View Full Version : Sloan got 7 games????
01-29-2003, 06:14 PM
I saw this in ESPN.com. Jerry Sloan just got suspended for 7 games for shoving a jackass... my bad, zebra in Arco.
Dang... the commish is really raining down his wrath nowadays.
The ref was a Jackass. No doubt. But Sloan still shouldn't have pushed him. Don't think the punishment is unjust for Sloan, but the ref should get punished for his part also. That's where the league is screwing up. Throw the book at Sloan for crossing the line, but throw it at the ref for crossing the line as well.
01-29-2003, 06:25 PM
They had to make Sloan's punishment parallel to Wallace's for PR reasons.
Stern, Jackson, Rush are all chumps.
<< Stern, Jackson, Rush are all chumps. >>
Jackson, Stern, Rush = Larry, Moe, and Curly?
01-29-2003, 07:11 PM
I know Sloan was wrong, you just don't touch the ref, but 7 games??
I can't believe he was given more games than Artest. Only for the fact that Artest has a history of acting up, especially this year.
01-29-2003, 07:14 PM
Stu Jackson, ..Stu Jackson.....Stu Jackson....
Oh wait...isn't this the same former abject failure of an NBA executive with the Vancouver Grizzlies whose teams Sloan used to regularly kick the tar out of?
And now he's lording over his former peers?
Boggles the mind.
Wisen up, Stern.
MFF I think part of the reason Sloan got so much is that he is a coach and in management. But Artest is a real bonehead and doesn't seem to be learning with the penalities that he's been getting so far. So you make a good point to stiffen up his penalities.
01-29-2003, 07:18 PM
The only thing I can think of that may be the reason for so many games is the fact that he didn't leave in a timely manner. However, it still seems like a lot IMO.
01-29-2003, 07:44 PM
Hey what the f*ck is up with the refs lately? they've been screwing up games for alot of teams and i wouldnt be surprised if one of these days someone knocks out a ref.
<< I know Sloan was wrong, you just don't touch the ref, but 7 games??
I can't believe he was given more games than Artest. Only for the fact that Artest has a history of acting up, especially this year. >>
totall unjust that artest got only 4 games. but i guess his presence does provide a spark for the pacers. they're getting killed by the spurs right now, down 10 halfway into the third, in indiana.
01-29-2003, 10:06 PM
who was the baseball manager that was suspended 30 games for shoving an umpire...was it rose?
01-29-2003, 11:07 PM
there has been an unusual amount of suspensions lately
There has also been an unusual amount of bonehead behavior lately. Some of it by the refs.
01-30-2003, 11:38 AM
This Sloan suspension really pisses me off. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Jazz, but Sloan is a classy coach. What is it, fifteen or so straight years in the play-offs and he's never gotten coach of the year? I saw a replay the other day and clearly, Bibby stepped out of bounds, and then the ref got in Jerry's face. These refs have got to be accountable for their actions as well. Seven games is overkill and is the politically correct thing to do because of Wallace's suspension. What a bunch of pansies.
01-30-2003, 12:01 PM
For the record, this is Sloan's SECOND offense. Sloans temper is well known as a player and as a coach. He seemed to mellow out after his wife's cancer ordeal but it's always been there. Some story had a quote that stated that there's a double standard when it comes to Sloan. Sloan is considered a "fierce competitor" while Artest is considered "crazy". IMO what Sloan did was much worse. He deserved what he got.
01-30-2003, 12:16 PM
I completely disagree West. Artest destroyed a television camera worth over a hundred grrr. He's Wallace crazy. Sloan had a bumping incident back in the day but he's not out head butting refs Rodman style (Rodman received a lesser penalty for that one by the way). The league is completely arbitrary and inconsistent. This was way overboard, IMO.
01-30-2003, 01:16 PM
If you don't see the difference between attacking an inanimate object and a ref then I don't know what to tell you. Wallace, until recently, doesn't try to hurt or even go after players or refs. It's usually his mouth or stares that get him into trouble so there's no comparrison. Sheeds recent suspension should quantify the reason for the length of Sloan's punishment. Artest didn't make the kind of contact with Riley that even compares with the contact that Sloan made to with the ref.
Not to mention coaches should be held to a higher standard.
01-30-2003, 03:08 PM
I guess we agree that we disagree. Sloan's push was to get the ref out of his face and was hardly an attack. I don't blame him for that. Artest is showing a pattern of disruptive behavior, and if you don't see the difference, "then I don't know what to tell you". Rasheed's punishment was a direct result of him seeking out the referee AFTERthe game was over, and cocking his fist back as if he was going to hit him. I think there's a world of difference.
Coaches are no different than anyone else when a smartass ref gets in your face to patronize you.
01-30-2003, 03:20 PM
I think Marty Burns puts it more eloquently.
SI's Marty Burns tackles three issues from around the league:
Robert Laberge/Getty Images
Call it a Rasheed Reaction. Had Blazers forward Rasheed Wallace not recently been hit with a seven-game suspension for threatening a ref, the NBA probably would not have come down so hard on Sloan. The league is already sensitive about its inconsistent approach to punishing players, so it doesn’t want to be seen as favoring coaches.
Clearly, Sloan deserved a fine and suspension. He crossed the line when he gave a one-handed shove to official Courtney Kirkland, and then later motioned for him to follow him to the locker room. The NBA can’t tolerate physical contact to referees.
But seven games? For a little push from a 60-year-old veteran coach in front of 17,000 witnesses? Does this really warrant the same punishment as a 6-foot-11 player threatening a referee off the court, away from the eyes of the public?
Also, in Sloan’s case, the official deserves part of the blame for letting the incident get out of hand. NBA refs are instructed to move away from the scene when there is a confrontation. Kirkland chose to stay right in Sloan’s face.
Jazz fans shouldn’t cry over this decision. Sloan is a big boy who should have known better. But the fact that their coach won’t be on the bench for seven games –- instead of say, four -– had more to do with what happened in Portland two weeks ago than in Sacramento on Tuesday night.
01-30-2003, 03:33 PM
<< For the record, this is Sloan's SECOND offense >>
Yeah, the last one occured in 1993. The current 'offense' occurred 'in the heat of battle' as it were, in reaction to a blatantly missed call by an official, who then proceeded to aggressively and confrontationally engage Sloan, who reacted with minor physical contact.
By comparison, Artest's record over the last 30 days includes an ejection and $10,000 fine for starting a fight with Raja Bell; destroying a $60,000 camera in an emotional outburst after a loss to the NYKs for which he was suspended; causing an injury to the Heat's Caron Butler as the result of a flagrant foul; engaging Heat assistant coach Ketih Askins; initiating physical contact with Heat coach Pat Riley; flipping off the Miami crowd.
Wallace, by way of further comparison, has a record of aggressive conduct toward officials dating back at least 3 years, resulting in a record accumulation of technical fouls. He himself was involved in a physical altercation with fans at Golden State following a recent Portland game. He then accosted and threatened an official AFTER a game, and had to be restrained physically to prevent violent contact.
Even taking into account the supposed differing standards of conduct for coaches and players, the record of Sloan in comparison those of Artest and Wallace does not jusitfy the disproportionate penalty.
The NBA has an officiating problem, and it's getting worse not better. Unless and until the league takes steps to improve the quality and consistency of officiating, and eliminate aggressively confrontational officals like Kirkland, Javie and others, this type of frustration will not go away, but will continue to simmer and will eventually boil over to something worse. A figure like Jerry Sloan (or Pat Riley, or Don Nelson) has already contributed more to the league than some third-rate official like Courtney Kirkland EVER will. Suspending Sloan for 7 games is an overreaction. Failing to address the behavior of officials like Kirkland is a failure to act in the interest of the integrity of the game.
01-30-2003, 03:43 PM
Stu Jackson's quote below gets to the heart of the problem. First, he doesn't know the facts. Second, he denies the value of precedent. Third, his attitude shows a complete disregard for the concept of 'consistency' with the ultra-weak argument that "..each situation is considered on its own merits."
Sloan suspended for shoving official
Posted: Wednesday January 29, 2003 6:41 PM
Updated: Wednesday January 29, 2003 8:15 PM
NEW YORK (AP) -- Jazz coach Jerry Sloan was suspended seven games Wednesday by the NBA for shoving an official, a steep penalty that will keep him off the sidelines until the middle of February.
Sloan pushed referee Courtney Kirkland in the chest and was ejected during the first quarter of Utah's 102-92 victory at Sacramento on Tuesday night.
"Obviously his behavior was out of line, and the message is clear that that type of behavior cannot be tolerated," NBA vice president Stu Jackson said.
"The level of the suspension is in line with the behavior," Jackson said.
The suspension was one of the longest in recent years, including penalties against players who physically confronted referees.
Dennis Rodman was suspended for six games for headbutting an official in 1996, and Nick Van Exel drew a seven-game ban for forearming a referee into the scorer's table during that season.
Sloan's shove came after he argued vehemently that Kings guard Doug Christie had stepped out of bounds on the sideline near where Kirkland was standing. Sloan got down and put his hand on the spot where he thought Christie stepped out.
Sloan pushed Kirkland in the chest and was ejected. As Sloan was escorted away by arena security, he motioned for Kirkland to come toward him.
Jackson said he did not know the length of the longest coaching suspensions in NBA history.
"You can't talk about historical precedent because each situation is considered on its own merits," Jackson said.
Sloan began serving his suspension Wednesday night against Portland. He is ineligible to return until Utah's game Feb. 14 against Washington.
Sloan was fined $2,000 and suspended one game for bumping official Bob Delaney while arguing a non-call during a game against Phoenix in 1993.
In his 18th season as a head coach, his 15th with the Jazz, Sloan is one of only 10 coaches in NBA history with 800 victories.
01-30-2003, 05:12 PM
Sloan agrees with seven-game suspension
SALT LAKE CITY -- Jerry Sloan's schedule is open for the next two weeks.
The Utah Jazz coach who shoved an official Tuesday night at Sacramento apologized Thursday and said he agreed with the seven-game suspension that will keep him off the bench until mid-February.
"As a coach, obviously I did something wrong. Pushing an official, that is a no-no in this business,'' Sloan said.
Jazz players and management called the seven-game sentence excessive, but Sloan said if that's what the league felt was warranted, he would serve it without complaining. He did, however, say referee Courtney Kirkland could have handled the situation better Tuesday.
Sloan felt Sacramento's Doug Christie stepped out of bounds and was screaming at Kirkland when no call was made. Kirkland and Sloan got face-to-face as the argument intensified and Sloan gave Kirkland a one-handed shot to the chest, which promptly got the coach tossed from the game.
Sloan said Kirkland told him he wasn't "going to take that from you tonight.''
"Having that comment that was said to me, to me that's what pushed my button too far,'' Sloan said.
The Jazz rallied around Sloan on Thursday and wanted to know whether Kirkland also was punished.
"Seven games, that's a lot,'' Jazz forward Matt Harpring said. "We have to abide by certain rules. We get out of control, we get T'd up and we pay a fine. Officials screw up, we never know. Are they held accountable? Who knows. They might be. We never know.''
The league also gave the Jazz the option of fining Sloan, but the team will not do so, vice president for basketball operations Kevin O'Connor said Thursday.
"Jerry's been suspended for seven games by the league. We feel that's enough,'' O'Connor said. "I think he'd rather turn it around and pay and still be able to coach, but obviously we can't do that.''
Sloan was punished the same day Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest was suspended four games for a run-in with Heat coach Pat Riley and flashing an obscene gesture toward the crowd Monday. Artest also apologized for his actions.
The suspension was the second of Sloan's career. In 1993, he was fined $2,000 and suspended one game for bumping official Bob Delaney during an argument in a game against Phoenix.
During the suspension, which lasts until the Jazz host Washington on Feb. 14, Sloan can coach the team during practices and the walk-through on game day, but he can't be in the arena two hours prior to tipoff.
Sloan wasn't sure how much of a role he was going to play with the team during the suspension. He said he was completely comfortable leaving the Jazz to longtime assistant Phil Johnson, who was the 1975 NBA Coach of the Year when he ran the Kansas City-Omaha Kings.
The Jazz routed the Portland Trail Blazers 95-71 under Johnson on Wednesday and won at Sacramento the night before when he took over after Sloan got thrown out in the first quarter.
"There's not any doubts about them being able to coach the team. We're all on the same page as to what we're trying to do,'' Sloan said of Johnson and the rest of his staff. "I don't have a problem with anything at all. Whether I'm there or not, they'll be coached very well.''
The league can be sure that forcing Sloan to miss games is punishment. Watching basketball instead of playing or coaching is painful for the 60-year-old coach, who is in his 15th season as Utah's coach.
"Whenever you're at home having to watch it, it's a little bit different,'' Sloan said.
Sloan planned to spend the All-Star break at his farm in southern Illinois. That trip probably just got a little longer.
As for the time off mellowing the fiery Sloan, he said that's not going to happen.
"If it does, I'll get out of it. If it changes me, then I'll no longer coach,'' he said.
Nice posts and analysis Kiki. Especially on Stu "Clueless idiot" Jackson. What I would like to see as a member of the public though is some disipline for the ref. The refs appear to have zero accountability. What messgage is the NBA trying to send. Why are they putting more secrecy behind disciplining NBA refs that the DOD is for our detailed war plans for Iraq? Why the big secret? I can only think that the secret is the only discipline that refs receive is a slap on the wrist if that. I guess if I was part of David Stern's little fiefdom, I wouldn't want that to get out either. And I'm willing to bet David is scared to death of disciplining the refs because they have many little dirty secrets that they can tell on him. Like David asking them specifically to give preferential treatment to certain players to build the superstar model he has run the NBA on.
Someday, and hopefully soon this whole mess will blow up in one big scandal. And it will make Enron look like a Boyscout Jamboree.
01-30-2003, 06:44 PM
This may belong in a separate thread, but I think Stu(pid) Jackson's record as NBA Executive Vice President for Operations can use some scrutinizing. Here's another interesting quote from him regarding official Eddie F. Rush's off-court <ahem> 'fraternization' (i.e. 'pimping')for MJ.
Link to full text: Jackson covers up Rush's pimping for Jordan (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656297071.html)
"....In asserting that she was pursued by Jordan - and was not a groupie - Knafel described their introduction in 1989. After performing as a singer in Indianapolis, Knafel was approached by Eddie F. Rush, an NBA referee.
"Mr Rush told Karla that he personally knew Jordan," according to Knafel's court filing. "To prove it, he telephoned Jordan at Jordan's Indianapolis hotel room and introduced him to Karla over the phone."
If true, Rush must have been cozy enough with Jordan to know the alias he was using at the hotel, not to mention the man's taste in the ladies. If true, the NBA would have a serious breach of integrity.
"I spoke to Eddie Rush regarding the incident, and he gave me an account of what he remembers from a very long time ago, and I feel comfortable with his explanation," said Stu Jackson, NBA vice-president, who did not provide details of the discussion. "Do I feel there is a problem? Absolutely not."
There is no written rule on fraternisation, Jackson said, but there is an implied code of conduct. And a referee's attempt at playing cupid to please Jordan, Jackson said, would not be acceptable."
Kiki its a good thing Ed "the pimp" Rush wasn't a rookie official or he'd never get that noncall. Or maybe it wasn't called because he was inside the restricted circle of Jordan cronies.i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif
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