PDA

View Full Version : Pistons vs Nets


MavsFanFinley
05-18-2003, 02:51 PM
Geez, at the end of the 3rd quarter, I think Detroit was up by 8 points or so. With 2:53 left in the game, the Nets have a 7 point lead.

I want the Pistons in the Finals. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

sa_mavs_fan
05-18-2003, 03:03 PM
Wow!!! Jason Kidd just hit a jumper to take the lead with 1.2 seconds left!

MavsFanFinley
05-18-2003, 03:04 PM
That was an amazing shot by Kidd. He was doubled and had Okur(sp) in his face.

1.4 seconds for the Pistons to tie or win.

MavsFanFinley
05-18-2003, 03:06 PM
Oh man...what a finish.

Okur had like 2 chances to get that layup.

Nets steal game 1.

sa_mavs_fan
05-18-2003, 03:07 PM
Nets win, 76-74!!!

Chicago JK
05-18-2003, 04:21 PM
didn't the Mavs score that in a half?? I get a chuckle hearing big Ego Mike Lupica saying that the Nets or Pistons will not let SA or Dallas run if they get in the finals. Mike is big on saying the Nets are playing better than anyone.

The Nets are good, but Mike once again is showing his East Coast Bias.

MavKikiNYC
05-18-2003, 04:55 PM
I think the Nets can be interesting against either Dallas or San Antonio, CJK.

They are very, very athletic; play hard, tenacious defense; have plenty of vertical game, both offensively and defensively, and are, as a team, taking on the personality of Kidd.

They looked awful today for most of that game against Detroit, and fell behind by 8 points. But they were able to choke the Pistons off defensively, and take the lead again off of fastbreak opporunities created by their defense.

Dallas handled the Nets pretty easily earlier in the season, but I think NJ has improved since then, and think the dynamic would be different in the context of a series as opposed to one game on a road swing.

Hoopsmeister
05-18-2003, 07:50 PM
<< I think the Nets can be interesting against either Dallas or San Antonio, CJK. >>



Oh please. At the start of the season we got story after story about how the East had narrowed the gap. Then the season really kicked in and the West, 1-10, blew away the East. New Jersey and Detroit would have had trouble scraping in as an 8th seed if they played most of their games against the West. But for 2 series now, NJ has been playing nothing but other East teams and looking great by comparison. Nothing has actually changed between the West and the JV. Just people with short memories.

No team that cannot score more than 80 points has a chance against any West playoff team.

LRB
05-18-2003, 10:00 PM
<< I think the Nets can be interesting against either Dallas or San Antonio, CJK. >>




I agree they might even win a game this time if they're lucky. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Drbio
05-18-2003, 11:01 PM
Gotta go with Hoops on this one. The Mavs and Spurs are playing for the World Championship.

MavKikiNYC
05-18-2003, 11:55 PM
<< Oh please. >>



Okay. Skepticism noted.



<< At the start of the season we got story after story about how the East had narrowed the gap. >>



We must've been reading different accounts.



<< New Jersey and Detroit would have had trouble scraping in as an 8th seed if they played most of their games against the West. >>



Maybe. Maybe not. Literally. Nets were 5-5 against Top 5 teams; only Sac at 9-9, and SA at 13-9 broke .500 against the same teams. The Nets split against the Spurs, while dropping both games against the Mavericks, the first of which came in the Mavs 14-0 streak to start the season.

Notable is that none of the Nets' games against the Spurs or Mavericks featured a 100-point game by either team. The games were lower-scoring, with Nets' giving up between 82-96 points. So they can keep it close--just a question of whether they can score enough to come out on top.

But the thing that impresses me most about the Nets' chances are watching how their individual games have progressed. Kidd is absolutely dominant at both ends of the floor, and appears to have rejuvenated the career of Kerry Kittles, who looks a little like a young Michael Cooper out on the break.. K-Mart is playing some very impressive defense, and his offensive game has developed surprisingly; same for Jefferson. Jason Collins is making strides as a physical inside presence, and serviceable defensive center. They have depth in players like Aaron Williams, Rodney Rogers, and Lucious Harris, and Scott hasn't even begun to work the veteran Mutombo into the mix yet.
They are playing very well against inferior competition, but all in all, they show signs of being able to up their game.



<< No team that cannot score more than 80 points has a chance against any West playoff team. >>



That may be correct. Just a cursory glance at the Mavs' schedule reveals 5 games where the Mavs scored fewer than 85 points, and they went 2-3 in those games, 4 of which were against Western conference teams.

11.11.02 v. Portland 82-73 W
12.20.02 v. Utah 81-93 L
12.26.02 v. New Orleans 83-81 W
01.19.03 v. Seattle 81-85 L
03.10.03 v. Minnesota 83-92 L

So the Mavs themselves have trouble winning the closer they get to that 80-point number, a trend which continues in the playoffs, where they had only 79 points in a loss to Portland.

Bottom line, I think it might be too dismissive to say that the Nets can't/won't compete against either of the two remaining Western teams. In fact, like Dallas, their matchups with San Antonio give them a much higher possibility of success, rather than trying to match up with O'Neal. They may not win, but I think this year's championship series will be more interesting than last year's.

Dooby
05-19-2003, 08:01 AM
Anybody doubt that if the Webber-less Kings were in the East, they might still be playing?

Ummmmm Ok
05-19-2003, 08:56 AM
<< Anybody doubt that if the Webber-less Kings were in the East, they might still be playing? >>



Actually a webber less kings would have just played their 9th game last night as they would have swept the 1st two series... i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Hoopsmeister
05-19-2003, 01:10 PM
<<

<< At the start of the season we got story after story about how the East had narrowed the gap. >>



We must've been reading different accounts. >>



Check the ESPN archives, Stein alone had 2 or 3 columns the whole point of which was &quot;Least no more&quot; during the first month. Then he had to take it back.



<<

<< New Jersey and Detroit would have had trouble scraping in as an 8th seed if they played most of their games against the West. >>



Maybe. Maybe not. Literally. Nets were 5-5 against Top 5 teams; only Sac at 9-9, and SA at 13-9 broke .500 against the same teams. The Nets split against the Spurs, while dropping both games against the Mavericks, the first of which came in the Mavs 14-0 streak to start the season. >>



Nets were 34-20 vs. the East, 15-13 vs. the West. Reverse those percentages if they had played a Western schedule and they end up with a record of 47-35, tied with Utah for seventh. I'm not sure what relevance it is that one of their losses came to the Mavs during the opening streak since the Mavs swept them for the last two years in a row and they have been at essentially full strength for every one of those games. But if we are going to discuss the timing of losses, the Nets are 1-6 vs. Western playoff teams since New Years. The one victory was against the Lakers who were doing their whole inconsistant thing since they had just lost to the Warriors and would lose to New York a couple of weeks later. Their one victory against San Antonio was in the second week of the season when the Spurs were getting off to their typical slow start.



<<

<< No team that cannot score more than 80 points has a chance against any West playoff team. >>



That may be correct. Just a cursory glance at the Mavs' schedule reveals 5 games where the Mavs scored fewer than 85 points, and they went 2-3 in those games, 4 of which were against Western conference teams.

11.11.02 v. Portland 82-73 W
12.20.02 v. Utah 81-93 L
12.26.02 v. New Orleans 83-81 W
01.19.03 v. Seattle 81-85 L
03.10.03 v. Minnesota 83-92 L

So the Mavs themselves have trouble winning the closer they get to that 80-point number, a trend which continues in the playoffs, where they had only 79 points in a loss to Portland. >>



You're basically making my point for me. The Mavs had 79 points in a loss to Portland. And when they did, fans were ready to jump off buildings because that was the worst game the Mavs had had all year. Nets on the other hand had 8 games this year where they failed to score 80 points. So its
Mavs: 79 point game, worst game of the entire year
Nets: 78 point game, not so unusual



<< I think this year's championship series will be more interesting than last year's. >>



Funny thing is, I read the exact same thing last year during the playoffs--that the Nets would be more competitive against LA than Philly had been the year before. Yeah, I would agree that the Nets will be more competitive against the Mavs than they were against the Lakers last year. They might even take 1 game from San Antonio. And I'm discouraged enough about the Mavs mindset when it comes to closing out that I'd predict 2 games for them against the Mavs. But there is no way they win 3 against either team.

LRB
05-19-2003, 01:23 PM
Nice post Hoops. The best of the east is just an also ran in the West. East has a long way to go to dump the JV label and the Nets are no exception.

MavKikiNYC
05-19-2003, 03:25 PM
<< You're basically making my point for me. The Mavs had 79 points in a loss to Portland. And when they did, fans were ready to jump off buildings because that was the worst game the Mavs had had all year. Nets on the other hand had 8 games this year where they failed to score 80 points. So its
Mavs: 79 point game, worst game of the entire year
Nets: 78 point game, not so unusual >>




Indeed, I WAS agreeing with your point, but also going further to say that it applies to the Mavericks as well. What might not give as much comfort, however, is that NJ can WIN at the level of output, while the Mavericks struggle to.



<< Nets were 34-20 vs. the East, 15-13 vs. the West. Reverse those percentages if they had played a Western schedule and they end up with a record of 47-35, tied with Utah for seventh. >>



This projection is speculative to the extent of being of questionable relevance.



<< I'm not sure what relevance it is that one of their losses came to the Mavs during the opening streak ...Their [The Nets'} one victory against San Antonio was in the second week of the season when the Spurs were getting off to their typical slow start. >>



Both of these obsevations, however, are interesting in that they contextualize to some extent the Nets' regular-season performance against both of their possible championship series opponents--thanks for the extra note on Nets v. Spurs. The takeaway is that the Nets had both a win and a loss against opponents who were in a peak and a trough respectively. This, to me, suggests that they MAY be able to challenge either of these opponents, rather than their being categorically outclassed, as seems to be popular opinion here.



<< &quot;...since the Mavs swept them for the last two years in a row and they have been at essentially full strength for every one of those games.&quot;

But if we are going to discuss the timing of losses, the Nets are 1-6 vs. Western playoff teams since New Years. The one victory was against the Lakers who were doing their whole inconsistant thing since they had just lost to the Warriors and would lose to New York a couple of weeks later. >>



More good observations--although the difference in one-shot regular-season performance(s) has to be weighed against potential playoff series performance. The Nets definitely had an extended slump starting around the All-Star Break. They have rebounded since, however, and it will be interesting to see if Scott can use the Pistons series to prime the Nets for peak performance in the championship series. It could easily be pointed out that yesterday's stinker doesn't argue that the Nets are on the ascent; and yet, they pulled out a playoff win playing well below their normal level, on the road, against the team with the best record in the conference. The Nets' regular-season slips against inferior opponents are less troubling to me, however, than the Mavs repeated regular-season failures to win big games against major rivals at full strength.

Almost as much as a Mavs championship, I'd like to see a hard-fought, competitive championship series, between two teams who present matchup difficulties for each other--both opponents playing hard, extending each other, bringing out the best in each other. I find it interesting that fellow Mavs followers fret over the lack of respect shown the Mavericks by the national media, all the while downplaying the accomplishment that it would be if the Mavs advanced to the finals and defeated the Nets or Pistons. It seems like some Mavs fans themselves could be seen as prospectively devaluing a Mavs' championship, and thus diminishing the respect due a champion.

You, Hoops, definitely have more specific notions about the Nets' prospects for success than I do--I'll give you that. The question remains, however: brass or papier-m&acirc;ch&eacute;?

Hoopsmeister
05-19-2003, 06:00 PM
<< You, Hoops, definitely have more specific notions about the Nets' prospects for success than I do--I'll give you that. The question remains, however: brass or papier-m&acirc;ch&eacute;? >>



Uh, missing your reference. Or rather getting the immediate reference but not sure of who you are applying it to/or asking about in this thread?

TheNightfly
05-19-2003, 06:04 PM
Damn, the Nets are going to the finals already? I thought they had to beat Detroit three more times.

OzMavs
05-20-2003, 08:57 PM
Game 2.

67-58 at the end of the third.

Is it possible that this will be the most boring series ever played? Why don't they just start the Eastern conference games at the end of full time. Just play until one team is in front after 5 minutes.

MavsFanFinley
05-20-2003, 11:07 PM
Another game that came down to the wire. One basket difference and almost the exact same time left on the clock.

Billups just missed the 3-point attempt.

Pistons are done.

Murphy3
05-20-2003, 11:54 PM
the only question concerning the nets is this..

would they finish 6th or 7th if they were in the Western Conference?

DTL
05-21-2003, 12:13 AM
<< the only question concerning the nets is this.. >>


who cares about the nets?

MFFL
05-21-2003, 06:58 AM
<< the only question concerning the nets is this..

would they finish 6th or 7th if they were in the Western Conference? >>



OR out of the playoffs.

TripleDipping
05-21-2003, 08:32 AM
Defense wins championship....

My ass.

madape
05-21-2003, 09:39 AM
Let's officially retire that saying to cliche status.

LRB
05-21-2003, 01:24 PM
<< Defense wins championship....

My ass. >>



Defense wins the championship of your ass? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

MavKikiNYC
05-25-2003, 05:34 AM
<< Damn, the Nets are going to the finals already? I thought they had to beat Detroit three more times. >>



Okay, now that's done.

Nets' defense was superior to Pistons, and was, in fact, one of best in NBA.

If, heaven forfend, the Spurs (whose defense is regarded as superior to Mavs', as well as one of best in league), end up advancing to the NBA championship, two of the Top 5 defensive teams will be in the finals.

Defense doesn't win championships?

Epitome22
05-25-2003, 09:09 AM
It seems that it certainly helps.