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David
07-15-2002, 08:22 PM
Monday, July 15

Kantner reportedly had no warning before firing

ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- Dee Kantner, one of the NBA's two female referees, has been fired, the
NBA said Monday.

"Dee has been terminated,'' NBA vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson
said. "There are times in a referee's development that we find that a referee is not
making sufficient progress in her own development and sometimes a change is needed.
In this case, we felt that her termination was warranted.''

Kantner and Violet Palmer joined the NBA's officiating staff in 1997. It was the first
time in major U.S. professional sports that women officiated regular-season games in an
all-male league. Both worked through the 2001-02 season.

In a story published in the Sacramento Bee, Kantner said she was given no warning
before being fired and said she is "pursuing all options," which could include legal
action.

"I'm completely stunned," Kantner told the Bee from her home in Charlotte, N.C. "I had
no idea I was in trouble. I would have expected management to have said something,
yet there was nothing in any of my reviews. I am completely blown away, to be
honest."

Before she was hired by the NBA, Kantner was the supervisor of officials for the
WNBA.

NBA officials are evaluated by Jackson, the league's supervisor of officials, staff
observers and coaches and general managers.

NBA officiating director Ed Rush said referee Jim Kinsey also was dismissed, according
to Bloomberg. At the end of last season, the league had 59 referees on staff.

The Bee story said an end-of-season ratings system ranked Kantner last, though she
refutes the system that says she's the league's worst official, the story said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Murphy3
07-15-2002, 08:29 PM
glory glory

Rhylan
07-15-2002, 09:55 PM
There is a God.

Good to know that the NBA is indeed cracking down on sheer incompetence, even if it still ignores blatant inconsistency.

Hoopsmeister
07-15-2002, 10:55 PM
Ding dong the witch is dead!

Of course, they shouldn't stop with Kantner.

Rhylan
07-15-2002, 11:08 PM
The ESPN article also says that they let go of Jim Kinsey. I don't even remember seeing a game where Kinsey officiated -- usually that's the sign of a good referee.. I dunno???

I thought it was hilarious how Kantner was ranked dead-ass last per the NBA's ranking system!! HA HA HA!

Crappy thing is that this might turn into some big equal treatment scuffle. If you didn't suck, you wouldn't get fired!

Dooby
07-16-2002, 08:01 AM
Yes, but she was denied equal treatment because she both sucks and is a woman. She clearly wasn't fired solely because she sucked because, otherewise, a lot more refs would have been fired.

But seriously, she really was terrible.

MavKikiNYC
07-16-2002, 09:08 AM
I agree this is just desserts for now.

But how many times have NBA officials been 'terminated' (couldn't they use the term 'ejected'....for old times' sake?) and we've never heard a word about it?

Frankly, this sounds something like another example of NBA officiating being mismanaged--if, in fact, the league never took any steps to address her need to improve performance.

And what does this say about the quality of officiating in the WNBA? Was she kicked up to the men's league, or does that league have serious issues as well. I wouldn't know. I can't watch a game past the opening convulsions...I mean tipoff.

The Crippler
07-16-2002, 10:39 AM
Women refs have no place in men's sports. She proved that she couldn't keep up. Call me sexist, a pig, whatever, but this proved my point that I first made after the Sac town phamtom foul.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. (can you tell that i am happy) HA HA HA HE HE HE HE. Oh this is a great day in basketball...

Murphy3
07-16-2002, 11:35 AM
i doubt that her being let go had anything to do with her being a woman... actually, i'm sure it's quite the opposite. i'm sure they probably kept her longer than they would have liked because SHE IS a woman.
i'm sure they were very gunshy about making this move..

but, she sucked and needed to go

MavKikiNYC
07-16-2002, 12:11 PM
Interesting view from Cubes:

Cuban says firing backs his stance on referees

Mark Cuban was able to address one of his favorite topics, the NBA's officiating system, when he learned that the league fired Dee Kantner , one of only two women referees in the NBA.

Specifically, Cuban said Kantner's firing supports his stance that the league needs a third party to evaluate referees.

Kantner was fired in part because of an evaluation system that ranked her last among officials last season. Ratings from coaches and general managers account for 40 percent of a referee's total score, but Cuban said those evaluations are flawed.

"The ratings are pretty much a joke," Cuban said. "The league won't provide data to allow you to make the best possible evaluations. They work to prevent you from accumulating your own data by trying to hide the calls by ref information in the stats of each game, and they expect you to do ref evaluations off the top of your head. It's so bad, they have to provide pictures of the refs so you know which ref is which. How do you make a valid evaluation when you are prevented from capturing data that allows you to make the most informed evaluation? No one should be expected to do that."

Cuban said he would support Kantner in any fight she makes against the league's firing.

"It's impossible to know whether to keep or let go a ref, or any employee, if the management system is not in place to fairly judge an employee's performance," Cuban said.

Murphy3
07-16-2002, 12:32 PM
the league needs no third party to figure out that DK needed her ass fired.

Dooby
07-16-2002, 01:22 PM
Hey, Cubes. WTF? She totally deserved to have her ass fired.

Rhylan
07-16-2002, 01:27 PM
Of course she did - and Cuban knows that. Anyone who watches the NBA knows she sucks. But, again, when it comes to Cubes, momma didn't raise no fool.

He knows what's up. The evaluation system is whack. She was just so bad that she's dead last no matter how you rank 'em. The thing is that she is a woman, and people will pick up on the story because of that. She was a political hire and was marked because she wasn't part of the good ol' boy network.

It's good for all involved, because she was a political hire and she sucked. But!!

If she wasn't made aware of the problem and given a chance to improve (even though she probably was incapable of it!), then she's got a little bit of a gripe. This minor controvery can help Cuban apply pressure for getting a third party auditor in there.

And as soon as you DO get a third party in there, doing meaninful evaluations.. then you get a shot at getting rid of the crappy referees who ARE a part of the good ol' boy network.

Dooby
07-16-2002, 01:48 PM
1. I think woman can be good refs.

2. I think woman can be good refs in the NBA.

3. Dee Kantner bit.

The Crippler
07-16-2002, 02:57 PM
1. I agree, depending on the league.

2. I disagree. Men will never respect women refs. This is a fact.

3. I agree.

FishForLunch
07-16-2002, 03:19 PM
I think Cubes wants a Law Suit so that an Independent Third Party can do the evaluations and get rid of the STAR system. More Power to Him

MavKikiNYC
07-18-2002, 09:15 AM
From a couple of years ago:

Dee Kantner and Violet Palmer became the first female NBA refs. Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson said, "I don't believe they could be the most qualified referees out there."

But Dennis Rodman did him one better, saying, "They've got to be ready to get touched and even get a pat on the backside every now and then. If I pat them on the butt, if they can handle that, then everything will be all right."

Dirk77
07-18-2002, 05:10 PM
Dee Kattner will probably be suing "oh, they fired me because im a woman!" Of course Dee, they COULDN'T of fired you b/c your a crappy ref now could they?

dallmav
07-18-2002, 08:28 PM
I agree that D Kanter really sucked. The best D Kanter highlight was the one where Don Nelson let her have it, and she threw him out. But on the other side of all of this. I think that about 30 percent of the referees suck and are biased. I also think that D. Stern has alot to do with how a game is called.

Murphy3
07-18-2002, 08:31 PM
well, dallmav..she sucked the most... so, it's a start