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Old 11-11-2017, 11:46 PM   #1
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Default Trust the Process - Mavs Edition

I think its time for a general tank/rebuilding thread.

Tankathons, wet pants after watching college games, roster speculations, FA dreams etc.

Well, looks like our process is for sure one player down. Instead of DSJ/Barnes/Noel + 2018 pick our core went down to two players + 2018 pick

So lets begin:

Ayton
https://youtu.be/fBAEk7A8XNA

Bagley
https://youtu.be/ZoQKttYTPMU

Doncic
https://youtu.be/Vfq4-iVuiAE

Last edited by sefant77; 11-11-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:23 AM   #2
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DSJ/Ayton is a cheap, young, high-upside core that addresses the two most difficult/important positions to fill in this league... And they both play their position the *right* way, which would make it a lot easier to build around them (unlike trying to build around an oddity like Dirk, which took a very special blend to get right).

I'm fine with keeping Barnes as our eventual Robin, love Yogi as a spark off the bench, wouldn't mind Mejri sticking around as our backup center, and want to see what we have in Curry, as well as younger guys like Kleber, DFS, Motely, Clavell, etc.

Obviously, Dirk/Barea/Harris aren't in the longterm plans, but all three have been excellent player-coaches this season, so I'm fine with them sticking around year-to-year on the cheap until our younger guys blossom -- just not at the expense of upside youth. I have a feeling Dirk retires after this year anyway. I could see Devin getting re-signed if Curry walks and Rick thinks he'll be of value to Smith Jr.'s development, otherwise we let him move on. Same with Barea after next year.

Wes is fine -- he's overpaid, but that doesn't matter right now since we're not really players in the FA market... We'll either trade him or let him walk when he expires. He's not in the longterm plans.

Powell is straight-garbage, and hopefully Rick is just playing him a bunch to try to increase his trade value (which isn't working), but I get the feeling it's more about trying to get him to grow into his paycheck... Easily my least-favorite player to watch on this team, but we're stuck with him for now.

Honestly, I'm fine with trading anyone on this roster aside from Dennis Smith Jr. -- I believe our rebuild plans changed massively when we landed him, and I think a guy like Ayton would be the perfect fit for our current course (although you could make Porter, Doncic, Bamba, etc. work too)... Stack picks, stack assets to trade for picks, build from within, then slaughter the FA market in a couple years when we have a ton of cap space to surround our blossoming talent.

Boom, back in the playoffs. Trust the process.
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:18 AM   #3
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...e-No-1-In-2017

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ďAny one of them in the top four next year would have gone first in this yearís draft,Ē one longtime NBA scout told The Undefeated. ďThatís not a knock on this yearís draft, nor is it saying it wasnít good. It had a lot of depth in it, more than next year will. There is no one in this yearís draft that could be a franchise player, but there is a couple in next yearís draft.Ē
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77 View Post
I think its time for a general tank/rebuilding thread.

Tankathons, wet pants after watching college games, roster speculations, FA dreams etc.

Well, looks like our process is for sure one player down. Instead of DSJ/Barnes/Noel + 2018 pick our core went down to two players + 2018 pick

So lets begin:

Ayton
https://youtu.be/fBAEk7A8XNA

Bagley
https://youtu.be/ZoQKttYTPMU

Doncic
https://youtu.be/Vfq4-iVuiAE
As of right now Luka Doncic would have to be the guy (again, as of right now). Heís the most skilled of the top 5 guys. He already has an NBA body and has the highest basketball IQ. Heís a playmaker that is already playing against grown men. Heís the 1st or 2nd best player on the best team in Europe. Drafting him would also allow the Mavs to have two playmakers on the floor at the same time without having to go small. Luka is an excellent ball handler and can play the 1-3. He would also take a ton of pressure off of Dennis.

Ayton is very intriguing though. Iíve seen all the high school videos of him but I needed to see him to the same things against college level talent. Well heís had a couple games so far and he looks amazing. Heís clearly a natural rebounder. He doesnít get pushed around and shows tons of energy and aggressiveness in the paint. If he continues to play the way he has he would HAVE to be the top pick this year.

Marvin Bagley is also very intriguing. Heís a true PF that plays strong in the paint. He plays solid defense and is also a natural rebounder. He also has a good low post game already. With that said he also can stretch the floor.

After those 3 there is a drop off. Porter looks great on offense but is not a natural rebounder and tends to look passive in the paint, especially on defense. He also needs to get stronger. He gets pushed around a lot.

I canít really say a whole lot on Mohamed Bamba because I havenít seen enough of him. All I know is that heís a legit 7 footer with they largest wing span in NBA draft history.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:54 AM   #5
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Do not sleep on Marvin Bagley...he's an absolute necessary part of any discussion regarding the NBA draft. For me, it goes Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, and Doncic. All 5 of those guys should be franchise altering.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:57 AM   #6
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Also, extremely impressed with Miles Bridges obviously because of his play last year, but this article shows more to it all.

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...on-nba-lottery

He could replace Doncic in my top five pending him showing improvement on his stellar frosh season at MSU. But he is sure fire top 10 at the least, in my opinion.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:36 AM   #7
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The most important thing is being in the top 5. This is a 5-deep draft, we gotta be in it this year, no more "let's win some meaningless games" bs like last season. Fingers crossed.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:44 AM   #8
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Was thinking Porter but watched Ayton's debut highlights for Arizona and I'm picking him number one. Yes center is a dying breed but this dude is a athletic freak. Runs the court well, Dwight Howard like body, and is showing some skill very early on. We'll see how this college season plays out but holy crap this dude looks like a franchise piece.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick View Post
The most important thing is being in the top 5. This is a 5-deep draft, we gotta be in it this year, no more "let's win some meaningless games" bs like last season. Fingers crossed.
Exactly. I'm hoping top 3 myself. Cant go wrong with Bagley, Porter, or Ayton from early looks.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:12 AM   #10
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Here's my top picks for the Mavs at the moment, opinions subject to change over the season:

1) DeAndre Ayton
2) Michael Porter Jr.
3) Marvin Bagley
4) Luka Doncic
5) Mohamed Bamba

I doubt we land anywhere outside the top-5, even if the lottery balls conspire against us... I actually think Doncic is the most bust-proof, but would rather have a big than a guard to add to our core with DSJ. Although I'm still taking him over Bamba right now because BPA still wins out over "need" -- I just think Ayton/Porter/Bagley have as much upside (if not more) as Doncic... Bamba is almost all potential at this point, which means he could completely fall out of my top-5, so I'm also keeping a close eye on Jaren Jackson Jr., Miles Bridges, Wendell Carter, and Robert Williams.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:38 AM   #11
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Damn....have to agree with every response so far as all of you make great points....especially UD's first response.

Outstanding input guys!!!!

My list is a little different from UD's and saclare's though at least at this point:

1. Ayton
2. Bagley
3. Porter
4. Doncic
5. Bamba

We really need to get a thread started on each of these guys (and maybe a few others) to discuss their progress up to the draft.

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Old 11-12-2017, 12:38 PM   #12
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I understand why some of you want to lose or tank. I would be ok with losing if we could get one if the easiest things to control in order. Rick has to play these guys who dont typically get minutes...like Salah who busts his ass and brings energy and defense. Losing and being a pushover is cancer in the team.

Bring back Motley and let him play. Give minutes to Noel and Salah. Our record is ridiculous and we have nothing to lose except not knowing what they can do before we have to make decisions on them. I have no concern that playing them may lower their value.

If we are gonna lose ok fine, let's do it learning and playing younger, more energetic, and potential players. Not with overloading minutes on smaller older guys. Jj devin mess and dirk can have some minutes but the rotations now are garbage and it's doing more harm than good going forward.

I want to see some trades this season. Not handcuffing the future with a wild swing for the playoffs type moves but we desperately need sizeable guard and wing. Donnie and Mark need to take the small ball option away from Rick. Rick trusts the vets and it's he isn't going to be in a hurry to change this mentality either. Moving a few vets for some potential or is a move I am down for this season regardless of how many games we are losing
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Here's my top picks for the Mavs at the moment, opinions subject to change over the season:

1) DeAndre Ayton
2) Michael Porter Jr.
3) Marvin Bagley
4) Luka Doncic
5) Mohamed Bamba

I doubt we land anywhere outside the top-5, even if the lottery balls conspire against us... I actually think Doncic is the most bust-proof, but would rather have a big than a guard to add to our core with DSJ. Although I'm still taking him over Bamba right now because BPA still wins out over "need" -- I just think Ayton/Porter/Bagley have as much upside (if not more) as Doncic... Bamba is almost all potential at this point, which means he could completely fall out of my top-5, so I'm also keeping a close eye on Jaren Jackson Jr., Miles Bridges, Wendell Carter, and Robert Williams.
I'd be happy with any of those 5.
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SMC0007 View Post
I understand why some of you want to lose or tank. I would be ok with losing if we could get one if the easiest things to control in order. Rick has to play these guys who dont typically get minutes...like Salah who busts his ass and brings energy and defense. Losing and being a pushover is cancer in the team.

Bring back Motley and let him play. Give minutes to Noel and Salah. Our record is ridiculous and we have nothing to lose except not knowing what they can do before we have to make decisions on them. I have no concern that playing them may lower their value.

If we are gonna lose ok fine, let's do it learning and playing younger, more energetic, and potential players. Not with overloading minutes on smaller older guys. Jj devin mess and dirk can have some minutes but the rotations now are garbage and it's doing more harm than good going forward.

I want to see some trades this season. Not handcuffing the future with a wild swing for the playoffs type moves but we desperately need sizeable guard and wing. Donnie and Mark need to take the small ball option away from Rick. Rick trusts the vets and it's he isn't going to be in a hurry to change this mentality either. Moving a few vets for some potential or is a move I am down for this season regardless of how many games we are losing
Talent trumps everything in this league. I'm not concerned, one losing season will not change DSJ's mental approach. High draft picks usually lose a lot of games early into their careers. We need another franchise changing talent next to him, and then we are set, you can build around those two, and hopefully you get a lot more out of Barnes as the third option going forward.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:10 PM   #15
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Talent trumps everything in this league. I'm not concerned, one losing season will not change DSJ's mental approach. High draft picks usually lose a lot of games early into their careers.
Yeah, I think this season has been harder on Dirk than Dennis... DSJ seems to be a pretty chill dude, he just internalizes the losses, studies the tape, and comes back stronger. Dirk, on the other hand, is shooting for one last hurrah before riding off into the sunset -- it's not going well.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick View Post
Talent trumps everything in this league. I'm not concerned, one losing season will not change DSJ's mental approach. High draft picks usually lose a lot of games early into their careers. We need another franchise changing talent next to him, and then we are set, you can build around those two, and hopefully you get a lot more out of Barnes as the third option going forward.
One losing season? We lost last year and even with a top 5 pick we should expect another couple losing seasons in a complete rebuild. I don't see a rebuild that doesn't involve making a few trades and hitting on that front too.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:39 PM   #17
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One losing season? We lost last year and even with a top 5 pick we should expect another couple losing seasons in a complete rebuild. I don't see a rebuild that doesn't involve making a few trades and hitting on that front too.
Yeah this is going to be a few years of being bad. We should've taken this approach years ago. We didn't. But unless we pick up some free agents....we are in this one for the long haul.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:56 PM   #18
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Imma leave this here...

https://twitter.com/Rrlewis2/status/929917258385776641
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:45 AM   #19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMJemil-lQ

Really nice looking form on his shot
swishing his FT's for the most part
range to 3pt and beyond though he didn't make any in this clip
the ridiculous wingspan was on display - he basically took 1 step and dunked from outside the semi-circle under the hoop.
obviously very weak competition but can see the skill/potential

So far Ayton looks more advanced as a big man. he seems to really vacuum up rebounds with authority and at this point looks stronger.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:56 AM   #20
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Good gosh those two clips tweeted below the obviously great stats. That kid is a beast.

This draft has serious potential...

Bamba had a quiet opener, but they're all going to be like this for the first week or two basically playing exhibition type games. Kid is long and a defensive force, I'll be watching his offensive skills develop.

I do think center is the best fit/need pick when approaching this draft. But we will have to see if the wings make that a tough call. I'm all for going into next season with DSJ/Barnes/Ayton though. Great start to a rebuild.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:03 AM   #21
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Yeah, pretty sure Ayton is going to be the big prize. Be so pissed if some team like the Lakers got him. I generally only like to compare players in generalities, but dammnnnn does he look like David Robinson. Maybe a smidge slower than David, but otherwise, wow. Those highlights of him are the best thing about being a Mavs fan right about now outside of Dennis Smith jr.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:07 AM   #22
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Lakers dont have their pick. Fun fact they blew it away in the famous Steve Nash trade *rofl*

#1 is either Cavs via the Nets or of course Boston via Lakers...we all know it

All i hope is for a Top-4 pick. Because that will be allready pretty tough. Kings/Suns/Hawks/Nets/Lakers/Bulls all suck ass. We could easily end up with "just" the 7th worst record...

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Old 11-13-2017, 11:27 AM   #23
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Lakers dont have their pick. Fun fact they blew it away in the famous Steve Nash trade *rofl*.
Wow, that's right, the pick is unprotected this year.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:29 AM   #24
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If 2-4 the Sixers keep the Lakers pick, otherwise it goes to the Celtics.

That Lakers pick is crazy. Lakers gave it up in the Nash trade, then Suns traded it in the retarded Brandon Knight trade...

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Old 11-13-2017, 11:59 AM   #25
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Any good wings we might be able to pick up with our early 2nd rounder?

I see on Tankathon that Allonzo Trier is mocked at 30 going to Boston. he certainly had a lot of points the first 2 games.

Definitely ball-hoggety and tons of just open looks.
however, looks to be very athletic with good enough handles to get to the rack.
doesn't appear to be much of a passer.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:32 PM   #26
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Any good wings we might be able to pick up with our early 2nd rounder?

I see on Tankathon that Allonzo Trier is mocked at 30 going to Boston. he certainly had a lot of points the first 2 games.

Definitely ball-hoggety and tons of just open looks.
however, looks to be very athletic with good enough handles to get to the rack.
doesn't appear to be much of a passer.
There's a handful of good wings, but it's a bit premature. The mock drafts always have some guys going in the first who will be second rounders or even undrafted and guys who are predicted to go second that will be firsts.

Honestly, if we don't win the lottery, I could see us picking up Doncic and then pursuing a center in the second round or free agency. Dude is so smooth for only 18. It's incredible how talented and smooth he is. Having Doncic at 18 and Smith at 20 would be a crazy young core of guys who are way smoother than their age should suggest.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:48 PM   #27
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Any good wings we might be able to pick up with our early 2nd rounder?
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There's a handful of good wings, but it's a bit premature.
Yeah, it's way too early to have any idea about second-rounders... Really, anything outside the top 5-10 is pretty much just a dart throw at this point.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:51 PM   #28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMJemil-lQ

Really nice looking form on his shot
swishing his FT's for the most part
range to 3pt and beyond though he didn't make any in this clip
the ridiculous wingspan was on display - he basically took 1 step and dunked from outside the semi-circle under the hoop.
obviously very weak competition but can see the skill/potential
Yeah, Bamba is one of my favorites if we pick outside the top 4, the guy just has a ridiculous wingspan... Not as much elite potential as Ayton/Porter/Bagley/Doncic, but he'll be a starting center in this league, possibly even better than Noel. The one thing I keep hearing about the kid that can't be gleaned from the video you posted is that he has an excellent attitude/work ethic -- very much a Rick Carlisle guy.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:57 PM   #29
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Just wanted to applaud the thread title.



Carry on.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:04 PM   #30
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The one thing I keep hearing about the kid that can't be gleaned from the video you posted is that he has an excellent attitude/work ethic -- very much a Rick Carlisle guy.
And thats a little bit of a red flag with Ayton...i read some questionsmarks about his desire for the game etc. I guess he has a small Andre Bynum flame out factor...
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:23 PM   #31
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And thats a little bit of a red flag with Ayton...i read some questionsmarks about his desire for the game etc. I guess he has a small Andre Bynum flame out factor...
Meh, I wouldn't put too much stock into "negative work ethic" reports with this age group... I remember hearing the same thing about Dennis, but he and Carlisle seem to have an excellent working relationship so far.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:36 PM   #32
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There's a handful of good wings, but it's a bit premature. The mock drafts always have some guys going in the first who will be second rounders or even undrafted and guys who are predicted to go second that will be firsts.

Honestly, if we don't win the lottery, I could see us picking up Doncic and then pursuing a center in the second round or free agency. Dude is so smooth for only 18. It's incredible how talented and smooth he is. Having Doncic at 18 and Smith at 20 would be a crazy young core of guys who are way smoother than their age should suggest.
The only thing that holds me back from Doncic is him seemingly needing the ball in his hands to be effective. He looks like a very good passer/playmaker, and I think it might be more wise to go with a big if possible. However, if they rate Doncic as a higher ceiling than Dennis, then you gotta take him.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:41 PM   #33
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The only thing that holds me back from Doncic is him seemingly needing the ball in his hands to be effective. He looks like a very good passer/playmaker, and I think it might be more wise to go with a big if possible. However, if they rate Doncic as a higher ceiling than Dennis, then you gotta take him.
Yeah it's a bit of a concern, but LeBron/Kyrie both needed the ball and they both have a 'ship. Wade/LeBron are the same.

Heck, Thompson/Curry are both similar, although they're also amazing shooters from the pass.

Those pairings represent the 6 of the 7 championships since Mavs won.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:45 PM   #34
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The only thing that holds me back from Doncic is him seemingly needing the ball in his hands to be effective. He looks like a very good passer/playmaker, and I think it might be more wise to go with a big if possible. However, if they rate Doncic as a higher ceiling than Dennis, then you gotta take him.
Yeah, I'm all about getting a big in this draft, but if we ended up with Doncic it would give us one of the most elite backcourts of the future. Maybe go after Bol Bol (Manute Bol's son) in 2019 if we can get another high pick... Although 2019 looks to be stacked with wings (Zion!), so this is really the year to grab a big.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:57 PM   #35
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The only thing that holds me back from Doncic is him seemingly needing the ball in his hands to be effective. He looks like a very good passer/playmaker, and I think it might be more wise to go with a big if possible. However, if they rate Doncic as a higher ceiling than Dennis, then you gotta take him.
I've read that Doncic is also a little slow and that could hold him back from being a star at the NBA level. Dude is smooth though and looks to be the real deal.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:12 PM   #36
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Yeah lateral quickness is a concern...regarding the elite NBA opponents. But the kid is just sick. Ayton is man among boys and destroys them. He was a kid among men and destroyed them. With 16 in the best league in europe, with 18 best player on Real. At the eurocup beat other national teams single handed etc

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Old 11-13-2017, 04:10 PM   #37
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Meh, I wouldn't put too much stock into "negative work ethic" reports with this age group... I remember hearing the same thing about Dennis, but he and Carlisle seem to have an excellent working relationship so far.
I thought with DSJ he lived in the gym and was breathing basketball. It was his bad body language and poor effort when the team was awful at the end of the season. Not saying either is great but I thought I read DSJ was a gym rat which is very different if that's the case.

And yeah the guys after the top x number that is always head and shoulders above the rest always changes. I remember last year Bacon was ranked in the top 15 at the start of the year and obviously by the end was considered late 1st early 2nd. Kennard was an early 2nd and ended up a lotto pick.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:25 PM   #38
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Still looking for what people see in Doncic being a top 5 pick
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:30 PM   #39
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Anyone have a solid draft primer on Doncic? Looking for good game play video.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:02 PM   #40
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Top 5 pick we cant lose.
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