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Five-ofan
07-21-2009, 05:46 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=4336261


If the supreme court sides with the nfl in this case, sports in america will pretty much be over...

Robillion
07-21-2009, 06:21 PM
This will back fire on the NFL... like the article said... big risk, big reward. I dont see a reward happening in this case for them. They've played their hand a bit too strong this time I believe. Or hope...

Dirkadirkastan
07-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Just get rid of the NFL. Football is the most overrated thing since the Statue of Liberty was built.

Underdog
07-21-2009, 07:39 PM
Just get rid of the NFL. Football is the most overrated thing since the Statue of Liberty was built.

Judas!

badfish22
07-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Just get rid of the NFL. Football is the most overrated thing since the Statue of Liberty was built.

:eek: You can be sentenced to death for saying that in Texas!

chumdawg
07-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Just get rid of the NFL. Football is the most overrated thing since the Statue of Liberty was built.You're from California, right?

Dirkadirkastan
07-21-2009, 11:29 PM
No, Chum.

chumdawg
07-21-2009, 11:46 PM
No, Chum.Where you from, homes?

Dirkadirkastan
07-21-2009, 11:59 PM
South. Closer to Spurs country than I generally like to admit.

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be freaking out over the possible corporate takeover of our beloved sports?

chumdawg
07-22-2009, 12:12 AM
South. Closer to Spurs country than I generally like to admit.

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be freaking out over the possible corporate takeover of our beloved sports?No, not really, because its a non sequitor from the start. Sports are going to be what they always have been.

I had a different image in mind for you. If you are further south than Dallas, you have no excuse for affiliation beyond the Mavs, Spurs, Rockets, or Cowboys. And that reads at about 80% Cowboys.

I could give you a pass on the Cowboys if you were fanatic about an NBA team in your burbs...but if you aren't...as you evidently aren't...you are nothing less than sacrilegious in denouncing the scope that the Cowboys enjoy round these parts.

Underdog
07-22-2009, 12:12 AM
South. Closer to Spurs country than I generally like to admit.

Double Judas!

dirno2000
07-22-2009, 12:53 AM
I don't get how this would lead to pro sports Armageddon. MLB has had an anti-trust exemption for years yet the players and managers are doing just fine. What am I missing?

Dirkadirkastan
07-22-2009, 12:56 AM
Double Judas!

You do realize this actually makes me "Judas" in the eyes of Spurs fans, correct?

Underdog
07-22-2009, 12:57 AM
You do realize this actually makes me "Judas" in the eyes of Spurs fans, correct?

Double Reverse-Judas!

(aha!)

chumdawg
07-22-2009, 01:22 AM
I don't get how this would lead to pro sports Armageddon. MLB has had an anti-trust exemption for years yet the players and managers are doing just fine. What am I missing?Exactly. Sports aren't going away anytime soon.

Usually Lurkin
07-22-2009, 08:53 AM
football at any level above high school gets really annoying really fast, and is completely useless at levels above college. I know, I know, in many ways there's no distinction between the three (especially in Texas). Technically speaking, they may all be professionals, but the professionalism is more pure at the lower levels - maybe because boosters are motivated by the team and lawyers are more interested in money.

anyway, since the Mavs record with Free Agents kinda sucks anyway, maybe this whole thing will really help us in the end.

DirkFTW
07-22-2009, 09:25 AM
Just get rid of the NFL. Football is the most overrated thing since the Statue of Liberty was built.

Sounds like a Texans fan!

http://renaissanceronin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/angry_mob.png

Five-ofan
07-22-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't get how this would lead to pro sports Armageddon. MLB has had an anti-trust exemption for years yet the players and managers are doing just fine. What am I missing?

Theres a difference between an anti trust exemption and what they are going for now. If the nfl wins this case foreign sports leagues would start to be legit options for pro athletes(except football, not really any choice for those guys).

Jack.Kerr
07-22-2009, 09:12 PM
Single-Entity Sports Leagues: A David Stern Wet Dream

Q: What Happens When There's No Competition, No Anti-Trust Laws, and No (Effective) Players' Union?

A: You still end up with crappy referees.


In China, a Rocky Ascent for Basketball

By DAN LEVIN (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/sports/basketball/23basketball.html?ref=sports&pagewanted=all)
Published: July 22, 2009 (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/sports/basketball/23basketball.html?ref=sports&pagewanted=all)

(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/sports/basketball/23basketball.html?ref=sports&pagewanted=all)
BEIJING — With 1.3 billion potential fans, (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/sports/basketball/23basketball.html?ref=sports&pagewanted=all)China (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/china/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) is increasingly seen as a financial promised land for N.B.A. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_basketball_association/index.html?inline=nyt-org) stars through endorsement deals, and the league itself has established a robust organization here valued at $2 billion.
Bonzi Wells, a less than stellar player in the N.B.A., frequently scored more than 40 points a game in the Chinese Basketball Association.

But China’s own professional league, the Chinese Basketball Association, has hardly enjoyed a smooth ascendance alongside this country’s basketball boom. American players and agents describe broken contracts, unpaid wages, suspicions of game-fixing and rising resentment toward foreign players. Several players have left China after failing to receive paychecks. Last month, the league announced that it lost $17 million last season, which ended in May.

Players and coaches in China’s professional league said problems escalated last season after the association loosened salary and court-time restrictions on foreign players, part of an effort to heighten the game’s appeal to China’s growing N.B.A fan base and to bring in more lucrative sponsorship deals. The association also hoped the prowess of imported players would help bolster China’s basketball prospects for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

The efforts yielded conflicting results. TV ratings soared, and foreign players found starring roles — the top 15 scorers were non-Chinese, and players like Bonzi Wells and Dontae’ Jones — who had less than stellar N.B.A. careers — frequently scored more than 40 points a game. At the same time, the dominance of foreign players fueled frustration.

“Foreigners should play supporting roles, not dominate the game,” said Zhang Xiong, director of operations for the Chinese Basketball Association.

Li Xiaofeng, 20, a restaurant manager and C.B.A. fan, said: “I don’t like foreign players. They got most of the chances to shoot and score. How about our own players? They don’t have the chance to bring their skill and talent into play.

"Our Chinese players’ ability is limited by the current rule.”

Some Chinese state news media outlets went so far as to call imported players a “malignant tumor.”

Meanwhile, China’s most prominent homegrown player, Yao Ming (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/y/yao_ming/index.html?inline=nyt-per), is an N.B.A. star. This month he bought the financially troubled Shanghai Sharks, for whom he played five seasons before joining the N.B.A.

Chinese players like Wang Yong of the Dongguan Leopards support the increased participation of foreign players. “Chinese and foreign players are a harmonious blend,” he said. “I’ve learned a lot from them this season and feel I am a better player.”

Foreign players bridled at accusations that they were selfish, saying they were simply following orders.

“The coaches tell you you’re the main scorer,” said Corsley Edwards, an American who played for the Yunnan Bulls (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/probasketball/nationalbasketballassociation/chicagobulls/index.html?inline=nyt-org) last season.

The dominance of international players is not the only systemic problem in the 18-team league. Coaches, visiting players and their agents suspect that the outcome of some games is predetermined.

Players recounted locker-room lectures in which they were told to slack off on the court. On other occasions, they said, the best players had to sit out particularly competitive games or were sent home once their teams made the playoffs.

Gabe Muoneke, an American player who joined the Yunnan Bulls last season, said he was told by a Chinese teammate that a game against the Shanghai Sharks in November was fixed.

“He said, ‘Listen, my bookie told me we’re going to win today, so don’t worry,’” Muoneke said.

At the time, Shanghai and Yunnan were the two worst teams in the league, both without a victory. The Bulls won, 107-97.

Muoneke said the incident confirmed what he and other players have long suspected: that game-fixing is a problem for the Chinese league.

“It’s common knowledge that Chinese teams bribe referees,” he said.

Awvee Storey, a former N.B.A. player with the Liaoning Hunters, said he often sensed his Chinese teammates were going through the motions. “I felt a lot of times we were playing just to play and not to win,” he said.

The league and Storey’s team denied allegations of game-fixing. The Yunnan Bulls contended that their international players did not understand Chinese basketball.

“C.B.A. referees are not very good,” said Wu Li, a team spokesman for the Liaoning Hunters. “Lots of people think referees make bad calls because they are being influenced by teams or coaches, but we don’t know of any proven cases.”

Wu went on to say that the foreign players’ bad attitudes caused many problems.

When asked about game-fixing, Zhang of the C.B.A. said, “There haven’t been any problems like that.”

Giovanni C. Funiciello, an agent who has sent players to China for more than eight years, said that although most games are played fairly, betting is a problem.

“Do I think some games to a degree are influenced?” he said. “Yeah, I would say so.”

The accusations have led to a spate of articles in the state-controlled Chinese news media about game-fixing and bribery, and the league vowed to crack down on such cheating.

Although the C.B.A. has denied the accusations, in November it announced harsher penalties for official misconduct. Social interactions between referees and team officials are now prohibited.

“This season we will put a knife to the neck of any referee who is involved in match-fixing or bribery,” Liu Xiaonong, the commissioner of the C.B.A., said last year, according to China Daily. “If a league is frequently linked to rumors of match-fixing, it means it has a big problem.”

Liu recently told Beijing Youth Daily that because of increased expenses from the C.B.A.’s expanded schedule, “the operation of the league and clubs are both in danger.”

The N.B.A. is undoubtedly watching these developments with interest. It has created an operation here that involves marketing partnerships, merchandising and events. Companies including Bank of China and ESPN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/espn/index.html?inline=nyt-org) invested $253 million to acquire a stake in the N.B.A. endeavor. The N.B.A. is also involved with building 12 basketball arenas in China.

“I’m not aware of cheating, but we’re not involved with it,” said David Stern (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/david_stern/index.html?inline=nyt-per), the commissioner of the N.B.A. “That’s totally 100 percent under control of the C.B.A., and they’ve made it clear they’d like to keep it that way.”

The Chinese league also faces allegations by its players that teams have reneged on contracts or failed to pay salaries.

Many former N.B.A. players were lured to China by six-figure salaries, in addition to free meals, lodging and family visits. Local players, by contrast, earn about $14,000 a season.

Faced with ballooning budgets and bleak championship prospects, some owners chose to throw in the towel, leaving imports unpaid and abandoned.

The story is familiar to players like Muoneke and Edwards, who left the Yunnan Bulls over contract disputes. Edwards played for three months, then the team’s general manager told him he would not be paid the rest of his salary. Filing a claim with the league got him nowhere, Edwards said.

His Chinese teammates face a similar plight. In May, long after their season ended, they sent a letter to the C.B.A. saying they had yet to receive 70 percent of their salaries and other compensation. The matter remains unresolved.

dirno2000
07-23-2009, 12:04 AM
Theres a difference between an anti trust exemption and what they are going for now. If the nfl wins this case foreign sports leagues would start to be legit options for pro athletes(except football, not really any choice for those guys).

What the difference? The potential payoff for the NFL, NHL and NBA would be the fact that they'd be immune to anti-trust lawsuits. That seems like a huge advantage when dealing with vendors and suppliers but not so much with players.

Stern still has a business to run and it doesn't make financial sense to create an environment where all the best players in the world no longer want to play in the NBA.

Plus as far as I know the rules that govern things like player movement and salary will still have to be collectively bargained. The owners can't unilaterally decide to lower the cap and shorten the maximum contract.

Five-ofan
07-23-2009, 02:17 AM
What the difference? The potential payoff for the NFL, NHL and NBA would be the fact that they'd be immune to anti-trust lawsuits. That seems like a huge advantage when dealing with vendors and suppliers but not so much with players.

Stern still has a business to run and it doesn't make financial sense to create an environment where all the best players in the world no longer want to play in the NBA.

Plus as far as I know the rules that govern things like player movement and salary will still have to be collectively bargained. The owners can't unilaterally decide to lower the cap and shorten the maximum contract.

thats true they cant lower max contracts but they could "collude" and just all agree not to pay anyone more than say the mle level even if a max contract was still allowed in the cba. Thats essentially what baseball did a long time ago.