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View Full Version : Kevin Willis....freaking moron


Drbio
04-19-2003, 06:22 PM
Willis committed an very intentional and very hard elbow foul to the neck of the Suns Williams. It was a cowardly cheap shot. He was ejected immediately (as he should have been) and if the league has any moral fiber they will suspend this jackass for the rest of the playoffs.

What a total lack of class.

David
04-19-2003, 10:35 PM
I thought it was pretty stupid, since it was so obviously intentional and right in front of everyone. It made me think it was some kind of pay back from some other play. If you're going to take a shot like that, do it in the middle of a mass of humanity, not center stage, like that. If it was unprovoked, it was a cheap, dirty thing to do.

TVI
04-19-2003, 10:39 PM
<< Willis committed an very intentional and very hard elbow foul to the neck of the Suns Williams. It was a cowardly cheap shot. He was ejected immediately (as he should have been) and if the league has any moral fiber they will suspend this jackass for the rest of the playoffs.

What a total lack of class. >>

Were you this hot when Juwan broke DA's shoulder? Did you demand his suspension for the rest of the playoffs? Be honest...

Drbio
04-19-2003, 10:48 PM
I remember saying that it was a cheap shot to be honest. Can't remember saying anything about a suspension, but cheap shots are cheap shots...and that was Ron Artest cheap. He should be suspended.

MFFL
04-19-2003, 10:50 PM
Actually DA deserved the hard foul. He was going up for a showboat slam and Juwan tried to break up the play. It sucks that he got injured but I would have been angry if he hadn't been fouled.

LRB
04-19-2003, 10:58 PM
Juwan also went for the ball and got the ball as well as some of DA. Unfortunately DA happened to land very badly. More to do with how fast and high he was going than any flagrant attempt by Juwan.

MavsFanFinley
04-19-2003, 11:02 PM
<< Juwan also went for the ball and got the ball as well as some of DA. >>



He actually blocked the shot, but the way his hand rolled off the ball ended up in him hooking arms with DA. And boy did he go down. Awful land, but Juwan didn't go over thinking I'm going to floor the guy.

Still haven't seen this Willis foul. Everytime I flip over to one of the shows, Spurs have already been shown. Hopefully NBA2Nite will be on soon.

Drbio
04-19-2003, 11:16 PM
I don't mind hard fouls...even if someone is unfortunately dinged up, but I remember thinking that Howard might have slammed him a little hard. Still, if someone is showboating...they get what they ask for.

Drbio
04-19-2003, 11:18 PM
<<

<< Juwan also went for the ball and got the ball as well as some of DA. >>



He actually blocked the shot, but the way his hand rolled off the ball ended up in him hooking arms with DA. And boy did he go down. Awful land, but Juwan didn't go over thinking I'm going to floor the guy.

Still haven't seen this Willis foul. Everytime I flip over to one of the shows, Spurs have already been shown. Hopefully NBA2Nite will be on soon. >>



When you see it, you will understand. it's one of the most flagrant fouls that I have ever seen. It was so freaking obvious even the spurs fans knew it. Some booed, but It hink part of the boos were directed at the idiotic play itself.

TVI
04-20-2003, 09:22 PM
<< Actually DA deserved the hard foul. He was going up for a showboat slam and Juwan tried to break up the play. It sucks that he got injured but I would have been angry if he hadn't been fouled. >>

I keep thinking I'm going to get objectivity over here, and I keep getting disappointed.

I think that's a hell of a double standard. Howard hit DA up extremely high, and he brought his arms down after he was entangled with him. He flipped him backward for Christ's sake! DA had no chance to break his fall.

An I'm not sure what you call showboating, but every athletic player in the game goes up for high dunks. I've seen Kobe, Jordan, T-Mac, Finley, Sprewell, and several other players go up for the same kind of dunk. It's what a player is supposed to do on a fast break. Go straight to the basket, and go hard. If Finley were going in like that (like I've seen him do) I would not expect anyone to hit him up high and flip him backward. Sure, grab him, hug him, wrap him up, whatever. Do what you need to do to prevent the easy basket, but that play was one of the most irresponsible plays I've ever seen. It was inexcusable!

I'm not defending Willis. I don't think what he did should be condoned. I'm just seeing a double standard, and I don't agree with it. Based on what I'm reading, it seems like if someone from another team commits a stupid foul, then heads need to roll. When it's the Mavs, it okay...that player deserved it. God, I wouldn't even wish that on Shaq, and I despise him!

Murphy3
04-20-2003, 09:31 PM
juwan went for the ball.. his total lack of athleticism kept him from making more of a play on the ball.
unfortunately, his total lack of athleticism also helped to lead to an injury.

LRB
04-20-2003, 09:38 PM
<<

<< Actually DA deserved the hard foul. He was going up for a showboat slam and Juwan tried to break up the play. It sucks that he got injured but I would have been angry if he hadn't been fouled. >>

I keep thinking I'm going to get objectivity over here, and I keep getting disappointed.

I think that's a hell of a double standard. Howard hit DA up extremely high, and he brought his arms down after he was entangled with him. He flipped him backward for Christ's sake! DA had no chance to break his fall.

An I'm not sure what you call showboating, but every athletic player in the game goes up for high dunks. I've seen Kobe, Jordan, T-Mac, Finley, Sprewell, and several other players go up for the same kind of dunk. It's what a player is supposed to do on a fast break. Go straight to the basket, and go hard. If Finley were going in like that (like I've seen him do) I would not expect anyone to hit him up high and flip him backward. Sure, grab him, hug him, wrap him up, whatever. Do what you need to do to prevent the easy basket, but that play was one of the most irresponsible plays I've ever seen. It was inexcusable!

I'm not defending Willis. I don't think what he did should be condoned. I'm just seeing a double standard, and I don't agree with it. Based on what I'm reading, it seems like if someone from another team commits a stupid foul, then heads need to roll. When it's the Mavs, it okay...that player deserved it. God, I wouldn't even wish that on Shaq, and I despise him! >>



TVI with all due respect, you hardly see totally objective in this. Juwan did get the ball and followed through after making contact with the ball. Unfortunately this did cause DA to fall very awkardly. DA mistake was thinking that he'd get a free shot to do a highlight reel dunk and didn't take proper steps to protect himself. It's a shame he got hurt, but it hardly appears that Juwan intended anything more than going for the ball, which he did get. It's probably hard for either Spurs or Mavs fans to be 100% objective about this.

Rhylan
04-20-2003, 09:59 PM
<< juwan went for the ball.. his total lack of athleticism kept him from making more of a play on the ball.
unfortunately, his total lack of athleticism also helped to lead to an injury. >>



I tried explaning this to some of my Spurs fan friends yesterday - it's just no use. Their guy got hurt, and they're still pissed about it because they think DA would have made the difference in the playoffs that year. Of course... DA ain't done shizzle the last two years in the playoffs with Portland.

MavsFanFinley
04-20-2003, 10:11 PM
I finally saw the Willis foul last night during one of the sports shows. What a stupid thing to do.

However, he only received a 1 game suspension for it:

Spurs C Willis suspended one game for flagrant foul

April 20, 2003

NEW YORK (Ticker) - The San Antonio Spurs lost home-court advantage and their backup center in Game One of their Western Conference first-round series.

Spurs center Kevin Willis was suspended one game without pay by the NBA on Sunday, one day after he committed a flagrant-2 foul by elbowing Phoenix Suns center Scott Williams.

The incident occurred with 29.3 seconds left in the second quarter of the Suns' 96-95 overtime triumph. Willis elbowed Williams to the throat and was ejected.

Willis will sit out Game Two on Monday in San Antonio.



It'll be interesting to see how the Spurs adjust as news comes that David Robinson may not be able to play in game 2.

SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- David Robinson had a big game in the playoff opener against Phoenix. He might not have the chance to follow up on his performance in Game 2.

Robinson twisted his left knee when he drew an offensive foul on Stephon Marbury late in the Spurs' 96-95 overtime loss Saturday. He is listed as questionable for Monday night's game in the best-of-seven series.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich wouldn't talk about Robinson's status Sunday. He said his team's confidence is the most important factor.

``We've got to have the emotion and the same aggressiveness and the same defense -- it's all got to be there,'' he said. ``If that's not there, we'll have a problem.''

The 7-foot-1 center benefited from the constant double- and triple-teaming on Tim Duncan and went 8-for-8 for 18 points Saturday.

MFFL
04-20-2003, 10:14 PM
I know that Juwan wasn't trying to hurt anyone, DA knows that. Juwan even tried to go to DA and apologize but he was rebuffed by Spurs management.

DA tried to showboat with 2 seconds left in the half and Juwan tried to block the shot. They got entangled and DA got hurt. It happens. Obviously the NBA agreed with our position because Juwan was not suspended. Juwan and Derek are also friends - he wouldn't try to hurt him.

A view of the incident (http://espn.go.com/magazine/bucher_20010507.html)



<< I'm guessing Anderson attacked the basket with a sidewinding tomahawk jam -- leaving himself completely vulnerable -- because he knew upon taking off that there was nobody who could get between him and the basket. I'm all for not giving up layups and dunks, especially in the playoffs. I understand that Anderson's dunk would've capped a monumental first-half-closing run and possibly buried the Mavs emotionally. >>

Drbio
04-21-2003, 12:06 AM
The NBA showed they have no balls. Willis should have been banned for the series. That was as flagrant as they get.

MavKikiNYC
04-21-2003, 05:16 AM
Don't think there's provision for such a suspension in the CBA, and NBAPA would never have allowed that kind of ad-hoc disciplinary action.

jayC
04-21-2003, 03:13 PM
What ever Duncan was only 3-8 from the line in that game? If he nails his shots you aren't saying &quot;what you talkin about willis?&quot; It was cheap nonetheless.

Drbio
04-21-2003, 07:19 PM
There is no way to spin Willis' cheap shot. It was tremendously flagrant.

TVI
04-21-2003, 10:23 PM
<< TVI with all due respect, you hardly see totally objective in this. Juwan did get the ball and followed through after making contact with the ball. Unfortunately this did cause DA to fall very awkardly. DA mistake was thinking that he'd get a free shot to do a highlight reel dunk and didn't take proper steps to protect himself. It's a shame he got hurt, but it hardly appears that Juwan intended anything more than going for the ball, which he did get. It's probably hard for either Spurs or Mavs fans to be 100% objective about this. >>

You're right. I will certainly conceed that point. It would be extremely difficult for me to be completely unbiased, since it was one of our guys who got injured. Plus, I saw the whole ugly thing live, right in front of me. It was awful. I was completely disheartened.

I'll say right now, for the record, that I don't think Howard was intentionally trying to hurt DA. What I do think was that he showed horrible decision making, and that it was completely irresponsible. That's what I was so angry at (at the time). I thought it was stupid, and utterly careless to hit a player up on his extended arm(s), when he's so high off the ground. There were probably half a dozen other things he could have chosen to do (wrap his arms up, grab his jersey, grab his waist, etc.). Look at the replay sometime. There is no way he was ever going to be able to make a clean play on the ball. He was totally out of position. He was still moving laterally when he made contact.

I listened to him afterward, and he apologized for hurting DA, but never took responsibility for it. It would have been nice if he would have said &quot;I wish I would have just wrapped him up...&quot; It never seemed like he really regretted it.

Whats more shocking to me now is that two years later, with 20/20 hindsight, some folks are saying that DA &quot;got what he deserved&quot; and that astonishes me! DA is a generally considered a pretty classy player throughout the league (his negotiating tactics aside). He's never been known as a showboat and he doesn't celebrate after making spectactular plays. I'm just really surprised that some people would express an attitude that a player deserved to get injured.

I'm sure all of you cheer like crazy when one of your guys makes a spectacular dunk, especially in an intense playoff game. DA was doing his job----trying to ignite the crowd. I wouldn't expect anything different from any (capable) player on any other team. I know that if Fin had a breakaway, and he wanted to spark his team, he'd give it his all, and you guys would love it. I don't believe any of you would say &quot;oh, he's showboating, he shouldn't do that...&quot;

David
04-22-2003, 05:58 AM
Any time a player goes up for a slam, he leaves his feet and is vulnerable. Anderson was going for the highlight reel slam. Juwan KNEW he was going for the highlight reel slam. Juwan went up to stop him and got the ball but also Anderson's body. It was a bang-bang play, up off the ground. It was unfortunate that Anderson got hurt but that is one of the hazards when you leave the ground. Derek was doing what he felt he needed to do at the time and so was Juwan. I don't think you can really blame either player, although the results made Juwan look bad. I think Juwan only intended to stop the dunk, not hurt the opposing player.

Usually Lurkin
04-22-2003, 06:51 AM
hurting someone on accident is not as bad as hurting someone on purpose.

Big Boy Laroux
04-22-2003, 07:45 AM
he apologized personally to DA... and that's not taking responsibility?

Drbio
04-22-2003, 10:37 AM
<< he apologized personally to DA... and that's not taking responsibility? >>



exactly. not to mention that DA forgave him.

Murphy3
04-22-2003, 11:39 AM
that doesn't mean that he meant his apology

Drbio
04-22-2003, 01:02 PM
<< that doesn't mean that he meant his apology >>



apparently DA thought he did having accepted it.

LRB
04-22-2003, 01:17 PM
<< I'm sure all of you cheer like crazy when one of your guys makes a spectacular dunk, especially in an intense playoff game. DA was doing his job----trying to ignite the crowd. I wouldn't expect anything different from any (capable) player on any other team. I know that if Fin had a breakaway, and he wanted to spark his team, he'd give it his all, and you guys would love it. I don't believe any of you would say &quot;oh, he's showboating, he shouldn't do that...&quot; >>



TVI there is a very old rule in the NBA, older than any of the players currently competing. This rule applies especially to the playoffs. It states &quot;No layups&quot;. As a player you have to be aware of this rule and expect contact when every you go up for a layup or dunk and there is an opposing player close enough to reach you before you reach the basket. DA fault was in disrespecting this rule. He certainly didn't deserve to get hurt, but he has to take responsibility for protecting himself. His health was certainly worth more that a highlight reel dunk with a blow out in progress. DA's job was to protect himself, Juwan's was to protect the basket. Yes Juwan could have just wrapped him up. But according to the rules he's supposed to make a play on the ball. Maybe the rules should be changed to protect the players. But Juwan made a legitimate play on the ball. Unfortunately DA got hurt as a result.

I remember in a picup game goiing for a layup and extending myself. I got hit hard in the rib cage and badly bruised my ribs. After that I learned to protect myself because I knew the other team wasn't going to just sit back and give me the layup even if they couldn't block the ball cleanly. That was the lesson that DA ignored. It's just a shame that he got hurt.

Murphy3
04-22-2003, 01:57 PM
doc, only joking.


i could care less either way..it's not like i like either player the least bit

Big Boy Laroux
04-22-2003, 03:22 PM
<<
TVI there is a very old rule in the NBA, older than any of the players currently competing. This rule applies especially to the playoffs. It states &quot;No layups&quot;. >>



apparently, we forgot this rule last year... i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

TVI
04-22-2003, 09:58 PM
<<

<< he apologized personally to DA... and that's not taking responsibility? >>

exactly. not to mention that DA forgave him. >>

From: Espn (http://espn.go.com/magazine/bucher_20010507.html)
What made the entire incident particularly distasteful was...Howard's assertion the next day that he'd make the same play again.In a word, no. It's not taking responsibility when you say you'd do the same thing all over again.

&quot;I'm really, sorry that I (insert offense here), but I'd do it again...&quot;

And what hell was DA supposed to do? Tell him to take his apology and shove it up his *ss? He's not that kind of person. Classy players take the high road.

Robinson accepted Malone's apology after Karl K.O.'ed him with an elbow. Same sort of thing. Malone, and all the Jazz fans claimed it wasn't &quot;intentional.&quot; I maintain that if you do something stupid and irresponsible (like swinging your elbows or hitting a player high in the air), someone is bound to suffer from your actions. What Howard did was stupid and irresponsible. Yet, he began posturing, claiming that he'd do it again! And everyone here's defending him...&quot;DA was showboating...he got what he deserved...Howard was making a play on the ball.&quot;

I realize I'm pissing into the wind here. I'm trying to convince people who couldn't give a sh*t about the incident because it didn't happen in the reverse. Obviously, that's not gonna happen.

I see this as total hypocrisy. God forbid one of your guys gets hurt. I can only imagine the screams of outrage if someone ends Dirk's season with a bonehead play.

Member
04-22-2003, 10:04 PM
DA isnt nearly as valuable as Dirk

it would be equivalent to someone ending Raja Bell's season

THEN you would hear screams of outrage

LRB
04-22-2003, 10:17 PM
<<

<<
TVI there is a very old rule in the NBA, older than any of the players currently competing. This rule applies especially to the playoffs. It states &quot;No layups&quot;. >>



apparently, we forgot this rule last year... i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif >>



Yes we did. i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Epitome22
04-22-2003, 11:58 PM
<< DA isnt nearly as valuable as Dirk

it would be equivalent to someone ending Raja Bell's season

THEN you would hear screams of outrage >>



To be fair, DA played a much more valuable part on that Spurs team then Raja has played on any team so far in his young career.

TVI
04-23-2003, 12:22 AM
<< DA isnt nearly as valuable as Dirk

it would be equivalent to someone ending Raja Bell's season

THEN you would hear screams of outrage >>

Oh my God, I hope you're being sarcastic. There's no way you could have miss the point so completely, could you? Surely, you're not suggesting that the act should be measured by the value of the player it's committed against, are you?

Big Boy Laroux
04-23-2003, 07:47 AM
i hope to god juwan would do it again. he tried to make a play to help his team. he's just so unathletic, and DA is so athletic, that the play ended badly. and i rememeber the aftermath. juwan was certainly not &quot;posturing&quot; and telling anyone who would listen that he'd do it again. when asked about it, he felt he made a fair play at the ball, which he did. if DA had not landed so hard (cause he was so high in the air), we wouldn't even be talking about this today

ok, so malone apologized. and you know what, he's done that same type of thing to other players, INCLUDING dirk.

Member
04-23-2003, 09:05 PM
<< Oh my God, I hope you're being sarcastic >>



yes i was, jeez