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ariosto
06-10-2003, 02:38 PM
These aer quotes from a Chad Ford draft article from last year. I'm posting it just to remind people (people like myself) that some of these guys are a lot of hype.


Getting a glimpse at Europe's next big thing
Wednesday, May 22
Updated: Thursday, May 23, 2:36 PM ET

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com

"After a 30-minute workout, it's clear Tskitishvili has the speed, the hops, the outside shooting touch and the ball-handling skills to rival anyone in the draft. He hit 10 NBA threes in a row at one point. His crossover would be phenomenal even for a smaller player. There is no stiff in this European."

""The kid can play," D'Antoni told ESPN.com. "I think he'll be a devastating four (power forward) in the league in a few years. He just needs a bigger body and a bigger rear end to handle the constant grind in the paint. Right now, he'll be fine out on the perimeter though. He can already nail threes -- NBA threes. He's 7-feet tall, how is anyone going to stop him?

"Fundamentally, he's all the way there. He's light years ahead of the high school and college kids when it comes to understanding the game. He's very fluid for a big man. And he's just a great kid. He's very polite and respectful. He works very, very hard." "

""On potential alone, I like him better than Kwame Brown," said the NBA executive. "He's already more advanced fundamentally, and I think he has the athleticism to compete with the elite players in the NBA. It's always scary to make a leap like this on limited information, but he's further along than any of the high school kids that have been drafted and his upside is still huge. I think, in five years, he could be better than Nowitzki because of his athleticism. Seven-footers like this just don't come along very often. Someone will take the chance." "

""He's got the body and athleticism of Garnett, but he's got the perimeter game of Bryant," said one NBA general manager."

Skita might still become a decent player, but reading stuff like this reminds me to temper my expectations about a lot of prospects. I am very suspicious of Pavel the Russian giant; like Skita, he couldn't get playing time in Europe. Guys like Yao Ming, Ginobili, and Pau Gasol dominated their leagues.

madape
06-10-2003, 02:43 PM
Skita is going to be a hell of a player. I don't know what your point is here. Are you posting this article to point out how "wrong" these scouts were about Nikoli? Well, read again. Did you read that five year quote? Well, five years is a hell of a lot longer than one. The man is only 18 years old. He didn't even play against big time competition in Europe before he came over. What do you expect out of a guy like that? No one who follows the game thought he'd break into the regular rotation last year, much less be an all star. If you remember, Dirk didn't set the world on fire when he was 18 years old either. When teams pick 18 year olds, they know they are raw. They know it will take time for them to develop into a player. Skita is still learning the game. He's still a seven foot tall atheltic freak of nature. He's going to be a star.

Maybe I should bump this thread up in a couple of years without comment to make a point - a point that short sighted fools often wind up eating their own shit.

Chicago JK
06-10-2003, 02:56 PM
ha ha. good post. Skita has a lot of question marks to his game. He is still young so you have to give him plenty of time. Although, you can see he doesn't move like dirk. I think he will be fine, but I don't think he will live up to the hype he had before the draft.

ariosto
06-10-2003, 03:02 PM
Maybe I should bump this thread up in a couple of years without comment to make a point - a point that short sighted fools often wind up eating their own shit.

I am really sick of bullshit like this. You insult every poster that disagrees with you. Skita is a big time bust. Take a look at the numbers:

Dirk: 8.2 / 3.6 / 40% fg%
Skita: 3.9 / 2.2 / 29% fg%

I said Skita might be a decent player but these number are pathetic. Dirk was considered a bust but he improved. His 'bust' season was still a hell of a lot better than Skita's awful rookie year. This guy was supposed to be a smooth shooter and he connected on 29% of his shots.

You can bring this post back up in a couple of years when Skita is averaging 8 and 5 or something. No doubt you will say he's actually making a huge difference on the court that isn't reflected in his numbers, like you always do for Bradley or Austin Croshere or other pathetic players.

Lonely PSU Mavs Fan
06-10-2003, 03:25 PM
I agree with you ariosto that every year we find "the next big thing", and we should not get all crazy over a good workout. But to call Tskitishvili after one year is a little harsh. I am not saying he is going to be a star but hardly anyone does well their first year coming out of high school (or young out of europe).

It is just the nature of the draft to jump on the hot commodity, because what happens if you dismiss someone as a bust and the team after you drafts him and he turns into an all star.

Lonely PSU Mavs Fan
06-10-2003, 03:26 PM
...But to call Tskitishvili a bust (sorry i forgot the bust part in the last post)...

madape
06-10-2003, 03:27 PM
Sorry Asshole. But any CASUAL fan will tell you that it's WAY too early to call ANY 18 year old Euro who's never played against anything close to what Skita faced last year a "bust". Of course he didn't have a great year. BUT NO ONE EXPECTED HIM TO! Even your idiotic article, which you dredged up to make some vaccuous point, claims that he's at least a FIVE YEAR PROJECT. If he didn't live up to your expectations, then your expectations were FOOLISH. Do you think the Nuggests are giving up on him? Do you think they are just going to write him off as a "bust" this early in his development? Of course not. The only people who are doing that are short sighted idiots like you. The kid wasn't ready to play in the NBA and everyone knew it at the time he was drafted! And yes, that opinion was proven to be accurate. What else is being proven? The fact that you are a short sighted, knee jerking fool who doesn't have the insight or patience to follow a player through his development. Your opinions on the Maverick younger players already makes me want to puke. You don't have the heart to watch young players like Raef develop. And how can anyone take you seriously when you write off one of Europe's greatest players after just two weeks of disappointing play as a Maverick? God knows what you'll say if Askarabic comes and fails to score 20 points a game in his first year. Hell, I'm sure you are already planning your criticisms about the Mavericks first round pick. Will he be a "bust" if he doesn't make the all-star game next year? Short-sighted, impatient fans like you are the kind of fans who abandoned the team in the mid-nineties. You don't deserve to be a Maverick fan. You make me sick.

ariosto
06-10-2003, 03:41 PM
I can't believe people tolerate you on this board.

"We require our members to show respect for others. Respecting their person, their time and their opinions – even if you disagree with them."

I didn't even call him a bust until you started insulting me. I just was trying to make the point that prospects often get over-hyped. Do you think Skita is going to be better than Dirk? Do you think he's going to be a combination of Garnett and Kobe?

Any casual fan will tell you than 3.9 ppg on 29% shooting is not a good way to start an NBA career. There have been a lot of 18 year olds and foreign players in the NBA, many have struggled at first, and gone on to good careers. But I don't think any of them, even Dirk who may have come the farthest, who have started off so poorly.

I'm trying to keep this civil, although I don't know why I bother.

ariosto
06-10-2003, 03:55 PM
Your opinions on the Maverick younger players already makes me want to puke. You don't have the heart to watch young players like Raef develop.

Raef is 26 and hardly developing. He's averaged career lows in every statistical category. And I'm hardly the only Mav fan who dislikes him. Most people on this board would gladly get rid of his contract without compensation.


And how can anyone take you seriously when you write off one of Europe's greatest players after just two weeks of disappointing play as a Maverick?

I think I may have made an off-hand negative comment about Rigadeau once on this board. Other than that, I don't know what you are refering to. Almost everyone on this board bashed Rigadeau, who was a big disapointment (there is little doubt of that). I have never had anything particularly bad to say about him, although like most people I was hoping for more.


God knows what you'll say if Askarabic comes and fails to score 20 points a game in his first year. Hell, I'm sure you are already planning your criticisms about the Mavericks first round pick. Will he be a "bust" if he doesn't make the all-star game next year?

I don't know what you are basing this on. Because I don't like a rookie on the Nuggets?


Short-sighted, impatient fans like you are the kind of fans who abandoned the team in the mid-nineties. You don't deserve to be a Maverick fan. You make me sick.

This is just the usual drivel you use to insult people on this board. Too many people make you sick for your own good.

madape
06-10-2003, 03:59 PM
Before you go pinning a "decorum" medal on your chest, you may want to scale back your aggression as well. I think I've been insulted in this thread too... but you don't hear me complaining about how "you don't respect my opinion". I responded to your rediculous post with some harsh comments, and your skin was too thin to keep from retorting with a swear-laden personal attack. Now, everyone knows I'm no angel. But at least I can get into debate with folks without whining "it's just not fair" to anyone who will listen.

But in the interest of spirited basketball discussion - here's Jermaine O'Neil's YEAR THREE stats (he was 21 at the time):

2.6 points/game
2.8 boards/game
0.4 blocks /game

What a bust.

Fidel
06-10-2003, 04:06 PM
Ariosto,
I agree that the hype some of the euros are getting right now might be a bit too much. Same goes for US highschool players though. IMO the whole draft process has changed over the last few years. While teams where picking guys for what they are actually able to do on a basketball court right now a few years back, itīs different now. Now it is potential over skills.

All of these 18 year old foreigners are draftet for potential obviously. When comparing them to other players who enter the league you can only compare them to US highschool players. Thatīs the reason why someone like Podkolzin hasnīt gotten any playing time in Varese. The italien league is pretty damn good with alot of european stars and former NBA players. Believe me there arenīt too many 18 year olds around who would crack the rotation in any of the european leagues. Why? Because other then the CBA or NBDL these leagues are no developemental leagues for the NBA. That seems to be a misunderstanding in the US. Thereīs alot of money involved in the euroleague and in some of the european leagues as well. So the teams want to win. They canīt afford to speed up the developement of someone like Podkolzine by giving him the playing time he needs.

The NBA teams on the other hand canīt wait. They are afraid to miss on getting someone like Podkolzin who might turn out to be a great player. Thatīs why they have started to draft younger and younger guys. Iīm pretty sure though that all of the GMīs and coaches in the NBA know that someone like Skita needs at least 3 years to develope if not longer. The reason why they bring them over to the US is that they want to monitor and speed up the developement. Out of the 14 foreigeners that might be drafted this year plus the two or three high school kids, maybe three or four will be able to produce immediatly. All the other guys will need a few years.


And madape,
JO is a very good example of what I meant.

ariosto
06-10-2003, 04:07 PM
Good point, I didn't think of him. Regardless, I have no interest in keeping this up. In fact, I'm tired of posting on the same board with you. You bully people on an internet bulletin board, which is one of the most pathetic things one can possibly do. You're a soft racist with a clear prejudice for white basketball players, which is obvious to everyone here although no one will admit it. I know its not a accusation to toss around lightly but I'm completely convinced of it. You can reply with your usual stream of profanity but I'm not going to be around to read it.

madape
06-10-2003, 04:12 PM
OK, call me a racist then run away. That's nice. I like your style of argument.

Bayliss
06-10-2003, 04:43 PM
We are still going to have to wait and see on Skita. But I believe he'll be more of a 3 than Dirk will. Dirk is developing more of a 4's game while Skita appeared to me as developing more of a 3's game.

Anyway, as of right now, what separates Dirk from all of the other Euro prospects the last few years is ability to improve. Onbe year the critics say Dirk can't rebound. So he says "f-em" and over the summer he comes back as one of the best rebounders in the game. They say he can't take contact.. is soft. So he says 'f-em" and shows his gutty side. They say he can't play defense. So he says "f'em" and obtains decent low post defense, and plays the passing lanes very well. This year they say he doesn't have a post up game.. he says "f-em" and starts working in the post. They say he doesn't pass ewell enough... so he says "f-em" and starts working on his court vision. Every single year he's been in the league he has improved on at least 1 aspect of his game that he lacked the year before.

Do they other Euros have that kind of improvement in them?

(And Dirk is not the only one doing that. Kobe, T-Mac, etc are doing that. Bird did that. Jordan did that. Many of the great players did. After all that is what separates the truly great from the average players and semistars.)

Avrillicker
06-10-2003, 05:44 PM
Ariosto,your first post on this thread is stupid,simple as that. Your argument may be legitimate,but the evidence you brought to back it doesn't even begin to stand. Shut up

Tony tha Mavs fan
06-11-2003, 01:28 AM
I don't understand how you can write a player off with just his first year under his belt. Tskitishvili was playing for a rookie coach on a really bad Denver team who was focused more on Nene Halario than Tskitishvili. I don't think that Tskitishvili got half the time Dirk got on the floor his rookie year, so comparing those two doesnt make sense. It's WAY too early to call Tskitishvili a bust , he's only 19 and in 3 - 4 years his name will be along the better players in the league.

mavsfanforever
06-11-2003, 08:22 AM
Tsikish.. has actually shown some brilliance in spurts last season. But with limited playing time and exposure its really difficult to judge whether he is a bust or going to be an ALL STAR.

Lonely PSU Mavs Fan
06-11-2003, 11:29 AM
In the top five players drafted each year for the past 10 years, most of them have turned out to be pretty good. Some are all stars, some are just role players. BUt i think for the most part, everyone drafted in the top 5 goes on to play pretty well after awhile.

Epitome22
06-11-2003, 05:53 PM
I don't know about the argument for Tskitishvilli being a bust. He's got alot of years to prove himself otherwise, but I will agree with ariosto that Madape seems to have a strange fondness for not only white basketball players, but white basketball players who are either big tall stiffs, unathletic, soft, defense-challenged, have a penchant for being pushed around and emasculated, or are otherwise seemingly terrible for whatever reason. It seems like the worse they are, the more fervently he champions them, even when 99% of the basketball world knows they suck. Although it isn't a crime to sing the praises of every 6'10 soft white stiff to ever lace up suze 16 Nikes, I will say that ariosto is not alone in noticing this and I admire his willingness to bring it up .

OutletPass
06-11-2003, 06:06 PM
Mad is Mad...and like all of us comes with certain "fondnesses". And certain personality traits.
He likes the type of players that he likes. Period. But so do all of us. I have very different 'fondnesses" than Mad, for sure.

But I'm not sure about the idea that a member can "bully" others. But I do know that members can allow themselves to be bullied. I've seen a lot of people "bullied" by Murph. But he doesn't "bully me"...I just don't feel the need to argue incessantly and have very emotional reactions to other posts.

As for Mad, he (and Evil) "bullied" the hell out of me on my first day here...and I'm still here posting away !