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V2M
02-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Gasol traded to Lakers
Grizzlies deal star forward for salary cap relief

By Ronald Tillery (Contact)
Originally published 01:31 p.m., February 1, 2008
Updated 01:41 p.m., February 1, 2008

The Commercial Appeal has learned that the Grizzlies have traded Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers for center Kwame Brown, rookie guard Javaris Crittenton and first-round draft picks in 2008 and 2010.

The decision was made that the Grizzlies could no longer move forward with Gasol on and off the basketball court.

The deal allows the Grizzlies to gain salary cap relief, as Brown is in the final year of a deal that pays $9,075,000.

Also today, a Grizzlies source said that forward Stromile Swift has been traded to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins.

The Grizzlies and Nets have been discussing a deal for the past week, and it is expected to be finalized on Monday.

To that end, Swift had a meeting with Griz coach Marc Iavaroni and general manager Chris Wallace Friday, was sent home and did not practice with the team. Swift will not play in Saturday's game against Utah at FedExForum.

More details as they develop.

Underdog
02-01-2008, 02:50 PM
Holy crap...

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 02:52 PM
Interesting.

Fischer. Bryant. Bynum. Gasol. Odum.

Lakers just got tough.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 02:52 PM
I'm not seeing anything on this anywhere.

Dtownsfinest
02-01-2008, 02:53 PM
WTF? That's all it took? Are you serious? The Lakers got him for nothing. Absolutely nothing. Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Kobe. Wow. Mitch finally made a move worth a damn. Made up for trading Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.Still can't believe this deal is even authentic.

Maringa
02-01-2008, 02:53 PM
All I can say is wow!!! The Grizzlies get crap back...and the Lakers are definitely improved with this move. Maybe the Nets can join in on the fire sale and take crap back for Jason....

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 02:54 PM
Nevermind, I saw it on realgm but ESPN has yet to report it.

DirkFTW
02-01-2008, 02:54 PM
I hope it's not authentic... =(

The Lakers have rights to Gasol's brother, right? That would be an interesting pairing.

V2M
02-01-2008, 02:55 PM
Most shockingly one-sided deal in a long while... Lakers are the team to beat in the West now!!

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
This trade doesn't work salary wise.

Dtownsfinest
02-01-2008, 02:57 PM
What other players are being given away? Any the Mavs could have a shot at? Anyone think Gasol would've worked here? I'm on the fence about whether he's a 4 or a 5. I think he can play both but not sure if he'd bring forth more than what Damp does on the defensive end and not sure if the reward on offense is enough.

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 03:00 PM
It's in the Memphis papers, so i think there's something to it.

And it just showed up in the LATimes.

If the Grizz will give up Gasol for nothing, does it mean the Nets might do the same with Kidd?

Dtownsfinest
02-01-2008, 03:02 PM
Papers? Already? They don't recieve newspapers every morning like everyone else lol?

V2M
02-01-2008, 03:03 PM
This trade doesn't work salary wise.

Good point... I hope Bynum is included as well :)

ddh33
02-01-2008, 03:13 PM
Do the Mavs get a little more desperate to add Kidd? Do the Lakers decide that Odom doesn't fit anymore and go after Kidd, or did they just spend everything they wanted to spend?

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 03:15 PM
In order for this trade to work salary wise one of the following would have to be included in the scenario:

-Bynum
-Mihm (expiring contract) 2.5 mil
-Ariza (expiring contract) 3.1 mil
-Farmar
-Vujacic (expiring contract) 1.75mil
-Turiaf (expiring contract) 770k
-Coby Karl

Considering the lopsided amount of talent Memphis would be receiving, I think it would have to be either Bynum, Farmar, or Vujacic.

SaltwaterChaffy
02-01-2008, 03:16 PM
It's absolutely not Bynum, and probably not Farmar. They are high on both.

DevinHarriswillstart
02-01-2008, 03:16 PM
No I think this lessens the value for Kidd. If Gasol isn't worth more then that then you bet your ass Kidd isn't.

twistaeffect2004
02-01-2008, 03:19 PM
This is an absolute heist.

Lakers are now definitive title contenders.

MavsFanFinley
02-01-2008, 03:21 PM
Holy crap. Memphis gave him away. I can't believe Chicago's offer wasn't better.

DevinHarriswillstart
02-01-2008, 03:23 PM
Memphis should just move cities.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I'm hearing rumors now that Memphis may be moving Mike Miller too.

We need to get in on that!

chumdawg
02-01-2008, 03:27 PM
So much for the notion that expiring contracts aren't worth anything.

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 03:29 PM
This is an absolute heist.

Lakers are now definitive title contenders.

Wouldn't say definite contenders, but they are a tougher out.

fluid.forty.one
02-01-2008, 03:29 PM
It's on ESPN now. My friend called me about it.. I can't believe this.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 03:30 PM
AN interesting point brought up in the J.A Adande chat live on ESPN.com

Memphis will have a frontcourt consisting of two of the biggest high lottery busts in NBA History: Brown and Millicic

MavsFanFinley
02-01-2008, 03:30 PM
I didn't see the Swift/Collins trade mentioned in the article already. I'm an idiot.

Ric Bucher is reporting that the Lakers will trade the rights of Marc Gasol to the Grizzlies as well.

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 03:30 PM
So much for the notion that expiring contracts aren't worth anything.

When does Jason Terry's contract expire?

Does he have a per dribble incentive clause?

Flacolaco
02-01-2008, 03:32 PM
Well....Thanks Memphis. That's just great.

Can we please join the Eastern conference?

chumdawg
02-01-2008, 03:32 PM
Look on the bright side. The Lakers just used up their ammo for a Kidd trade!

DevinHarriswillstart
02-01-2008, 03:32 PM
Let's do the van horn contract for Mike Miller.

dalmations202
02-01-2008, 03:33 PM
Dang, someone has something on someone........pictures, papers, something.

fluid.forty.one
02-01-2008, 03:37 PM
I want to hear Kobe's reaction to this...



I still can't believe this. Kwame freakin' Brown for Gasol!!?

V2M
02-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Van Horn + Ager + Pick for Mike Miller would be nice...

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Look on the bright side. The Lakers just used up their ammo for a Kidd trade!

Not necessarily. Some are saying the Lakers could package Odom and someone else for Kidd since Odom works best with the ball in his hands, much like Kobe and Gasol.

fluid.forty.one
02-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Since this is apparently crazy day in the NBA, can we get Kidd for Ager?

V2M
02-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Sources: Grizz sending Gasol to Lakers for Brown

ESPN.com news services

Updated: February 1, 2008, 3:37 PM ET


The Memphis Grizzlies will send Pau Gasol and a future second-round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, the unofficially retired Aaron McKie , the draft rights to Pau Gasol's brother Marc and future first-round picks in 2008 and 2010, NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

It is believed that the Lakers would need to arrange a sign-and-trade for McKie to make the salary cap math work for the deal. McKie is not currently playing in the NBA but his rights are owneed by the Lakers.

According to The (Memphis) Commercial Appeal, which also reported the trade, the Grizzlies decided to move ahead with trading Gasol because the team felt it could not longer move ahead with him off or on the court -- and that the acquisition of Brown, who is earning $9,075,000 in the last year of his contract, would provide the franchise salary cap relief.

The Commercial Appeal also reported that the Grizzlies are sending Stromile Swift to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins. The Grizzlies and Nets have been discussing that deal for the past week and expect to finalize it on Monday, according to the report.

Swift met with Grizzlies coach Marc Iavaroni and general manager Chris Wallace on Friday, was sent home and did not practice with the team and will not play in Saturday's game against Utah, the newspaper reported.

ESPN.com NBA writer Marc Stein contributed to this report.

DevinHarriswillstart
02-01-2008, 03:45 PM
Haha I see the lakers pulled their KVH in Aaron Mckie.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 03:46 PM
Van Horn + Ager + Pick for Mike Miller would be nice...

I could definitely see them jumping on that. They're already doing something like this in the Gasol deal because they're using the retired Arron McKey's contract to make the deal work.

chumdawg
02-01-2008, 03:56 PM
Ah, the old artificial expiring ruse. It's the oldest trick in the book!

God help us if the LakeShow swaps Odom for Kidd.

Dortmund
02-01-2008, 04:01 PM
I can't stand seeing teams get stars for nothing. This is total BS. Chicago gave them so much more yet they turned it down. Memphis, I hate you. I hope their fans go off on this. I hope their franchise rots.

vjz
02-01-2008, 04:05 PM
The West just got tougher...

horse900703
02-01-2008, 04:06 PM
REALLY~~
thats going to help lakers a lot

dirt_dobber
02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
Center- Bynum (when he gets back from injury)[when is that?]
PF- Gasol
SF- Odom
SG - Kobe
PG- Fisher / et al

That is a great lineup.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 04:15 PM
who is the GM in memphis? Kevin McKale? is this a freaking fire sale. what a dumbass. I have never heard of such stupidity. You ask for ODOM, for Bynum, for Farmar, For anyone else... kwame brown. What a dumbasss. what a freaking dumbass. Im sorry guys but u guys realize we are probably going to go thru a team that just got that much tougher because of this dumbass. This is the new face of dumbass
http://www.nba.com/media/grizzlies/wallace-070618-74693803JM009-300.jpg

dirt_dobber
02-01-2008, 04:17 PM
L.A. gave up a real good player in Javaris Crittenton.
That dude can play!

horse900703
02-01-2008, 04:24 PM
Center- Bynum (when he gets back from injury)[when is that?]
PF- Gasol
SF- Odom
SG - Kobe
PG- Fisher / et al

That is a great lineup.
haha, nice~~~

GermanFan
02-01-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/080201gasol_trade.html

The Los Angeles Lakers have acquired forward Pau Gasol in a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies, it was announced today by General Manager Mitch Kupchak. The Lakers will also receive the Grizzlies second round draft choice in 2010. In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010.

Gasol, a 7th year player out of Spain, is averaging 18.9 points, 8.8 rebounds and 1.44 blocked shots per game this season. The 27 year old 7’0” forward/center has career averages of 18.8 points and 8.6 rebounds. A 2006 NBA All-Star and 2001-02 NBA Rookie of the Year, Gasol also won a gold medal with Spain at the 2006 FIBA World Championships while being named tournament MVP.

“We’re extremely pleased to be able to make this trade.” said Kupchak. “Pau is a proven player of all-star caliber in this league who can score and rebound and he’s still a young player. We feel this move strengthens our team in the short term as well as the long term.”


autsch

endrity
02-01-2008, 04:30 PM
people are saying jerry west might have influenced this deal a bit, kind of like mchale-ainge made the KG deal.

The west though got that much tougher. We gotta use KVH's contract for someone, Mike Miller, Ron Artest, or Kidd. And I agree with a point made earlier, if a in-his-prime Gasol is worth this little Jason Kidd can't be that much more. Read today's article on dallasbasketball.com. David Lord makes a great point when he says that the deal that has been presented up to now, is probably driven by the Nets because there is no way the Mavs or Blazers give that much up.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 04:31 PM
Crap. This bites. I'm sure there were plenty of teams in the East with expiring contracts that Memphis could have made a deal with instead. Yet they chose to trade Gasol within the same conference to the team with the best player in the world and got absolutely nothing in return.

Idiots!!

skylive321
02-01-2008, 04:34 PM
kwame brown
2007-08 Statistics

PPG
5.7
RPG
5.70
APG
1.2
EFF
+ 8.74

Pau Gasol
2007-08 Statistics

PPG
18.9
RPG
8.80
APG
3.0
EFF
+ 22.33

at what point in looking at these stats do you say, eureka.... we got a match. Why is it that its always haves and have-nots... F mark cuban, F the nba , f avery johnson, f donnie nelson, f second half josh howard, f the celtics, f the mavs, f pau gasol and kwame brown, f it all. Im cancelling my nba tv until the mavs make a move. see you guys come may or june.

FINtastic
02-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Holy crap, what a deal for the Lakers. The Lakers just moved themselves up to championship contender status again.

Tokey41
02-01-2008, 04:35 PM
"I have dreamed a dream... and now that dream has been taken from me"

If they could get Gasol for cap relief why the hell couldn't we have used KVH's contract and draft picks? Throw Bass and others in there is you have to, this is absolutely ridiculous. He should have been ours!!!

I'm with the people on the whole Chicago package thing... I can't realistically believe their package wouldn't have been better for Memphis. I'm sure it was, it's just... illogical.

It's on ESPN now... everywhere. If they plan on moving Miller as well perhaps we can get in on that.

dalmations202
02-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Did Memphis at least get a Kiss? ? ?

TripleDipping
02-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Expiring contracts were all it took to get Gasol?

Memphis just got robbed highway style.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 04:45 PM
I think every team in the NBA other than the Lakers are scratching their head right now saying: "Geeesh, why didn't we think of that?"

We seriously should have been able to do something with KVH's contract and something else to get Gasol. I just don't see how we didn't try to get in on this one way or another.

What the hell were we doing?

Lakers front office just made everybody else look BAD.

FINtastic
02-01-2008, 04:47 PM
“We’re extremely pleased to be able to make this trade.” said Kupchak.

That's the understatement of the year.

I've been wondering, how are all these idiot GM's like Kupchak and Ainge having these superstars fall into their laps this year? At this rate, we're going to see Kevin McHale pulling the strings on a LeBron deal in a week or two.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 04:48 PM
the nba is a one legged whore named Bertha and David Stern is its pimp.

muzak
02-01-2008, 04:51 PM
damn. the mavs are doomed. how can we contend with all these insane teams just littered with stars? i think our window is gone now. go ahead, get Kidd....might as well take a gamble.

alexamenos
02-01-2008, 04:51 PM
Celtics land Garnett through ridiculous deal from T-Wolves ....

Lakers get even more super ridiculous deal to land Pau.

lakers v. celts! that's got conspiracy written all over it. this is a conspiracy where in Celtic-McHale infiltrated the t-wolves and long-time laker Jerry West infiltrated the Grizz...

granted, West is no longer calling the shots for the grizz....still, this has to be an nba conspiracy to reignite the celts - lakers rivalry.

i'm pretty sure, anyway.

FINtastic
02-01-2008, 04:54 PM
lol, alex, you might just be onto something...

skylive321
02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Celtics land Garnett through ridiculous deal from T-Wolves ....

Lakers get even more super ridiculous deal to land Pau.

lakers v. celts! that's got conspiracy written all over it. this is a conspiracy where in Celtic-McHale infiltrated the t-wolves and long-time laker Jerry West infiltrated the Grizz...

granted, West is no longer calling the shots for the grizz....still, this has to be an nba conspiracy to reignite the celts - lakers rivalry.

i'm pretty sure, anyway.

Its like i said, the nba is a one legged whore named bertha, and david stern is its pimp. all of this sh-t is fake. Im effing tired of this sh-t. Come on, give us a freaking break. Give us one freaking star at a cheap price. when was the last time we got a god deal here? and don't give me that eddie jones or brandon bass bullsh-t. Im a big bass fan, but dont even start comparing him to a gasol.

Dirkenstien
02-01-2008, 04:57 PM
Man I feel bad for those Memphis fans. I don't know what I would do if Dallas pulled a Memphis.

GermanFan
02-01-2008, 04:58 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-30-2/Where-to--Pau-Gasol-.html

Flacolaco
02-01-2008, 04:59 PM
2 #1 picks is always a bit of a price to pay. But I guess Gasol isn't that old, and Bynums left testicle dropped yesterday. And Kobe can probably play until 39 knowing him.

MFFL
02-01-2008, 05:01 PM
What an absolute steal for the Lakers. I can't believe the Mavs couldn't top that offer.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 05:02 PM
I agree with the notion that the Mavs should be burning up the phone to get Mike Miller. A starting lineup of Harris/Miller/Howard/Nowitzki/Dampier would be STOUT.

FINtastic
02-01-2008, 05:02 PM
2 #1 picks is always a bit of a price to pay. But I guess Gasol isn't that old, and Bynums left testicle dropped yesterday. And Kobe can probably play until 39 knowing him.

Do both picks belong to the lakers? If so, two picks at the end of the first round isn't that much to give up.

FINtastic
02-01-2008, 05:02 PM
I agree with the notion that the Mavs should be burning up the phone to get Mike Miller. A starting lineup of Harris/Miller/Howard/Nowitzki/Dampier would be STOUT.

I could go for that.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 05:06 PM
I could go for that.

I advocated dealing Terry for Miller in the summer, before I realized that the Grizzlies were just giving players away. I'd still happily trade Terry in a three-team deal that sent an expirer to Memphis and Terry to the third team.

Harris - Barea
Miller - Jones
Howard - Stackhouse
Nowitzki - Bass
Dampier - Diop

That would allow Stackhouse to return to the role as sixth man and would give us a more well-rounded second unit, IMO. It would certainly improve the starting 5.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 05:08 PM
2 #1 picks is always a bit of a price to pay. But I guess Gasol isn't that old, and Bynums left testicle dropped yesterday. And Kobe can probably play until 39 knowing him.
Flaco I love ya man. I always enjoy the devil's advocate in you . But seriously man, this was a f-cked up deal, made by a GM attempting to doom other teams as his is .

slowmo
02-01-2008, 05:14 PM
The reason we don't get Gasol is because Avery says "We like our team"!

MFFL
02-01-2008, 05:17 PM
Ah, the old artificial expiring ruse. It's the oldest trick in the book!

I imagine that Emperor Stern will close this loophole now that someone has actually used it. Probably all players automatically "retire" two years after their final game.

God help us if the LakeShow swaps Odom for Kidd.

I was looking at that. Odom's contract is only for 2 years - just like Kidd. All the Lakers need to do is add about $2.6M in young talent and the salaries are within the 25% rule.

It could happen

Dr.Zoidberg
02-01-2008, 05:35 PM
Wow, great move from the Lakers.

This is what Kobe ordered. He will be very pleased. Very good team now.

MFFL
02-01-2008, 05:40 PM
And can you imagine the gall of the Lakers asking for a 2nd rounder to finish the trade? Amazing

slowmo
02-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Is there any way we could go in and undercut the deal?

DirkFTW
02-01-2008, 05:47 PM
Is there any way that Gasol has some undisclosed injury/illness that voids this deal during the medical checkup?

wmbwinn
02-01-2008, 05:54 PM
I can't stand seeing teams get stars for nothing. This is total BS. Chicago gave them so much more yet they turned it down. Memphis, I hate you. I hope their fans go off on this. I hope their franchise rots.

their franchise died some time ago. This is just the official funeral announcement. This is the statement that says, "we have to start all over"

Nowitness41
02-01-2008, 05:59 PM
Do you think will force Dallas into doing something or will they just stay the way they are?

Dirkadirkastan
02-01-2008, 06:04 PM
http://www.capitolannex.com/IMAGES1/eric_cartman.jpg

This piss me off!

wmbwinn
02-01-2008, 06:06 PM
Do you think will force Dallas into doing something or will they just stay the way they are?

I'm sure Dallas would offer a similar package that LA gave up for a player. But, barring a similar "abuse me please" offer from a team as desperate as the Griz, then the Mavs "are happy with our team." (Avery).

MFFL
02-01-2008, 06:07 PM
edit

DirkFTW
02-01-2008, 06:23 PM
I don't know if I share Avery's sentiment.

LonghornDub
02-01-2008, 06:23 PM
This is really upsetting. Yet another team the Mavs have to seriously contend with to win a title during Dirk's window.

I wasn't for trading for Kidd if it involved Harris, but this may sway me. The Mavs may need to sell out to win a title before Dirk is done.

MFFL
02-01-2008, 06:38 PM
In another confusing move.

>>>Additionally, a Grizzlies source told The Commercial Appeal of Memphis that forward Stromile Swift has been traded to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins. According to the newspaper, the deal had been discussed for the past week and is expected to be finalized on Monday.

Collins has another year on his contract while Swift expires this year. And Collins makes more money per year.

Why did the Grizz GM make this trade?

Dirkadirkastan
02-01-2008, 06:39 PM
If playoffs started today, it would be #3 Mavericks vs. #6 Lakers.

wmbwinn
02-01-2008, 06:44 PM
In another confusing move.

>>>Additionally, a Grizzlies source told The Commercial Appeal of Memphis that forward Stromile Swift has been traded to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins. According to the newspaper, the deal had been discussed for the past week and is expected to be finalized on Monday.

Collins has another year on his contract while Swift expires this year. And Collins makes more money per year.

Why did the Grizz GM make this trade?

upset with Swift. Want to move him. Need a center...

wmbwinn
02-01-2008, 06:46 PM
If playoffs started today, it would be #3 Mavericks vs. #6 Lakers.

Gasol doesn't scare me much. We have been able to stop him cold with either Diop (especially Diop) or Dampier.

Kobe will always score points.

Playing Bynum with Gasol will force Dallas to adjust its whole game though. Who is going to guard Bynum and who guards Gasol?

Windmill360
02-01-2008, 06:47 PM
Maybe we should start booing Juwan hardcore in hopes that some sucker GM will give us their all star for him.

Usually Lurkin
02-01-2008, 06:53 PM
If they play Odom and Gasol together, then any team with a halfway decent pair of forwards will score 100 points, just from those 2 positions.

MFFL
02-01-2008, 06:58 PM
upset with Swift. Want to move him. Need a center...

Swift is expiring. Let him walk. Use the money to sign a free agent.

Collins can barely play backup minutes so he can't fill much of a need.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 06:58 PM
Gasol doesn't scare me much. We have been able to stop him cold with either Diop (especially Diop) or Dampier.

Kobe will always score points.

Playing Bynum with Gasol will force Dallas to adjust its whole game though. Who is going to guard Bynum and who guards Gasol?
are you serious. we stopped him ya. but he was on a scrappy team and still showed flashes of being outstanding. playing with kobe only makes him that much better and offers them a tandem attack. Like GAC says, watch the damn game. its the broad picture that scares me, not the individual player. think, double double bynum, double double odom, dbl-dbl gasol, dbl-dbl kobe, and a descent point guard. they are about the most complete team in the west now.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 07:05 PM
Good god, Donnie just got pawned and beat like a stepchild. Gasol would look great as a maverick imo, we'd finally have a center who could score and we wouldn't have to go small to do it. Yuck...

Donnie better be shining up his resume because if he didn't see this one coming, he's out of the loop.

Dirkadirkastan
02-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Good god, Donnie just got pawned and beat like a stepchild. Gasol would look great as a maverick imo, we'd finally have a center who could score and we wouldn't have to go small to do it. Yuck...

Donnie better be shining up his resume because if he didn't see this one coming, he's out of the loop.

I would have loved to see the shaggy European duo as our front court.

jthig32
02-01-2008, 07:54 PM
Sorry Dude, Gasol doesn't fit on this team. He doesn't play any defense. You absolutely could not play Dirk/Pau at your 4/5 and expect to compete defensively.

This was a hell of a steal though.

Allow me to echo the thoughts of KG and a few others. Mike Miller as the starting 2 would be fantastic.

bernardos70
02-01-2008, 07:57 PM
Can't explain how pissed off I am. G*ddamn.

With that said, I still would rather have Mike Miller than anyone else on the Grizzlies roster, even Gasol, simply because Mike is that much better a fit. Even though he looks quite queer. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

endrity
02-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Even w/out Gasol tonight the Lakers are looking really good against the Raps. W/Gasol and Bynum this team will be really good. However neither Gasol nor Bynum is really mobile, and small undersized but quick PFs will give them trouble (West, Amare).

skylive321
02-01-2008, 08:05 PM
Can't explain how pissed off I am. G*ddamn.

With that said, I still would rather have Mike Miller than anyone else on the Grizzlies roster, even Gasol, simply because Mike is that much better a fit. Even though he looks quite queer. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
i here u loud and clear.

Janett_Reno
02-01-2008, 08:06 PM
Very nice pick up for the Lakers. This should move them up some in the west. Who knows just how far they could go. Never know in the wild wild west.

bobatundi
02-01-2008, 08:16 PM
This is the new face of dumbass


i have tears in my eyes that is so funny.

RePLAY
02-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Even w/out Gasol tonight the Lakers are looking really good against the Raps. W/Gasol and Bynum this team will be really good. However neither Gasol nor Bynum is really mobile, and small undersized but quick PFs will give them trouble (West, Amare).

Amare is scared of Bynum.

RePLAY
02-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Very nice pick up for the Lakers. This should move them up some in the west. Who knows just how far they could go. Never know in the wild wild west.

I think they were #1 when Bynum got injured. Correct me if im wrong.

nashtymavsfan13
02-01-2008, 08:19 PM
Wow. Just wow.

Windmill360
02-01-2008, 08:22 PM
Kwame will be waived and then join the Lakers again.

WayOutWest
02-01-2008, 08:35 PM
I think they were #1 when Bynum got injured. Correct me if im wrong.

The Lakers were #1 for a day, same day Bynum got injured I believe. It was sweet but short lived for me.

Dortmund
02-01-2008, 08:43 PM
Seriously....

KG & Ray Allen ---> Celtics
Gasol ---> LA

Kind of odd how the two dynasties came back this year without giving up much at all. Really shocks me. I wonder if Stern had something to do with this to boost NBA ratings again.

mary
02-01-2008, 08:43 PM
This is perfectly craptacular news to end a perfectly craptacular day.

Memphis should ban themselves.

mary
02-01-2008, 08:44 PM
Oh hell yeah we should go after Mike Miller.

Windmill360
02-01-2008, 08:46 PM
Trade Tariq Abdul Wahad for Miller.

mavsman
02-01-2008, 08:49 PM
Giving Memphis draft rights to Marc Gasol for Pau is equal to offering the Mavs draft rights to Dirk's sister plus Downsyndromboy Nowitzki in exchange for Dirk. What a rape.

bobatundi
02-01-2008, 09:10 PM
so could we have traded Moe Ager, KVH fake contract, and two late firsts for Gasol? and why the HELL didn't we do that?

DOMINATOR
02-01-2008, 09:25 PM
Kind of odd how the two dynasties came back this year without giving up much at all. Really shocks me. I wonder if Stern had something to do with this to boost NBA ratings again.
yeah, this conspiracy theory is going around.

at least the celtics gave up more than the lakers. Al Jefferson is a very very solid player.

WayOutWest
02-01-2008, 09:39 PM
yeah, this conspiracy theory is going around.


So I guess when Kupchak gave up Shaq to Miami he did it because Stern told him "trust me, it will all work out in the end".

I think all the 20/20 hindsight franchises and their fans have nothing better to do. Seriously, did some GM's fall asleep at the wheel? Did Beeyotch Cupcake finally do some homework? There are stories around the net about the current Grizz owners are trying to sell the franchise so they are trying to make them as financially attractive as possible. Clearing a buch of salaries off the books is one major way to accomplish that task. Sounds like the Lakers took advantage of a desperate situation in Memphis much like Miami took advantage of the desperate situation with the Lakers/Shaq a few years back.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 09:54 PM
so could we have traded Moe Ager, KVH fake contract, and two late firsts for Gasol? and why the HELL didn't we do that?
because, and it hurts me to say it, but i can't resist "We like our team".

dude1394
02-01-2008, 09:54 PM
Sorry Dude, Gasol doesn't fit on this team. He doesn't play any defense. You absolutely could not play Dirk/Pau at your 4/5 and expect to compete defensively.

This was a hell of a steal though.

Allow me to echo the thoughts of KG and a few others. Mike Miller as the starting 2 would be fantastic.

Bullhonkey...Dirk didn't play any defense either until avery got ahold of him. Defense is about want to. We'll start to see gasol play defense for the lakers I expect.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 10:21 PM
I have seen an awful lot of doomsday talk (here and elsewhere). I don't buy it. Somebody asked who our center (Damp/Diop) was going to guard when we play the Lakers. My question is, who's going to guard Dirk? Bynum or Gasol?

They might have the edge at C and SG, but I think we've still got them at PF, SF, and PG.

Just my two cents.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 10:37 PM
I guess the thing that gets me isn't so much that I'm more afraid of the lakers than I was before. What torques my butt is that I'm sure that the mavs would have loved to have had Gasol, loved to have had him.

But didn't sniff the opportunity to get him. It does NOT engender confidence in Donnie.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 10:39 PM
You're making an assumption, but based upon what? What were the Mavs going to offer to beat what the Lakers gave? (NOTE: I'm not saying the Grizz didn't get hosed, because they did.)

Dortmund
02-01-2008, 10:50 PM
so could we have traded Moe Ager, KVH fake contract, and two late firsts for Gasol? and why the HELL didn't we do that?

no we couldnt.. lakers traded a very good young pg. kind of like us including harris but not quiet as much as harris.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 10:59 PM
You're making an assumption, but based upon what? What were the Mavs going to offer to beat what the Lakers gave? (NOTE: I'm not saying the Grizz didn't get hosed, because they did.)

Of course I'm making an assumption. Well I don't know, maybe diop, two rounders, huge cap relief with kvh and 3million. I know when I heard Avery today, he was shocked at how little it took to get Gasol, I expect Donnie was also. I mean I could make it up, but I can see diop+firsts+kvh or pull in a third team. I think they were completely blindsided, obviously my opinion.

Donnie doesn't get the luxury of being shocked at someones value.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 11:03 PM
I have seen an awful lot of doomsday talk (here and elsewhere). I don't buy it. Somebody asked who our center (Damp/Diop) was going to guard when we play the Lakers. My question is, who's going to guard Dirk? Bynum or Gasol?

They might have the edge at C and SG, but I think we've still got them at PF, SF, and PG.

Just my two cents.
dj mbenga.

skylive321
02-01-2008, 11:04 PM
You're making an assumption, but based upon what? What were the Mavs going to offer to beat what the Lakers gave? (NOTE: I'm not saying the Grizz didn't get hosed, because they did.)
bass > kwame.. a better deal. one i would do if the salaries equal out.

Usually Lurkin
02-01-2008, 11:08 PM
I have seen an awful lot of doomsday talk (here and elsewhere). I don't buy it. Somebody asked who our center (Damp/Diop) was going to guard when we play the Lakers. My question is, who's going to guard Dirk? Bynum or Gasol?
.
and that leaves Gasol or Odom (for now) on Josh? When Josh scores 40 in the first half, it won't matter so much what he does in the second.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 11:10 PM
and that leaves Gasol or Odom (for now) on Josh? When Josh scores 40 in the first half, it won't matter so much what he does in the second.

Bingo. I think our forwards would slaughter theirs, same as before.

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 11:12 PM
Of course I'm making an assumption. Well I don't know, maybe diop, two rounders, huge cap relief with kvh and 3million. I know when I heard Avery today, he was shocked at how little it took to get Gasol, I expect Donnie was also. I mean I could make it up, but I can see diop+firsts+kvh or pull in a third team. I think they were completely blindsided, obviously my opinion.

Donnie doesn't get the luxury of being shocked at someones value.

Diop is an expirer, so you're talking about picks and cap relief with no young talent. Still don't think that matches what they got.

I will agree with this, though: If Donnie knew Gasol was available and wasn't trying to obtain him, I'd probably be a bit disappointed.

chumdawg
02-01-2008, 11:14 PM
No one thought Matt Barnes could guard Dirk, either. Or Steven Jackson. I'm just sayin'...be careful about making judgments based on paper. The point is that the Lakers upgraded their team, and the West just got that much tougher. I don't see how anyone is going to get a second-round matchup that they like. It's brutal these days...

Henry_VIII
02-01-2008, 11:18 PM
I guess only one team read the writing on the wall.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9f56110815.jpg

kg_veteran
02-01-2008, 11:19 PM
No one thought Matt Barnes could guard Dirk, either. Or Steven Jackson. I'm just sayin'...be careful about making judgments based on paper. The point is that the Lakers upgraded their team, and the West just got that much tougher. I don't see how anyone is going to get a second-round matchup that they like. It's brutal these days...

Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson can't guard Dirk one-on-one. When did you start regurgitating ESPN?

Anyway, I agree with your other point. The second round will be brutal.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 11:25 PM
Diop is an expirer, so you're talking about picks and cap relief with no young talent. Still don't think that matches what they got.

I will agree with this, though: If Donnie knew Gasol was available and wasn't trying to obtain him, I'd probably be a bit disappointed.

If they wanted to keep diop, isn't that a sign and trade? I mean aren't we picking nits here. Are you saying that you wouldn't have thrown in a terry possibly? I would. Gasol is a flat out stud and would solve our center problems for years. I just don't get it, well, unforutnately I think I do get it, donnie was doing something else.

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 11:40 PM
If they wanted to keep diop, isn't that a sign and trade? I mean aren't we picking nits here. Are you saying that you wouldn't have thrown in a terry possibly? I would. Gasol is a flat out stud and would solve our center problems for years. I just don't get it, well, unforutnately I think I do get it, donnie was doing something else.

This is pure overreaction.

Gasol doesn't fit on the Mavericks, no how no way. You're back to a Raef/Dirk frontcourt defensively.

Dirk needs a big, physical, pick-setting, rebound-grabbing, shot-blocking center beside him. He can hold up his end of the bargain defensively when you put the right type of player beside him.

Dampier and Diop are MUCH better complementary players alongside Dirk than Gasol. You don't diminish Dirk's overall game just to get a former 20ppg scorer on the roster (cf Jamison, Walker).

Lakers improved themselves, no doubt. Gasol is a light years better player than K.Brown, and gives the Lakers an excellent front-court scoring threat. Like Dirk, he should benefit playing alongside a center like Bynum, who rebounds and can defend the rim. But Gasol and Dirk togetehr would be an horrific deja vu.

Calm down already, man.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 11:45 PM
Is that why damp doesn't play last night (but bass does) and diop can't get off the bench?

If they are what's needed, why don't they play?

We'll just have to disagree, I see no reason why a guy 15 pounds heavier than dirk (and 5 pounds lighter than Damp) cannot play center.

From last nights game.

Going small: The Mavericks had success with a small lineup against the Celtics, mostly because centers Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop were ineffective.

Wonder if Gasol would have been effective against a team with no center?

Jack.Kerr
02-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Is that why damp doesn't play last night (but bass does) and diop can't get off the bench?

If they are what's needed, why don't they play?

We'll just have to disagree, I see no reason why a guy 15 pounds heavier than dirk (and 5 pounds lighter than Damp) cannot play center.

I didn't like seeing Dampier/Diop on the bench last night either. And if you noticed, Pierce and Rondo and Allen were flying toward the rim without him in there, and the Celtics were hitting the o-boards pretty well late. I absoultely don't like seeing Avery take that approach.

Listen, you can disagree if you want, but if you think Gasol and Dirk would be a more effective pairing than Damp and Dirk, I honestly don't think you understand very much about the game. It's not about listed heights and weights, it's about skills and abilities. You might as well wonder why Kwame Brown can't be as effective as a scorer as Gasol--after all, they're close to the same size.

dude1394
02-01-2008, 11:57 PM
Listen, you can disagree if you want, but if you think Gasol and Dirk would be a more effective pairing than Damp and Dirk, I honestly don't think you understand very much about the game. It's not about listed heights and weights, it's about skills and abilities. You might as well wonder why Kwame Brown can't be as effective as a scorer as Gasol--after all, they're close to the same size.

Well I do disagree and obviously Avery does as well since he doesn't play diop at all in lieu of bass. I guess neither he NOR I know much about the game.

You bet it's about skills and abilities...And Gasol has a LOT more skills than Damp does.

rabbitproof
02-02-2008, 12:06 AM
The NBA is rigged. This is too crap.

Jack.Kerr
02-02-2008, 12:09 AM
Well I do disagree and obviously Avery does as well since he doesn't play diop at all in lieu of bass. I guess neither he NOR I know much about the game.

You bet it's about skills and abilities...And Gasol has a LOT more skills than Damp does.

That's 3rd-grade logic, Dude. The Mavs got their lunches handed to them last night playing small ball. Damned if I know why Avery went that route, but the final score says it didn't work. He may well go down in flames with his stubbornness if he tries that and fails again with a healthy Dampier in the playoffs.

Gasol has more scoring skills than Damp. But he's not nearly as good a pick setter, rebounder, shot blocker, or physical presence, which is what the Mavs need alongside Dirk.

Do you recall that Dampier OWNED Gasol 2.5 years ago in the 1st round series with the Grizz? OWNED HIM. Had him intimidated and totally neturalized. Gasol shriveled. He's a scorer, plays with a scorer's mentality and doesn't like to mix it up, doesn't respond well to physical play, and shows no inclination to initiate it. He is the exact opposite of the type of player you need playing alongside Dirk.

No reason Gasol should've been on Donnie's radar. Mavericks have the industrial-grade version already in Dirk.

jthig32
02-02-2008, 12:12 AM
Well I do disagree and obviously Avery does as well since he doesn't play diop at all in lieu of bass. I guess neither he NOR I know much about the game.

You bet it's about skills and abilities...And Gasol has a LOT more skills than Damp does.

So because the Mavs went small for one game we no longer need Damp/Diop? C'mon.

On the subject of skill, Paul skills exceed Damp's only on the offensive side of the ball. In defense and rebounding Damp is far superior.

Depends on what you want out of the position I guess. In my opinion most night a Dirk/Gasol frontcourt would simply not be viable.

jthig32
02-02-2008, 12:14 AM
That's 3rd-grade logic, Dude. The Mavs got their lunches handed to them last night playing small ball. Damned if I know why Avery went that route, but the final score says it didn't work. He may well go down in flames with his stubbornness if he tries that and fails again with a healthy Dampier in the playoffs.

Gasol has more scoring skills than Damp. But he's not nearly as good a pick setter, rebounder, shot blocker, or physical presence, which is what the Mavs need alongside Dirk.

Do you recall that Dampier OWNED Gasol 2.5 years ago in the 1st round series with the Grizz? OWNED HIM. Had him intimidated and totally neturalized. Gasol shriveled. He's a scorer, plays with a scorer's mentality and doesn't like to mix it up, doesn't respond well to physical play, and shows no inclination to initiate it. He is the exact opposite of the type of player you need playing alongside Dirk.

No reason Gasol should've been on Donnie's radar. Mavericks have the industrial-grade version already in Dirk.

100% correct.

Fidel
02-02-2008, 12:17 AM
Haven´t read the whole thread but I think alot of people are totally overreacting (as allways).

First: no we shouldn´t have gone after Gasol simply because there is no place for him on the team. His defense totally sucks and there is no way you can play him together with Dirk for longer periods of time.

Second: That´s why him being with the Lakers doesn´t scare me at all. Sure it was a steal, but he´s the prototype of a good player on a bad team. If no one else scores or gets a rebound it´s not that hard to get yours. I don´t think he´ll help the Lakers all that much. And with him, Odom and Bynum on the floor they should be pretty bad defensively. Our forwards will still give them lots of matchup problems.

Third: Getting Miller would be nice. I agree on that. He´d fit in perfectly.

antoinewalker
02-02-2008, 12:25 AM
The West just got tougher...
pau gasol has always been in the west.

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 12:31 AM
If we had Gasol, he would be an upgrade for the way we currently use Bass. Gasol would be our small ball center and back up to Dirk. Gasol is too expensive for that role.

I agree that Gasol can't play center next to Dirk against most top tier teams in the NBA. But, the combination would be effective against Golden State. But, our Bass experiment is effective against Golden State. Gasol would be a role player for Dallas. His role would be scoring center when we desperately need a scoring center more than a defensive/rebounding center (which is not very often).

On another matter, I do not believe Avery has decided that Bass is a better center than Diop or Dampier. I think that Avery has determined that Bass is going to be very important to our playoff run. I think Avery is still viewing the season as only a pre-season to the playoffs. Bass needs to play and improve and learn the system. Besides, Dampier has had injury problems. And, Diop really responds to the bench by exploding when he gets a chance. Wait and see what happens in the playoffs before concluding that you understand what Avery is up to.

mary
02-02-2008, 12:33 AM
Mindless message board entertainment: Going back and reading trade threads after the "real" trade goes through.

Oh dear...

dude1394
02-02-2008, 12:34 AM
So because the Mavs went small for one game we no longer need Damp/Diop? C'mon.

On the subject of skill, Paul skills exceed Damp's only on the offensive side of the ball. In defense and rebounding Damp is far superior.

Depends on what you want out of the position I guess. In my opinion most night a Dirk/Gasol frontcourt would simply not be viable.

One game? the mavs have constantly been looking for a center that can score.

Sure Damp is a better rebounder, he gets 6.9 rpg versus Gasols 8.8 in 14 less minutes. 22 mpg. He only plays 22 of 'em but somehow he's the difference maker? If he were such a difference maker don't you think we'd keep him on the floor for o' maybe 25 minutes a game?

Are you now saying that you wouldn't trade dampier for gasol straight up?
If you are then you are correct I do NOT understand basketball.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 12:38 AM
That's 3rd-grade logic, Dude. The Mavs got their lunches handed to them last night playing small ball. Damned if I know why Avery went that route, but the final score says it didn't work. He may well go down in flames with his stubbornness if he tries that and fails again with a healthy Dampier in the playoffs.

Gasol has more scoring skills than Damp. But he's not nearly as good a pick setter, rebounder, shot blocker, or physical presence, which is what the Mavs need alongside Dirk.

Do you recall that Dampier OWNED Gasol 2.5 years ago in the 1st round series with the Grizz? OWNED HIM. Had him intimidated and totally neturalized. Gasol shriveled. He's a scorer, plays with a scorer's mentality and doesn't like to mix it up, doesn't respond well to physical play, and shows no inclination to initiate it. He is the exact opposite of the type of player you need playing alongside Dirk.

No reason Gasol should've been on Donnie's radar. Mavericks have the industrial-grade version already in Dirk.

You tell me why avery knows so much less than you then and why he uses such third grade logic. Since it's third grade logic. The mavs are only playing this difference maker 22 mpg while they are playing bass the same amount of minutes. Are you now saying that bass is also better than Gasol?

I just don't get it to be honest. I know what damp brings to the party and it's valuable, but I don't see that it's nearly as valuable as what a scoring center would bring us.

I do recall that dampier played gasol very,very well. He plays a lot of guys very well, but he SUCKS offensively. Not just kinda bad, he SUCKS. He can't stay in the game because the other team doubles off him constantly. So we've found a 6'8' center that can score and he plays more than our OTHER center.

But somehow gasol wouldn't be an upgrade to the team. Silly me.

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 12:45 AM
One game? the mavs have constantly been looking for a center that can score.

Sure Damp is a better rebounder, he gets 6.9 rpg versus Gasols 8.8 in 14 less minutes. 22 mpg. He only plays 22 of 'em but somehow he's the difference maker? If he were such a difference maker don't you think we'd keep him on the floor for o' maybe 25 minutes a game?

Are you now saying that you wouldn't trade dampier for gasol straight up?
If you are then you are correct I do NOT understand basketball.

You weren't directly responding to me, but I'll answer anyway.

I'd take Gasol for Damp straight up. Then, I'd trade Gasol for a better big man than Dampier. Gasol would bring more in a trade, so I'd make the trade straight up in a flash. Problem with Gasol is that Gasol's better version is already here (Dirk) and Gasol can't play on the court with Dirk at the same time against most really good teams. Now, put Dirk and Gasol on the same team coached by Nellie or playing for the Suns and suddenly you have an incredible scoring machine. But, coached by Avery, Gasol can't play center next to Dirk against the Spurs or the Rockets or the Jazz or the Suns or the Celtics. But, it would sure be fun to watch a Dirk/Gasol twin PF tower offense. That was always Nellie's wet dream that he could never put together.

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 12:48 AM
You tell me why avery knows so much less than you then and why he uses such third grade logic. Since it's third grade logic. The mavs are only playing this difference maker 22 mpg while they are playing bass the same amount of minutes. Are you now saying that bass is also better than Gasol?

I just don't get it to be honest. I know what damp brings to the party and it's valuable, but I don't see that it's nearly as valuable as what a scoring center would bring us.

I do recall that dampier played gasol very,very well. He plays a lot of guys very well, but he SUCKS offensively. Not just kinda bad, he SUCKS. He can't stay in the game because the other team doubles off him constantly. So we've found a 6'8' center that can score and he plays more than our OTHER center.

But somehow gasol wouldn't be an upgrade to the team. Silly me.

You're losing your temper (I sometimes do also so its ok with me). Consider that I don't think Avery really views Bass as better than Damp/Diop. I think that Bass is just learning the ropes and getting minutes to play a role in the playoffs. Bass is not going to play center against the Spurs or the Rockets or the Jazz or any other team that has a true center on the court who can score (in the case of the Spurs, it is the PF who can score that we guard with our center).

Tokey41
02-02-2008, 12:51 AM
I don't see how people can say that Pau wouldn't help the Mavericks. It's pointless to debate at this point but the fact of the matter is he was our best shot at addressing the one thing we have needed the most over the past few years.

Gasol = inside scoring

That alone would be worth the defensive 'problems', although I think it's an overreaction given that we would probably still have at the very least one of our defensive minded centers (and really Dirk isnt that bad on defense... when is that myth going to go away?)

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 12:53 AM
Gasol absolutely would be an upgrade over Bass. But, he would play the same role as Bass which is:
1)center against teams like the GS Warriors
2)back up to Dirk
3)spot roles where a scoring center is more important than defense

So long as the debate is limited to Bass vs. Gasol, then Gasol wins.

But, in the bigger debate, the problem is that Gasol is too expensive to just replace Bass.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 01:00 AM
Only reason I would get po'd is because avery and I are being accused of 3rd grade logic.

I do not agree that gasol cannot play center, I just don't. Rasheed Wallace can play center.
If Gasol were not asked to carry so much of an offensive load I expect he could play center as well. He's certainly heavy enough.

So I refute that statement.

So continuing with my 3rd grade logic, if I think that Gasol can play center then he's a huge upgrade from damp in the offensive department. Do you think that against GSW's they would have doubled dirk if he could have tossed it into gasol? No.

I've never bought the "fact" that a center has to be some bruiser. He has to be tall enough to alter shots and you'd LIKE for him to be a bruiser, but I see nothing wrong with Gasol physically therefore I see nothing wrong with him playing next to dirk.

If damp were all that then he'd be playing more than 22 mpg. he doesn't because he's such a tremendous liability on offense, tremendous. And bass is playing because he's not an offensive liability, otherwise Diop would be getting those minutes and bass would only get backup ones. I expect Pau would easily get bass's minutes + another 10 from damp/diop. I'd be fine with that.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 01:04 AM
Another 3rd grade logic guy from db.com

I'm confused. I'm not sure how you can say Gasol wouldn't fit. This offseason, the Mavs were considered to have two areas of need.

1. low-post scoring
2. size at the SG

Well, they added size at the SG. I wouldn't call it quality size but it is size. I would say the Mavs failed here in the offseason. They added Bass which has been a pleasant surprise but I wouldn't say that the Mavs have a significant low-post scorer. They made a small step forward in this category, but I don't think the issue was resolved.

Now people discuss how few good low-post scorers there are in the league. Gasol is one of the few. How would he not have addressed a major need? He can play both PF and C. He would be BY FAR the best low-post scorer on the team. How many times has Avery had to go to small-ball because they get nothing offensively out of their centers? Could the Mavs not have made a better deal by sending Diop,KVH,Ager, picks, etc.? Could Gasol not get good minutes at both the Center and PF positions? Is Gasol and excellent defender? No. In those times that Avery must go 4 on 5 offensively because the C's can't cut it, would it not be a great weapon to have Gasol out there? ABSOLUTELY! Can Gasol play some D. Sure. He'll block a few shots. His shortcomings on D are outweighed by the fact that he would actually play and punish teams at the C position offensively.

I just don't see how somebody can say he wouldn't fit here. He fills one of the Mavs greatest needs for years now, low-post scoring. If they can't get him, they may as well be resigned to being a jumpshooting iso team for the foreseeable future. The Mavs had a chance to keep dirk,harris, and howard while adding Gasol and didn't come through. I guess we'll blame it on the system not utilizing a low-post scorer, get exposed in the playoffs for not having a low-post scorer, and then use the offseason to say "we like our team"

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 01:05 AM
I don't see how people can say that Pau wouldn't help the Mavericks. It's pointless to debate at this point but the fact of the matter is he was our best shot at addressing the one thing we have needed the most over the past few years.

Gasol = inside scoring

That alone would be worth the defensive 'problems', although I think it's an overreaction given that we would probably still have at the very least one of our defensive minded centers (and really Dirk isnt that bad on defense... when is that myth going to go away?)

the perfect scoring center that we need is one that is good enough scoring to prevent being ignored and who can play stellar defense. We don't need a skill player scorer with questionable defensive skills. As others have pointed out, Antione Walker did not work and he was a skill scoring center for us who could not play defense. KVH plays defense as well as Gasol. If KVH got minutes, his rebounding would be like Gasol or Dirk. But, Dallas does not need a KVH/Gasol/Dirk/Antione Walker/Sean Bradley center. Dallas needs Elton Brand or Kaman or Rasheed Wallace (playing as a center instead of a 3 point shooter), or Okur, or a younger Boozer, or Yao type centers.

DevinFuture
02-02-2008, 01:43 AM
The Mavericks have quite a good team, but the Los Angeles Lakers could be the team that goes to the Finals...against the Celtics or Pistons.

Talk about full circle.
20 years have gone by and nothing has changed.

chumdawg
02-02-2008, 01:52 AM
Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson can't guard Dirk one-on-one. When did you start regurgitating ESPN?Who said it would be one-on-one? Has it ever been? Would it ever be, with Gasol?

DOMINATOR
02-02-2008, 02:01 AM
i dont think gasol could have played the 5 for the mavs... Dirk/Gasol would be as soft as randolph/curry. (defensively anyway)

however i think avery could have tried: pg- harris, sg- howard, sf- dirk, pf- gasol, c- dampier
tall lineup for sure... would have been interesting if it worked.

mavs would be better off going after kidd instead of gasol... which it looks like they are.

Underdog
02-02-2008, 02:40 AM
Fazekas defense > Gasol defense

;)

Nash13
02-02-2008, 04:36 AM
This could easily turn into 2004 Lakers all over again.

Dirkadirkastan
02-02-2008, 05:11 AM
I guess only one team read the writing on the wall.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9f56110815.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/shadyparadox/firesale.png

OH my GOD!! We're having a FIRE!!!

...sale...

minkbarn
02-02-2008, 09:31 AM
I have a question for Mavs fans. (I'm a Celtics guy, so I've got no perspective on this.):

*Do you think the Gasol deal almost forces the Mavericks to make a trade for Kidd or another impact player?*

(As a side note I wept with joy when Chris Wallace left Boston. Every move he ever made was horrible.)

jthig32
02-02-2008, 09:35 AM
Dude, no one is saying that Gasol can't play center. He can. He would look real nice playing next to say Kurt Thomas, I think. Maybe some others that I can't think of right now.

And yes, Gasol is a better player than Damp. A significantly better offesnvie player. obviously.

However, this is not fantasy basketball. The way a player fits on a team is important. And while Gasol would vastly improve our inside scoring, our inside defense would be horrific. No one would be able to guard the rim.

In stretches it would work. Against certain teams it would work. But in my opinion it would not be a viable option for this team on a regular basis.

Now, that doesn't mean that I still wouldn't have kicked the tires. He was so dang cheap you could've gotten him and figured the rest out later. But imo, Gasol would not have been any magical solution to our problems, whatever they may be.

Also, I think you keep missing the point on WHY some people don't think he could play center next to Dirk. It has nothing to do with body type, his natural position of PF or any of that. It has to do with his skillset and what he does best. And he's a horrible defensive player. I would actually say he's easily a worse defender than Dirk. Not only that, while he IS a better low post offensive player than Dirk, it's not like we're talking about Tim Duncan here. I think he's a "pretty good" low post player who supplements it with a lot of face-up jumpers. His offensive game is not all that different from Dirk's, except he plays it a bit closer to the basket, and he's not nearly as good.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 10:06 AM
I've never believed (and still do not) that players don't play good defense because they lack a skill set. I just don't. In my opinion it's mostly a mind-set. Others don't, okay.

If you are talking about trying to stay in front of someone then yes I'll agree. It would be very difficult for bowen say to stay in front of devin. If you are talking mind-set then maybe I'll give it to you, but there's nothing in Gasols physical attributes to say to me that he cannot play center. He won't be the same as damp/diop for sure, but he'll be a heck of a lot better than Bass would be.

I fail to see how (and continue to) replacing Damp with Gasol is going to be a net negative.

Let's see we are comparing Damp/Diop to Gasol's offense and you throw out there that
he's not a duncan???????? If Gasol is not a duncan then what is Damp/Diop? Not a spud webb?

The only low-post offense we are getting now is a dampier dunk and thats off a pass not at the rim, but right to him so that he can catch it. How would a Dirk/Gasol pick and roll look? Or a devin/gasol pick and roll look? Fine...a hell of a lot better than our "low-post" guy brandon bass, who is actually so under-sized and gets blocked at the rim so much that's he's become a 8foot jump-shooter for most of his offense? Not ragging on bass for it but he's too small to play a decent center, and he gets what seems like at least 10mpg doing just that.

jthig32
02-02-2008, 10:19 AM
I've never believed (and still do not) that players don't play good defense because they lack a skill set. I just don't. In my opinion it's mostly a mind-set. Others don't, okay.

If you are talking about trying to stay in front of someone then yes I'll agree. It would be very difficult for bowen say to stay in front of devin. If you are talking mind-set then maybe I'll give it to you, but there's nothing in Gasols physical attributes to say to me that he cannot play center. He won't be the same as damp/diop for sure, but he'll be a heck of a lot better than Bass would be.

I fail to see how (and continue to) replacing Damp with Gasol is going to be a net negative.

Let's see we are comparing Damp/Diop to Gasol's offense and you throw out there that
he's not a duncan???????? If Gasol is not a duncan then what is Damp/Diop? Not a spud webb?

The only low-post offense we are getting now is a dampier dunk and thats off a pass not at the rim, but right to him so that he can catch it. How would a Dirk/Gasol pick and roll look? Or a devin/gasol pick and roll look? Fine...a hell of a lot better than our "low-post" guy brandon bass, who is actually so under-sized and gets blocked at the rim so much that's he's become a 8foot jump-shooter for most of his offense? Not ragging on bass for it but he's too small to play a decent center, and he gets what seems like at least 10mpg doing just that.

It would look better offensively, no question. Would it look light years better? Well I dunno. We have a pretty damn good offensive team right now.

In fact, this team's biggest weakness this season has been defense. Even after righting the ship, we're still not playing the kind of defense we played last season. So to want to replace Damp with Gasol for more offense doesn't make sense to me.

And I completely disagree on your assessment of defense as a mindset. Defense is a mindset for people that already have the athletic ability to do it. Gasol does not have the skillset to guard low post defender, and he certainly doesn't have the skillset to be an effective off the ball shotblocker, imo.

Offense is not the problem here. What problems we have are mainly in the defense. Heck, Dirk has provided a lof the post offense we were missing last season. He's vastly improved there.

I do very much believe that taking all of Damp's minutes and giving them to Gasol would be a net negative on THIS team. I absolutely do.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 10:26 AM
I'll have to respectively disagree and call it a day. Gasol has the same number of bpg as damp does (albeit in more minutes). He's called upon in memphis to be a scorer, he would nearly be as called upon that here so I would expect those numbers to go up.

So 22 mpg of gasol on this team would be worse than the 22mpg we now give damp. I just don't see it.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 10:50 AM
Thought I would copy these numbers. I've heard folks say that Gasol is like dirk, just not as good.

Gasol took 54% of his shots in the paint and he makes 58% of them.
Bass took 46% of his shots in the paint and he makes 45% of them.
Dirk took 23% of his shots in the paint and he makes 55% of them.


Not per where he makes his shots he isn't.

Underdog
02-02-2008, 11:08 AM
I say this a lot, but SOMEBODY has to score for every team - NBA games don't have final scores of 148-56... A good player on a bad team is going to have more inflated numbers than a great player on a good team...

Gasol was the #1 (and sometimes only) scoring option for Memphis since he joined the team - how many shots is he going to be taking when the offense runs through Kobe instead of him?

Not to take anything away from Gasol - I'd love to have him in Dallas next to Damp/Diop instead of Bass or Juwan, but he's not a necessity and I wouldn't give up the defense we get from our centers to acquire him...

That said - the Lakers did just get better... Does this move help them beat San Antonio or Dallas? I'm not sure... What I AM sure of is that Gasol greatly increases their chances of beating the one team that has eliminated them from the playoffs most often in recent years - Phoenix... You don't need defense when you're in a shooting match, and the Lakers seem to get in a shooting match with the Suns every time the playoffs roll around...

wmbwinn
02-02-2008, 11:15 AM
Agree that Gasol is perfect for the Lakers and I think the Lakers will beat the Suns now.
Agree that Gasol is better than Bass. But, Gasol is way to expensive to come to Dallas and only become the Bass replacement.
Agree that Gasol would add much needed low post scoring.
Also agree with most posters that Gasol would be a substantial negative on the Mavs's defense.
Now, it may be that Gasol playing 22 minutes a game in place of Bass would allow Gasol to fight under the basket without overt concern for foul trouble.

But, again, you can't pay Gasol his current salary and make him a role player to replace Bass and rotate with our centers for 22 minutes per game. And, you can't pay Gasol his salary just to keep him for Golden State, the Suns, and the Lakers.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Gasol is in Laker land and he will be a great/incredible addition there.

FINtastic
02-02-2008, 11:39 AM
Guys we shouldn't be upset about opportunities we missed. Besides Gasol was a crappy Dirk, and why go after the crappy version when you've already got the real thing? Instead we should be looking ahead at all the exciting possibilities that might lay ahead of us.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ar5JA_V02wDjN50fkgqggiw5nYcB?slug=aw-gasollakers020108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

And what does it say of the Grizzlies? Well, it says that they’re bleeding financial losses, desperate to strip payroll and make themselves more attractive for a potential buyer. They’re shopping guard Mike Miller throughout the league too, sources say, and it’s just a matter of time until they’ve stripped themselves to the core. Essentially, they’re the Vancouver Grizzlies again.

Thespiralgoeson
02-02-2008, 11:43 AM
I say this a lot, but SOMEBODY has to score for every team - NBA games don't have final scores of 148-56... A good player on a bad team is going to have more inflated numbers than a great player on a good team...

Gasol was the #1 (and sometimes only) scoring option for Memphis since he joined the team - how many shots is he going to be taking when the offense runs through Kobe instead of him?

Not to take anything away from Gasol - I'd love to have him in Dallas next to Damp/Diop instead of Bass or Juwan, but he's not a necessity and I wouldn't give up the defense we get from our centers to acquire him...

That said - the Lakers did just get better... Does this move help them beat San Antonio or Dallas? I'm not sure... What I AM sure of is that Gasol greatly increases their chances of beating the one team that has eliminated them from the playoffs most often in recent years - Phoenix... You don't need defense when you're in a shooting match, and the Lakers seem to get in a shooting match with the Suns every time the playoffs roll around...

I agree. Anyone who's thinking Dallas should've made a move for Gasol is flat out wrong.

What this team really needs is a shooting guard. Mike Miller all the way!!

rabbitproof
02-02-2008, 12:33 PM
The fans who should be pissed about this trade are Chicago fans. They should be livid.

skylive321
02-02-2008, 12:50 PM
The fans who should be pissed about this trade are Chicago fans. They should be livid.
Correction, all western conference teams who plan to make a run for the playoffs should be pissed abput this trade. What kind of idiot, trades an all star calliber player, and his best player on the team to a contending team that has the best player in the NBA(aka Kobe) for scraps and bits nicely packaged as "Kwame Brown". I'll tell you what kind of GM. An idiot that knows he's 19 games below the mark of the playoffs and knows he has no chance at making the playoffs for at least two or three years. No, every western fan has the right to be p.o'd about this.

Underdog
02-02-2008, 12:57 PM
Correction, all _________ conference teams who plan to make a run for the playoffs should be pissed abput this trade. What kind of idiot, trades an all star calliber player, and his best player on the team to a contending team that has [one of] the best player[s] in the NBA (aka _________) for scraps and bits nicely packaged as "_________". I'll tell you what kind of GM. An idiot


A few tweaks & and it sounds like Kevin McHale's trade to Boston...

skylive321
02-02-2008, 01:08 PM
A few tweaks & and it sounds like Kevin McHale's trade to Boston...
touche...

V2M
02-02-2008, 02:14 PM
Diop/Ager/KVH/Picks/$3M Cash for Miller/Darko

Memphis is desperate to strip payroll. This deal gives 'em a chance to get rid of two multi-year contracts and earn some cash while at it.

Dallas gets a SG (16.7ppg, 50.8% FG, 43.4% 3FG) and a 7' backup center who can rebound and play a bit offense!

Our 10-man rotation:

Harris/Terry
Miller/Stack
Josh/George
Dirk/Bass
Damp/Darko

Tokey41
02-02-2008, 02:28 PM
I think that would make all the people worried about defense happier. Darko is a pretty decent defender when he wants to be and that offense would still be vastly improved (and with no one else in the paint area on the Mavs those numbers may increase). The best part is he's still like what? 22? 23?

Granted Miller would be the jackpot in that deal, it would actually address our two main problems with one deal. Get it done!

FINtastic
02-02-2008, 02:31 PM
A few tweaks & and it sounds like Kevin McHale's trade to Boston...

I know McHale gets ripped a lot, but I don't think McHale made nearly as bad of a trade as what happened here. The T-Wolves got a pretty solid player in Al Jefferson, who might be a 20-11 type for the next decade. The Grizzlies got...Kwame Brown? At least the T-Wolves got a guy that should see the All-Star game a couple of times in the next few years.

horse900703
02-02-2008, 02:35 PM
cant wait to see them play~~

Dtownsfinest
02-02-2008, 02:51 PM
I might get ripped for this but I think the Celtics are going to regret getting rid of Al Jefferson. Celtics saw an opportunity to contend for a title now so I give them credit for that but Jefferson is no slouch. His offensive game is already better than KG's at this point in their careers. Not sure if Minnesota will be a player in free agency because I don't see anyone wanting to go there but they'll definately have the money to go after some guys.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Oh I don't think the celtics are regretting much of anything right now. If they don't win a championship in the next two years they might, but they sure were not going to win one anytime soon with just jeffereson I don't think.

I wonder if Garnett could play center? Probably not, I guess we'd rather have damp than kg.

StackAttack
02-02-2008, 06:10 PM
Look on the bright side. The Lakers just used up their ammo for a Kidd trade!

I don't know about salaries, but a package featuring Fish, Turiaf, and Odom for Kidd is at least plausible if the Nets get desperate before the deadline.

jthig32
02-02-2008, 06:38 PM
Oh I don't think the celtics are regretting much of anything right now. If they don't win a championship in the next two years they might, but they sure were not going to win one anytime soon with just jeffereson I don't think.

I wonder if Garnett could play center? Probably not, I guess we'd rather have damp than kg.

Garnett could most certainly play center.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 07:42 PM
I don't see why he could and gasol couldn't? I know that KG is more atheletic but Pau outweighs him by 40 pounds. KG would get pushed all over the place.

I just didn't realize how athletic you had to be to play center.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 07:44 PM
I don't know about salaries, but a package featuring Fish, Turiaf, and Odom for Kidd is at least plausible if the Nets get desperate before the deadline.

I would imagine that fish might retire if that happened. It would be pretty cold-blooded of the lakers for sure.

chumdawg
02-02-2008, 08:05 PM
I would imagine that fish might retire if that happened. It would be pretty cold-blooded of the lakers for sure.I hear ya...but when you really think about it, is it certainly the case? He didn't do the Lakers a favor to sign with them. The Jazz did Fisher a favor to let him out of his contract. Do the Lakers really owe him anything? If anything, it almost seems like the other way round.

Underdog
02-02-2008, 09:20 PM
I hear ya...but when you really think about it, is it certainly the case? He didn't do the Lakers a favor to sign with them. The Jazz did Fisher a favor to let him out of his contract. Do the Lakers really owe him anything? If anything, it almost seems like the other way round.

The NBA: where f*ck your dying kid happens(?)

minkbarn
02-02-2008, 09:21 PM
Garnett could most certainly play center.

Garnett can play center... for limited minutes. But he isn't a center and has said he doesn't want to play center regularly. The Celtics spot him there for limited periods each game. He's too slight to go against much bulkier players for long minutes down low though.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 10:50 PM
I hear ya...but when you really think about it, is it certainly the case? He didn't do the Lakers a favor to sign with them. The Jazz did Fisher a favor to let him out of his contract. Do the Lakers really owe him anything? If anything, it almost seems like the other way round.

No they don't, but they do. :)

dude1394
02-02-2008, 10:51 PM
Garnett can play center... for limited minutes. But he isn't a center and has said he doesn't want to play center regularly. The Celtics spot him there for limited periods each game. He's too slight to go against much bulkier players for long minutes down low though.

So it's agreed, dampier is more important to the mavs than garnett would be, right?

jthig32
02-02-2008, 10:58 PM
Garnett can play center... for limited minutes. But he isn't a center and has said he doesn't want to play center regularly. The Celtics spot him there for limited periods each game. He's too slight to go against much bulkier players for long minutes down low though.

He could play center for us for much longer stretches because the offense would not be run through him, like it is in Boston.

chumdawg
02-02-2008, 11:27 PM
The NBA: where f*ck your dying kid happens(?)It's a shame what Fisher's girl is going through. He still plays road games, though, doesn't he?

That whole deal always seemed odd to me. It was nice for Fisher that he could get a job in LA near the doctor, but I don't think anyone imagines that the Lakers gave him that job out of charity.

dude1394
02-02-2008, 11:31 PM
I actually agree with you chum. I think utah was "nice" but silly to just let him go. He wants to go fine, quit. But they keep his rights and force the lakers to give up something for him.

LonghornDub
02-02-2008, 11:35 PM
It's a shame what Fisher's girl is going through. He still plays road games, though, doesn't he?

That whole deal always seemed odd to me. It was nice for Fisher that he could get a job in LA near the doctor, but I don't think anyone imagines that the Lakers gave him that job out of charity.

Agreed. It was fishy (no pun intended) and Utah fans feel the same way.

Tokey41
02-03-2008, 01:22 AM
His daughter was sick so his team let him go so he could sign to a city that could help with her treatment? Yeah... huge conspiracy going on there.

dude1394
02-03-2008, 10:41 AM
Duncan took 60% of his shots in the paint and he makes 61% of them.
Boozer took 52% of his shots in the paint and he makes 62% of them.
Gasol took 54% of his shots in the paint and he makes 58% of them.
Bass took 46% of his shots in the paint and he makes 45% of them.
Dirk took 23% of his shots in the paint and he makes 55% of them.


So let me make sure I understand. Gasol takes more of his shots in the paint than boozer and he's not a low-post player? Well I think that the folks accusing me of not understanding the game may be correct.

If Gasol isn't a low-post scorer I don't know what one is.

V2M
02-03-2008, 11:39 AM
Funny... and sad!


*****************************************

Gasol for what?

The Grizzlies trade their best player to the Lakers for questionable talent and draft picks of little potential.

By Geoff Calkins (Contact)
Saturday, February 2, 2008

Later this year, Dick Hackett -- or whatever poor sap accepts the job as the Grizzlies next president of business operations -- will have to approach FedExForum suite holders and ask them to renew their leases. It's hard to imagine how that will go.

Poor Sap: "Renewing your lease will allow you to continue to watch the exciting Grizzlies."

Lease Holder: "Really. Why would I want to do that?"

Poor Sap: "We have lots of cap room."

Lease Holder: "I'm paying tens of thousands to watch cap room?"

Poor Sap: "We might spend it this summer."

Lease Holder: "Might?"

Poor Sap: "Well, we could roll it over until next summer."

Lease Holder: "OK, so who am I watching in the meantime?"

Poor Sap: "Uh, Gasol."

Lease Holder: "Pau is a talented player."

Poor Sap: "It's actually Marc."

Yes, Marc Gasol is part of the flotsam the Grizzlies got back in exchange for his brother, Pau, the man whom Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace and coach Marc Iavaroni once vowed to build around.

You remember those days, right? They were, oh, eight months ago.

"He's obviously a superstar," said Iavaroni.

"Our intent is to move forward with Pau," said Wallace. "Marc and I believe in augmenting rather than tearing apart."

Until Friday, at least, when the Grizzlies sent Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers in a deal that was so lopsided in the Lakers' favor, the natural assumption was that Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley had decided to go cheap.

He's strip-mined the business side of the franchise, after all. Why not gut the basketball side, too?

As it turned out, that's apparently not what happened here. Insiders insist that the basketball people -- while aware of the financial considerations -- advocated for the deal.

"When I came here, my first option was to give this thing a chance and see what everybody could do," Wallace said.

And then what? You learned what any fan in the upper deck could have told you at the end of last year? That Gasol can't be the best player on a good team? That he's as soft as a throwed roll?

Wallace and Iavaroni are supposed to be savvy basketball professionals. Gasol has been in the league for seven years. So they needed all these months to decide that he's not a legitimate All-Star? While his stock continued to plunge? And then, having waited until Gasol's value has been obliterated, they're suddenly in a hurry to trade him away?

Wallace has been stunningly gracious since he's arrived in Memphis. People want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it's hard not to look at what's been happening with the team and wonder if there's a coherent plan.

Why would the Grizzlies sign a lumbering Darko Milicic if they really wanted to run? Why would they even now be planning to trade Stromile Swift to the Nets for another lumberer, Jason Collins? Why would they buy out Damon Stoudamire instead of holding on to him at least until the trade deadline?

OK, that last one's not fair. Wallace was cut out of the deal. Heisley was so eager to remain on good terms with Stoudamire -- who invited him to his wedding, after all -- that he put Stoudamire's interests ahead of the team's.

But Heisley really wasn't trying to take care of Gasol by sending him to play with Kobe Bryant in Los Angeles, even if it might look like that.

"You need to do things to change the face of the franchise from time to time," Wallace said. "We got back a tremendous amount of assets we can use over the next few years."

Right. Assets. Let's take a look at what they got:

The Lakers' first-round picks in 2008 and 2010. Which will be so low in the first round as to be essentially worthless. The Phoenix Suns routinely sell their low first-round picks for cash. Other good teams spend them on players who will stay in Europe a few years and not clutter up their roster.

Point guard Javaris Crittenton. He's the Lakers' first-round pick from last year. The Grizzlies now have three young point guards heading into one of the deepest point-guard drafts in history.

And if the Lakers thought Crittenton was going to be a star, do you think they would have dealt him away? They wouldn't give up Andrew Bynum for anything.

Marc Gasol. Oh, brother. He's a former second-round pick who will almost certainly be dealt.

Kwame Brown and Aaron McKie. Brown is a bust and McKie is retired. They're included only for purposes of cap room. When their contracts expire after the season, the Grizzlies will have an extra $12 million under the cap. Which they can spend on ...

What?

That's the key to the deal. If the Grizzlies go out this summer and pick up Gilbert Arenas, you should tear this column into little pieces.

But do they really want to spend the cash? And even if they did, would a significant, brand-name player want to come and play for this misbegotten franchise?

The Grizzlies have had cap money before; that's how they got Brian Cardinal and Milicic.

Poor Sap: "The Gasol trade is going to make us better in the future."

Lease Holder: "Really? Get back to me then."


To reach Geoff Calkins, call him at 529-2364 or e-mail calkins@commercialappeal.com

rabbitproof
02-03-2008, 11:42 AM
I think the NBA is fishy and these two blockbuster trades are fishier than ever but what Tokey says is truth. What kind of organization would they be if they did not let Fisher go? Who knows what went into the decision making process from Fish's end? Maybe they had already been frequenting a LA doctor.

me770706
02-03-2008, 01:43 PM
memphis is turning into point guard hell just like houston

cjbcool
02-03-2008, 03:32 PM
The Memphis Grizzlies just gave LA the biggest I O U in recent memories.

jthig32
02-03-2008, 03:37 PM
Duncan took 60% of his shots in the paint and he makes 61% of them.
Boozer took 52% of his shots in the paint and he makes 62% of them.
Gasol took 54% of his shots in the paint and he makes 58% of them.
Bass took 46% of his shots in the paint and he makes 45% of them.
Dirk took 23% of his shots in the paint and he makes 55% of them.


So let me make sure I understand. Gasol takes more of his shots in the paint than boozer and he's not a low-post player? Well I think that the folks accusing me of not understanding the game may be correct.

If Gasol isn't a low-post scorer I don't know what one is.

I believe I stated that he's a pretty good low post player. I also stated that he's not strictly a back to the basket player. He shoots a lot of face up set shots, only he shoots them from much closer in.

Besides, my entire point was based on the fact that offense is not what we need. Dirk is a more efficient offensive player without being in the pain as much. Our biggest problem this season has been defense, and having Pau take Damp's minutes would have had a huge negative effect on our overall defense.

cjbcool
02-03-2008, 04:03 PM
The three main positions that it effects are the 3, 4, and 5.
The projected starting 5 is Fisher, Kobe, Odom, Gasol and Bynum when he returns. They have a size advantage against most teams in the league now. Odom is 6'10. He will be physical against most threes, but is not quick enough to get the job done on Defense. While he still loves the perimeter and the mid range game he has lost a step. Gasol is a good post player, but like always Dirk wins this match up. If Bynum picks up where he left off, he will cause problems for us. He isn't fundementally sound yet, but is an athlete. We tend to struggle with athletic big men. Two two headed moster will be weakend in this match up. I think if Diop can stay out of foul trouble he will get the most time against him. Kobe will be Kobe, and Fisher can always kill you on the edge if we don't execute on Defense. Who would you put on Odom? You either make him work every play by putting Brandon Bass on him, or expose him on Defense. We have options. Josh howard, Devean George or even Juwan Howard
This should be a good game. The one thing about the Mavs is that we have versatility. The rest of te League is not that lucky.

Side Note: As far as players go, I doubt that Chemistry will play a BIG role in the success of this deal. The Lakers are upgrading their team with out loosing anything. Phil Jackson will probably use Odom like Pippen in the 90's so Coaching wise, the Chemistry will not be a big deal either. While Odom is no Pippen, he should get the job done. I thought it was remarkable that the Celtics did not have trouble bringing in Garnett and Allen. I could be wrong here also.

Flacolaco
02-03-2008, 04:24 PM
Why didn't Pao play with them today?

In the NHL, you get traded and you're on a plane and in the lineup that night.

chumdawg
02-03-2008, 04:44 PM
I'm pretty sure I saw him in uniform on the highlights. I could be wrong, though.

Windmill360
02-03-2008, 04:44 PM
yea he was in uniform (sweats) but he didnt play.

spreedom
02-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I think the word is, is that Gasol has a pretty sore back.

WayOutWest
02-03-2008, 05:26 PM
Sore back, too much traveling and too little experience with the triangle is the Laker-speek. Can't wait to see this guy get into the flow with the Lakers.

dude1394
02-05-2008, 08:21 AM
I continue to be very sad we did not get Gasol.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/dunk-o-meter/yearly?&print_rows=9999

Per the dunk-o-meter he's 25th in the league. I fail to see how a guy who plays so close to the basket would not be extremely valuable. Yuck....Kubchak showed everyone how it's done, you work those good-old-boy contacts baby.

dude1394
02-05-2008, 08:29 AM
Grrrrrrrrr....So Memphis is basically shopping all over town, obviously this was no secret.

Cubes if you weren't willing to pull this guy in for dollars you and Donnie are idiots.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=127347&src=150

Grizzlies owner: Trade talks with Bulls unsatisfactory
By Mike McGraw | Daily Herald Staff
Published: 2/3/2008 11:56 PM

Memphis Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said he believes the Bulls should be willing to pay the NBA's luxury tax and said he traded Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers on Friday in part because he was worried the Lakers were ready to make a deal to acquire Ben Wallace.

Heisley, a St. Charles resident, spoke to the Memphis Commercial-Appeal about the Grizzlies' decision to trade the 7-foot Gasol to the Lakers essentially for draft picks and salary-cap room.

The Bulls had been chasing Gasol for more than a year and were disappointed not to land the 27-year-old power forward.

"We had conversations with Chicago which were non-satisfactory," Heisley said in the Commercial-Appeal. "They didn't want to take on the luxury-tax situation and Los Angeles was. In this league, if you're in a big-market area you can afford to do those things.

"We negotiated as hard as we could for quality players and (the Bulls) refused to give up anybody in their core group. What they offered us were guys who play on the second and third team, so we turned them down."

The Bulls thought they had a deal a few weeks ago to obtain Gasol in exchange for Andres Nocioni and other pieces, but the Grizzlies insisted the Bulls take another bad contract, most likely Brian Cardinal, in return.

In order to make that deal, or acquire Gasol for expiring contracts, the Bulls' payroll would have risen beyond the luxury-tax threshold next season.

"There is no mystery to it," Heisley said. "I'm not dumb enough to think we got quality for quality for Pau. What we did was try to open up flexibility. We had to reconstruct and start building a team like Portland did and like what Minnesota is trying to do."

To get Gasol, the Lakers gave up Kwame Brown's expiring contract, rookie guard Javaris Crittenton, all-but-retired guard Aaron McKie, the rights to Gasol's brother Marc, two first-round draft picks and cash.

"What we started to see was that we weren't going to get an elite player coming back," said Memphis general manager Chris Wallace. "Rather than take a 'name' player that wasn't going to get us where we wanted to go, we preferred to get picks and salary-cap room."

Heisley also felt the Grizzlies needed to act fast before the Lakers decided to acquire Wallace from the Bulls for Brown and Vladimir Radmanovic.

"Otherwise we'd be like Chicago is today and gotten nothing done," Heisley said. "We were worried that the Lakers might do the deal with Chicago."

A Bulls source doubted the Lakers had serious interest in acquiring Wallace and wondered if there might be hard feelings between Heisley and Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

Heisley is a longtime Chicago-area resident who has said he became interested in owning an NBA team while watching the championship-era Bulls.

"When Chicago broke up the Bulls, I was fuming for three days," he said. "And the Bulls still aren't back."

Injury report: Ben Wallace (sore knee) and Tyrus Thomas (sprained foot) skipped Sunday's light practice at Seattle's Key Arena, but both are expected to play tonight against the Sonics.

Bulls coach Jim Boylan continued to maintain that Andres Nocioni is not injured and the reason Boylan sent Viktor Khryapa to replace Nocioni less than two minutes into the third quarter of Saturday's 105-101 loss at Sacramento was because Khryapa was playing well.

That last part is debatable, since Khryapa had no points, 4 fouls and 3 turnovers in 21 minutes against the Kings.

dalmations202
02-05-2008, 09:00 AM
Did I just read that Heisley is satisfied without getting a kiss?

That is how it read to me.

Tokey41
02-05-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm sure he's fine without one... considering he just got !@#$ed. Ford has an article up a few other better possibilities the Grizz could have explored (we aren't even on the list).

WayOutWest
02-05-2008, 07:00 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Gasol-080205&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_ch ad%26page%3dGasol-080205

Ten teams that had the goods to get Gasol
By Chad Ford
ESPN.com
Updated: February 5, 2008

"Merry Christmas, L.A."

That sentiment, voiced by Dallas Mavericks coach Avery Johnson upon hearing about the Pau Gasol trade, has been resonating around the NBA.

While just about everyone expected the Memphis Grizzlies to trade Gasol before the Feb. 21 trade deadline, no one predicted it would be this soon or for so little in return. Instead of established players, the Los Angeles Lakers gave the Grizzlies only a package of expiring contracts, draft picks and marginal prospects for Gasol.

While most GMs weren't publicly venting their frustration on having missed out on Gasol, plenty were willing to do so privately.

The excuses ranged from blaming Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace to blaming their owners to ? well ? pointing the finger in just about every direction but their own.

One GM I spoke to asserted he had a better deal to offer, claiming that Wallace didn't return his calls.

Another said that just two weeks ago, Wallace was asking for twice as much in return. If this GM had known the Grizzlies were lowering the asking price on Gasol, he would've made another offer, he said.

A Western Conference GM said the Grizzlies' timing threw him off: "Big trades like this normally don't happen until after the All-Star break. Who would've guessed that the Grizzlies would've jumped the gun and taken such a lopsided deal three weeks before the trade deadline?"

Another prominent GM said his owner vetoed any trade that would've pushed his team into luxury-tax territory.

Sour grapes, anyone?

From the sob stories, two themes emerged:

One, a lot of GMs are more than a little jealous that the Lakers, of all teams, landed Gasol -- especially given the price tag.

Second, it sounds like the Grizzlies didn't walk away with the best deal available.

Given that, we have to ask: Which other teams could have landed Gasol, and what could they have offered?

As a starting point, let's look at the basic parameters of the deal the Grizzlies accepted:

? About $11 million in expiring contracts (Kwame Brown and Aaron McKie)
? A prospect drafted in the middle of the first round in 2007 (Javaris Crittenton)
? A second-round pick from the same draft (Marc Gasol)
? Two first-round picks, likely to be in the No. 20 to 30 range (2008 and 2010)

Which teams could have matched or exceeded that deal? As it turns out, plenty of teams could have.

Here's a look at 10 teams that missed the boat on Gasol (in alphabetical order):



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Atlanta Hawks



Potential offer:
? Josh Childress (3.6 million expiring contract)
? Tyronn Lue ($3.5 million expiring contract)
? Lorenzen Wright ($3.25 million expiring contract)
? Anthony Johnson ($2.8 million expiring contract)
? First-round draft pick (2010)
? Note: Shelden Williams or perhaps Marvin Williams could have been included in place of Childress

Why the deal would have worked for Atlanta: Childress is an important sixth man for the team, but the Hawks are stacked with swingmen and probably don't want to pay Childress a lot as a restricted free agent this summer. The rest of the contracts are dead weight.

Gasol would have given the Hawks a much-needed veteran plus flexibility to trade more assets down the road.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would have received roughly the same amount of cap space. Childress, who has a 17.8 PER (player efficiency rating) this season, is a better player than Crittenton is likely to become, and the Hawks' draft pick (potentially a lottery pick) likely would be worth more than the two picks the Grizzlies received from the Lakers.

The downside is that Childress is a restricted free agent this summer, and the Grizzlies might have had to shell out more than the midlevel exception to keep him.



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Chicago Bulls


Potential offer:
? P.J. Brown ($8 million, prorated, expiring sign-and-trade contract)
? Viktor Khryapa ($1.9 million expiring contract)
? Tyrus Thomas ($3.5 million)
? First-round draft pick -- lottery-protected (2008)

Why the deal would have worked for Chicago: While giving up Thomas and a draft pick might have hurt the Bulls' effort to rebuild with youth, they would have been giving up little in terms of actual on-court contribution while adding what they desperately need -- a low-post scoring presence.

The downside for Chicago would have been that adding Gasol's salary to the books would have pushed them into the luxury tax, something Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf is telling general manager John Paxson he won't pay.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would have received roughly the same amount of cap space.

Thomas has amazing raw tools and would fit a need for the Grizzlies at the 4. He was regarded by many as the top prospect in the 2006 draft, putting him on a much higher plane than Crittenton.

Also, the pick from the Bulls likely would have been in the No. 15-19 range, assuming the Bulls would make the playoffs with Gasol aboard, making it an upgrade over the picks the Lakers sent to Memphis.



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Golden State Warriors


Potential offer:
? Mickael Pietrus ($3.4 million expiring contract)
? Matt Barnes ($3 million expiring contract)
? Austin Croshere ($770,610 expiring contract)
? Patrick O'Bryant ($2.2 million expiring contract)
? Brandan Wright ($2.3 million)
? Kelenna Azubuike ($687,000 expiring contract)
? First-round draft pick

Why the deal would have worked for Golden State: The Warriors would not have given up any of their core players while adding the perfect low-post complement to Don Nelson's run-and-gun system.

O'Bryant is clearly not a Nellie favorite, and Wright is hardly seeing any action either. Given that, getting Gasol would have been quite a coup.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would have received roughly the same amount of cap space.

Wright, a talented 20-year-old big man, was considered one of the best long-term prospects in last year's draft and could fit right into the hole left by Gasol at power forward.

Azubuike and Pietrus have talent, and O'Bryant was a top prospect in 2006. The Grizzlies would have had the option of bringing them back or letting them walk (as expiring contracts).

One note: Azubuike, Barnes and Pietrus would have had to agree to this trade.


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Los Angeles Clippers


Potential offer:
? Elton Brand ($15.3 million)
? First-round draft pick (2008)


Why the deal would have worked for the Clippers: There's a chance Brand will bolt this summer when he has a chance to opt out of his deal.

Adding Gasol would've given the Clippers a solid, younger front line while preserving their flexibility to make other deals. And as a bonus, they would have kept Gasol out of the hands of the Lakers.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: Brand is a useful commodity in any scenario, and his contract could have provided the Grizzlies with several appealing options.

If he had decided to return next season, he would have upgraded the team, since he's a better player than Gasol and a better fit on the Grizzlies' front line.

If he had wanted to become a free agent, the Grizzlies could have let him walk (and cleared cap space) or worked out a sign-and-trade with him and another team.

Or he and the Grizzlies could have agreed on a long-term deal to keep him in Memphis.

Also, the Clippers' 2008 first-round pick almost certainly will be a lottery pick of more value than the two picks the Lakers gave the Grizzlies.


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Miami Heat


Potential offer:
? Jason Williams ($8.9 million expiring contract)
? Alonzo Mourning ($2.7 million expiring contract)
? Daequan Cook ($1.1 million)
? Alexander Johnson ($770,610)
? Two first-round draft picks

Why the deal would have worked for Miami: If the Heat are going to make one last push for the playoffs with Shaquille O'Neal (who has two more years on his contract after this season, at $20 million per year), they need more help for Dwyane Wade.

Getting Gasol would have given them another scorer and some depth in the frontcourt.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: This trade would have probably been a wash with the Lakers deal.

The Grizzlies would have cleared a similar amount of cap room, and Cook is on par with Crittenton as a prospect.

The two future first-round draft picks might have turned out to be more valuable than the Lakers' picks, especially in the long run. But Miami already owes a pick to Minnesota, so it would have been awhile before the Grizzlies actually received the picks, which might have been a problem.

One solution that might have made a trade with Miami work for Memphis would have been to include Brian Cardinal, whom the Grizzlies have been trying to move for years. The Heat could have sent back Smush Parker and Dorell Wright's expiring contract.




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New Jersey Nets


Potential offer:
? Jamaal Magloire ($4 million expiring contract)
? Bostjan Nachbar ($2.5 million expiring contract)
? Antoine Wright ($1.6 million expiring contract)
? Nenad Krstic ($1.9 million expiring contract)
? Darrell Armstrong ($770,610 expiring contract)
? Malik Allen ($770,610 expiring contract)
? Two first-round draft picks

Why the deal would have worked for New Jersey: The Nets might prefer to move Jason Kidd and/or Vince Carter and start rebuilding. But both players are proving difficult to move.

The other direction to go would be to add a low-post scoring presence. Gasol would have been a great fit. The Nets' payroll would have been totally wrapped up in four guys (Kidd, Carter, Gasol, Richard Jefferson), but the team would have become strong again.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The deal would have cleared about the same amount of cap room.

Krstic should be a very nice player again once he recovers from knee surgery. He will be a restricted free agent this summer, but the Grizzlies could have locked him up fairly inexpensively.

And the two first-round picks should be better than those the Lakers gave up.



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Orlando Magic


Potential offer:
? Keyon Dooling ($3.6 million expiring contract)
? Pat Garrity ($3.8 million expiring contract)
? Maurice Evans ($1.7 million expiring contract)
? J.J. Redick ($2 million)
? Draft rights to Fran Vazquez
? Two first-round draft picks

Why the deal would have worked for Orlando: The Magic are an up-and-coming team, but they lack depth on the front line. Rashard Lewis is playing out of position at the 4. Put Gasol at power forward and move Lewis back to the 3 -- with Turkoglu providing All-Star level support at both positions -- and the Magic would have had perhaps the best front line in the NBA, considering Dwight Howard's presence at center.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would have received roughly the same amount of cap space.

Redick is a former lottery pick who can really shoot -- perhaps he's not a better prospect than Crittenton, but he's probably on the same tier. Vazquez is a better international prospect than Marc Gasol.

And those two first-round picks are likely to be better than the picks Memphis got from the Lakers.



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Phoenix Suns


Potential offer:
? Shawn Marion ($16.4 million, can opt out after season)
? Atlanta's 2008 first-round draft pick

Why the deal would have worked for Phoenix: The Suns are looking for size and have been shopping Marion for two years. Meanwhile, he asked to be traded during training camp and might opt out of his contract, leaving Phoenix empty-handed.

The Suns actually would have saved some money in the short term and wouldn't have had to worry anymore about Marion's moods or negotiating position. While Gasol wouldn't have given them the toughness they need, he would have been a great fit in coach Mike D'Antoni's system.

As for the draft pick, the Suns don't seem to value those, usually selling them or trading them away.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would have cleared a great amount of cap room if Marion opted out of his contract, which would have been expected, given the choice of staying in Memphis or leaving for a long-term contract elsewhere. Also, that could have led to a sign-and-trade opportunity for Memphis to land a player it might have wanted this summer.

If Marion had decided not to opt out, his contract would still be expiring in 2009.

Atlanta's draft pick likely will be a late-lottery or mid-first-round pick, which is probably more valuable than the pair of picks the Lakers gave up.



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San Antonio Spurs


Potential offer:
? Brent Barry ($5.5 million expiring contract)
? Francisco Elson ($3 million expiring contract )
? Robert Horry ($3.6 million expiring contract)
? Ian Mahinmi ($625,000)
? Two first-round draft picks (2008 and 2010)

Why the deal would have worked for San Antonio: Adding Gasol would've injected new life into the franchise. With Gasol and Tim Duncan manning the frontline and Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili in the backcourt, the Spurs would've been back on top of the West. The downside would be the serious luxury tax ramifications of adding Gasol. But he'd probably be worth it.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: This is virtually an identical deal to what the Lakers offered Memphis. The Grizzlies would have received roughly the same amount of cap space.

Mahinmi is a prospect, albeit a very raw one, who can play the 4.

The two first-round picks, like the Lakers, would've likely been very late first-round picks.



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Toronto Raptors


Potential offer:
? Andrea Bargnani ($4.8 million)
? Carlos Delfino ($1.8 million expiring contract)
? Juan Dixon ($2.5 million expiring contract)
? Joey Graham ($1.6 million)
? Jamario Moon ($770,610)

Why the deal would have worked for Toronto: The franchise is high on Bargnani and Moon, but Gasol alongside Chris Bosh would have given the Raptors one of the best front lines in basketball. Given the strength throughout the roster, the Raptors would have been real competitors to the Celtics and the Pistons.

Why the deal would have worked for Memphis: The Grizzlies would not have cleared a lot of cap room, but they would have received some very interesting young players, especially Bargnani (the No. 1 pick in the 2006 draft) and Moon, an older rookie who is likely to be a first team All-Rookie selection this year.


Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

DirkFTW
02-05-2008, 08:15 PM
Ugh, I am definitely happy he's in LA and not Phoenix or SA.

dude1394
02-05-2008, 09:56 PM
Yea that Gasol wouldn't help us a bit. What a load.

Underdog
02-05-2008, 10:48 PM
Kobe just shot a season-low 3-13, but Gasol got 24 & 12 to help the Lakers beat the Nets 105-90...

Looks like Kobe isn't crying anymore...

jthig32
02-05-2008, 10:54 PM
Yea that Gasol wouldn't help us a bit. What a load.

Once again, offense is not the problem...if there is a problem at all.

dude1394
02-06-2008, 11:09 AM
I am NOT a happy mavs-land camper. This lakers team looks to me like it's going to kick our ass everyday but sunday.

I am getting that nasty feeling I had with the antoines', that we'll strap 'em up but really don't have much of a chance here.

Bad,bad feelings to have right now. But there they are.

Underdog
02-06-2008, 01:01 PM
I am NOT a happy mavs-land camper. This lakers team looks to me like it's going to kick our ass everyday but sunday.


The good news? Our next game against the Lakers is Sunday, March 2...

;)

Dtownsfinest
02-06-2008, 02:13 PM
Gasol was great. Sore back huh?

Usually Lurkin
02-06-2008, 11:08 PM
well, the Gasol filled lakers lost to the lowly hawks. Gasol with 12 and 7. Maybe that team has a fatal flaw or something.

Jack.Kerr
02-06-2008, 11:47 PM
well, the Gasol filled lakers lost to the lowly hawks. Gasol with 12 and 7. Maybe that team has a fatal flaw or something.

That's Raef centerin' right there. Been there, done that. Don't need it anymore.

And rookie Al Horford snagged 20 boards.

WayOutWest
02-07-2008, 12:53 AM
Gasol is not much of a rebounder despite his per game average. He has a hard time fighting for rebounds, only seems to snag uncontested ones. Odom is much better at snagging them in traffic. He is definately EuroSoft but he is still 1 trillion times better than Kwame. When Kobe/Bynum/Ariza get healthy, the Lakers are going to make a serious run.

dude1394
02-07-2008, 12:53 AM
That's Raef centerin' right there. Been there, done that. Don't need it anymore.

And rookie Al Horford snagged 20 boards.

Right our center is averaging 5.5 and 7.

Really tearing it up isn't he. But our other center can't get on the floor because we are too busy playing our 6'8' center with the 9.7efficiency rating.

Versus that Gasol guy with the 22.62 efficiency rating.

DevinHarriswillstart
02-07-2008, 07:56 AM
Right our center is averaging 5.5 and 7.

Really tearing it up isn't he. But our other center can't get on the floor because we are too busy playing our 6'8' center with the 9.7efficiency rating.

Versus that Gasol guy with the 22.62 efficiency rating.

Ownage. Gasol would be a huge upgrade over Damp or Diop. People overrate our centers on these boards. More often than not Damp has a 6 point 5 rebound game. Damp has some defensive intangiles, but please, would anyone really start Damp over Gasol at center? Not a chance.

MFFL
02-07-2008, 11:33 AM
Right our center is averaging 5.5 and 7.

Really tearing it up isn't he. But our other center can't get on the floor because we are too busy playing our 6'8' center with the 9.7efficiency rating.

Versus that Gasol guy with the 22.62 efficiency rating.

Gasol would be the backup C & PF here. He'd get the minutes that were alloted to Diop and Bass.

Gasol is better in every way to those two.

kg_veteran
02-07-2008, 11:54 AM
I am NOT a happy mavs-land camper. This lakers team looks to me like it's going to kick our ass everyday but sunday.

I am getting that nasty feeling I had with the antoines', that we'll strap 'em up but really don't have much of a chance here.

Bad,bad feelings to have right now. But there they are.

I'm not sure why you feel that way. They win the C and SG positions, but we win the PG, SF, and PF positions.

WayOutWest
02-07-2008, 08:19 PM
I'm not sure why you feel that way. They win the C and SG positions, but we win the PG, SF, and PF positions.

That is correct but the margin that the Mavs are better than the Lakers has now been significantly been reduced at the PF position. Dirk is clearly better than Gasol but the difference between the two is not major like it was before with Kwame/Odom at the PF. The Gasol/Odom matchup against Dirk/Howard is 100X closer than before the trade. Once they get healthy, Bynum/Kobe/Ariza, I would take the Lakers over the Mavs.

Jack.Kerr
02-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Right our center is averaging 5.5 and 7.

Really tearing it up isn't he. But our other center can't get on the floor because we are too busy playing our 6'8' center with the 9.7efficiency rating.

Versus that Gasol guy with the 22.62 efficiency rating.

For the infinitieth time, it's not about Gasol v. Damp, and it's not justt about individual offensive production. It's about getting a center who can complement Dirk's strengths and mitigate his weaknesses.

And I'll take Dirk/Damp over Dirk/Gasol or Dirk/Raef every day of the week. (Might even ride that combo to a Finals appearance.)

And guess what? You're gonna have to as well.

Underdog
02-07-2008, 08:52 PM
Bring back P-Pod!

dude1394
02-07-2008, 10:05 PM
I'm not sure why you feel that way. They win the C and SG positions, but we win the PG, SF, and PF positions.

I really am not that sure KG, I just don't like it. I see in Gasol/Kobe/Odom/Bynum/Fisher as just a really, really stout line-up with a coach who really, really stresses defense.

I do not like that matchup. Bynum can score, their new powerforward can score(like we only wish we had an inside guy to score), their sg is all-world, odom is very good and fisher is very good. They have some pretty good bench players as well.

I would put them at the top of my list if I were a betting man. Bynum, Gasol, Odom do lot's of heavey lifting and kobe throws the knockout. I just don't like it.

I do like the improvement in devin/josh and dirk. But I don't like that we have stopped looking for our centers at all down low and we have to play a 6'8" center to get any scoring there.

Our SG situation still looks damn anemic to me, they all have an efficiency rating of less than 10.

I'm still just so unbelievably pissed that we didn't get Gasol because I think he was perfect for this team, and for donnie/avery to not see that makes me really wonder if they have what it takes. Kupchak sure does.

Underdog
02-08-2008, 10:57 AM
I'm still just so unbelievably pissed that we didn't get Gasol because I think he was perfect for this team, and for donnie/avery to not see that makes me really wonder if they have what it takes.

To be fair, every GM was taken off guard by the Gasol move - Marion and P.J. Brown were two offers made by other teams that would have brought either a better player or more cap relief (respectively) and Memphis STILL went after Kwame Brown(???)... The Grizz made their move silently & with the intention of making the Lakers better - afterall, Jerry West never played for Dallas...

Jack.Kerr
02-08-2008, 02:53 PM
The Grizz made their move silently & with the intention of making the Lakers better - afterall, Jerry West never played for Dallas...

You do know that West isn't the GM in Memphis, right?

dude1394
02-09-2008, 06:36 AM
Well pops thinks something fishy was going down. And he's right, just like fantasy football collusion should not be allowed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/08/popovich.grizzlies/index.html
It's certainly understandable that Memphis would just be going through the motions. After all, the Grizzlies just sent their best player to LA for some spare parts.

The Pau Gasol trade was so lopsided that Spurs president/coach Gregg Popovich wants the league to take action to prevent such fleecings in the future.

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," said Popovich. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committe that oversees NBA trades. I'd like to elect myself to that committee. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

Avery Johnson's take on the trade has become famous: "Merry Christmas, LA."

In related news, the Mavs are up 21 with 3:52 to go in the third.

NEW YORK -- Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace went on the offensive against his critics on Thursday, calling the unattributed criticism of the Pau Gasol trade from other general managers "pillow talk" and daring any league executives to go on the record against the deal.

Before Friday night's game against the Knicks, Spurs president and head coach Gregg Popovich did just that.

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," said Popovich. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committe that oversees NBA trades. I'd like to elect myself to that committee. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

When told that Wallace had challenged executives to criticize the deal publicly, Popovich replied, "Well, there you go. I'm on the record."

purplefrog
02-09-2008, 11:32 AM
I was listening to the Mavs pregame on ESPN radio on my way home from work and one of the pundits said that according to his sources Donnie was in touch with Memphis about Gasol but the Grizzlies wanted Josh. Donnie and co. were shocked with the deal with the Lakers according to the guys on ESPN radio. I agree with Pop, there is something just wrong with this deal. You begin to wonder if the joking we do about a Stern conspiracy isn't more on target.

skylive321
02-09-2008, 12:45 PM
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Today's Issue 2/9/2008
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NO 'BULL'
Exclusive: Damp Discusses Deals
By Mike Fisher -- DB.com




I just finished up a little one-on-one social time with Erick Dampier. My part of the conversation was about telling him how much his mundane media interviews make him sound like a well-schooled disciple of Kevin Costner in “Bull Durham.’’ His part of the conversation was all about making it clear that a) he doesn’t know who Kevin Costner is, b) he doesn’t know what”Bull Durham’’ is, and c) when he’s not giving an official interview, but instead talking comfortably and from the heart, he shares views that are anything but mundane.

“Nobody (in the West) has done anything to make their defenses better,’’ Damp told me, reflecting on Gasol to LA, Webber to Golden State and, yes, even Shaq to Phoenix. “Some of the teams don’t even play defense. The matchups (at center) are fine with me.’’

That’s right: Erick Dampier feels just fine, thank you, about dealing with whatever big men are thrown at him in the West. … and that includes Shaquille O’Neal.

(A temporary aside: He doesn’t feel completely fine. His tender ankle kept him from participating in Friday’s 91-82 drubbing of lowly Memphis. ‘Gana Diop replaced him and carried a load while Jerry Stackhouse and his hammy made a cautious return. )


Shaq has famously derided the skills of the Dallas center. (Remember “Ericka Dampier’’?) Less famously, though, is the fact that in the last three years or so, Dampier has fared quite well against The Diesel. (Here’s some great DB.com Boards research that suggests that O’Neal’s decline begins specifically when he had to battle Dampier in the 2006 NBA Finals.) Their careers keep bumping into each other; one rumor has it that Miami and Dallas this week exchanged Damp-for-Shaq trade talk!

Erick’s words, his tone and his mood tell me Dampier believes that’s more true now than ever.

We rarely see a vociforous Dampier when the notepads, microphones and cameras are out. A few games back, he’d been named the Player of the Game by the gang at ESPN 103.3 Radio. Chuck Cooperstein peppered him with friendly questions, probing questions, you name it. And literally every answer Damp gave – maybe five or six of them – were painfully short and included the phrase “one game at a time.’’

“I don’t think I do that on purpose,’’ Damp explained when I poked fun at his in-public cliché crutch. “I guess it’s just that. … all the questions are always. … well, the questions are the same. ’’

Yeah, but. …”one game at a time’’?


So I reference “Bull Durham.’’ You know, the part where Costner’s sage minor-league veteran Crash Davis tutors rookies on how to avoid every saying anything of consequence in interviews. And then I start firing those (paraphrased) lessons at Damp.

“There’s ‘I’m just happy to be here,’’’ I say.

“And there’s ‘Good Lord willing, things will work out,’’ I say.

“And of course,’’ I add, “there’s ‘We gotta play ‘em one game at a time.’’’

After I finally shut up, 6-11, 270-pound Erick Dampier looks down at me and says. … nothing. You know that blank expression that’s always on his face when he plays? This expression was blanker.

“I have no idea what you’re talking about,’’ he said.

It takes a moment for to strike me. …

“Bull Durham’’ came out in 1988, when I was 28. Dampier was 13 in 1988.

“Bull Durham’’ is a movie about baseball. Dampier is a person who is about basketball.

Kevin Costner’s name has some cache in white pop culture. Dampier is, um, not white.

So we agreed to go back to our respective worlds, cherishing the bond we share as believers that Erick vs. Shaq is a matchup the Mavs can survive. And we agreed to revisit these topics at some other point. But we didn’t set a date. We’re just going to take it one day at a time

Dtownsfinest
02-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Was it really a fleecing by the Lakers though? I mean they got a great deal for Gasol but isn't Kwame a free agent after this year? Its not like the deal did nothing for the Grizzlies.

FINtastic
02-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Was it really a fleecing by the Lakers though? I mean they got a great deal for Gasol but isn't Kwame a free agent after this year? Its not like the deal did nothing for the Grizzlies.

The thing is, if that's the only offer on the table, I make that deal if I am the Memphis GM. It immediately clears up cap room if you are the Memphis GM so that you can start rebuilding for the future. I don't see any point keeping a highly paid star on your team if you are at the bottom of the league and not looking to compete any time soon.

The real problem is that I can't believe Memphis couldn't have gotten a better offer than Kwame Brown and Javaris Crittendon.

skylive321
02-09-2008, 01:21 PM
Was it really a fleecing by the Lakers though? I mean they got a great deal for Gasol but isn't Kwame a free agent after this year? Its not like the deal did nothing for the Grizzlies.
the bulls had a better deal to offer.. chris wallace is full of sh-t

WayOutWest
02-09-2008, 02:09 PM
The matchups (at center) are fine with me.’’

LOL, that's what every center in the league says about Dampier. Dampier has ALWAYS sucked, he had one decent year durring his contract season and dupped the Mavs into signing him to big money. Of course after getting paid Damp reverted to Erica.

Dtownsfinest
02-09-2008, 02:28 PM
The thing is, if that's the only offer on the table, I make that deal if I am the Memphis GM. It immediately clears up cap room if you are the Memphis GM so that you can start rebuilding for the future. I don't see any point keeping a highly paid star on your team if you are at the bottom of the league and not looking to compete any time soon.

The real problem is that I can't believe Memphis couldn't have gotten a better offer than Kwame Brown and Javaris Crittendon.


But they clear cap room up for next season like you stated. I guess we could argue whether or not they could've cleared cap space as well as get a young talented player in return but was that deal on the table?

he bulls had a better deal to offer.. chris wallace is full of sh-t

What deal did the Bulls offer?

skylive321
02-09-2008, 02:36 PM
But they clear cap room up for next season like you stated. I guess we could argue whether or not they could've cleared cap space as well as get a young talented player in return but was that deal on the table?



What deal did the Bulls offer?
MVN writer Michael Montgomery wrote that the Bulls offered a choice of any three of the following five players, Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Joekim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, or Thabo Sefolosha for Gasol and was disappointed that it wasn’t enough.

Dtownsfinest
02-09-2008, 03:16 PM
MVN writer Michael Montgomery wrote that the Bulls offered a choice of any three of the following five players, Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Joekim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, or Thabo Sefolosha for Gasol and was disappointed that it wasn’t enough.

It comes down to salary cap space though. If the Grizz wanted to clear cap space to my knowledge none of those guys do that. I know Gordon and Nocioni just signed new deals. Thomas and Noah are still in their rookie contracts. If i'm the GM of the Bulls I pull that move any day of the week if that's what was proposed. Get 2 or 3 possible starters for Gasol is a great deal. But is Gordon and Nocioni worth adding payroll to a team that isn't going to contend any time soon in the West?