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Old 01-04-2019, 01:17 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Screw Barnes AND Porter -- they're both overpaid for what they produce. So it's not Barnes vs. Porter, it's Barnes/Porter vs anyone else in the league you can give that money to... I'll take Barnes since one year less on his contract makes him the objectively better option. The sooner we move on from surrounding Doncic with overpriced guys who don't fit his game, the better.
This. I wasn't trying to say Barnes is demonstrably better than Porter. I still think he's better though but that isn't the issue. The issue is both are very much overpaid. I don't want to pay either remotely that much so give me the option that gets us out of that contract the fastest.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:30 PM   #82
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People are pretending that Barnes is going to opt out of his 25mill this summer like it's a sure deal, but I'd wager that he opts in,
No one is pretending its a sure thing, but there is a really good chance. Of course he wont get another 25m/year deal but for him it could be the best option to secure another 4/80 deal.

Right now he is our 2nd go to guy with a high usage rate. He is one good FA (Randle etc) and an improved DSJ away from being a shared 3rd/4th fiddle in 19-20. Where he wont get the same amount touches, shots etc.His numbers would drop. Maybe add a shooting slump from outside etc. And if the teams spend again like crap next summer, the 2020 FA money could dry up (like it happened in 2017).

Next summer he can still sell him as a 20PPG wing with solid defense and good to great outside shooting. Someone missing out on the Tier A FA and desperately wanting to sign someone (like the Mavs in 2016) could easily throw 4/80 at him.

Or let him stay, become a 3rd/4th fiddle, dried up 2020 FA money....

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Old 01-04-2019, 02:03 PM   #83
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Max contract this year and 2 more for a better Doug McDermott? That's a horrible selling point. If he was even making close to Wes money, then it's much closer at least. But you are talking about giving up free agency for the next two years if we get him and keep DJ. Is this a championship contending team in 2-4 years?

DJ
Player X
OPJ
Luka
DSJ
How do you term larger = better? May be a should have a said a much, much, much better McDermott? My point was he would fit this team much better than iso Barnes and I see the upside versus comparing his number on a sputtering Wizards team to Barnes on this team.

Also, for the record, again, the contract is the hold up for me, though I think he would be worth closer to it's value here than in Washington.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:04 PM   #84
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The McDermott comparison for Porter is horrible...

And yeah, Porter would be a good fit. A much better fit than Barnes.And i like the Porter trade where we dump Powells useless 10 mio next season.

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Old 01-04-2019, 02:45 PM   #85
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The McDermott comparison for Porter is horrible...

And yeah, Porter would be a good fit. A much better fit than Barnes.And i like the Porter trade where we dump Powells useless 10 mio next season.
I get where people are going with McDermott... we would probably run the exact sets for OPJ that we did with Doug when he came here and shot like 52% from three. I bet we could get Porter to 42% from three on 7-8 attempts per game. If he can do that and play his typical standard of defense, he'd be the 2nd best player on our roster right now.

For those bemoaning the loss of cap flexibility for the summer of 2020.... who in that class do you want us to pursue instead? Not a very strong class. Should we really turn down a quality starter (albeit a slightly overpaid one) because we're going to sign Anthony Davis?
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:51 PM   #86
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I get where people are going with McDermott... we would probably run the exact sets for OPJ that we did with Doug when he came here and shot like 52% from three. I bet we could get Porter to 42% from three on 7-8 attempts per game. If he can do that and play his typical standard of defense, he'd be the 2nd best player on our roster right now.

For those bemoaning the loss of cap flexibility for the summer of 2020.... who in that class do you want us to pursue instead? Not a very strong class. Should we really turn down a quality starter (albeit a slightly overpaid one) because we're going to sign Anthony Davis?
Thank you. No where was it mentioned that OPJ = McDermott. He would be an extremely better version and fit due to everything else he does other than shoot 3's, namely defense and rebounding.

I think the initial trade discussions from a Mavs FO perspective would be something like Matthews and Powell for OPJ, with obvious filler involved.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:23 PM   #87
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I get where people are going with McDermott... we would probably run the exact sets for OPJ that we did with Doug when he came here and shot like 52% from three. I bet we could get Porter to 42% from three on 7-8 attempts per game. If he can do that and play his typical standard of defense, he'd be the 2nd best player on our roster right now.

For those bemoaning the loss of cap flexibility for the summer of 2020.... who in that class do you want us to pursue instead? Not a very strong class. Should we really turn down a quality starter (albeit a slightly overpaid one) because we're going to sign Anthony Davis?
OPJ could actually be a good trade asset, as a large soon- to- be expiring who can actually play, if a star changes teams in the next couple years.

I'm with Sefant, in that I'd only deal for OPJ if Powell is outgoing on our end. Then you are effectively paying Porter 17m next season, and the following season he opts out or is a large salary matching expiring contract. Barnes is likely opting out, preserving a max-ish spot just in case, assuming DAJ is back in the neighborhood of 15-17m. Or we could make a big offer for Vucevic and spend the leftover on a PF or SG.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:34 PM   #88
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For those bemoaning the loss of cap flexibility for the summer of 2020.... who in that class do you want us to pursue instead? Not a very strong class. Should we really turn down a quality starter (albeit a slightly overpaid one) because we're going to sign Anthony Davis?
YES.

Because we ARE going to sign someone like Anthony Davis... You guys need to get over your Nobody-Wants-To-Play-With-Old-Dirk PTSD and look at what we have here with Luka. The kid is special, and I can absolutely see big name FAs wanting to play with him, even more so if two of them can come here at once. Fair or not, the kid has more hype around him at 19 than Dirk ever had at any point in his career. Players are taking notice.

And it's not just FAs, it's trades too... Having extra cap space can allow us to eat bad contracts in pursuit of a stud or facilitate multi-team deals -- and having an expiring Harrison Barnes gives us a solid financial/talent asset to put on the table (like, does a HB/DSJ package net you a bona fide All-Star?)

You don't aim for guys like Otto Porter Jr, you settle -- and there's no need for us to settle right now.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:43 PM   #89
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Max contract this year and 2 more for a better Doug McDermott? That's a horrible selling point. If he was even making close to Wes money, then it's much closer at least. But you are talking about giving up free agency for the next two years if we get him and keep DJ. Is this a championship contending team in 2-4 years?

DJ
Player X
OPJ
Luka
DSJ
DJ isn't getting more than 14 a year at 31

DJ (14)/ Powell (10.3)
???/???/???
Porter or Barnes(25.5)/ ???/???
Luka (7.7)
DSJ (4.5)/Brunson (1.4)
-----------------------------------
63.4 mill.
That gives us 45.6 mill in cap space with Jordan re-signed and the cap changes very little with Porter or Barnes. That's enough for a max money guy at one of the forward spots.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:44 PM   #90
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PF free agents this summer (if we re-sign Jordan)

Durant - so long of a shot that it's not worth considering
Porzingis - center/PF who probably wouldn't play well with Jordan. Most likely of the bunch at that level if he's ever healthy again
Middleton - SF more than PF
Randle - seems like an excellent option. Rebounds, drives, and even has a jumper now
Tobias Harris - SF more than PF
Thaddeus Young - defent rebounding PF at 6'8"
Millsap - plays big for 6'8" and rebounds relatively well. Will he leave Nugs? Would he pair well with Doncic and Jordan in the frontcourt (defensively particularly but also offensively)
Jabari Parker - Again, more the size of a SF. Has regressed and wants out of Chicago. Could be had, but not sure about his fit with Doncic
Ariza - Good defense. More of a SF
Morris bros - More SFs, but worth a look
Oubre - 6'7 SF who can't rebound
Bogdanovic - 6'7" sharp shooter who struggles to defend or rebound (like Barnes)
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:51 PM   #91
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Looking to confirm, but it also looks like Otto Porter, Jr. has a 15% trade kicker in his contract. I don't think I can get to a trade scenario that justifies paying him $30mm/year, even if we did the deal for Barnes/Powell. Even though I think OPJ would thrive here and be a better contributor overall to the team's success, that's hard to get around.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:58 PM   #92
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C free agents if we opt to pass on Jordan
Hortford - 32 years old and 6'10". Might be worth a look, but may take a 30mill player option and not even hit FA
Cousins - hasn't played yet, but we'll see. He will want to move on for more money, but Lakers have money and Lebron.
Gasol - may be looking to get out with the rocky lockerroom. JJJ is promising, but not as much as Doncic, but he'll be 34 next season.
Deandre Jordan - Top 2-3 rebounder. One of the worst defensive centers. Gonna be 31
Vujecic - Decent rebounder. Good scorer with good hands. Just really bad on defense like Jordan, but two years younger.
Whiteside - Will he ever leave MIA after having such a rocky tenure there? Will he walk away from 27 mill next year (player option). 13/13/2.5 guy who does everything we need from a center (defense, rebounding, and ability to punish cheaters)
Howard - ha! No one wants Superman
Brook Lopez - Powell jr. Rebounds worse than Powell, but slightly more effective shooting jumpers
Valanciunas - 7 foot bruiser who rebounds with the best. Solid team defender. May be able to be pried from Toronto if Kawhi leaves
Kanter - Improving defensively. Really strong rebounding. Smart player who wants out of NYK according to rumors. May be traded to a place that makes him happier mid-season though.

Lots of good choices out there if we don't want Jordan. It may also bring down the prices or make some players available. The era of the 10-10 center demanding a max contract is over luckily.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:02 PM   #93
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C free agents if we opt to pass on Jordan
KAT - wants huge money and thinks he's a star. Also restricted FA and Minn will keep him to sell tickets even if he's overpaid
Hortford - 32 years old and 6'10". Might be worth a look, but may take a 30mill player option and not even hit FA
Cousins - hasn't played yet, but we'll see. He will want to move on for more money, but Lakers have money and Lebron.
Gasol - may be looking to get out with the rocky lockerroom. JJJ is promising, but not as much as Doncic, but he'll be 34 next season.
Myles Turner - Another 6'11" Texas boy. 13pts, 7reb, 4blcks this year for Indy. Not a great rebounder, but worth a look as a 22 year old project. Definitely need defense inside, but our rebounding would look weak if we didn't pair him with a rebounding PF. Turner with Barnes would be a huge step back on the boards.
Deandre Jordan - Top 2-3 rebounder. One of the worst defensive centers. Gonna be 31
Vujecic - Decent rebounder. Good scorer with good hands. Just really bad on defense like Jordan, but two years younger.
Whiteside - Will he ever leave MIA after having such a rocky tenure there? Will he walk away from 27 mill next year (player option). 13/13/2.5 guy who does everything we need from a center (defense, rebounding, and ability to punish cheaters)
Howard - ha! No one wants Superman
Brook Lopez - Powell jr. Rebounds worse than Powell, but slightly more effective shooting jumpers
Valanciunas - 7 foot bruiser who rebounds with the best. Solid team defender. May be able to be pried from Toronto if Kawhi leaves
Kanter - Improving defensively. Really strong rebounding. Smart player who wants out of NYK according to rumors. May be traded to a place that makes him happier mid-season though.

Lots of good choices out there if we don't want Jordan. It may also bring down the prices or make some players available. The era of the 10-10 center demanding a max contract is over luckily.
Kat and Turner signed extensions
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:04 PM   #94
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EL, you're solid when it comes to this type of information. Regarding trade kickers, I've seen conflicting information.

1) Is the increase restricted to the maximum value for that player?

2) Who pays the kicker? Trading team or receiving? I've seen trading team pays, while new team has to account for higher figure to the cap.

Not to prolong the OPJ talk, just genuinely curious.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:57 PM   #95
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C free agents if we opt to pass on Jordan
Hortford - 32 years old and 6'10". Might be worth a look, but may take a 30mill player option and not even hit FA
Cousins - hasn't played yet, but we'll see. He will want to move on for more money, but Lakers have money and Lebron.
Gasol - may be looking to get out with the rocky lockerroom. JJJ is promising, but not as much as Doncic, but he'll be 34 next season.
Deandre Jordan - Top 2-3 rebounder. One of the worst defensive centers. Gonna be 31
Vujecic - Decent rebounder. Good scorer with good hands. Just really bad on defense like Jordan, but two years younger.
Whiteside - Will he ever leave MIA after having such a rocky tenure there? Will he walk away from 27 mill next year (player option). 13/13/2.5 guy who does everything we need from a center (defense, rebounding, and ability to punish cheaters)
Howard - ha! No one wants Superman
Brook Lopez - Powell jr. Rebounds worse than Powell, but slightly more effective shooting jumpers
Valanciunas - 7 foot bruiser who rebounds with the best. Solid team defender. May be able to be pried from Toronto if Kawhi leaves
Kanter - Improving defensively. Really strong rebounding. Smart player who wants out of NYK according to rumors. May be traded to a place that makes him happier mid-season though.

Lots of good choices out there if we don't want Jordan. It may also bring down the prices or make some players available. The era of the 10-10 center demanding a max contract is over luckily.
I don't know that I would go so far as "lots of good choices". It seems like DJ gets more bad than good credit from everyone on this board. He's #2 rebounding in the entire league. I'm not exactly ready to just let him walk and really don't think much of the FA options are much if any better.

Horford - no way is he leaving Boston with that kind of money on the table and quality team around him, AND in the East
Cousins - complete headcase and starting to break down physically?
Gasol - don't see him leaving Memphis
Vujevic - this is a good option
Whiteside - even more of a headcase than Cousins
Howard - ...... yeah, no.
Valancianus - another good option, but seems like to Toronto at least until Kawhaii leaves
Kanter - improving defensively? that's not saying much because he played zero defense while in OKC

So I see 2 good options that are younger than DJ who could possibly be lured away. Personally, I would like to see DJ stay and convince Randle to come here for the PF spot. Is this lineup possible? if so, it does sound pretty nice with the OPJ love right now ...

DJ
Randle
OPJ
Luka
DSJ
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:15 PM   #96
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YES.

Because we ARE going to sign someone like Anthony Davis... You guys need to get over your Nobody-Wants-To-Play-With-Old-Dirk PTSD and look at what we have here with Luka. The kid is special, and I can absolutely see big name FAs wanting to play with him, even more so if two of them can come here at once. Fair or not, the kid has more hype around him at 19 than Dirk ever had at any point in his career. Players are taking notice.

And it's not just FAs, it's trades too... Having extra cap space can allow us to eat bad contracts in pursuit of a stud or facilitate multi-team deals -- and having an expiring Harrison Barnes gives us a solid financial/talent asset to put on the table (like, does a HB/DSJ package net you a bona fide All-Star?)

You don't aim for guys like Otto Porter Jr, you settle -- and there's no need for us to settle right now.
Uh yea... duh. DIRK couldn't net big fish because his strong suit was jump shooting. Other than a handful of PGs what is the upside for other stars? Luka does it all but his passing and and IT factor is what sells the idea of guys playing with him. Big shot making helps a ton too.

A. Davis is a big target for every team who has the means to go after him but I think there's a solid argument for the Mavs being in the top 3, maybe top 2 destinations. Not just for him but for any big fish.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:55 PM   #97
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A. Davis is a big target for every team who has the means to go after him but I think there's a solid argument for the Mavs being in the top 3, maybe top 2 destinations. Not just for him but for any big fish.
If you're a 26-year-old Anthony Davis looking at the next 4 years of your career, do you choose a 35-year-old LeBron over a 21-year-old Luka Doncic? I know what CP3 and D12 chose when considering a 35-year-old Dirk...
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:12 PM   #98
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If you're a 26-year-old Anthony Davis looking at the next 4 years of your career, do you choose a 35-year-old LeBron over a 21-year-old Luka Doncic? I know what CP3 and D12 chose when considering a 35-year-old Dirk...
The Lakers can easily sign a third star after dumping Ball/Ingram (or send them to NO after Davis blackmailed them into a trade).

And yeah, a Big-3 in LA with Lebron and Davis...should be easy to find someone. And if its "just" Kemba Walker. And Davis just signed with Klutch Sports and had dinner with Lebron the other night.

Giannis in 2021, thats a more realistic pipedream. He was a big Luka fan even before draft night...maybe they wanna form the first Euro Superteam.

And even trading now Wes/Powell for Porter (a Barnes-Porter swap isnt happening anyway from our side), we would be fine for the 2020 cap wise because Barnes is gone from the payroll (2019 or 2020)

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Old 01-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #99
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I think "our" center targets next summer you can dial down on 2-3 names:

re-signing DJ (obv)

Vuje
(career season, little bit younger than DJ, stretch-5 etc), would be as example a better fit with Randle. At offense, Rick would love him, even with limited roll skills.

a wild card could be Thomas Bryant, if he keeps on playing like this and we dont want/cant sign DJ/Vuce.

Signing Randle as a smallball-5 (and no DJ/Vuce) is also an option, of course.

With re-signing DJ, there is of course this micro Durant pipedream (they are best buddies). Him selling Durant on Luka and the franchise.

Otherwise Randle should be one of the best and most realistic options:
Durant: lot of Knicks rumors
Porz: RFA, Knicks wont let him go
Kawhi: Woj pretty much say allready the Clippers are a done deal
Klay: stays...
Butler: dont think they wanna go down drama road
Cousins: same, a combination of the Rondo and Wes issues (character and achilles)
Harris: pretty much another Barnes
Middleton: Bucks blew a 1st to clear out salary, they are ready to PAY him
Bledsoe: Could be an option, if everything else fails. Future 3-Guard-Lineup.

So yeah, i think we are looking at something like DJ/Vuce+Randle. And depending on Barnes either more cap in 2019 or in 2020.

Last edited by sefant77; 01-04-2019 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:31 PM   #100
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We need a trade or a new coach
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:38 PM   #101
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Yeah I think Kawhi to LAC and AD to LAL May already be done deals. Celtics may trade for AD and try to sell him preemptively though
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:24 PM   #102
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Complain all you want about HB but he usually a reliable starter who led the team in ppg last season.
HB is a perfectly good player. He has completely EXCEEDED expectations. I really don't get the complaints about him.


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Wes is someone we can afford to trade since DFS has really stepped up this year. We won't be getting anything for him though with him being in his last year of contract and a high salary. Rumors have already said that MBT has tried to him but has not gotten any takers, so it's highly unlikely for him to go even with teams that are looking for salary relief.
Fan base always likes to assume you can get something of value for trading your trash. GM's are (mostly) not that dumb. Wes's value IS his contract (expiring), plus locker room presence. So, what we'd get back is a similar contract that isn't expiring...or another contract somebody also wants to dump.


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DJ is a great fit for this team and is #2 in RPG for the league. Yeah, his defense could be better but so could a lot of things on this young team.
Yep...Mavs FINALLY landed their big free agent. Trade him so soon? And...for what? Who would then play center?

DP is coming back down to earth in his stats but he's a little over priced for his next year $10.2 million salary.

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Next year's salary commitment is HB (25), DP (10.2), Luke (7.6), DSJ (4.4), DFS (1.9), Maxi (1.8) and Brunson (1.4).
Yes, Mavs have plenty of cap room, even without unloading Wes.

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We need quality vets and good coaching/mentoring for Luka and DSJ ... which is exactly what we have. Hopefully pick up a really nice fit with our salary cap next year along with players we keep, then we'll be sitting nicely.
Qaulity vets is soemthing the MBT has always been good at acquiring. Are we at that stage? Certainly one or two (Pat Beverly?)...but should that be the focus, or should it be on acquiring more young talent. Were DSJ going to be here I would agree its vets. If not...I think maybe we need to enhance the young core.

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For the first time in a really, really .... really ... long time, I hope no trades are done except for no-brainers and we stick with who we have.
I don't think sticking with what we have is an option. Lots of talk about moving WM, and DSJ. That's 40% of our starting lineup. DSJ talk is due to him not being a good fit, so that makes moving him a priority--although there isn't thought that he's a bust, just not the best fit here...indicating if we don't get good offers, we would probably be best keeping him. DSJ's numbers have actually improved this year, in terms of shooting percentages, etc. It's just the advanced analytics that show his fit on the team isn't ideal.

We also need to think about Barea's injury :-( , and what that means both for this year, and going forward. That might impact thinking on DSJ as well.
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:26 PM   #103
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Yeah I think Kawhi to LAC
Kawhi might be interesting. While LAC fits into what many thought he was looking for (increased media exposure and associate revenue)....Kawhi is definitely his own dude. The players that have been with Toronto seemed to like it...I wouldn't actually be surprised if he stays. Can be THE man in Toronto (certainly a very major city), or one of the many men in LA, including being in LeBron's shadow there.
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Old 01-18-2019, 03:35 PM   #104
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Trade speculation ideas for DSJ

Some of these looked pretty good to me. Would be delighted if they could get that level of return for DSJ.
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Old 01-18-2019, 03:42 PM   #105
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Trade speculation ideas for DSJ

Some of these looked pretty good to me. Would be delighted if they could get that level of return for DSJ.
Link-ception!
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Old 01-18-2019, 03:58 PM   #106
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Unless an offer just blows us away I donít see a reason to be in a rush to move Dennis. Even if heís 2-3 years away from being reliable offensively, that puts Luka at 22-23 yrs old.
Agree it's not a fire sale, but given that DSJ is simply not a good fit beside Luka, and he wants out (to where he can be the main ball handler)...what more reason were you looking to see? He and Luka play the same position, that's not going to change.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:47 PM   #107
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No Links. Just a hunch. Goran Dragic will opt out this off season and sign multi year with the Mavs.
Gonna go ahead and bump this in light of Fish writing about it today.

https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...gic-128827649/
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:50 AM   #108
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Gonna go ahead and bump this in light of Fish writing about it today.

https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...gic-128827649/
Not seeing how Dragic solves the Mavs rebounding/post defense problem....
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:25 PM   #109
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What would you guys think about Draymond Green? Here more before saying no.

Golden State would obviously like to keep KD and Klay. In order to do that they are going to need to dump a contract. There has also been obvious beef between KD and Draymond. So it makes sense that in order to talk KD into staying the would have to get rid of Draymond.

The Mavs have a $25 mil trade exception. Draymond makes $18.5 next season and is then UFA in 2020. Trading for him also allows the Mavs to resign Maxi and DFS and doesnít affect any long term plans. Worst case scenario with his expiring contract he becomes a trade chip at next yearís trade deadline.

As for on the court he brings some toughness, he can shoot, and he plays defense. Heís not a great rebounder but is solid.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:34 PM   #110
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Can't stand Draymond and think he is overrated as far as being floated by several other stars on his team. No thanks.

Edit: he also cannot shoot.

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Old 02-10-2019, 07:49 PM   #111
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Can't stand Draymond and think he is overrated as far as being floated by several other stars on his team. No thanks.

Edit: he also cannot shoot.
Agreed. Hard pass.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #112
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I think Draymond is a perfect fit for the Warriors team but on any other team, he's not worth the money.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:11 PM   #113
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So when exactly is the draft lottery?

If best case scenario happens and the Mavs end up with Ja Morant do you guys think they would consider trading him to Orlando in a pack deal Morant/THJ for Aaron Gordon? Would Orlando consider that?

Or from the Mavs perspective would they consider Ja Morant for Bamba?


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Old 05-09-2019, 08:55 PM   #114
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So when exactly is the draft lottery?

If best case scenario happens and the Mavs end up with Ja Morant do you guys think they would consider trading him to Orlando in a pack deal Morant/THJ for Aaron Gordon? Would Orlando consider that?

Or from the Mavs perspective would they consider Ja Morant for Bamba?


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I think Iíd rather have Isaac over Bamba. I think you could get something better than either of those trades though.
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