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MavsFanFinley
11-08-2002, 01:10 AM
I was watching the news and saw where Michigan is taking away the victories and banners from the gym, all media guides, etc for the years that Webber was part of the program for taking money.

MavsRich
11-08-2002, 03:07 AM
Now now, it wasn't just Webber, it was also 3 other players as well. That's what I saw on ESPNews anyway.

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2002, 11:09 AM
Yeah, I know.

I should have included that, but since I live near Sacramento, they were only talking about it in concerns with Webber, etc.

Dooby
11-08-2002, 12:48 PM
Don't forget Juwan, too.

Drbio
11-08-2002, 01:28 PM
The school forfeited a bunch of games. I think if players likie She-web and Howard are caught red-handed that they should have to pay reparations to the University.

steveoglass
11-11-2002, 08:45 PM
It is a sad day here in michigan. Believe me. But the program deserves it. THe NCAA may lay down even more hurt. We'll have to see. I would have been bummed years ago, but now I am more angry. This only adds to my hatered for Chris Webber.

David
11-11-2002, 09:56 PM
Dick Vitale made an excellent point on ESPN the other day. Why do the CURRENT Michigan players have to suffer for what went on so long ago? The current guys had nothing to do with it yet THEY are being penalized.

Evilmav2
11-12-2002, 12:43 AM
Dick Vitale made an excellent point on ESPN the other day. Why do the CURRENT Michigan players have to suffer for what went on so long ago? The current guys had nothing to do with it yet THEY are being penalized.


Well maybe those poor players should have gone to another school... This isn't about the current players, it is about the school. Michigan basketball is a multi-million dollar enterprise that profitted from the corruption of Fischer's program, and now is the time to pay to piper. Supposedly the school could sue Webber/Howard/Rose or whoever else was involved... But something tells me that the administration or athletic office might have been a little more complicit in the corruption than is widely known- a complicity that would be a quite embarassing liability in a court of law.. Michigan profitted from the "Fab Five" corruption, and they don't have any reason to cry about it now...

David
11-12-2002, 06:42 AM
<< Dick Vitale made an excellent point on ESPN the other day. Why do the CURRENT Michigan players have to suffer for what went on so long ago? The current guys had nothing to do with it yet THEY are being penalized.


Well maybe those poor players should have gone to another school... >>



That's assinine. Do you think the current students at Michigan knew, ahead of time, that the school would be on probation? That's like your older brother getting busted for drugs and they give you jail time for being related to him. It makes no sense.

MavKikiNYC
11-12-2002, 07:45 AM
How about just giving current Michigan players a relase from their scholarships, and the ability to transfer to another program without losing any eligibility. Maybe have them sit out a year, but no loss of eligibility.

MavKikiNYC
11-12-2002, 07:47 AM
<< The school forfeited a bunch of games. I think if players likie She-web and Howard are caught red-handed that they should have to pay reparations to the University. >>



Hell, yes. With Webber's, Howard's and Rose's contracts, the school ought to be able to pursue damages.

dirksgirl41
11-12-2002, 11:12 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see one source state that Juwan Howard was involved.

Big Boy Laroux
11-12-2002, 12:22 PM
<< How about just giving current Michigan players a relase from their scholarships, and the ability to transfer to another program without losing any eligibility. Maybe have them sit out a year, but no loss of eligibility. >>



that's a good point, kiki. doesn't the NCAA normally allow that under these circumstances? I am 95% sure that happened with Kentucky back in the late 80s/early 90s, and a number of players elected to stay.

Drbio
11-12-2002, 01:32 PM
Although the current players suffer, the penalty is to the school. The school should take measures to ensure that this crap doesn't happen. Most schools know who the suspects are....it's not some closely guarded secret in most cases. If the school doesn't prevent it (and historically many do not) then the school gets punished. It does suck that the current players that had NOTHING to do with it are affected, but it is the best way right now.

I like the release idea Kiki. Good stuff.

mcsluggo
11-14-2002, 07:17 PM
<< The school forfeited a bunch of games. I think if players likie She-web and Howard are caught red-handed that they should have to pay reparations to the University. >>



this is an incredibly interesting assertion. Players at big-time sports universities should have to pay the schools for damages done by taking around $70k each from a &quot;booster&quot; (which is NOT illegal, by the way, just against NCAA rules)

Yes, Michegan is SOOOOOOOO victimized by their association with college basketball players, who they earn MILLIONS off of and pay zero in return. Poor little babies, they are going to have give back their tournament earnings (but NOT their gate receipts, radio/tv receipts or their increased &quot;booster&quot; contributions).

poor victimized little bunny rabbits. Perhaps the Tiennamin square hooligans' families can be forced to pay the Chinese army for the damage their skulls did to the tank tracks, those selfish bastards...

Drbio
11-14-2002, 07:34 PM
I think the university's should sue professional players that are caught like this. I know the universities are benefitting at some level, but there needs to be accountability.

mcsluggo
11-14-2002, 09:38 PM
at SOME level?!?!????


this and interns are the closest thing we have to institutionalized slavery in this country. But at least interns are fairly well guaranteed to get a high paying job as a result of their internships. Most college basketball players draw in huge levels of $$$ to their universities and then DON'T make it big in the nba.

MavKikiNYC
11-14-2002, 09:59 PM
<< Players at big-time sports universities should have to pay the schools for damages done by taking around $70k each from a &quot;booster&quot; (which is NOT illegal, by the way, just against NCAA rules) >>



I think it is illegal, isn't it? Don't some states have laws about these kinds of payments? Or does it only apply to agents/booster? In any case, where there is this much money involved, you can imagine that the money is often the least illegal thing going on.

Also, you have to wonder if the players paid taxes on the $70K. I'm guessing they didn't.

Drbio
11-14-2002, 11:34 PM
It is most definitely illegal. And the tax evasion angle is 100% correct as well.

As far as the college...you fail to recognize the college gives the player an education and opportunity to play. As such, they deserve to benefit as well.

Big Boy Laroux
11-15-2002, 10:23 AM
exactly. a FREE education, which many of the players don't even care about, as they leave school early.

hell, wish i had received an ABSOLUTELY FREE education because i played the game i love.

Hoopsmeister
11-15-2002, 12:42 PM
<< I think the university's should sue professional players that are caught like this. I know the universities are benefitting at some level, but there needs to be accountability. >>



Given that a court case would allow the player's lawyers to publicize the numbers of how much Michigan made off these players with little to no compensation from the university, no University's legal department would be stupid enough to file such a suit.

Hoopsmeister
11-15-2002, 12:48 PM
<< It is most definitely illegal. And the tax evasion angle is 100% correct as well.

As far as the college...you fail to recognize the college gives the player an education and opportunity to play. As such, they deserve to benefit as well. >>



Tax evasion is illegal. And Webber was stupid to perjure himself trying to retain his squeeky clean image. But there is nothing illegal about the money itself for either the players or the agents/boosters. Its only against NCAA rules which are designed to allow a multi-million dollar business access to cheap labor. Check the graduation rates on athletes from big programs--whether they go on to the pros or not. They are abysmal. And even for the athletes who do get the whole 4 years, the return to the university vs. the expenditure on 4 years of education is ridiculously weighted to the university compared to what they would have to pay these guys in a free market.

MavKikiNYC
11-15-2002, 01:31 PM
Maybe they should pay these guys as university employees--fundraisers, public-relations types--maybe at a salary higher than a graduate teaching assitant (talk about slavery), but lower than an average Assistant Professor's salary.

Perhaps the players could also be allowed a portion of shoe and sporting goods contracts as an additional incentive, as well as their own radio/TV spots, and endorsements.

The players would be responsible for their own personal maintenance, room &amp; board, a portion of their health insurance, and if they wanted to attend classes to better themselves, tuition fees would come out of their own pockets. They wouldn't necessarily have to attend classes if they didn't feel like it furthered their career, however.

I'm not sure how the university would limit the amount of time these guys would be hired for, but there would have to be some mechanism to keep the universities from fielding semi-pro teams made up of second-, third- and fourth- tier talent 27 and 28 year olds.

Not a perfect plan, but something along these lines?

David
11-16-2002, 07:30 PM
I was watching ESPN and they had some kind of bit going with a telephone answering machine. Naturally it was sports related. A message was left for Webber. A good news, bad news message. The bad news was, Michigan had to forfit all those games. The good news is, the time-out that cost Michigan the national championship was also wiped out.