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aexchange
07-25-2012, 11:43 AM
Broussard has the Nets as a top 4 seed in the Eastern conference. I have Miami, Boston, Chicago being significant better and Philly, Indiana being marginally better. I think the Nets are there with the Knicks in terms of overall talent.

Personally, I don't see that they've improved significantly even with the addition of Joe Johnson. Watson isn't much of an upgrade over Farmar, and you still have the rest of the crap that didn't manage to win many games last season intact. In addition, Avery is still their coach and I don't expect him to be able to creatively utilize the players on that team.

I think a good over/under line for wins this season for the Nets is 41. Thoughts?

Underdog
07-25-2012, 11:50 AM
Broussard has the Nets as a top 4 seed in the Eastern conference. I have Miami, Boston, Chicago being significant better and Philly, Indiana being marginally better. I think the Nets are there with the Knicks in terms of overall talent.

Personally, I don't see that they've improved significantly even with the addition of Joe Johnson. Watson isn't much of an upgrade over Farmar, and you still have the rest of the crap that didn't manage to win many games last season intact. In addition, Avery is still their coach and I don't expect him to be able to creatively utilize the players on that team.

I think a good over/under line for wins this season for the Nets is 41. Thoughts?

Sounds about right: .333 record + Joe Johnson = .500 record

davblue
07-25-2012, 11:50 AM
I don't see Chicago being significantly better given the Rose injury and the pieces they've lost this offseason. But due credit to Thibs if he can manage a top 4 seed with that roster.

I see the Nets on par with Philly and Indiana (maybe a little better) and far off Miami/Boston.

Dirkadirkastan
07-25-2012, 12:03 PM
Obviously, the best way to improve your roster is to dole out obscene raises to the guys that already play for you.

Underdog
07-25-2012, 12:20 PM
Obviously, the best way to improve your roster is to dole out obscene raises to the guys that already play for you.

Or in the case of Lopez, guys that barely play for you...

davblue
07-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Can't forget the part where you trade away a lottery pick so you can do the aforementioned overpaying of guys that already play for you.

Dirkadirkastan
07-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Or in the case of Lopez, guys that barely play for you...

I'm skeeeeeerrred...

EricaLubarsky
07-25-2012, 12:40 PM
I look forward to Kaman absolutely demolishing Lopez in our first game in Brooklyn.

grndmstr_c
07-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Maybe I'm going against the grain a bit, but health is the only reason I can see that the Nets wouldn't be significantly better this year than last. Yes, 4 of their 5 starters are returning players, but only Deron and Humphries played significant minutes for them last year. Of course, Brook's foot is something of a question mark at present, but for however long they can play it, I'd expect their lineup with their best five guys to be formidable, and certainly up to the standard of a top-4 seed in the East. It's depth (if not Brook's foot) that's likely to be their achilles, and finishing 6th is probably at least as likely as finishing 4th for them.

jthig32
07-25-2012, 12:49 PM
I think you have to remember that they're essentially adding Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace as well. Wallace was there for roughly a fourth of the season, and Lopez played all of five games.

I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't win 45 games, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see them win 50+. And Chicago is going to play almost the entire season without Rose, and have lost Asik and Ronnie Brewer, so I'm not sure they're a lock to finish ahead of the Nets.

I think the Nets are going to look pretty damn good for stretches this season, but they're not going to be able to defend anyone and have basically no shot of ever being a true title contender as currently constructed.

EricaLubarsky
07-25-2012, 12:51 PM
I'd pencil them in at 5 or 6, which isnt terrible at all-- I just think they got themselves into an Atlanta Hawks situation where they will be a decent playoff team that never has a hope of being a top 3 seed and no chance of making the finals. I can see them making the playoffs for our consecutive years, but like the Hawks, always going out in the first or second round.

There are just a handful of teams that will always be better and they also have very little room to improve with all their long term contracts and an even less friendly CBA which will make teams less likely to take big/long contracts off their hands if things don't go well. I congratulate them on building a playoff team. I just think they turned themselves into the new Hawks in the process. Teams like the Heat can tap out with two superstars and a star and watch decent free agents come to them. Other than being in Brooklyn, I don't see why any free agent would choose a mediocre Nets team over the Heat or Celtics.

Kidd Karma
07-25-2012, 01:43 PM
4th is about right. 50-55 wins, 2nd round exit.

aexchange
07-25-2012, 02:23 PM
I think you have to remember that they're essentially adding Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace as well. Wallace was there for roughly a fourth of the season, and Lopez played all of five games.

I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't win 45 games, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see them win 50+. And Chicago is going to play almost the entire season without Rose, and have lost Asik and Ronnie Brewer, so I'm not sure they're a lock to finish ahead of the Nets.

I think the Nets are going to look pretty damn good for stretches this season, but they're not going to be able to defend anyone and have basically no shot of ever being a true title contender as currently constructed.

I would be shocked if they won more than 50 games this season. Johnson and Wallace, while nice players in a vacuum aren't capable of making any of the teams they've played on better. Lopez and Hump are complete trash for completely different reasons.

jthig32
07-25-2012, 02:35 PM
I would be shocked if they won more than 50 games this season. Johnson and Wallace, while nice players in a vacuum aren't capable of making any of the teams they've played on better. Lopez and Hump are complete trash for completely different reasons.

I think you're underrating Johnson. He's overpaid, but he's a good player. A legitimate all star player.

Lopez being "trash" seems overly strong. I'm not a huge fan, but the guy can score, and he'll score even better with this team around him.

And I think people (maybe not you, I don't know) have forgotten how good Deron Williams is over the past two years.

Underdog
07-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Lopez being "trash" seems overly strong.

Which word would you use for a center who can't rebound?

grndmstr_c
07-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Which word would you use for a center who can't rebound?
There's more than rebounding to take account of, though. Lopez might be trash as a rebounder and a defender, but he's a very capable offensive player. And you have to consider the way the pieces fit together, too. Rebounding is a major strength for both Wallace and Humphries, so on balance I think the Nets will probably do just fine rebounding the ball when their go-to lineup is out there.

EricaLubarsky
07-25-2012, 03:01 PM
Which word would you use for a center who can't rebound?

Last year

Nets that rebounded better than Lopez
Green
Humphreys
Wallace
Gaines
Emmett
J. Williams
She. Williams
Sha. Williams
Brooks
James
Petro
Okur
Owens
Smith
Bogans
Horner

Nets that rebounded worse (only 3)
Deshawn Stevenson
D. Williams
Owens

Mavs better than Lopez
Dirk
Carter
Wright
Williams
Kidd
Marion
Beaubois
Mahinmi
Haywood
Dojo
Odom
Cardinal
Yi

Mavs worse than Lopez
Terry
West

Admittedly he was injured through most of last season and only played five games before getting injured again but to be a worse rebounder as a % than Roddy, Dojo, Kidd and other guards when you are a 7-footer (now with a max contract) is simply pathetic. In the previous year he was only slightly better at a per36 rate and rebound rating-- still losing out to a lot of guys including many SGs and SFs.

Dirkadirkastan
07-25-2012, 03:05 PM
Nets that rebounded better than Lopez
Green
Humphreys
Wallace
Gaines
Emmett
J. Williams
She. Williams
Sha. Williams
Brooks
James
Petro
Okur
Owens
Smith
Bogans
Horner

I don't even know who half those people are.

EricaLubarsky
07-25-2012, 03:07 PM
I don't even know who half those people are.
http://nysportszone.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/brook-lopez.jpg
Exactly.

spreedom
07-25-2012, 05:28 PM
Let's not forget to factor in that Avery is just terrible as a coach. How in the world did Lopez' rebounding numbers drop by 50% in just two seasons? I fully expected him to be a 20/10 candidate during the 10-11 season.

Kidd Karma
07-25-2012, 06:02 PM
Let's not forget to factor in that Avery is just terrible as a coach. How in the world did Lopez' rebounding numbers drop by 50% in just two seasons? I fully expected him to be a 20/10 candidate during the 10-11 season.

Slow start dooms Avery.

Spurred1
08-03-2012, 02:24 PM
Lopez was injured for most of last year, but prior to that, he already seemed to be regressing. He was very solid when he first started, but then seemed to hit some sort of wall. He could bounce back this year-we'll see.
Hump isn't trash-he was married to trash. He's a good rebounder and is capable of scoring. He does tend to take bad shots a bit too often and attempt to take over sometimes, but other than that, he's a good role player.
Wallace is often injured. His style of playing is effective, but it leads to injury as well. He's a question mark.
Johnson is very good, but way overpaid. He'll help out the Nets, but I doubt it will be enough to contend for anything.The Hawks were good while he was there; he had a nice supporting cast and they didn't really get anywhere.
The Nets will be better than they were in previous years-how could they not improve, if everyone stays healthy? But they still won't win anything unless the Heat or Celtics suffer some serious setbacks. They'll improve though and that may be enough for them right now.

LonghornDub
08-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Nets will be a 3 or 4 seed if healthy.

Kidd Karma
08-03-2012, 03:42 PM
Lopez was injured for most of last year, but prior to that, he already seemed to be regressing. He was very solid when he first started, but then seemed to hit some sort of wall. He could bounce back this year-we'll see.
Hump isn't trash-he was married to trash. He's a good rebounder and is capable of scoring. He does tend to take bad shots a bit too often and attempt to take over sometimes, but other than that, he's a good role player.
Wallace is often injured. His style of playing is effective, but it leads to injury as well. He's a question mark.
Johnson is very good, but way overpaid. He'll help out the Nets, but I doubt it will be enough to contend for anything.The Hawks were good while he was there; he had a nice supporting cast and they didn't really get anywhere.
The Nets will be better than they were in previous years-how could they not improve, if everyone stays healthy? But they still won't win anything unless the Heat or Celtics suffer some serious setbacks. They'll improve though and that may be enough for them right now.

Lopez and Hump are a good match at the 4-5 spots. Hump's rebounding and toughness matches Lopez's finesse offensively. This team is going to ride DWill to the ground. Wallace needs a setup, can't create for himself.

Side note, articles hitting the web, Phelps was the #2 swimmer in the nation at the age of 10. #1 at that age was Humphries......