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View Full Version : camby AND hilario for antonio mcdyess?


Murphy3
06-26-2002, 07:26 PM
what?

Murphy3
06-26-2002, 07:27 PM
surely this cannot be right but it was just reported.... there must be something else to this trade...

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:28 PM
I heard Jackson and Camby for McDyess.

Murphy3
06-26-2002, 07:29 PM
just heard:
mark jackson, hilario, camby

for
#25 pick and
antonio mcdyess

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:30 PM
Is there a Kiki-Mavs deal for Nene later on?

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:31 PM
that is an incredibly stupid trade by Layden...holy shit what is he thinking?

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:31 PM
I'm dumbfounded. I really didn't think that Layden was this imcompetent and stupid. It's heartbreaking to see Layden ravaged like this by his fellow GMs...it's like a wilding..

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:32 PM
Layden should be euthanized.

Murphy3
06-26-2002, 07:32 PM
well..i don't quite understand..i know that the knicks were wanting to unload jackson's contract and i'm sure this had alot to do with the move...but hell, they simply gave up too much.

but, this might make the knicks better right now if mcdyess can stay healthy... i guess they can't be too much worse

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:33 PM
8:37 PM: Kiki Vandeweghe confirms McDyess has been traded to New York for the rights to Hilario, Camby and Mark Jackson.

Stupid. Pathologically stupid.

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:36 PM
I'm ROFLMAO...I can't believe how bad the NYKs can get.

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:38 PM
The Knicks are going to suck ass for many years. Not that I am complaining mind you...just glad Layden isn't a Texan.

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:39 PM
The Laydens are from Brooklyn. Everyone up here thinks they're Mormons though.

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:39 PM
Mormons....I wonder if....

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:43 PM
Trade Layden to Utah?i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

MavKikiNYC
06-26-2002, 07:44 PM
Mantis will be a NYK soon.

Drbio
06-26-2002, 07:48 PM
Can I get that in writing?

Dooby
06-27-2002, 07:44 AM
ESPN's anaysis says that the Nuggets are now the leading contender for the Lebron James lottery, insinuating that they will be the worst team next year. I think this hinges on giving up on McDyess. I looked it up, Camby played in more games than McDyess in the last 2 years. This is just part of the NY spin to make the Knicks look better.

Murphy3
06-27-2002, 07:57 AM
denver will suffer through some growing pains..but, they have some talented youth.... give them and the rockets some time..

they will probably be bad next year..but, that's easy to stomach considering their youth and that they might compete for a very high lottery pick next year as well...

MavKikiNYC
06-27-2002, 09:00 AM
<<Denver will suffer through some growing pains....>>

Layden doesn't understand that NYK fans were more ready than they'll ever be again to support a rebuilding team. People aren't stupid...they'll watch a team that doesn't win much if it seems like there's a chance that the players will develop into something. It can actually be fun to watch a team being put together and watching the players develop--at least as fun as watching an ugly, dysfunctional team sputter and wheeze its way to a .500ish record, and fall over into the playoffs because Eastern talent is markedly less.

Layden's a fool.

TheKid
06-27-2002, 10:15 AM
I know the logic Layden has, since they can't get rid of Houston and they're having a hard time getting rid of Sprewell, they figure they mine as well try and win now because both of them are going to be here for a while and they HAVE to play with those ridiculous contracts.

I don't mind the trade that badly, however I would have liked to go for the youth movement. I would have LOVED for them to draft either Coran Butler or Wilcox and try to build around that...

I knew Jackson was out of there, the Knicks asked him to retire and coach and he said NO, so you knew he was going somewhere. I still don't think they're done with trading players but we'll see what happens.

Murphy3
06-27-2002, 11:11 AM
layden was in a horrible situation... but, this trade probably didn't do too much to help that situation out

TheKid
06-27-2002, 12:55 PM
yeah he was in a horrible situation but he has put himself in that horrible situation..

Murphy3
06-27-2002, 12:58 PM
oh, of course thekid..but he had to bite the bullet at some point

David
06-27-2002, 05:23 PM
Odd but Mark Stein in the DMN listed NY as being in the top three with how they made out in the draft.

MavKikiNYC
06-27-2002, 06:23 PM
Yeah...Stein's credibility plummeted in my estimation with that assessment.

The NYKs fans who wanted a rebuild don't seem to be buying this trade. The ones who think that limping into the playoffs with Houston and Spree is cool are placated.

I think Kiki is a genius.

And Vandeweghe too.

Bayliss
06-27-2002, 06:38 PM
<< I think Kiki is a genius.

And Vandeweghe too. >>



**laughs** Not sure if Murph would agree with the former.

And I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good trade for the Knickks. Go to Hoopsworld, Fanhome, and Insidehoops... they all think it was a good trade for the Knicks.

They got McDyess. Sure he is a good power forward, but is he worth trading away a potential Olujawon? Shawn Kemp with attitude &amp; defense?

MFFL
06-27-2002, 07:02 PM
<< [They got McDyess. Sure he is a good power forward, but is he worth trading away a potential Olujawon? Shawn Kemp with attitude &amp; defense? >>



You hit the nail on the head - potential. He might be great, he might be a bust. Nobody knows. Layden needs to make the playoffs to have a job, Hilario doesn't help the Knicks make the playoffs.

Denver made the trade because McDyess WASN'T going to resign with Denver, so Kiki decided to go reload with POTENTIAL All-Stars.

Bayliss
06-27-2002, 07:14 PM
<< You hit the nail on the head - potential. He might be great, he might be a bust. Nobody knows. Layden needs to make the playoffs to have a job, Hilario doesn't help the Knicks make the playoffs. >>



I will agree that it is potential... and he could turn out to be nothing. But then again when McDyess does return is he going to be as good as he was?

And I'm not sure id McDyess helps them make the playoffs anyway. The East is water down but you have Toronto, Indiana, NJ, Milwaukee, Philly, Orlando, Detroit, Boston, Atlanta (if healthy), New Orleans &amp; Miami all competing for 8 spots. With a healthy Dice, do you see them pushing into the playoffs? When nearly all of the other teams are younger or have upgraded through the draft or possible free agency.

Murphy3
06-28-2002, 07:31 AM
It was a horrible trade for the Knicks.
why? because they got to a point to where their salaries were so screwed up that they HAD to make that deal to get some breathing room. But, it was a deal that they probably needed to make...it's unfortunate for knicks fans, but what other option did the knicks have? They did receive a guy that is potentially one of the better PF's in the NBA

Drbio
06-28-2002, 08:18 AM
The Knicks got raped on that trade. It will haunt them for years as Hilario becomes a dominant NBA force.

Big Boy Laroux
06-28-2002, 08:38 AM
hey, i post at fanhome, and i don't think it was a good trade for the knicks...



now, i will say this. it does look like the knicks got the short end of the stick... but who knows. time will tell. if mcdyess returns to form. williams also has the abilities to be a good pg in the nba. but again, time will tell on that.

Drbio
06-28-2002, 03:32 PM
IF dice can stay healthy. He hasn't played in 1.5 years consistently.

MFFL
06-28-2002, 06:43 PM
McDyess played 70 games year before last, he only missed the last few games that year. He has, not including last year, played in 94% of the games in his career. A serious injury sometimes takes 1 1/2 to 2 years to fully heal. McDyess will be back as a force next year.

If Hilario is a guaranteed All-Star then why was he available at 7?

MavKikiNYC
06-28-2002, 06:52 PM
Interesting nugget: (no pun anymore)

&lt;&lt;The knee surgery represented the first major injury of McDyess' career. It also raises concerns about his condition because much of McDyess' game is predicated on athleticism and explosiveness.

Before the surgery, McDyess' vertical leap was measured at 42 inches, which is probably three times higher than any Knick. But the 6-foot-9, 245-pound McDyess expressed frustration during the season that the surgery had robbed him of his most prized weapon.

&quot;I see some of the rebounds come off the rim, the balls are below the net, and I can barely get them,&quot; he said two months ago. &quot;That really gets me mad at myself. I know how I used to play, and I can't do those things that I used to do.&quot;&gt;&gt;

From Isola NY Daily News

Drbio
06-28-2002, 06:52 PM
guaranteed? No.

Most likely? Yeah, I think so.


Hilario looks awesome. But, let's see him play for a year or so first.

MavKikiNYC
06-30-2002, 11:57 AM
Very revealing post from a Nuggets fan, posting to NYK fans regarding McDyess.

&quot;Here's the honest scoop on Dice, who I've met and watched play his entire Denver career.

First of all, he's a truly nice guy, perhaps one of the nicest guys in the league.

Secondly, he lets his emotions and friendships guide every choice he makes. Money is not the determining factor in his decisionmaking, whether he's comfortable is.

Thirdly, he is NOT the dominating inside presence all of you THINK he is. The guy SHOULD be a dominating inside presence, but he rarely drives to the hoop and has very little in the way of post-up skills. The majority of his points will come from his 15-foot turnarounds from either side, especially the left side.

Fourth, he is loveable but not all there mentally. We call him Forrest Dice in Denver, because he always means well but has very little in the brains department.

Who knows how his knee will hold up? He thought he was ready to go last year, and practically forced Kiki to play him. Two things were apparent: He could NOT jump out of the gym, as he'd been able to previously, but his shot was actually more accurate.

Fifth, please...for both yours and especially for Dice's sake, do NOT expect him to carry your team or (god forbid) take the big shot. In Dice's entire Denver career, he actually took and made ONE crunchtime shot which led to a Nuggets victory. He disappears during crunchtime, and this isn't likely to change.

Lastly, give the guy a break, ok? He has a very delicate psyche and if the Knicks fans get really down on him, the poor guy will start to cry...publicly...and he will never try again.

Yeah, looks like the probability is high that Kiki worked Laydown over.

MavKikiNYC
06-30-2002, 12:05 PM
Interesting to see the effect that NY press spin has had on fan perception..

&lt;&lt;NBA.com poll:

Which team benefited most from the Knicks-Nuggets trade?

New York 59%

Denver 41%

Total Responses: 40825&gt;&gt;

Drbio
06-30-2002, 03:02 PM
anyone who thinks that NY got the best of that deal is either a homer to the max or pathologically stupid.

Murphy3
06-30-2002, 06:37 PM
the biggest reason it worked for the knicks was because it allowed them to move some salaries..at the same time, they received some pretty good talent...maybe not the equivalent of what they gave up..but time will only tell

Drbio
06-30-2002, 07:04 PM
Well, I know you are not a Knick homer so......


i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Hoopsmeister
07-01-2002, 12:38 PM
The Knicks did improve themselves. Assuming Mcdyess can play next year, he will get them back into the Eastern Conference playoffs. But they will continue to be mired in mediocrity. One round and out.

Denver on the other hand means business. They will suck next year and add a lottery pick guard (James?) and in 2-3 years they will be where the Clippers are now--ready to become contenders if they are willing to pay to keep their people.

Drbio
07-01-2002, 01:24 PM
The Nuggets will pay...the Clips will not.

Murphy3
07-01-2002, 02:02 PM
it was a great move for the nuggets.. it was a necessary move for the knicks

TheKid
07-03-2002, 09:27 AM
If McDysse comes in healthy, that trade was NOT a bad move for the Knicks.. McDysse being healthy is the key. If he can't play then he's just be another Camby.

MavKikiNYC
07-03-2002, 10:08 AM
McDice was a right move in the wrong direction. He will probably improve that team for next year, but nowhere near enough to make them a serious playoff threat.

NYKs should be tearing down and rebuilding the team so that they have the possibility of being serious playoff contenders in 3-5 years--not the retooling and rigging things up for a 45-win season and a first- or second-round playoff extermination that Layden has them set up for now.

For my tastes, Denver is a much more exciting basketball situation right now, and it should be interesting to watch the progress of that club in the next few years.

Go, Kiki.

TheKid
07-03-2002, 10:19 AM
I agree Mavs Kiki, but the reason they are trying to retool is for two reasons.

1. They're in the eastern conference so pretty much all they have to do is make themselves a playoff team and ANYTHING could happen.. (Remember a few years ago they were an 8 seed and made it to the finals)

2. The reason they're not tearing everything down is because they have SO MANY players that are untradeable they are stuck with them. So I assume the way they figure is if they have to pay them, they mine as well try to be a competitive team.

However I'm in agreement with you, I would been happy to see them tear this team down, get some young energetic talent in there and start to rebuild. I could have dealt with that for a few more years. That's why I about shit in my pants when they passed over Coran Butler and Wilcox...

Hoopsmeister
07-03-2002, 01:01 PM
<< 2. The reason they're not tearing everything down is because they have SO MANY players that are untradeable they are stuck with them. So I assume the way they figure is if they have to pay them, they mine as well try to be a competitive team. >>



How long is Houston's deal? That's the real killer; other than that, they do have a lot of bad contracts but as Denver and Washington have shown, you can get rid of almost any contract if you are willing to stink for a couple of years. But no one is going to take Houston for that money until the contract is almost up (like Howard became tradable as his contract is nearing expiration).

Until they bite they bullet and actually rebuild the Knicks are going to be a mediocre (at best) team. Given how weak the Eastern Conference is, they can still make the playoffs (maybe) but they won't go anywhere.

TheKid
07-03-2002, 01:44 PM
But no one is going to take Houston for that money until the contract is almost up (like Howard became tradable as his contract is nearing expiration).

Exactly, remember he just signed his contract last year and this past season was the first year of a seven year $100M contract. The Knicks tried to cover their but by making Houston taking out the no trade clause, but NO ONE wants Houston for that money. So the Knicks are stuck with him for a few years.

No one wants Harrington, Witherspoons or Anderson's contract. The ONLY reason people are willing to take Ward is because I think he only has a year or two left on his ridiculous contract.