, 11:00 AM
I wonder how much tickets to that minute long game would cost.
a $50 seat would cost you 95 cents.

alby
01-12-2008, 11:17 AM
50 dollars

fluid.forty.one
01-12-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't see the point of this cause it's not like Miami is gonna get in the playoffs anyway

me770706
01-12-2008, 01:55 PM
ive never seen anything like this. it makes me think though, why doesnt the nba replace all those worthless scorers who sit courtside with computers? scorekeeping/foulkeeping mistakes shouldnt happen

u2sarajevo
01-12-2008, 02:41 PM
Didn't the Lakers and the Spurs replay an ending back in the 80's? The Lakers had won originally but the Spurs took the game in the replay?

EricaLubarsky
01-12-2008, 02:47 PM
I don't see the point of this cause it's not like Miami is gonna get in the playoffs anyway
they just have to flub it up for another minute if they want that lottery ball

StackAttack
01-12-2008, 03:52 PM
This might get weird. From the Fanhouse:

Some flavor of detail regarding the circumstances in which 51 seconds of a protested December Heat loss to Atlanta will be replayed are surfacing. The Miami Herald passes on word that players marked inactive for the December game won't be eligible be the March affair, and it's possible any players acquired in trades between now and then will be ineligible as well. Jason Williams and Smush Parker were inactive; Atlanta's Josh Smith had already fouled out, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It's going to be one weird minute of basketball.

But it's unlikely it will get as weird as a replayed 1979 game the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Branson Wright relives on his blog.

[T]he most interesting do-over was on March 23, 1979. That's when the Philadelphia 76ers and the New Jersey Nets finished a game that began on Nov. 8, 1978. After the league upheld a protest by New Jersey, the game resumed from the point of infraction -- late in the third quarter.

Eric Money, Harvey Catchings and Ralph Simpson became the first players in professional sports history to play for both teams in the same game ... because they were traded by the 76ers and the Nets before the game was resumed. ... In the box score, Money scored 23 points for New Jersey and four points for the 76ers.

skylive321
01-12-2008, 03:58 PM
I wonder how much tickets to that minute long game would cost.
well, they are scheduled to play the hawks anyways today. so they'll have the fans going to tonight's game, just watch the finish of that minute game .. and then they'll play their scheduled game tonight.

SeattleMavsFan
01-13-2008, 05:20 PM
how is David Stern still in power? What a blatant biasedness torwards the heat. I also love how he blames the Hawks for the "problem". I'm not one to say something like this but David Stern should be killed. He is ruining the NBA. Sadly, even when he is no longer commish, he will had probably brain washed somebody else to take his place that is just like him. I hope not though. I hope we get a legit commish that cares about NBA basketball and not just certain teams and players.

Dirkadirkastan
01-13-2008, 11:22 PM
On Nov. 24, 2006, the official scorer failed to credit Toronto's T.J. Ford with a basket that would have given the Raptors a late tie and an opportunity to change the outcome of a 97-93 loss.

"Because of this conduct by Atlanta's personnel, Miami suffered a clear competitive disadvantage, as O'Neal -- the Heat's second-leading scorer and rebounder that night -- was removed from a one-point game with only 51.9 seconds remaining," the NBA statement said.

Dear Stern,

Nothing impacts the outcome of a game quite the way points do. Including Shaq.

-dirka

Dtownsfinest
01-14-2008, 02:09 AM
I don't see the point of this cause it's not like Miami is gonna get in the playoffs anyway


In the East whree you can make hte playoffs being an under .500 team I wouldn't rule out the Heat just yet.

EricaLubarsky
01-14-2008, 04:23 AM
Eric Money, Harvey Catchings and Ralph Simpson became the first players in professional sports history to play for both teams in the same game ... because they were traded by the 76ers and the Nets before the game was resumed. ... In the box score, Money scored 23 points for New Jersey and four points for the 76ers.
That is so amazingly wild.

DirkFTW
01-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Dear Stern,

Nothing impacts the outcome of a game quite the way points do. Including Shaq.

-dirka
Dear Dirka and World,

Nothing demoralizes a championship-bound team more than missing out on 51 seconds worth of free throws. We, as a free society, simply cannot ignore the shots that are owed to the Miami Heat. After all, you cannot spell "freedom" without the free in free throws. Somehow, in the shuffle of the day-to-day rigmarole, we have forgotten what made this league great: Wade at the line. Over and over again. In the spirit of the new year, this free society must return to what made it great.

-Emperor Stern

aquaadverse
01-15-2008, 03:45 PM
"how is David Stern still in power? What a blatant biasedness torwards the heat. I also love how he blames the Hawks for the "problem". I'm not one to say something like this but David Stern should be killed. He is ruining the NBA. Sadly, even when he is no longer commish, he will had probably brain washed somebody else to take his place that is just like him. I hope not though. I hope we get a legit commish that cares about NBA basketball and not just certain teams and players."

The scorer ruled Shaq fouled out. Reilly and the stats people informed the scorers of the error, and they refused to change it. The scoring staff are employees of the Atlanta Hawks, who are responsible for their conduct.This is not a subjective issue, it's the ability to count to 6. After the mistake was pointed out with the clear evidence, they still refused.That made it willful and deliberate. Aside from your rather pathetic victimhood going as far as wishing for the death of another human being over a game, I don't understand having problems with it. If the scorer had added 15 points and refused to change it and Stern had ordered the game replayed from that point would that make it easier for you? It's the same thing according to the rules.

fluid.forty.one
01-15-2008, 04:06 PM
That is so amazingly wild.

yeah, that's insane.

Underdog
01-15-2008, 04:18 PM
as far as wishing for the death of another human being over a game


That was me - I want Stern dead... Not so much because of "a game", but because he's a crooked thief (how do you call millions of dollars in sports booking "a game"?) You want "a game"? Eliminate the gambling & the criminal element, then we'll talk about it being just "a game"...

I just want his mafia buddies to tire of him, then wax him...


Also on the hit list:

Paris Hilton
George W Bush
Your Mom (sorry - it's business, not personal...)

Dirkadirkastan
01-15-2008, 05:02 PM
If the scorer had added 15 points and refused to change it and Stern had ordered the game replayed from that point would that make it easier for you? It's the same thing according to the rules.

BS. It's not the same thing. Points >> Shaq.

Did you read the part of the official statement by the NBA I quoted earlier in this thread? Shaq's contribution prior to the incident was stated as the reason for the replay.

The NBA should treat all players equally in executive decisions. You don't declare the significance of an error just based on the theoretical value of the skills of the victimized player. They should assume all players have the same height, the same weight, and the same skills, and they should not assume any player will contribute more than any other.

I am absolutely enraged by this decision. It's not just because of the isolated incident though; I'm looking at it in terms of what happened last year. Toronto WAS denied two actual points they had already earned. When David Stern declared those two points (which would have tied the score with only a few minutes left) were not significant enough to potentially change the outcome of the game, he basically told the NBA that there would be no replays as long as he was commissioner. Nothing determines the outcome of a game as decisively as points do, right?

If the incident with Toronto hadn't happened, or if they had been granted a replay, then this replay would be easier to swallow. As it is, Stern has a lot of explaining to do in terms of his standards for deciding what's worth replaying and what isn't.

DirkFTW
01-15-2008, 05:35 PM
If the scorer had added 15 points and refused to change it and Stern had ordered the game replayed from that point would that make it easier for you? It's the same thing according to the rules.
Emperor Stern denied us our petition when the scorers incorrectly added points for our opponent. Emperor Stern has spoken.

StackAttack
01-15-2008, 05:51 PM
Can you protest in the playoffs? You'd think the Mavs would've protested the lost seconds in that Finals game...

Dirkadirkastan
01-15-2008, 11:08 PM
Can you protest in the playoffs? You'd think the Mavs would've protested the lost seconds in that Finals game...

We have decided that the full 1.5 seconds which remained on the final possession was plenty of time for the Mavericks to adjust. The four lost seconds would have made no difference regarding the outcome of a pivotal NBA Finals game.

chumdawg
01-16-2008, 12:09 AM
The NBA should treat all players equally in executive decisions. You don't declare the significance of an error just based on the theoretical value of the skills of the victimized player. They should assume all players have the same height, the same weight, and the same skills, and they should not assume any player will contribute more than any other.You are being awfully narrow-minded here, if not naive. Under what theoretical conditions that you would propose would any player's contribution necessarily be equivalent to every other player's?

What is at play here is a fairly simple concept. To have your appeal granted, you need to show damages--whatever the circumstances of the alleged injustice. I'm certain you recognize this, based on your arguments below, so I don't know why you would try to paint Shaq as the same skill, height, and weight as every other player on the rosters.

Nothing determines the outcome of a game as decisively as points do, right?

...Stern has a lot of explaining to do in terms of his standards for deciding what's worth replaying and what isn't.Again, this is a pretty simple concept. Points score or don't score ONCE. A player who is wrongfully denied participation in the contest can--but does not necessarily, mind you--impact points scored (or not scored) possibly many times over, depending on the circumstances of the injustice.

You are normally a rational thinker, so I can't understand why you are unable to wrap your mind around these concepts.

Dirkadirkastan
01-16-2008, 01:42 AM
Two questions for you, Chum:

1) If you were commissioner, would you have honored the protest like Stern did?

2) If Mark Madsen was the victim in place of Shaquille O'Neal, would you still honor the protest?

chumdawg
01-16-2008, 06:10 AM
1) Probably not.

2) Probably not.

Jack.Kerr
01-16-2008, 08:35 AM
What if Shaq is injured and can't play when they attempt to replay the game?

Underdog
01-16-2008, 09:02 AM
What if Shaq is injured and can't play when they attempt to replay the game?


Then the win goes to the Heat by default (no questions asked...)

Afterall, Shaq would have scored 20 points in the last minute - he has a Superman tattoo, so you know he's super!

Dirkadirkastan
01-16-2008, 07:30 PM
1) Probably not.

2) Probably not.

Good. I agree.

I find it extremely important that these two answers be the same, positive or negative. I know we don't have two real situations with two different players, but the NBA statement sure sounded like the replay was issued due to O'Neal's potential. The fact he was their second highest scorer seemed to be their justification in granting the replay.

I believe the NBA should be consistent across the board. You either give replays to all players in that situation or none of them. The NBA must be unbiased in all situations.

The decisions the NBA makes shouldn't be based on anything subjective. I find the expected contribution a given player will make in the future to be a subjective issue. However, real points on the scoreboard are not subjective. They have already been earned, and have a quantifiable value. Yes, they only count once, but they're still the only thing that counts at all at the end of the day. It doesn't matter if you are the Dream Team; you still lose if you have fewer points than the other squad.

Granting a replay for something subjective and denying a replay for something objective is deplorable.

StackAttack
02-06-2008, 08:33 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/06/heat.hawks.replay.ap/index.html

If Shaq's not eligible this time around either, is this replay still really necessary?

AxdemxO
02-06-2008, 10:22 PM
Hahhaha this just became very interesting...since he the reason they are replayin it

Dirkadirkastan
02-06-2008, 10:30 PM
Yeah, now they get Marion's six fouls.

Stern sucks.

Jack.Kerr
02-06-2008, 10:50 PM
Yeah, now they get Marion's six fouls.

Stern sucks.

I'm not sure if Marion is eligible to participate in the replay.

Pat Riley just made monkeys out of Stern and Stu Jackson.

Dirkadirkastan
02-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Why not?

Earlier in the thread someone mentions a past replay where several players ended up playing for both teams.

Jack.Kerr
02-06-2008, 11:04 PM
Why not?

Earlier in the thread someone mentions a past replay where several players ended up playing for both teams.

Yeah, but they had to play for their FORMER team for the replay.

DirkFTW
02-07-2008, 12:02 AM
Maybe they'll make the Marion wear a fat suit for the game.

Jack.Kerr
03-04-2008, 06:17 PM
Fine the Hawks? But no suspensions for officials who miss calls?

N.B.A. Settles Rules for Replay Game

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 4, 2008

ATLANTA (AP) — Shaquille O’Neal is no longer around, but Mike Bibby and Shawn Marion will be able to suit up for the N.B.A.’s first replay since 1982.

The league set guidelines for Saturday’s do-over between the Atlanta Hawks and Miami Heat, who must complete the final 51.9 seconds of their Dec. 19 overtime game.

The Hawks left the court that night with a 117-111 victory, but Commissioner David Stern struck it from the books after the home team’s statistical crew mistakenly ruled that O’Neal, then playing for Miami, had fouled out with less than a minute to go in overtime.

O’Neal has since been traded to Phoenix, but the league said Monday that the teams can use players acquired since the disputed game. That means the Heat can dress Marion and Marcus Banks, who came from the Suns in the Shaq deal. Likewise, the Hawks will be able to use Bibby, who was picked up from Sacramento.

Miami has 10 players who were active Dec. 19 still on its roster, leaving two openings for the makeup minute. The Heat’s other options are Jason Williams, Smush Parker and Joel Anthony.

The Hawks, who gave up four players for Bibby, have nine active players still around from the disputed game. Also eligible to be added for the replay are Josh Childress, Jeremy Richardson and Speedy Claxton.

Miami will have the ball when the game resumes, trailing by 114-111. After the replay is completed, the teams will get a 15-minute break, then return to the court for their regularly scheduled game at Philips Arena.

The night is vitally important to the Hawks, who are battling for a playoff spot in the Eastern Conference and cannot afford to give up a win against hapless Miami, which has the league’s worst record (11-46).

Stern also fined the Hawks $50,000, ruling they were “grossly negligent” in failing to address the mistake.

Miami’s protest was the first granted by the league since December 1982, when then-Commissioner Larry O’Brien upheld a request for a replay by the San Antonio Spurs after their 137-132 double-overtime loss to the Los Angeles Lakers the previous month. The Spurs and Lakers finally finished the game in April 1983, with San Antonio winning, 117-114.