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OutletPass
06-12-2003, 07:00 PM
I hope that you'll indulge me but I have two questions:

1) Can you rank the various European leagues in terms of skill, prestige and competitiveness fro me please.

2) If any of you has seen, either in person or on TV, any of the players projected in the draft, would you please give your own individual comments on them.

I would greatly appreciate it.

Fidel
06-12-2003, 08:31 PM
Ok hereīs how I see it:
The two best leagues are Italy and Spain. Those leagues are deep. They have tough competition an alot of real good teams. Italy has teams as Benneton Treviso, Lottomatica Roma, Montepaschi Siena, Pippo Milano and Skipper Bologna. Benneton and Skipper are playing for the championship right now. Benneton features players as Tyus Edney, Trajan Langdon, Charles OīBannon, Jorge Garbajosa...you get the idea. But they might not beat Skipper as they just lost game NR.2 of the finals to them. Skipper has A.J. Guyton and Carlos Delfino and alot of other good players. Skipper was only fifth in the reagular season.

Virtus Bologna, a team that features Dejan Koturovic, Eric Murdock, Charlie Bell, Mladen Sekularac and Derrick Dial only managed to finish at 14th place in the league so you get the idea how strong the italian league is.

Iīm not going to write as much about the Spanish league, but it is considered to be equally good as the Italian league. Good teams are Real Madrid and CF Barcelona, Tau Ceramica, Unicaja Malaga, Pamesa Valencia, Adecco Estudiantes and Caja San Fernando. Barcelona has players like Dejan Bodiroga, Gregor Fucka, Juan Carlos Navarro, Sarunas Jasekievicius, Anderson Varejao and Patrick Femerling. This is the best team in spanish basketball right now IMO, but others are nearly as good.

After Italy and Spain thereīs Greece with Teams like Panathinaikos Athen, AEK Athen and Olympiakos Piräus. The greek league has money problems and is on the way down. It is not as deep as the Italian and Spanish leagues but the top teams are still pretty good.

After that there is a group of leagues with France, Germany and Yugoslavia. France is the best of those IMO. The yugoslavian league obviously has the most young talents, but the clubs donīt have the money to keep them.

In Russia, Israel, Croatia or Lithuania youīve got one or two good or pretty good teams but thatīs it (CSKA Moskow for example).

A word on the economics. Spain and Italy are the richest leagues. The average budget of a team in Spain is around 5 mio US $, the average salary for a player is 250.000 US $. Average attendance is around 7.000 per game. I think the numbers are pretty much the same for Italy. Obviously some teams have much higher budgets and a player like Bodiroga is rumored to be earning around 2.5 mio $.

Fidel
06-12-2003, 08:50 PM
A word on the projected players. I havenīt seen many of them and if then only in short periods. Why? There are a couple reasons. The biggest reason is that where I live you canīt see any action of the other european leagues on TV. All I can watch from time to time is euroleague (and a little bit of the french league).

Most of these prospects donīt play on the really good (euroleague) teams and if they do they donīt get much playing time. That is because itīs a buisiness over here too and most of these players are very young. They are drafted on potential mostly. If you look at the rosters I posted above you can probably understand why most of these players (those who play for good team in strong leagues) donīt get much PT. They are basicly highschoolers and have ex-NBA players, european legends and world champions on their teams.

There are a few exeptions like Pietrus and Diaw who were ripping the french league for Pau Orthez. Iīve seen some french games this year and Iīve seen both of them play but I didnīt pay attention enough to add anything to the scouting reports. This I remember: they were showing some highlights of Pietrus once and boy the guy can dunk! Heīs a hell of an athlete. Didnīt think much of his shot but it seems like he has improved there. I also saw Varejao at the final four, but he didnīt get much playing time and stunk it up.

Lampe is another one I could have seen as he plays for Real Madrid. But he did only play in 4 euroleague games averaging around 8 mins. I think he got hurt then.

Podkolzine nearly didnīt play at all for Varese. Milicic, Pavlovic and Cabarkapa are all playing for teams in Serbia that I canīt catch (Budocnost and Hemofarm). They got some playing time though cause their teams and league arenīt as good. So there are at least some stats for these guys.

jayC
06-12-2003, 11:55 PM
Very interesting. Really cool to get a european report.

OutletPass
06-13-2003, 11:41 AM
Thanks Fidel...I knew that I could count on you....here's hoping for a few more posts like yours !

DNBWE
06-13-2003, 11:53 AM
Pietrus & Diaw:you know what impresses me most during the games between my team and Pau-Orthez(Pietrus and Diaw team)?i was more scared about one of their teammates called
Lukowsky!!BTW i think that pietrus won't be around when the mavs pick,and it's a shame b/c is a good player but not as good as you can read in the reports.not a reliable shooter,not really consistent but he can really dunk:what a shame that over europe we begin to judge players from the highlights...

I like a lot more diaw because he has an all-round game,it is a little bit longer(6/8)and it could(wishful thinking?) be available for the mavs :good defense,good passer,nice shot selection but he doesn't shoot 3s,don't know y...

Khryapa:i like him a lot he has athletic ability,probably the best defender in the draft -i've never seen someone defend so well against Bodiroga,the best european over here-only question is about his long range shooting but he can bring a lot of things to the game,not far from kirilenko style.

Podzolkine I've never never ever seen him play.Weird if you are italian like me and he plays here.

Delfino:he can defend,dunk(in traffic,too)average shooter i like him a lot but i don't know if it's because is a star of my italian team or because he is really good

i saw pachulia and pavlovic at least two times each,but i don't recall anything in particular

PS THANKS OUTLET FOR THE INSIDER

DNBWE
06-13-2003, 11:55 AM
in the first message i forgot
Varejao:he impresses the scouts because of his good mobility,shot blocking ability(for european standards)but he is not a good shooter,his ft shooting is horrible.he has a lot of lapses during his game,basically he can show flashes of greatness(exp.driving) but he is not consistent

digit
06-13-2003, 12:14 PM
DNBWE, thanks for your information...what`s your take on Misan Nikagbatse from Udine...did you see him play thus far?? I didn`t have the chance to see him since a Euro qualification game against Bosnia-Herzigovina(sp?)...IMO I think he would be great for the Mavs` 2nd pick...

Fidel
06-13-2003, 12:52 PM
Thanks DNWBE,
you are right about Diaw. Heīs got a nice allround game. I donīt think heīll be around at Nr. 29 though.

Iīd also like to know about Nikagbatse. Have you seen him play for Udine? And whats your team in Italy?

Avrillicker
06-13-2003, 03:58 PM
sorry,i've gone over the topic so many times already on other boards,i won't write a pamphlet. If you care,i've sent you a pm with the url of the site where i posted my opinions about the european prospects inthis year's draft; check your pm box. I concur with what Fidel wrote about the european leagues,although IMO the greek league is much closer to Spain's and Italy's than what Fidel suggests; yes,this year it was definetely a notch below but the balance of power is always shifting among the three best european leagues. Fidel prolly forgot to mention the turkish league as one of the second group,IMO the 4th best without a doubt. Besides from those leagues,competitive teams emerge also from Slovenia,Lithuania and Russia; the difference is that there's actually only one good team in those leagues,which ends up dominating it

Mandyahl
06-13-2003, 04:02 PM
avrillicker- i am interested in what you have to say as well. can you post or pm me the url of the site you talked about?

nowitzki_prophecy
06-13-2003, 04:32 PM
pretty much agree with what fidel said.
italy is without a doubt the best league in europe,afterwards you got the spanish league,and than i guess the greek leauge,which have several final four candidates.
israel has only maccabi tel aviv,everything else is pretty much shoit.

i can ansewr questions about maccabi tel aviv if anyone is interested,though i doubt you would.
hey,we have a player here,Nicola Vojcic,he just got named the second best player in europe,after ugly ass game Bodiroga.
the Man is 6'11,Post game,very good mid-range shot,more than average free thrower,and can pose a threat for three.
he will defenitly make it in the NBA,and is now looking for options in the NBA.
he isnt mature enough to play for dallas cause he'll need a couple of years,but he would defenitly be a good player,even in NBA standarts.

nowitzki_prophecy
06-13-2003, 04:39 PM
In Russia, Israel, Croatia or Lithuania youīve got one or two good or pretty good teams but thatīs it (CSKA Moskow for example).

Maccabi tel aviv is more than just good,easily one of the best in europe.
we have the former star of the Utah Jazz Quincy Lewisi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif
but seriously,we took the cup 3 years ago,and made it to the finals 2 years ago,and if we had a real coach and not David Blatt i think we would have made it this year too.
we have a pretty good budget in european standarts,something like 12-15 million dollars,and Yad Eliau is always packed,since you have 8,500 season ticket holders out of 10,000.
Blatt will probably be an assistant coach next year in Boston.

the sad part is,like fidel said,the rest of the league put together has less money than Maccabi,and doesnt pose a serious thread on taking the title.
i think that out of 55 years of playing or so,maccabi got the title 50-51,that can show you how much competition we're getting.

DNBWE
06-13-2003, 04:40 PM
to fidel and digit about nigakbatse:i don't have a clear opinion on him,b/c i didn't see him a lot BTW i don't want to overestimate him but apart from passing he has everything,jumping(remember the dunk against Yao),slashing,clutch shooting and in a supposed mav future he does have D and he is long enough to be nba pg he is listed 6-4,maybe he is 6-3, for a sg a little bit short
The only problem is that nba seems to overlook european guards(except parker),otherwise i can't figure out why a player like milos vuianic is still over here

ps My team is skipper bologna

Fidel
06-13-2003, 09:08 PM
Maccabi tel aviv is more than just good,easily one of the best in europe.
Like I said NP, those leagues all have one or two good or VERY GOOD teams. Macabbi is obviously one of the very good. At least you have that one team. We had Leverkusen and now have Alba Berlin and what have they ever really done (Alba won the Korac cup but thatīs it)?

Chicago JK
06-14-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by: Fidel
Ok hereīs how I see it:
The two best leagues are Italy and Spain. Those leagues are deep. They have tough competition an alot of real good teams. Italy has teams as Benneton Treviso, Lottomatica Roma, Montepaschi Siena, Pippo Milano and Skipper Bologna. Benneton and Skipper are playing for the championship right now. Benneton features players as Tyus Edney, Trajan Langdon, Charles OīBannon, Jorge Garbajosa...you get the idea. But they might not beat Skipper as they just lost game NR.2 of the finals to them. Skipper has A.J. Guyton and Carlos Delfino and alot of other good players. Skipper was only fifth in the reagular season.

Virtus Bologna, a team that features Dejan Koturovic, Eric Murdock, Charlie Bell, Mladen Sekularac and Derrick Dial only managed to finish at 14th place in the league so you get the idea how strong the italian league is.

Iīm not going to write as much about the Spanish league, but it is considered to be equally good as the Italian league. Good teams are Real Madrid and CF Barcelona, Tau Ceramica, Unicaja Malaga, Pamesa Valencia, Adecco Estudiantes and Caja San Fernando. Barcelona has players like Dejan Bodiroga, Gregor Fucka, Juan Carlos Navarro, Sarunas Jasekievicius, Anderson Varejao and Patrick Femerling. This is the best team in spanish basketball right now IMO, but others are nearly as good.

After Italy and Spain thereīs Greece with Teams like Panathinaikos Athen, AEK Athen and Olympiakos Piräus. The greek league has money problems and is on the way down. It is not as deep as the Italian and Spanish leagues but the top teams are still pretty good.

After that there is a group of leagues with France, Germany and Yugoslavia. France is the best of those IMO. The yugoslavian league obviously has the most young talents, but the clubs donīt have the money to keep them.

In Russia, Israel, Croatia or Lithuania youīve got one or two good or pretty good teams but thatīs it (CSKA Moskow for example).

A word on the economics. Spain and Italy are the richest leagues. The average budget of a team in Spain is around 5 mio US $, the average salary for a player is 250.000 US $. Average attendance is around 7.000 per game. I think the numbers are pretty much the same for Italy. Obviously some teams have much higher budgets and a player like Bodiroga is rumored to be earning around 2.5 mio $.


Thanks guys for giving us some insight. It is much appreciated.

I have a few questions:

How good is Dejan Bodiroga. I know the Kings drafted him late in the second round a couple of years ago. Is he another international find by the Kings? The Kings keep on finding international talent. They along with the Mavs and a couple of others put a lot of time and money overseas.

How Is Tradgon Langdon doing overseas? how much does he get paid overseas? I thought he could be a rotation guard, but it never really panned out in Cleveland. I would like to see him get another chance though.

nowitzki_prophecy
06-14-2003, 02:20 PM
Like I said NP, those leagues all have one or two good or VERY GOOD teams. Macabbi is obviously one of the very good. At least you have that one team. We had Leverkusen and now have Alba Berlin and what have they ever really done (Alba won the Korac cup but thatīs it)?

hehe,true,the german league isnt in good shape right now.
at least you kick ass in footballi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif the bundosleague(spl?)is one of the best leagues in europe.
though i believe german soccer is too technicel,your national team is beautiful to watch,and on top of all that,Khan scares the shit out of me!

its just seems like its not a very populer sport in germany.

Avrillicker
06-14-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by: Chicago JK


I have a few questions:

How good is Dejan Bodiroga. I know the Kings drafted him late in the second round a couple of years ago. Is he another international find by the Kings? The Kings keep on finding international talent. They along with the Mavs and a couple of others put a lot of time and money overseas.

How Is Tradgon Langdon doing overseas? how much does he get paid overseas? I thought he could be a rotation guard, but it never really panned out in Cleveland. I would like to see him get another chance though.


Dejan's presence is a guarantee of success in europe: it's been like that the last three years (Greek league title and two euroleague titles,all won practically by himself in the 4th quarter, + the WBC). Call him the Michael Jordan of europe,although his game is different; the impact however is the same.
In the Nba,he would be at best as a super-sub,because he can't keep up with the pace for long periods and is a terrible defender; not few NBA fanchises have courted him and the Kings to finally have that 4th quarter go-to guy to put them over the hump. Sacramento was finally convinced - since Bodiroga doesn't want to play for them - but to date no-one's been able to entice Dejan. Since he's 31,it's probably too late. Why take the hassle when he can rule and earn some nice bucks in europe?

Trajan Langdon is doing what he does best: shooting the threes. His stats are excellent,his team Benetton Treviso is leading 2-1 in the italian league fianels,they lost to Barcellona's Bodiroga in the euroleague final (@Barcellona...). But he remains a role player,playing in the perfect system for him; otherwise he's a limited player for european standards too

nowitzki_prophecy
06-14-2003, 03:06 PM
could'nt have said it better myself,except i hate hate hate hate hate bodiroga!you thought duncans game was ugly,you really need to check this guy out.

OutletPass
06-14-2003, 03:15 PM
This is a GREAT thread....keep it going.

I really appreciate the international view from our "overseas" Texans.

asola
06-15-2003, 05:29 AM
Hi, since I'm new here and I'm from Europe, I thought I should begin here.

I agree with what has been said, Italy, Spain and Greece, a little less Turkey, plus Maccabi Tel-Aviv, are the teams with money. Young prospects are more apt to be found in the former Yugoslavia republics, at least in numbers, in Russia also. Occasionally teams from those countries have some young stars which allows them to be at the top while they aren't signed by the rich teams, now with the NBA signing people so young that will be more difficult I guess.

I think international prospects will be a disappointment this year. After some years of under-rating (Dirk at nine was several years ago, but just two years ago, when Gasol was picked third, everybody in the US loathed the Grizz) now the tide has turned and it seems everyone wants to pick an international steal. Well, it's not going to happen with people who are not even playing in Europe. A 7-5 300-pound guy who can run the floor and can shoot some and didn't play a minute anywhere? I don't buy it. By the way, I think Chad Ford -the Insider guy who reports on international prospect-, although he is an entertaining reporter he's over-hyping any player he watches.

The player I have seen a lot is Anderson Varejao and there's no way he can make it in the NBA. Not worth a first-round pick even if there is some potential (he has some physical tools, but he lacks desire and has no great feel for the game, just a body).

I'm pretty sure Darko Milicic will be for real but other than that I'm not sure about anyone. But we'll keep you posted!

DNBWE
06-15-2003, 12:16 PM
asola,you are right about the over-hyping international players by scouts and columnists
exp. regarding this year,but in the long period?

us on basketball has the same dominance that europe has on soccer

In european soccer,we have the best coaches,best training,best facilities,more money than anyone and nevertheless players keep coming from everywhere,not only from western europe and you know why?
because western europe has 300.000.000 people
Rest of the world has 6.000.000.000


think about this example:
the % of soccer players in europe is bigger than the % of basket players in US,let's assume the % is the same DO YOU THINK,IF THERE WAS A DRAFT IN SOCCER ,YOU'D HAVE MORE THAN 15 PLAYERS COMING FROM GERMANY,ITALY,FRANCE,UK & SPAIN?i don't think so .The other 15+ players would come from all over the world -incidentally this is what really happens-

If a sport is really global (and the basketball is about to become global)players come from everywhere. It's so simple:
us potential players are 290.000.000
rest of the world 6.000.000.000
maybe this year cold be a disappointment,but the perception that i felt reading some columnist that picking international is only
a trend for a limited time,is wrong.

Drbio
06-15-2003, 01:37 PM
This is a great thread. Well done OP!

Mandyahl
06-15-2003, 03:24 PM
yeah, this is really cool!

asola
06-16-2003, 04:14 PM
Sure, I agree bandwagon fan, international prospects are here to stay. But after many years under-rating them, I think they are going to be over-rated overall now, and probably for one or two more years. The international rookie success the last couple of years, headlined by Gasol and Yao-Ming but joined by other talented players like Ginobili has prompted a lot of attention and no one's second-guessing teams for picking internationals anymore.

I guess the hype will go down after some bluffs and the evaluation system will keep improving so that scouts and GMs won't be taking decisions based on hope more than information. For instance, Macej Lampe plays for Real Madrid but not for the first team, the second team. Yes, he's only 18, but 20-year-old 7-footer Edu Hernández is playing on the first team since last year and no one's talked about him. Does that make much sense? Well, maybe Hernández didn't want to join the draft yet -he might be a draft pick in the coming years although he doesn't seem to be improving- but I would be very wary of that Lampe kid. Of course, I haven't seen him play so I could be completely wrong.

My general thumb rule would be to be wary of unproven players with great potential (Milicic aside) and keep an eye on 21 or 22-year old, smaller than 6-10' players who have been successful in Euroleague action or in national teams. Gasol was playing a lot in Euroleague when he was 18, Ginobili and Jaric were in the Final Four best starting five last year, you get the idea. Boris Diaw would be the player that best fits these criteria, I think, although if in doubt I would always take a Yugoslavian.

Chicago JK
06-16-2003, 04:23 PM
thanks for all the responses.

can anyone give me scouting updates on these players?
Kristaps Valters
Notes: Averaged 19.1 points a game for Skonto in the minor leagues of Europe.

Positives: He's an electric point guard that zooms up and down the floor and is lethal from long range. He has a wide array of one-on-one moves, including a sweet cross-over. His dad was a legendary coach on the Russian national team.

Negatives: By now you know the drill. His defense isn't very good and he lacks the strength needed to play in the pros. Luckily, both things can be taught.

Summary: When NBA scouts start traveling to Latvia, you know there's something to his game. Volters could be this year's Milos Vujanic. He's fallen off the radar screen a bit because of where he plays, but lately he's gotten a lot of attention from scouts. Right now he's on the late-first round, early-second round bubble.


Boyko Mladenov

Notes: Mladenov has played professionally since 2000 for Levski in Bulgaria. In 2001, he was invited to a Los Angeles Lakers summer camp.

Positives: He's a big kid with a soft touch around the basket. He may be a 7-footer, but he has the agility to play power forward in the NBA. He runs the floor well, and always plays very hard. He's a pretty good defender.

Negatives: Mladenov lacks the strength to play in the NBA post. He doesn't have a refined low-post game yet, though you see signs of him being able to develop into a legit four.

Summary: Mladenov was once considered one of the top young players in Europe. Playing in Bulgaria didn't do a lot to help his stock the last couple of years. You might not hear his name much, but several teams haven't forgetten about him. There's a good chance he'll hear his name called in the second round.


Boran Sekulic
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/blagotasekulic.htm

nowitzki_prophecy
06-16-2003, 05:53 PM
great point DNBWE.
its hardly the facileties that would state the amount of talent,i see it more as the amount of the popularity in the country.
if you love the sport,it doesnt matter if you use a string ball you made up or a Nike originel,its how much you practice that matters.

OutletPass
06-17-2003, 01:14 PM
There are some new names surfacing....

Anyone know these guys in the 2nd round projections ?

Pacellis Morende

Year of Birth: 1981
Place of Birth: Creil(France).
Height ft: 6' 2"
Height cm: 188
Position: Guard
Nation: France
Now playing In: JDA Dijon Bourgogne (France)



Notes
A great athlete, very quick and with outstanding leaping ability, his game style is that of competitiveness and heart........doesn't have great size, and must play full time at the point guard.........he's smart on the court, and is a versatile player.........still an in-beetweener at the two guards, it can be said he's actually more of a shooting giuard then a point guard.........has good shooting skills, can hit three's and pull up jumpers.........apparently, he has not got great weakness, he can do almost everything fairly well.........solid on defense, has athletic skills to contain opponent's one on one.........makes full-court pressure as has great speed and lateral mobility.........helps under the boards, despite short size.........Paccellis is coachable, an hard worker.........needs to adjust his game to become more of a point guard, however, in 1999-00 he's been playing 10 minutes per game in the French A league.........he has great potential, not used by his team, because he plays the back-up spot behind a foreigner.........just needs the confidence of a team to become, in a short time, a starter at the French top level.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zoltan Bende
a 7' guy from hungary who's 21.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sani Becirovic
Birthdate: 5/19/81
NBA Position: PG/SG
Ht: 6-4
Wt: 194
European Team: Kinder Bologna
Hometown: KK Bistrica, Slovenia
Tele Basket Profile
Euroleague Profile

European Perspective:

Strengths: He's a natural leader who can play both guard positions, but he definitely prefers to play SG. Has two dimensions to his game: he can shoot from three (even from NBA range), and he's a terrific one-on-one player. A very creative playmaker, with driving ability, great vision, and he's an above average passer. Good ball-handling makes him a good PG. Very quick hands, he really anticipates well, and can steal lots of balls, but he's not a good one-on-one defender. He's a better off the ball defender than on the ball defender. He flourishes pushing the fastbreak, and he tends to finish by himself, rather than passing the ball. Very good player in clutch time.

Weaknesses: The problem is on defense. He has to work very hard to improve. He is better now than two years ago, but has a ways to go. A good athlete, not super but good. The knee injury he suffered in the 2001 season was quite bad. He skipped more or less all of the season and there were rumors his career might even be over. He has since played and looked good. I think he will recover, but if his quickness (which is one of his main features on a basketball pitch) is affected even a little it will really be a detriment. He's just an average rebounder. One thing about Becirovic, he covers opponents who are smaller very well, even though they are quicker, like Edney in the Euroleague Final Four, but once an opponent gets physical with him while he's guarding them, or he gets a tough pick, he's lost immediately, so he really has a tough time guarding bigger players.


-Gabriele Giannini
-Uros Velkavrh


Professional Outlook: Becirovic's career was written off for dead 8 months ago after a knee injury which doctors diagnosed as likely career ending. Becirovic appears to have been resurrected by corrective surgery on both knees. He was born with a genitic disorder which affected his knees. Becirovic is finally practicing without pain. He's legend in European basketball for his accomplishments in junior competitions. He could be drafted based on potential and left in Europe to see if he can make a full recovery.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks again to our International texans !!

Fidel
06-17-2003, 01:21 PM
I think the first guys name is Morlende not Morende.

Avrillicker
06-17-2003, 02:47 PM
Sani Becirovic is damaged goods. About one year ago he was diagnosed with a degenerative process in his knee gristle; he underwent a surgical operation but even if successful there's no guarantee it will stop the degeneration. However the news have been good lately,and he seems on his way to recovery. In the meantime Virtus Bologna has refused to pay him the guaranteed salary and now the dispute is to be settled in a court (becirovic won the first round and the bookmakers consider him the favorite for the final verdict). He should then come back to play for the club - he's signed for 4 more years,for a total of $ 10 millions,after tax. Even if there's a happy ending for him,it'll take some time before he can make it to the NBA

OutletPass
06-28-2003, 12:45 PM
I wanted to bring this thread back to the top...in light of the recent draft....seems like so many international players fell. It was a pretty All-American draft in some ways.

But I have one more question that I hope that you "international Texans" might help answer.....and it's about Lampe.

Does Real Madrid, the basketball team, have any financial, business or organizational ties to Real Madrid, the Soccer (football) team ?

I just had this thought pass through my mind while reading about the signing of David Beckham.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out.

Avrillicker
06-28-2003, 12:48 PM
yes,they're the same club

OutletPass
06-28-2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks so much, Avrillicker.

Another question, then:

Since they spent so much on Beckham, do you think Lampe's "contractual" problems are an attempt to recoup money....or is Real Madrid a VERY financially sound organization.

Avrillicker
06-28-2003, 01:41 PM
financially sound? mmmh,a few years ago they had to sell their real estate in the outskirt of Madrid to pay $250 millions debts...
since then however their investment in the soccer team has paid off nicely; they're the star team and the merchandise sales all over the world have skyrocketed. Presently they're probably the richest soccer club of the world. $3 millions are not peanuts,but in the yearly budget of Real Mdrid they're almost insignificant. Furthermore,the annual budget of the basketball team might be 1/20 of the soccer team's. Or even less.

edit: No,it's certainly much less than that

asola
06-29-2003, 12:06 PM
Yes, both Real Madrid and FC Barcelona are soccer teams with basketball as sidelines. They are an afterthought, but if the soccer team is not doing well it's a kind of consolation prize to win in basketball. That's why last year Barcelona went in a buying spree and got Bodiroga and Gregor Fucka, another excellent european player (a second-rounder some time ago I think). They've been rewarded with the Euroleague title. Now, since Real Madrid had their worst basketball campaign ever and Barcelona, their arch-rival, won the Euro league, it's unlikely they'll want to sell Lampe. However, if their coach thinks he's not going to help the team now maybe they prefer to use the money on older, more mature players. By the way, their new coach is Julio Lamas, Argentina's World Championship coach, the first coach ever to beat a US pro team.

asola
06-29-2003, 12:11 PM
Oh, and the ironies of fate: George Karl also coached Real Madrid.

OutletPass
06-29-2003, 12:43 PM
Thanks so much Asola and Avrillicker...

I've just been trying to understand how a "last minute" problem with Lampe's contract could arise...with him having been projected at the 5th pick, it just doesn't make sense that tems wouldn't have known about this problem weeks ago.