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Old 12-08-2016, 08:22 PM   #81
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Fultz
Harris
Wes
Barnes
Dirk?/?


On board with the starting 5, but that center...
Honestly not sure if Harris is here next year with that partial guarantee. And I think even if we get Fultz he's going to come off the bench to start his career. The only time I really see rookie pg's start are for teams that have fully embraced a rebuild(multiple years). I'm still not convinced this isn't going to be just a 1 year "organic tank" and then back to free agency plans as usual. We are set up in a way that we could have under 10m cap space or over 30m cap space. But I do think that they will try to sign the players they target to be competitive first, and if they can't sign them then we might see them fully rebuild which Fultz would likely start then.

And while the topic of the starting 5 is up, I would like to say that a perfect fit to me for the Mavs in free agency next year is Serge Ibaka. He can play small 5 against teams today and he can be a stretch 4. So he spaces the floor, he can switch defenders well, and he adds some shot blocking. He can also roll to the rim well so in a pnr heavy offense he could roll or pop making him pretty good for this offense more than likely. He's also 27 and fits in well with Barnes age where he's not so young that he needs to learn how to win but not so old that the window is a short time. I'd be on the door for Ibaka instead of chasing some inevitable pipe dream of BG32 or something that we will probably try.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:30 PM   #82
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Honestly not sure if Harris is here next year with that partial guarantee. And I think even if we get Fultz he's going to come off the bench to start his career. The only time I really see rookie pg's start are for teams that have fully embraced a rebuild(multiple years). I'm still not convinced this isn't going to be just a 1 year "organic tank" and then back to free agency plans as usual. We are set up in a way that we could have under 10m cap space or over 30m cap space. But I do think that they will try to sign the players they target to be competitive first, and if they can't sign them then we might see them fully rebuild which Fultz would likely start then.

And while the topic of the starting 5 is up, I would like to say that a perfect fit to me for the Mavs in free agency next year is Serge Ibaka. He can play small 5 against teams today and he can be a stretch 4. So he spaces the floor, he can switch defenders well, and he adds some shot blocking. He can also roll to the rim well so in a pnr heavy offense he could roll or pop making him pretty good for this offense more than likely. He's also 27 and fits in well with Barnes age where he's not so young that he needs to learn how to win but not so old that the window is a short time. I'd be on the door for Ibaka instead of chasing some inevitable pipe dream of BG32 or something that we will probably try.
Fine with me but we've been down the road of trying to convince free agents to come play in Dallas.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:49 PM   #83
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Fine with me but we've been down the road of trying to convince free agents to come play in Dallas.
Yeah but Ibaka isn't the same kind of FA I don't think. Unless I'm criminally underestimating what the league thinks of him. He's not what DH12 was when we traded down and saved all our pennies for him. He's not LMA, Conley, or Whiteside type players where they were the best available at their positions. Depending on if BG32 and Milsap opt for FA.. which I think it almost a certainty, Ibaka is at best the 3rd on the list I would think. And it's not like we are trying to take him away from a contender, he's currently on a pathetic Magic team. I just want to convince him to join an equally pathetic team

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Old 12-08-2016, 09:03 PM   #84
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If we didn't get my first choice of Noel as our franchise center, I'd be totally cool with 4-5 years of Ibaka. He's started to play well after a pretty rough start in Orlando and with their roster composition, I could easily see him bolting this summer.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:12 AM   #85
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That Ibaka trade was a strange one for Orlando. Oladipo and Sabonis is a lot to give up for a guy on a one year deal with no guarantee of re-signing. It's not like they were one piece away...from even the playoffs, apparently.
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Old 12-09-2016, 10:43 AM   #86
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What if the Mavs were somehow able to pull off a Nerlens Noel trade and attract Ibaka in FA? This would assume Bogut and Williams are traded or denounced and that Powell/Anderson are most likely included in the trade for Nerlens. Another assumption is Dirk taking less, again.

PG - Fultz / Barea / Harris
SG - Matthews / Curry / Brussino
SF - Barnes / Finney-Smith
PF - Ibaka / Dirk
C - Noel / Mejri / Hammons

Leaving 2 spots most likely filled via draft/FA.
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Old 12-09-2016, 01:23 PM   #87
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What if the Mavs were somehow able to pull off a Nerlens Noel trade and attract Ibaka in FA? This would assume Bogut and Williams are traded or denounced and that Powell/Anderson are most likely included in the trade for Nerlens. Another assumption is Dirk taking less, again.

PG - Fultz / Barea / Harris
SG - Matthews / Curry / Brussino
SF - Barnes / Finney-Smith
PF - Ibaka / Dirk
C - Noel / Mejri / Hammons

Leaving 2 spots most likely filled via draft/FA.
Strong in theory. Possible? I'm not sure that Anderson/Powell gets us Noel.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:18 PM   #88
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And while the topic of the starting 5 is up, I would like to say that a perfect fit to me for the Mavs in free agency next year is Serge Ibaka. He can play small 5 against teams today and he can be a stretch 4. So he spaces the floor, he can switch defenders well, and he adds some shot blocking. He can also roll to the rim well so in a pnr heavy offense he could roll or pop making him pretty good for this offense more than likely. He's also 27 and fits in well with Barnes age where he's not so young that he needs to learn how to win but not so old that the window is a short time. I'd be on the door for Ibaka instead of chasing some inevitable pipe dream of BG32 or something that we will probably try.
yeah, not sure about that. I wouldnt be surprised if he is allready 30...
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:59 PM   #89
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Strong in theory. Possible? I'm not sure that Anderson/Powell gets us Noel.
I was going off the notion that they are the only player assets that the 76ers would be interested in. Picks could also be used but the Mavs need all the picks they can get. Perhaps package a pick gained via trade of other veterans.
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Old 12-09-2016, 05:01 PM   #90
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I was going off the notion that they are the only player assets that the 76ers would be interested in. Picks could also be used but the Mavs need all the picks they can get. Perhaps package a pick gained via trade of other veterans.
Yeah if we can get a late-first or high second for Bogut it might work. Honestly hopeful that we can move Bogut for a pick whether we keep the pick or use it in a deal.

I don't think we'll be able to move Williams. He's on a one-year deal to be in his hometown. He also has to approve any trade. If we wanted to move him, he'd probably just refuse or he'd retire.

If Dirk retires we'll be sitting at 59mill with a projected cap of 102 mill. That'd be about 43.5mill in space
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:03 PM   #91
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Surprised to see Ivan Rabb falling...down to 15 on draft.net. He needs to put on weight, but he is so good around the rim. Elite even. He would be an absolute steal if he actually fell that low, but I still think he'll be top 10.
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:40 PM   #92
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Yeah if we can get a late-first or high second for Bogut it might work. Honestly hopeful that we can move Bogut for a pick whether we keep the pick or use it in a deal.

I don't think we'll be able to move Williams. He's on a one-year deal to be in his hometown. He also has to approve any trade. If we wanted to move him, he'd probably just refuse or he'd retire.

If Dirk retires we'll be sitting at 59mill with a projected cap of 102 mill. That'd be about 43.5mill in space
I think if a contending team called needing a vet PG for their playoff push Deron might be willing to go. I'm not sure he nets more than a 2nd rounder, but I'd take that.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:39 PM   #93
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Don't look now but Sixers just won 2 in a row!
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:08 PM   #94
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I don't think we'll be able to move Williams. He's on a one-year deal to be in his hometown. He also has to approve any trade. If we wanted to move him, he'd probably just refuse or he'd retire.
I wonder if he would accept a trade to have a legit chance at a ring. If Cleveland would make a call to the Mavs I'd have to think Deron would have interest in relocating for a few months.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:58 PM   #95
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Ball is still the real wild card of the top 5. Will he be the next Kidd or Ricky Rubio? Because those two players are very different. His jump shot is very weird and ball handling sometimes looks average.

He has been making off the dribble long range threes frequently recently so that is a good sign. But man, that jump shot is weird looking.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:26 PM   #96
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Ball is still the real wild card of the top 5. Will he be the next Kidd or Ricky Rubio? Because those two players are very different. His jump shot is very weird and ball handling sometimes looks average.

He has been making off the dribble long range threes frequently recently so that is a good sign. But man, that jump shot is weird looking.
I feel exactly the same way.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:27 PM   #97
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Ball is still the real wild card of the top 5. Will he be the next Kidd or Ricky Rubio? Because those two players are very different. His jump shot is very weird and ball handling sometimes looks average.

He has been making off the dribble long range threes frequently recently so that is a good sign. But man, that jump shot is weird looking.
Not as ugly as Marion's shot, but Ball does have that "shoot from the hip" wind up when he goes into his shooting motion... I can see him getting blocked A LOT in the NBA -- almost the anti-Dirk when it comes to his mechanics.
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Old 12-17-2016, 06:04 PM   #98
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I'm still taking Fultz, he is the best prospect imo, his team simply sucks. Markkanen is having a good season too, he has a chance to follow in Kristaps' footsteps and be very good from day one. Not nearly as of a high ceiling prospect like KP6, but a very good player nonetheless. If we start to win games or get really unlucky in the lottery, I wouldn't mind taking him around 7-8-9.
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Old 12-17-2016, 06:11 PM   #99
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It is good that other guards are stepping up. Gives Mavs better chance of landing Fultz if they end up not having number 1 pick. I was first to mention Markkanen on this board and really see him somewhat resembling Dirk. I do not mean talent, just doing similar things and would fit well into the system Rick has been running so far.

Unfortunately, Markkanen seems to have settled in to playing in the States. Was hoping that he has longer adjustment period and would be projected to go around 20th pick, so Mavs could perhaps find a way for late 1st round pick also.

In the end, Mavs have to go with need and talent, that would be a guy like Fultz. Markkanen could actually hurt Mavs because he is not good enough for defensive efforts and it is still unclear where Barnes ends up playing the most. I would not want Markkanen on center position any more than Dirk.
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Old 12-17-2016, 06:49 PM   #100
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Ball gives me that Kendall Marshall vibe. That offense is going to be hurt bad by NBA defenses.
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:13 PM   #101
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Not as ugly as Marion's shot, but Ball does have that "shoot from the hip" wind up when he goes into his shooting motion... I can see him getting blocked A LOT in the NBA -- almost the anti-Dirk when it comes to his mechanics.
And the question is do you reinvent the wheel with his shot or let him keep doing it? It's a huge risk on an important draft.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:00 AM   #102
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Hope we get #1 and take Josh Jackson. Beginnings of a scary long athletic frontline. Would lack spacing until he improves his shot. Having Wes and a PG than can shoot would help.
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:31 AM   #103
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And the question is do you reinvent the wheel with his shot or let him keep doing it? It's a huge risk on an important draft.
I would probably let him keep it. Marion had an elite three point shooting season, as ridiculous as this may sound. Something like 39% on more than 200 makes, I think. Nope, looked it up, just 140 makes on 39%, and overall he was an inconsistent shooter. Well, flipper. Problem is, Marion's release was actually quick, whereas Ball's is not only low, but seems to be slow as well. That's a recipe for disaster, though the funny thing is, he makes them at an amazing clip right now. I don't know, the sample size is just too small, I would make him shoot threes during the workout almost exlusively. Shoot it from movement, set shots, put defenders on him, show me everything. If he can impress, you draft him if you think he is the best player otherwise.

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Old 12-18-2016, 12:35 PM   #104
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Love watching Ball. He sees the entire floor so well. Still unsure out of him and Fultz
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:22 PM   #105
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Love watching Ball. He sees the entire floor so well. Still unsure out of him and Fultz
It's a no brainer to me. Fultz is as sure of a thing as you can hope for. Ball's shot is just too much of a question mark for a top 3 pick imo. If we end up picking 4-5 and walked away with him I would be happy.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:57 AM   #106
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In case you missed Fultz last game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ezwe09uP9Y

If you don't have 5 minutes, just go to 4:02. But in general you can see his game and how easy the offensive side will translate at the next level. He is as smooth and under control as anyone I have ever seen at 19 years old.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:12 AM   #107
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In case you missed Fultz last game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ezwe09uP9Y

If you don't have 5 minutes, just go to 4:02. But in general you can see his game and how easy the offensive side will translate at the next level. He is as smooth and under control as anyone I have ever seen at 19 years old.
I'm just being picky since we're talking about the number 1 pick, but he still doesn't look fully comfortable dribbling with the left hand. He looks better than earlier in the season, but it is a concern if he is going to play full time PG in the NBA.

Otherwise, he has few holes in his game. Seems to excel at all things versus being good at just one thing.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:13 AM   #108
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I still have my preferred pg list as Fultz > Smith > Ball. But I will say that Ball is much closer to Smith now for me. In fact, if we didn't have RC to run the flow offense and call plays from the sides then I'd probably take Ball over Smith. I just think in our offense Smith might be a better fit than Ball. Fultz to me is starting to separate himself as a possible consensus #1 though. He just looks so comfortable at everything and I really think his skillset fits our personnel(Wes and Barnes) better than any of the others in this draft. Maybe Jackson is still heavily in the mix and maybe Giles will explode onto the scene but as of now I think Fultz has at least gone from "a possible #1" to maybe the "perceived favorite".
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:06 AM   #109
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Fultz isn't perfect, but he's the most complementary player to Matthews and Barnes. Dude can create crazy anarchy both inside and out. He can hit our center on the PnR. He can kick it out to Matthews (which is where Matthews' strength is). He can open things up for Barnes.

I'm not sold that Ball can do that at the next level.
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Old 12-20-2016, 01:15 PM   #110
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My dream:

Fultz / Barea / Harris
Wes / Curry
Barnes / Anderson
Ibaka / Dirk / Powell
Bogut? / Salah / Hammons
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:32 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Fultz isn't perfect, but he's the most complementary player to Matthews and Barnes. Dude can create crazy anarchy both inside and out. He can hit our center on the PnR. He can kick it out to Matthews (which is where Matthews' strength is). He can open things up for Barnes.

I'm not sold that Ball can do that at the next level.
This is exactly why I prefer Fultz and do not want to see Wes traded. Fultz fits both the biggest talent and team need area. You can rarely get someone who is talented and fits your team's need.

Right now Fultz would fit in great and complement Wes and Barnes. Put Ibaka in the mix and you already have a decent team. Perhaps adding Noel for cheap also.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:48 PM   #112
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Bogut is playing in Golden State next season
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:36 PM   #113
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Bogut is playing in Golden State next season
??
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:30 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayth.james.g View Post
In case you missed Fultz last game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ezwe09uP9Y

If you don't have 5 minutes, just go to 4:02. But in general you can see his game and how easy the offensive side will translate at the next level. He is as smooth and under control as anyone I have ever seen at 19 years old.
Good stuff. Having a player like this would keep me watching mavs far after Dirk has retired. (Feels like a pipe dream no way the mavs out otter the 76ers)
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Old 12-21-2016, 09:57 AM   #115
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Good stuff. Having a player like this would keep me watching mavs far after Dirk has retired. (Feels like a pipe dream no way the mavs out otter the 76ers)

Having the worst record doesn't mean we get the #1 pick, so we just need Cuban to bribe whoever created the draft order. Yes, I still believe the lottery is rigged.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:04 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayth.james.g View Post
In case you missed Fultz last game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ezwe09uP9Y

If you don't have 5 minutes, just go to 4:02. But in general you can see his game and how easy the offensive side will translate at the next level. He is as smooth and under control as anyone I have ever seen at 19 years old.
Play at 1:12 in the PnR was smooth decision making. What separates him for me is the smoothness in which he plays, and the fact he is showing well with the PnR and shooting. He's going to be good.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:29 AM   #117
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Having the worst record doesn't mean we get the #1 pick, so we just need Cuban to bribe whoever created the draft order. Yes, I still believe the lottery is rigged.
The top 8 should be solid picks so there is a chance Cuban will be able to trade for the guy he wants. Unless Fultz is immensely above the rest (which is quite possible) we could hopefully trade for him if he is our guy.

Quite honestly I'd say we'll get a good player no matter what. In fact I saw a mock draft that had us taking Ball #1.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

I don't think we can go wrong with Fultz, Ball, Smith, Jackson, Giles, Isaac, Tatum, or Monk.

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Old 12-21-2016, 03:51 PM   #118
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Too bad we don't have two first round picks since there are so many good players. Seriously, it could stretch up to 20 good players depending on how a lot of the freshmen develop.

One guy I'm keeping an eye on is Edrice "Bam" Adebayo. He is like a better offensive Bismack Buyombo. Also seems to get to the line at a decent rate and is fairly good at free throws for a big.
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:56 PM   #119
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Too bad we don't have two first round picks since there are so many good players. Seriously, it could stretch up to 20 good players depending on how a lot of the freshmen develop.

One guy I'm keeping an eye on is Edrice "Bam" Adebayo. He is like a better offensive Bismack Buyombo. Also seems to get to the line at a decent rate and is fairly good at free throws for a big.
I think there's a decent chance he could fall to 15-25 and a pick like that could be acquired for Bogut and other young talent (Anderson, Curry, etc.)
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:44 PM   #120
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I think there's a decent chance he could fall to 15-25 and a pick like that could be acquired for Bogut and other young talent (Anderson, Curry, etc.)
I think DFS and Brussino make Anderson very expendable which would make him a decent TDL or draft day piece to help acquire a late round pick.
Then package that pick with our 2nd to move up to grab a guy like Adebayo or another center if a decent one is available.

I think we should keep Curry though because he can become a great scorer off the bench and seems to still have some upside. I can see him being part of the long-term plan in the JET/VC/NVE role.

If we can address PG and Center in the first round we're in good shape going into next season. I'd be happy with Fultz or Ball. Fultz can fill up the stats but Ball has the potential to be the best play-making PG in the league early in his career which is one of the most critical pieces to have in a rebuild process.

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