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View Full Version : Richard Jefferson traded to Spurs!


slowmo
06-23-2009, 12:40 PM
ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4281291

twistaeffect2004
06-23-2009, 12:42 PM
Good for the Spurs. They get sh!t done.

I don't expect the Mavs to make any real big splash. I hope they do, I just don't think it will happen.

kingofthesmurfsP
06-23-2009, 12:42 PM
yea this makes me mad, dallas better do something

MX425
06-23-2009, 12:44 PM
f word

toby451
06-23-2009, 12:46 PM
So much for that. At least this takes the spurs out of the VC chase.

sefant77
06-23-2009, 12:46 PM
If thats true i will be allready fucking pissed! Thats a lame package that we could have beaten allready with Stack+Williams+#22 and still would have Damp as trade chip.

Maybe our FO is really too dumb for good trades. My dream offseason was Jefferson+Kaman and now Jefferson goes for that to the Spurs...

SG Josh and Terry 24min each
SF Jefferson 34 / Josh 14

Not Me
06-23-2009, 12:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDsPq3dXkvk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiKw1s0iuKU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6L_we71frs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ymxezf7Z9Q

tcat075
06-23-2009, 12:53 PM
All they had to trade for him was Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto?

We could have matched that easily. It was a salary dump for the Bucks.

Damn. I would have loved to grab Jefferson.

sefant77
06-23-2009, 12:55 PM
We had better stuff than the Spurs. Bowen and Oberte are guaranteed 3,9mio, Stack just 2.

Its so freaking amazing...Kidd and Jefferson played for years, they would connect back blind in like 3 training days...

grndmstr_c
06-23-2009, 12:56 PM
Around the NBA forum, much?

Damn solid move for the Spurs. RJ fits pretty much perfectly there.

For those ready to cry about the Mavs, hold your tears back. If anger is what's called for that'll be clear enough eventually. Dallas could've easily beaten this offer if they'd wanted to, so the fact that the Spurs got Jefferson is, as I see it, an unmistakable indication that either:

a) they think (or know) that they can get something better, or

b) they're floating around an a cloud of apathy and incompetence.

Why is this a good thing? Because there will be no doubt about which of these two options is correct by the time Stack's status as an instant expirer...expires. The bar has been set.

Underdog
06-23-2009, 12:58 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/acidkidd/b13.gif

uberfan
06-23-2009, 12:59 PM
Recent history suggest your option B is the answer.

mkat
06-23-2009, 12:59 PM
i'll give it to the spurs. their organization doesn't stay attached to anyone not named parker, duncan, or ginobili. the benefit of having an owner that stays out of the basketball side of business is that he doesn't fall in love with players and won't trade them or move them out. enjoy another year of okay regular season success and an early playoff exit.

sefant77
06-23-2009, 01:01 PM
How u can think you can do better if a player like Jefferson get dumped for nothing than contracts???

That was perfect 50% of our offseason going down the river.

But i see...we will pack Stack and Damp for Shaq....great...or getting Redd, who sucks more than Jefferson.

And im going for b) too.

Nash13
06-23-2009, 01:07 PM
I don't think this is the greatest trade in the world. I know Bowen kinda lost a step, but who do they have to guard Dirk/Howard now? They gave up defense for offense. That's not a Spurs type of move. They're getting desparate.

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 01:13 PM
What bugs me is Cuban keeps saying he wants a "Gasol" type deal.

Well what the hell do you call this?

Nowitzki4President
06-23-2009, 01:14 PM
Why can't we make good trades?

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 01:15 PM
Why can't we make good trades?

Cuban sucks at negotiating. That is why.

Nowitzki4President
06-23-2009, 01:17 PM
Cuban sucks at negotiating. That is why.

To me Cuban seems like the stupid guy from Harold and Kumar 2 that was bald and worked for the CIA. I dont know why, he just gives me that vibe.

Though, does this make us from runners for Carter since the Spurs are outta the picture?

alby
06-23-2009, 01:23 PM
FML

jthig32
06-23-2009, 01:25 PM
Around the NBA forum, much?

Damn solid move for the Spurs. RJ fits pretty much perfectly there.

For those ready to cry about the Mavs, hold your tears back. If anger is what's called for that'll be clear enough eventually. Dallas could've easily beaten this offer if they'd wanted to, so the fact that the Spurs got Jefferson is, as I see it, an unmistakable indication that either:

a) they think (or know) that they can get something better, or

b) they're floating around an a cloud of apathy and incompetence.

Why is this a good thing? Because there will be no doubt about which of these two options is correct by the time Stack's status as an instant expirer...expires. The bar has been set.

Or c) Cuban's claims on the radio last week about only being willing to take on salary for an all star caliber player were truthful, and they've set that bar above the Richard Jefferson level.

And I find the idea that Stack is going to fetch something better than Jefferson very optimistic.

I'm incredibly pessimistic at this point.

jthig32
06-23-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't think this is the greatest trade in the world. I know Bowen kinda lost a step, but who do they have to guard Dirk/Howard now? They gave up defense for offense. That's not a Spurs type of move. They're getting desparate.

Umm...Richard Jefferson is NOT poor defender, and I would argue that he's a better and more flexible defender than Bowen at this point. Bowen is absolutely done.

Besides, there's a 99.9% chance Bowen is cut by Milwaukee at which point the Spurs can just add him back.

DelNegro
06-23-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't think this is the greatest trade in the world. I know Bowen kinda lost a step, but who do they have to guard Dirk/Howard now? They gave up defense for offense. That's not a Spurs type of move. They're getting desparate.

Bowen & Oberto contracts are only partially guaranteed. Milwaukee is going to cut them both to save even more money. Speculation is that Bowen will end up back in SA, perhaps Oberto too.

dalmations202
06-23-2009, 01:28 PM
IMO, this trade was insurance against Ginobili moving, since he is in his last year.

They are retooling, and what they lost wasn't extensive, but they are still a big short. They still need more shooting, and they need health from older players.

I think their defense is weakened as well. I am not sure it is as good a deal as some here have made it out to be. It is a good deal for them, I am just not sure it is that GREAT of a deal.

jthig32
06-23-2009, 01:30 PM
IMO, this trade was insurance against Ginobili moving, since he is in his last year.

They are retooling, and what they lost wasn't extensive, but they are still a big short. They still need more shooting, and they need health from older players.

I think their defense is weakened as well. I am not sure it is as good a deal as some here have made it out to be. It is a good deal for them, I am just not sure it is that GREAT of a deal.

Give me a break. They literally gave up nothing of any value to them.

Flacolaco
06-23-2009, 01:35 PM
I can't post a lot of the words that come to mind here.

This is...at the least...severely disappointing.

alby
06-23-2009, 01:36 PM
Apparently Bowen and Thomas will be released and will rejoin the Spurs when they are eligible. Ultimately the deal comes out to be Oberto for Jefferson. If that doesn't make you just a little upset, then you are clearly wearing some Cuban/Donnie rose colored goggles.

I'm going to say it right now, they are going to pick up Sheed or Gortat or Zaza with the MLE.

Parker/Hill
Ginobili/Mason/Udoka
Jefferson/Finley/Bowen
Sheed/Bonner
Duncan/Thomas

Nowitzki4President
06-23-2009, 01:40 PM
I think we have a consensuses here that we all feel like we have been mentally raped here...


Dammit.

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 01:43 PM
I can't post a lot of the words that come to mind here.

This is...at the least...severely disappointing.

It certainly is a kick in the stomach and took my excitement for the draft to like nil.

And Cleveland will get Shaq.

And the Spurs will get Kaman for Ginobili.

And Mark Cuban will write a blog about it.

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 01:45 PM
Apparently Bowen and Thomas will be released and will rejoin the Spurs when they are eligible. Ultimately the deal comes out to be Oberto for Jefferson. If that doesn't make you just a little upset, then you are clearly wearing some Cuban/Donnie rose colored goggles.

I'm going to say it right now, they are going to pick up Sheed or Gortat or Zaza with the MLE.

Parker/Hill
Ginobili/Mason/Udoka
Jefferson/Finley/Bowen
Sheed/Bonner
Duncan/Thomas

If they get Sheed....

I don't think the Mavs could make any move this summer that could counter that if they get another decent big like Wallace. That defense would be amazing.

purplefrog
06-23-2009, 01:45 PM
I'm just waiting for Cuban to say "There just were no good deals out there" or "We asked if Jefferson was available and they said they wanted Josh Howard" or "We like our team, let's give Stack a three year extension because he brings a toughness that we desperately need".

AxdemxO
06-23-2009, 01:45 PM
wow...

Parker
Gino
Jeff
Duncan
??

quietsavant
06-23-2009, 01:46 PM
moderators, i know you will fix this but for one time i will speak my mind:

FCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

DelNegro
06-23-2009, 01:47 PM
IMO, this trade was insurance against Ginobili moving, since he is in his last year.

They are retooling, and what they lost wasn't extensive, but they are still a big short. They still need more shooting, and they need health from older players.

I think their defense is weakened as well. I am not sure it is as good a deal as some here have made it out to be. It is a good deal for them, I am just not sure it is that GREAT of a deal.

I'd say it's more insurance against Ginobili getting hurt again. You're right that the Spurs still need a big. This deal in and of itself is great, but if they don't fill their other gaping hole for a guy to put next to Duncan then it doesn't matter. The Spurs had two glaring needs to address this offseason and they've taken care of one.

I'm not worried about the Spurs defense. Their D wasn't Spurs caliber this year anyways. Even if there is a dropoff it's going to be more than offset by what Jefferson brings offensively.

Robillion
06-23-2009, 01:48 PM
What are yall talking about when you say that it is not that great of a deal!? Spurs GOT that "Gasol" type trade! Nothing different. They'll likely get back some of the players in return. Pending any other massive team changers like this one, I see the Spurs now as the team to beat with that trade, even with the Lakers considering they may lose a piece of their successes (Odom or Ariza).

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm just waiting for Cuban to say "There just were no good deals out there" or "We asked if Jefferson was available and they said they wanted Josh Howard" or "We like our team, let's give Stack a three year extension because he brings a toughness that we desperately need".

Yeah I know. Cuban is going to come up with some astronomically bs excuse about how Milwauke's GM wasn't cooperating or something.

Yeah Cuban, cuzzz no one outside of Dallas seems likes you. And they know you'll be dumb enough to give up two first round picks.

dalmations202
06-23-2009, 01:55 PM
I'd say it's more insurance against Ginobili getting hurt again. You're right that the Spurs still need a big. This deal in and of itself is great, but if they don't fill their other gaping hole for a guy to put next to Duncan then it doesn't matter. The Spurs had two glaring needs to address this offseason and they've taken care of one.

I'm not worried about the Spurs defense. Their D wasn't Spurs caliber this year anyways. Even if there is a dropoff it's going to be more than offset by what Jefferson brings offensively.

I agree all the way, except that the dropoff may be larger than expected.

RJ isn't known for defense.
Fin isn't known for defense.
Ginobili is known as a help defender.
Parker isn't known for his defense.

Put Sheed, Camby, Chandler, Kaman, etc beside Duncan though, and IMO, they are championship caliber again.

SA has one chip left needed, and then to remain injury free.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 01:56 PM
Here's the truth of the matter:

The world champions, Los Angeles Lakers, are probably quivering at the knees at this Spurs' deal. That's all you need to know. They are just in a different class right now, Dallas is not up there.

Dirkenstien
06-23-2009, 01:57 PM
sometimes you just have to laugh out loud.

But I can't even do that right now. Instead of doing this deal we let a division rival get him and allow that team to get back to championship level talent-wise.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 02:02 PM
If this is not the "Gasol type deal" Cuban referred to earlier this summer, I don't know what is.

Richard Jefferson would have been the perfect complimentary player to Dirk and Howard.

Kidd/Barea
Howard/Terry
Jefferson/Wright
Dirk
Damp

in addition to our MLE to work with as well.

the ONLY way this can be justified is that Dallas already has a bigger deal ready to be signed on draft night.

Nowitzki4President
06-23-2009, 02:06 PM
the ONLY way this can be justified is that Dallas already has a bigger deal ready to be signed on draft night.

And the chances of that? I don't know man, I think our FO was just sleeping while this deal was made with the Spurs. I don't have any faith that there is any justifiable reason we didn't make this deal.

Dirkenstien
06-23-2009, 02:08 PM
Yeah I won't be holding my breath. This management is too damn stagnant. Not enough pressure on them to perform or hit the highway.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 02:08 PM
I know how you feel, trust me. But if there's a chance, I'm going to try to be as optimistic as I can.

DevinHarriswillstart
06-23-2009, 02:10 PM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/starscreamdisapp.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/starscreamdisapp.jpg)

littlelibo
06-23-2009, 02:13 PM
While admitting that this makes me sick, what were we supposed to do? They had 2 stackhouse type contracts to offer. We only had one.

mavs777
06-23-2009, 02:14 PM
thank god

Dirkenstien
06-23-2009, 02:16 PM
While admitting that this makes me sick, what were we supposed to do? They had 2 stackhouse type contracts to offer. We only had one.

Actually I believe they could have saved approximately $3 million more by trading with us. We had a better package to offer.

DelNegro
06-23-2009, 02:22 PM
I agree all the way, except that the dropoff may be larger than expected.

RJ isn't known for defense.
Fin isn't known for defense.
Ginobili is known as a help defender.
Parker isn't known for his defense.

Put Sheed, Camby, Chandler, Kaman, etc beside Duncan though, and IMO, they are championship caliber again.

SA has one chip left needed, and then to remain injury free.

I think it's a safe bet the Spurs are now exploring what kind of PF/C type they could get for a package built around Roger Mason and whatever spare parts they have left.

Going to be interesting to see what happens with Finley. He's got a player option, but with RJ there and rumors about Bowen coming back then it sure looks to me like there's not going to be a whole lot of minutes for him. I'm not sure he's coming back.

MavsFanFinley
06-23-2009, 02:32 PM
The timing of the trade seems strange. Almost like they got this deal done so they could move on to the next one involving a big man. Maybe a draft day trade involving some package of Mason, Bonner, Hill, Finley (if he picks his option up)??

Stranger
06-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Ouch. Jefferson would have been perfect for us. Can't believe we let this slip past.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
06-23-2009, 02:37 PM
There is no bigger deal headed our way, there never is.

TomThaMavsFan
06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Unbelievable, the mavs stand stagnant while another team in their division gets stronger, sucks that Cuban is willing to take on bad contracts, yet they still can't get a deal done. WOW can't wait for another year of josh/dirk/jet fighting for the 8th seed in the playoffs

uberfan
06-23-2009, 02:43 PM
Watch the Spurs sign Rasheed with the MLE.

DelNegro
06-23-2009, 02:44 PM
The timing of the trade seems strange. Almost like they got this deal done so they could move on to the next one involving a big man. Maybe a draft day trade involving some package of Mason, Bonner, Hill, Finley (if he picks his option up)??

The rush to get the deal done is Oberto. His contract is only partially guaranteed if he's cut by July 1st.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 02:54 PM
^ Bingo

Hence, Dallas should be rushing to deal Stackhouse... although I guess I just don't feel that urgency from our braintrust.

Robillion
06-23-2009, 02:55 PM
wait, so we have till July 1st to trade Stackhouse?

uberfan
06-23-2009, 03:01 PM
I think the window is more like from July 1 to August something.

On July 1 his contract value increases a bit over the 2008-2009 season.

Then the August date is when the $2 million buy out expires.

Could be off on the August date.

DelNegro
06-23-2009, 03:02 PM
wait, so we have till July 1st to trade Stackhouse?

Depends on what dates are written in to Stack's deal as to when the salary guarantees kick in. July 1st is the date written into Oberto's contract.

Edit: Per shamsports.com, stack's deal is $2 mil guaranteed until August 10th, and then bumps to $3.625 mil.

Robillion
06-23-2009, 03:09 PM
Depends on what dates are written in to Stack's deal as to when the salary guarantees kick in. July 1st is the date written into Oberto's contract.

Edit: Per shamsports.com, stack's deal is $2 mil guaranteed until August 10th, and then bumps to $3.625 mil.

Well my birthday is August 7th, but I would be mad if we wait till then. Unless, of course, we land an "All-Star" with his contract on my birthday.

ty
06-23-2009, 03:14 PM
What the hell are you doing Donnie?

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
06-23-2009, 03:19 PM
"Donnie has been my biggest supporter from day one," said six-time NBA All-Star and 2007 MVP Dirk Nowitzki. "He works harder than any coach or president in the NBA. He thinks about basketball 24 hours a day."

Really? 24 hours a day? What does he think about? How round the ball is?

Underdog
06-23-2009, 03:28 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/acidkidd/2433329.jpg

quietsavant
06-23-2009, 03:39 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/acidkidd/2433329.jpg

:D

Dtownsfinest
06-23-2009, 03:44 PM
Umm...Richard Jefferson is NOT poor defender, and I would argue that he's a better and more flexible defender than Bowen at this point. Bowen is absolutely done.

Besides, there's a 99.9% chance Bowen is cut by Milwaukee at which point the Spurs can just add him back.

Yea I was going to say the same exact thing. At this point in their careers i'd probably say Jefferson is just as good of a defender as Bowen is. He showed splashes in the post season but you FAIL when you start making trades worrying about defending the next team's superstar. Dirk is going to get his. He got his on Bowen and would continue to do so. Great trade for the Spurs. I'm guessing salary dump for the Bucks. Both teams got what they wanted. I didn't think the Spurs would take on this much salary. Especially in this economy.

Dtownsfinest
06-23-2009, 03:48 PM
Well can we agree that the Spurs getting this deal done means there's no way in hell the Mavs stand pat?

Dirkenstien
06-23-2009, 03:58 PM
What the hell are you doing Donnie?

At the time the Spurs management was sealing the deal on this trade Donnie was doing an interview with 103.3 about how he wants to make a trade like this.

Sorry, but he's an idiot.

ty
06-23-2009, 04:12 PM
Well can we agree that the Spurs getting this deal done means there's no way in hell the Mavs stand pat?

Can we?

mac222b
06-23-2009, 04:18 PM
No way we get VC for just an expiring contract. From Thorn? Therefore even if we land VC it won't be good value. Stack for Kaman or Camby? We'd better hit a home run with the MLE then. If we passed on this for the #5 pick in the draft or ANY pick in the draft for that matter then i'll just stop watching. It's getting more and more depressing being a Mavs fan. Every summer...

Dtownsfinest
06-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Can we?

I just don't see how the front office can come away from this offseason standing pat. How can they sell this to the fans? I think the whole "we like our team" motto has worn off.

slowmo
06-23-2009, 04:36 PM
I would bet Donnie and Cubes were so engrossed in finding another "Josh" at the 22nd pick that the Spurs ran right past them and one-uped them! I can just see Pop laughing his ass off in SA! If they keep the team intact again this summer I will definately stop watching them! Too much stress involved in this team.

monty55555
06-23-2009, 04:47 PM
What a shame. I've been hoping that RJ would be traded to the Mavs. Not only does he go to a division rival, he gets traded for Bowen, Oberto and Thomas. I'm sure the Mavs could have come up with a better offer, right? :(

I could not believe it when I first read it. Damn.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 05:18 PM
At the time the Spurs management was sealing the deal on this trade Donnie was doing an interview with 103.3 about how he wants to make a trade like this.

Sorry, but he's an idiot.
I'm as mad as anyone else, but Donnie's interview on 103.3 actually occurred earlier in the morning but was not broadcasted until the Michael Irvin show (during the RJ trade).

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 05:20 PM
What a shame. I've been hoping that RJ would be traded to the Mavs. Not only does he go to a division rival, he gets traded for Bowen, Oberto and Thomas. I'm sure the Mavs could have come up with a better offer, right? :(

I could not believe it when I first read it. Damn.
Really, it was just for Oberto. Bowen and Thomas will be released and will probably rejoin the Spurs.

MaVs 41 BaLler
06-23-2009, 05:22 PM
wtf rj for a bunch of floppers

screw you bucks

Rick41
06-23-2009, 05:58 PM
Oh god, FML.

Underdog
06-23-2009, 06:31 PM
Did anyone notice how 27 other front offices failed this offseason because they didn't sign Richard Jefferson?


(although I would never expect Dallas sports fans to stop feeling entitled...)

mac222b
06-23-2009, 06:35 PM
Did anyone notice how 27 other front offices failed this offseason because they didn't sign Richard Jefferson?


(although I would never expect Dallas sports fans to stop feeling entitled...)

Donnie, is that you?

Underdog
06-23-2009, 06:39 PM
Donnie, is that you?

The crying 4-year-old next door, is that you?


(classic comeback - consider yourself retro-burned...)

Thomas86
06-23-2009, 06:40 PM
If we where to get Gerald Wallace then nobody would even care about Jefferson, It just hurts because the Spurs gave up JUNK to get Jefferson and Bowen and the other guys might resign with the Spurs making them even deep, I swer if the Spurs get Rasheed Wallace and we still don't do anything I'm done.

mac222b
06-23-2009, 06:51 PM
The crying 4-year-old next door, is that you?


(classic comeback - consider yourself retro-burned...)

Sorry to be so simplistic and sarcastic. What i meant to say was the Spurs are our rivals making this, like Artest going to the Rockets for nada last summer, particularly hard to swallow. When OKC drafts Rubio it will become even more depressing. Not all 27 teams want,need,can afford Jefferson. But he's just the kind of player We were looking for- relatively young, athletic, attacks the rim. If there are people out there who haven't lost faith in the Mavs leadership then they don't really follow the sport. That Presti, Morey and Pop are 3 of the shrewdest minds in the NBA and all reside in close proximity makes our "braintrust" seem all the more... underwhelming is a nice way of putting it.

quietsavant
06-23-2009, 07:01 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60013/20090623/detroit_trades_amir_johnson_to_bucks/

Detroit trades Amir Johnson to Bucks For Oberto......................where are you donnnnnnnnieeeeeee????????????????????? let go of your c-ck for a sec and pick up the phone

Underdog
06-23-2009, 07:15 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60013/20090623/detroit_trades_amir_johnson_to_bucks/

Detroit trades Amir Johnson to Bucks For Oberto......................where are you donnnnnnnnieeeeeee????????????????????? let go of your c-ck for a sec and pick up the phone

I don't understand why you're getting bent out of shape over these 2 spares - neither of them would help the Mavs...

quietsavant
06-23-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't understand why you're getting bent out of shape over these 2 spares - neither of them would help the Mavs...

oh im not mad about the participants in this trade. Im just pissed that our GM and team is being stagnant while everyone is doing some kind of move

Underdog
06-23-2009, 07:28 PM
oh im not mad about the participants in this trade. Im just pissed that our GM and team is being stagnant while everyone is doing some kind of move

There's only been 3-4 moves in the whole league so far...

BGMaverick9
06-23-2009, 07:41 PM
There's only been 3-4 moves in the whole league so far...

And we haven't been in ANY of them.

Checkmate.

;)

Zki41
06-23-2009, 09:51 PM
This instantly puts the Spurs at the top of the Southwest division without having to make another move. They are probably going to try to grab a real center (as opposed to Matt Bonner) as well. Spurs Roster is pretty scary ... Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Jefferson/Mason - all guys who can go off for 20 points on any given night.

TheMaverick
06-23-2009, 10:36 PM
Sorry to be so simplistic and sarcastic. What i meant to say was the Spurs are our rivals making this, like Artest going to the Rockets for nada last summer, particularly hard to swallow. When OKC drafts Rubio it will become even more depressing. Not all 27 teams want,need,can afford Jefferson. But he's just the kind of player We were looking for- relatively young, athletic, attacks the rim. If there are people out there who haven't lost faith in the Mavs leadership then they don't really follow the sport. That Presti, Morey and Pop are 3 of the shrewdest minds in the NBA and all reside in close proximity makes our "braintrust" seem all the more... underwhelming is a nice way of putting it.
you hit the nail on the coffin. I don't think anyone is going to mistake Cuban to be in their class. I guess the city of Dallas and the Mavericks' fans around the world are getting hit in the mouth with this fact the last couple of years.

MavsFanFinley
06-24-2009, 12:07 AM
Just watched RC Bufords press conference on the trade.

He said that Holt and Pop have given him the green light to load up the roster. He didn't seem concerned about the LT at all. They won't be afraid to use the MLE either. IMO, sounds like they're going for it now while the window is still open another year or two.

I don't know how many times he mentioned that they're excited about draft day. And that similiar oppoturnities are there for them. It doesn't mean they'll happen but he was just a little too excited about the draft for my liking. Makes me think they have something lined up already.

He could be playing it safe but it doesn't sound like Bowen or Oberto will be back even if they are waived. Mentioned something about Jefferson bringing in a new era.

Flacolaco
06-24-2009, 12:11 AM
"you hit the nail on the coffin"

Genius.

Dark Sun
06-24-2009, 12:31 AM
*sigh*
why can't we do a deal like that? When I did read the topic I immediately had a bad feeling in my stomach. Just so sad....

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 12:47 AM
Did anyone notice how 27 other front offices failed this offseason because they didn't sign Richard Jefferson?


(although I would never expect Dallas sports fans to stop feeling entitled...)

Look at those other 27 front offices and see if they've made any solid moves these past 2 or 3 offseasons. This isn't something new for Mavs fans. It seems like there's trades every offseason where we wonder "WTF". Especially deals where the Mavs could've offered a lot more than those teams have given up. Its not about entitlement. Not for me anyway. Its just at times you get the sense that the front office doesn't even try because "they like their team". Once again another year is passing and everyone around the Mavs is getting better. Some teams are just getting better because their getting older like the Jazz, Blazers, OKC and New Orleans.

There's plenty of time for the Mavs to make a deal but I think the biggest fear for some is that the Mavs front office may be overvaluing some of the talent on this team.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 01:03 AM
Just watched RC Bufords press conference on the trade.

He said that Holt and Pop have given him the green light to load up the roster. He didn't seem concerned about the LT at all. They won't be afraid to use the MLE either. IMO, sounds like they're going for it now while the window is still open another year or two.

I don't know how many times he mentioned that they're excited about draft day. And that similiar oppoturnities are there for them. It doesn't mean they'll happen but he was just a little too excited about the draft for my liking. Makes me think they have something lined up already.

He could be playing it safe but it doesn't sound like Bowen or Oberto will be back even if they are waived. Mentioned something about Jefferson bringing in a new era.

I can't see Bowen being gone. Especially if waived. Could be right. I wonder what's the word on Ginobilli? With Mason and Jefferson that definately makes him expendable. Especially if there's some youth out there.

mac222b
06-24-2009, 01:08 AM
Look at those other 27 front offices and see if they've made any solid moves these past 2 or 3 offseasons. This isn't something new for Mavs fans. It seems like there's trades every offseason where we wonder "WTF". Especially deals where the Mavs could've offered a lot more than those teams have given up. Its not about entitlement. Not for me anyway. Its just at times you get the sense that the front office doesn't even try because "they like their team". Once again another year is passing and everyone around the Mavs is getting better. Some teams are just getting better because their getting older like the Jazz, Blazers, OKC and New Orleans.

There's plenty of time for the Mavs to make a deal but I think the biggest fear for some is that the Mavs front office may be overvaluing some of the talent on this team.

Fear that they overvalue the talent and that they don't really plan to spend any more money or do what it takes to win. Or that they're holding out for the magical 2010. It's becoming evident that some of the confusion regarding the direction/style of the franchise wasn't all Avery. I'm confused just thinking about it all.There have been consecutive summers of essentially standing pat(buckner,eddie jones)followed by the panic trade for Kidd. And then again last summer nothing except for a long overdue coaching change. Oh and Diop. Apathy,apathy, panic,apathy mixed with incompetence. Spurs trade will probably lead to a panic trade for Shaq in which we give up too much. And a strange MLE signing.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 02:00 AM
Fear that they overvalue the talent and that they don't really plan to spend any more money or do what it takes to win. Or that they're holding out for the magical 2010. It's becoming evident that some of the confusion regarding the direction/style of the franchise wasn't all Avery. I'm confused just thinking about it all.There have been consecutive summers of essentially standing pat(buckner,eddie jones)followed by the panic trade for Kidd. And then again last summer nothing except for a long overdue coaching change. Oh and Diop. Apathy,apathy, panic,apathy mixed with incompetence. Spurs trade will probably lead to a panic trade for Shaq in which we give up too much. And a strange MLE signing.

How much is too much for Shaq? Because at this point I would think that the Mavs wouldn't be offering anything more than expiring contracts for him. If Josh Howard is involved i'll be livid. But that's my biggest fear. The Mavs see what teams around them in the West are doing and pull another Jason Kidd move out of panic.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 03:02 AM
Good god, what a bunch of whiny knee-jerkers we have on this board. RJ would not have been a great fit here. Yeah, it really sucks that the Spurs got him, but please people, please stop bitching about how our whole offseason just went out the window.

darkwitzki
06-24-2009, 03:18 AM
Patience is a virtue - Love, your everdearest GM, Donnie

Nash13
06-24-2009, 03:33 AM
Thank you Spiral. Seriously enough is enough. I mean, don't you people ever get tired of complaining about trades and going on about how Cuban sucks? I've been on this board for nearly 7 years. And while i respect the Spurs more than any other team not Dallas, i've seen this happen too many times. Literally EVERYTIME the Spurs do anything, you people act like it's the end of the world. "Oh, the Spurs get Oberto, they're going to groom him to stop Dirk." "Oh, the Spurs won the bidding war for Michael Finley, now we're going to pay for Finley to kill us in the playoffs." "Oh, the Spurs got Nick Van Exel. Just what they need another clutch player to kill us." "Oh, the Spurs just traded for Matt Bonner. They don't need Horry anymore. They're going to kill us." It's upsetting how far this board can have it's nose up the Spurs.

I don't feel they've ever done a single move that puts them over the top. I mean, we're talking about Richard Jefferson. The guy puts up good but not great numbers on average to below average teams. It's not like we're talking about Pau Gasol. On paper this sounds like a good deal, but on paper having Walker/Jamison made us look better. This is a classic Houston Rockets trade.

DevinHarriswillstart
06-24-2009, 03:41 AM
Patience is a virtue - Love, your everdearest GM, Donnie

Yeah...we've been patient for the past three summers of doing squat.

Oh but Donnie is such a nice guy to get along with and such a jokster when interviewed.

I honestly don't think these are knee-jerk reactions either. Most of the rationals on here have been pretty tired of management's doing for quite a while now. It isn't JUST the RJ deal. It's the same lame excuse after lame excuse.

I was humble and got over the Harris trade. I'm not going to be humble about this. The FO can suck it until they stop acting like gutless monkeys and do their jobs.

Nash13
06-24-2009, 03:59 AM
Without talking in circles, the front office has had reasons for some moves they made. The season before kidd, we did win 67 games. The season before that, we did go to the finals. Yeah, a trade could have sparked the team this year. But in all honesty, i think any trade we make that's not a Gasol-type deal would be too much of a chance. I don't know if there's a trade to be had that would put THIS team over the top. That's why Dallas and they're patient fans would probably be better off loading up for 2010. For the last 9 seasons, this team has pulled off steals or pulled off trades where it's clear we got the better part of the deal, but it hasn't payed off.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 06:04 AM
If this is not the "Gasol type deal" Cuban referred to earlier this summer, I don't know what is.

For everyone in this thread calling this a "Gasol-type" deal for the Spurs, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK! Gasol is a borderline franchise player. He was the unquestioned best player on a 50-win team and carried his team to several playoff appearances in the Western Conference. RJ is a nice player but he doesn't even come close to being a guy you can build a playoff team around.

Stackhouse for Paul Pierce, THAT would be a "Gasol-type" deal. This is a damn good move for the Spurs but it doesn't even begin to compare the ridiculousness of the steal that was the Gasol trade.

Underdog
06-24-2009, 07:43 AM
Good god, what a bunch of whiny knee-jerkers we have on this board. RJ would not have been a great fit here. Yeah, it really sucks that the Spurs got him, but please people, please stop bitching about how our whole offseason just went out the window.

+rep...

DelNegro
06-24-2009, 07:56 AM
I can't see Bowen being gone. Especially if waived. Could be right. I wonder what's the word on Ginobilli? With Mason and Jefferson that definately makes him expendable. Especially if there's some youth out there.

I'd be shocked if Bowen isn't on the Spurs next year. But the Spurs don't want to fall into the Stackhouse trap so they're putting on a show so that no one thinks anything was pre-arranged.

Allegedly Ginobili is going to be fine. But, you never know. Unless someone comes along and offers the Spurs a PF/C who's damn near all-star caliber I can't see the Spurs moving him. They won't move him just to get some youth on the team. A 32 year old Manu isn't going to land you a young player you can build a franchise around, and without that franchise guy it all falls apart when Duncan can't carry them anymore anyways. So what's the point? The Spurs are looking at a 3 year window and they'll worry about rebuilding then.

jthig32
06-24-2009, 08:08 AM
I definitely agree that people are nuts to compare the Jefferson deal to the Gasol deal.

However, downplaying the significance of the Jefferson deal and how it effects us is very naive, in my opinion.

The Bucks and the Wizards were two teams that people thought might be willing to shed salary and give away a good player. Both of those teams are now off the market. And Richard Jefferson makes the Spurs MUCH, MUCH better. So a direct rival has just gotten significantly better.

Also, maybe I'm in the minority but I'd have been perfectly happy to have the Stackhouse chip cashed in for Jefferson, used the MLE on a contributor, re-signed Bass and Kidd and gone to work next season with the knowledge that Josh is probably going to play out of his mind and that Damp is a fantastic trade chip over the next year+.

I have absolutely no expectation that Stack is going to net a better player than Jefferson, and based on Mark's recent comments and the fact that I haven't heard of the Mavs even SNIFFING this Jefferson deal has me very, very concerned that we're about to experience the biggest let down of an offseason in recent history.

So call me a whiner if you want. I am absolutely NOT the guy that over reacts to ever little trade that the Spurs or anyone else does. I'm usually the person on the other side explaining why it wasn't a good fit for the Mavs. But I have a very bad feeling about this offseason right now.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 08:23 AM
I definitely agree that people are nuts to compare the Jefferson deal to the Gasol deal.

However, downplaying the significance of the Jefferson deal and how it effects us is very naive, in my opinion.

The Bucks and the Wizards were two teams that people thought might be willing to shed salary and give away a good player. Both of those teams are now off the market. And Richard Jefferson makes the Spurs MUCH, MUCH better. So a direct rival has just gotten significantly better.

Also, maybe I'm in the minority but I'd have been perfectly happy to have the Stackhouse chip cashed in for Jefferson, used the MLE on a contributor, re-signed Bass and Kidd and gone to work next season with the knowledge that Josh is probably going to play out of his mind and that Damp is a fantastic trade chip over the next year+.

I have absolutely no expectation that Stack is going to net a better player than Jefferson, and based on Mark's recent comments and the fact that I haven't heard of the Mavs even SNIFFING this Jefferson deal has me very, very concerned that we're about to experience the biggest let down of an offseason in recent history.

So call me a whiner if you want. I am absolutely NOT the guy that over reacts to ever little trade that the Spurs or anyone else does. I'm usually the person on the other side explaining why it wasn't a good fit for the Mavs. But I have a very bad feeling about this offseason right now.

The offseason just started. I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't see why everyone is all pissed off at the Mavs FO over this deal, as if RJ was the guy we absolutely needed. Frankly, of all the names that have been tossed around lately, RJ was pretty close to the bottom of that last in terms of how well he would fit. We need a 2, and RJ just isn't a 2 anymore than J-Ho is.

Now it does SUCK that the Spurs got him, for sure. And I agree, they did just get a lot better. However, I'm not in the same boat about how the summer's going to turn out.

Honestly, I'll be a bit surprised if we don't get VC this summer. It's just too obvious not to get done. NJ is eager to move him, he clearly fits all of the Mavs' needs, and I don't think there are any other teams willing to take his contract. It just makes sense. Way more than RJ.

Robillion
06-24-2009, 08:24 AM
Im right there with you jthig on this one.

.. I hope the Clips are motivated to do something is all I gotta say

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 08:34 AM
The Wizards may have been ideal trading partners from a salary perspective, but in terms of players we could get back, I don't think anyone that was traded in these deals could've helped us tremendously.

dalger
06-24-2009, 08:47 AM
I definitely agree that people are nuts to compare the Jefferson deal to the Gasol deal.

However, downplaying the significance of the Jefferson deal and how it effects us is very naive, in my opinion.

The Bucks and the Wizards were two teams that people thought might be willing to shed salary and give away a good player. Both of those teams are now off the market. And Richard Jefferson makes the Spurs MUCH, MUCH better. So a direct rival has just gotten significantly better.

Also, maybe I'm in the minority but I'd have been perfectly happy to have the Stackhouse chip cashed in for Jefferson, used the MLE on a contributor, re-signed Bass and Kidd and gone to work next season with the knowledge that Josh is probably going to play out of his mind and that Damp is a fantastic trade chip over the next year+.

I have absolutely no expectation that Stack is going to net a better player than Jefferson, and based on Mark's recent comments and the fact that I haven't heard of the Mavs even SNIFFING this Jefferson deal has me very, very concerned that we're about to experience the biggest let down of an offseason in recent history.

So call me a whiner if you want. I am absolutely NOT the guy that over reacts to ever little trade that the Spurs or anyone else does. I'm usually the person on the other side explaining why it wasn't a good fit for the Mavs. But I have a very bad feeling about this offseason right now.

I actually called it a "Gasol-like deal" (no offense... ;) ), yet I didn't mean to compare Jefferson to Gasol or vice versa. However, it's one of those deals where one rival gets significantly better without giving up anything of value. In that sense it could be considered an acquisition that is close to what the Lakers did last year. I could be wrong, but this might be the kind of trade where you look back six months later and think, "Wow, I wish we could have done something like that".

I can understand why you, Thespiralgoeson, would be frustrated at some board members for being a little too fatalistic. Personally, I don't have any interest in judging our trade season before it even started either.

With that said, jthig32 pointed out the reasons why this deal presents a lot of question marks as it relates to our men in charge. Perhaps they'll be able to add other good players and make this a successful offseason. If they didn't, the Jefferson deal would be ideal to base future FO criticism on.

Stack for Jefferson would have been perfectly fine with me. Not only because of his qualities, but also because of the negative effect on the Spurs, one of our toughest opponents.

In addition, we could have (probably successfully) offered Josh for Kaman and have a lineup of Kaman/Dirk/Jefferson/Wright/Kidd. Damp and the MLE would still be there to get two nice contributors.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 08:57 AM
If the summer passes and we get nothing done, then I'll be just as pissed as everyone else, but right now, other than the Spurs getting better, I just don't care. To me RJ is very "meh." Like I said, of the names that have been tossed around so far, RJ was pretty much at the bottom of that list for me.


In addition, we could have (probably successfully) offered Josh for Kaman and have a lineup of Kaman/Dirk/Jefferson/Wright/Kidd. Damp and the MLE would still be there to get two nice contributors.

If that were our lineup , I would be pissed. And indeed I will be pissed if Wright is our starting 2 next year.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:00 AM
double post*

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:06 AM
I'd be shocked if Bowen isn't on the Spurs next year. But the Spurs don't want to fall into the Stackhouse trap so they're putting on a show so that no one thinks anything was pre-arranged.

Allegedly Ginobili is going to be fine. But, you never know. Unless someone comes along and offers the Spurs a PF/C who's damn near all-star caliber I can't see the Spurs moving him. They won't move him just to get some youth on the team. A 32 year old Manu isn't going to land you a young player you can build a franchise around, and without that franchise guy it all falls apart when Duncan can't carry them anymore anyways. So what's the point? The Spurs are looking at a 3 year window and they'll worry about rebuilding then.


I don't trade Ginobilli just for anyone but I think with age and injuries unless he has a all star caliber year which is possible i'd atleast look at some trades out there. His contract is about to expire correct? That's an attractive piece for a team who wants to shed salary yet not tank the season. But i'd probably go to war with the team I have now if i'm the Spurs. They're a big away from being favorites.

Without talking in circles, the front office has had reasons for some moves they made. The season before kidd, we did win 67 games. The season before that, we did go to the finals. Yeah, a trade could have sparked the team this year. But in all honesty, i think any trade we make that's not a Gasol-type deal would be too much of a chance. I don't know if there's a trade to be had that would put THIS team over the top. That's why Dallas and they're patient fans would probably be better off loading up for 2010. For the last 9 seasons, this team has pulled off steals or pulled off trades where it's clear we got the better part of the deal, but it hasn't payed off.

I'm so sick of hearing about 2010. The only teams worried about 2010 are teams who suck. And no big name free agent is leaving millions on the table to join another team. None. Maybe Chris Bosh and you're even seeing stories about him resigning with the Raptors. This is the perfect time for the Mavs to become buyers because as you can see teams are giving away solid contributors for next to nothing.

Good god, what a bunch of whiny knee-jerkers we have on this board. RJ would not have been a great fit here. Yeah, it really sucks that the Spurs got him, but please people, please stop bitching about how our whole offseason just went out the window.

The Mavs couldn't of used him? Seriously? The Mavs can't use a solid defender who shoots 40% from 3 and attacks the basket? Jefferson on this team would automatically be the second fiddle to Dirk and a legit one. I'm more upset of the potential do nothing off season that's upon us than I am this deal but Jefferson definitely could have helped.


Thank you Spiral. Seriously enough is enough. I mean, don't you people ever get tired of complaining about trades and going on about how Cuban sucks? I've been on this board for nearly 7 years. And while i respect the Spurs more than any other team not Dallas, i've seen this happen too many times. Literally EVERYTIME the Spurs do anything, you people act like it's the end of the world. "Oh, the Spurs get Oberto, they're going to groom him to stop Dirk." "Oh, the Spurs won the bidding war for Michael Finley, now we're going to pay for Finley to kill us in the playoffs." "Oh, the Spurs got Nick Van Exel. Just what they need another clutch player to kill us." "Oh, the Spurs just traded for Matt Bonner. They don't need Horry anymore. They're going to kill us." It's upsetting how far this board can have it's nose up the Spurs.

I don't feel they've ever done a single move that puts them over the top. I mean, we're talking about Richard Jefferson. The guy puts up good but not great numbers on average to below average teams. It's not like we're talking about Pau Gasol. On paper this sounds like a good deal, but on paper having Walker/Jamison made us look better. This is a classic Houston Rockets trade.

Wasn't Jefferson the only offensive option for the Bucks? Maybe Sessions? Doesn't that mean with 3 or 4 other options that would make him even BETTER? And i'm not really sure what you mean about a Rockets trade. They traded for Drexler years ago and got a championship. They grabbed Artest for Bobby Jackson and had it not been for a T-Mac and Yao Ming injury who knows what the limit was for that team. I sure as hell give their front office a lot more credit than I give the Mavs.

As far as the Walker and Jamison trades it didn't make us look better on paper when we were starting Dirk and Antoine Walker at the 5 spot. Jamison filled a need. Walker? He added some. I don't see how the Jefferson trade compares.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:11 AM
The Mavs couldn't of used him? Seriously? The Mavs can't use a solid defender who shoots 40% from 3 and attacks the basket? Jefferson on this team would automatically be the second fiddle to Dirk and a legit one. I'm more upset of the potential do nothing off season that's upon us than I am this deal but Jefferson definitely could have helped.

I did not say the Mavs couldn't use him. I just don't think they could use him as much as some other players. Jefferson is basically the same player as Howard. And please don't use his 3 pt shooting as a selling point. His shot is very inconsistent.

dalger
06-24-2009, 09:15 AM
If that were our lineup , I would be pissed. And indeed I will be pissed if Wright is our starting 2 next year.

You don't think that having Kaman/Jefferson is better than having Damp/Josh? Obviously, the FO would still use the MLE to get rid of Wright as our starting SG, or, even better, use Damp's contract now or later to land a very good SG. The aforementioned lineup would be the status quo before any further trades.

The idea behind it is that a lineup of Kaman/Dirk/RJ/Wright/Kidd should have been possible and could have been improved with Damp's contract and the MLE.

It seems that we won't get Kaman or any other center of that calibre for free. As far as shooting guards are concerned, VC would be great. BUT: We would possibly (or even probably) have to give up Josh and Stack to get him. Then we would have to make perfect use of Damp and the MLE to get a center AND a starting small forward.

Kaman/Dirk/RJ/Wright/Kidd + Damp's contract + MLE looks better to me than ?/Dirk/?/VC/Kidd + Damp's contract + MLE.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:17 AM
If the summer passes and we get nothing done, then I'll be just as pissed as everyone else, but right now, other than the Spurs getting better, I just don't care. To me RJ is very "meh." Like I said, of the names that have been tossed around so far, RJ was pretty much at the bottom of that list for me.



If that were our lineup , I would be pissed. And indeed I will be pissed if Wright is our starting 2 next year.

Why would you be pissed? You can get a 2 guard in here for the mid-level. I don't have faith in the Mavs using their mid-level but the Spurs got Roger Mason for 2.4 million last season. I don't care who's our starting two guard. I don't even care if we don't even address it. But we need to come out of this off season with a slasher regardless if he plays the 2 or the 3 spot. And we sure as hell need a big man. Kaman when healthy is a potential all star in the West. Jefferson is a potential all star in the East. I'm not sure how anyone couldn't be pleased with a off season that would've landed us both. I don't see it getting much better than that this off season or even coming close.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:21 AM
You don't think that having Kaman/Jefferson is better than having Damp/Josh

No, I don't. RJ and Josh are completely interchangeable. Where this idea that RJ is a better player than Howard is coming from, I have absolutely no clue.


I want Kaman too, but if Wright is still our starting 2, then no, I don't like that lineup.

dalger
06-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Why would you be pissed? You can get a 2 guard in here for the mid-level. I don't have faith in the Mavs using their mid-level but the Spurs got Roger Mason for 2.4 million last season. I don't care who's our starting two guard. I don't even care if we don't even address it. But we need to come out of this off season with a slasher regardless if he plays the 2 or the 3 spot. And we sure as hell need a big man. Kaman when healthy is a potential all star in the West. Jefferson is a potential all star in the East. I'm not sure how anyone couldn't be pleased with a off season that would've landed us both. I don't see it getting much better than that this off season or even coming close.

...yep. Kaman/Jefferson for Howard/Stack really could have been possible. It's not that there are no better players than them, but it's not easy to get them.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Why would you be pissed? You can get a 2 guard in here for the mid-level. I don't have faith in the Mavs using their mid-level but the Spurs got Roger Mason for 2.4 million last season. I don't care who's our starting two guard. I don't even care if we don't even address it. But we need to come out of this off season with a slasher regardless if he plays the 2 or the 3 spot. And we sure as hell need a big man. Kaman when healthy is a potential all star in the West. Jefferson is a potential all star in the East. I'm not sure how anyone couldn't be pleased with a off season that would've landed us both. I don't see it getting much better than that this off season or even coming close.

Well now it's too f*cking late isn't it? Dear lord, we missed the Richard Jefferson express to the 2010 finals. I'm going to go kill myself now.

dalger
06-24-2009, 09:26 AM
No, I don't. RJ and Josh are completely interchangeable. Where this idea that RJ is a better player than Howard is coming from, I have absolutely no clue.


I want Kaman too, but if Wright is still our starting 2, then no, I don't like that lineup.

If Josh and Jefferson are interchangeable, then you'd still have the benefit of having Kaman instead of Dampier, so it is a better lineup. You'd switch two comparable players in Josh and RJ and then add Kaman for Stack. That sounds alright. Again, do we really have better options?

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:29 AM
If Josh and Jefferson are interchangeable, then you'd still have the benefit of having Kaman instead of Dampier, so it's still a better lineup. You'd switch two comparable players in Josh and RJ and then add Kaman for Stack. That sounds alright. Again, do we relly have better options?

Even with RJ, I seriously doubt Cubes would've done Kaman/Howard. Howard's contract is such that he's not going to be traded unless it's for a perennial all-star. Kaman doesn't qualify.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:30 AM
I did not say the Mavs couldn't use him. I just don't think they could use him as much as some other players. Jefferson is basically the same player as Howard. And please don't use his 3 pt shooting as a selling point. His shot is very inconsistent.

Maybe I misunderstood you but you said that Jefferson wouldn't have been a fit here. Who's shot isn't inconsistent in the NBA? No one shoots over 50% from mid range or 3 point land lol. And I do agree that Jefferson isn't much of an upgrade over Josh however the Spurs didn't give up a Josh Howard to obtain Jefferson. They gave up Oberto. Not to mention Jefferson actually shows up in the 4th quarter. And let me say I have no problem with Josh. I just think his time here is done. If we could get another guy in here that's just as good as Josh I think that alone would be an upgrade. Not to mention Jefferson gets to the line 6.3 times a game compared to Dirk's 6.7 and to Josh's 4.2.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Well now it's too f*cking late isn't it? Dear lord, we missed the Richard Jefferson express to the 2010 finals. I'm going to go kill myself now.

Why are you cursing at me? I'm sure this is the same approach the Mavs front office takes. Like I said, i'm not as upset about not getting Jefferson as I am the potential of not doing anything this off season.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:35 AM
If Josh and Jefferson are interchangeable, then you'd still have the benefit of having Kaman instead of Dampier, so it is a better lineup. You'd switch two comparable players in Josh and RJ and then add Kaman for Stack. That sounds alright. Again, do we really have better options?

No. I don't think we come out of this offseason with players the caliber of Jefferson and Kaman. Especially if all we have to do is give up Dampier and Josh. Then we still have the mid-level to play with.

dalger
06-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Even with RJ, I seriously doubt Cubes would've done Kaman/Howard. Howard's contract is such that he's not going to be traded unless it's for a perennial all-star. Kaman doesn't qualify.

Sure, that's why you'd have to look at the whole thing differently. Only technically it's Josh for Kaman. Talent wise it's more like Stack for Kaman and Josh for Jefferson. The former deal is a significant improvement and something probably anyone would do, while the latter is a lateral move to make perfect sense of the first trade.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Maybe I misunderstood you but you said that Jefferson wouldn't have been a fit here. Who's shot isn't inconsistent in the NBA? No one shoots over 50% from mid range or 3 point land lol. And I do agree that Jefferson isn't much of an upgrade over Josh however the Spurs didn't give up a Josh Howard to obtain Jefferson. They gave up Oberto. Not to mention Jefferson actually shows up in the 4th quarter. And let me say I have no problem with Josh. I just think his time here is done. If we could get another guy in here that's just as good as Josh I think that alone would be an upgrade. Not to mention Jefferson gets to the line 6.3 times a game compared to Dirk's 6.7 and to Josh's 4.2.

For umpteenth time, I'm saying that RJ is a 3, and we need a 2. You touted RJ's 3pt shooting as a selling point. He is NOT a good 3pt shooter. He's about average.

Let me put it this way. I'll take VC and Damp over RJ and Kaman.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:37 AM
Sure, that's why you'd have to look at the whole thing differently. It's not Josh for Kaman. It's Stack for Kaman and Josh for Jefferson. The former deal is a significant improvement and something probably anyone would do, while the latter is a lateral move to make perfect sense of the first trade.

Dude, it was never gonna happen anyway.

dalger
06-24-2009, 09:41 AM
Dude, it was never gonna happen anyway.

...because there was no chance for it to happen or because we just didn't make it happen? ;)

I hope we have something better in store. If not, Jefferson would have been perfect to land us a quality center in Kaman without giving up anything more than Stack's contract which would have to be considered a best-case scenario.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm just not buying this notion that by missing out on RJ we miss out on Kaman by proxy.

Dtownsfinest
06-24-2009, 09:50 AM
For umpteenth time, I'm saying that RJ is a 3, and we need a 2. You touted RJ's 3pt shooting as a selling point. He is NOT a good 3pt shooter. He's about average.

Let me put it this way. I'll take VC and Damp over RJ and Kaman.

Is Carter not a good 3 point shooter either since he shoots a inconsistent 38%? I like Carter as well. But I find it odd Jefferson "wouldn't fit" yet Carter who demands the ball offensively in order to be effective is. And you keep talking about a 3 and 2 but what exactly is the difference in the position? You want a solid rebounder and defender at the 3 spot so I understand why you wouldn't want a 2 playing the 3 and at the 2 you want someone who can attack the basket as well shoot well from the field. In 2009 playing the 2 or 3 spot isn't some stretch. Especially since most players in this league play both the 2 and 3 spot.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 09:58 AM
Is Carter not a good 3 point shooter either since he shoots a inconsistent 38%? I like Carter as well. But I find it odd Jefferson "wouldn't fit" yet Carter who demands the ball offensively in order to be effective is. And you keep talking about a 3 and 2 but what exactly is the difference in the position? You want a solid rebounder and defender at the 3 spot so I understand why you wouldn't want a 2 playing the 3 and at the 2 you want someone who can attack the basket as well shoot well from the field. In 2009 playing the 2 or 3 spot isn't some stretch. Especially since most players in this league play both the 2 and 3 spot.

Carter is a MUCH better shooter than RJ, which is one of the main reasons I favor him of the two. Really, they're even not close.

It's not so much the difference between the two positions, it's what we're missing that the RJ DOES NOT give you. Ball handling and shooting.

Jesus, I'm really tired of this discussion because we're going in circles. I've said about a thousand times now that RJ wouldn't fit here because he's basically the same player as Howard. And then you come right back and say "then we can trade Howard for Kaman!!!"

It wasn't gonna happen. It just wasn't. Even if we had traded for RJ, Howard wouldn't be going anywhere. Not for Kaman. So bottom line, a move for RJ doesn't solve our problems as well as VC does.

dalger
06-24-2009, 10:10 AM
I'm just not buying this notion that by missing out on RJ we miss out on Kaman by proxy.

The best we could offer for Kaman without hurting the team would be Stack/Williams. That most probably won't get it done. I guess even Stack/Wright or Stack/Barea wouldn't be enough, and in that case we'd already have given up a rotation player.

The Clippers were apparently interested in trading Kaman for Miller. Why would they be satisfied with players like Williams, Wright, or Barea when they could get much more?

That "much more" would be Howard. I think they would take him in a heartbeat. A good player with a potentially expiring contract. It doesn't get much better than that. We, on the other hand, would compensate the loss of Josh by adding Jefferson. We'd have the full benefit of having Kaman without giving up anything, since Jefferson and Josh are on the same level. It's the combination of both trades.

It's all meaningless now, I know. But that scenario would still have been pretty nice to realize.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 10:19 AM
The best we could offer for Kaman without hurting the team would be Stack/Williams. That most probably won't get it done. I guess even Stack/Wright or Stack/Barea wouldn't be enough, and in that case we'd already have given up a rotation player.

The Clippers were apparently interested in trading Kaman for Miller. Why would they be satisfied with players like Williams, Wright, or Barea when they could get much more?

That "much more" would be Howard. I think they would take him in a heartbeat. A good player with a potentially expiring contract. It doesn't get much better than that. We, on the other hand, would compensate the loss of Josh by adding Jefferson. We'd have the full benefit of having Kaman without giving up anything, since Jefferson and Josh are on the same level.

It's all meaningless now, I know. But that scenario would still have been pretty nice to realize.

And we still lose in that deal, because not only are we losing the best player in the deal, we've still got that huge gaping hole in the starting lineup, that I am nowhere near as confident as you are that we could fill so easily with the MLE. And then our bench is terrible because we have nothing to work with since we used the MLE on a starting 2.

On top of the fact that it wouldn't have happened anywway, because Cuban would be A LOT happier going to war adding RJ and leaving everyone alone than trading J-Ho for Kaman. Kaman is nowhere near enough of an upgrade at the center spot for Cuban to lose both J-Ho's on-court production and his valuable contract. Seriously, the idea is a bit ridiculous.

Underdog
06-24-2009, 10:21 AM
The Clippers were apparently interested in trading Kaman for Miller. Why would they be satisfied with players like Williams, Wright, or Barea when they could get much more?

But Kaman-for-Miller was shot down - the Clips might want a certain price for Kaman, but apparently he isn't being perceived as worth it (which makes me a tad wary about his health all of a sudden...)

On another note, what would it take to get Camby? He still makes a lot of sense here - he's a double-double machine and can still lock down the paint better than Dampier ever could...

BGMaverick9
06-24-2009, 10:23 AM
Honestly, I'll be a bit surprised if we don't get VC this summer. It's just too obvious not to get done. NJ is eager to move him, he clearly fits all of the Mavs' needs, and I don't think there are any other teams willing to take his contract. It just makes sense. Way more than RJ.


They are eager to move him, I'll bite on that...but from the reading I've done, they feel if they keep their pieces together from last year and add whatever they do with the draft and the MLE and etc...they can compete for the playoffs. If they can do that, then they'll hold tight.

Add this to the equation:
Tuesday’s deal came to fruition only after talks with New Jersey regarding one of Jefferson’s former Nets teammates — eight-time All-Star Vince Carter — came to a halt.

According to an Eastern Conference executive, Bowen, Oberto, Thomas and Roger Mason Jr. had been offered to the Nets in exchange for Carter and the Nets’ first-round pick in Thursday’s draft. The Spurs balked when the Nets asked for additional considerations, then turned their focus to Jefferson.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 10:25 AM
They are eager to move him, I'll bite on that...but from the reading I've done, they feel if they keep their pieces together from last year and add whatever they do with the draft and the MLE and etc...they can compete for the playoffs. If they can do that, then they'll hold tight.

Add this to the equation:


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs

If that's true, then we're probably boned. Although, I'm still crossing my fingers that they'll go for a Stack and a S&T with Bass.

BGMaverick9
06-24-2009, 10:34 AM
If that's true, then we're probably boned. Although, I'm still crossing my fingers that they'll go for a Stack and a S&T with Bass.

I don't really see the Spurs throwing out that kind of information even when they got a great guy out of the process anyways.

That's why I think we're in trouble if we get heavy in VC talks. Are we willing to throw ALL the mentioned assets to make it happen? Will it even matter b/c they might not bite anyways.

dalger
06-24-2009, 11:07 AM
And we still lose in that deal, because not only are we losing the best player in the deal, we've still got that huge gaping hole in the starting lineup, that I am nowhere near as confident as you are that we could fill so easily with the MLE. And then our bench is terrible because we have nothing to work with since we used the MLE on a starting 2.

On top of the fact that it wouldn't have happened anywway, because Cuban would be A LOT happier going to war adding RJ and leaving everyone alone than trading J-Ho for Kaman. Kaman is nowhere near enough of an upgrade at the center spot for Cuban to lose both J-Ho's on-court production and his valuable contract. Seriously, the idea is a bit ridiculous.

Has Josh really been better than Jefferson recently? I think it's debatable that Josh would have been the best player in that whole scenario. Plus, having Kaman/Jefferson is clearly better than having Josh/Stack and pretty much solves one of our biggest problems.

Do you really believe that we can land a center AND a shooting guard with Josh and Stack and thus close both gaping holes in our starting lineup? If so, what would be your realistic suggestion?

We could use Damp's contract for a starting SG and the MLE for a contributor off the bench. So there would actually be one piece to improve our bench. It wouldn't be any better if we traded Josh/Stack for Carter. Then we'd actually have two gaping holes in our starting lineup to fill instead of one.

So with all due respect, I think your criticism might be more ridiculous than my trade idea, especially when your only suggestion is to trade for Carter who would create more holes than the proposed Kaman/Jefferson deal could have ever done. Even Cuban should find out that Kaman and Jefferson are more productive than Damp and Josh.

But Kaman-for-Miller was shot down - the Clips might want a certain price for Kaman, but apparently he isn't being perceived as worth it (which makes me a tad wary about his health all of a sudden...)

On another note, what would it take to get Camby? He still makes a lot of sense here - he's a double-double machine and can still lock down the paint better than Dampier ever could...

I wouldn't trade Kaman for Josh either, only as part of that one-two punch. It only makes sense when you don't lose the production at the 3. Jefferson would have taken care of that, so we basically would have gotten Kaman for nothing (Stack's contract).

Camby should probably come much cheaper. I'm under the impression that the Clippers would prefer to trade Kaman in order to get more in return as he's clearly more valuable than Camby all things considered.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 11:18 AM
So with all due respect, I think your criticism might be more ridiculous than my trade idea, especially when your only suggestion is to trade for Carter who would create more holes than the proposed Kaman/Jefferson deal could have ever done.

That doesn't make sense.


I wouldn't trade Kaman for Josh either, only as part of that one-two punch. It only makes sense when you don't lose the production at the 3. Jefferson would have taken care of that, so we basically would have gotten Kaman for nothing (Stack's contract).

Camby should probably come much cheaper. I'm under the impression that the Clippers would prefer to trade Kaman in order to get more in return as he's clearly more valuable than Camby all things considered.

It's not about what you or I would do. It's about what Cuban would do. Cuban would not do that deal.

dalger
06-24-2009, 11:37 AM
That doesn't make sense.

...not Carter himself, the trade to get him, as mentioned many times before. We'd have no 3 and Damp would still be our center. These problems would have to be solved with Damp himself and the MLE. Our bench, which is already terrible according to your assessment, would be the same. It's not that we couldn't be better at the end of this offseason if we went that route, it just doesn't seem to be the best and most productive way.

Cuban makes the decisions, sure, but should we honestly base our ideas on what might be good for the Mavs on the perceived decision-making process of the owner? How do we know what Cuban would or would not do? And even if he wasn't in favor of certain deals, does it mean that we can't discuss them or even make the bold claim that Cuban is wrong for once in his life?

Nash13
06-24-2009, 11:58 AM
I'm so sick of hearing about 2010. The only teams worried about 2010 are teams who suck. And no big name free agent is leaving millions on the table to join another team. None. Maybe Chris Bosh and you're even seeing stories about him resigning with the Raptors. This is the perfect time for the Mavs to become buyers because as you can see teams are giving away solid contributors for next to nothing.

I'm pretty sure Bosh is willing to bolt, maybe Wade. If Lebron does leave, it won't be to us. Amare is all but gone even if they trade him somewhere he wants to go. Yao could take off as well as long as it's a big market city. Even with that said, it's not necessarily just about 2010. This team has been in salary cap hell for the past 9-10yrs. We've basically tried to buy a championship in the past. And if this team doesn't get a game-changer like a VC, then i don't see why taking on salary in a seller's market is a good idea.




Wasn't Jefferson the only offensive option for the Bucks? Maybe Sessions? Doesn't that mean with 3 or 4 other options that would make him even BETTER? And i'm not really sure what you mean about a Rockets trade. They traded for Drexler years ago and got a championship. They grabbed Artest for Bobby Jackson and had it not been for a T-Mac and Yao Ming injury who knows what the limit was for that team. I sure as hell give their front office a lot more credit than I give the Mavs.

As far as the Walker and Jamison trades it didn't make us look better on paper when we were starting Dirk and Antoine Walker at the 5 spot. Jamison filled a need. Walker? He added some. I don't see how the Jefferson trade compares.

When Jefferson was on a contender team, it was when he 1st came in the league with Jersey. Grant it he was just starting out, but he was only a 16ppg type of player. It was when Kidd/Carter were consistently out with injury when he started to get better. I'm just not sold on this trade just yet. For example, when Shane Battier was traded to Houston, people around here started to get really nervous about them. And since he's got there, he's pretty much been there to play defense and chuck 3's. And he may not be at Jefferson's level, but he was brought there for the same reasons people think Jefferson was traded to the Spurs.

And as far as what you said about the Rockets, they could add another all star player and i still think it wouldn't make a difference. Ever since we beat them in the playoffs, they haven't been able to stay healthy. This is the 2nd consecutive year Yao's missed the end of the season. And TMac's never going to be healthy. And if he ever does come back for good, he won't be the player he once was.

SMC0007
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
you hit the nail on the coffin. I don't think anyone is going to mistake Cuban to be in their class. I guess the city of Dallas and the Mavericks' fans around the world are getting hit in the mouth with this fact the last couple of years.



lol awesome.

Thespiralgoeson
06-24-2009, 01:41 PM
...not Carter himself, the trade to get him, as mentioned many times before. We'd have no 3 and Damp would still be our center. These problems would have to be solved with Damp himself and the MLE. Our bench, which is already terrible according to your assessment, would be the same. It's not that we couldn't be better at the end of this offseason if we went that route, it just doesn't seem to be the best and most productive way.

What are you talking about "no 3?" The idea is to get VC without giving up any of our core...

Cuban makes the decisions, sure, but should we honestly base our ideas on what might be good for the Mavs on the perceived decision-making process of the owner? How do we know what Cuban would or would not do? And even if he wasn't in favor of certain deals, does it mean that we can't discuss them or even make the bold claim that Cuban is wrong for once in his life?

No, it means it's not worth discussing because it was never going to happen and was a bad idea anyway. Trading for RJ and then turning around and trading Howard for Kaman? Kaman isn't worth losing Howard, even with RJ. And please for god's sake don't explain it me again. "We're not really losing Howard, because we have RJ." I GET IT. I still wouldn't do it.

mac222b
06-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Good god, what a bunch of whiny knee-jerkers we have on this board. RJ would not have been a great fit here. Yeah, it really sucks that the Spurs got him, but please people, please stop bitching about how our whole offseason just went out the window.

We've both been on the "we need VC bandwagon" for a long time now. He's an underrated passer,rebounder and would be a great compliment to Dirk. I just don't think we get it done w/out giving up Josh. If they'll do it for Stack and garbage--great! But do any of us really believe they'd do that? If we do Stack and Damp they get no talent back and we have no Center. They'll be making a run at Lebron and want talent and flexibility. Maybe they'll do it for Josh&junk? Probably not.
People are bitching because each move or non-move effects the next. We've lost 3 potential trade partners which could hurt our leverage and the free agency period looms. It would be nice to know which positions we needed to fill. Or are we going with best player available? The angst on this board may in part be that the best player available "for nothing" (i.e. salary dump) just got snapped up by our rivals. Is our roster so talented that we can afford to pass up guys like Jefferson? He's not Gaso, no one said he is, but the deal is vaguely Gasol-like. They gave up less than LA did for Gasol. If we can get Shaq,Kaman or VC it will probably require more than one trade chip. Hurting our depth and flexibilty.

mac222b
06-24-2009, 01:51 PM
How do we get VC w/out giving up any of our core?

dalger
06-24-2009, 02:03 PM
What are you talking about "no 3?" The idea is to get VC without giving up any of our core...

No, it means it's not worth discussing because it was never going to happen and was a bad idea anyway. Trading for RJ and then turning around and trading Howard for Kaman? Kaman isn't worth losing Howard, even with RJ. And please for god's sake don't explain it me again. "We're not really losing Howard, because we have RJ." I GET IT. I still wouldn't do it.

That's perfectly fine, but I asked you to please come up with a good idea on your own which you didn't do. We would have been a better team, if we had gone for realistic trades involving Kaman/RJ for Josh/Stack. You can certainly call that suggestion a bad idea, but to do so you should better have an idea of your own. If that very idea is to get Vince Carter without giving up any important player like Josh or JET, it's just very unrealistic.

Underdog
06-24-2009, 02:10 PM
If that very idea is to get Vince Carter without giving up any important player like Josh or JET, it's just very unrealistic.

That's the key - JET vs Josh... Which would you give up?

I'd do JET for VC in a heartbeat, but I'm not not so quick to pull the trigger on Josh...

Kidd/Carter/Josh/Dirk/Upgrade with MLE as 6th man looks a lot better than Kidd/Carter/MLE/Dirk/Upgrade with JET as 6th man...

SMC0007
06-24-2009, 02:32 PM
How do we get VC w/out giving up any of our core?


Improbable.



Jet
Stack
Bass

-

Dooling
Carter
R Anderson

SMC0007
06-24-2009, 02:35 PM
That's the key - JET vs Josh... Which would you give up?

I'd do JET for VC in a heartbeat, but I'm not not so quick to pull the trigger on Josh...

Kidd/Carter/Josh/Dirk/Upgrade with MLE as 6th man looks a lot better than Kidd/Carter/MLE/Dirk/Upgrade with JET as 6th man...



Yes.

You have to sweeten the pot tho on a JET for VC. There's no way they take that.

Underdog
06-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Yes.

You have to sweeten the pot tho on a JET for VC. There's no way they take that.

Agreed - I was just referring to the centerpiece of a deal...

dalger
06-24-2009, 02:44 PM
That's the key - JET vs Josh... Which would you give up?

I'd do JET for VC in a heartbeat, but I'm not not so quick to pull the trigger on Josh...

Kidd/Carter/Josh/Dirk/Upgrade with MLE as 6th man looks a lot better than Kidd/Carter/MLE/Dirk/Upgrade with JET as 6th man...

Absolutely. JET/Stack for Carter wouldn't create much of a hole compared to a trade for Josh/Stack as we're talking about the same position. It wouldn't be an incredible upgrade and less effective than what the Spurs pulled off yesterday, but we'd still be a better team.

To further improve the team we'd have to pray that New Orleans or Charlotte are willing to trade with us. They'd never do Chandler for Dampier or Okafor for Dampier straight up, though possible, so I guess we'd have to take additional salary and offer something like Damp/Wright for Okafor/Mohammed or Damp/S&T Bass for Chandler/Posey. We'd then still have the MLE to get us another contributor.

So it would be something like:

Okafor/Dirk/Josh/Carter/Kidd + another SG/SF with the MLE
or
Chandler/Dirk/Josh/Carter/Kidd + e.g. Sessions with the MLE

With that said, I have no idea how likely any of those deals are.

Underdog
06-24-2009, 02:47 PM
Absolutely. JET/Stack for Carter wouldn't create much of a hole compared to a trade for Josh/Stack as we're talking about the same position. It wouldn't be an incredible upgrade and less effective than what the Spurs pulled off yesterday, but we'd still be a better team.

To further improve the team we'd have to pray that New Orleans or Charlotte are willing to trade with us. They'd never do Chandler for Dampier or Okafor for Dampier straight up, though possible, so I guess we'd have to take additional salary and offer something like Damp/Wright for Okafor/Mohammed or Damp/S&T Bass for Chandler/Posey. We'd then still have the MLE to get us another contributor.

So it would be something like:

Okafor/Dirk/Josh/Carter/Kidd + another SG/SF with the MLE
or
Chandler/Dirk/Josh/Carter/Kidd + e.g. Sessions with the MLE

With that said, I have no idea how likely any of those deals are.

It's a wacky offseason, no?

So many options, yet the possibility of doing nothing (aside from Stack/#22/MLE) is just as equal...

dalger
06-24-2009, 03:03 PM
It's a wacky offseason, no?

So many options, yet the possibility of doing nothing (aside from Stack/#22/MLE) is just as equal...

It is, as always. I just hope that we don't miss too many options. Yesterday was one of those days where one of our biggest rivals got significantly better and made you realize that something needs to happen.

New Jersey would probably like Josh/Stack for Carter. They'd save a lot of money and get a great player in Josh that they could let go before next year's big free agency. We should only offer JET/Stack for Carter though.

As far as the trade ideas with Charlotte and especially New Orleans are concerned, I assume that they want to get rid of salary. There's no better way for New Orleans than trading Chandler and Posey (well, Peja, but no one is going to take him). Charlotte, on the other hand, has been shopping Mohammed for quite a long time, so having him leave and getting someone like Wright in return, who is a solid rotation player and has an expiring contract as well, might be enough for them to be satisfied with our offer.

Still, it's just impossible to make any predictions whatsover. May the FO at least try to do something like this.

TheMaverick
06-24-2009, 06:41 PM
Spiral, people who reacted to the RJ move by the Spurs are not basing it on the fact that Jefferson puts them "clearly over the top", this move does not make them a hands down favorite to win it all. So, I don't know where this Jefferson express to the Finals thing you are referring to came from. Most of us are upset because A) the Spurs gave up nothing, since 2/3 of the parts to the trade are rumored to return with them and B) the Spurs are without a doubt our biggest rival and seeing your biggest rival clearly improve while you stand pat is frustrating.

Also, it is quite humorous to me that you are calling everyone knee jerkers and whiners when you talk about the Kidd trade like it was the end of the world.

darkwitzki
06-24-2009, 08:42 PM
We could still beat the Spurs in 7 given our current lineup against them with Jefferson, lol.. Believe me guys, JHo's gonna have a a break thru this season, so we might as well hold into him for now. Hate to see Terry go, let's get VC!

slowmo
06-25-2009, 08:37 AM
josh for vc could happen. Remember that josh and Devin are best friends and the funk josh went into when Devin was traded. Bringing them back together would be invigorating for josh and give the nets a dynamic duo. Get er done!

Justin Credible
06-25-2009, 10:20 AM
josh for vc could happen. Remember that josh and Devin are best friends and the funk josh went into when Devin was traded. Bringing them back together would be invigorating for josh and give the nets a dynamic duo. Get er done!

I 110% support trading Jet/Stack (maybe s&t Bass) for VC, but I do not support Josh being involved in that trade at all.. I don't see trading Josh as a good thing in this scenario.. It's almost a lateral movement with the obvious upside going to us with VC. But is that slight upside really worth our #2 scorer and our best trade chip(s)?

I honestly don't think so.

TheMaverick
06-25-2009, 11:20 AM
I'm okay with Josh for Vince if we pick up Marion w the MLE.

Underdog
06-25-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm okay with Josh for Vince if we pick up Marion w the MLE.

That's the tricky part - if you trade Josh for Carter and DON'T land Marion, then you're boned...

(but I still like the idea of trying to pull off Kidd/Carter/Marion/Dirk/Upgrade a lot better than coming back with the same roster!)

TheMaverick
06-25-2009, 11:52 AM
I think once Marion realizes he's not getting more than the MLE... Dallas will be on his short list of destinations.

Underdog
06-25-2009, 11:56 AM
I think once Marion realizes he's not getting more than the MLE... Dallas will be on his short list of destinations.

I've said it the past 3 offseasons and I'll say it again - I'd LOVE to see Marion's ugly shooting style in Dallas...

(especially if Jason Kidd could find the Old Marion from Phoenix...)

TheMaverick
06-25-2009, 11:58 AM
If Marion came to Dallas with our ultra talented offensive players, he wouldn't have to take a jumper. He should average 4 dunks and 6 free throw attempts a game. That'll be around his 14ppg average.

by ultra talented offensive players, I mean Dirk

horse900703
06-25-2009, 12:14 PM
this trade might help spurs alot.

Underdog
06-25-2009, 12:20 PM
this trade might help spurs alot.

Good to see Horse finally weigh in on the conversation!

(his basketball wisdom knows no bounds...)

horse900703
06-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Good to see Horse finally weigh in on the conversation!

(his basketball wisdom knows no bounds...)
shut ur mouth

Underdog
06-25-2009, 01:35 PM
dammit horse!

ty
06-25-2009, 03:16 PM
Check.

EricaLubarsky
07-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Oberto waived. Free to come back to the Spurs in 3 weeks if he so desires. Rumors are Bowen will retire (as the biggest dick in the NBA)

MavsFanFinley
07-02-2009, 03:26 PM
The only way I see Oberto returning to the Spurs is if they strike out in free agency or are unable to pull off a trade for a big man.

They're clearly moving forward and Bowen or Oberto don't appear to be in the plans.

The only big men we know they've reached out to are Wallace, McDyess, and Bass.

mavs777
04-08-2010, 06:14 PM
Why can't we make good trades?

:D

LonghornDub
04-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Good thread, would read again.

Underdog
04-18-2010, 11:11 PM
Anyone still want Jefferson over Marion?

Dirkadirkastan
04-19-2010, 02:23 AM
I was one of the few people that never gave two sh!ts about Jefferson.

If you had asked me before either summer trade went down who I would want, I'd have picked Marion without batting an eye.

kchan
04-19-2010, 03:00 AM
Marion>Jefferson. The only advantage Jeff ever had was that he played with Kidd for a long time and they know each other's game very well.

CadBane
04-20-2010, 01:18 AM
Jefferson put up good numbers with the Bucks and NJ after Kidd left. He was hardly simply a Kidd product. Problem is he had a number on injuries and age take their tool. He used to be a guy who could create for himself and others (5 assist a game one year I think). He's just lost it.

kchan
04-20-2010, 04:14 AM
I didnt say that Jeff was a bad player or a Kidd product. Just IMO that Marion>Jeff, and that the advantage in getting Jeff instead of Marion is that Kidd and Jeff had played years together. Maybe I should have been more clear. ^_^

MavsX
04-20-2010, 07:01 AM
marion ftw

tcat075
04-20-2010, 07:05 AM
I love the mad face next to the thread title. Not so mad anymore, are we?

LonghornDub
04-20-2010, 01:13 PM
Jefferson looks as indecisive on the court as he did last summer at the altar.

Dirkadirkastan
04-20-2010, 01:48 PM
Jefferson looks as indecisive on the court as he did last summer at the altar.

You stole that joke from this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-nowitzkimavericks041910).

LonghornDub
04-20-2010, 01:53 PM
You stole that joke from this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-nowitzkimavericks041910).

Actually, I stole it from a buddy who texted it to me, but I suppose he probably stole it from that article, huh?

Also, as I told my buddy, if we wanna get nitty gritty, he actually never was indecisive at the altar, considering he dumped her via email.

ty
04-20-2010, 02:06 PM
Jefferson looks as indecisive on the court as he did last summer at the altar.

Brilliance.

spreedom
04-20-2010, 03:44 PM
Jefferson put up good numbers with the Bucks and NJ after Kidd left. He was hardly simply a Kidd product. Problem is he had a number on injuries and age take their tool. He used to be a guy who could create for himself and others (5 assist a game one year I think). He's just lost it.


He put up numbers on the Bucks, but his actual game stunk. I live in Madison so I had the opportunity to watch him many, many times. He turned into a chucker that played zero defense.

robino2001
04-26-2010, 08:01 PM
I was one of the few people that never gave two sh!ts about Jefferson.

If you had asked me before either summer trade went down who I would want, I'd have picked Marion without batting an eye.

So if I ask you after the first round of the 2010 playoffs... ?

Just checking...

Dirkadirkastan
04-26-2010, 08:08 PM
Who hasn't had one good playoff game?

Butler's a dud, too.

mavs777
04-27-2011, 02:05 AM
Playoffs
MPG: 33.25
PPG: 8.25
RPG: 4.75
APG: 1
Missed open buzzer beater to tie game: 1
FG %: 45.4
Defense: invisible

mavs777
06-05-2011, 01:12 AM
So if I ask you after the first round of the 2010 playoffs... ?

Just checking...

how about now?


Just checking...

MaverickOutlaw
06-05-2011, 08:50 AM
Pretty much overrated trade.

Blackspider
06-20-2011, 01:04 PM
Richard Jefferson is an overhyped spare.

LonghornDub
06-20-2011, 01:23 PM
Lol Richard Jefferson.

sefant77
06-20-2011, 01:34 PM
The extension was just terrible....length, amount etc

dalger
06-20-2011, 03:06 PM
The Spurs really shot themselves in the foot last summer by extending his contract for another four years at a still-almost-untradeable price instead of letting his original contract run another year and dealing him prior to last February's trade deadline.

It's been pretty obvious for a while that he isn't the missing piece to their puzzle (if their even is one). Then again, due to their great run this season, they may not even have dealt him in February. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess, although there were most likely better guys available.