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View Full Version : Mutombo traded for Van Horn and MaCulloch


Hoopsmeister
08-06-2002, 05:12 PM
Seelenjager broke it first--but in a P.S. on a different thread and I think this deserves its own. From AP:

Center Dikembe Mutombo is going to New Jersey.

The Nets have acquired Mutombo from the Philadelphia 76ers in exchange for forward Keith Van Horn and center Todd MacCulloch, Sixers flagship radio station WIP reported Tuesday.

aexchange
08-06-2002, 05:23 PM
Sources: Mutombo Traded From 76ers

By ROB MAADDI
AP Sports Writer

PHILADELPHIA (AP) In a major trade involving the past two Eastern Conference champions, the Philadelphia 76ers sent center Dikembe Mutombo to the New Jersey Nets on Tuesday in exchange for Keith Van Horn and Todd MacCulloch, The Associated Press learned.

The deal, confirmed by numerous Eastern Conference officials, represents a major shakeup along the front line for both teams. It was to be officially announced Tuesday evening.

Mutombo, a 7-foot-2 center who led the NBA in rebounding in 1999-00 and 2000-01, was acquired by the 76ers at the trading deadline in 2001 and helped them reach the NBA Finals. He signed a lucrative extension prior to the 2001-02 season and is due to receive almost $54 million over the next three seasons.

Mutombo will play center for New Jersey in place of MacCulloch, who was a teammate of Mutombo's in Philadelphia before signing with the Nets a year ago as a free agent. The center position was a weak spot for the Nets when they reached the NBA Finals in June and were unable to stop Shaquille O'Neal of the Lakers.

Van Horn was chosen by Philadelphia with the overall No. 2 pick in the 1997 draft but was immediately shipped to the Nets in an eight-player trade. He averaged a career-low 14.8 points per game last season and was conspicuously ineffective during several postseason games.

Although the 76ers are giving up one of the game's best defenders and rebounders, they are reacquiring a player who is coming off his best professional season. MacCulloch, a native of Canada, averaged 9.7 points and 6.1 rebounds in 62 games missing 20 games because of a foot injury that also will keep him out of the upcoming World Championships.

The addition of Van Horn gives the 76ers another scorer who can at least in theory take some of the offensive burden off Allen Iverson. Since Iverson was drafted in 1996, the 76ers have tried to use Jerry Stackhouse, Tim Thomas, Larry Hughes, Toni Kukoc and others in that role.

Van Horn, a gifted shooter whose toughness has been questioned, averaged a career-high 21.8 points for New Jersey in 1999. He was among the longest-tenured members of the Nets, who made it to the NBA Finals for the first time in franchise history after joining the league 26 years ago.

Mutombo has spent 11 seasons in the NBA with Denver, Atlanta and Philadelphia, leading the league in blocked shots in 1993-94, 1994-95 and 1995-96 and rebounding in 1999-00 and 2000-01.

Mutombo averaged only 8.8 points in the 76ers' first-round playoff loss to Boston last April.

seelenjaeger
08-06-2002, 05:30 PM
uhm ... are the nets already rebuilding or what the hell should this trade do for them???

they have a severe lack of depth, and now after adressing their woes of a PG backup they are suddenly rather thin upfront (or do they expect Feick to come back?) ...

Id say good trade for Philly - theyre back in business now ... Big Mac has proven to be a valuable big man in the East, and KvH might help on offense

aexchange
08-06-2002, 05:31 PM
they will move jefferson into the SF spot vacated by van horn. martin will start at PF. mutombo at C. and i'd imagine they can plug harris or sign somebody to fill the SG spot.

Fidel
08-06-2002, 05:36 PM
Horrible trade for the Nets IMO. Mutombo is getting too old. It allready showed last year and he will continue to decline. Perhaps the trade is really about the future. What are the contract situations for the players involved? What about Kidds contract? Im too lazy to look it up.

TheKid
08-06-2002, 05:40 PM
I think this trade is a ONE YEAR trade. They know they are going to have to make another run at a championship THIS YEAR to keep Kidd happy so that he'll resign with them. If it doesn't work out and Kidd jumps ship after this season, they're going to do something to get rid of Mutombo..

MavKikiNYC
08-06-2002, 05:43 PM
Excellent trade for Nets. Wish Mavs had been more interested in Mutombo.
KVH/TMc is not all that different a package from NVE/Laf.

Nets weren't likely to go as far again with KVH and Todd. In fact, chances were good that KVH had peaked with Nets. Good situation for him to get out of Jersey--or is it out of the K-Mart frying pan and into the Iverson fire?

Mutombo gives them tougher more consistent defense for next year. They may not get back to the Finals, but I think Mutombo gives them a chance to go further than KVH/TMc.

Drbio
08-06-2002, 05:45 PM
KVH/TMc is not all that different a package from NVE/Laf.

I wouldn't have traded NVE and Raef for Mutumbo to be sure!

Hoopsmeister
08-06-2002, 05:49 PM
<< I think this trade is a ONE YEAR trade. They know they are going to have to make another run at a championship THIS YEAR to keep Kidd happy so that he'll resign with them. If it doesn't work out and Kidd jumps ship after this season, they're going to do something to get rid of Mutombo.. >>



I still think its a bad trade. Mutombo was starting to show his age this last season, and the year before that he demonstrated (if there was ever any question) that he was not a Shaq stopper. He played Shaq as well as anybody in the league does but Shaq still got his and the 76ers still lost. Mutombo is better than MacCulloch--but will be out of the league in a year or two. And more importantly, he doesn't address one of the Nets biggest issues which is that they don't have any clutch scoring. Van Horn wasn't the answer there, but he was better than nothing which is what the Nets got here since Mutombo-MacCulloch is an offensive wash.

MFFL
08-06-2002, 05:53 PM
Why do the top teams in the East always think Mutombo will put them over the top?

MavKikiNYC
08-06-2002, 05:55 PM
Hoops--

Nets can take the chance that Kings/Mavs/Spurs will knock off the Lakers, and then Mutombo matches up more favorably with Divac/LaF/DRob.

I think Mutombo can still be a defensive presence, a force even, in the Eastern Conference.

This is not likely to be a champsionship-making move. But it does strengthen them marginally in the short-term.

Fidel
08-06-2002, 06:17 PM
Kidd probably told them he wont resign or they fear he wont. So they try to make a push this year. Anyways, like I said, Mutombo isnt all that good any more. Hes old. Bad trade for the Nets.

Just211
08-06-2002, 07:14 PM
Aren't the Nets a quick pace, up and down team similar to the Mavs. How in the hell is DEKE gonna run with Kidd, Jefferson, Kenyon, and Kittles. He's not. He helps the D, but kills the offensive flow, similar to Bradley.

David
08-06-2002, 08:41 PM
Terrible trade for the Nets. They should have just signed Ewing if they wanted someone old and washed up that played at Georgetown.

FilthyFinMavs
08-06-2002, 09:25 PM
<< Aren't the Nets a quick pace, up and down team similar to the Mavs. How in the hell is DEKE gonna run with Kidd, Jefferson, Kenyon, and Kittles. He's not. He helps the D, but kills the offensive flow, similar to Bradley. >>




New Jersey is half and half. With a pg like JKIDD they can do either. This trade I can actually say was a stupid move for Nets. Unless Mutombo contract ends up next season then this trade makes zero sense. Mutombo still has it and if u wanna go by talent then this is a good trade but there is already reports of Mutombo being over 40 and with that being said u get a serviceable center in Macullough who will be returning and KVH who was drafted by 6ers then traded for Tim THomas can finally fit 6ers puzzle for there small foward need after stack left. Great trade and great off season for 6ers. 6ers have to have the best off season so far.

scooterj5
08-07-2002, 03:04 AM
THat's an amazing trade for the Nets. Keith Van Horn has been playing way too softly, his teammates were simply sick of him (and he had a large contract) and Tmac2 overachieved last year, as decent as he is. If it's quality versus quantity, in the NBA quality wins. Great trade for the Nets, so so for the Sixers.

Usually Lurkin
08-07-2002, 07:23 AM
I think both teams do well in this. Sixers are still in love with mcculloch, and pick up a starting sf. They also get rid of the old man who was just looking tired. I haven't seen a lot of the nets, but understand that jefferson was going to be competing with van horn for starting position, anyway, and that some folks there are dissappointed with van horn. The old man should help them compete against anyone who is not LA. Things will go bad if KMart decides he can disrespect Deke, too.

From the nets point of view, it still seems that this must have something to do with keeping kidd.

MavKikiNYC
08-07-2002, 08:59 AM
Iverson was rumored to be impatient with Harpring at times last year. The AI/KVH dynamic should be toasty.

TheKid
08-07-2002, 09:25 AM
Well for the people that says the Nets run too much and are too much of an up and down team. It's not like McCullough was known for his ability to run the floor and he seemed to be able to get up and down the floor just fine.

MavKikiNYC
08-07-2002, 09:52 AM
Exactly, Kid.

If anything, Mutombo's presence defensively (shot blocking AND rebounding) will create that many more fast break opportunites for Kidd, Kittles, Jefferson and Martin.

How many times do you see centers hauling butt down the floor on a break anyway? And how many 5-man breaks? Nets will do fine with Deke hanging back.

kg_veteran
08-07-2002, 01:01 PM
This is a bad trade for the Nets. Sure, their defense and rebounding will be improved, but why does a team that has a problem finding people to score clutch baskets trade one of their better scorers? Sure, Van Horn wasn't a great player, but he was another offensive option.

I think the move does make the Nets a better running team, because it forces Jefferson into the starting role at SF. And I've heard that Jefferson's having a great summer league, so maybe they're banking on the guy making a big sophomore improvement. But as we've found out, painfully, you don't win by running in the playoffs. The Nets have no one that can really score consistently in the halfcourt game.

This is also not necessarily a good trade for the Sixers. Sure, they dumped the 95 year old Mutombo, but what did they acquire? His former backup and a fair SF? They'd have been better off re-signing Matt Harpring.

And here's an interesting thought: The Sixers dealt Kukoc, Ratliff and Mohammed to get Mutombo. I don't think Mutombo really helped them, because they probably make it to the Finals without him. And now, two years later, they dump Mutombo and acquire MacCulloch and Van Horn? Would you deal Kukoc, Ratliff and Mohammed for MacCulloch and Van Horn? I wouldn't.

Net (no pun intended) loss for both teams.

scooterj5
08-07-2002, 04:12 PM
If you followed the Nets you'd realise KVH is not a 'scoring option' but a huge pain in the neck, everyone was sick of his soft attitude. They can throw Richard Jefferson in, a better defender and a scorer, and actually be improved at the 3.

MavKikiNYC
08-07-2002, 04:19 PM
I liked KVH as a player with the Nets, and kept hoping that he'd take off and be a consistent producer. But you could never be sure if he was going to show up or not. Would like to see him get more favorable opportunity, but kinda wonder if Philly is it.

You're right about Jefferson though, Scooter--at least defensively. Nets should be better defensively, but I think it's a little bit of a projection (i.e., guess) to say that he'll match KVH as an offensive threat. He's probably a better open court player, but I didn't see him shoot well enough to say that he'll match KVH's production. Apparently Scott and Thorn think he can grow into the position.

MavKikiNYC
08-08-2002, 08:22 AM
Interesting post-script to the Mutombo deal.....

Knicks Said to Let Deal for Mutombo Slip Away
By CHRIS BROUSSARD


The Knicks spent yesterday completing a deal with the reserve center Michael Doleac. But two high-ranking Eastern Conference officials said the Knicks could have spent the day introducing the eight-time All-Star center Dikembe Mutombo as their newest player.

Without disrupting the nucleus of Antonio McDyess, Latrell Sprewell and Allan Houston, the Knicks could have acquired Mutombo. But Scott Layden, the Knicks' general manager, rejected an offer from the Philadelphia 76ers that would have brought Mutombo to New York for Kurt Thomas, Travis Knight and Charlie Ward, said the two officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Unable to come to terms with the Knicks, Philadelphia traded Mutombo to the Nets on Tuesday for Keith Van Horn and Todd MacCulloch.

&quot;Billy King couldn't believe that Layden rejected the offer,&quot; one official said, referring to Philadelphia's general manager. &quot;If the Knicks had been willing to do it, the 76ers would not have made the deal with the Nets.&quot;

Philadelphia was willing to make the seemingly lopsided trade, which would have met the financial stipulations of the N.B.A.'s collective bargaining agreement, because it had another deal worked out.

After making the trade with the Knicks, the 76ers were going to trade Derrick Coleman and a couple of the newly acquired Knicks to another team. The officials did not know which Knicks would have been traded from Philadelphia, or the identity of the other team.

After hearing rumblings about the Nets' deal with Philadelphia, Layden called King Tuesday evening to try to rekindle the trade talks. But the 76ers' deal with the Nets had been completed.

&quot;By then it was too late,&quot; one of the officials said.

King would not comment on his discussions with the Knicks, but he confirmed that the clubs had talked. Layden would not comment when asked whether the Knicks had come close to trading for Mutombo.

&quot;We don't discuss our discussions with other teams,&quot; Layden said. &quot;Right now, that's the Nets team and you wish them well.&quot;

Layden did say that he thought the trade was an outstanding one for the Nets.

&quot;When you look at the Nets adding Mutombo to their great team, certainly they've done a lot to help themselves,&quot; he said. &quot;Dikembe is a premier player in the middle and can dominate play on the defensive end. You have to give them credit.&quot;

One Eastern Conference general manager who had not heard about Philadelphia's offer to the Knicks said the scenario sounded feasible because Coleman has only one year left on his five-year, $50 million contract. &quot;It makes sense because Coleman has some real value now since he's in the last year of his contract,&quot; the general manager said. &quot;A lot of teams want guys in the last year of their contracts because of the luxury tax.&quot;

The general manager added that Layden's well-known penchant for patience apparently hurt the Knicks. &quot;That's always his thing he's so patient,&quot; the general manager said. &quot;In this case, his patience has probably cost him a little bit.&quot;

Apparently, Layden believes the Mutombo is on the decline. He averaged career lows in rebounds (10.8) and blocked shots (2.38) last season and at times had trouble catching the ball.

Still, the addition of Mutombo might have made the Knicks a legitimate contender in the East. With Mutombo, one of the game's best rebounders and shot blockers, at center and McDyess at power forward, the Knicks would have been able to get away with an undersized small forward like Sprewell. Houston and Howard Eisley would have rounded out a starting five that would have been among the most formidable in the conference.

The Nets and the 76ers initially began talking about a deal involving Mutombo on draft night. The Nets were willing to trade Van Horn and Aaron Williams to Philadelphia, but the 76ers were hesitant. Then the 76ers called the Nets last weekend with a change of heart.

The deal was going to be for Van Horn and Williams, but on Monday night, Philadelphia asked for MacCulloch instead of Williams.

The Nets, who have made what appears to be two excellent off-season moves in acquiring Mutombo and Chris Childs, are not done. They are making a strong run at the free-agent forward Rodney Rogers, and could sign him before the weekend. The Nets have offered Rogers, who played for the Boston Celtics last season, a multiyear deal beginning at $2.7 million for next season. Signing Rogers, who is a terrific outside shooter, would strengthen the Nets' one remaining weakness.

Meanwhile, the Knicks signed Doleac, 25, to a three-year deal that is believed to be worth about $5 million. A decent rebounder with good range on his jump shot, Doleac, 6 feet 11 inches and 262 pounds, will probably be the backup for Thomas.

Doleac averaged 4.6 points and 4.0 rebounds last season for the Cleveland Cavaliers but missed 34 games because of a broken left ankle.

&quot;It's a good signing for us because it addresses several needs,&quot; Layden said. &quot;One is size. We're bringing in a player who's got good size, good experience in the league, and he's a very young player. And the fact that Michael is a good outside shooter and can help us on the perimeter understanding that Antonio plays well in the post will give us another player who can knock down an outside shot.&quot;

But not another player who can block an inside shot, like Mutombo.

REBOUNDS

JASON KIDD released a statement through his agent, JEFF SCHWARTZ, yesterday on the Nets trade for DIKEMBE MUTOMBO. &quot;I am very excited about the opportunity to play with Dikembe,&quot; Kidd said. &quot;It is not every day that you can add an All-Star player, let alone a defensive player of the year. I will miss playing with both KEITH and TODD and wish them the best in Philadelphia. They were an integral part of helping us reach the finals last year.&quot;

MavKikiNYC
08-08-2002, 08:34 AM
Observation:

The Nets had Mutombo's value at either KVH and Aaron Williams, or KVH and TMc, as the deal went down.

The Sixers were putting Mutombo's value at KT, Chollie, and Travis Knight.

The proposal from some poster on this site (and others) has been NVE for KT/Chollie.

Disregarding salary matches and considering only ability, would anyone here have traded NVE &amp; /(Esch or Mantis) for:

KVH/Aaron Williams?

KVH/TMc?