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View Full Version : There are many fouls and free throws in the game


Chiwas
09-26-2002, 09:36 AM
I don't like there are so many fouls and so many free throws in each NBA basketball game.

I don't have a suggestion to decrease the many fouls issue but I think there are several things to do about eliminate at least 50% of the free throws. Think in Hockey.

When there are free throws, specially three (who the hell invented that?), I change the channel and watch commercials, they are better.

MavsManiac
09-26-2002, 09:51 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one, Chiwas...

Free throw shooting displays one of the most basic skills of basketball: shooting at an open basket with nobody in your face.

The part that should make you turn the channel isn't that there are free throws being shot, but the fact that (aside from the Mavericks well-coached team) the amount of free throws MISSED. Think Shaq.

The 3 freethrow foul is essential to any league that has a 3-point shot. If a team needs 3 points to tie late, and a guy is shooting a 3 pointer, the easiest thing to do would be to foul him if he only got 2 shots as a result. This keeps the defense honest & the game a little more pure.

As for the number of fouls called, I just wish the CORRECT calls would be made at all times.

Want to know what makes me turn the channel? Kobe Bryant taking 7 steps on his way to a dunk... Shaq bowling over guys without a offensive foul call for a dunk...

Fouls & Free Throws are an essential part of basketball.

Although, thinking Hockey... a penalty box might be fun for flagrant fouls i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Usually Lurkin
09-26-2002, 11:26 AM
<< Although, thinking Hockey... a penalty box might be fun for flagrant fouls i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif >>


-and the rolling substitution, or whatever you call it. That'd be fun.

I do agree with Chiwas, though. THere are too many fouls called (comitted), and it can bore up a game in the final minutes. How about making the penalty for comitting a foul greater? Penalty box for any foul? Each foul is worth twice as many free throws in the final minutes? No free throws, but possession and a new 24?

MavKikiNYC
09-26-2002, 11:43 AM
So...maybe we should worry about the Steve Javies and the Dee Kanters (may her career rest in peace) getting the RIGHT call and enforcing rules the same way from game to game, BEFORE penalizing players/teams more severely with missed calls.

Think about the flagrant foul calls--I think the suggestion of making the team who commits a flagrant play short for a few minutes is interesting--i.e., have the foul-committing player sit out for a couple of minutes or so without allowing a sub in, and have them go 4 on 5.

But we've also seen variaition in the way flagrants are called--depending on the officials, depending on the teams, depending on the players involved, depending on whether it's a playoff game or not. Sometimes the officials get over-sensitive about the flagrant-foul issue, and call good, hard, clean fouls as flagrants. Increasing the penalty for a flagrant would just increase the negative effect on the game of poor officiating.

Maybe this playing short could be enforced for Flagrant 2s, or something..

In the little bit of the World Championships that I saw, I felt like they called the games looser. True there was some erratic officiating, but it seemed more random, not the product of star treatment. I would like to see the NBA go this way--fewer fouls, even for the superstars, and just let them all play. The NBA, however, seems to want higher-scoring games now, and the system of star treatment affords them both the ability to influence the outcome of games, AND the ability to manufacture and promote stars.

At some point, they will have to consider the integrity of the sport. They're probably not there yet, but they're closer than they've been in a long time.

Chiwas
09-26-2002, 11:50 AM
Could be splitt the screen in two during the free throws and watch the Dallas Dancers in the other half screen? We'd need to talk with the broadcasters.

A penalty box for a flagrant foul is good idea.

Call a foul on Shaq every time he touches an arm or hand from opponent is obligatory. I think the NBA has problems taking such a decision with this issue.

Double points in the final two or so minutes for free throws or the possession and 24 are good ones. Or one free throw and the possession.

What about to lessen the 6 get out fouls to 5?

I like the penalty box because players'd try to make less fouls and 'cause the bench would play more minutes.

But in technical fouls I'd like to see two free throws.

OutletPass
09-26-2002, 12:32 PM
What a great subject...a pet peeve here. Agree completely about &quot;star calls&quot;, Shaq and Kobe, uneven officiating...so let's go back to 5 fouls and you're out. Love the other variations to, but I do want to see 5 on 5...this isn't hockey.

Let the fans officiate...the only way to keep Raef in the game and Shaq out !!

MavsManiac
09-26-2002, 12:33 PM
ouch... playing a man short in hoops would be deadly! Talk about increasing the scoring... that's one way they could do it...

I agree completely with ya, Kiki, on the refs... although they're human and prone to mistakes now &amp; then, there is far, far too much &quot;personal&quot; factored into their calls... they need to be more like surgeons, ya know, basically robots that go in do their job w/o factoring in emotions

Usually Lurkin
09-26-2002, 12:53 PM
<< Let the fans officiate...the only way to keep Raef in the game and Shaq out !! >>


ha ha! when the boos reach a predefined decibel level, other team gets free throws?

What exactly has Cuban been pushing?
Pay incentives for refs based on good call/bad call ratios - every game reviewed by an outside panel?

MavKikiNYC
09-26-2002, 01:01 PM
<< &lt;&lt; Let the fans officiate...the only way to keep Raef in the game and Shaq out !! &gt;&gt;

&lt;&lt;ha ha! when the boos reach a predefined decibel level, other team gets free throws?&gt;&gt; >>



Now THIS sounds like Cuban--Interacitve/Fan Participation Officiating.

MavKikiNYC
10-07-2002, 07:17 PM
Quoting myself from earlier in this thread:

&quot;The NBA, however, seems to want higher-scoring games now, and the system of star treatment affords them both the ability to influence the outcome of games, AND the ability to manufacture and promote stars.

Came across a somewhat interesting account of the league's shift from marketing The Game to marketing The Players. Don't agree with everything this guy has to say, but it's something to think about.



&lt;&lt; In the long view, however, all of the on-court, off-court, and in-court woes of the NBA have a common historical cause -- David Stern's implementation of the Superstar Syndrome way back in the 1980s.

At the time, the NBA was in turmoil. Many of its players were abusing drugs, and such standouts as Terry Furlow, and &quot;Fast&quot; Eddie Johnson would soon succumb to overdoses. Also, attendance and TV ratings were down. The NBA's fan base was predominantly white, and they resented the preponderance of blacks on the teams' rosters (84 percent in that last pre-Magic-&amp;-Bird season). The 1978-79 New York Knicks were publicly referred to as the &quot;Niggerbockers,&quot; and the NBA was widely regarded as an &quot;outlaw&quot; league.

Then the crafty Red Auerbach drafted Larry Bird (first round, No. 6 overall) in 1978, even though &quot;The Hick from French Lick&quot; had another year of eligibility at Indiana State. And the Lakers made Magic the top pick in the 1979 draft.

With the spotlight on Bird and Magic in that momentous 1979-80 season, commissioner David Stern decreed that the NBA's marketing strategy be shifted from &quot;The Game&quot; to &quot;The Players.&quot; And lo, the personifications of country grit and city slick saved the NBA. Ever since then, the sad reality has been that the NBA is in the business of promoting players -- Kobe, His Airness, The Mailman, The Admiral, Air Canada and The Big Aristotle. And ever since then, most devoted denizens of Sports America have defined professional basketball strictly in terms of spectacular shot-makers, long-range bombers, passing fancies, hocus-pocus dribblers, and a parade of merry dunksters.

So, two NBA-generations removed from The Magic Man and Larry Legend, who are the modern-day players? What have they become? Arrogant, multitalented chest-beaters and woofers. Irresponsible and irrepressible, too-much-too-soon, millionaire hooplings, who have been conditioned and encouraged to believe only in their own talents, and to blame others for any failures. A league full of knuckleheads and gun-toting, faux gangstas routinely glorified by the NBA's publicity machine.


Larry Bird and Magic Johnson made David Stern's &quot;superstar theory&quot; work beautifully.
This celebration and promotion of the league's players necessarily has led to inflated salaries, which led to inflated egos, which led to bogus self-justifications for rude, crude behavior, which led to a macho elitism, the elevation of style over substance, an utter disregard for team play and a belief that a haphazard collection of NBA All-Stars could overcome any team of &quot;civilians&quot; just by throwing their jocks on the floor.

Wrong!

And this time around, instead of a wholesome pair of All-American saviors on the horizon, the troubled NBA is offering Yao Ming (who is, at best, an Occidental version of Primo Carnera). That's why, love it or hate it, the league is at another crossroads.


The Link (http://msn.espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/021002.html)

Chiwas
10-09-2002, 05:13 PM
I haven't had time to read the article, but I'll do. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Returning to the free throws, one more comment: I HATE JASON KIDD WHEN HE SHOOTS FREE THROWS. In those moments I prefer to watch soccer! (I like to see Kidd playing, but I don't like players who employ too much time for free throws, and less if they send kisses to the basket).i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif

Chiwas
10-11-2002, 09:35 AM
How could Bradley have 5 fouls in one quarter?

As Drbio says, if refers were fair, Shaquile must be out in 2 minutes.