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OutletPass
06-24-2003, 09:54 AM
Draft Rumors: The Sonic swap?
By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Tuesday, June 24
Updated: June 24
10:38 AM ET


We've been saying for days the Raptors were the team to watch in trade talks. Late Tuesday night, they may have finally come up with a winner.


"Yeah, there is some talk going on," Raptors GM Glen Grunwald told the Toronto Star. "There's always a chance of doing something. How likely? I don't know right now."

After flirting with the Knicks, Blazers, Mavs, Bulls and Celtics -- the Raptors began talking about a deal with the Sonics that may be too good to pass up.

Insider first reported on ESPN News Monday evening the Raptors and Sonics were discussing a deal that would send Vladimir Radmanovic, Brent Barry and the No. 12 pick to Toronto for Jerome Williams, Michael Bradley and the No. 4 pick in the draft.

Why are the Sonics willing to give up so much to move up eight spots in the draft? They are convinced that Chris Bosh has the talent to be an All-Star power forward in the league. While the team would settle on Nick Collison, Michael Sweetney or Brian Cook later in the lottery, none of them have Bosh's upside. Recently, several GMs have been comparing him to a young Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and even Jermaine O'Neal. The Sonics believe he's exactly what they need in the post.

The Raptors, who feel they need to put a winning team on the floor this year, aren't going to get a better deal than that. Radmanovic has the trappings of a solid NBA small forward, Barry can play the one or the two and is in the last year of his deal, and at No. 12 they would likely be able to grab the guy they really like, Georgetown's Mike Sweetney. A line-up of Alvin Williams, Vince Carter, Vladimir Radmanovic, Mike Sweetney and Antonio Davis would be tough to beat in the East.

Several things are giving the Sonics pause about the deal however. One, they'd prefer to leave Barry and Williams out and make it a straight Radmanovic and the No. 12 for Bradley and the No. 4. While Williams would give the Sonics immediate help in the post, he has a whopping five years remaining on his deal. Barry, on the other hand, is done after this season and could be valuable trade bait in his own right. In an ideal world, the Sonics would love to package Barry and the No. 14 pick to Miami in return for the No. 5. They would use that pick to select KU's Kirk Hinrich.

They're also loathe to pass on Radmanovic, whom they still believe has the potential to be a star. The problem for Seattle is that Radmanovic and Rashard Lewis play the same position. The Sonics tried to move Radmanovic to the four this year, but he was uncomfortable playing in the post. If the Sonics are going to get someone with star potential at the four, they're going to have to part with Radmanovic to do it.

Radmonivic's agent David Baumann told the Tacoma Tribune he hoped his client was traded if the team drafts a power forward. "Vladimir wants to play," Baumann said. "If they draft a power forward, somebody's minutes are going to get cut. If that is the case, I would hope they would make a move to cut their ties with Vlade by trading him."

If the deal does go through, the Sonics will use their 14th pick on a point guard. Currently UNLV's Marcus Banks, Brazil's Leandrinho Barbosa, Louisville's Reece Gaines and Oregon's Luke Ridnour are under consideration with the team leaning toward drafting Banks.

More trade talk

The Raptors have been in talks with several other teams, but most of that seems to have cooled. Talk of a possible deal that would send Latrell Sprewell to Toronto is dead according to several media outlets. The Chicago Tribune is also reporting that Toronto offered its fourth overall pick and forward Lamond Murray for the Bulls' pick at No. 7 and Donyell Marshall. According to the Tribune, GM John Paxson shot that deal down. The Raptors pursued Marshall in free agency last summer.

That doesn't mean the Knicks won't trade Spree. Coach Don Chaney said on Monday the team is trying. "Nobody's safe when you're trying to improve the team," Chaney told the NY Post. "His name always come up in trades simply because he's a good player. If there's a great deal that comes along, anybody can be traded, not just Latrell."

Among the players the Post says the Knicks are after? The Sixers' Keith Van Horn, Houston's Eddie Griffin, Dallas' Raef LaFrentz and Shawn Bradley, Portland's Dale Davis, Memphis' Stromile Swift and Lorenzen Wright and Chicago's Marcus Fizer.

Nets GM Rod Thorn laughed off reports that he'd consider a sign-and-trade with the Mavs for Jason Kidd. "It's not anything I'm going to do," Thorn told the New York Daily News. "You can do it. (But) I am not interested in doing it. There will be a lot of rumors and innuendos in the next week or two until he makes his decision. . .For a sign-and-trade, the player and two teams have to be agreeable to it. Why do that?"

Bulls GM John Paxson says it's unlikely that he'll move their pick with Jay Williams future in doubt. "What Jay's injury did was take away some flexibility we have,'' Paxson told the Chicago Sun Times. "It wasn't a priority that we were going to go out and trade one of our guards.

"As you can imagine, there are a lot of teams around the league who don't have a point guard and were asking us what we could possibly do. There was nothing imminent or close, but you do have discussions along those lines. But now we don't have that option, so that's off the board.''

With Williams injury, it appears that Dwyane Wade may now have moved into the top position for the Bulls. "It puts some guys on our board that probably weren't there a week ago,'' Paxson said. "There's also ways to address the guard position in free agency and other things.It does not all of a sudden become a priority for us to go out and draft another guard. But it does put some people in play who weren't in play a week ago.''

Paxson all but confirmed he won't trade the pick.

"It's very likely now we'll have that pick,'' he said.

The first trade before the draft didn't make much of a splash. The Celtics sent the rights to Darius Songaila to the Kings for two second round picks. This year that gives the Celtics the rights to the 56th pick in the draft.

Songaila was one of the best players on one of the top teams in Europe this year. He averaged 14.5 ppg in the Euroleague Final Four and many GMs commented that he'd have been a Top 15 pick in this year's draft had he performed that well in Europe before putting his name on the draft.

It could be a steal for the Kings. It gives them a smart, tough player to put in the post. He's a great passer, knows how to score with his back to the basket and he's tough. He lacks athleticism, but he's a great guy to bring off the bench.

Stock Watch

Polish forward Maciej Lampe got a big compliment from the Sonics after he worked out there on Monday. The Sonics were one of the first teams to claim that Lampe wasn't a legit lottery prospect. After seeing him on Monday, that's changed.

"You don't necessarily have secrets, but you do have mistakes made in evaluations of European players simply because you don't see them as often," David Pendergraft, Seattle's director of player personnel told the Seattle Times. "Lampe was the only European (that) I didn't see multiple times and quite frankly, I screwed up on my evaluation.

"I knew who he was. I knew who he played for, but when I saw him that one time, he had a horrible game. ... Some of my friends said, 'David, he's better than what you think.' "

"I'm not going to say he was a 180-degree different from what we saw, but he was considerably better. The point is, you have to spend time over there and see as many players as you can multiple times or you're going to miss something."

Knicks GM Scott Layden had some praise for Sofoklis Schortsanitis after he worked out for the Knicks on Monday. "This is a big guy and very strong," Layden told the N.Y. Times. "Picture going into a high school game this past year and looking out on the court and saying: 'There's Sofoklis. What a great prospect.' He's a young guy with tremendous potential and his size is going to benefit him. In the N.B.A., he's very, very strong. He runs well and has good footwork for a guy at that size and at that experience level."

Monday's workout was the second for Sofoklis with the Knicks. Right now Sofoklis stock seems to be in the mid first round.

Texas point guard T. J. Ford continues to see his stock drop after a series of lackluster workouts. Meanwhile KU's Kirk Hinrich now may have passed him on several draft boards, including Miami's at No. 5. If the Heat can't move their pick, there's a shot that they could take Hinrich there. What happened to Ford?

"Everyone loves him in games," one GM said. "But it's easy to pick on his flaws in workouts. The size and shooting issues really stand out to the point the overshadow his ability to create. I don't think he should be dropping. Sometime we put too much emphasis on workouts."

North Dakota's Jerome Beasley still has an outside shot at making the first round. But could he go as high as the mid first round? The Hornets may be interested. They've been doing some extensive background checks on Beasley. Originally, the Hornets' plan was to take someone like Brian Cook here. With Cook moving up and out, at least one source in New Orleans claims that Bob Bass has become enamored with Beasley. This is pretty high for Beasley to go, but factor in the goofy comments above, and it just might make some sense.

Western Kentucky's Chris Marcus worked out for dour NBA teams -- the Orlando Magic, Miami Heat, Los Angeles Clippers and Denver Nuggets -- on Monday. Marcus, who was once considered a lottery pick, tried to show teams that his surgically repaired foot was going to be alright.

"You can still see that high extension (to the basket) and soft shots," the Magic's Gary Brokaw told the Charlotte Observer. "I just hope he gets back in basketball shape."

Marcus weighed about 30 pounds above his playing weight. "It doesn't hurt to walk on it or jump on it," said Marcus. "In the morning it feels a little stiff, but after a couple of steps it's fine. No more hobbling around."

Workout News

Raptors: GM Glen Grunwald is flying to New York on Tuesday to look at a handful more players ? including, Central Michigan's Chris Kaman, Illinois forward Brian Cook, and Louisville guard Reece Gaines.

Bulls: Serbian two guard Aleksandar Pavlovic is in town on Monday.

Grizzlies: Georgia's Jarvis Hayes worked out in Memphis for the second time.

Heat Center Chris Kaman worked out on Monday. Polish forward Maciej Lampe comes in for his second workout with the Heat today.

Knicks: Zarko Cabarkapa and Sofoklis Schortsanitis were in New York on Monday. Chris Kaman will be in today. Maciej Lampe and T. J. Ford will be working out in New York on Wednesday. The Knicks were also trying to have Chris Bosh work out on Wednesday. However, Bosh's reps refused

Hawks: Alabama's Maurice "Mo" Williams and Boston College's Troy Bell joined four big men -- Marquis Estill, Szymon Szewczyk, Josh Powell and Jerry Holman -- at Monday's pre-draft workout. BYU's Travis Hansen is in town today.

Jazz: Serbian Alexsandar Pavlovic and Xavier's David West will work out today along with North Dakota center-forward Jerome Beasley and SMU guard Quinton Ross. Wednesday, the Jazz will work out Duke swingman Dahntay Jones, Notre Dame guard Matt Carroll and DePaul forward Sam Hoskin.

Sonics: Maciej Lampe worked out in Seattle on Monday. The team will workout Georgia's Zaur Pachulia today.

Wizards: France's Paccelis Morlende and Croatia's Zoran Planinicwill work out today.

Hornets: Illinois forward Brian Cook worked out for the Hornets on Monday. The club also looked again at North Dakota forward Jerome Beasley.

T-Wolves: The team will bring in Boston College's Troy Bell on Wednesday.

Mandyahl
06-24-2003, 10:11 AM
Among the players the Post says the Knicks are after? The Sixers' Keith Van Horn, Houston's Eddie Griffin, Dallas' Raef LaFrentz and Shawn Bradley, Portland's Dale Davis, Memphis' Stromile Swift and Lorenzen Wright and Chicago's Marcus Fizer.

too bad there's not really anything i want from the knicks...

Dallas_Star
06-24-2003, 11:41 AM
Is it possible to get their pick and spree for raef or bradley?

OutletPass
06-24-2003, 03:31 PM
Anything's possible, Simon.

I've been watching the Seattle ESPN board to see their reaction AND....

Most are blowing off this rumor as nothing at all. They're looking to use their two picks on Hinrich and Collison/Sweetney. Even the radio people are calling it "posturing".

As for Toronto, A line-up of Alvin Williams, Vince Carter, Vladimir Radmanovic, Mike Sweetney and Antonio Davis would be tough to beat in the East., I just think this is a huge f*ing joke. That team MIGHT make the playoffs...then again, it might not.

This is taken from their board and is pretty representative: What pile of crap. This trade doesn't address any of our needs and there's no guarantee Sweetney will even still be on the board at twelve.

Most in Toronto think that their GM is just trying to stir up action for the #4 pick....

but it so happens that bosh worked out for Seattle today.

Drbio
06-24-2003, 04:41 PM
If NY could get the #4, I would be happy to send them Bradley and Raef in some kind of deal to get that pick.

Mandyahl
06-24-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by: Dallas_Star
Is it possible to get their pick and spree for raef or bradley?

ummm...i wouldn't think so. why would they send us their star and lottery pick for one of our crappy centers? we would have to throw someone else (nve?) in.

Just211
06-24-2003, 09:20 PM
you think the NY talk has anything to do with Dallas looking at Peitrus. He'll probably be there at 9.

Mandyahl
06-24-2003, 09:51 PM
well, donnie has said that getting a pick in the lottery is not realistic for us...which probably means that is exactly what we are trying to do.

Just211
06-24-2003, 09:59 PM
if NY wants Raef I say give him to them.

Dallas trades:
Raef
Esch
29
57

Ny trades:
Ward
Knight
9
39

the deal would be delayed until July 30th, so Raef is more tradeable

As far as players Dallas gets raped, but they unload their commitment to Raef and Esch(although he has a kicker) while adding the 9, and moving up in the 2nd. Also, I know Ward and Knight suck, but they are both in their last year of contracts, so we swallow the $, and free up some future. NY picks up the center they want, while still having the 29 and 30th picks in the draft.

but it'll never happen.

Mandyahl
06-24-2003, 10:07 PM
i actually like that trade somewhat.

Dallas_Star
06-25-2003, 08:28 AM
That trade is great if we can somehow unload Travis Knight on someone. Charlie Ward is of no use here b/c there is a log jam at guard anyway. If we got him I'd want to trade him to someone else in exchange for someone we could find use for.

Just211
06-25-2003, 08:52 AM
no one would take knight or ward, so they'd sit the bench until their contracts are up at the end of the season