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View Full Version : Can you imagine Portland if they went for Durant versus Oden!


dude1394
02-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Yikes...they would be good.

sefant77
02-16-2010, 11:01 AM
Durant wouldnt develop so fast with Roy being the man and demanding the ball.

I love Oden and i hope he can have some great injury free years but yes...they had Joel and could had went after Durant

Dirkenstien
02-16-2010, 11:52 AM
A Durant / Roy duo would be pretty scary both in talent and potential.

I also wonder how good Portland may have been if Darius Miles didn't come back and reinstate his salary on their books ... (thread worthy?) ;)

alby
02-16-2010, 01:38 PM
So my post became a new thread, sweet!

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
02-16-2010, 02:32 PM
Having Durant/Roy would of been a win/win situation, if they didn't work out together they could of just traded one of them for a better fit. I think the Greg Oden pick has forever changed the "always go big" stance in the NBA. (or at least it should)

nikeball
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
This is a week old but not everyone has seen it. Mcmillan still defends the Oden over Durant pick.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=126584069220276200


McMillan: ‘It was the right pick for us’

Nate McMillan laughs when I approach him about a certain subject.

“I knew that question was coming,” he says when asked if he ever has second thoughts about Portland selecting Kevin Durant instead of Greg Oden with the first pick of the 2007 NBA draft.

“No, because we knew both of those guys were really good,” the Blazer coach says. “Honestly, we did what was right. I still feel it’s right. Kevin is playing great basketball, and it was two good choices we had to pick from. I haven’t had second thoughts about it.”

A lot of other people have, though, including a major portion of the Blazer faithful, who have 20-20 vision in hindsight, with Oden’s two knee surgeries in his three pro seasons in full view.

Meanwhile, Durant is tearing it up in Oklahoma City. The 6-9 forward, who will play in his first All-Star game on Sunday, is averaging 29.7 points – a smidgeon behind league-leading LeBron James’ 29.8 figure – and showing why Portland General Manager Kevin Pritchard took plenty of time before deciding on the 7-foot Oden over Durant.

On Tuesday night, Durant displayed his array of talents, shooting the Blazers up for 33 points and 11 rebounds in an 89-77 victory. Meanwhile, Oden is on the mend again.

Doesn’t mean the Blazers should have taken Durant, McMillan insists.

“You look at who you have,” he says. “We had a Durant-like player in Brandon Roy. What we needed was a big. If Brandon’s not here, maybe you look at something different. But with the team we had and what was available, Greg Oden was the right pick.”

Still, it’s hard not to think about what might have been had the Blazers gone against conventional wisdom and taken the sweet-shooting forward out of Texas.

“Man, him and Brandon Roy together?” whistles Mark Bryant, the ex-Blazer forward now an assistant coach for Oklahoma City. “That would have been unbelievable.

“This kid is something special, and he’s still learning the tricks of the game. Once he gets a couple more years under his belt, watch out.”

Scottie Brooks – incidentally, my pick for NBA coach of the year at this point – smiles when asked if he ever thinks about what might have been had the Blazers taken Durant, leaving Seattle (the franchise moved to Oklahoma City last season) to settle for Oden.

“I don’t,” he says, “but the Blazers made the right decision for them, and it was an easy decision for us.”

Brooks was a backup point guard in the NBA for a decade. One of his teammates in Cleveland was center Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who missed most of three of his first four seasons with injuries but hasn’t had a serious injury in the nine years since then.

“That usually happens,” Brooks says. “Very rarely is a guy injured his entire career.

“You can’t control the injury side of things. (Oden) is still going to come back and be a terrific player; he just has to get over that hump.”

Brooks gives credit to McMillan for the way he has handled the avalanche of injuries to his players this season.

“It’s amazing how Nate has been able to keep it together. It isn’t like the guys getting hurt are players like … me,” he says, laughing. “They have terrific talent. Adding that big (in Oden) is going to help them in the long run. They have some great pieces around him. And Nate has done a heck of a job for them to continue to stay in games and win games. That’s not easy to do while losing all those players.

“I really admire Nate for not using it as a crutch. Hopefully their fans realize and appreciate that. Just wait until the players come back.”

Durant says he is happy that he wound up in his current situation. In their first year in Oklahoma City last season, the Thunder were 23-59. This season, they are 30-21 and in the thick of the playoff hunt.

“It worked out for me,” he says. “Basically, I’m the leader. I don’t know what I’d have been in Portland, but I’m the leader of this team, one of the core guys for a team on the rise. I like it that way – kind of like starting at the bottom and trying to get to the top.”

How has it been living in Oklahoma City?

“It’s different,” he says, adding quickly, “I love it, though. The fans are wonderful, sort of like they have here in Portland. We’re sold out almost every game. It’s like you’re in a college town, since we’re the first pro team there.”

There are those who are convinced Portland was wrong in taking Oden, that there were warning signs in pre-draft physicals that the Blazers should have heeded. Pritchard swears that’s not the case.

Team needs? Some see that as the same logic the Blazers used when they passed on Michael Jordan and chose Sam Bowie with the second pick in the 1984 draft. It’s not a fair comparison, though. Bowie had missed two seasons at Kentucky with leg problems. Oden didn’t have that kind of history.

Still, it’s a debate that will linger, and grow if Oden continues down Injury Lane.

“Every time they meet throughout their careers, they’ll be tied together, especially here,” McMillan says. “But I still feel it was the right pick for us.”

dalger
02-16-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm not sure they would be on the Lakers' level right now, but having Roy, Durant and Aldridge as a young and extremely talented big 3 would be very promising to say the least. So far, it's safe to say that OKC is much better off with Durant than Portland is with Oden (excluding their business area...).

Lor20
02-16-2010, 11:06 PM
oden is obviously a bust. always injured and when not he gets into foul trouble... I don't think he'll ever have a breakout season.

Dtownsfinest
02-18-2010, 02:33 AM
Isn't Oden like 22 years old? IF he becomes as good as everyone thinks he will be the Blazers are going to be dominat regardless. Oden and Lamarcus manning the paint for atleast 10 years? Blazers made the right move. Always take the potential dominant big man over the potential dominant 3. Durant is a beast and I wouldn't sleep on Oklahoma either. They are building themselves a pretty solid team as well with Jeff Green, Westbrook, Durant and Harsden.

Five-ofan
02-18-2010, 07:56 AM
the issue with that is oden was never going to be great. He was never going to be anything more than damp with better hands. Dont get me wrong, damp with better hands is a good player but if hed have never gotten hurt, hed have been a 12/12/2 guy. No offense but when you have a choice between a potential 12/12/2 guy and a potential 30/8 guy you take the 30/8 guy. It was stupid when they did it, and its still stupid. And honestly trying to argue it wasn't is even stupider.

sefant77
02-18-2010, 11:19 AM
Roy/Durant (LMA) and just one ball would be the biggest issue.

Male30Dan
02-18-2010, 12:22 PM
the issue with that is oden was never going to be great. He was never going to be anything more than damp with better hands. Dont get me wrong, damp with better hands is a good player but if hed have never gotten hurt, hed have been a 12/12/2 guy. No offense but when you have a choice between a potential 12/12/2 guy and a potential 30/8 guy you take the 30/8 guy. It was stupid when they did it, and its still stupid. And honestly trying to argue it wasn't is even stupider.

You are SOOOO stupid to continue to compare him to Damp. Especially when Damp only did that shit once. He averages more blocks and 1 point less than your "best case - no injury" projection and he is playing 23 minutes with only 82 games of NBA experience. You really can stick to your guns sometimes despite everything telling you otherwise. Oden WILL put up an 18/12/3 line before he is 25 IF he can stay healthy from this point forward. I think he COULD have put up 20+/12-13/3-5 definitely without any of these knee injuries but it is what it is. Saying his highlight year is a 12/12/2 line without injuries and starter's minutes when he has all of that now minus the rebounds, (and 8.5 at that), and in only 23 minutes per game is just stupid. Really stupid.

Dtownsfinest
02-19-2010, 01:29 AM
the issue with that is oden was never going to be great. He was never going to be anything more than damp with better hands. Dont get me wrong, damp with better hands is a good player but if hed have never gotten hurt, hed have been a 12/12/2 guy. No offense but when you have a choice between a potential 12/12/2 guy and a potential 30/8 guy you take the 30/8 guy. It was stupid when they did it, and its still stupid. And honestly trying to argue it wasn't is even stupider.

The only thing stupid is comparing Dampier to Oden's potential.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 03:10 AM
You are SOOOO stupid to continue to compare him to Damp. Especially when Damp only did that shit once. He averages more blocks and 1 point less than your "best case - no injury" projection and he is playing 23 minutes with only 82 games of NBA experience. You really can stick to your guns sometimes despite everything telling you otherwise. Oden WILL put up an 18/12/3 line before he is 25 IF he can stay healthy from this point forward. I think he COULD have put up 20+/12-13/3-5 definitely without any of these knee injuries but it is what it is. Saying his highlight year is a 12/12/2 line without injuries and starter's minutes when he has all of that now minus the rebounds, (and 8.5 at that), and in only 23 minutes per game is just stupid. Really stupid.

The reason he gets so many blocks is because he goes after every shot. The reason he commits so many fouls is because he goes after every shot. The reason he only plays 23 minutes is because he commits so many fouls. If he ever stops going after everything, he wont block as many shots. You cant just say if he played more blah blah blah without understanding the reason he doesn't play more. Also, the last time he was healthy was high school so yes even if they aren't necassarily related, his injury history does matter.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 03:17 AM
Also since you are so enamored with his 11.1/8.5/2.3 line, this is damps line in his second season 11.8/8.7/1.7. Sometimes people are what the are.

FINtastic
02-19-2010, 06:37 AM
the issue with that is oden was never going to be great. He was never going to be anything more than damp with better hands. Dont get me wrong, damp with better hands is a good player but if hed have never gotten hurt, hed have been a 12/12/2 guy. No offense but when you have a choice between a potential 12/12/2 guy and a potential 30/8 guy you take the 30/8 guy. It was stupid when they did it, and its still stupid. And honestly trying to argue it wasn't is even stupider.

This is a crazy statement. Greg Oden's per-36-minutes stats this season (according to basketball-reference.com) were 16.7 pts, 12.8 rbs, 3.4 blks, and 60.4% shooting. If you don't think he could have exceeded 12/12/2 if he had never had to deal with those leg injuries, you're on something. I realize that he has had issues with foul trouble, but some of that has to do with dealing from the loss of athleticism from the knee and working his way through what he can and can't do. And some of it is from being a young kid. I don't know if he'll ever overcome this injury bug, or if he'll ever regain all of his athleticism if he does, but Oden was certainly a talent. His ceiling was way higher than the measley 12/12 (or Damp 2.0) you set his ceiling at, especially considering his productivity was well above that level in his second season. Sure he had foul trouble, but he's not the first center to ever have to learn to deal with that.

FINtastic
02-19-2010, 06:42 AM
Also since you are so enamored with his 11.1/8.5/2.3 line, this is damps line in his second season 11.8/8.7/1.7. Sometimes people are what the are.

You leave out the fact that Damp needed ~33% more minutes, which gave his numbers a nice bump. Not to mention his field goal shooting that year wasn't on the same planet as Oldman's (44.5% to 60.4%), meaning he was getting more shots than Oden to put up those points. In fact, Damp's FG% was terrible his first five seasons - he didn't even hit 41% from the field in four of his first seasons, which is remarkably bad for a center.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 06:56 AM
Im done with this argument for now.(when he continues to suck i reserve the right to bump it) The stupidity levels people will go to defend Oden is just moronic. The last time he was a great player was in high school.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 06:58 AM
This is a crazy statement. Greg Oden's per-36-minutes stats this season (according to basketball-reference.com) were 16.7 pts, 12.8 rbs, 3.4 blks, and 60.4% shooting. If you don't think he could have exceeded 12/12/2 if he had never had to deal with those leg injuries, you're on something. I realize that he has had issues with foul trouble, but some of that has to do with dealing from the loss of athleticism from the knee and working his way through what he can and can't do. And some of it is from being a young kid. I don't know if he'll ever overcome this injury bug, or if he'll ever regain all of his athleticism if he does, but Oden was certainly a talent. His ceiling was way higher than the measley 12/12 (or Damp 2.0) you set his ceiling at, especially considering his productivity was well above that level in his second season. Sure he had foul trouble, but he's not the first center to ever have to learn to deal with that.

his per 36 minute numbers are also 6 fouls per game.

FINtastic
02-19-2010, 07:13 AM
his per 36 minute numbers are also 6 fouls per game.

Yes, that is quite an eyesore but the dude is practically a rookie. I give him time to figure these things out, especially after a major injury that kind of changes his style of play going into his rookie season. Maybe he never ends up cracking the puzzle on how to play without fouling, but he wouldn't be the first big man that had foul troubles at the beginning of their career only to figure out later how to overcome them (see Parish, Robert).

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Also since you are so enamored with his 11.1/8.5/2.3 line, this is damps line in his second season 11.8/8.7/1.7. Sometimes people are what the are.

How many minutes was that in? Ah yes, 32.4per game. Nice evaluation.

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 10:52 AM
Im done with this argument for now.(when he continues to suck i reserve the right to bump it) The stupidity levels people will go to defend Oden is just moronic. The last time he was a great player was in high school.

Of course you are done, you are getting your ever loving ass handed to you.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Of course you are done, you are getting your ever loving ass handed to you.

I changed my mind. I was right on this the same way ive been on all 3 of the hugely unpopular stances i took at the time(Barry zito isnt an ace which i backed down from but shouldnt have, Reggie Bush will be a monumental bust, Greg Oden is vastly overrated and is erick dampier with hands.) I have another question for you since you cant seem to get over ignoring that oden cant play more minutes because he fouls so damn much and likely wouldnt put up the same numbers if he toned down his aggressiveness to prevent fouls. If he gets hurt all the damn time playing so few minutes what makes you think playing more would ever allow him to stay healthy?

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 11:19 AM
Just to further drive this nail in, see the two links and focus on the years I mention below:

Erick Dampier in 99-00 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/erick_dampier/career_stats.html)

Greg Oden in 09-10 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/erick_dampier/career_stats.html)

Now, since we want to be as close to possible to make this an apples to apples comparison, see the following similarities:

1) Oden played 23.9 mpg in 09-10; Dampier played 23.6 mpg in 99-00
2) Oden averaged 4 fpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged 3.9 fpg in 99-00
3) Oden played 21 games in 09-10; Dampier played in 21 games in 99-00
4) Oden was coming off of a microfracture surgery on his knee; Dampier missed 30 games with a knee injury

Now, on to what makes the comparison pretty foolish...

1) Oden averaged 11.1 ppg in 09-10 on 61%; Dampier averaged 8 ppg in 99-00 on 41%
2) Oden averaged 8.5 rpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged 6.4 rpg in 99-00
3) Oden averaged 2.3 bpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged .7 bpg in 99-00
4) Oden shot 77% from the FT line; Dampier shot 53%
5) Oden has played 82 total games up to this point; Dampier had played 225
6) Oden has MUCH more talent around him in 09-10 as Dampier was on a horrible team


When compared apples to apples, (or at least as close as one can get), I think it makes it pretty obvious that HANDS are not the only thing separating Erick Dampier from Greg Oden. Another stupid foolish comment from someone looking for a wow factor with his posts rather than looking at the facts.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Just to further drive this nail in, see the two links and focus on the years I mention below:

Erick Dampier in 99-00 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/erick_dampier/career_stats.html)

Greg Oden in 09-10 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/erick_dampier/career_stats.html)

Now, since we want to be as close to possible to make this an apples to apples comparison, see the following similarities:

1) Oden played 23.9 mpg in 09-10; Dampier played 23.6 mpg in 99-00
2) Oden averaged 4 fpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged 3.9 fpg in 99-00
3) Oden played 21 games in 09-10; Dampier played in 21 games in 99-00
4) Oden was coming off of a microfracture surgery on his knee; Dampier missed 30 games with a knee injury

Now, on to what makes the comparison pretty foolish...

1) Oden averaged 11.1 ppg in 09-10 on 61%; Dampier averaged 8 ppg in 99-00 on 41%
2) Oden averaged 8.5 rpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged 6.4 rpg in 99-00
3) Oden averaged 2.3 bpg in 09-10; Dampier averaged .7 bpg in 99-00
4) Oden shot 77% from the FT line; Dampier shot 53%
5) Oden has played 82 total games up to this point; Dampier had played 225
6) Oden has MUCH more talent around him in 09-10 as Dampier was on a horrible team


When compared apples to apples, (or at least as close as one can get), I think it makes it pretty obvious that HANDS are not the only thing separating Erick Dampier from Greg Oden. Another stupid foolish comment from someone looking for a wow factor with his posts rather than looking at the facts.

Ignoring the stupidity of the rest of your arguments for the time being, how would you like the blazers to get Oden more minutes after he fouls out?

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 11:28 AM
Ignoring the stupidity of the rest of your arguments for the time being, how would you like the blazers to get Oden more minutes after he fouls out?

How did Damp, (you know, the guy you compared him to), manage to get up to 32+ when he was averaging .1 less fouls per game that year??? He will improve in that area the same way many other players before him have.

But please, now that that comment has been made, feel free to no longer ignore the stupidity of the rest of my arguments. I enjoy making you look like a complete ass.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 11:49 AM
How did Damp, (you know, the guy you compared him to), manage to get up to 32+ when he was averaging .1 less fouls per game that year??? He will improve in that area the same way many other players before him have.

But please, now that that comment has been made, feel free to no longer ignore the stupidity of the rest of my arguments. I enjoy making you look like a complete ass.

Oden has averaged 3.9 fouls in 21 minutes and 4.0 in 24 mpg(23.9 rounds to 24 not 23 though 23 would actually be worse) Damp averaged 2.1 fpg in 14 mpg, 3.4 in 32.4, 3.3 in 28.3, and then 3.6 in 23.6. Damps was a spike, not a trend. Also if you havent noticed, damps never been a consistent 32 or 33 mpg player over his career. If you are saying oden might have one year where he has a 32 mpg 15 rpg 13 rpg 2.5/3 bpg season and then revert back to being a 25mpg 10/10/2 guy then im not saying thats impossible but he wont ever consistently average 32-36 mpg which is why using numbers based on that is foolish.

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Oden has averaged 3.9 fouls in 21 minutes and 4.0 in 24 mpg(23.9 rounds to 24 not 23 though 23 would actually be worse) Damp averaged 2.1 fpg in 14 mpg, 3.4 in 32.4, 3.3 in 28.3, and then 3.6 in 23.6. Damps was a spike, not a trend. Also if you havent noticed, damps never been a consistent 32 or 33 mpg player over his career. If you are saying oden might have one year where he has a 32 mpg 15 rpg 13 rpg 2.5/3 bpg season and then revert back to being a 25mpg 10/10/2 guy then im not saying thats impossible but he wont ever consistently average 32-36 mpg which is why using numbers based on that is foolish.

Oden has also been likely compensating from a knee that needs to get stronger. You know, like Dampier must have been doing the one year he hurt his knee bad, (though not nearly as bad). If he can remain healthy and improve as he matures, (again, definitely not unheard of), his fouls will go down and his minutes will increase.

Nice to see your stupid 12/12/2 prediction has now actually lowered to 10/10/2. Comical is an understatement.

Five-ofan
02-19-2010, 12:38 PM
Oden has also been likely compensating from a knee that needs to get stronger. You know, like Dampier must have been doing the one year he hurt his knee bad, (though not nearly as bad). If he can remain healthy and improve as he matures, (again, definitely not unheard of), his fouls will go down and his minutes will increase.

Nice to see your stupid 12/12/2 prediction has now actually lowered to 10/10/2. Comical is an understatement.

I think hell average around 12/12/2 in his prime if everything goes well from here. Not inconceivable he could have a 15/13/3 spike year and a 10/10/1.5 year in a down year while maintaining a 12/12/2 talent level

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 12:55 PM
I think hell average around 12/12/2 in his prime if everything goes well from here. Not inconceivable he could have a 15/13/3 spike year and a 10/10/1.5 year in a down year while maintaining a 12/12/2 talent level

Well then let's just agree to disagree and move on. No way can we actually get anywhere with this until it plays out. I was wrong about Zito. I could be wrong about this. Like you said to me when I pointed out how you were wrong in the past, "I have been wrong many other times and will be wrong again in the future"; however, I honestly believe this will play out the way I am saying it will if he can stay healthy. A big if, but not out of the realm of possibilities at all.

I think his career high will be something like 18/13/4+ and I think he has already suffered a career low. With that said, it is likely his overall average will be somewhere close to 16/12-13/3-4. That is, again, 2 points off of Mr. Howard, and will guarantee him a lot of All-Star appearances. Is it as flashy as Durant? Of course not. Looking back, did they make the right decision? Well, if you know then what you know now, of course not. But his potential was scary good and you always prefer a dominant big over a dominant wing.

We shall see in 3-5 years what his career looks like. If his injuries heal and he becomes something like a 10/10/2 guy or even a 12/12/2 guy, I will say I was wrong, no questions asked and no effort given to prove otherwise. If he ends up averaging what I think he will, I hope you are quick to say the same. If his injuries continue and that is why he couldn't either prove he was a 12/12/2 guy or my projections, that is a sad situation for basketball and for this argument.

Dirkadirkastan
02-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Here's a nice stat for you: 32 of Male28Dan's last 37 posts have been in one of the two Greg Oden threads.

Male30Dan
02-19-2010, 06:03 PM
Here's a nice stat for you: 32 of Male28Dan's last 37 posts have been in one of the two Greg Oden threads.

Oh I am sorry, was there another request made such that I need to start a new thread or post more equally? If you don't agree with something I say try to actually explain why. Comments like "Greg Oden Sucks" makes you look stupid on a few different levels.

Dirkadirkastan
02-19-2010, 06:30 PM
Just noting how obsessively defensive you are over an irrelevant Portland Trailblazer that never steps on the court: you're now up to 36 of the last 41.

And Greg Oden still sucks.

Kidd Karma
02-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Oden's defense is ahead of his very, very raw offensive game. This part is teachable, he has to stay on the court because of his defense, so drop steps, fadeaways, hook shots, it's all footwork that can be mastered when he's healthy....big question mark.