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View Full Version : Stern: If they don't like [the reffing] they can get a job somewhere else


Usually Lurkin
04-22-2010, 11:27 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlCpfwOYduvTKjXGkX9IN6y8vLYF?slug=ap-stern-officiating

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP)—NBA commissioner David Stern is tired of coaches and players griping about the officiating, and challenged them Thursday to “make my day” by continuing to complain during the rest of the playoffs.

The league handed out fines of $35,000 apiece on Thursday to Boston Celtics forward Rasheed Wallace(notes), Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy and Orlando forward Matt Barnes(notes) for publicly criticizing officials. A week earlier, Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson was fined $35,000 for suggesting that Oklahoma City Thunder star Kevin Durant(notes) received preferential treatment from NBA referees.

Speaking before the Thunder hosted the Lakers, Stern said such comments were “corrosive” to the product that the league is putting on the floor. He said he understands why coaches try to work the officials through the media, but that the result is such comments undermine consumer confidence in the league’s product.


“So, our coaches should be quiet because this is a good business that makes them good livings and supports a lot of families,” Stern said. “And if they don’t like it, they should go get a job someplace else. I don’t mean to be too subtle.”

Stern said he’s often let such comments go “because of the pressure-cooker that is the NBA playoffs over the years.”

“But when you hear a Chicago coach say that this game was lost because NBC wants an extra game and you hear a New York coach say, ‘What are you going to do? Jordan gets all the calls,’ it sounds like a lot of fun,” Stern said.

“Or you hear a Stan Van Gundy do what he wants to say and then the players join in, we know inside the community what it’s meant to do and sort of, ‘OK, it’s playoff time. Everyone’s crazy,’ so back off.”

Stern said he regrets not coming down harder earlier on those who griped about officiating.

“I wish I had it to do all over again,” he said. “Starting 20 years ago I’d be suspending Phil and (former Lakers and Miami Heat coach) Pat Riley for all the games they play in the media. You guys know that our referees go out there and knock themselves out and do the best job that they can, but we’ve got coaches who will do whatever it takes to try to work them publicly.

“If I had it to do again … I would stop it and the price wouldn’t be a modest $35,000 fine. It would be whatever a day’s pay is and then two days’ pay and then a week’s pay.

“And if someone wants to try me in the rest of this playoffs, you know, make my day. Because the game is too important and I don’t think that the people who trash it are respecting it, and we’ll do what we have to do—the players and coaches alike—because they give the impression to our fans that the referees somehow have an agenda.”

Stern said he crossed paths with Jackson on Thursday night at the Ford Center and said there were no hard feelings, at least from the commissioner.

“I think that Phil’s a great coach,” Stern said. “He’s a friend of many years. I just came by and said, ‘Hi,’ and he said, ‘I don’t like you today.’ And I said, ‘I like you.’

fluid.forty.one
04-22-2010, 11:31 PM
lol

"Stop calling us out!"

Dirkadirkastan
04-23-2010, 12:03 AM
What about Pop?

It's amazing how those Riverwalk whiners never draw any fines or technical fouls.

Flacolaco
04-23-2010, 12:08 AM
He can pretend if he wants to, but the game, in a way that is unlike any other sport, is played waaay outside the lines in some of these cases.

That being said...he's kind of right, no matter how wrong it is. It's his league. If people don't like it they can go start their own league. Which of course they won't do.

EricaLubarsky
04-23-2010, 12:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs
I'm so ronery!

Usually Lurkin
04-23-2010, 12:53 AM
That being said...he's kind of right, no matter how wrong it is.
well, he'd be more right if he'd fine the refs instead!

edit: -- and if he'd stop using them to control the playoffs in the first place!!!

AO41
04-23-2010, 08:23 PM
I actually agreed with a lot of what he said there

Budapest Maverick
05-03-2010, 08:39 AM
"because they give the impression to our fans that the referees somehow have an agenda"

Absolutely ridiculous. I would have agree with a lot of what he says, but implying that it's only the players and coaches that made us fans believe there is something wrong, it's just a slap in the face. He just want us to pay for tickets, for the league-pass, and believe that there is no bias, that Donaghy was lying about everything, the Mavs-Heat, and the Kings-Lakers series weren't rigged, and everything is all right?

bernardos70
05-03-2010, 10:59 AM
As it is, I am not buying League Pass anymore, I'm not going to games anymore, I'm done with the BS that is NBA refereeing. Stern, your message might've been to your league, but I'm taking notice: you ain't seeing any of my money. B*tch. Fine me, ass-hat.

MavsX
05-03-2010, 12:38 PM
stern is an idiot. Rather than try and figure out a way to make the officiating better he just tells everyone to be quiet, because you're making us look bad.

How about you take the proper steps to improve the officiating and figure out what the root of the problem is. Do we need another ref. on the sidelines who can watch the instant replys to make sure the call is correct; without wasting any unnecessary time?

Some of these big name refs. shoudn't be officiating the big games because they have already come under fire. Their reputation is ruined. Get somebody else in there. Switch the teams up and mix and match the new with the old refs as to discourage any of the guys from being buddies. Add a guy on the side with veto powers. Etc.

Bottom line do whatever you can to improve the officiating that way you can look back and say i fixed the issue. Once the issue is fixed, who can argue and complain then???

Nash13
05-03-2010, 12:40 PM
I think stern should be fine for saying arrogant statements like that. I don't think it's fair players/coaches/owners get fined for voicing their opinions, but he doesn't.

Like berns, i've cooled down on the NBA the last couple years. I agree it is the hardest sport to officiate. Football is all contact, baseball in pretty much no contact, and in hockey as long as you don't ram someone in the boards or use your stick illegally, you're allowed to hit. I partially blame the players for flopping. Watching that Spurs/Mavs series made me sick. With or without contact, those spurs players, particularly Ginobli and Jefferson, were just flopping around everywhere. They should've enforced that flopping rule.

fluid.forty.one
05-03-2010, 02:01 PM
As it is, I am not buying League Pass anymore, I'm not going to games anymore, I'm done with the BS that is NBA refereeing. Stern, your message might've been to your league, but I'm taking notice: you ain't seeing any of my money. B*tch. Fine me, ass-hat.

That's funny.. when I saw this thread was bumped from the main page I was coming in here to say something similar. Hey Stern, how bout "If we (THE FANS) don't like it, we can stop buying your goddamn product"

He's such an ass. Wow. Ya lets not investigate and make sure we're putting out the best product possible.

EricaLubarsky
05-03-2010, 03:14 PM
I wish I could watch the NCAA with regularity and interest (other than March Madness). The officiating is so much better and doesn't suffer from "playoff ball" or "superstar treatment". I know a lot of people that have switched to college ball because they just can't stand how "WWF" the NBA has gotten.

Dirkadirkastan
05-03-2010, 03:31 PM
I liked the replacement refs we had during the preseason. Everyone was getting screwed over equally.

EricaLubarsky
05-03-2010, 03:44 PM
I think the issue is that Stern has an ongoing policy of wanting the refs to be "activist refs" that make the game more flashy, while the NBA really has a problem with ref personalities. Many of the refs have developed "styles/tendencies" as well as players/teams that they like/dislike. Joey Crawford is a perfect example of this. If we got all new refs, we'd probably fix half the problem but Stern would still reward those refs that made his product more marketable with "and-ones" and blocking fouls vs offensive, etc

On the other side, getting rid of Stern wouldnt get rid of all the crazy refs and we'd still see Crawford and Kennedy threatening and demeaning players. "Bam! Right there!", "Do you want to fight?", etc etc

Usually Lurkin
05-03-2010, 03:55 PM
Football is all contact, baseball in pretty much no contact,.
What I love about baseball is that they don't even pretend to be objective. Whatever the umpire says is correct. They could do electronic batter's boxes and slow-motion replay on every play (You are not going to slow down a game of baseball. The very laws of physics are against you on that.). But they'd rather have the human element and they're up front about it. Can you imagine if Stern said, "That wasn't a missed call. There was no foul there because no foul exists until Joey Crawford says it was a foul."

kg_veteran
05-03-2010, 04:06 PM
What I love about baseball is that they don't even pretend to be objective. Whatever the umpire says is correct. They could do electronic batter's boxes and slow-motion replay on every play (You are not going to slow down a game of baseball. The very laws of physics are against you on that.). But they'd rather have the human element and they're up front about it. Can you imagine if Stern said, "That wasn't a missed call. There was no foul there because no foul exists until Joey Crawford says it was a foul."

The difference with baseball, of course, is that by and large an umpire's strike zone is his strike zone. He doesn't start the game out calling a pitch at the knees a strike and then suddenly make a drastic change in the middle innings.

mcsluggo
05-03-2010, 04:22 PM
He can pretend if he wants to, but the game, in a way that is unlike any other sport, is played waaay outside the lines in some of these cases.

That being said...he's kind of right, no matter how wrong it is. It's his league. If people don't like it they can go start their own league. Which of course they won't do.

I don't think that your point is right at all. THere are HUGE barriers to entry in this industry, (vis forming another league). Essentially the major sports teams have state-sanctioned monopolies, and frankly they should be regulated as such.

CadBane
05-03-2010, 04:37 PM
stern is an idiot. Rather than try and figure out a way to make the officiating better he just tells everyone to be quiet, because you're making us look bad.

How about you take the proper steps to improve the officiating and figure out what the root of the problem is. Do we need another ref. on the sidelines who can watch the instant replys to make sure the call is correct; without wasting any unnecessary time?

Some of these big name refs. shoudn't be officiating the big games because they have already come under fire. Their reputation is ruined. Get somebody else in there. Switch the teams up and mix and match the new with the old refs as to discourage any of the guys from being buddies. Add a guy on the side with veto powers. Etc.

Bottom line do whatever you can to improve the officiating that way you can look back and say i fixed the issue. Once the issue is fixed, who can argue and complain then???


THIS. In NO other business would someone like Dan Crawford not have been investigated. It's like a cashier constantly coming up with a short register with no consequences. Stern is such an arrogant crook that he petrified/too stubborn to admit that the officiating is flawed and is tainted, so rather than DO anything, he tells you to quit complaining about it. What a joke.

Fidel
05-03-2010, 08:32 PM
At the half: 4 fouls on the Cavs, 16 on the Celtics. 18-5 FT´s. LeBron with 0 fouls as allways. Which is one of the most amazing things. Look through the gamelogs and how many times LeBron finishes with 0 or 1 foul. It must be because he´s so amazing.

Edit: 17-4 now, but the Celtics are still winning.

Fidel
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Taken from espn boards:

I thought it was absurd Lebron only has 1 foul per game in the series against the Celtics, so I dug a little deeper.

Lebron averages just 1.6 fouls per game- his maximum fouls in a game this year was FOUR (not even a minute at risk to foul out in over 3000 minutes this year, including playoffs) - and he only got hit with four fouls in THREE GAMES! They were the season opener against the C's (10/27), then on 11/18 and 11/27. That's right. He hasn't gotten whistled for a fourth foul in a game SINCE NOVEMBER 27TH. OVER FIVE MONTHS. Cleveland's record in those games:
0-3. And all this for a guy that constantly drives to the bucket, gets inside enough to grab over 7 boards a game and who averaged 1.64 steals and just shy of 1 block per game. I've watched a lot of Lebron and never noticed it until this series as he constantly avoids the whistle for his aggressive defense. These numbers seem highly suspect considering the level of energy he plays with...fair or foul?

I think the explanation is simple: LeBron is too amazing to foul.

Dirkadirkastan
05-04-2010, 04:28 PM
Old article, but it analyzes this in more detail:

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/01/26/lebron-james-fouls/

Fidel
05-04-2010, 11:44 PM
Old article, but it analyzes this in more detail:

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/01/26/lebron-james-fouls/
Nice find, thanks. All of this makes watching NBA basketball near impossible for me. Never been a fan of the WWF. I prefer UFC.

Zki41
05-05-2010, 12:08 AM
I wish flopping was a $35,000 dollar fine. If saying something 'politically incorrect' about the reffing is worth that hefty of a fine, then abusing the system should merit a similar fine.

I also personally want something to be done about the charges that people like Derek Fisher or Manu constantly draw. I think offensive fouls are an important part of the game, but I think it's ridiculous for there to be a fast break, the guy with the ball pretty much as a clear path, and then a guy like Derek fisher will take a charge, and then there is an offensive foul where 2 seconds before that it would be an easy bucket as a reward from a turnover. It's like you are driving your car, and a guy is hanging on a tree branch next to the street, and he runs and jumps off and slams into your car. I mean granted, it's a bad analogy because it's the pedestrians fault, but you would still have the "blood" on your hands (getting a foul called on you).

dude1394
05-05-2010, 08:14 AM
I expect as soon as the dirkster hangs 'em up, I'll hang 'em up as well. I have never seen a business abuse the trust of it's customers like this one. A complete lack of transparency ( I think one time I heard this year that they said they blew a call) and a gulag-like punishment system for any who gripe about it.

One of the reasons he doesn't want the coaches griping to the refs is because.....cue the music...IT WORKS. They do listen and they do change their calls, everyone watching this silly game sees it. But instead of fixing the refs, he tries to fix the customers.

MavsX
05-05-2010, 08:27 AM
I expect as soon as the dirkster hangs 'em up, I'll hang 'em up as well. I have never seen a business abuse the trust of it's customers like this one. A complete lack of transparency ( I think one time I heard this year that they said they blew a call) and a gulag-like punishment system for any who gripe about it.

One of the reasons he doesn't want the coaches griping to the refs is because.....cue the music...IT WORKS. They do listen and they do change their calls, everyone watching this silly game sees it. But instead of fixing the refs, he tries to fix the customers.

yup

bernardos70
05-05-2010, 10:42 AM
I expect as soon as the dirkster hangs 'em up, I'll hang 'em up as well. I have never seen a business abuse the trust of it's customers like this one. A complete lack of transparency ( I think one time I heard this year that they said they blew a call) and a gulag-like punishment system for any who gripe about it.

Might not be too far behind you. Maybe not quit watching it altogether, but it'll be reduced drastically. And the Mavs will still be my team. But my interest will drop off significantly.

92bDad
05-05-2010, 11:03 AM
Yet, we are all guilty of supporting this corrupt league.

Perhaps it's a faith that the reality of what we see is not really there and that the league is fair? Then reality sets in and we feel like we allowed ourselves to get screwed watching these referee's manage and control the outcomes of the games.

These are some of the best athletes in the world, but they are also pawns in "Adolphs" fantasy league.

Someday, I will have the strength to break my "Sports" addiction...or at least my Mavs addiction.

Thank you Stern for ruining a good thing!!!

CadBane
05-10-2010, 10:48 PM
http://northstationsports.com/uncategor ... day-night/

Former NBA Referee, Tim Donaghy, has gone on record recently stating that he is certain that David Stern and the NBA will do whatever they can to ensure a Lakers/Cavs NBA Finals. Being a die-hard NBA fan for my entire life, I have tried not allowed myself to believe a lot of what’s been claimed about the NBA fixing games. The evidence this post season, however, is undeniably suspect.

Through three game’s played in the semi-finals, LeBron James has played 123 minutes (41, 43, 39) and only been called for three personal foul’s. In three game’s the Celtics have been called for 21 more fouls than the Cavaliers (78-57).

Coincidence? Well, lets look at the officiating crew for each game of the series.

Game One:

Rush, Spooner, Phillips

Celtics 25 personal foul’s / Cavs 17 personal fouls

Game Two:

D. Crawford, Bavetta, Malloy

Celtics 31 personal fouls / Cavs 16 personal fouls

Game Three:

Salvatore, Mauer, Zarba

Celtics 22 personal fouls / Cavs 24 personal fouls

We all know that officiating can control the flow of the game in more ways than just personal foul’s called. As Tim told me yesterday, officials can control the game by controlling turnovers, technical’s, etc.

What may even be more suspect is that Tim Donaghy was given 14 post-season game’s to predict based solely on the officiating crew’s assigned and his knowledge of league initiatives.

Donaghy record? 13-1

dude1394
05-10-2010, 11:25 PM
http://northstationsports.com/uncategor ... day-night/

Former NBA Referee, Tim Donaghy,

What may even be more suspect is that Tim Donaghy was given 14 post-season game’s to predict based solely on the officiating crew’s assigned and his knowledge of league initiatives.

Donaghy record? 13-1

That dude should go to vegas...er...ooops....

Usually Lurkin
05-10-2010, 11:54 PM
link fix:
http://northstationsports.com/uncategorized/is-tim-donaghys-claim-that-the-nba-wants-lebron-to-beat-the-celtics-find-out-monday-night/