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Old 06-26-2018, 09:12 PM   #161
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Drinking age in Spain is 18. I'm sure the dude has witnessed the insanity of Madrid club life. Luckily he's not coming to the US and suddenly going to hear the call of the club.

Im not suggesting that. Im just saying that hes been part of the party scene already in Spain. The nightlife in Dallas is a lot of fun and athletes have been known to get themselves in trouble around town. I just hope that hes one of the smart ones and keeps his nose clean. If he does hell be revered around town like Dirk is. If not hell see a lot of what Zeke Elliott has seen since hes been in Dallas.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:35 PM   #162
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Im not suggesting that. Im just saying that hes been part of the party scene already in Spain. The nightlife in Dallas is a lot of fun and athletes have been known to get themselves in trouble around town. I just hope that hes one of the smart ones and keeps his nose clean. If he does hell be revered around town like Dirk is. If not hell see a lot of what Zeke Elliott has seen since hes been in Dallas.
He's going to have to do a lot more than that to be revered like the GOAT. Dirk is on the Mt. Rushmore of Dallas sports.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:53 PM   #163
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He's going to have to do a lot more than that to be revered like the GOAT. Dirk is on the Mt. Rushmore of Dallas sports.

I agree! He will also have to keep his nose clean like Dirk has. Hopefully Doncic can do the same.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:05 PM   #164
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I gotta say.. I regret making last year (of all years) the year that I finally fly out to Dallas to see a game. And two times in one year, even! :/

I'll definitely hit both Portland games this year.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:13 PM   #165
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I gotta say.. I regret making last year (of all years) the year that I finally fly out to Dallas to see a game. And two times in one year, even! :/

I'll definitely hit both Portland games this year.
Im hitting both Mavs-Suns Games

Might also consider driving 90 minutes to see the Legends and Nothern Arizona Suns play if we see Brunson, Spalding, and Kostas
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:57 PM   #166
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Gonna have to be NY, Phil, Toronto, DC or Cleveland drive for me
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:18 AM   #167
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Ugh, AAC is 5 min uber ride away, ughhhhhh
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:15 PM   #168
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All SA & HOU games for me.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:03 PM   #169
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Damn, things move fast these days -- there's already a Luka/Dennis track out there: https://soundcloud.com/dflo224/the-future
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:19 AM   #170
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Damn, things move fast these days -- there's already a Luka/Dennis track out there: https://soundcloud.com/dflo224/the-future
Umm
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:23 AM   #171
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Umm
Hey, I wasn't accounting for quality, just existence... Don't trip over that bar I set.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:33 AM   #172
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Hey, I wasn't accounting for quality, just existence... Don't trip over that bar I set.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:39 AM   #173
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Lets set the bar to this...so it means the Luka/DSj song is Grammy worthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBZ6XH9xr7k
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:52 AM   #174
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Dude trying to limbo under the bar I set...
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:06 AM   #175
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Lol oh my. This thread is fishtailing all over the road now. I think it needs to devolve into bad NBA rappings.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:11 AM   #176
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Lets set the bar to this...so it means the Luka/DSj song is Grammy worthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBZ6XH9xr7k
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:35 AM   #177
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Lets set the bar to this...so it means the Luka/DSj song is Grammy worthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBZ6XH9xr7k
What the actual fuck?

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Old 06-28-2018, 11:36 AM   #178
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What the actual fuck?
And you can't un-watch it now. You are forever tainted.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:52 AM   #179
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He's going to have to do a lot more than that to be revered like the GOAT. Dirk is on the Mt. Rushmore of Dallas sports.

Interesting train of thought to run with....

Roger Staubach
Troy Aikman
Emmitt Smith
Dirk Nowitzki

Edit: I only considered athletes. If we're including coaches or other general sports figures, then Tom Landry is not only on Mount Rushmore, he's on the f**king $1 bill, and the city of Dallas could be renamed "Landry."

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Old 06-29-2018, 06:59 AM   #180
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Interesting train of thought to run with....

Roger Staubach
Troy Aikman
Emmitt Smith
Dirk Nowitzki

Edit: I only considered athletes. If we're including coaches or other general sports figures, then Tom Landry is not only on Mount Rushmore, he's on the f**king $1 bill, and the city of Dallas could be renamed "Landry."
What if you could only pick 1 player from each major sport -- NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL? Dirk and Madano are obvious... What about the Rangers? Pudge? Ryan? You could make arguments for both... But the Cowboys? Lots of choices there. Staubach is the classic answer, but Aikman had more rings, and Emmitt had the most individual success... I probably go Dirk-Madano-Pudge-Emmitt, although it almost seems sacrilegious not to have Staubach on there..

/thread hijack
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:29 AM   #181
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Interesting train of thought to run with....

Roger Staubach
Troy Aikman
Emmitt Smith
Dirk Nowitzki

Edit: I only considered athletes. If we're including coaches or other general sports figures, then Tom Landry is not only on Mount Rushmore, he's on the f**king $1 bill, and the city of Dallas could be renamed "Landry."

Id include Mike Madano in that group.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:04 AM   #182
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I think Modano gets looked over a bit because Cowboys are king in Dallas. Of course when you think of the Dallas Stars Modano is the first name that comes to mind. I'd probably go Staubach, Dirk, Modano, and Emmit.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:16 AM   #183
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I'm not a big baseball or Rangers fan, but where does Nolan Ryan stand in that list?
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:51 AM   #184
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I'm not a big baseball or Rangers fan, but where does Nolan Ryan stand in that list?
Ryan was huge in Rangers baseball. He is...how to explain this... He is much larger in Rangers lore than his actual production. He wasn't here very long and was 40+ in age. So yeah, he was still pitching at a high level, but he wasn't necessarily at the peak of his prime. Amazingly enough, he had a prime that went from 1972 to 1991. But that prime only extended 3 to maybe 4 years of his time with the Rangers. His name alone brought the Rangers a tremendous amount of legitimacy. There was talk about the Rangers moving somewhere else in the country. Because of Ryan, that didn't happen.

So where does he stand? Realistically, he stands as tall or taller than anyone in the history of DFW sports. He is as beloved as anyone to ever come through the DFW sports scene. The only real comparables would be Staubach and Ryan. But, you might not put him on the Mount Rushmore of the DFW sports simply because he wasn't here long enough.

If you're picking one from every sport, Ryan would be on your short list of possibilities for the Rangers:
Pudge
Ryan
Juan Gonzalez (although he's not beloved by fans so that takes him out of the running. But he was among the best in the game during his time in Texas. Top 5 in MVP voting 3 times in Texas including 2 wins)
Michael Young (although he's a bit of an average player that just happened to play a long time in Texas... he was a "leader" and is beloved
Adrian Beltre (far better player than Michael Young..still playing at a high level)

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Old 06-29-2018, 09:57 AM   #185
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Ryan was huge in Rangers baseball. He is...how to explain this... He is much larger in Rangers lore than his actual production. He wasn't here very long and was 40+ in age. So yeah, he was still pitching at a high level, but he wasn't necessarily at the peak of his prime. Amazingly enough, he had a prime that went from 1972 to 1991. But that prime only extended 3 to maybe 4 years of his time with the Rangers. His name alone brought the Rangers a tremendous amount of legitimacy. There was talk about the Rangers moving somewhere else in the country. Because of Ryan, that didn't happen.

So where does he stand? Realistically, he stands as tall or taller than anyone in the history of DFW sports. He is as beloved as anyone to ever come through the DFW sports scene. The only real comparables would be Staubach and Ryan. But, you might not put him on the Mount Rushmore of the DFW sports simply because he wasn't here long enough.
Spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:29 AM   #186
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I'd put Pudge and Michael Young above Nolan Ryan for the Rangers. As alluded to, we got some good years of pitching from him, but on the down side and out. But I feel his front office contributions are exaggerated and that he wasn't as instrumental to that side of Rangers' success as most think.

I'd love to have had Beltre for more seasons. He'd absolutely be the front runner.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:56 AM   #187
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All I remember of Nolan is Robin Ventura, Nolan Ryan duke it out
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:17 PM   #188
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I'd put Pudge and Michael Young above Nolan Ryan for the Rangers. As alluded to, we got some good years of pitching from him, but on the down side and out. But I feel his front office contributions are exaggerated and that he wasn't as instrumental to that side of Rangers' success as most think.

I'd love to have had Beltre for more seasons. He'd absolutely be the front runner.
Michael Young was a very average MLB starting position player. He just happened to be a very average MLB starting position player for a long time in a Rangers uniform. Not sure who to compare him to in the NBA... maybe a slight tick behind a Derek Harper type.. A nice player.. But if you have a team full of them, you're not going to compete for any titles.
Michael Young did have 2-3 outlier seasons in which he was a really good player. But on average, he was pretty average as far as major league starting position players go.
For instance, the first year the Rangers went to the World Series, Michael Young was 11th on the team in WAR...

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Old 06-29-2018, 02:59 PM   #189
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Hmm a career .300 hitter, 7 time all-star, gold glove winner, leadership role for years, intangibles (when it comes to a Mt. Rushmore)...

He's far from average, come on...

And the year you referenced was his age 33 season in which he had a down year, still hit .284 with 21 HRs and 91 RBI. He bounced back pretty strongly in 2011. It was also the year where his issues arose with the Rangers and he requested a trade. First year he primarily DH'd and used more like a utility infielder, occasionally playing first base. I think he can get a slight mental pass there.

In any event, he most definitely belongs in the conversation with Nolan and Pudge when discussing who would rep the Rangers.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:23 PM   #190
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What if you could only pick 1 player from each major sport -- NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL? Dirk and Madano are obvious... What about the Rangers? Pudge? Ryan? You could make arguments for both... But the Cowboys? Lots of choices there. Staubach is the classic answer, but Aikman had more rings, and Emmitt had the most individual success... I probably go Dirk-Madano-Pudge-Emmitt, although it almost seems sacrilegious not to have Staubach on there..

/thread hijack
Gotta go with UD on this list:
Dirk
Madano
Pudge
Emmitt
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:14 PM   #191
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Gotta go with UD on this list:

Dirk

Madano

Pudge

Emmitt


And Staubach
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Old 06-30-2018, 02:06 AM   #192
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I considered Modano. For me, Mount Rushmore isn't necessarily who's the best. It's who's the biggest name, and who's the biggest legend. The only way he makes the DFW Mount Rushmore is if you're required to include someone from each sport. If you're requiring someone from each major sport, then Modano is mandatory. Otherwise, if we're just going by biggest names/legends in the history of Dallas sports, not only does he not make Mount Rushmore, but honestly he's not even close IMO. Don't get me wrong, this isn't because he doesn't necessarily deserve it, or he didn't have a great enough career. It's because, well... it's hockey. As far as the four major sports go here in Dallas in terms of popularity/importance, hockey is not only fourth, but it's a veeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyy distant fourth. I listen to ESPN Dallas in the car almost every afternoon. I'd wager they spend at least 75% of the time talking about the Cowboys, the rest of the time is pretty evenly split between the Mavs and Rangers. The Stars, however, practically not even on the radar. Honestly, they might as well play in a different city, going by how much the local media covers them.

So on that basis, while Modano certainly had greater career relative to his respective sport than say, Tony Romo, Romo was and still is a FAR bigger name here in DFW than Modano ever was. Honestly, you could come up with a pretty long list of Cowboys who register much higher on the DFW sports radar than Modano ever did, even if they didn't accomplish near as much in the NFL as he did in the NHL. Just about any noteworthy Cowboy through the years probably garnered more attention here than one of the top 100 NHL players ever. Dak Prescott, Ezekiel Elliott, Jason Witten, Dez Bryant, Demarcus Ware, Michael Irvin, Tony Dorsett, Drew Pearson (hell, pretty much anyone from the Landry years...) Honestly, I might even put Daryl Johnston higher than Modano.

Honestly I don't think any Rangers would come even close either, or any Mavs outside of Dirk. Dirk is the one and only exception because he's one of the top 20 greatest NBA players ever.

Last edited by Thespiralgoeson; 06-30-2018 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 06-30-2018, 03:04 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Michael Young (although he's a bit of an average player that just happened to play a long time in Texas... he was a "leader" and is beloved
You need to review his statistics.


They are very comparable to this person's. Was he also a bit of an average player?
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Old 06-30-2018, 03:06 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson View Post
I listen to ESPN Dallas in the car almost every afternoon. I'd wager they spend at least 75% of the time talking about the Cowboys, the rest of the time is pretty evenly split between the Mavs and Rangers. The Stars, however, practically not even on the radar. Honestly, they might as well play in a different city, going by how much the local media covers them.
To your point, they have their Hockey Minute. Literally...60 seconds for hockey.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:03 PM   #195
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I should have put the caveat with my list that there was one athlete for each of the 4 major professional sports franchises.

If it's strictly legends, then for me

Dirk
Ryan
Staubach
Emmett
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:58 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by BigDog63 View Post
You need to review his statistics.


They are very comparable to this person's. Was he also a bit of an average player?
Ermm I know you are supporting my argument as Michael Young as definitely above average. But to Derek Jeter was by far the better player in that grouping you presented. Derek Jeter is in the all-time conversation for shortstops.
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:10 PM   #197
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I have to admit I was never high on My Bamba, but this board's comments of his wit and IQ changed my opinion. It was mostly down to my reluctance to have any 7'1+ player on a team. History shows that they will suffer a serious injury and you never know how they will respond.

Mavs drafting Luka was a pleasant surprise, but it has been amazing how Luka was hyped before draft and after joining Mavs he became like a role player. Coach Nick of BBallbreakdown was hyping him before draft but when it was clear that Trae Young is joining Hawks, his live commentary of draft spent much more time about talking what Trae is and discussion about Luka lasted less than a minute. It is almost as he hates Mavs.

I personally see Luka as minimum Ginobili potential and Trae Young more of an improvement of Deshawn Stevenson, who can score better and pass better (mostly due to improved talent over the years). I'm sorry to say but he just doesn't sound that smart / capable to mention amongst future Russell-Westbrook-like talents. Similar could be said about Ayton. I think Ayton ends up as solid starter but missing that something to make him a star. Just comments and behaviour leave a lot to wish for. Talent and physical attributes are there, but to carry a team... I'm less sure of that. Besides, he's joining PHX Suns...
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:39 PM   #198
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Hmm a career .300 hitter, 7 time all-star, gold glove winner, leadership role for years, intangibles (when it comes to a Mt. Rushmore)...

He's far from average, come on...

And the year you referenced was his age 33 season in which he had a down year, still hit .284 with 21 HRs and 91 RBI. He bounced back pretty strongly in 2011. It was also the year where his issues arose with the Rangers and he requested a trade. First year he primarily DH'd and used more like a utility infielder, occasionally playing first base. I think he can get a slight mental pass there.

In any event, he most definitely belongs in the conversation with Nolan and Pudge when discussing who would rep the Rangers.
Michael Young had three years with an OPS+ above 110 in his career. Keep in mind that 100 is league average. His career OPS+ was 104. As a hitter, he was slightly above average. He just didn't get on base enough for a guy that didn't have a ton of power. I know you can look at his numbers and think he had some pop, but in that era in baseball, he really didn't have much.

Defensively, I know he won a gold glove, but he was bad.. His dWAR for his career was a -10.5. For as big of bad rap as Dirk gets for his defense..think worse..far, far worse..significantly worse. No, he didn't make a ton of errors, he just didn't have any range. Again, his WAR for his career was 24.6 What does that tell you? 0-2 for a WAR in a single season is basically a sub level. 2+ is a starter level. During his PRIME years in Texas, he had a combined WAR of 27.4 over the 10 year period. That's a starter but far below an All-Star level. Not one year in his career did his WAR even approach All-Star level.

Michael Young will always be the beneficiary of advanced metrics not being main stream in the baseball world. If they were during his prime, he would have been looked at in a much different light.

He was a pretty good to good player. But if he's on your Mount Rushmore..your Mount Rushmore sucks especially if you're just picking one person from each sport.


In contrast, Pudge's career WAR was 68.7 with a 10 year stretch in Texas totaling 47.4..averaging playing right about at an All-Star level year in and year out).

And for reference, in Ryan's 4 full years in Texas from age 42-45, his WAR averaged 4.0...

I know that Palmeiro isn't going to get alot of votes from anyone, but he belongs right up there.

Jim Sundberg belongs up there ahead of Michael Young. He was a generational type talent defensively and developed into a decent hitter.

Toby Harrah vs Michael Young would be an interesting argument. Harrah was the better player for his career but you could make an argument for Young over Harrah because of the amount of time he spent with Texas.

I would put Charlie Hough right there with Michael Young as well. ERA+ of 111 in his 10+ years in Texas with 139 wins.

And trust me, I know that it's difficult to use WAR comparing pitchers and hitters... Advanced metrics aren't everything. But they do a pretty good job. Defensive metrics are flawed, but over the course of a career, they tend to be a pretty good indicator of whether or not you're a good fielder.

Last edited by Luke; 07-03-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare View Post
Hmm a career .300 hitter, 7 time all-star, gold glove winner, leadership role for years, intangibles (when it comes to a Mt. Rushmore)...

He's far from average, come on...

And the year you referenced was his age 33 season in which he had a down year, still hit .284 with 21 HRs and 91 RBI. He bounced back pretty strongly in 2011. It was also the year where his issues arose with the Rangers and he requested a trade. First year he primarily DH'd and used more like a utility infielder, occasionally playing first base. I think he can get a slight mental pass there.

In any event, he most definitely belongs in the conversation with Nolan and Pudge when discussing who would rep the Rangers.
And yes, the year I referenced wasn't his best year by any stretch..but, it wasn't that far off of his average year. And it leads us to what Michael Young was. Michael Young was an average to pretty good player on a bad team for a long time. When the team was good, he was an average to pretty good player. He's so wildly appreciate by fans in Texas in large part because there was so little to appreciate with the Texas Rangers for several years. But that shouldn't get you on Mount Rushmore. Charlie Hough was a pretty good to good pitcher for a long time with the Rangers... He was one of the only things to look forward to... But he doesn't belong either.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:37 PM   #200
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This thread turned into a shit show
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