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View Full Version : NO LOW POST GAME


TheKid
04-11-2001, 09:10 AM
I don't want to seem like I'm just bitching about the way the Mavericks played lastnight, but I am. I could care less about the rebounds and blocked shots that our "twin towers" had, because San Antonio's "twin towers" owned the paint!!!!!! They completely dominated, and I recall someone arguing with me that David Robinson NEVER dominates Bradley. Well, he did lastnight. Now Booth played admirably, however not great. Bradley (I thought anyway) SUCKED!!!!

I've said it before, if we don't have GOOD, I'm sorry EXCEPTIONAL low post play, we're going to lose in the first round!!! I don't care how much Finley, Dirk or Nash scores.

madape
04-11-2001, 10:15 AM
Bradley had 9 boards and 5 blocks. not that bad. Booth had similar numbers, 11 boards, 2 blocks. The problem was not with the defense, it was with the offense. Simply, the Mavs shot .354 from the field. You just can't do that and win against the spurs, and you can't blame the low shooting percentage on Bradley (even though he shot 1-8). It is not his job to score. We've got 4 guys to look for before Shawn, and none of them did their part last night. The big 4 were a combined 23-58. Thats poor. Give San Antonio credit for shutting them down. They played great, and we played terribly.

TheKid
04-11-2001, 10:47 AM
How can you say it wasn't defense. Forget percentages for a minute because they've won MANY games this year shooting terrible from the field. Look at averages, Fin scored 25 which is four points above his average. Dirk scored 20 which is two points below his average. Add in Juwan's 16 they accounted for 61 of the teams 79 points so I'm sorry they did they job. They should have and could have done MUCH better but we have to anticipate NASH won't play that bad always, so I'm not concerned about their scoring.

This I do know David Robinson had a season high lastnight. Between he and Duncan they scored 59 points which is almost what Dirk, Fin and Juwan scored. You have to counter that, either with scoring in the low post or better defense. We had neither. Now I'm not saying it's SOLELY Bradley's fault, but he's the one we look to stabilize the post. He and Booth that is, it's too early to expect Zhi-Zhi to have an effect down there so Bradley has to play better.

I've said that before too, I don't care what our big four does if Bradley and Booth doesn't control the low post, we won't win. It's that simple. You need to have a solid front line and good rebounding and good low post defense to win in the playoffs.

madape
04-11-2001, 12:54 PM
Remember, the Spurs didn't crack 80 points until there was about 4 minutes left in the fourth. Finley didn't do anything until he started draining 30 foot three pointers with less than 2 minutes left. The Mavs still kept the Spurs slightly below their average, but the mavs scored well below their season average. Duncan and Robinson are going to get their points. No matter how much I like Booth and Bradley, I am willing to concede that Duncan and Robinson will win that matchup (who in the NBA wins that matchup??). However, the Mavs should have the advantage on the outside. This is where we played below our abilities. If we had shot 50, 45, even 40 percent from the field, we could have won!

TheKid
04-11-2001, 02:24 PM
Madape, weren't you the one a few weeks ago that told me Robinson never dominates Bradley? I'm not sure if was you but someone did. I agree, they are the better of the two, but come on, 34 points. All though Robinson is the better center, that was a season high lastnight. If he hits his average, we win lastnight, do you realize that?

I said, I don't think our team played well lastnight. Fin had a sub par night, so did Dirk and Nash played terrible, but I'm saying despite that if we were able to handle the low post then we could have won that game also. Despite how bad we shot.

TheKid
04-11-2001, 03:19 PM
Madape, I didn't even read this article until just now. When you get a chance go to dallasbaketball.com and read the article slain by Giants. It's exactly what I was saying about our low post game last night. Check it out.

Mavinator
04-11-2001, 05:14 PM
I was the one saying that, and I was right, at the time... Bradley has held his own or outplayed Robinson in all three games prior to this one.

Flying Tiger
04-11-2001, 05:32 PM
I agree that he might have played to the best of his ability, but on his best day he's still no match for The Admiral.

Flying Tiger
04-11-2001, 05:33 PM
Speaking of that, why did that nickname kind of fade away?

Bookit
04-11-2001, 06:09 PM
you can't blame the low shooting percentage on Bradley (even though he shot 1-8). It is not his job to score

madape, come on. Did you watch the game? The 7 misses were from point blank range. Of course it is his job to score from that close. He is 7-6! His only hoop during the entire game was a baseline jumper and the game was out of reach at that point. The 7 misses were in critical times. The Mavs don't need him to take outside shots but at least get some putbacks...against quality teams(like Calvin Booth). All Bradley has to do is get mad and dunk the ball but he can't do it. I am not a Bradley hater. I am a realist who recognizes that Bradley cannot be physical whatsoever and the NBA is a physical game.

Mavinator
04-11-2001, 06:25 PM
If you watch the games, specifically Bradley, I mean REALLY WATCH to see what goes on in the paint, you see more of his game than the few seconds where he's missing a layup or fumbling a rebound. Bradley has good hands and a soft shooting touch... his problems are all mental. He just gets pushed around in the paint all night long by bigger guys- he really is not built for the NBA, despite his overvalued height- and he NEVER gets the benefit of any calls from the refs, and he gets frustrated. He loses mental concentration. All I ever hear about Bradley is that he doesn't care, that he has no hustle- from what I've seen, this is the exact opposite of the truth. Bradley plays with fire; he is an angry man who wants nothing more than to crush his opponents in the paint, who HATES it when the refs call something on him or when he misses a putback attempt. He hustles for offensive boards, he does what he can to save a ball from going out of bounds. He just often, frankly, lacks the physical tools and the mental strength to get the job done when he's out there- and the constant criticism doesn't help his game. All Bradley lacks is confidence and acceptance of very anti-Bradley officiating. Once these things are within his grasp, he can be as consistently dominant as you've all seen him be on multiple occasions this year... I don't mind people saying Bradley is too weak, or too much of a complainer, or not physical enough. That's all true. But when people say he doesn't care about the game, doesn't want to win or play to his abilities, I'm just incredibly irritated...

TheKid
04-12-2001, 09:10 AM
Come on????? Do you hear yourself. OK, here's a similar analogy. If Gary Trent would just work a little harder and get the benefit of the referees, I think he would be awesome. Or better yet, the only reason Shaq is good is because he's so big and he gets the benefits of the refs. Take away his size and he would not be as good as he is.

What I'm trying to say is you're talking the what if, and we have to talk about reality. I don't need to hear about "IF" Bradley would do this and that, what the situation is, he's doing this and that and it's not good!!

TheKid
04-12-2001, 09:24 AM
I'll say it again, and I HATE to sound like a broken record but DAMN... You're saying all we ask Bradley to do is rebound and block shots. Well what the hell happened lastnight. I thought lastnight he would bounce back and play well since he wasn't playing against anyone close to his height and size. Well WRONG I WAS!!!! However lastnight wasn't solely on him, Howard needs to get his ass on the boards too. 5 rebounds is PATHETIC, there is no reason our shooting guard should be the second leading rebounder in a game.

Also, lastnight our big four gave us 94 points, so it wasn't inability to score lastnight!!!! If Bradley doesn't show up during the playoffs, the Mavericks should just let his ass walk!!!!! We'll work with Booth and Zhi-Zhi. I GUARANTEE they'll give you what Bradley does any day of the week!!!

madape
04-12-2001, 10:37 AM
The point is this: Bradley and Booth will never be able to completly shut down the big centers: ie Duncan, Robinson, and Shaq... but there are few in the league that can. What we ask from them is to rebound, block shots and shut down penetration. Both did their job fairly well against the Spurs. If we are to beat San Antonio, we need our other players to step up the scoring. Our bench was non-existant (with the exception of Booth - who got 30+ minutes), and our big 4 scorers shot less than 40 percent. Personally, I think the whole thing stems on Nash. He hasn't been playing big minues, and when he plays, he looks worn down.

If we are going to get past the first round in the playoffs, don't worry about Bradley.. worry about our bench and our point guard.

madape
04-12-2001, 10:46 AM
Bookit- yeah I watched the game, and yes I saw bradley miss a couple of layups. He does need to finish these with a dunk. But really, how bad off are we if Bradley misses a layup? I mean, he's in position for an easy score and 90% of the time he dunks them. Everyone misses layups/dunks sometimes, even Michael Jordan, so lets not get down on Bradley because of this. Two or three of his misses were on tip put backs on offensive rebounds. I also saw a couple of times when the shot clock would be winding down, and Shawn would hoist up a desparation 18 footer... not exactly the shot you want as time winds down. Point is that Bradley was out there taking shots out of Finley and Dirks hands and throwing up bricks. He was just doing what the Mavs need taking it to the hole.

LAM0015
04-12-2001, 10:53 AM
the mavs don't get enough offensive rebounds..they didn't rebound well enough on the defensive side either...that was the big difference last night anyway you look at it.
yes, marion hurt them..but where they were really hurt was rebounding...dirk and finley are the only two that had decent rebounding games... i'm still waiting for juwan to rebound remotely like a power forward...it sure hasn't happened yet.

TheKid
04-12-2001, 12:07 PM
Well here is one of those rare moments again Lam when I agree with you. That's what pissed me off lastnight more than Bradley. Howard getting only 5 rebounds is ridiculous!!!!

The Crippler
04-12-2001, 12:11 PM
I like lam am waiting for Juwan to quit being a puss on the boards. I'm sick of him not even trying to grab an offensive rebound. Dirk has really improved his defensive rebounding, and now this summer, it is time to for him to learn some tricks for offensive rebounding.

LAM0015
04-12-2001, 01:28 PM
howard played 44 minutes and only had 5 rebounds...from the freaking power forward position.
dirk isn't going to get alot of offensive rebounds this year because of the way the offense is ran...
he does need to crash them a bit more though...but howard is freaking rediculous. he needs to get his ass on the boards...and his ass needs to learn how to play some defense...other than that, he's a good player. shawn bradley needs to put some stick-um on his hands or something.. i don't think i've ever seen a player lose that many rebounds and loose balls like he did last night.
howard turns the ball over too much from the power forward spot..
great job of finley taking the ball to the hole a bit more...nash has dead legs....

LAM0015
04-12-2001, 01:29 PM
eisley is almost officially a spare. he has until the end of the regular season to pick it up, or he will officially be a spare

The Crippler
04-12-2001, 01:48 PM
in my eyes, eisley has already reached that point...scrub! other than that, your analysis in on the $$

Evilmav2
04-12-2001, 02:05 PM
Eisley is not a scrub. Eisley is not a spare. Without his critical contributions throughout most of this season, we might not have a playoff berth. Does anyone remember the beginning of last year when we did not have a single healthy point guard on the roster? Nash, Pack, and Strickland were all hurt, and we were stuck up the river without a paddla... I am much happier having the steady Eisley as our number two point guard (even with his lingering shooting slump)...

Jordan23TX
04-12-2001, 02:16 PM
Let me step to the defense of Howard...when the Mavs got him his talents were inside scoring, consistency, & some rebounding. Are any of you guys suprised that he has maintained his same scoring & rebounding numbers since he came to Dallas??? He's NOT going to be a double-double guy. I mean after he shoots (awkwardly) he is rarely in position to get his own shot,less alone a teammates. Not to mention guarding Cliff Robinson & Rodney Rodgers.... I mean Cliff loves to shoot 3's .. he's always standing outside...which will take his man (Juwan) outside & away from the defensive backboard. Remember I said when there is a good quality SF or PG the Mavs are in trouble. Because these 2 positions provide pressure on the defense.....Marion went off last night & Dirk is our starting SF but I havent read one post about his defense.....

TheKid
04-12-2001, 02:29 PM
Well Dirk can DEFINATELY pick up his defense, there is no doubt there. HOWEVER Howard has played terrible defense the past few games. He was matched up with Rogers part of the night and you know what Rogers had a big night too. A power forward needs to hit the boards both offensive and defensive. That's part of what his job is. I understand he's more offensive minded but he needs to realize that part of his job is to get rebounds.

The Crippler
04-12-2001, 05:05 PM
this "lingering" shooting slump has lasted his entire career...check it. The good shooting we saw earlier this season was the exception, not the norm. Eisley is a SCRUB!!! He's a scared little bitch with the ball in his hands, and a quality pg can't have that attitude. Plus, he can't play D for crap.

Flying Tiger
04-12-2001, 05:17 PM
I agree. His early shooting did spoil us. I was beginning to think that he was a steal. He has really cooled off lately and he does seem to play scared.

Hoopsmeister
04-12-2001, 06:24 PM
He needs to realize that in Dallas the most important part of his job is to get rebounds. When Howard was acquired, everyone from Cuban and Nelson through the press down through the fans was ecstatic about what a 4th option he would make. Too often recently, he's not a 4th option, he's trying to play like a 1st or 2nd option and in the process taking touches from our 'perennial All-star' and our budding superstar.

We don't need Howard to score most nights. We need Howard to be a threat to score and we need him to rebound.

I agree that Dirk needs to improve on defense--but his defense is improving steadily just like every other part of his game. Can he get better? Sure, but I'm not as concerned about Dirk's continuing improvement as I am about Howard's rebounding since Howard is (should be) further in his development than Dirk.

Mavinator
04-12-2001, 06:29 PM
Dirk is a terrible perimeter defender- he doesn't contest shots because his feet are too slow to body up on his man and stop the drive to the basket. But he's getting to be a solid defender in the post- he's stripping the ball all the time now in an almost comical parody of Karl Malone, and since the all-star break he's averaged about one and a half blocks and one and a half steals...

LAM0015
04-13-2001, 08:23 AM
you have to realize that dirk is 7 footer. he's going to have some problems guarding on the perimeter because most small forwards are alot smaller. the mismatch that dirk creates on the offensive end with his height is the same mismatch that is a bit of a liability on the defensive perimeter against small forwards.
he's steadily improving on defense.
and he's rebounding the ball. the same damn thing that we need howard to do. his rebounding numbers are unacceptable. UNACCEPTABLE. i don't care what type of player he was in the past...he doesn't rebound because he doesn't put the necessary effort to go in and mix it up with the big guys. that is unacceptable. rebounding is positioning and effort, which is exactly why howard isn't rebounding because he has lacked both of the above recently. your power forward should have more rebounds than your 2-guard and small forward because the power forward is near the goal more often defensively. HOWARD HAS TO REBOUND. PLEASE.....THE MAVS AREN'T GOING TO WIN PLAYOFF GAMES IF THEIR POWER FORWARD AND CENTERS DON'T REBOUND THE BALL.

TheKid
04-13-2001, 09:00 AM
I have to agree that he seems to be improving in the post. I have noticed he's been getting his share of blocked shots lately and those strips you've been talking about.

All I know is this, Juwan better get his ass on the boards because that's ridiculous that he gets about four or five rebounds a game and he's the power forward. There is no reason Finley should be getting more rebounds than him. He needs to get his ass on the boards more, I don't care about his scoring or what he's trying to do from a scoring place, he needs to freakin BOARD!!!!

LAM0015
04-13-2001, 09:50 AM
there's no excuse for a small forward or a two guard to have more DEFENSIVE rebounds than juwan at the power forward spot
that's one of the things that are killing the mavs..they are letting teams kill them on the offensive boards....juwan and bradley..and even booth at times are not doing their jobs on the glass