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destroy ALL
11-15-2008, 10:03 PM
On top of Devin's 30 point game against the Hawks a few nights ago, he just got another 30 point game against the Hawks today also with 10 assists. He keeps taking it to the rim and getting fouled. He was 13-14 from the free throw line. I can't believe the Mavs gave up on such a promising talent. Not only that but this years #1 which is so far looking to be a high pick! Rod Thorn >>>>>>>>> Donnie

D.Harris | G | 37:00 | 9-15 | 2-3 | 13-14 | +6| 0| 3 | 3 | 10 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 33

Seriously, how much cap room will the Mavs actually have when Kidd is off the books???

buddha08
11-15-2008, 10:17 PM
A huge reason the Mavs suck: They can't get to the Free Throw Line! I simply can't believe we gave up Devin Harris for Kidd! The Mavs are pathetic this year in regard to getting to the charity stripe, something Devin seems more adept at this year than the whole of the present Mavs roster. The Mavs' only offense--jump shots. You can't win like that. I am so disgusted with Donnie and Cuban for dismantling what the Mavs had. They have ruined the Mavs for years to come! Kidd for Harris was a bad trade straight up, not to mention the draft picks and the cash. Idiots......Arghhhhhhh!!!!!

fluid.forty.one
11-15-2008, 10:37 PM
We're already discussing this in the 2008-2009 NBA thread.

Burn this City
11-16-2008, 04:35 AM
Kidd, then Nash, now Harris. There's like a PG curse with this organization.

Yet for some reason, we can't get rid of JJ Barea???

DevinHarriswillstart
11-16-2008, 04:46 AM
Kidd, then Nash, now Harris. There's like a PG curse with this organization.

Yet for some reason, we can't get rid of JJ Barea???

LOL major rep.

basketballgirl25
11-16-2008, 07:04 AM
Kidd, then Nash, now Harris. There's like a PG curse with this organization.

Yet for some reason, we can't get rid of JJ Barea???

you say there is a PG curse I wouldn't call it a curse I'd call your Owner and GM not to good at making a team

nowhereman
11-16-2008, 10:45 AM
how badly could the mavs team use a guy like devin harris?

"Confidence does amazing things," Harris said as he tried to explain his sudden scoring surge.

fluid.forty.one
11-16-2008, 03:09 PM
attention all Devin fans (and basketballgirl25)

step 1: go to google
step 2: search for "new jersey nets forum"
step 3: stay there

Thespiralgoeson
11-16-2008, 05:33 PM
This just makes me angry. Up until his ankle injury, I thought Devin was one of the only bright spots last year (the other being Bass.) And so what do we do? We trade him for a guy a decade older with half his speed. I remember saying last year that Devin had surpassed Josh as our second-best player. I still believe that.

What was the logic behind trading for Kidd again? "Win now." Wasn't that it? What a crock of sh*t that was.

sike
11-16-2008, 06:23 PM
D-Hare is a terrible nickname.

Thespiralgoeson
11-16-2008, 06:28 PM
D-Hare is a terrible nickname.

Is it really any worse than J-ho?

dirno2000
11-16-2008, 07:16 PM
D-Hare is a terrible nickname.

I think you're burrying the lead.

Tokey41
11-16-2008, 09:18 PM
How foolish do the people who wanted Kidd here feel now? Or are they still hiding under the long shot hope that this team might actually turn it around and win us a ring?

I was given a lot of b.s trash talk from so many people when I was bashing this trade when it happened. I take solace in my vindication. Thank you Devin.

basketballgirl25
11-16-2008, 09:53 PM
I kind of feel bad for all the Mav fans that hated the Kidd trade, it needed to be done but still

I love the trade I think Carter and Harris play well together, better then Carter and Kidd ever did

and I love what Carter said

"He believes he can make baskets. He believes he can make plays," Carter said. "He's growing into one hell of a point guard."

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2008/11/new_jersey_nets_showing_surpri.html

dirno2000
11-16-2008, 10:48 PM
attention all Devin fans (and basketballgirl25)

step 1: go to google
step 2: search for "new jersey nets forum"
step 3: stay there

http://a3.vox.com/6a00d4142efd3f3c7f00d414332aab3c7f-500pi

Seriously dude Chum's been carrying the Nash torch for four years, the Devin crowd can't carry it for a month?

FINtastic
11-16-2008, 11:20 PM
http://a3.vox.com/6a00d4142efd3f3c7f00d414332aab3c7f-500pi

Seriously dude Chum's been carrying the Nash torch for four years, the Devin crowd can't carry it for a month?

Chum at least has two MVPs backing him up (eventhough I don't really think Nash deserved those). The Devin crowd has what, three games?

dirno2000
11-16-2008, 11:33 PM
Three games plus the 251 he played for the Mavs.

But yea, he's no Steven Nash so we probably won't be talking about him four years from now. At this point the wounds are still fresh and every time he drops 30 it's like the knife is being turned a little more so it's only natural to track his progress in the short term.

fluid.forty.one
11-16-2008, 11:40 PM
Chum at least has two MVPs backing him up (eventhough I don't really think Nash deserved those). The Devin crowd has what, three games?

that's true.. but either way I was one of those asking for chum to let THAT go, back when he mentioned it all the time.

and the devin trade happened awhile ago. he's had some awwwwwwwful games since then and a few good ones. I don't think it deserves it's own thread at this point.

edit: +pretend rep for the cat pic though

mavsfan1000
11-16-2008, 11:43 PM
A huge reason the Mavs suck: They can't get to the Free Throw Line! I simply can't believe we gave up Devin Harris for Kidd! The Mavs are pathetic this year in regard to getting to the charity stripe, something Devin seems more adept at this year than the whole of the present Mavs roster. The Mavs' only offense--jump shots. You can't win like that. I am so disgusted with Donnie and Cuban for dismantling what the Mavs had. They have ruined the Mavs for years to come! Kidd for Harris was a bad trade straight up, not to mention the draft picks and the cash. Idiots......Arghhhhhhh!!!!!
I felt the same way. I knew it was going to be a bust. I can't believe they made that trade. What were they thinking? Sad days as a Mav fan. :(

chumdawg
11-16-2008, 11:56 PM
Three games plus the 251 he played for the Mavs.

But yea, he's no Steven Nash so we probably won't be talking about him four years from now. At this point the wounds are still fresh and every time he drops 30 it's like the knife is being turned a little more so it's only natural to track his progress in the short term.You follow basketball at all levels, so I know you know. You know that Harris is not really a point guard, but is an undersized off guard. You know that Deron Williams would run circles around him at the one, as long as you wanted to keep the game going.

And you also know that Steve Nash would run circles around Deron Williams. I'm pretty sure that you know who the players are, who they have been, and who they can be. It's a good little run that Harris is presently on, but your scout's eye knows the real deal.

FINtastic
11-17-2008, 12:06 AM
I'm not sure about this point on Stevie running circles around Deron. If you want to make the case about the last few years, I'm not going to argue with you. But I get the feeling once Deron gets healthy, there will be a changing of the guard in the West, so to speak.

chumdawg
11-17-2008, 12:18 AM
If Deron reaches that level, good on him. Harris never will.

dirno2000
11-17-2008, 12:19 AM
You follow basketball at all levels, so I know you know. You know that Harris is not really a point guard, but is an undersized off guard. You know that Deron Williams would run circles around him at the one, as long as you wanted to keep the game going.

And you also know that Steve Nash would run circles around Deron Williams. I'm pretty sure that you know who the players are, who they have been, and who they can be. It's a good little run that Harris is presently on, but your scout's eye knows the real deal.

No, he's not a natural pass first point guard. He didn't start running the point at Wisconsin until his junior year so he still has a ways to go. But i've said before that I don't see much evidence that you need an elite passer to win in the NBA.

There's only one Deron Williams and Devin will likely never be on his level but here's an important point to keep in mind: The (for lack of a better term) "contribution to the whole" gap between Devin and Deron was much smaller than the talent gap. Nobody else on this team is capable of doing what Devin did so he was more important than he probably should have been.

ty
11-17-2008, 12:20 AM
Thought this was a typo thread for DeMarcus.

What a joke.

chumdawg
11-17-2008, 12:53 AM
No, he's not a natural pass first point guard. He didn't start running the point at Wisconsin until his junior year so he still has a ways to go. But i've said before that I don't see much evidence that you need an elite passer to win in the NBA.

There's only one Deron Williams and Devin will likely never be on his level but here's an important point to keep in mind: The (for lack of a better term) "contribution to the whole" gap between Devin and Deron was much smaller than the talent gap. Nobody else on this team is capable of doing what Devin did so he was more important than he probably should have been.Well, somebody does have to run the point. If the Mavs get anywhere, it will be because Kidd can run the point. You watched the Cowboys with Johnson, and tonight with Romo. You've gotta have a quarterback.

If the best thing your point guard is offiering is that he can do some work as an off guard, you have no quarterback.

Harris is playing like an off guard, and you know that.

dirno2000
11-17-2008, 01:08 AM
Quarterback isn't half as important in basketball as it is in football.

I love nothing more than watching a PG that knows how to run a team but the way the NBA is set you you don't need one. You need great players. Position is secondary.

Zki41
11-17-2008, 01:45 AM
Point guards can potentially have the power to influence everyone around them and make their team better, but it's like dirno2000 said, position is secondary, you need good players. Look at Chris Paul and some of the key members of the Hornets, like James Posey, Peja, David West, etc. Those guys are effective without Chris Paul, to an extent, but with Chris Paul, the offense he creates makes that team deadly.

cinemablend
11-17-2008, 01:46 AM
Well, somebody does have to run the point. If the Mavs get anywhere, it will be because Kidd can run the point. You watched the Cowboys with Johnson, and tonight with Romo. You've gotta have a quarterback.

Doesn't seem to hurt the Spurs any. Tony Parker is no quarterback. He and Harris really have about the same skill set, except Harrs is better defensively and he's a better 3 point shooter.

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 03:01 AM
I heard Nets are considering looking into drafting another point guard in 2009 because they don't think Harris is a ture point, but the article I read also said the Nets think they can move him to a position where he is still great for the team, it's all a rumor at this point, but if the Nets are smart I know they will use Devin a smart way.

Dirkenstien
11-17-2008, 09:31 AM
Perhaps we should start a thread every time Devin has a crappy game? (which has happened quite often in New Jersey)

Perhaps creating those threads would justify us trading him? How about when he went 3 for 12 against Goldenstate? Or better yet how about when got frustrated by the utterly stifling defense of Steve Nash and went 2 for 11 with three turnovers? Not to mention Nash shooting 70+ percent while dishing out 11 assists on him and his highly overrated defense.

Meanwhile all Kidd is doing is shooting 46% from the floor, 38% on 3's, playing excellent defense and getting close to a triple double every night.

Some of you guys need to give it a break. Harris is about to be 26 and still isn't a point guard in this league. He's not smart with the ball, he plays eratically and he still doesn't have 3 point range (28% this season, 32% career) His handling and decision making isn't good enough to run the point and his size and lack of strength isn't good enough for the two guard. He's Jason Terry without a shot.

Edit: And yes, D-Hare is a terrible nickname.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 09:35 AM
Nash = not the problem
Harris = not the problem
Kidd = not the problem

All these guys are solid and could win a title if you surrounded them with the right talent - the point guard position has been one of the strongest spots on the Mavs roster for the last 8 years...

I'd check the shooting guard and center positions for scapegoats (although anyone with half a brain will tell you that the goat escaped to the Mavs front office...)

alby
11-17-2008, 01:36 PM
Perhaps we should start a thread every time Devin has a crappy game? (which has happened quite often in New Jersey)

Perhaps creating those threads would justify us trading him? How about when he went 3 for 12 against Goldenstate? Or better yet how about when got frustrated by the utterly stifling defense of Steve Nash and went 2 for 11 with three turnovers? Not to mention Nash shooting 70+ percent while dishing out 11 assists on him and his highly overrated defense.

Meanwhile all Kidd is doing is shooting 46% from the floor, 38% on 3's, playing excellent defense and getting close to a triple double every night.

Some of you guys need to give it a break. Harris is about to be 26 and still isn't a point guard in this league. He's not smart with the ball, he plays eratically and he still doesn't have 3 point range (28% this season, 32% career) His handling and decision making isn't good enough to run the point and his size and lack of strength isn't good enough for the two guard. He's Jason Terry without a shot.

Edit: And yes, D-Hare is a terrible nickname.
an intelligent post.

Janett_Reno
11-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Nash = not the problem
Harris = not the problem
Kidd = not the problem

All these guys are solid and could win a title if you surrounded them with the right talent - the point guard position has been one of the strongest spots on the Mavs roster for the last 8 years...

I'd check the shooting guard and center positions for scapegoats (although anyone with half a brain will tell you that the goat escaped to the Mavs front office...)

Your post says it all. End of story. Now trying to convince the Mavs organazation on a sg and the fact they need atleast one player on the Dallas Mavs roster that can play offense in the painted area. As we sit still, teams like Denver jump ahead of us with Billups and addresses their very weakness, with them terrible on the 3 point shot and a pg to run the team. Now Billups will help with both. Watch teams in the west tweak and address any major or minor weaknesses thru out the year as we tweak with more Stackhouses, Eddie Jones, or just sit still. It isn't going to be a pretty year this year and it is going to get worse untill the Mavs organazation understand they have no sg or no player on the team that can play half court offense paint ball and then to boot, no one to penetrate in half court. Why this is important is it creates free throw attempts. If Dirk and Howard do what they did last game and have monster years playing very, very physical it will help but they need players around them to make things come easier, not harder. I did like Singleton crashing the boards and trying to be aggressive and physical also. That helps. The jury is out on how good or how bad Singleton and Green are. They have potential but so does Bass.

ghazi
11-17-2008, 02:05 PM
Kidd has been good for us, but I can't help but wonder whether Devin's slashing ability would mitigate some of the halfcourt offensive stagnation the Mavs face at times. We were 2nd in offensive efficiency before the Kidd trade I think.

But if we're not winning a title with Kidd, I doubt we were winning a title with 25 YO Devin Harris. This team would be fine with a shooting guard, a low post scoring threat, or a better bench... Harris is neither of these.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 02:21 PM
The problem with Kidd-for-Harris is that you're trading one strength/weakness for another...

If you're going to trade Devin's slashing ability for Kidd's passing ability (good move), then you also need grab someone who can score in the paint in a second deal (either slasher or low post) - that's where Cuban and Donnie failed...

Jason Kidd isn't the problem so much as the Kidd Trade was the problem - we gave up too much and had nothing left to grab a guy who can do what Devin did, despite getting the best single player out of the deal (and your a blithering idiot if you think a 26-year-old Devin Harris is anywhere near as talented as a 36-year-old Jason Kidd...)


Maybe Gerald Green will end up bringing what Devin brought, but it's still too early to tell... In the meantime, we still have another trade to make if the front office wants to back up their "win now" mantra...

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 02:33 PM
(and your a blithering idiot if you think a 26-year-old Devin Harris is anywhere near as talented as a 36-year-old Jason Kidd...)

Devin Harris isn't as talented as Kidd, but when you look at it this way it doesn't take one person to win it takes and team to win so it really doesn't matter who is better, trust me I was pissed when the Kidd trade happened but then I thought about it and realized if we have other great players then it doesn't matter. I mean think of it this way Kidd could be the best player in the NBA, but if he doesn't have the right players with him he isn't going to be good

fluid.forty.one
11-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Kidd has been good for us, but I can't help but wonder whether Devin's slashing ability would mitigate some of the halfcourt offensive stagnation the Mavs face at times.

I'm not sure how you can suggest this. Our biggest problem ever since the 3rd game against Miami has been halfcourt offensive stagnation. Yes, Devin was able to drive (and finish sometimes) in the halfcourt, but it didn't help the overall problem.

fluid.forty.one
11-17-2008, 02:42 PM
Devin Harris isn't as talented as Kidd, but when you look at it this way it doesn't take one person to win it takes and team to win so it really doesn't matter who is better, trust me I was pissed when the Kidd trade happened but then I thought about it and realized if we have other great players then it doesn't matter. I mean think of it this way Kidd could be the best player in the NBA, but if he doesn't have the right players with him he isn't going to be good

LeBron has been pretty good while playing with trash.

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 02:50 PM
LeBron has been pretty good while playing with trash.

well Lebron is Lebron he is just one heck of a guy something Kidd was never and Harris will never be

Underdog
11-17-2008, 02:53 PM
well Lebron is Lebron he is just one heck of a guy something Kidd was never and Harris will never be

Yeah, because Kidd did NOTHING to have people call him a Hall of Famer before he's even retired...


I hate your mother for being pro-life...

fluid.forty.one
11-17-2008, 03:01 PM
well Lebron is Lebron he is just one heck of a guy something Kidd was never and Harris will never be

wow

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 03:07 PM
Yeah, because Kidd did NOTHING to have people call him a Hall of Famer before he's even retired...


I hate your mother for being pro-life...

ok Kidd DID stuff before but now I totally forgot Nets sucked till he got ther I try to block out those bad day, but he isn't as good as he once was, not saying he isn't good still just not as good

fluid.forty.one
11-17-2008, 03:16 PM
http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/images/pepelepew.gif

le sigh

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 07:27 PM
(and your a blithering idiot if you think a 26-year-old Devin Harris is anywhere near as talented as a 36-year-old Jason Kidd...)


Call me a blathering idiot then, because at this point I in their careers I would take Devin 10 times out of 10, and I don't think there are many NBA teams would do otherwise.

Kidd was one of the greatest points ever, but he just can't get into the paint anymore. When you have a point guard who can't get into the paint, you're basically playing with a bucket on your foot. It's sorta like having a shooting guard who can't shoot, another problem we've had to deal with for years.

jthig32
11-17-2008, 07:33 PM
Once again, if the Mavs continue to struggle this season, the trade as a whole looks pretty bad (if New Jersey gets a high lotter pick next season is looks horrendous).

But Jason Kidd, right now, is still a good, solid step above Devin Harris on a basketball court. You can't always tell from the box score (Kidd's game has always been somewhat underrated statistically) but when you watch the games you see the effect he has on them.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 07:35 PM
He's Jason Terry without a shot.


If you mean that he's a combo guard and not a pure point, that's one thing. But if you're comparing what they both actually contribute on the floor, then you couldn't be more wrong. Harris is constantly looking to attack the rim, and has the speed to do to it too. That alone makes him more valuable than Terry ever was.

I swear, to all of his detractors, it's like last season never happened. The guy was absolutely solid last year before his injury. He was a genuine NBA starting point guard. Was he Chris Paul or Deron Williams? No. But is Jason Kidd either? At this point in his career anyway? Hell no.

People can go on and on about "true point guards" and "quarterbacks" etc... But that doesn't change the fact that when we lost Devin, we lost an explosive if inconsistent player, and a real offensive threat.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 07:39 PM
Once again, if the Mavs continue to struggle this season, the trade as a whole looks pretty bad (if New Jersey gets a high lotter pick next season is looks horrendous).

But Jason Kidd, right now, is still a good, solid step above Devin Harris on a basketball court. You can't always tell from the box score (Kidd's game has always been somewhat underrated statistically) but when you watch the games you see the effect he has on them.

I just don't see it, man. When we're running a fast break, sure. But when we get into a half court game, it gets very very ugly. Kidd tries to set something up, but just can't get by his man. So what we usually end up with is the same thing we had under Avery; all the guys just pass the ball around the 3 point line until there's only a few seconds left and someone has to chuck up a bad shot.

To Kidd's credit, he can at least throw an entry pass, which for reasons beyond my understanding, the Dallas guards never seemed to know how to do against Miami or Golden State.

jthig32
11-17-2008, 07:50 PM
I think you overstate the problems in the half court. There's been several games where Kidd was an absolute asset in the half court, posting up and creating for others.

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 08:14 PM
The only problems Kidd has is one he isn't good at shooting and everyone see's that and two he can't guard quick guards, he couldn't even in his prime if anyone remembers the one finals

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 08:15 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0228/nba_a_harris_268.jpg

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 08:16 PM
How foolish do the people who wanted Kidd here feel now? Or are they still hiding under the long shot hope that this team might actually turn it around and win us a ring?

I was given a lot of b.s trash talk from so many people when I was bashing this trade when it happened. I take solace in my vindication. Thank you Devin.

Umm yee great for Devin...but Kidd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devin. The trade was still a good one and mann, watching Kidd out there is just soo much better then watching Harris..even when we lose.


GO MAVS

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 08:17 PM
The only problems Kidd has is one he isn't good at shooting and everyone see's that and two he can't guard quick guards, he couldn't even in his prime if anyone remembers the one finals

He's not a bad shooter when he sets his feet. The problem Kidd gives this team is that he isn't a scorer. He even misses bunnies in the paint. And with Damp out there its basically 3 on 5 out there. And I haven't been impressed with Kidd in the half court at all and that goes back to last season. He's at his best running the break. Something this team definately did need last season.

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 08:18 PM
If you mean that he's a combo guard and not a pure point, that's one thing. But if you're comparing what they both actually contribute on the floor, then you couldn't be more wrong. Harris is constantly looking to attack the rim, and has the speed to do to it too. That alone makes him more valuable than Terry ever was.

I swear, to all of his detractors, it's like last season never happened. The guy was absolutely solid last year before his injury. He was a genuine NBA starting point guard. Was he Chris Paul or Deron Williams? No. But is Jason Kidd either? At this point in his career anyway? Hell no.

People can go on and on about "true point guards" and "quarterbacks" etc... But that doesn't change the fact that when we lost Devin, we lost an explosive if inconsistent player, and a real offensive threat.

In his time here...Harris was never more valuable then Jet to this team. dreamm on

fluid.forty.one
11-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Kidd may not be good at mid range shots but he has been our most consistant 3 point shooter this season.

And I agree with thig. Kidd has played great this year, even in the half court sets. You can especially tell when things fall apart when he goes to the bench.

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 08:31 PM
Umm yee great for Devin...but Kidd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devin. The trade was still a good one and mann, watching Kidd out there is just soo much better then watching Harris..even when we lose.


GO MAVS

When Kidd's retired and a analyst for ESPN Harris won't even be 30.......

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 08:35 PM
In his time here...Harris was never more valuable then Jet to this team. dreamm on

He sure as hell was against the Spurs 2 seasons ago. We don't win that series without him.

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 08:54 PM
When Kidd's retired and a analyst for ESPN Harris won't even be 30.......

could and prob is ture

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 09:05 PM
When Kidd's retired and a analyst for ESPN Harris won't even be 30.......

and Kidd will probably still be a better pg...

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 09:07 PM
In his time here...Harris was never more valuable then Jet to this team. dreamm on

Last year, Harris was A LOT more valuable to this team than Terry. It wasn't even remotely close. I'll say it again. Devin was the second best player on the team.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 09:07 PM
and Kidd will probably still be a better pg...

+rep


(I bet Harris is washed up before 30...)






EDIT: don't get me wrong - I love Harris, but the human body can only take so many charges (and flopping) at the NBA level...

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 09:08 PM
Umm yee great for Devin...but Kidd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devin. The trade was still a good one and mann, watching Kidd out there is just soo much better then watching Harris..even when we lose.


GO MAVS

To each his own. Personally, I prefer point guards who can break a defense to guys who can't.

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 09:08 PM
He sure as hell was against the Spurs 2 seasons ago. We don't win that series without him.

Yee I have heard that before. You can argue that. BUT its very simple. When it comes to giving players credit for those 2 or three successful years we had.... Dirk is #1 and Jet is #2..the rest have their place

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 09:09 PM
To each his own. Personally, I prefer point guards who can break a defense to guys who can't.

Devin would have probably become more important this year or next year ..but to say that he was more important the last four years then JET to this teams success is crazy.

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 09:24 PM
and Kidd will probably still be a better pg...

I don't think when Harris is 30 Kidd will be better I mean Kidd will be like what 41 or so. he could be like Armstrong was last year, but I don't think much more then that. Harris will never be as great as Kidd saying will be better then is kind of pushing it.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Devin would have probably become more important this year or next year ..but to say that he was more important the last four years then JET to this teams success is crazy.

Not the last four years, of course not. But last year, definitely. Devin had a sort of break out year. I didn't get to watch any preseason games last year, and I remember being skeptical when people were telling me how much he had improved since the Golden State loss. But he definitely did improve dramatically. From 05 to 07, yeah, Terry was of course the more important player. But last year Devin really came into his own as a player, and yes, I daresay as a point guard.

Favoring the trade, or preferring Kidd to Harris is one thing. But it is absolutely ridiculous the way some posters around here are just taking a shit on the guy for no reason.

You can argue that Kidd is a better player these days, but that is it. To act like Kidd is still an MVP level guy and light years beyond a player like Devin is absurd. I know it's early in the season, but Devin is putting up 23 ppg on .450 FG%. I would KILL to have those numbers in our starting lineup.

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 09:45 PM
Not the last four years, of course not. But last year, definitely. Devin had a sort of break out year. I didn't get to watch any preseason games last year, and I remember being skeptical when people were telling me how much he had improved since the Golden State loss. But he definitely did improve dramatically. From 05 to 07, yeah, Terry was of course the more important player. But last year Devin really came into his own as a player, and yes, I daresay as a point guard.

Favoring the trade, or preferring Kidd to Harris is one thing. But it is absolutely ridiculous the way some posters around here are just taking a shit on the guy for no reason.

You can argue that Kidd is a better player these days, but that is it. To act like Kidd is still an MVP level guy and light years beyond a player like Devin is absurd. I know it's early in the season, but Devin is putting up 23 ppg on .450 FG%. I would KILL to have those numbers in our starting lineup.

I agree with you somewhat. But Harris IMO has a long way to go to get to the level that Kidd is at. Its not all about stats.

Now having his 23ppg would negate other players and you should know by now that you cant just add a player and expect everyone else to stay at the same level. What would happen to Dirk, Josh?? Harris can put up numbers like tht cuz in NJ all hes got is VC and some other young. I dont think he would average over 20 on this Dallas team

AxdemxO
11-17-2008, 09:46 PM
I don't think when Harris is 30 Kidd will be better I mean Kidd will be like what 41 or so. he could be like Armstrong was last year, but I don't think much more then that. Harris will never be as great as Kidd saying will be better then is kind of pushing it.

really ; )..

basketballgirl25
11-17-2008, 09:52 PM
Harris can put up numbers like tht cuz in NJ all hes got is VC and some other young.

he's got Yi on the team who people say could be the next Dirk and even better then Dirk, I don't see it yet, but hopefully it happens:D

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 10:03 PM
and Kidd will probably still be a better pg...

Yea it does a lot of good for the Mavs to have Kidd as an analyst while Harris is tearing it up in New Jersey......

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 10:03 PM
I agree with you somewhat. But Harris IMO has a long way to go to get to the level that Kidd is at. Its not all about stats.

No, it's not about stats. It's about ability. In this case, the ability to score, and get past the defense. Harris has it. Kidd doesn't.

Now having his 23ppg would negate other players and you should know by now that you cant just add a player and expect everyone else to stay at the same level. What would happen to Dirk, Josh?? Harris can put up numbers like tht cuz in NJ all hes got is VC and some other young. I dont think he would average over 20 on this Dallas team

I disagree completely.

You're just not giving the guy his credit. Players' numbers usually are a bit inflated when they play on bad teams, but seriously, give credit where credit is due. The guy can flat out get to the rim.
The only reason he can put up those numbers is because he's only got VC and Yi? And what would he have here? Dirk and Josh... and who else?? Honestly, it's not like we're bursting with offensive talent here.

Quite the opposite I would say. Our problem is we don't have enough scorers. Not in the front court, and certainly not in the back court. Devin had quite a few big games for us and it never detracted from Josh or Dirk's production. Besides, if his scoring average was lower if he were still here, wouldn't it also be logical to assume that his assist numbers would be up?

I'm sorry, but the idea that Devin being here would take away from Dirk and Josh doesn't fly with me. Does Parker's superior scoring ability take away from Duncan and Manu? Do you think they wish they had traded him for Kidd when they had the chance? I mean, he's not a "true" point guard either. Something tells me they're ok with that.

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 10:04 PM
+rep


(I bet Harris is washed up before 30...)






EDIT: don't get me wrong - I love Harris, but the human body can only take so many charges (and flopping) at the NBA level...

Nash takes more charges than Harris does and he's what? 35?

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 10:12 PM
Yee I have heard that before. You can argue that. BUT its very simple. When it comes to giving players credit for those 2 or three successful years we had.... Dirk is #1 and Jet is #2..the rest have their place

What successful years? IMO, beating the Spurs in the 2nd round of the playoffs was the biggest hump this team has ever overcome. Years of getting our asses kicked by them and to finally get over that had alot to do with Devin and Diop. Harris became a man in that round.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 10:14 PM
I think you overstate the problems in the half court. There's been several games where Kidd was an absolute asset in the half court, posting up and creating for others.

Some nights are better than others, sure. But we're still playing with a bucket on our foot, because we have no reliable shooters or slashers in the backcourt. If we had gotten a Maggette or a Redd in the offseason, I might feel differently about the trade. But we didn't, so as it is, we are weaker for it.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 10:16 PM
What successful years? IMO, beating the Spurs in the 2nd round of the playoffs was the biggest hump this team has ever overcome. Years of getting our asses kicked by them and to finally get over that had alot to do with Devin and Diop. Harris became a man in that round.

No kidding. When we made the trade, I specifically thought of how this would effect our matchup situation with the Spurs. Devin really shined anytime we played the Spurs.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 10:25 PM
Nash takes more charges than Harris does and he's what? 35?

Yeah, and Nash's back is all jacked up because of it (not to mention that a pass/shoot guy can deal with injuries better than a slasher...)

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 10:34 PM
Yeah, and Nash's back is all jacked up because of it (not to mention that a pass/shoot guy can deal with injuries better than a slasher...)

I think the back problems have more to do with age and minutes he gets a night than it hasto do with taking charges IMO.

No kidding. When we made the trade, I specifically thought of how this would effect our matchup situation with the Spurs. Devin really shined anytime we played the Spurs.

I agree. I can't believe how quickly we've forgotten Harris' impact he had against the Spurs 2 straight years. I know Spurs fans haven't forgotten it. That's what my main concern with the trade was. In had a guy in Harris who could go speed for speed with Paul, Deron and Tony Parker. And those are just guys in the West lol. I knew Kidd was a player. I just didn't think he was the player for this team and I sure as hell didn't think the Mavs were a Kidd away from winning a championship.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 10:43 PM
No kidding. When we made the trade, I specifically thought of how this would effect our matchup situation with the Spurs. Devin really shined anytime we played the Spurs.

Too bad the Warriors weren't the Spurs...

Dirkadirkastan
11-17-2008, 10:45 PM
Devin played fine against GS. Numerous other players didn't show up, some literally, some figuratively.

Underdog
11-17-2008, 10:48 PM
Devin played fine against GS. Numerous other players didn't show up, some literally, some figuratively.

Devin played fine against Baron Davis?

(I have yet to hear a Devin defender cite anything other than his scoring ability as being an asset to this team...)

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 10:51 PM
I agree. I can't believe how quickly we've forgotten Harris' impact he had against the Spurs 2 straight years. I know Spurs fans haven't forgotten it. That's what my main concern with the trade was. In had a guy in Harris who could go speed for speed with Paul, Deron and Tony Parker. And those are just guys in the West lol. I knew Kidd was a player. I just didn't think he was the player for this team and I sure as hell didn't think the Mavs were a Kidd away from winning a championship.

Exactly. I don't doubt that Kidd is still a very useful player. But he wasn't the guy we needed, and indeed, this team is not built to make good use of his talents. Passing gurus like Kidd need to be surrounded by shooters and slashers. We don't have enough of either. This is doubly so in Kidd's case because he doesn't have the ability to score himself. We're not even a good passing team. Things would be very different if the guys on this team could all move the rock like the Webber/Vlade era Kings could. That would make up for or at least help offset the teams obvious lack of offensive potency.

Bottom line, before we made the trade, we had a couple of serious problems. After the trade, we have the exact same problems, plus a couple more. We needed to trade for a shooting guard, or a center who could score. Jason Kidd was not the missing piece.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 10:55 PM
Too bad the Warriors weren't the Spurs...

Devin may have been overmatched in that series, but I will always always maintain that Avery lost us that series. Any competent coach could've made a couple of very simple, elementary adjustments that I believe would have won us that series.

But it's a moot point anyway because as I said before, it was after that very series that Devin started to really show progress.

Tokey41
11-17-2008, 10:59 PM
This is getting ridiculous, of course you'd rather have the talent of Jason Kidd. But on this team that's not enough for ANYTHING to be accomplished and thus you take Harris because a) Even if you hated the guy he was infinitely more enticing as a trade piece, b) we wouldn't give up draft picks for quite literally two years in which the team was either eliminated in the first round again or missed the playoffs (yeah i'm calling it if we stay constructed as we are), c) No matter how well Jason Kidd has played this season... it hasn't amounted to any wins, and d) We had an insane megolomaniac coach who blurred everything. If we had a coach who wasn't choking Harris on a leash he probably would be the same player we're seeing in NJ today.

And at the end of the day it's all moot because the trade went down and we're stuck here. For some reason I keep expecting the front office to have some sort of ace in the hole but how much faith can a fan possibly have at this point in their competence?

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 11:00 PM
Devin played fine against Baron Davis?

(I have yet to hear a Devin defender cite anything other than his scoring ability as being an asset to this team...)

What other things are there to talk about? What makes Dirk so great besides his scoring ability? I mean, really, basketball is pretty simple. There's scoring, passing, defending, and rebounding. Kidd is obviously a better passer and rebounder. Devin is obviously a better scorer. Defense is really a contestable issue. I've heard a lot of arguments for Kidd being the better defender and vice-versa. Really I think it's too close to really be an issue; Devin is a better individual defender and Kidd is a better team defender.

Dtownsfinest
11-17-2008, 11:00 PM
Exactly. I don't doubt that Kidd is still a very useful player. But he wasn't the guy we needed, and indeed, this team is not built to make good use of his talents. Passing gurus like Kidd need to be surrounded by shooters and slashers. We don't have enough of either. This is doubly so in Kidd's case because he doesn't have the ability to score himself. We're not even a good passing team. Things would be very different if the guys on this team could all move the rock like the Webber/Vlade era Kings could. That would make up for or at least help offset the teams obvious lack of offensive potency.

Bottom line, before we made the trade, we had a couple of serious problems. After the trade, we have the exact same problems, plus a couple more. We needed to trade for a shooting guard, or a center who could score. Jason Kidd was not the missing piece.

I agree. I actually think getting Kidd gave us more problems than we had before. I wonder if possible is there a shooting guard out there the Mavs could snag? Mike Redd maybe? I think he's hurt now but I wonder if the Bucks are out of the playoff hunt by the All Star break would they think about a fire sale? I guess giving up Yi and getting Jefferson sort of took them out of rebuilding mode I guess. I hope its an option though.

Thespiralgoeson
11-17-2008, 11:09 PM
This is getting ridiculous, of course you'd rather have the talent of Jason Kidd. But on this team that's not enough for ANYTHING to be accomplished and thus you take Harris because a) Even if you hated the guy he was infinitely more enticing as a trade piece, b) we wouldn't give up draft picks for quite literally two years in which the team was either eliminated in the first round again or missed the playoffs (yeah i'm calling it if we stay constructed as we are), c) No matter how well Jason Kidd has played this season... it hasn't amounted to any wins, and d) We had an insane megolomaniac coach who blurred everything. If we had a coach who wasn't choking Harris on a leash he probably would be the same player we're seeing in NJ today.

And at the end of the day it's all moot because the trade went down and we're stuck here. For some reason I keep expecting the front office to have some sort of ace in the hole but how much faith can a fan possibly have at this point in their competence?

Well said. Devin for Kidd straight up would be one thing (salaries notwithstanding.) But we really overpaid for Kidd. Diop plus draft picks? Yeah we got Diop back, but it cost us the MLE do to it.

Someone in another thread opined that if we tried to trade Dirk right now, we might not get as good a deal for him as New Jersey got for Kidd. I agree with this. It was just a bad trade. We not only traded a young guy for an old guy, but we overpaid to do it.

dirno2000
11-18-2008, 01:04 AM
Favoring the trade, or preferring Kidd to Harris is one thing. But it is absolutely ridiculous the way some posters around here are just taking a shit on the guy for no reason.

I brought this up about a month ago. A lot of people that supported Devin when he was here have attempted to tear him down in order to build Kidd up. It's not necessary. Kidd should be able to stand on his own merits. The fact that we have to trash Devin tells me that there's some doubt.

I'm floored that anyone can still call this a good trade. We got bent over by Rod Thorn...and that was before Devin started putting 30 point 10 assist games.

Kidd, for his part, has played better than I expected. You can tell he's really trying to make this thing work. Unfortunately his lack of scoring is just as big of a problem as Devin's lack of playmaking.

basketballgirl25
11-18-2008, 06:00 AM
I agree. I actually think getting Kidd gave us more problems than we had before. I wonder if possible is there a shooting guard out there the Mavs could snag? Mike Redd maybe? I think he's hurt now but I wonder if the Bucks are out of the playoff hunt by the All Star break would they think about a fire sale? I guess giving up Yi and getting Jefferson sort of took them out of rebuilding mode I guess. I hope its an option though.

I so hope Bucks aren't out of the playoff hunt by All Star break, I love Jefferson and he deserves to make it to the playoffs this year and hope he does because he was one of the best Nets:D

Underdog
11-18-2008, 08:10 AM
I brought this up about a month ago. A lot of people that supported Devin when he was here have attempted to tear him down in order to build Kidd up. It's not necessary. Kidd should be able to stand on his own merits. The fact that we have to trash Devin tells me that there's some doubt.

I'm floored that anyone can still call this a good trade. We got bent over by Rod Thorn...and that was before Devin started putting 30 point 10 assist games.

Kidd, for his part, has played better than I expected. You can tell he's really trying to make this thing work. Unfortunately his lack of scoring is just as big of a problem as Devin's lack of playmaking.

It isn't "trash talk" about Devin - it's pointing out why we couldn't win it all with him (ever) and what we gained by trading him... Sure, we lost his slashing ability, but we gained a point guard to play the point guard position...

Don't get me wrong - I would have rather packaged JET and kept Devin at the 2, but it is what it is and Dirk seems to be a lot happier with Kidd's style of play than Devin's (I have yet to see him yell at Kidd the way he yelled at Harris on a regular basis...)

The blame doesn't lie on Kidd's shoulders - it lies on Cuban & Donnie's for not making another (obvious) move to pick up a slasher after we got Kidd... We traded one problem for another and we still don't have a legitimate shooting guard or low post threat (I also blame Stack for his part in costing us our greatest trade asset - the KVH contract...)

At best, we'd be treading water with Devin... We took a gamble with Kidd and it could have paid off if the front office had the balls/brains to make another move... It's still not too late to add a missing piece to this team, but if it doesn't happen by the All-Star break, then we're probably blowing it up (and that would still be the case if Devin was on our roster...)

basketballgirl25
11-18-2008, 11:13 AM
It isn't "trash talk" about Devin - it's pointing out why we couldn't win it all with him (ever) and what we gained by trading him... Sure, we lost his slashing ability, but we gained a point guard to play the point guard position...

Don't get me wrong - I would have rather packaged JET and kept Devin at the 2, but it is what it is and Dirk seems to be a lot happier with Kidd's style of play than Devin's (I have yet to see him yell at Kidd the way he yelled at Harris on a regular basis...)

The blame doesn't lie on Kidd's shoulders - it lies on Cuban & Donnie's for not making another (obvious) move to pick up a slasher after we got Kidd... We traded one problem for another and we still don't have a legitimate shooting guard or low post threat (I also blame Stack for his part in costing us our greatest trade asset - the KVH contract...)

At best, we'd be treading water with Devin... We took a gamble with Kidd and it could have paid off if the front office had the balls/brains to make another move... It's still not too late to add a missing piece to this team, but if it doesn't happen by the All-Star break, then we're probably blowing it up (and that would still be the case if Devin was on our roster...)

I just have a coment on this, Dirk did seem happy last year after the Kidd trade, but so far this year I think he looks a little off even when he has a good game like vs knicks. Don't get me wrong or anything the only reason I don't like Dirk is because he is really great, but I think he is losing a step or two, prob because of playing this summer though. Mavs wouldn't have won with Harris, but mavs won't win with Kidd either unless they get real real lucky, at least the team took a gamble with Kidd but unless a really good player is traded to Mavs I don't see them winning.

Underdog
11-18-2008, 11:18 AM
http://www.psidea.org/images/BangHeadHere.gif

FINtastic
11-18-2008, 11:43 AM
http://www.psidea.org/images/BangHeadHere.gif

I find your stress reduction kit interesting and would like to purchase one.

Tokey41
11-18-2008, 02:05 PM
It isn't "trash talk" about Devin - it's pointing out why we couldn't win it all with him (ever) and what we gained by trading him... Sure, we lost his slashing ability, but we gained a point guard to play the point guard position...

Don't get me wrong - I would have rather packaged JET and kept Devin at the 2, but it is what it is and Dirk seems to be a lot happier with Kidd's style of play than Devin's (I have yet to see him yell at Kidd the way he yelled at Harris on a regular basis...)

The blame doesn't lie on Kidd's shoulders - it lies on Cuban & Donnie's for not making another (obvious) move to pick up a slasher after we got Kidd... We traded one problem for another and we still don't have a legitimate shooting guard or low post threat (I also blame Stack for his part in costing us our greatest trade asset - the KVH contract...)

At best, we'd be treading water with Devin... We took a gamble with Kidd and it could have paid off if the front office had the balls/brains to make another move... It's still not too late to add a missing piece to this team, but if it doesn't happen by the All-Star break, then we're probably blowing it up (and that would still be the case if Devin was on our roster...)

The point that we can't win with Devin is beyond moot when the same goes for Kidd. There's no way we are winning it with him. And Cuban and Donnie are to blame for the trade because we gave up too much for Kidd so we couldn't get a slasher and again that's why the trade was a bad move. NJ should have been having a fire sale and instead they come out ahead (or at least even to those who are STILL in favor of the trade).

jthig32
11-18-2008, 02:16 PM
I find your stress reduction kit interesting and would like to purchase one.

Ironically, I actually have a poster that looks essentially just like that sitting on my desk as we speak.

Weird.

basketballgirl25
11-18-2008, 02:16 PM
The point that we can't win with Devin is beyond moot when the same goes for Kidd. There's no way we are winning it with him. And Cuban and Donnie are to blame for the trade because we gave up too much for Kidd so we couldn't get a slasher and again that's why the trade was a bad move. NJ should have been having a fire sale and instead they come out ahead (or at least even to those who are STILL in favor of the trade).

why should Nets of been having a fire sale? We were a medicore team, and wanted to still try to make the playoffs last year, yes we didn't but at least kind of tried.:o

Underdog
11-18-2008, 02:31 PM
The point that we can't win with Devin is beyond moot when the same goes for Kidd. There's no way we are winning it with him. And Cuban and Donnie are to blame for the trade because we gave up too much for Kidd so we couldn't get a slasher and again that's why the trade was a bad move. NJ should have been having a fire sale and instead they come out ahead (or at least even to those who are STILL in favor of the trade).

So what does crying about it accomplish?

Isn't this entire discussion "moot" since the trade already happened???


Maybe we should look to the future for answers instead of harping on the past... Do you have any good suggestions on how to get a slasher in our lineup? What about Gerald Green - could he be our next Devin?

buddha08
11-18-2008, 02:44 PM
Maybe we should look to the future for answers instead of harping on the past...

We look at history so as not to repeat our mistakes in the future. That's why this thread is important. Do you trust Cuban and Donnie not to make another such mistake?

Underdog
11-18-2008, 02:45 PM
We look at history so as not to repeat our mistakes in the future. That's why this thread is important. Do you trust Cuban and Donnie not to make another such mistake?

So then the conversation should be "fire Donnie" rather than "Kidd vs Harris," should it not?

And there's a big difference between learning from the past and living in the past...

DirkFTW
11-18-2008, 02:52 PM
http://www.psidea.org/images/BangHeadHere.gif

Hrlp, I nrrd to reutrn your kit plaese. I uesd it immediately on sceren wihtout readnig teh instructions, but I still hvae sterss and I think my comupter is almost beokrn.

fluid.forty.one
11-18-2008, 02:53 PM
So then the conversation should be "fire Donnie" rather than "Kidd vs Harris," should it not?

And there's a big difference between learning from the past and living in the past...

+pretend rep

Underdog
11-18-2008, 02:57 PM
Hrlp, I nrrd to reutrn your kit plaese. I uesd it immediately on sceren wihtout readnig teh instructions, but I still hvae sterss and I think my comupter is almost beokrn.

:D

FINtastic
11-18-2008, 04:03 PM
Hrlp, I nrrd to reutrn your kit plaese. I uesd it immediately on sceren wihtout readnig teh instructions, but I still hvae sterss and I think my comupter is almost beokrn.

lmao. Posts like these really make me wish the rep feature was still working.

Tokey41
11-18-2008, 10:54 PM
So what does crying about it accomplish?

Isn't this entire discussion "moot" since the trade already happened???


Maybe we should look to the future for answers instead of harping on the past... Do you have any good suggestions on how to get a slasher in our lineup? What about Gerald Green - could he be our next Devin?

There are people who still can't believe that Cuban let Nash walk, I don't think your going to get rid of the Harris talk in less than a year. As for a slasher, Green is apparently our answer for now. Maybe Stack can help net something like a Mike Miller or Michael Redd, then this trade wouldn't look so bleak.

But when you factor in the disgusting overpaying of Diop you can't deny how reckless the front office has been when signing players.

Thespiralgoeson
11-18-2008, 11:10 PM
So what does crying about it accomplish?

Isn't this entire discussion "moot" since the trade already happened???


Maybe we should look to the future for answers instead of harping on the past... Do you have any good suggestions on how to get a slasher in our lineup? What about Gerald Green - could he be our next Devin?

Well, then pretty much every discussion we ever have about anything basketball related ever is moot, because we're not NBA execs and have no control over anything. Nothing we ever say here, past or present, ever "accomplishes" anything. It's a forum, dude. We're here to talk basketball, and that's what we're doing.

The Kidd trade sucked.

dirno2000
11-18-2008, 11:47 PM
It isn't "trash talk" about Devin - it's pointing out why we couldn't win it all with him (ever) and what we gained by trading him... Sure, we lost his slashing ability, but we gained a point guard to play the point guard position...

It's comforting to think that we never could have won with Devin but I doubt it's true. Even if it were true now whose to say it will be a year from now? I'm sure T-Wolves fans thought they'd never win a championship with 25 year old Chauncy Billups.

We lost slashing, gained a point guard yet we're no better on the floor. I love nothing more than to watch a pure PG run a team but I also understand that you don't need one to win in the NBA.

Don't get me wrong - I would have rather packaged JET and kept Devin at the 2, but it is what it is and Dirk seems to be a lot happier with Kidd's style of play than Devin's (I have yet to see him yell at Kidd the way he yelled at Harris on a regular basis...)

Dirk's happiness shouldn't be a concern. If we win Dirk will be happy. Kobe openly campainged for Kidd and ripped Bynum on and off the floor. Superstars don't always know best.

The blame doesn't lie on Kidd's shoulders - it lies on Cuban & Donnie's for not making another (obvious) move to pick up a slasher after we got Kidd... We traded one problem for another and we still don't have a legitimate shooting guard or low post threat (I also blame Stack for his part in costing us our greatest trade asset - the KVH contract...)

You're ignoring the fact that sending two first rounders and Diop to New Jersey made it next to impossible to get an impact swing player in here. The trade left us with very few bullets in the gun.

At best, we'd be treading water with Devin... We took a gamble with Kidd and it could have paid off if the front office had the balls/brains to make another move... It's still not too late to add a missing piece to this team, but if it doesn't happen by the All-Star break, then we're probably blowing it up (and that would still be the case if Devin was on our roster...)

Again, the trade severely hampered out ability to blow it up. Devin has more trade value than Kidd and we gave away a potential 2010 lottery pick.

Pulling out of the deal would have put us in a better position to compete now or to rebuild later.

ty
11-19-2008, 01:02 AM
Ironically, I actually have a poster that looks essentially just like that sitting on my desk as we speak.

Weird.

Why desk? Why not brick wall?

jthig32
11-19-2008, 06:53 AM
Why desk? Why not brick wall?

I don't have a brick wall at my office. :D

basketballgirl25
11-20-2008, 05:48 PM
interesting read for anyone who wants too
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/nets/Nets_likely_got_the_best_of_Cuban.html

RaphAC
11-22-2008, 07:21 AM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/devin_harris/

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/

wow..Im sure this has been posted, but so far devin is showing us up.... :(

Underdog
11-22-2008, 07:31 AM
SOMEBODY has to score when you're not playing with Dirk...

Dallas2009CHAMPS
11-22-2008, 08:01 AM
Devin might be good and young but give him just one injury and look at him wither like an overbroiled carrot..

Kidd, however, is old, lost a step or two, might not be as good as his better days... but if the mavs want to win now.. they made the right choice.. believe me.. Kidd is hungry for that ring and come playoff time.. He'll be playing like a BAD BAD WOLF.. Mark my words

Dirkenstien
11-22-2008, 09:08 AM
If you actually watch the Nets games it's not difficult to see why we traded him for Kidd. He's quick and has decent skills, but that's about it. He makes terrible decisions, doesn't have a good outside shot, is a pretty bad defender and can't lead a team. Calderon got basically anything he wanted against Devin and kept driving past him into the lane and then dishing off for the easy assist baskets (15 assist 26 points against Devin).

When the game was on the line Carter was the one handling the ball and creating his own shots to keep the Nets alive.

basketballgirl25
11-22-2008, 10:03 AM
When the game was on the line Carter was the one handling the ball and creating his own shots to keep the Nets alive.

when the game was on the line later in the fourth yeah Cart did more, but Harris got Nets back in the game earier in the fourth, I'm not taking anything away from Kidd saying Harris is the better player, because Kidd is the better player, but I think Harris is the better player playing with VC, they mesh better together then Kidd and Carter did.

alby
11-22-2008, 11:31 AM
If you actually watch the Nets games it's not difficult to see why we traded him for Kidd. He's quick and has decent skills, but that's about it. He makes terrible decisions, doesn't have a good outside shot, is a pretty bad defender and can't lead a team. Calderon got basically anything he wanted against Devin and kept driving past him into the lane and then dishing off for the easy assist baskets (15 assist 26 points against Devin).

When the game was on the line Carter was the one handling the ball and creating his own shots to keep the Nets alive.
Winner.

basketballgirl25
11-22-2008, 11:40 AM
Winner.

kind of winner, if it wasn't for Harris at the start of the fourth we wouldn't have been in the game for Carter to make those shots, it was a great effort by both of them. I'm still happy we WON, now we got to beat the Clippers tonight:)

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 12:02 PM
SOMEBODY has to score when you're not playing with Dirk...

Somebody has to score when you are playing with Dirk. He doesn't average 50 a game.

cowdog80
11-22-2008, 04:46 PM
Doesn't seem to hurt the Spurs any. Tony Parker is no quarterback. He and Harris really have about the same skill set, except Harrs is better defensively and he's a better 3 point shooter.

Tony Parker's come a long way as the Spurs QB. He's not the prototypical PG, more like the QB who looks for the running lane first, then puts the ball up to his ear to throw it.

But you can notice a definite shift in their offense running through him over the past 2 years compared to Duncan (up until about 2004) and Ginobili (2005-2006).

cowdog80
11-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I think the back problems have more to do with age and minutes he gets a night than it hasto do with taking charges IMO.



I agree. I can't believe how quickly we've forgotten Harris' impact he had against the Spurs 2 straight years. I know Spurs fans haven't forgotten it. That's what my main concern with the trade was. In had a guy in Harris who could go speed for speed with Paul, Deron and Tony Parker. And those are just guys in the West lol. I knew Kidd was a player. I just didn't think he was the player for this team and I sure as hell didn't think the Mavs were a Kidd away from winning a championship.

Agreed. When the Kidd trade was announced, Spurstalk was much happier than this site.

FINtastic
11-22-2008, 05:13 PM
I might have to give Devin some props. I saw a highlight last night where he crossed over a guy, started driving, and then stopped on a dime and hit a 17 footer. I have no way of knowing whether that's a reliable move for him or not these days since I only saw that one highlight, but he sure looked smooth doing it. If he's doing that with any consistency, then maybe he is taking the next step. A move like that on a super-quick player like Devin is going to be really hard to stop.

I don't know, it was just one highlight but it did leave me impressed.

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 05:21 PM
If you actually watch the Nets games it's not difficult to see why we traded him for Kidd. He's quick and has decent skills, but that's about it. He makes terrible decisions, doesn't have a good outside shot, is a pretty bad defender and can't lead a team. Calderon got basically anything he wanted against Devin and kept driving past him into the lane and then dishing off for the easy assist baskets (15 assist 26 points against Devin).

When the game was on the line Carter was the one handling the ball and creating his own shots to keep the Nets alive.

And despite all his faults New Jersey, a team picked by many to finish last in the East, is 5-3 with him in the line up. You can take any player in the league and pick apart his game to find the negatives but in the end it's all about the positives to outweighing those negatives right?

Bayliss
11-22-2008, 05:27 PM
And despite all his faults New Jersey, a team picked by many to finish last in the East, is 5-3 with him in the line up. You can take any player in the league and pick apart his game to find the negatives but in the end it's all about the positives to outweighing those negatives right?

How many games will Devin play this year, Dirno?

Dirkadirkastan
11-22-2008, 05:37 PM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/devin_harris/

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/

wow..Im sure this has been posted, but so far devin is showing us up.... :(

I don't get it. Kidd is leading in G, GS, MPG, FG%, 3P%, OREB, DREB, APG, SPG, BPG, and has fewer fouls per game.

Devin is leading in PPG, FT%, and has fewer TOs.

Is there anything that surprises you about any of this?

alby
11-22-2008, 05:41 PM
I don't get it. Kidd is leading in G, GS, MPG, FG%, 3P%, OREB, DREB, APG, SPG, BPG, and has fewer fouls per game.

Devin is leading in PPG, FT%, and has fewer TOs.

Is there anything that surprises you about any of this?
winner.

LonghornDub
11-22-2008, 05:46 PM
I don't get it. Kidd is leading in G, GS, MPG, FG%, 3P%, OREB, DREB, APG, SPG, BPG, and has fewer fouls per game.

Devin is leading in PPG, FT%, and has fewer TOs.

Is there anything that surprises you about any of this?

Not to mention, Kidd is on a team where he is about the 6th or so option as a scorer. Devin is the 2nd option. Kidd would (and did) have a higher PPG if he still played for the Nets.

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 06:15 PM
How many games will Devin play this year, Dirno?

I don't know.

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 06:27 PM
I don't get it. Kidd is leading in G, GS, MPG, FG%, 3P%, OREB, DREB, APG, SPG, BPG, and has fewer fouls per game.

Devin is leading in PPG, FT%, and has fewer TOs.

Is there anything that surprises you about any of this?

Harris is leading in A/TO. That's a bit surprising. I'd say it's also surprising that Kidd is leading in FG% even if the difference is only .002. Based on his history my guess is that Kidd's fg% will eventually level out in the mid 40's.

Also, you mentioned that Devin was leading in FT% but left out the reason that's so important. He's shooting more FT's per game than Kobe, Lebron and Dwayne Wade.

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Not to mention, Kidd is on a team where he is about the 6th or so option as a scorer. Devin is the 2nd option. Kidd would (and did) have a higher PPG if he still played for the Nets.

I'm not so sure about that. Kidd averaged 11.3 with the Nets last year and he's averaging 10.2 this year. His scoring rate has gone down every season since 2002-2003 so while he may be scoring an extra point a game in NJ I doubt it would be much more.

FINtastic
11-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Harris is leading in A/TO. That's a bit surprising. I'd say it's also surprising that Kidd is leading in FG% even if the difference is only .002. Based on his history my guess is that Kidd's fg% will eventually level out in the mid 40's.

Also, you mentioned that Devin was leading in FT% but left out the reason that's so important. He's shooting more FT's per game than Kobe, Lebron and Dwayne Wade.

I think the fact that those are surprising can be attributed more to statistical anomaly at this point than any serious trend developing. Part of the reason I can't take this scoring splurge as seriously is the fact that he's needed such a ridiculous amount of free throws to do it. He's certainly not going to end up with more free throws per game than the likes of LeBron, D-Wade, and Kobe.

And maybe he's gotten smarter on the court since I last saw him, but I imagine that A/TO ratio will level off.

Bayliss
11-22-2008, 06:37 PM
I don't know

And that was one of the problems with him as a Mav. He made the Mavs really good. He also missed huge chunks of the year. If he was healthy last year, the Mavs probably wouldn't have traded him.

You can't count on him to be a full time for 75+ games. The two times he did it for the Mavs? He only averaged 15 and 26 minutes respectively.

The only issue with the trade is the first round picks, which (IMO) are pretty worthless if the Mavs make the playoffs and become low first rounders... if you said the Mavs traded Ager and PPod, (IMO) it wouldn't matter. That is what most late first rounders become. Gone after their rookie contract is up.

dirno2000
11-22-2008, 06:53 PM
You continue to overlook the value of 1st rounders as trade currency.

Plus Podkolzine could have been Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Sasha Vujacic etc. You don't devalue the 21st pick in the draft just because we made a bad pick there in the past.

I'd agree though that durability may prove to be Devin's downfall. Time will tell.

Bayliss
11-22-2008, 07:00 PM
You continue to overlook the value of 1st rounders as trade currency.

Plus Podkolzine could have been Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Sasha Vujacic etc. You don't devalue the 21st pick in the draft just because we made a bad pick there in the past.

It isn't devaluing the pick because the Mavs selected PPod. They also selected Josh Howard. But in the long run, most late first rounders amount to nothing. So if you go by the odds, then essentially the picks are pretty worthless.

Shoot you can pretty much buy a late first rounder any time you want. Portland does it all the time.

xraided199
11-22-2008, 07:06 PM
This just makes me angry. Up until his ankle injury, I thought Devin was one of the only bright spots last year (the other being Bass.) And so what do we do? We trade him for a guy a decade older with half his speed. I remember saying last year that Devin had surpassed Josh as our second-best player. I still believe that.

What was the logic behind trading for Kidd again? "Win now." Wasn't that it? What a crock of sh*t that was.

+100 to you my kind sir

THANK YOU! you said it absolutely perfectly. even if Kidd is surprisingly playing better than an 82-year old with a broken back and a walker, there is NO doubt that Harris would be a million times better for us right now. we took many steps back with that trade, and i will always regret it.

Bayliss
11-22-2008, 07:08 PM
If the trade doesn't happen... Avery would still be here btw.

Janett_Reno
11-22-2008, 08:25 PM
After 3 q's, Harris has an amazing 12 fta's. This guy can flat take it to the rim. I also agree, if the trade of Harris did not happen, Avery would still be here.

Janett_Reno
11-22-2008, 08:40 PM
Kidd is having a good year and where Harris drives, Kidd can rebound and is better ast man. Looking last night at the Memphis game i want to point out Memphis really sux. Those guys never look to go into the painr but first man touches it, jack it up. They will never win that way as Mark Gasol isn't to bad but they just do not look to go into the paint.

Kidd was smart and would back the smaller pg back into the paint, one on one and spin around and lay up off him. I think his name was Conley. Kidd is smart and doing good for us but the make up of our team isn't great for him. Singleton, this guy was athletic and can jump but as he would rebound he would be scarred to go right back up and dunk the ball and would wait untill people would come get on him. If he would use his athletic skills he could help us.

I would like to see what this team could do with an inside scorrer, a starter or bench man comming in. Either one. This would help our whole team if we get an inside game. I have not watched NJ but i bet they still have no inside game either and like here, Harris has to drive the ball to the rim for his team to be effective. In half court and he does do it good.

Tokey41
11-22-2008, 09:18 PM
Do you people know why we love Dirk? That's the same reason I love Devin. They are both efficient. He's 7th in PER right now, he's actually out performing Dirk in terms of efficiency. When he has the ball he makes it count, those are players your supposed to cherish. What's Kidd's PER compared to Devin's... exactly.

He's definitely going to be in consideration for most improved player. All-star team? Probably not this year.

ghazi
11-23-2008, 02:26 AM
Do you people know why we love Dirk? That's the same reason I love Devin. They are both efficient. He's 7th in PER right now, he's actually out performing Dirk in terms of efficiency. When he has the ball he makes it count, those are players your supposed to cherish. What's Kidd's PER compared to Devin's... exactly.

He's definitely going to be in consideration for most improved player. All-star team? Probably not this year.

But having Kidd on the team last year improved the production of Dampier, Terry, and Nowitzki... so you can't JUST compare Kidd's PER to Devin's PER. The only player who dropped, rather ominously, after the Kidd trade, was Howard.

I don't mind the Kidd trade at all. We can play what if games all day long but if we're not winning a championship with Kidd, we certainly weren't winning a championship with Devin Harris and two draft picks that could be used to pick up another piece (again, this is a hypothetical "what if" scenario).

fluid.forty.one
11-23-2008, 02:42 AM
All you pro devin guys are ignoring an important point.

What happens to a devin harris when he goes from a team with 3 other "better" scorers to a team with only one. His scoring increases. Trade howard to the crappiest team in the league and his ppg will go up 6 points.

Devin got better from the trade.

Dirk (I shouldn't even need to go on after this point, this is the most important part of the whole thing), damp, terry etc (and howard this year) get better for our side.

Ill take that any day of the week.

If devin was here he would not be scoring 30 consistantly, as a lot of those shots would be going to terry, josh and dirk so why should it matter if he's doing a 2 man game with vince carter. It doesn't change our reality.

Also, think about it this way.. What exactly was holding devin back from playing how he is now? It obviously wasn't avery since devin still willing takes advice phone calls from him and avery "didn't want the trade". The real reason for the production increase is because he's not in competition for his shots, and he's getting fouled waaay too much.

jthig32
11-23-2008, 07:09 AM
I'm not even willing to enter into a debate on whether Devin would be helping the Mavs more this season. It's just silly. Kidd is playing very well. He is making a lot of things go on this team.

If you want to debate the merits of the trade for the long term, I'm on board with that. But Jason Kidd will prove, over the course of this season, that he is, right now, a better basketball player than Devin Harris. And he's a better fit for this team.

Tokey41
11-23-2008, 11:42 AM
So the only reason Harris got any better is because he's on a worse team? It has nothing to do with his development as a player? On a team where Harris is the second banana the Nets are 6-6, on a team where Kidd is our second/third best player the Mavs are 6-7 (in a statistically weaker conference no less). I'd take Devin as our second banana if it meant winning, the Nets are clearly exceeding their expectations for this season thus far playing .500 ball. The Mavs expectations? I don't exactly know what the consensus here is but for me it's a championship or nothing.

If you want to pull the passing game automatically makes us better card that's fine. But I hope you don't forget that winning 67 games and making a finals appearance doesn't just happen. And yes, we accomplished those feats with players that prefer iso's... but so what? It worked. I stand by the statement that if we don't replicate the success we had with our previous team then this trade should undoubtedly be considered a failure.

basketballgirl25
11-23-2008, 01:41 PM
I'd take Devin as our second banana if it meant winning, the Nets are clearly exceeding their expectations for this season thus far playing .500 ball.

and hopefully Nets continue to exceed their expectations, because I'm loving how Brook is doing along with all the other players

dirno2000
11-23-2008, 02:48 PM
All you pro devin guys are ignoring an important point.

What happens to a devin harris when he goes from a team with 3 other "better" scorers to a team with only one. His scoring increases. Trade howard to the crappiest team in the league and his ppg will go up 6 points.

NJ's not he crappiest team in the league. Their record is slightly better than ours and with Devin in the lineup they're a winning team.

I'm probably the biggest Josh Howard supporter on the board but he's not a 26ppg scorer. He's found his natural level and it's at around 20ppg. Send him to OK City and he may score a few more points but his fg% would likely suffer.

Dirk (I shouldn't even need to go on after this point, this is the most important part of the whole thing), damp, terry etc (and howard this year) get better for our side.

I think this a case of you seeing what you expect to see. The numbers really don't support it. Terry's scoring rate is up slightly but his fg% is the lowest it's been since he got to Dallas. Probably because he has to take the shots that Kidd doesn't. Dirk's PER is at it's lowest level since 2003-2004 (the Antoine Walker year). Damp's shooting 64% but he shot 64% last year and 63% the year before. His points per 40 minutes are down a bit this year.

If devin was here he would not be scoring 30 consistantly, as a lot of those shots would be going to terry, josh and dirk so why should it matter if he's doing a 2 man game with vince carter. It doesn't change our reality.

He'd be scoring a few less points but if you don't think we could use his points in the paint and his ability to get to the line and get the other team in the penalty you're not being honest with yourself.

Also, think about it this way.. What exactly was holding devin back from playing how he is now? It obviously wasn't avery since devin still willing takes advice phone calls from him and avery "didn't want the trade". The real reason for the production increase is because he's not in competition for his shots, and he's getting fouled waaay too much.

Devin didn't develop as fast as we'd have liked largely because didn't have a clear path to the starting PG spot the Paul, Parker and Williams had. We had Jason Terry and we were trying to win the West every year so it was hard to force feed him minutes at the 1. That changed last year when we finally gave him the ball but then we traded him in the middle of the season.

Thespiralgoeson
11-24-2008, 06:16 AM
NJ's not he crappiest team in the league. Their record is slightly better than ours and with Devin in the lineup they're a winning team.

I'm probably the biggest Josh Howard supporter on the board but he's not a 26ppg scorer. He's found his natural level and it's at around 20ppg. Send him to OK City and he may score a few more points but his fg% would likely suffer.



I think this a case of you seeing what you expect to see. The numbers really don't support it. Terry's scoring rate is up slightly but his fg% is the lowest it's been since he got to Dallas. Probably because he has to take the shots that Kidd doesn't. Dirk's PER is at it's lowest level since 2003-2004 (the Antoine Walker year). Damp's shooting 64% but he shot 64% last year and 63% the year before. His points per 40 minutes are down a bit this year.



He'd be scoring a few less points but if you don't think we could use his points in the paint and his ability to get to the line and get the other team in the penalty you're not being honest with yourself.



Devin didn't develop as fast as we'd have liked largely because didn't have a clear path to the starting PG spot the Paul, Parker and Williams had. We had Jason Terry and we were trying to win the West every year so it was hard to force feed him minutes at the 1. That changed last year when we finally gave him the ball but then we traded him in the middle of the season.

I agree with everything this man just said. All this stuff about Dirk, Terry, and Damp being "better" with Kidd than they were with Devin... It's just not happening.

dude1394
11-26-2008, 09:08 PM
Funny stuff....Devin shows it to the lakers girls. And has to be pulled out of their.

http://sportscracklepop.com/2008/11/26/devin-harris-enjoys-diving-into-the-laker-girls/

Tokey41
11-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Weird, I thought Avery had Devin fixed...

basketballgirl25
11-27-2008, 05:19 AM
that was the greatest video, I missed that play being on east coast time, meant I was sleeping, hahaha

chumdawg
11-27-2008, 11:31 AM
Weird, I thought Avery had Devin fixed...That's funny!

DevinHarriswillstart
11-27-2008, 12:11 PM
Harris is having an undeniably excellent year thus far. 22.5 points, 6.3 assists, 1.2 steals and a better than 3 to 1 assist/turnover ratio.

Noone can question his talent or what he brings to the floor each night.

Can he stay injury free though?

dude1394
11-27-2008, 04:15 PM
Devin is looking like a stud. Good luck to my nephew.

buddha08
11-29-2008, 11:34 PM
Devin gets to the line more than the current Mavs' roster combined. We are screwed if we don't start getting to the line more. Devin would have been so much better for this team, especially under Carlisle. I imagine he would flourish as Terry has as of late, and I suspect we would have a record better than .500. Devin defends exceptionally well, shares some of the scoring burden (something Kidd doesn't), and gets to the line. Arghhhhh. I'm still pissed off about the Kidd trade!!!!!

buddha08
11-29-2008, 11:36 PM
Say Kidd walks next year. Who the hell leads this team JJB? How are we ever going to land a talented replacement with other need to fill as well? Suckssssssss.....

chumdawg
11-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Say Kidd walks next year. Who the hell leads this team JJB? How are we ever going to land a talented replacement with other need to fill as well? Suckssssssss.....Trust me, this franchise has a lot of experience with MVP-quality quards walking on us. Don't worry about it.

fluid.forty.one
11-29-2008, 11:55 PM
Trust me, this franchise has a lot of experience with MVP-quality quards walking on us. Don't worry about it.

Kidd is just holding Dirk back.

dirno2000
11-29-2008, 11:59 PM
Say Kidd walks next year. Who the hell leads this team JJB? How are we ever going to land a talented replacement with other need to fill as well? Suckssssssss.....

We're not letting Kidd walk. We're either trading him or resigning him. Letting him walk would be a sign that we're rebuilding and it's hard to rebuild when you've traded away your first lottery pick. Not impossible but hard.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 12:03 AM
Kidd is just holding Dirk back.I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it. But it's a very good point.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 12:05 AM
We're not letting Kidd walk. We're either trading him or resigning him. Letting him walk would be a sign that we're rebuilding and it's hard to rebuild when you've traded away your first lottery pick. Not impossible but hard.It has nothing to do with draft picks. It has everything to do with roster flexibility.

dirno2000
11-30-2008, 12:08 AM
Yea right. And of course there's no connection between draft picks and roster flexibility.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 12:16 AM
Well, you tell me. What did we gain in the way of draft picks and roster flexibility in the wake of the brilliant not-matching-Nash move?

DevinHarriswillstart
11-30-2008, 12:44 AM
These fantastic games by Harris are kinda like a punch in the stomach.

dirno2000
11-30-2008, 12:50 AM
Well, you tell me. What did we gain in the way of draft picks and roster flexibility in the wake of the brilliant not-matching-Nash move?

I didn't know we were talking about Nash. Thought we were talking about Kidd.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 12:57 AM
I didn't know we were talking about Nash. Thought we were talking about Kidd.As you like it.

Of course, that does shine another light on it.

FINtastic
11-30-2008, 01:34 AM
I didn't know we were talking about Nash. Thought we were talking about Kidd.

You might as well have been prepared to talk about Nash. You must have forgotten that as the number of posts in a thread approaches infinity, the probability of chum mentioning the Mavs' decision to let Nash walk approaches one. It's a borderline theorem on these boards.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 01:51 AM
And it gets more and more relevant all the time.

dirno2000
11-30-2008, 02:02 AM
I guess you could say that in retrospect as our window appears to have closed. But it also appears that the Devin trade is what slammed it shut so, again, you're burying the lead.

Put another way, you had your run. It was a nice one too as Nash walked away with back to back MVP's and knocked us out of the playoffs in 2005. But at this point Nash to PHX is yesterday's news as we have a new former PG tearing up the league.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 02:14 AM
I'm sure you and I would both like to live '06 differently, but that's water under the proverbial bridge. You seem to express some dissatisfaction over the trade of Devin Harris for Jason Kidd. Well...at least you got Jason Kidd in the deal.

If anyone is burying the lede, as it were, it is you, my friend. Nash and Harris were once teammates.

Let that sink in.

alby
11-30-2008, 02:16 AM
So were Kidd and Nash ;)

at least we have one of those two!

basketballgirl25
11-30-2008, 04:50 AM
I'm loving how Devin Harris thise year :D

and it Devin wan't in the NBA what would he be doing?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11292008/sports/nets/nets_have_variety_of_backup_jobs_141417.htm

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 08:47 PM
Devin with 26, 5 and 6 thru 28 minutes so far in the 3rd against Phoenix. That boy good. I'm so glad this board archives all old posts so I have proof of how much I was against this trade from day 1 and not just jumping on the bandwagon.

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:08 PM
Devin Harris is the BEST PG in the east at this point, as of right now he has 36 pts, 5 rebs and 6 assists.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 09:14 PM
He never put up numbers like that with us.

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:14 PM
now 36. I'd love to have his scoring and defensive ability on this team...

Oh yeah, we could have added some front court depth in Ryan Anderson, who the nets took with our pick or someone like Darrell "shady" Arthur. Or we could have taken a backup pg such as George Hill instead of JJB. Don't forget we still have to give up another 1st in 2010. What an ass-raping of epic proportions this trade was and I still harbor ill-will towards the franchise for their reactive nature of last year instead of being a forward-thinking club.

Looking like the Maverick version of the Joey Galloway trade more and more each day. That set the Cowboys back 10 years some argue.

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:16 PM
I love Kidd and all but we really overpaid when we traded for him...:(

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 09:16 PM
Devin Harris under Avery Johnson was never going to be more than a lap dog.

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:18 PM
He never put up numbers like that with us.

I blame that on Avery Johnson.

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:20 PM
Devin Harris under Avery Johnson was never going to be more than a lap dog.

so what...Avery Johnson is gone. Devin Harris was 24 years old when we unloaded his ass for an overrated has-been that never was.

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:22 PM
he's going to screw around and drop 40 on Nash tonight...

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:26 PM
so what...Avery Johnson is gone. Devin Harris was 24 years old when we unloaded his ass for an overrated has-been that never was.

I understand you might not like Kidd but we're not getting Devin back. There is nothing you can do about it, sometimes it hurts(like right now) when I see Devin kicking tail for another team but we just have to hope that Kidd can play well for us.

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:27 PM
And Devin just hit a clutch shot

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I understand you might not like Kidd but we're not getting Devin back. There is nothing you can do about it, sometimes it hurts(like right now) when I see Devin kicking tail for another team but we just have to hope that Kidd can play well for us.

Hey, I understand. I just enjoy crowing that I am much smarter than the mav front office. Of this, I have no doubt.

jthig32
11-30-2008, 09:28 PM
so what...Avery Johnson is gone. Devin Harris was 24 years old when we unloaded his ass for an overrated has-been that never was.

An overrated has-been that never was????

Hyperbole much?

jthig32
11-30-2008, 09:29 PM
Hey, I understand. I just enjoy crowing that I am much smarter than the mav front office. Of this, I have no doubt.

Yeah hou should totally be running the Mavs.

LSMF
11-30-2008, 09:30 PM
Devin has 41 pts, 6 rebs and 8 assists

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:31 PM
Yeah hou should totally be running the Mavs.

correct.

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:33 PM
43

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:34 PM
4th quarter numbers so far...

Devin Harris 17
Phoenix 17

jthig32
11-30-2008, 09:35 PM
I loved Devin when he was here. And I wish I could say I'm happy for him. But in my heart I wish failure on him because I don't know if I can take another Nash-type situation on this board for the next 10 years.

DubOverdose
11-30-2008, 09:35 PM
Harris is awesome. I loved George when he blocked the trade...then we made another trade without George in it and lost the stud that is Devin. I'm going to the Nets-Wiz game on Tuesday, let's hope he keeps his hot play up for the Wiz so I can enjoy!

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:39 PM
19 to 19. Devin with 45. jeez.

I'm going to go clean my shotgun and hope it discharges mistakenly...

The Crippler
11-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Finishes with 47.

Cuban can EABOD. Donnie, feel free also.

basketballgirl25
11-30-2008, 09:44 PM
Harris is awesome. I loved George when he blocked the trade...then we made another trade without George in it and lost the stud that is Devin. I'm going to the Nets-Wiz game on Tuesday, let's hope he keeps his hot play up for the Wiz so I can enjoy!

your going to the Nets game Tuesday, hopefully it will be a good game, I'm going too and if they win it will be the first game since the 2007 season that the Nets won when I was there, haha

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Harris scored 47? Are you kidding me?

ddh33
11-30-2008, 10:09 PM
Told you so.

Windmill360
11-30-2008, 10:11 PM
don't worry....we'll just breed another pg.








and then trade him away.

fluid.forty.one
11-30-2008, 10:12 PM
:(

basketballgirl25
11-30-2008, 10:12 PM
He is playing really well right now, loving it.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Told you so.Come again?

bcrav4
11-30-2008, 10:20 PM
I don't know whether to be happy or sad for trading away Devin. As someone else mentioned, at least Donnie drafted well in 2004.

EricaLubarsky
11-30-2008, 10:38 PM
I dont know what is more absurd-- Harris getting 47pts, 8reb, 7ast or the Suns allowing 43 points in a single quarter.

ghazi
11-30-2008, 10:44 PM
Where the hell did all of this come from Devin? Even those who opposed the trade couldn't have seen this coming. He's literally playing like a top 10 player in the NBA.

chumdawg
11-30-2008, 10:45 PM
47???? The kid scored 47?

Unbelievable.

Tokey41
11-30-2008, 11:03 PM
He's really going to be an all-star this year isn't he? There is no possible way they can deny him that spot. You can't name a better pg in the east. And the Mavericks suffering contnues...

dude1394
11-30-2008, 11:05 PM
Where the hell did all of this come from Devin? Even those who opposed the trade couldn't have seen this coming. He's literally playing like a top 10 player in the NBA.

It's obviously the last two coaches the mavs had...nellie and avery.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
11-30-2008, 11:09 PM
I'm loving how Devin Harris thise year :D

and it Devin wan't in the NBA what would he be doing?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11292008/sports/nets/nets_have_variety_of_backup_jobs_141417.htm

Drunk post.

Itachi
11-30-2008, 11:20 PM
Regardless of where Devin is, I'm glad to see him playing well.

LonghornDub
11-30-2008, 11:23 PM
Devin would have never dropped 47 for the Mavs until Dirk/Jet/Josh are old and retired.

Janett_Reno
11-30-2008, 11:26 PM
You want to win games? You go to the foul line and shoot 17 ft's and you will win.

NBA games start in the 4th quarter. NBA games go half court in the 4th. It is about penetration in the 4th quarter. It is about fta's in the 4th quarter. 43 points in the 4th by NJ.

You just don't stop Parker, Harris, Paul and where this comes from? It comes from Avery putting a governor on Harris when he was here. He wanted him to be Jason Kidd and become an ast man. He wasn't suppose to score because they felt we did not need scorring from the pg position but what this organazation did not know, was this team had no one to penetrate in the 4th without a Harris type player on this team. He was a very fast, quick, scorrer that could jump in college and it was a matter of time before some organazation let him do what he was capable of doing. Harris will never be the same. He is now free to score and use all his abilities.

Another reason teams had probs with Harris, Terry and Dirk was because Harris broke every player and team down in the nba and you fouled him, doubled or trippled him and he now kicks it to Terry or Dirk and those are two great shooters.

The only problem was he was young, Avery made him scarred because of jerking him in and out because of a turn over, because we had no center to make a basket in the 4th quarter. All this team had to do was get a big sg thru the draft or however andthis could have been a deadly combo, with small Terry and great shooter or the new sg that was tall and could drive, plus shoot and play defense for in the 4th with a lead, we played the big athletic defensive sg. Then snag an offensive paint man at some point. Then you are talking about one of the very best pg's in the league that opens your other players up, plus making it possible to compete and possibly winning titles the next several years. Instead we threw away about 4 years or so that we will be maybe 500 and untill we can unload baggage and start again. No chance for a title for Dallas in next two years or more.

The Mavs organazation was blind and pulled off an Atlanta Hawks deal as the Mavs thought all their probs of why they could not win it all was pg and they was blind to the fact they had one of the very best pg's in the nba. Not Kidd's, Harris fault but the Mavs organazation not knowing what was a problem and their weakness. The Mavs still have the same weakness as when Harris was here, plus it is harder for us to penetrate in the 4th now as we must bomb away against good teams or defensive teams that clamp down.

It was a good lesson to learn from our past mistakes. You see not only Nash could not guard him but the whole Phx team couldn't.

darkwitzki
11-30-2008, 11:30 PM
We let go of Nash, and he became an MVP, now we let go of Devin and he's going to be an all star.. If we let go of Stack, hell no..

dirno2000
11-30-2008, 11:31 PM
Devin would have never dropped 47 for the Mavs until Dirk/Jet/Josh are old and retired.

Why not? There are numerous instances over the years of 3rd and 4th options scoring 47+ on a given night. It's not like Josh an Dirk are they kind of players that HAVE to get their shots every night.

Dtownsfinest
11-30-2008, 11:32 PM
You want to win games? You go to the foul line and shoot 17 ft's and you will win.

NBA games start in the 4th quarter. NBA games go half court in the 4th. It is about penetration in the 4th quarter. It is about fta's in the 4th quarter. 43 points in the 4th by NJ.

You just don't stop Parker, Harris, Paul and where this comes from? It comes from Avery putting a governor on Harris when he was here. He wanted him to be Jason Kidd and become an ast man. He wasn't suppose to score because they felt we did not need scorring from the pg position but what this organazation did not know, was this team had no one to penetrate in the 4th without a Harris type player on this team. He was a very fast, quick, scorrer that could jump in college and it was a matter of time before some organazation let him do what he was capable of doing. Harris will never be the same. He is now free to score and use all his abilities.

Another reason teams had probs with Harris, Terry and Dirk was because Harris broke every player and team down in the nba and you fouled him, doubled or trippled him and he now kicks it to Terry or Dirk and those are two great shooters.

The only problem was he was young, Avery made him scarred because of jerking him in and out because of a turn over, because we had no center to make a basket in the 4th quarter. All this team had to do was get a big sg thru the draft or however andthis could have been a deadly combo, with small Terry and great shooter or the new sg that was tall and could drive, plus shoot and play defense for in the 4th with a lead, we played the big athletic defensive sg. Then snag an offensive paint man at some point. Then you are talking about one of the very best pg's in the league that opens your other players up, plus making it possible to compete and possibly winning titles the next several years. Instead we threw away about 4 years or so that we will be maybe 500 and untill we can unload baggage and start again. No chance for a title for Dallas in next two years or more.

The Mavs organazation was blind and pulled off an Atlanta Hawks deal as the Mavs thought all their probs of why they could not win it all was pg and they was blind to the fact they had one of the very best pg's in the nba. Not Kidd's, Harris fault but the Mavs organazation not knowing what was a problem and their weakness. The Mavs still have the same weakness as when Harris was here, plus it is harder for us to penetrate in the 4th now as we must bomb away against good teams or defensive teams that clamp down.

It was a good lesson to learn from our past mistakes. You see not only Nash could not guard him but the whole Phx team couldn't.

They seriously couldn't guard him.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2008/11/ipt/1228102693.jpg

Dtownsfinest
11-30-2008, 11:40 PM
We let go of Nash, and he became an MVP, now we let go of Devin and he's going to be an all star.. If we let go of Stack, hell no..

I hope this is some error in Yahoo's system but i'm looking at Marquis Daniels' stats and it says he's putting up 16 points 6 boards and a steal a game. Is this right? Seriously? What did we trade him for again? Croshere? Is he even in the league right now?

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 12:46 AM
I hope this is some error in Yahoo's system but i'm looking at Marquis Daniels' stats and it says he's putting up 16 points 6 boards and a steal a game. Is this right? Seriously? What did we trade him for again? Croshere? Is he even in the league right now?

Yeah, Quisy has been solid this season. I've got him on my fantasy team, and while he isn't tearing it up, he's definitely giving me scary numbers. His numbers might take a dip when Mike Dunlady comes back from his injury, but until then he's going to continue to get a lot of minutes. And say what you will, but Marquis has always produced when given the minutes.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 12:58 AM
I can't tell if some of you guys are serious in blaming Avery for holding Devin back. From what I've observed, it looks like Devin's developed a pretty serious pullup jumper over the offseason that he never had here. That's not Avery's fault that he could never hit it consistently and therefore was somewhat one-dimensional as a player (albeit still a pretty good dimension). I don't think anyone could have realistically predicted that he would develop it so quickly, but props to him for doing so. Moreover, he seems to be getting more love from the refs than he ever got here (I haven't really watched him enough to know whether it's justified or not). But regardless, a jump of about 7 extra free throw attempts a game is going to help anyone's scoring average.

I might have been wrong on Devin. We'll see, maybe that pullup jumper stops falling (although it looks pretty good in all the highlights). I do think the fact that he's averaging close 12 free throws is a bit of an aberration and can't see him averaging more than 8 for the season. So I do think that scoring average will come down. But he does seem to have taken a step forward.

nashtymavsfan13
12-01-2008, 01:13 AM
Devin is a flat out stud, and many of us knew that before the trade, and he's making us look real smart right now. The Harris for Kidd deal was terrible, no matter how you look at it. Devin is just getting into his prime and could go on to be a multiple time All-Star. I knew he'd be an All-Star in the East, but didn't know it'd be this soon. He's been amazing this year, playing like a top 20 player in the NBA. First Nash, now Devin.

fluid.forty.one
12-01-2008, 01:16 AM
He never put up numbers like that with us.

underrated point

twistaeffect2004
12-01-2008, 01:19 AM
And the front office fails again.

We'll get it right someday.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 01:29 AM
underrated point

Knowing chum, I wouldn't be surprised if he's reverting to Nash-schtick here.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 01:31 AM
I dont know what is more absurd-- Harris getting 47pts, 8reb, 7ast or the Suns allowing 43 points in a single quarter.

In a league where Tony Delk can go off for 50+ and Chris Duhon can put up 22 assists, I'll believe just about anything.

DevinHarriswillstart
12-01-2008, 02:56 AM
Just like Nash never put up his MVP numbers with us?

I dunno guys/gals....it's a pretty tough pill to swallow these days saying that Kidd for Harris was the right move. Kinda hard to spin 47, 8, 7 as something that he could have never done here. 17-17 on fts is something the Mavs could use right about now.

I always knew Harris could do this if dumbass Avery didn't hold him back. Sorry but I just don't believe it's just because we have other scorers on the team that Harris would not become the player he is today.

This is nauseating...47? Seriously? Ugh.

ghazi
12-01-2008, 04:03 AM
I dunno what to make of this. I don't hold any ill will toward the front office, but it's really hard to make a case that Kidd is better than Harris right now w/ the way he's been playing, althouhg this was my thought at the beginning of the season. Not that Kidd has played poorly, but Devin's playing like a top 10 player!! seriously!!

But it's all "what ifs".. we don't exactly know what would've happened had we not traded Harris.

basketballgirl25
12-01-2008, 05:46 AM
I can see from seeing parts of some games Kidd is better for the mavs then he was for Jersey, him and Carter just didn't mesh well, now Harris and Carter seem pretty good and mesh well together. So all in all it seems like a good trade for both teams so far

xavier
12-01-2008, 07:50 AM
i just saw the highlights of Harris against the suns. So it prompted me to check further into this years stats. He is off the charts!!!! He will be an AllStar this year which makes it more painfull that he isn't in a Mavs uni right now. Congrats Devin

Usually Lurkin
12-01-2008, 08:36 AM
I dunno what to make of this. I don't hold any ill will toward the front office, but it's really hard to make a case that Kidd is better than Harris right now w/ the way he's been playing, althouhg this was my thought at the beginning of the season. Not that Kidd has played poorly, but Devin's playing like a top 10 player!! seriously!!.

If, at the beginning of the season, your thought was that Devin Harris would be a top 10 player, dropping 47 points, then you, at the beginning of the season, were in a very, very small minority, and relying on hope more than anything else.

alby
12-01-2008, 09:21 AM
I love it how people who love Devin have to use the box score to defend him when things that don't appear on the box scores are what makes point guards really special.

LSMF
12-01-2008, 09:29 AM
Just like Nash never put up his MVP numbers with us?

I dunno guys/gals....it's a pretty tough pill to swallow these days saying that Kidd for Harris was the right move. Kinda hard to spin 47, 8, 7 as something that he could have never done here. 17-17 on fts is something the Mavs could use right about now.

I always knew Harris could do this if dumbass Avery didn't hold him back. Sorry but I just don't believe it's just because we have other scorers on the team that Harris would not become the player he is today.

This is nauseating...47? Seriously? Ugh.

I was thinking about some of the front offices moves last night and it was driving me nuts. We let Nash go and he becomes a 2 time MVP, We trade Marquis Daniels for Croshere, Daniels becomes the Pacers starting 2 guard while Averaging 16pts per game, We absolutely overpay for Kidd and trade Devin away. Now Devin has become the Best PG in the east and a All-Star. Why does the Front office do this to their fans? The worst part about all of this is that Devin is only 25 years old so he will probably still be kicking tail for about 10 more years....

LSMF
12-01-2008, 09:30 AM
I wonder if Dirk thinks about this trade in his mind...

jthig32
12-01-2008, 09:34 AM
I love it how people who love Devin have to use the box score to defend him when things that don't appear on the box scores are what makes point guards really special.

This is a tough point to stand on when he's fourth in the league in scoring on only 15 shots a game.

dirno2000
12-01-2008, 09:39 AM
I love it how people who love Devin have to use the box score to defend him when things that don't appear on the box scores are what makes point guards really special.

Really, you're still clinging to that point? He went for 47/6/8 but he didin't direct an offense like a true PG. As as sad before in this thread, your strengths can be so strong that they override you're your weakneses and Devin seems to have reached that point. Call him a 1, a 1.5, hell call him a 4 if you want. Dude is a beast.

He's averaging 12 FTA's a game while Kidd has shot 13 FT's all year. That kind of makes up for the fact that he can't make a great entry pass to the post.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Really, you're still clinging to that point? He went for 47/6/8 but he didin't direct an offense like a true PG. As as sad before in this thread, your strengths can be so strong that they override you're your weakneses and Devin seems to have reached that point. Call him a 1, a 1.5, hell call him a 4 if you want. Dude is a beast.

He's averaging 12 FTA's a game while Kidd has shot 13 FT's all year. That kind of makes up for the fact that he can't make a great entry pass to the post.

That FTA attempt number is a statistical anomaly as far as I'm concerned. You look through the numbers for the legends of the game, and not even they hit 12 FTA's for a season. I don't see that number lasting.

alby
12-01-2008, 09:48 AM
Devin is a hell of a talent. I am not denying that. Was he going to pan out if he stayed on the Mavericks? Under Avery's direction? We won't ever know... but no one can tell me that people predicted that this was going to happen before the season began. Just cause he just went off for 47, people are now yelling and hollering. Didn't Tony Delk score 50 in a game once?

LSMF
12-01-2008, 09:49 AM
Honestly I think if Kidd has a weak game tonight there is going to be a lot of "head scratching" going on about this trade. I just hope we can get another Good Pg eventually, and when we get that Pg don't build him up and then trade him away.

jthig32
12-01-2008, 09:51 AM
Devin is a hell of a talent. I am not denying that. Was he going to pan out if he stayed on the Mavericks? Under Avery's direction? We won't ever know... but no one can tell me that people predicted that this was going to happen before the season began. Just cause he just went off for 47, people are now yelling and hollering. Didn't Tony Delk score 50 in a game once?

Come on dude. You really damage your credibility when you try and chalk this up as a one game thing. Take away last night's game and he's still averaging almost 24 points a game.

He's been one of the best players in the NBA this season. It's just a fact.

dirno2000
12-01-2008, 09:52 AM
That FTA attempt number is a statistical anomaly as far as I'm concerned. You look through the numbers for the legends of the game, and not even they hit 12 FTA's for a season. I don't see that number lasting.

I tend to agree but I agreed when you said it two weeks ago and I believe it's gone up since then :). Whatever the number settles at it's going to be higher than any of our guys put up.

erdubya
12-01-2008, 09:53 AM
I know we all get nausea when looking at that 47,8,7 and 17 for 17 line...

But just think how Nets fans are feeling (or will feel) about practically giving Antoine Wright away.

Besides... Antoine Wright plays D...and Harris hardly put a muzzle on Nash last night.

Edit:
Not saying Wright and Harris are equal by no means... but just thinking about everything (scoring/defense/kidd's expiring contract/devin's near-max deal coming up/etc.) makes me feel a little better about the trade.

alby
12-01-2008, 09:54 AM
Come on dude. You really damage your credibility when you try and chalk this up as a one game thing. Take away last night's game and he's still averaging almost 24 points a game.

He's been one of the best players in the NBA this season. It's just a fact.
I haven't denied that once. If you remember from the past, I'm one of the bigger Devin backers on this board. It just peeves me when an Ex-Mav is getting more attention than the current Mavericks. I wish Devin well and I want him to do well when he's not playing Dallas. But the love-fest is over the top and frankly, pretty annoying.

bernardos70
12-01-2008, 09:54 AM
Waiting on the yearly injury that would have put us in a bind if he was still our PG.....

I honestly was never a Devin Harris fan. For all of the (what I consider) dud years he had here, he's gonna have to keep this up for the whole year (his averages, or at least close to it) to impress me.

It's good times right now for your Devin Harris fans. I wish him nothing but well. But his play for us is still very vivid in my mind, and he is one of my least favorite mavs in recent years.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 09:55 AM
I tend to agree but I agreed when you said it two weeks ago and I believe it's gone up since then :). Whatever the number settles at it's going to be higher than any of our guys put up.

Yeah, I have to say I'm shocked that he's kept it up this long :p

If he does keep it up, you have to wonder about a league where a player can go from one team to another and suddenly triple his FTA numbers. I sure do wish he was getting that kind of love in the 2006 NBA Finals...

jthig32
12-01-2008, 09:55 AM
I haven't denied that once. If you remember from the past, I'm one of the bigger Devin backers on this board. It just peeves me when an Ex-Mav is getting more attention than the current Mavericks. I wish Devin well and I want him to do well when he's not playing Dallas. But the love-fest is over the top and frankly, pretty annoying.

I agree with that. Just don't try and discount what he's doing.

LSMF
12-01-2008, 09:57 AM
What makes Devin so good now is that he has pretty much combined all of his moves, he has that up and under move, he can get to the rim and finish with a layup or posterize the crap out of some one, he has developed a nice little floater and now he can really shoot the basketball. He's an all-star.

alby
12-01-2008, 09:58 AM
There's just no way that someone predicted Devin to average 25/6/4 before the year began. If you did, let me see your fantasy teams :)


I mean, he is scoring more than Kobe Bryant for crying out loud. This year has just been a little off.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 10:00 AM
There's just no way that someone predicted Devin to average 25/6/4 before the year began. If you did, let me see your fantasy teams :)

Screw fantasy, I want to know their stock picks. The only way you could have possibly predicted something like this would be the ability to see into the future.

alby
12-01-2008, 10:01 AM
Stay away from the market!

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 10:02 AM
Stay away from the market!

Hey if you could see into the future, you could make a killing off short-selling right now. Sadly, with my mortal powers I don't trust myself to play that type of game.

alexamenos
12-01-2008, 10:29 AM
I can't tell if some of you guys are serious in blaming Avery for holding Devin back. From what I've observed, it looks like Devin's developed a pretty serious pullup jumper over the offseason that he never had here. That's not Avery's fault that he could never hit it consistently and therefore was somewhat one-dimensional as a player (albeit still a pretty good dimension). I don't think anyone could have realistically predicted that he would develop it so quickly, but props to him for doing so. Moreover, he seems to be getting more love from the refs than he ever got here (I haven't really watched him enough to know whether it's justified or not). But regardless, a jump of about 7 extra free throw attempts a game is going to help anyone's scoring average.

I might have been wrong on Devin. We'll see, maybe that pullup jumper stops falling (although it looks pretty good in all the highlights). I do think the fact that he's averaging close 12 free throws is a bit of an aberration and can't see him averaging more than 8 for the season. So I do think that scoring average will come down. But he does seem to have taken a step forward.

12 fts a game might be a bit much, but the dude gets to the line as well as anyone in the league -- he's in AI territory, maybe better. Part of the reason he's getting to the line more often then in the past is simply because he has the ball in his hands more often.

Anyway, that's what the Mavs gave up in the deal -- the gave up the guy that could get them to the line at just about any time for a guy that never gets to the line.

I thought Harris was the 2nd most talented player on the team, and while I can't say I thought he had 47 in him I'm not terribly surprised that he's blowing up a bit.

DevinHarriswillstart
12-01-2008, 10:49 AM
I know I'm gonna get flack for this but who is having the better season so far?

Dirk or Harris?

You can easily make a case that Harris is. I think that is something to put into perspective.

chumdawg
12-01-2008, 10:52 AM
I think it is very important to remember that however well Harris is doing in New Jersey, the fact remains that he would not be doing near that well if he were still in Dallas. Different systems, different results. Harris just managed to find a place where he could throw up a bunch of stats. that's all.

alexamenos
12-01-2008, 10:54 AM
I think it is very important to remember that however well Harris is doing in New Jersey, the fact remains that he would not be doing near that well if he were still in Dallas. Different systems, different results. Harris just managed to find a place where he could throw up a bunch of stats. that's all.

yeah, kinda like when Nash went to Pheonix where he could through up a lot of stats.

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 10:58 AM
I think it is very important to remember that however well Harris is doing in New Jersey, the fact remains that he would not be doing near that well if he were still in Dallas. Different systems, different results. Harris just managed to find a place where he could throw up a bunch of stats. that's all.

I'm curious on your take on Nash's lack of stats now that D'antoni is gone...

DevinHarriswillstart
12-01-2008, 11:01 AM
I think it is very important to remember that however well Harris is doing in New Jersey, the fact remains that he would not be doing near that well if he were still in Dallas. Different systems, different results. Harris just managed to find a place where he could throw up a bunch of stats. that's all.

Well you know, this argument that Harris would not be able to have these stats because of the other scorers on our team gets weaker by the day.

If Harris turns out to be your best or tied for best player then wouldn't you choose him over guys who aren't as good? I'm really am trying to look at this objectively. I just don't buy this stuff that Harris wouldn't be able to be as good on our team.

jthig32
12-01-2008, 11:02 AM
I'm curious on your take on Nash's lack of stats now that D'antoni is gone...

I am as well, but you know as well as I do this is a lost cause.

Underdog
12-01-2008, 11:04 AM
I just don't buy this stuff that Harris wouldn't be able to be as good on our team.

Well, we have several years of proof that he wasn't...

FINtastic
12-01-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure why people are arguing as if the Devin Harris that is tearing it up right now in New Jersey is the same as the Devin Harris who wore a Mavericks uniform. He looks like a different player to me. I'm sorry, but you add a legit pullup jumper to a lightning fast player who already could take it to the hoop, and you've got a near-unguardable player. The Mavericks did not have that same player, they had a lightning fast player with a jumper that was shaky unless he was pretty much wide open. So this idea that they had this all along in Harris is flawed, imo.

But to answer the question being floated around, Harris would unquestionably be the #2 guy in Dallas this year. However, one ten game stretch wouldn't have me building the offense around him instead of Dirk.