View Full Version : WayOutWest......
04-25-2003, 08:59 AM
Were the Lakers favored by the refs in game 3? Szczerbiak's foul on Pargo, Szczerbiak's foul on Kobe's three, Garnett's foul on Horry etc. This thread is not meant to flame Lakers' fans. I just want to know the honest opinion from a Lakers' fan.
Please answer only if you watched the game, which I'm pretty sure you did.
04-25-2003, 09:57 AM
That was the WORST officiating IN MY YEARS of watching basketball... That was absolute ridiculous...
Also, NOW is the reason why the seven game series that was decided at the ALL STAR break was made for the benefit of the Lakers. They thought the Lakers would be the 8th seed and they ended up NOT being the 8th Seed but if this was a five game series the Wolves would have THREE GAMES to win 1 and they would probably win the series, however NOW they have four games to win two, it's not going to happen.
04-25-2003, 10:18 AM
Amen, preach on.
04-25-2003, 11:04 AM
I think both teams got bad calls or bad non-calls but the Lakers did get more and what's worse the Lakers got some pretty blatent bad calls in their favor. I think that is what's pissing people off the most and why they only see one side of the argument. Kobe had two non-calls go against him, plays that should have gotten him FT's BUT the 4 point play call and the Wally foul on Pargo were just inexcusable and causes people to block out the Kobe non-calls. So while I agree the Lakers got more critical calls than the Wolves, they didn't get all of them as some people want to believe.
You can pretty much summarize it as the Wolves getting some bad calls in their favor while the Lakers got some GIFTS from the refs.
To their credit the Wolves handled the bad calls alot better than the Lakers, they just played through it and the Lakers complained and lost focus. The Wolves deserved the win and it would have been a shame if the Lakers pulled out the game with big help from the refs.
04-25-2003, 11:08 AM
There were some questionable non-calls against the Lakers but you have to agree that the refs were visibly trying to help LA towards the end of the game.
The Wally foul on Pargo was the most comical one of the night.
The refs need LASIK.
04-25-2003, 11:25 AM
<< There were some questionable non-calls against the Lakers but you have to agree that the refs were visibly trying to help LA towards the end of the game.
The Wally foul on Pargo was the most comical one of the night.
The refs need LASIK. >>
When people say things like the "refs were visibly trying to help LA" then I lose interest. If they were trying to help they would have sent Kobe to the line when he got fouled by Garnett and when he got fouled by Jackson, why help them on one play and then hurt them on another. They don't, it's just bad officiating, plain and simple. The refs made bad calls against the Lakers and made horried calls against the Wolves. That I can deal with, the "conspiracy" comments just sounds like noise.
04-25-2003, 11:45 AM
So are you saying that the officiating wasn't biased in that game?
sturm und drang
04-25-2003, 12:01 PM
<< So are you saying that the officiating wasn't biased in that game? >>
I don't think WOW was saying the officiating wasn't biased in last night's game-- it was, and it was blatant. I think what he's saying is that he finds it difficult to believe that it's some conscious conspiracy passed down from the NBA brass to referees.
WOW, I think it's difficult for non-Laker fans to accept this because the motive for LA winning is so obvious to everyone. In this day and age, TV ratings are the end-all-be-all, and we all know the continued growth of the NBA is linked inextricably to-- more than any other single issue-- TV ratings. TV ratings = media coverage = buzz = even better TV ratings = increased revenue. It's a simple formula, and one that we all understand implicitly. And who would Mr. Stern rather see move on to round 2: teeny weeny-market Minnesota or megapolis Los Angeles? Pure demographics aside, you also have the star power issue at hand. KG may be a super-famous super-stud to all of us here, but outside the realm of emphatic basketball fans, he's a total unknown. Shaq and Kobe-- with their Nestle deals, BK commercials, Sprite, movies, rap albums and general bigger-than-life personas-- are a marketing and publicity frenzy personified.
We all know WHY the NBA would want the Lakers to move on-- after all, it would totally contradict the very foundations of capitalism for them to wish otherwise. We can't pretend they want superstar-less, marketing-dollar-less, small-market Minnesota to beat the media/publicity juggernaut that is the Lakers.
So when we see officiating as blatantly and unapologetically one-sided as last night's was, we just have to question the motives behind it. It's hard not to see a conspiracy, really, especially when considering that they get referee love more often than any other team. You know, even the 4Q of the Lakers/Blazers game two weeks ago was bad; the Lakers were getting every single call. I noticed it and was somewhat disgusted by it, even though I was pulling for the Lakers so we could avoid them in the first round.
And let's not even bring up Game 6 of last year's WCF. Woof, woof. That was some baaaad, biased officiating as well. If the Minny game were an aberration, it would be one thing. But when viewed in context of both the apparent motive and the history of benefitting from one-sided officiating, it's hard to ignore.
04-25-2003, 12:27 PM
I also wonder why Robert Horry didn't get suspended for shoving that camera guy. He got a $20,000 fine, which seems pretty high to come without a suspension. But having him out a game would have seriously hurt the Lakers chances in game 3.
Edit: Ron Artest did get $20,000 for flipping off the crowd and was not suspended. However, he got three games for destroying a camera.
04-25-2003, 12:39 PM
The major factor in the rational behind the conpsiracy theory is the major factor why I don't buy into it. Why risk a financial disaster by "fixing" the games. In this day and age it's very difficult to keep a lid on something as elaborate as this conspiracy, the fallout from it leaking out would desemate the league. IMO not worth the risk. I've seen many blatent calls go against the Lakers over the years but I also know that they've gotten more in their favor than against. When the Lakers were made up of Van Excel, Jones, Ceballos, Cambell and Divac they didn't get these types of calls, now that Kobe and Shaq run the show they get more than their fair share. It's as simple as star treatment and home cooking.
04-25-2003, 12:44 PM
I definitely don't think there is a conspiracy. The NBA is not that stupid and would never risk a "Quiz Show" type scandal. However, I think there is an unspoken understanding in the NBA of value of the Kobe, Shaq and Lakers winning the championship. Ditto Michael Jordan and the old Bulls. These players and teams are responsible for a great part of the NBA's total income. The refs treat them accordingly. It is 'star treatment' as you say. It's not a conspiracy but it's not right either.
sturm und drang
04-25-2003, 12:58 PM
Agree with aristo. I don't think there's any kind of grand scheme to propel the Lakers through the playoffs, but I do think there's two factors at work here:
1. Lakers are world champions and Shaq and Kobe are super-stars. Therefore, they will get the benefit of the doubt on many calls, just as all super-stars do.
2. Referees, unfortunately, are human and know where their bread is buttered, so to speak. I don't think there's any kind of collusion between Stern and the refs or anything, but at the back of their minds, refs know what's good for the league. I don't think this is a conscious decision, just one of the many factors that could unintentionally shape the way a game is called.
With all the uproar that's going on right now-- I heard that ESPN is devoting its 5:00 CDT SportsCenter to a discussion of last night's officiating debacle-- it will be interesting to see if the refs try to give the 'Wolves a make-good game next... I hope not. Two wrongs still don't make a right.
04-25-2003, 01:25 PM
I agree with your statements but I totally disagree with your singling out of the Lakers and their players. It's an old and tired arguement to single out the Lakers in any one given subject.
Case in point, something I've NEVER EVER seen gifted to the Lakers. Don't know if it was this year or last but Garry Payton got T'd up for yelling at the ref early in the first quarter. Towards the end of the first quarter Payton and some other guard got into it and both got T'd up for the confrontation. Gary runs over to the ref and says something and the refs recinds the T on Payton but the other guy still get's the T. I think Gary told him that would be his second T and he would be ejected. It was the most ridiculous call I've ever seen in my 18 years of watching basketball.
Sam Cassel got the same treatment yeasterday, he was allowed to cross the line and not get T late in the game cause he had an earlier T.
Big Boy Laroux
04-25-2003, 01:56 PM
i remember that, WoW... that payton thing was absolutely ridiculous.
04-25-2003, 02:33 PM
I watched the 4th quarter and overtime. That was a one-sided called game, but that had nothing on Game 6 of last yr's WCF. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of conspiracy if i was you WOW.
04-25-2003, 03:19 PM
<< I watched the 4th quarter and overtime. That was a one-sided called game, but that had nothing on Game 6 of last yr's WCF. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of conspiracy if i was you WOW. >>
Then I don't know what game you were watching. I can't stand discussions with people that only see one side of the coin. The Wolves got horrid calls against them but it was not one-sided. Did you not see the two non-calls on Kobe driving to the basket? Garnett bumped him and hit his elbow and no call. Jackson same thing. Hudson traveling at mid-court not on your tape? Peeler falling down and no-travel blocked out by a tape glitch? Out of bounds call reversed when the replay shows Nesterovich (sic?) touched it last taped over with a Barney episode? You must have also missed the first half where the Lakers got only 9 fould and 1 FT I believe.
Despite those calls I'm not blinded to the two terrible calls against Wally, the flop that cost Garnett his 6th foul or the phantom call against Nesterovich on Kobe that got him his 6th foul.
I'm not a die-hard X-Files fan nor am I 15 years old so I can't buy the conspiracy garbage. The level of cooperation and economics don't make sense to anyone with a HS education.
04-25-2003, 03:41 PM
Being suspicious of conspiracy theory doesn't mean that that person is 15 years-old. Why resort to personal attacks man?
I don't believe that there's a conspiracy within the league where Stern got his men together and mastermined a plan to favor the Lakers. But all the bad end-of-game calls on top of the sudden change of a 5 games to 7 games first round format raised questions that's all.
04-25-2003, 03:46 PM
<< Being suspicious of conspiracy theory doesn't mean that that person is 15 years-old. Why resort to personal attacks man?
I don't believe that there's a conspiracy within the league where Stern got his men together and mastermined a plan to favor the Lakers. But all the bad end-of-game calls on top of the sudden change of a 5 games to 7 games first round format raised questions that's all. >>
I know, not cool to get p!ssy but you get tired of the same old garbage, especially when it's not thought out.
There was no sudden change to a 7 game format, it was in the works last year and the players union was holding it up. It's all about more revenue, has nothing to do with the Laker conspiracy. Really, if you just think it through a couple of steps the point becomes silly.
04-25-2003, 04:11 PM
i don't believe there is a grand scheme behind all these, but i do believe there should be a conscious effort by nba to make the refs do a better job. like cuban or not, he does hit a bull's eye about the officiating issue, imo.
i am not sure if the statisticians hired by cuban have ever investigate the percentage of refs' bad calls that favor lakers against those favoring other teams. my guess is that the percentage for lakers is higher. i believe such perception is the reason why so many fans are outraged by lakers.
i don't hate lakers, but i am highly pleased to learn that they lost to wolves last nite.
04-25-2003, 05:02 PM
WOW, i'm 18, you were close. If you want to go to Kobe calls, how about the refs not calling technicals on him basically after every other play where he whined to the refs. I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it does make you think.
04-25-2003, 05:09 PM
<< WOW, i'm 18, you were close. If you want to go to Kobe calls, how about the refs not calling technicals on him basically after every other play where he whined to the refs. I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it does make you think. >>
When you say things like "after ever other play" you don't come off as someone who really wants to discuss the topic, you just want to spew your bias. Not interesting at all.
All it makes me think about is "star treatment". It's been around as long as you've been around. When you don't have a "star" on your team it looks much worse. Dirk will start getting the star treatment soon enough. Lakers didn't get much love from the refs when a 5th round draft choice was our goto guy in crunchtime. Nor did the young exciting, Mavs-like, Laker squad get many breaks before the arrival of Shaq. Nothing Kobe, or any other star, get's away with surprises me after going through the "Jordan Rules" era.
04-25-2003, 05:15 PM
I'm not going to get in this argument with you. When you throw in bad calls with constant whining, it makes you think. How come Garnett didn't get the "special treatment?" Don't say because he was on the road, b/c lots of stars get "special treatment" on the road.
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