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Mavsfan4ever
07-28-2009, 10:06 PM
I have been discussing elite teams in the west with other people and was wondering who other thought those teams were?

I know LA falls in this category and possibly SA. I also feel there is a great chance we reach elite status by the start of the season I hold out hope for a center.

Nowitzki4President
07-28-2009, 10:12 PM
1 LA
2 SA
3 Dallas
4 Denver
5 Blazers
6 New Orleans
7 Phoenix
8 Utah

The only new team in that top 8 is Phoenix. Houston got a hell of a lot worse, so they get kicked out. And of the teams that missed the playoffs, LAC is probably the team that improved the most, but not enough. And I think when it comes to coaching, Phoenix now has their sh!t together.

If we do get a good Center, we're either #1 or 2.

horse900703
07-28-2009, 10:14 PM
SA#2? I dont like SA in #2, I think the Mavs will beat the Spurs anytime.

Nowitzki4President
07-28-2009, 10:16 PM
SA#2? I dont like SA in #2, I think the Mavs will beat the Spurs anytime.

Mavs v Spurs, I take the Mavs.

But for most wins, if healthy, I take the Spurs because they don't lose as many dumb games as us. Like OKC, Bucks and Charlotte.

Mavsfan4ever
07-28-2009, 10:17 PM
I think we match up quite well with SA if we get a center the Spurs are SOL!

Dirkadirkastan
07-28-2009, 10:23 PM
Mavs v Spurs, I take the Mavs.

But for most wins, if healthy, I take the Spurs because they don't lose as many dumb games as us. Like OKC, Bucks and Charlotte.

The Spurs were 2-2 against OKC, 0-2 against the Bucks (they've had the Spurs' number the entire Duncan era), and 2-0 against Charlotte last year.

The Mavs were 2-1 against OKC, 1-1 against the Bucks, and 2-0 against Charlotte (never lost to them in the history of history).

Nowitzki4President
07-28-2009, 10:28 PM
The Spurs were 2-2 against OKC, 0-2 against the Bucks (they've had the Spurs' number the entire Duncan era), and 2-0 against Charlotte last year.

The Mavs were 2-1 against OKC, 1-1 against the Bucks, and 2-0 against Charlotte (never lost to them in the history of history).

Haha ya got me.

I just plucked random sh!tty teams out of oblivion. I'm just saying that I see us lose a lot of games against bad teams. Maybe I notice it because I watch like 70 Mavs games a year and like 3 Spurs games (When they're playing the Mavs). But I've seen games against bad teams that we lose, and I just think, wtf.

Dirkadirkastan
07-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Well it looks to me that all good teams lose to crappy ones occasionally. The Lakers somehow did manage to lose to Charlotte in both meetings last year.

fluid.forty.one
07-28-2009, 10:36 PM
1. Lakers
2. Mavericks
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Hornets
6. Blazers
7. Jazz
8. Suns

Mavsfan4ever
07-28-2009, 10:40 PM
1. Lakers
2. Mavericks
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Hornets
6. Blazers
7. Jazz
8. Suns

If the Lakers lose Odom and we gain a center we could easily be considered number one. I do, however, doubt a bias media would see it that way.

Dirkadirkastan
07-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Forget the "center".

Nowitzki4President
07-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Forget the "center".

The way you see it, we have no chance of a Center.

If that were the case, what would the Best Buck Shot move we could make be so that we're #1?

Mavsfan4ever
07-28-2009, 10:45 PM
1.LA
2.Dallas
3.SA
4.Denver
5.NO
6.Portland
7.Utah
8.Phoenix

I feel our starting five is just as good as SA, however, we have the better bench is why I put the Mavs above the Spurs.

MaVs 41 BaLler
07-28-2009, 11:53 PM
1. Lakers
2. Mavericks
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Hornets
6. Blazers
7. Jazz
8. Suns


I agree.

Dirkadirkastan
07-29-2009, 12:19 AM
1. Mavs
2. Who gives a f@ck

Underdog
07-29-2009, 12:21 AM
It's still too early to judge - if the Mavs have another trick up their sleeve, anyone else can too...

(Odom is still floating in limbo, for example...)

darkwitzki
07-29-2009, 12:42 AM
For me,

1. Lakers - even if they lose Odom to Miami, Kobe and the gang will still be the top team.
2. Spurs - Timmy will be healthy, assuming Parker's injury will heal before season, adding two proven veterans (Jefferson/ McDyess) and rookie who can contribute now (Blair).
3. Denver - We have yet to prove our guns against this athletic team, Billups and co. is still the same team that eliminated us.
4. Mavericks - Adding Marion, Gooden and Thomas w/out the expense of our core team, it's like adding spices to a perfect recipe. I'm really excited for a Denver matchup to see if we improved athletically and defensively.
5. Blazers - Adding Miller to this youngsters could infuse order in offense. See what Chauncey did to Denver?
6. Hornets - Nice upgrade in Emeka, again it's up to Paul to level up this guy, we'll see if Okafor can do what Chandler does.
7. Jazz - Same old team since Millsap does the same thing as Boozer. If they could pull up a decent scorer in a S&T for Boozer, I'll put them ahead of NO.
8. Warriors - Don Nelson has a lineup of talented but young scorers, the small ball formula of Nelson could make this guys winners, I say this team is a sleeper.

Underdog
07-29-2009, 12:58 AM
For me,

1. Lakers - even if they lose Odom to Miami, Kobe and the gang will still be the top team.
2. Spurs - Timmy will be healthy, assuming Parker's injury will heal before season, adding two proven veterans (Jefferson/ McDyess) and rookie who can contribute now (Blair).
3. Denver - We have yet to prove our guns against this athletic team, Billups and co. is still the same team that eliminated us.
4. Mavericks - Adding Marion, Gooden and Thomas w/out the expense of our core team, it's like adding spices to a perfect recipe. I'm really excited for a Denver matchup to see if we improved athletically and defensively.
5. Blazers - Adding Miller to this youngsters could infuse order in offense. See what Chauncey did to Denver?
6. Hornets - Nice upgrade in Emeka, again it's up to Paul to level up this guy, we'll see if Okafor can do what Chandler does.
7. Jazz - Same old team since Millsap does the same thing as Boozer. If they could pull up a decent scorer in a S&T for Boozer, I'll put them ahead of NO.
8. Warriors - Don Nelson has a lineup of talented but young scorers, the small ball formula of Nelson could make this guys winners, I say this team is a sleeper.

I pretty much agree with this assessment top to bottom, except for #8 - there's always a good chance TMac can lead the Rockets on a regular season tear to earn another first-round exit!


;)

clutch#41
07-29-2009, 01:27 AM
Lakers
Spurs
Nuggets
Mavs
Blazers
Hornets
Jazz
OKC


Top 8 teams next year

mavs777
07-29-2009, 01:30 AM
1. Mavs
2. Clippers
3. OKC
4. T Wolves
5. Golden State
6. Sacremento
7. Memphis
8. Rockets

clutch#41
07-29-2009, 01:32 AM
1. Mavs
2. Clippers
3. OKC
4. T Wolves
5. Golden State
6. Sacremento
7. Memphis
8. Rockets

U Stoned???? ha

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
07-29-2009, 01:36 AM
I think he thought the topic was worst teams in the West. He has no love for his Mavs. :(

Mavsfan4ever
07-29-2009, 01:38 AM
1. Mavs
2. Clippers
3. OKC
4. T Wolves
5. Golden State
6. Sacremento
7. Memphis
8. Rockets

Had me cleaning my glasses when I read that one.

Justin Credible
07-29-2009, 02:33 AM
San Antonio
Dallas
Nuggets
Lakers
Blazers
Utah
Hornets
Grizzlies


If Mavs meet Spurs, I choose Spurs.. But otherwise, I think it's very likely that they end up as a number 1 seed next season IF the Lakers lose Odom. I still think that the Artest acquisition is going to explode at some point through the season and, without Odom, is going to kill the chemistry of the team without having a bench to fall back on.

I'm sorry, but what the Spurs have done this offseason is awesome for them. They've addressed all their issues (sans health) and gotten deeper in the process. I can definitely see them being a number 1 seed as it stands right now.

If the Mavs pick up a 5 for the trade pieces that we must deal, and if Gooden/TT end up being worthwhile acquisitions.. Then I'd move the Mavs up to #1 and say they'd be looking at 60+ win season possibilities.

Sorry, just being honest. I hate the Spurs as well, but I give credit where it is due.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
07-29-2009, 04:54 AM
Lakers are 2 to 1 odds in Vegas to win it all again WITH OR WITHOUT ODOM! I don't see how you can put them any lower than a 2 seed, much less putting them the 4 seed. Gasol + Kobe are the main cogs for their success, Odom is an important third piece that puts them over every other team in the NBA talentwise. But even without Odom, they're still one of the most talented teams and still are contenders.

I think Artest ruining the Lakers chemistry is something we can all HOPE for, but can't guarentee.

Mavsfan4ever
07-29-2009, 08:24 AM
As much as I HATE the Lakers it is impossible to say they are not a top three team in the west. They are defending champs so for the moment they deserve their spot.

Justin Credible
07-29-2009, 11:00 AM
I'm sorry, I just can't help but think that Lakers fans are going to be sorely disappointed next season. The whole team was playing half-assed right up until they were facing potential elimination in the playoffs, and even then they seemed to struggle just a tad with a wildly depleted Rockets team.

That's what makes me think that Artest is going to be the kryptonite of their success. If they had a solid team with a decent bench going into the playoffs last season and just air-headed their way through (until they woke up), then what are they going to do with a combustible player like Artest and a slimmer bench?

I don't know, maybe I'm just being overly-optimistic as I'm a Kobe hater.

[edit] I'm still going under the impression that Lamar just goes to the Heat without a s&t being performed.

Mavsfan4ever
07-29-2009, 11:04 AM
I'm sorry, I just can't help but think that Lakers fans are going to be sorely disappointed next season. The whole team was playing half-assed right up until they were facing potential elimination in the playoffs, and even then they seemed to struggle just a tad with a wildly depleted Rockets team.

That's what makes me think that Artest is going to be the kryptonite of their success. If they had a solid team with a decent bench going into the playoffs last season and just air-headed their way through (until they woke up), then what are they going to do with a combustible player like Artest and a slimmer bench?

I don't know, maybe I'm just being overly-optimistic as I'm a Kobe hater.

[edit] I'm still going under the impression that Lamar just goes to the Heat without a s&t being performed.

I for one hope you're right. I also hope we come out on top against the Lakers when we play them this season. Last year all our games against them were close I have a feeling we can take them this year especially if they lose Odom and have a weaker bench

Robillion
07-29-2009, 02:13 PM
Spurs
Lakers
Mavs
Denver
Portland
New Orleans
Rockets/Clippers/Warriors

Im going off what I think the seeds will be at the end of the year. And I tell you what.. it was hard for me to put the4 Mavs at three right now. I think any of the teams 4-7 could make a run for that spot as well. It really depends on a lot. Now if Odom stays and/or we get a quality starting center, then this whole thing changes.

Windmill360
07-29-2009, 03:19 PM
The hommerism is overflowing the forum bathtub. Dallas is usually never as good as we expect. See last years mock standings.

I put Dallas around 6-7 with 5 and 4 being within reach.

I always lower my expectations. Last year I had Dallas at 8, and it took as the whole season to barely crack 6.

rabbitproof
07-29-2009, 04:37 PM
Due to our age, we probably are a #4 or so for the regular season. I think we can expect our top dogs to miss a few more games than say Denver or LA. Maybe on par with SA.

That said, if we're healthy, the playoffs, I think it can go anyways between SA/Dal/Den with LA one step on everybody without Odom and three steps ahead with Odom.

xavier
07-30-2009, 12:48 AM
If we can get a damn true center we will have a chance at being in the elite rankings.

MavsFanFinley
07-30-2009, 11:05 AM
Lakers
Spurs
Dallas
Denver
Portland
New Orleans
Jazz
Warriors

sefant77
07-30-2009, 11:16 AM
Lakers (with Odom), Spurs
Mavs, Nuggets, Blazers, Lakers (without Odom)
Hornets, Jazz (with a crappy Boozer dumping)
#8 open to a lot (Clippers, Suns etc)

Justin Credible
07-30-2009, 11:41 AM
Question: Why do people seem to not respect Memphis at all? It seems like they've been ready to explode anytime now.

I'm not saying they're going to be title contenders or anything, but I definitely think that a nice playoff run is due for them.

sefant77
07-30-2009, 12:23 PM
Question: Why do people seem to not respect Memphis at all? It seems like they've been ready to explode anytime now.

I'm not saying they're going to be title contenders or anything, but I definitely think that a nice playoff run is due for them.

Zach

Flacolaco
07-30-2009, 12:45 PM
The hommerism is overflowing the forum bathtub. Dallas is usually never as good as we expect. See last years mock standings.

Yup. And what else can we expect?

This thread was started as some sort of self esteem boosting exercise because someone was sitting around thinking of ways they could reassure themselves about their favorite basketball team. So a thread was started that is basically a "homer" magnet, and the kool aid and good feelings came rushing in.

Let's all high five.

Dirkadirkastan
07-30-2009, 12:50 PM
All this Spurs ass-kissing is disgusting.

sefant77
07-30-2009, 01:07 PM
All this Spurs ass-kissing is disgusting.

Its called respect (IF they stay healthy)

fluid.forty.one
07-30-2009, 01:18 PM
Yup. And what else can we expect?

This thread was started as some sort of self esteem boosting exercise because someone was sitting around thinking of ways they could reassure themselves about their favorite basketball team. So a thread was started that is basically a "homer" magnet, and the kool aid and good feelings came rushing in.

Let's all high five.

Which teams are better and why?

The teams that were ahead of us last year were: Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, Houston and Portland.

I think it's fair to say that we would have passed Houston without even making any moves. I think we've made better and more significant moves than the Blazers and Nuggets. How is suggesting that we might be better than those 3 teams homerism? and I certainly don't think the other teams have done much to pass us, except maybe NO but I think I made my prediction before they made those moves.

Mavs ahead of the Spurs is kind of a toss-up IMO.

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 01:31 PM
I'm sure I'll get blasted for what I'm about to say and will no doubt have loads of childish comments thrown my way, but here goes...

I can understand why most Mavs fans would feel confident when it comes to the Mavs matching up with the Spurs. Let's face it, Dallas had the advantage in several mis-matches because of players like Bowen, Oberto, Thomas, Bonner, and Finley playing huge minutes. Every single one of those players were pretty much useless the last few years, and most were one dimensional players. Look at what Josh Howard did with Finley guarding him. I could of done a better job defending him than Finley did. But all that being said, the Mavs matched up well against the OLD Spurs team. The one that was old, slow, and severely beat up with injuries last year. Manu missed most of the year, Parker missed some and was exhausted at the end of the year trying to carry all the load, and Duncan played injured the entire second half of the season. I honestly didn't think SA could beat any of the West play-off teams except UTA and NO in a 7-game series. Just wasn't their year, and yet they still won 54 game and their division. (not too shabby for having a "bad" year). DAL beat them fair and square. Like Pop, just not enough firepower.

So what did they do this offseason?? Got rid of the dead weight. Out went Bowen, Oberto, and Thomas, in came Jefferson. RJ is a HUGE upgrade because he can play both offense and defense. Not a defensive stopper by any means, but he's athletic and quick enough to stay with all the other athletes out there. Then they got McDyess. Now while he is up there in age, he still brings someone who can score, rebound, and defend. That's more than Oberto and Thomas could ever do. They also drafted Dejuan Blair, who looked pretty good in summer league, and is one of the best rebounders from this year's draft. They also have Mahinmi, a 6'11 C who's young and athletic. Again, he can bring alot more than Oberto or Thomas.

Another move they made that went practically unnoticed is the signing of Marcus Haislip. This guy is super athletic, and can step back and shoot 3's. He was pretty good in Europe, and while I don't expect him to be a star or anything, I do think he will be a good quality contributor. He's quick and athletic, and can bring a heck of alot more than Bonner ever dreamed of. Bonner and Finley may still be on this team (at least until they get traded), but I strongly doubt either of them sees much playing time this season with the depth the team has, unless it involves garbage time in blow-outs.

So while it is true DAL matched up well agaisnt SA in the past, this is definitely NOT the same Spurs team as before. This one will be more versatile, athletic, and quicker. They also won't go through these 5-6 minute droughts where they won't be able to score a point like in the past. Does it make them that much better than DAL?? I don't necessarily think so because they also made moves such as getting Marion. But it also means DAL won't be dominating SA like some of you have been talking about.

Ok, open the floodgates and let the insults fly. I know not everyone on here acts like a 10 year old, and some can actually discuss such topics like civilized adults. and then there's those that can't.

Nowitzki4President
07-30-2009, 01:36 PM
We do beat the Spurs in the depth department though, by far. Just something to think about.

I'm not one of those people that think we'd dominate them. But out of 7, I'd take the Mavs with no hesitation.

Dirkadirkastan
07-30-2009, 01:40 PM
Ok, open the floodgates and let the insults fly. I know not everyone on here acts like a 10 year old, and some can actually discuss such topics like civilized adults. and then there's those that can't.

Actually, I think you're going to get a lot of ass-kissing from Mav fans that overuse the word "homer". Which would be ironic, since you're a Spurs fan making hypothetical arguments about untested players.

LonghornDub
07-30-2009, 01:41 PM
Dallas consistently beats SA because of Dirk. SA has never had, and still does not have, someone who can guard him consistently one on one.

I'm not saying other Mavs players haven't stepped up, but the reason the Mavs beat the Spurs is because the Spurs just can't handle Dirk. Nothing the Spurs have done this offseason will change that. A couple years ago, we had to listen to Spurs fans crow for an entire season about how Francisco freaking Elson was some sort of Dirk-stopper. It seems almost every year, the Spurs think they've finally made the move that will slow down the German. Every year, they've been wrong.

Are the Spurs better than they were last year? Absolutely. Do the Mavs still present a tremendous match up problem for them? Absolutely.

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 01:46 PM
We do beat the Spurs in the depth department though, by far. Just something to think about.

I'm not one of those people that think we'd dominate them. But out of 7, I'd take the Mavs with no hesitation.

Ok, how do they beat them in depth by far? I see the Spurs starting TP, Mason, RJ, TD, and Mahinmi. 2nd unit is Hill, Manu, Haislip, McDyess, Blair. That still leaves Finley and Bonner, who were both starters last year (albeit not good ones) and Ratliff. I don't see how DAL is THAT much deeper than SA?

And if you think Gooden is gonna be all that and a bag of chips, do realize that Pop chose to play Bonner over Gooden in Game 5, and didn't play Gooden AT ALL. I think someone posted in one of the threads that if Pop can find a way to use you, you got problems. After all, he does have a great coaching career, 4 rings, and 100 playoff wins to his resume. So if your depth relies on Gooden and Thomas, guess you're entitled to your opinion.

Robillion
07-30-2009, 01:46 PM
Not very many people on here have been talking about "dominating" the Spurs this coming year. In fact, I am hard pressed to remember anyone saying such a thing.. if it was mavs777 or dmack then.. well just ignore them.

I think most of us on here understand the Spurs got waay better this offseason. Most around the league believe they won they summer so far (though Toronto looks to have taken that title IMO). But, I think the Mavs still have a move or two up their sleeves come playoffs 2010. Right now I rank the Mavs below the Spurs in terms of regular season record, but I will still be confident playing them in the playoffs even with our current lineup. With a quality center addition I wouldn't worry at all.

Nowitzki4President
07-30-2009, 01:54 PM
You can say that the Spurs have a better bench that the Mavs with a straight face?

I'm assuming you have Manu on the bench due to injury issues?

The Mavs have JJB, Roddy Beaubois, Terry, Ross, Thomas, Gooden, Hollins and Singleton (Pending FA moves) and most likely, they're going to pick someone up with the BAE (Been hearing McCants).

iella
07-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Hold up, guys. With their new acquisition of Devean George, (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?entry_id=44570) the Warriors are clearly ready to contend with the best in the West.

badfish22
07-30-2009, 02:33 PM
Hold up, guys. With their new acquisition of Devean George, (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?entry_id=44570) the Warriors are clearly ready to contend with the best in the West.

Holy sh*t, he brings championship swagger!

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 04:38 PM
1) I agree the Spurs don't have an answer for Dirk. But for that matter, what team does? At the same time, you could say that the Mavs don't have an answer for a healthy Duncan. Teams usually don't have an answer for guys like Dirk, TD, Kobe, ect.

2) I NEVER said that SA had a better bench that DAL, and I also never denied that DAL has a deep bench. I was simply pointing out that SA is also pretty deep, but I didn't see how DAL's bench was "BY FAR DEEPER" than SA's as you put it. That's it. I think both teams are very deep and both will be contenders with the moves they have made in the off-season.

LonghornDub
07-30-2009, 04:58 PM
1) I agree the Spurs don't have an answer for Dirk. But for that matter, what team does? At the same time, you could say that the Mavs don't have an answer for a healthy Duncan. Teams usually don't have an answer for guys like Dirk, TD, Kobe, ect.

The Mavs' capacity to deal with Duncan without completely altering their normal gameplan far exceeds the Spurs' capacity to do the same with Dirk. As interesting as it was to see Pop throwing elbow triple-teams at Dirk and having guys like Bonner guard him toward the top of the key, rather than positioning between him and the basket, it very clearly revealed how much of a problem he causes. Also, I feel I don't need to point out the problem with referring to a "healthy Duncan."

The Spurs haven't done anything to address that major deficiency. The Mavs, meanwhile, brought in a guy who has had some very good success guarding Parker in stints, who since 2007 has been the most problematic Spurs player for the Mavs. As much as the Spurs have improved this offseason, I'm not convinced at all that they've done much to rectify their deficiencies against the Mavs' roster. If things stand pat, I think we will continue to see that the Mavs play the Spurs better than anyone else in the league.

Justin Credible
07-30-2009, 05:37 PM
The Spurs haven't done anything to address that major deficiency. The Mavs, meanwhile, brought in a guy who has had some very good success guarding Parker in stints, who since 2007 has been the most problematic Spurs player for the Mavs. As much as the Spurs have improved this offseason, I'm not convinced at all that they've done much to rectify their deficiencies against the Mavs' roster. If things stand pat, I think we will continue to see that the Mavs play the Spurs better than anyone else in the league.

Who is this? The reason I ask is because the only reason I don't put much stock into the Spurs being Manu-less is because I'd say that Tony Parker's absolute slaughterhouse against the Mavs in the paint made up for it. I mean c'mon, Parker might as well have started charging rent to the Mavs for his paint. He averaged 28.6 PPG against us in that series, and that's not exactly the easiest thing in the world.

Still, I think that the Spurs are ahead of the Lakers as it stands right now and that they'll actually be the team to beat next season. I hate saying that because I hate the Spurs, but again.. give respect where it's due.

Underdog
07-30-2009, 05:41 PM
The Mavs, meanwhile, brought in a guy who has had some very good success guarding Parker in stints, who since 2007 has been the most problematic Spurs player for the Mavs.
Who is this? The reason I ask is because the only reason I don't put much stock into the Spurs being Manu-less is because I'd say that Tony Parker's absolute slaughterhouse against the Mavs in the paint made up for it. I mean c'mon, Parker might as well have started charging rent to the Mavs for his paint. He averaged 28.6 PPG against us in that series, and that's not exactly the easiest thing in the world.

Still, I think that the Spurs are ahead of the Lakers as it stands right now and that they'll actually be the team to beat next season. I hate saying that because I hate the Spurs, but again.. give respect where it's due.

Shawn Marion was hired to kill Tony Parker...

Justin Credible
07-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Shawn Marion was hired to kill Tony Parker...

Ah, I wasn't aware that he was quick enough to defend Parker. For a second there I thought that he was talking about Ross, to which I was going to demand proof (not because I didn't believe it, rather because I'd like to see it).

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 06:04 PM
Is this the same Shawn Marion who always seemed to "disappear" every time the Spurs played the Suns a few years ago?? If you think he's gonna slow down Parker, suit yourself.

I don't deny the Mavs had their advantages over the Spurs the last few years. I do think they did a decent job on Dirk the first few games of this year's playoffs, but Finley couldn't do a thing against Howard. Howard and Bass were the reason they won Game 1. No answer whatsoever for those 2, and that was because our we had useless bigs like Bonner, Oberto, and Thomas, and slow wing players like Finley and Bowen. There was no way they were gonna win a play-off series against ANYBODY with those guys.

I don't know the exact numbers (and I will definitely put some research into it) but I'd be curious to know what the head-to-head record is between these 2 teams. Always seems that the regular season series is tied 2-2 almost every year. As many times as the Mavs have won in SA, The Spurs have also won alot of games at the AAC. Look back at the 06 playoffs, what I believe to be one of the greatest playoff series ever. That series went 7 games, several games went to OT, and either team could have won. If Manu doesn't commit that dumb foul, who knows what happens? These 2 teams have a great rivalry and the games are always close. Look at the scores from the last 5 years or so. It's usually single digits between these 2.

Dirkadirkastan
07-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Shawn Marion was hired to kill Tony Parker...

Tim Thomas was hired to shove his way through a group huddle of opponents on his way to the free throw line. (Does anyone else remember this?)

Dirkadirkastan
07-30-2009, 06:12 PM
but Finley couldn't do a thing against Howard. Howard and Bass were the reason they won Game 1.

There was this one really weird play in Game 1, when Josh Howard went up for a shot, but instead he passed the ball to Dampier. Then Damp actually caught the ball and managed to make the lay-in.

I mean, if you can't stop THAT...

Underdog
07-30-2009, 06:13 PM
Is this the same Shawn Marion who always seemed to "disappear" every time the Spurs played the Suns a few years ago??

How does someone "disappear" on defense when they're playing for D'Antoni's Suns?

mavs777
07-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Odom is staying with L.A :(

DirkFTW
07-30-2009, 06:26 PM
How does someone "disappear" on defense when they're playing for D'Antoni's Suns?

I guess you could cherry-pick the other basket the whole time...

Mavsfan4ever
07-30-2009, 06:56 PM
Odom is staying with L.A :(

Doesn't matter we still have the better bench and once we get a decent center it's game on.

mavs777
07-30-2009, 07:21 PM
Doesn't matter we still have the better bench and once we get a decent center it's game on.

Hopefully

MavsFanFinley
07-30-2009, 07:41 PM
No one has an answer for Dirk so I don't get the argument that the Spurs somehow failed this off season because they didn't get someone who could.

I know I'd feel better with players like McDyess, Haislip, Mahinmi, and maybe even Blair guarding Dirk than Bonner, Thomas, and Oberto trying. If nothing else at least those guys have height and mobility out on the permeter that the others didn't.

Hell, even if Pop elected to try Jefferson (like he did with Finley, Bowen, and Udoka) on him the Spurs have more effective big men guarding the rim than they did before. Instead of just Duncan waiting for him they now have those other bigs I mentioned plus Ratliff.

But I don't see Jefferson being used on Dirk when he can guard Howard now instead of Finley. That's such a huge upgrade. He can play both ends of the floor and provides more than just 3 point shooting like Finley did.

The Spurs needed to get younger and more athletic. They also needed to find a permeter player on the wing who could score and defend and find some bigs who could help Duncan inside with banging and rebounding. I think they achieved all of those things and could perhaps still have a move or two still left.

Hill has proven himself and made Pop come out and say he made a mistake by not playing him more last season.

It's yet to be seen how that translates to the floor but with a coach like Pop and a healthy big 3 (another big question mark) I think they'll make it work.

Which roster would you rather go with?

Bonner, Thomas, Oberto
Duncan, Bonner, Thomas
Finley, Bowen, Williams
Mason, Ginobli, Hill, Hairston
Parker, Mason, Hill

or

McDyess, Mahinmi, Ratliff
Duncan, Blair, Haislip, Bonner
Jefferson, Finley, Williams
Mason, Ginobli, Hairston
Parker, Hill

Mavsfan4ever
07-30-2009, 08:14 PM
We went 2-2 against the Spurs in the regular season last year. With both teams upgrades should we expect the same this year or will one team be more dominate this year?

LonghornDub
07-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Is this the same Shawn Marion who always seemed to "disappear" every time the Spurs played the Suns a few years ago?? If you think he's gonna slow down Parker, suit yourself.

I don't deny the Mavs had their advantages over the Spurs the last few years. I do think they did a decent job on Dirk the first few games of this year's playoffs, but Finley couldn't do a thing against Howard. Howard and Bass were the reason they won Game 1. No answer whatsoever for those 2, and that was because our we had useless bigs like Bonner, Oberto, and Thomas, and slow wing players like Finley and Bowen. There was no way they were gonna win a play-off series against ANYBODY with those guys.

I don't know the exact numbers (and I will definitely put some research into it) but I'd be curious to know what the head-to-head record is between these 2 teams. Always seems that the regular season series is tied 2-2 almost every year. As many times as the Mavs have won in SA, The Spurs have also won alot of games at the AAC. Look back at the 06 playoffs, what I believe to be one of the greatest playoff series ever. That series went 7 games, several games went to OT, and either team could have won. If Manu doesn't commit that dumb foul, who knows what happens? These 2 teams have a great rivalry and the games are always close. Look at the scores from the last 5 years or so. It's usually single digits between these 2.

Disappear? Yeah, he "disappeared" in 2007 right around the same time David Stern suspended the Suns' best player for the pivotal 5th game. Up until that point, including the crucial Game 4 in SA, Marion had enjoyed tremendous success guarding Parker in stints. If you mean to say he disappeared by not scoring a lot of points, I don't believe that was what we were talking about.

Then of course, the next year rolls around and Marion is gone. What happens? Parker drops 40 some odd points in Phoenix in game 3 and essentially ends the series.

Also, let me just dispel a common misperception for about the 100th time: that 2006 series, to the extent it "almost" went to the Spurs in 7 games, also "almost" went to the Mavs in 5, when Dirk rushed an easy putback that would have ended the series, and "almost" went to the Mavs in 6, when the Mavs' (then) second-best player was suspended for a game. If you want to talk about near-misses, that series was far, far closer to being Mavs in 5 than it was to Spurs in 7 (especially given that the Mavs ultimately whooped the Spurs' asses for the entirety of that overtime period).

As for your comments about this year's playoffs, you do understand that guys like Bass and Howard were ultimately put into a position to beat the Spurs because the Spurs were forced to abandoned their decade-long defensive philosophy of man-up defense on the perimeter with Duncan anchoring the middle, right? We've all watched the Spurs long enough to know that whacky triple teams and odd defensive positioning are not their MO. The Spurs were forced to do something completely different than what they normally do because Dirk eats them for breakfast otherwise. That's why you have guys like Howard beating up on guys like Finley. And that hasn't changed.

LonghornDub
07-30-2009, 08:26 PM
No one has an answer for Dirk so I don't get the argument that the Spurs somehow failed this off season because they didn't get someone who can.

Plenty of teams find ways to effectively mitigate Dirk, at least in stretches. T-Mac did it in 2005. Haslem did it in 2006. S-Jax did it in 2007.

The Spurs, meanwhile, have nothing, short of throwing 4 defenders at him.

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 09:14 PM
Disappear? Yeah, he "disappeared" in 2007 right around the same time David Stern suspended the Suns' best player for the pivotal 5th game. Up until that point, including the crucial Game 4 in SA, Marion had enjoyed tremendous success guarding Parker in stints. If you mean to say he disappeared by not scoring a lot of points, I don't believe that was what we were talking about.

Then of course, the next year rolls around and Marion is gone. What happens? Parker drops 40 some odd points in Phoenix in game 3 and essentially ends the series.

Also, let me just dispel a common misperception for about the 100th time: that 2006 series, to the extent it "almost" went to the Spurs in 7 games, also "almost" went to the Mavs in 5, when Dirk rushed an easy putback that would have ended the series, and "almost" went to the Mavs in 6, when the Mavs' (then) second-best player was suspended for a game. If you want to talk about near-misses, that series was far, far closer to being Mavs in 5 than it was to Spurs in 7 (especially given that the Mavs ultimately whooped the Spurs' asses for the entirety of that overtime period).

As for your comments about this year's playoffs, you do understand that guys like Bass and Howard were ultimately put into a position to beat the Spurs because the Spurs were forced to abandoned their decade-long defensive philosophy of man-up defense on the perimeter with Duncan anchoring the middle, right? We've all watched the Spurs long enough to know that whacky triple teams and odd defensive positioning are not their MO. The Spurs were forced to do something completely different than what they normally do because Dirk eats them for breakfast otherwise. That's why you have guys like Howard beating up on guys like Finley. And that hasn't changed.

You know, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. The Spurs should just bow down to the superiority of the Mavs Dynasty. Such an amazing franchise that has won...what...2 division titles, and 1 Western Conference championship. If only the Spurs could just catch a glimpse of such success. Real shame.

ChampsX4
07-30-2009, 09:19 PM
As for your comments about this year's playoffs, you do understand that guys like Bass and Howard were ultimately put into a position to beat the Spurs because the Spurs were forced to abandoned their decade-long defensive philosophy of man-up defense on the perimeter with Duncan anchoring the middle, right? We've all watched the Spurs long enough to know that whacky triple teams and odd defensive positioning are not their MO. The Spurs were forced to do something completely different than what they normally do because Dirk eats them for breakfast otherwise. That's why you have guys like Howard beating up on guys like Finley. And that hasn't changed.

This again supports what I said about players like Bonner, Finley, Bowen, Oberto, and Thomas. They were useless, to the point of making Pop have to change his entire defensive game plan because these guys just couldn't cut it. Just as you so adequately pointed out. And again, I don't think the roster they have just assembled will have to resort to triple teams like they were forced to last year. Will they shut doen Dirk? Heck no. But they can go back to playing man defense, and not depend heavily on a bunch of has-beens or never-was like the players I mentioned above.

Mavsfan4ever
07-30-2009, 10:38 PM
Was checking out the Spurs Talk boards and this Spurs fan said he sees us as the dark horse to win it all. I continued read the post and could not help but laugh at the Spurs and Lakers fans who think Portland has a better shot then we do.

mavs777
07-30-2009, 11:44 PM
Was checking out the Spurs Talk boards and this Spurs fan said he sees us as the dark horse to win it all. I continued read the post and could not help but laugh at the Spurs and Lakers fans who think Portland has a better shot then we do.

why???????????

I don't waste my time on douche canoes

MavsFanFinley
07-30-2009, 11:51 PM
Plenty of teams find ways to effectively mitigate Dirk, at least in stretches. T-Mac did it in 2005. Haslem did it in 2006. S-Jax did it in 2007.

The Spurs, meanwhile, have nothing, short of throwing 4 defenders at him.

That's such a small sampling though and it's not like they're exactly available.

We don't know whether Haislip, Mahinmi, or Blair could be effective on Dirk yet. But they can't be any worse than Oberto, Bonner, and Thomas who were all short and slow out on the perimeter.

Dirkadirkastan
07-31-2009, 12:57 AM
I've never heard of Haislip, Hairston, Mahinmi, or Blair, and I'm not going to give a rat's ass until they make their presence known on the court.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
07-31-2009, 03:05 AM
I guarentee one of these teams walks away with the trophy at the end of the season.

Lakers
Celtics
Cavs
Spurs
Mavs
Magic

(bold statement, huh) I put them in order of likelyhood that I think has the best chance. Although I pretty much tie us with the Spurs I put them above us since we haven't yet proven we can win it all and they have 4 times being the only reason. With a center upgrade such as Kaman and Camby I'll put us above the Spurs and the Cavs. I don't think this is fanboyish at all I think it's reasonable. I can't even consider any other team being a true contender (maybe the Nuggets?)

Mavsfan4ever
07-31-2009, 04:53 AM
why???????????

I don't waste my time on douche canoes

Complete and total boredom.

I was told on another message board that the Lakers will repeat because no one can beat them. This was obviously a young punk because even after I pointed out both Dallas and SA have made major upgrades this summer he comes back with who can beat LA once more.

antoinewalker
08-03-2009, 12:47 AM
wow, so the acquisition of shawn marion makes the mavs better than the spurs?

Dirkadirkastan
08-03-2009, 01:01 AM
This is going to be the most overrated Spurs team in pretty much ever.

Dtownsfinest
08-03-2009, 04:44 PM
Well it looks to me that all good teams lose to crappy ones occasionally. The Lakers somehow did manage to lose to Charlotte in both meetings last year.

They don't lose to them by 20 though. It seemed like that happened one too many times last season.

Dtownsfinest
08-03-2009, 04:46 PM
wow, so the acquisition of shawn marion makes the mavs better than the spurs?

Yea that's the mind boggling thing. I guess people felt this team was just a Shawn Marion away from being champions last season. I sure as hell hope so anyway.

This is going to be the most overrated Spurs team in pretty much ever.

Who's hyping them up lol? They contend every year and have what? 4 or 5 rings? They have the same core intact so that alone brings their name up in contender talks.

DirkFTW
08-03-2009, 04:46 PM
This is going to be the most overrated Spurs team in pretty much ever.

You're forgetting to include their four (4) championships. That obviously makes them the most underrated group of individuals in the history of the entire world.

Err........

DavidDaMonkey
08-03-2009, 05:56 PM
why???????????

I don't waste my time on douche canoes


I'm not sure what a douche canoe is, but its a fun phrase to say out loud.






Haha, you are all saying douche canoe right now.

mavs777
08-03-2009, 07:46 PM
LMAO, on sportsline a NO fan said there are only 3 contenders in the west NO, Spurs, and Lakers

fluid.forty.one
08-03-2009, 09:02 PM
wow, so the acquisition of shawn marion makes the mavs better than the spurs?

The Mavs were better than the Spurs last year so I don't see why a quality acquisition would make this year any different...

fluid.forty.one
08-03-2009, 09:03 PM
LMAO, on sportsline a NO fan said there are only 3 contenders in the west NO, Spurs, and Lakers

who cares?

MavsFanFinley
08-04-2009, 12:02 AM
I wouldn't call the Spurs team overrated. They have a lot to prove though.

I mean who would you rather have to go up against: Bonner and Finley or McDyess and Jefferson?

They contend every year but it's not the role players so much in question anymore. It's the health of the big 3.

Mavsfan4ever
08-04-2009, 05:24 AM
Didn't you know NO ranked higher then Dallas? End sarcasm aimed at NO fans.