PDA

View Full Version : Is Kobe Bryant hurting Lakers late


mavs777
03-11-2011, 05:17 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-110311&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dholling er_john%26page%3dPERDiem-110311

i dont have insider if anyone would post the article i would be very appreciative, give you much rep :)

dirno2000
03-11-2011, 05:24 PM
Remind me again: Which team has the late-game issues?

Let's suppose I had told you before Thursday's Lakers-Heat game that one of the teams had been struggling in late-game situations, had issues about which player was taking the shots down the stretch and played an "Xbox" offense consisting mostly of one-on-one play. And suppose I hadn't told you which one of the teams it was, and instead let you figure it out by watching.

You would have seen the last three minutes of the game and told me, very confidently, that the team in question was the Lakers.

While the stories about Kobe Bryant's postgame workout dominate the airwaves, I'm a little distressed to hear that he wasn't working on, say, passing. As my favorite (or favourite) Canadian columnist Bruce Arthur pointed out on Twitter, the fact that Bryant was shooting alone after the game is the perfect metaphor for the way he played during it, especially in the last three minutes.

There's no way to sugarcoat this: Kobe's me-on-five routine at the end of L.A.'s 94-88 loss to Miami cost the Lakers the game. Instead of complaining about not getting a call on one of the most ridiculous shots of the bunch, a contested 3-point jack with a fresh shot clock at the 1:06 mark, Bryant might instead have pondered how he could have gotten an easier look for himself or, God forbid, one of the other four guys out there with him.

And after the game, it was still about him, with his grandiose hey-look-at-me-working-out show succeeding brilliantly in sucking all the attention from his fit of self-indulgence at the end of the game. (News flash: American Airlines Arena has a practice court. I've been on it. It's nice and big and everything. But it's tough to herd all the media up there to fawn over your postgame workout.) If I were Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum, I would have made an equally big show of going out to the court and standing helplessly in the paint calling for the ball while Bryant practiced his shots, just to add an extra element of realism.

Maybe I'm being too harsh here. It was one bad game in March that will mean, essentially, nothing once the playoffs start a month from now. But it continues a disturbing trend of Bryant playing like an MVP for the first 46 minutes of every game, then flinging wild hero shots at the end of them.

It hasn't hurt the Lakers more this season largely because their crunch-time defense has been so good. For instance, in L.A.'s last white-knuckle game, in Oklahoma City two weeks ago, the same thing happened. Down the stretch Bryant shot the ball five straight times -- all tough, contested shots -- and made only one of them. But because L.A. held the Thunder scoreless over the final 2:01, the Lakers prevailed.

But L.A. didn't score a single point in the final 2:26 on Thursday night, with Bryant's line in that stretch including two turnovers and three wild misses (check out how far away he was on this one). The game was tied at the time, but Kobe's direct hand in five straight empty trips was why Miami won.

Like I said, it's one game. The Lakers still sit atop the Power Rankings and everyone still fears facing them in the playoffs. And Bryant's insatiable desire to dominate is, at most times, a good thing. But if there's a fly in the ointment for the Lakers' playoff hopes, it ironically lies in their best player's insatiable need to play the hero.

ceelowdream
03-13-2011, 06:50 PM
Kobe is generally flawless. I think we'd take him here in Dallas.

mtd20
03-21-2011, 02:11 AM
yeah, he really hurt the Lakers against Portland tonight...

mtd20
03-23-2011, 02:41 AM
Yeah...once again, he hurt his team tonight agisnt the suns......

mavsman
03-23-2011, 04:24 AM
Yeah, he helped them a lot by shooting an amazing 3-11 in the OTs. If that's Terry, this whole board demands for him to be traded.

mtd20
03-23-2011, 11:49 PM
Thats because some board members on here over-react like tens year olds instead of adults. As for overtime, last time I checked his go ahead three pointer, good defense, and clutch bucket to put them at 139 points in the 3rd OT helped close the game (something Terry probably would not have done, never the less, when was the last time Jason posted a stat line of 42-12-9).

mavsman
03-24-2011, 05:46 AM
See, that's what selective perception can do for you. Of course Kobe's superawesome and stuff, yet he still followed his 11-19 in the first 47 minutes with 3-12 in the last min of reguation and the ots, aka when the game was on the line. That's the exact opposite of "being clutch".
For further reference: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/26698/kobe-bryant-delivers-for-everybody

mtd20
03-26-2011, 08:54 AM
Once again, 7 straight points down the stretch to help the Lakers close out the Clippers last night.

Either way....you lost all credibility by using the Henry Abbott card. Anyone in the states knows that he is driven by sensationalized reports that continuously praise LeBron James (his biggest nut hugging fan) and takes every opportunity to bash Kobe Bryant on a regular basis, while generally using skewed and biased stats to back up his claims (i.e., John Hollinger...) Either way Germany, although I do respect your opinion (just not most of the media hacks on ESPN), I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

However, this gentleman seems to make some valid points to the contrary….

Nearly every year in the NBA’s annual survey, the general managers of each team have predominantly voted Kobe Bryant as being the best clutch player in the league. Yet, Kobe haters like to bring up stats taken from sites like 82games.com that show he only makes about 25 percent of game winning shots. They use this statistic to “prove” that Kobe is not that good in the clutch.

The problem with this conclusion is that it is short-sighted and misses a lot of other facts.
For instance, the same website shows that per minute played, Kobe is among the best in the NBA in all-around production in the clutch including points, rebounds, assists and defensive plays.
What is counted as a game-winning shot is only when there are 24 or fewer seconds remaining in the game. What is not counted are go-ahead shots that Kobe has made to give the Lakers the lead with 40 seconds left in regulation—even if the shot happens to be the last points scored in the game.

The statistic also doesn’t count the amazing clutch shots Kobe made in contests like in Game 6 of last year’s Western Conference Finals against Phoenix. His play was so impressive that Suns’ coach Alvin Gentry said that he has never seen any player more impressive than Kobe Bryant. Considering Gentry has been around to see players like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan. That is quite a compliment!

While Kobe’s conversion rate of potential game-winning shots is low, one would be hard-pressed to find any NBA legend that was able to convert at a high rate. This is because team defenses clamp down in the final seconds of close games and it is rare that a player is going to get a wide-open (and therefore higher percentage) shot.

One more fact should be considered. While game-winning stats have not been documented well until the past decade or two, one should note that Kobe Bryant has made more game-winners than Michael Jordan over the course of his career.
Michael Jordan, whom I consider to be the very best NBA player of all-time, made 26 (if one includes when he played for the Washington Wizards). Kobe Bryant has made 27.
In fact, I have yet to come across any documentation that any player in NBA history has made more game-winners. While this doesn’t necessarily mean Kobe is more clutch than Jordan was, it is certainly impressive.

Few players in the league even want to take potential game-tying or winning shots. Of the select few that want to, none of them can create their own shot as easily as Kobe Bryant, nor are any of them as big of a cold-blooded assassin.
This is why in the 2008 Olympics on a team that had loads of talent (players such as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Deron Williams), it was Kobe that came through in the close fourth quarter that led Team USA to victory against Spain in the gold medal game.

Unless one thinks they know better than the GMs, coaches and players in the league, it still appears that Kobe is among the best clutch players in the NBA….by Ethan S.

Mavs999
03-31-2011, 06:44 PM
Kobe is generally flawless. I think we'd take him here in Dallas.

we wish... kobe to dirk = money in the bank....

Mavsfan4ever
03-31-2011, 08:01 PM
Kobe desires the spotlight which makes him a ball hog. Kobe needs to remember basketball is a team sport.

spreedom
03-31-2011, 09:42 PM
As much as people like to say that Kobe's slowing down or has lost a step, I still think he's right in the discussion as being the best player in the league. I don't think you can go wrong with Kobe, Wade, LeBron, or Dwight Howard.

Mavs999
04-01-2011, 01:49 AM
. I don't think you can go wrong with Kobe, LeBron, durant, or Dwight Howard.

fixed

spreedom
04-01-2011, 09:32 AM
How about we let Durant win a playoff series first? kthx

Mavs999
04-01-2011, 10:58 AM
How about we let Durant win a playoff series first? kthx

negative...dflop is a pos.... would much rather have durant than dflop

spreedom
04-01-2011, 07:30 PM
negative...dflop is a pos.... would much rather have durant than dflop

Longterm yes, but if I had to build a team around one player for one season I'd take Wade. He is much more complete as an all-around player today.

mavs777
04-10-2011, 11:56 PM
Longterm yes, but if I had to build a team around one player for one season I'd take Wade. He is much more complete as an all-around player today.

Complete in which way? That he is inconsistent defensivly? He can play pretty good defense when he puts his mind to it, but that isn't too often. He gambles way too much defensivley.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 12:52 AM
This thread is just crazy talk.

Kobe just took the Lakers and yanked them into #2.

Too many people are caught up in how you win a game instead of the result.

82games hypes up Lebron and Wade as such "efficient" clutch players but as you can all see they lost like 20 close games this year.

Watch this video to enjoy all the Lebron and Wade "clutch" moments this year. There's ALOT of clutch in this ...lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

Meanwhile, "Inefficient" Kobe is undefeated in OT this year and yet again hit a clutch shot to bring home the #2 seed and a date with the Hornets sans David West.

There are no style points, a win is all that matters. Winning is clutch, not hurting the team.

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 12:54 AM
This thread is just crazy talk.

Kobe just took the Lakers and yanked them into #2.

Too many people are caught up in how you win a game instead of the result. So many stats saying Lebron and Wade are such "efficient" clutch players but as you can all see but they lost like 20 close games this year.

"Inefficient" Kobe is undefeated in OT this year.

That is clutch, not hurting the team.He singlehandedly got the Lakers down three with nine seconds to go. Yes, singlehandedly. One made free throw, on a technical, and everything else nowhere near the bottom of the basket.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 01:02 AM
He singlehandedly got the Lakers down three with nine seconds to go. Yes, singlehandedly. One made free throw, on a technical, and everything else nowhere near the bottom of the basket.

Kobe also won the game.

If the Lakers had lost, I would agree with you.

Lebron and Wade are VERY efficient in losing close games.

In the end I take the inefficient win over over the very efficient losing.

Lebron and Wade are 82Games "clutch superstars" but just look at all these "clutch" moments to see the reality of efficiency vs winning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 01:08 AM
Kobe also won the game.

If the Lakers had lost, I would agree with you.

Lebron and Wade are VERY efficient in losing close games.

In the end I take the inefficient win over over the very efficient losing.

Lebron and Wade are 82Games "clutch superstars" but just look at all these "clutch" moments to see the reality of efficiency vs winning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11Don't know what to tell you, bro. It took him seven chances to do something positive for the team, in clutch time. That rate ain't goin' get you very far.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 01:38 AM
Don't know what to tell you, bro. It took him seven chances to do something positive for the team, in clutch time. That rate ain't goin' get you very far.

Well if you believe efficient losses delivered by Lebron and Wade are better then inefficient wins delievered by Kobe, we can just agree to disagree.

In the meantime, I truly wish the Mavs well in taking care of the Blazers. I'd want no part of the Blazers.

Then we'll see how inefficient Kobe hurts the Lakers against the Mavs in a couple of weeks.

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 01:47 AM
Well if you believe efficient losses delivered by Lebron and Wade are better then inefficient wins delievered by Kobe, we can just agree to disagree.

In the meantime, I truly wish the Mavs well in taking care of the Blazers. I'd want no part of the Blazers.

Then we'll see how inefficient Kobe hurts the Lakers against the Mavs in a couple of weeks.First off, good buddy, I have no opinion on Lebron and Wade at all, as it relates to this thread. Not sure how that got started. Now, what I do believe is that inefficiency is generally a bad thing. No, I don't dress it up in pretty clothes, such as "inefficient win." Inefficient is simply less desirable than efficient, is the way I roll.

The more I think about it, I'm wondering if I missed a made shot by Kobe. I know I had him for six misses down the stretch, and of course that made three, but I'm wondering if I have neglected to include that long two, where his toe was on the line.

No matter, even if so. Two out of eight isn't a whole lot better than one out of seven. It's just so remarkable how the entire rest of the Lakers team shuts it down entirely when it's late and it's time for Kobe to shoot (or, miss six out of seven).

nowhereman
04-14-2011, 01:54 AM
Kobe is the most overrated late-game scorer in the history of the NBA

The guy will screw his team over possession after possession and make one good play out of 10, and that's all people care about. If he didn't have Pau Gasol or Ron Artest there to bail him out for his terrible late game play last season, especially in game 7 against Boston or in game 5 against PHX, the world would better know him for the fraud he is.

nowhereman
04-14-2011, 02:05 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310410013&period=4

2:49 left, Lakers down 2

Kobe Bryant bad pass (Thabo Sefolosha steals a lazy cross court pass by Kobe 30 feet from the basket)

1:28 left, lakers down 4

Kobe Bryant steps out of bounds (Kobe drives into traffic instead of passing the ball inside, and falls harmlessly out of bounds without passing)

1:00 left, lakers down 6

Kobe Bryant gets an offensive rebound, and then airballs a corner 3

0:40 left, Lakers down 6

Kobe fouls Russell Westbrook on a 3 from the left wing, Russ makes the shot, lakers down 10

0:29 left, Lakers down 10

Kobe Bryant lost ball (Kevin Durant steals)

...

SO CLUTCH. This was one of the most laughably bad performances I've ever seen in the 4th quarter, and to think it came from the same lameass and contrived guy who is the most overrated "clutch" player in the history of the league makes it even funnier.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 02:09 AM
No matter, even if so. Two out of eight isn't a whole lot better than one out of seven. It's just so remarkable how the entire rest of the Lakers team shuts it down entirely when it's late and it's time for Kobe to shoot (or, miss six out of seven).

That's exactly it.

Kobe shoots 2-8 and ends up being the hero.

Then you watch the heroes of 82games like Lebron and Wade and this is what happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

So at the end of the Day, Kobe is undefeated in OT; while the 82games Superstars are something like 2-18 in close games.

I believe "inefficient wins" > "efficient losses"

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 02:14 AM
That's exactly it.

Kobe shoots 2-8 and ends up being the hero.

Then you watch the heroes of 82games like Lebron and Wade and this is what happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

So at the end of the Day, Kobe is undefeated in OT; while the 82games Superstars are something like 2-18 in close games.

I believe "inefficient wins" > "efficient losses"Well...wins are better than losses, I know that.

But I also know that inefficient play is more likely to lose than is efficient play.

You are doing a lot of after-the-fact reasoning here. What is the point? You don't have to tell me who won, when I can already see the final score.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 02:16 AM
You are doing a lot of after-the-fact reasoning here. What is the point? You don't have to tell me who won, when I can already see the final score.

Oh, I'm not trying to tell you anything.

I just posted in general and you replied to my post so I replied to your reply and you replied to my reply of your reply

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 02:26 AM
Oh, I'm not trying to tell you anything.

I just posted in general and you replied to my post so I replied to your reply and you replied to my reply of your replyYou misinterpreted that, evidently. What I said, in other words, was: What does it prove, wins or losses, when a guy played like ass, or didn't?

nowhereman
04-14-2011, 02:32 AM
Oh, I'm not trying to tell you anything.

I just posted in general and you replied to my post so I replied to your reply and you replied to my reply of your reply

big bag of nothing. it's nonsense reasoning like this which makes people think kobe is 'clutch.'

Pau was taking teams with less talent to 50 win-seasons while kobe was pouting in 4th quarters in first rounds, and missing the playoffs. Name 3 other players from the grizzlies teams other than pau that won 50 games. Jake Tsakalidis? Shane Battier? um... that's it? Meanwhile, Kobe is out there breaking apart a dynasty, getting accused of rape, missing the playoffs, intentionally throwing away elimination games against the Suns, and this is the guy that history will remember as a great player? What a load of garbage.

mavs777
04-14-2011, 02:56 AM
Mike Miller?

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 02:57 AM
big bag of nothing. it's nonsense reasoning like this which makes people think kobe is 'clutch.'

Pau was taking teams with less talent to 50 win-seasons

Pau never won a Playoff game without Kobe in 12 tries. A shut out even with a prime Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and James Posey.

Pau's team was a better cast than Kobe's Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko, etc.

mavs777
04-14-2011, 02:59 AM
Pau never won a Playoff game without Kobe in 12 tries. A shut out even with a prime Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and James Posey.

Pau's team was a better cast than Kobe's Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko, etc.

prime Stoudemire? HAHAHAHA I think you mean scrub near end of career

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:00 AM
You misinterpreted that, evidently. What I said, in other words, was: What does it prove, wins or losses, when a guy played like ass, or didn't?

The title of the thread is that Kobe hurts his team late in games.

You say it is because he is inefficient he is hurting his team.

I say it doesn't matter if Kobe is inefficient or not, they still win the game.

When you look at Kobe's "playing like" ass but being undefeated in Overtime, how is that hurting the team.

Yet 82games "clutch superheroes" are like 2-18 in close games this year.

Which one is really hurting their team? The "awesome" superstars in Lebron and Wade who lose the game or the "Playing like ass" superstar that brings home the win?

In my opinion it's the 82games "clutch superstars" like Lebron, Wade and Melo who play so efficiently but choke on the game winner that hurts their team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

There are no style points in winning, you either win or you lose. Kobe doesn't hurt his team "playing like ass" and winning the game. A win is a win and certainly greater than a loss.

mavs777
04-14-2011, 03:02 AM
The Lakers are winning games at the end inspite of Kobe, not because of

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 03:06 AM
Pau never won a Playoff game without Kobe in 12 tries. A shut out even with a prime Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and James Posey.

Pau's team was a better cast than Kobe's Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko, etc.Oh, was that Kobe's cast when he took his pants down and showed his ass when the Suns were dismissing them in Game Seven?

chumdawg
04-14-2011, 03:12 AM
There are no style points in winning, you either win or you lose. Kobe doesn't hurt his team "playing like ass" and winning the game. A win is a win and certainly greater than a loss.Well, yeah. Nobody in the history of the game ever hurt their team by playing like ass, when they won the game. It's when they take every shot in the last five minutes and miss them all and they LOSE the game, that they hurt their team.

It didn't happen tonight, because Kobe found one that went. It would have happened tonight, if that one hadn't gone, because his team was playing one-on-five toward the end.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:33 AM
Oh, was that Kobe's cast when he took his pants down and showed his ass when the Suns were dismissing them in Game Seven?

Even Jordan couldn't win without Pippen. Jordan was repeatedly bent over until Pippen joined him.

There's no shame in Kobe losing with Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwamay Brown in his starting 5.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:36 AM
It didn't happen tonight, because Kobe found one that went. It would have happened tonight, if that one hadn't gone, because his team was playing one-on-five toward the end.

These IF's don't happen often to the best closer in the game. In fact, the Lakers lost only something like 2 close games this year.

As opposed to the 82Games "efficient" superstars who lost something close to 20 close games this year.

Kobe won, the Lakers secured #2.

I'll go further and bet that Kobe will not hurt the Lakers versus the Mavs in Round 2 and most likely in the series, there will be another Kobe win.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:44 AM
You know, when it comes down to it, just ask this question:

With 24 seconds left in a 2 point game, which Mavericks fan would be yelling for Carlisle to let Kobe make the play and "hurt his team" instead of forcing it to Ron or Pau?

Dirkadirkastan
04-14-2011, 03:53 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that Brian Cardinal was part of that '06 Memphis team.

nwtzk
04-14-2011, 07:27 AM
Kobe is clutch.

nowhereman
04-14-2011, 09:05 AM
No he isn't. Watch the games objectively - he'll make one shot and make a ton of stupid miostakes. Last night against the Kings for example, he hits two long jumpers and everyone thinks he's amazing, but what about the turnover that gave the kings the lead? What about the night before when Lamar had to bail his ass out? What about 2 nights before that when he had 3 turnovers and a foul on a 3 point play to make a 2 point deficit into a 14 point loss? What about all the advanced stats that say he ISN'T CLUTCH

And he's so ridiculously overrated historically. Without Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson, we're talking about someone between Monta Ellis and Clyde Drexler. For at least 7 years in his "prime" he hasn't been the best shooting guard in the NBA (McGrady, Arenas, Wade) yet some people think he's t5 all time. Same guy who pulled a Rick Barry in an elimination against the Suns, got pouty and demanded a trade to a contender, and "led" the Lakers, who's 2nd best player at the time was Caron Butler and 3d best player was Lamar Odom, to a 34-48 season the one year he didn't have Phil Jackson babysitting his ass. The greatest coach in NBA history wrote a freakin' book about how much he hated the guy, for crying out loud. He cost the city of LA at least as many championships as he won by chasing Shaq out of town and tearing his team apart in a finals loss.

But no, he does the contrived underbite and the lame-ass under-armor jersey tug and pouts and yells at teammates and calls referee's derogatory slurs and gets accused of rape but THIS is the media darling?

nowhereman
04-14-2011, 09:06 AM
if he doesn't have artest to bail him out against phoenix, if yao ming doesn't get hurt, if pau gasol and ron don't save his ass in game 7 last year, maybe we'd still remember the real Kobe Bryant

mavs777
04-14-2011, 01:26 PM
You know, when it comes down to it, just ask this question:

With 24 seconds left in a 2 point game, which Mavericks fan would be yelling for Carlisle to let Kobe make the play and "hurt his team" instead of forcing it to Ron or Pau?

No, but there is a difference between that and taking 7 shots in 2:30 of a game and playing 1 on 5 offensivley

Mavericks Rockets Fan
04-14-2011, 01:38 PM
These IF's don't happen often to the best closer in the game. In fact, the Lakers lost only something like 2 close games this year.

By my count, Lakers are 15-8 in games decided by 5 points or less (which is worse than their overall record). So I guess 8=2 in Laker math?

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:29 PM
So I guess 8=2 in Laker math?

Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:33 PM
No, but there is a difference between that and taking 7 shots in 2:30 of a game and playing 1 on 5 offensivley

Ok, so with 2:30 in the game, you'd be yelling for Carlisle to just let Kobe make all the plays because he's just going to "hurt his team"?

mavs777
04-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Ok, so with 2:30 in the game, you'd be yelling for Carlisle to just let Kobe make all the plays?

Considering kobes plays are shooting fallaway 20 footers, yes

mavs777
04-14-2011, 03:36 PM
Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

I am not sure what this is even suppose to mean, the Lakers record in close games is worse than their overrall record.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:46 PM
he Lakers record in close games is worse than their overrall record.

You mean like every other good team in the NBA?

What good team has a better record in close games than their overall record?

Lol, now I'm not sure what you're supposed to be sayin'. What is your point in saying this?

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:48 PM
Considering kobes plays are shooting fallaway 20 footers, yes

Ah, I see.

Well theres a Lakers/Mavs series in a couple of weeks.

I'll keep an eye on the game threads here in the 4th quarter and see if you and your fellow Mav fans agree.

If I find any good ones about getting the ball out of Kobe's hands, I'll be sure to post them here...especially if Kobe hits a fadeaway game winner.

To be fair, if I see any posts urging Carlisle to put the ball in Kobe's hands so he can "hurt his team late in games", I'll post those too....if they exist. :)

Underdog
04-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Well theres a Lakers/Mavs series in a couple of weeks.

Well at least you have faith in the Mavs 1st Round chances.

Thanks for that.

Bynum4MVP
04-14-2011, 03:56 PM
Well at least you have faith in the Mavs 1st Round chances.

Thanks for that.

I have a healthy respect for the Mavs. I don't think enough people realize that the Mavs could just have easily been the #2 seed and even #1 without Butler's injury.

Dirk's a great player, and despite what some people say, he's also clutch.

Budapest Maverick
04-15-2011, 03:19 PM
No he isn't. Watch the games objectively - he'll make one shot and make a ton of stupid miostakes. Last night against the Kings for example, he hits two long jumpers and everyone thinks he's amazing, but what about the turnover that gave the kings the lead? What about the night before when Lamar had to bail his ass out? What about 2 nights before that when he had 3 turnovers and a foul on a 3 point play to make a 2 point deficit into a 14 point loss? What about all the advanced stats that say he ISN'T CLUTCH

And he's so ridiculously overrated historically. Without Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson, we're talking about someone between Monta Ellis and Clyde Drexler. For at least 7 years in his "prime" he hasn't been the best shooting guard in the NBA (McGrady, Arenas, Wade) yet some people think he's t5 all time. Same guy who pulled a Rick Barry in an elimination against the Suns, got pouty and demanded a trade to a contender, and "led" the Lakers, who's 2nd best player at the time was Caron Butler and 3d best player was Lamar Odom, to a 34-48 season the one year he didn't have Phil Jackson babysitting his ass. The greatest coach in NBA history wrote a freakin' book about how much he hated the guy, for crying out loud. He cost the city of LA at least as many championships as he won by chasing Shaq out of town and tearing his team apart in a finals loss.

But no, he does the contrived underbite and the lame-ass under-armor jersey tug and pouts and yells at teammates and calls referee's derogatory slurs and gets accused of rape but THIS is the media darling?

Great post, agree with every single word. Well, of course i agree, you listed facts only. :)

mavs777
04-17-2011, 05:01 PM
beautiful 4rth for kobe right

Mavericks Rockets Fan
04-18-2011, 12:09 PM
Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudEYEVZJQ&feature=player_embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

Ok, so I was wrong. 4=2 in Laker math...

The Lakers were 4-4 in games decided by 3 points or less. Again, that is .500 and demonstrates that Kobe is at best average when it comes to clutch shooting. You have made the argument for me...

Underdog
05-03-2011, 02:34 AM
87-90 | 4:30 Kobe Bryant misses 25-foot three point jumper
87-90 | 4:01 Tyson Chandler blocks Kobe Bryant's jumper
87-92 | 3:32 Kobe Bryant makes 17-foot jumper
89-92 | 2:42 Kobe Bryant misses 19-foot jumper
91-94 | 1:00 Kobe Bryant makes 11-foot two point shot
93-94 | 0:20 Kobe Bryant bad pass (Jason Terry steal)
96-94 | 0:02 Kobe Bryant misses 26-foot three point jumper


He had zero assists tonight...

mcsluggo
05-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Pau never won a Playoff game without Kobe in 12 tries. A shut out even with a prime Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and James Posey.

Pau's team was a better cast than Kobe's Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko, etc.

you mean... the one that didn't make it to the playoffs?