Rate the offseason - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 07-22-2019, 11:02 AM

Subtractions
Dirk Nowitzki
Trey Burke
Devin Harris
Kostas Atetokounmpo (2W)

Retentions
Kristaps Porzingis (5 years, 158mill)
Ryan Broekhoff (1 year, 1.4mill)
Dorian Finney-Smith (3 years, 12 mill)
Maxi Kleber (4 years, 35 mill)
Dwight Powell (3 years, 33 mill)

Additions
Boban Marjonovic (2 years, 7 mill)
Seth Curry (4 years, 32 mill)
Delon Wright (3years, 29 mill)

BPo001 · 07-22-2019, 11:35 AM

I voted for a B. We re-signed a few guys, and added a few solid players to add to the rotation, and all signed for reasonable contracts. I think we will be active around the trade deadline.

Underdog · 07-22-2019, 11:54 AM

No bad contracts, but no real difference-makers — risked nothing, gained nothing... And we left $15m of cap space on the table, which I’ve never seen a team that planned on going over the cap do before. We were set up to make a splash, but instead of playing to win, we played not to lose. That’s a recipe for mediocrity.

C

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-22-2019, 12:47 PM

C- and that's being kind.

Listen, everything depends on KP. All of the eggs were put into the basket of those knees which puts enormous pressure on him and this season. That's why not getting another high tiered guy mattered regardless of fit.

There is just no excuse to keep losing though. If we have another 30 win season, then the FO better have a damn shake up at the very least.

Jack.Kerr · 07-22-2019, 12:56 PM

D+/C-

Retentions were an A.

Acquisitions were an abject F. Okay, an F+ since they didn't take on any awful contracts.

Male30Dan · 07-22-2019, 01:00 PM

I voted C as well, but it's very, very kind I think. It's really more from the potential improvements I see from Luka (weight/conditioning, free throws, 3pt, turnovers reduced, etc) and from KP being added (who was already here and was going to be here this year) more so than what we did bringing other guys in after free agency started. I also, despite wanting other Centers, am hopeful Powell can run with this opportunity given he's not looking over his shoulder. Here's hoping I'm pleasantly surprised though and B or better is our reality.

dirt_dobber · 07-22-2019, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

I voted C as well, but it's very, very kind I think. It's really more from the potential improvements I see from Luka (weight/conditioning, free throws, 3pt, turnovers reduced, etc) and from KP being added (who was already here and was going to be here this year) more so than what we did bringing other guys in after free agency started. I also, despite wanting other Centers, am hopeful Powell can run with this opportunity given he's not looking over his shoulder. Here's hoping I'm pleasantly surprised though and B or better is our reality.

nice take and I agree.
We potentially improved our team 3 point percentage by the guys we added. We also got a nice starting wing with a quality backup in Seth. I think we might have stashed Maxi a little bit at the end of last season so that other teams would not go after him.

tap2390 · 07-22-2019, 01:31 PM

B-

Assuming that none of the big names were seriously considering Dallas, we still missed out on using our cap space to get an asset. For a team without much draft capital over the following years that's a rookie mistake.

I think we misread the market, but it was a harmless error. We smartly didn't overpay someone injury prone or not truly worth a max contract, which shows we're learning from past mistakes. I mean, were you really ready to give Malcolm Brogdon $21 million a year and give the Pacers a first round pick considering he's only played in about 75% of his team's games during his career?

Wright and Curry were solid additions. Maxi, Broekhoff, DFS, Powell, and JJB were all solid retentions at a good price given the fast-moving market. Most importantly, getting Porzingis to commit shows a long-term vision for the Mavs we've all been waiting for. Minor ding for giving him a player option at the back end of the contract, but if that's the cost of building good rapport so be it. Porzingis is known to have a good work ethic, and his promise alone is well worth the cost.

SMC0007 · 07-22-2019, 02:16 PM

Without seeing the team play a game, I grade it a C-. If we get the best versions of Delon, DP and KP, I think the grade could max out at a B. I don't think grade A was available to us.

There were bigs like Dedmon, Kanter, Lopez, Perhaps Looney or Davis that were mostly available and would have made us better and given us more depth but it didn't happen. That would have bumped the grade up as well.

I think Allan Williams who is a good rebounder and hustles and maybe Greg Monroe could help a bit if we wanted to rummage in the scrap heap.

purplefrog · 07-22-2019, 02:47 PM

C+

For many years, I was discouraged because the MBT refused to re-sign their core team. Specifically, the concern was continually reshuffling the deck and hoping something good would happen. Re-signing DFS, Maxi, and even Powell are positive steps. But, there were options out there to improve team rebounding and it seems there was no interest. Adding Ed Davis, for example,(he was given $10M over two years) seemed to me like a bargain. Who knows what was going on behind closed doors, but I think it leaves most Mavs fans befuddled as to why the salary cap wasn't used more strategically. The new Mavs are all very interesting and will likely make noticeable contributions but I can't help but feel the MBT did not seize the opportunity they had this offseason to improve an obvious area of weakness (i.e. team rebounding).

ChileanMavsFan · 07-22-2019, 04:27 PM

C for me.

Can't grade it higher when we failed in Plan A (Kemba or another star) and then in Plan B as well (adding a few solid starters like Danny Green, Pat Beverly or others that would have been a good fit next to Luka/KP and made us a playoff contender). Not being able to use all the cap space we opened up after trading Harrison Barnes in one of the deepest free agency classes of recent years it's disappointing.

G-Man · 07-22-2019, 05:12 PM

C

Although in reality I'd prefer an incomplete, but that is a chicken's way out, so C it is.

The grade could go much higher if KP and Luka meld the way we hope. The reason I don't downgrade the off season more is that I am glad we did not get a 3rd star who might interfere with Luka's development. This needs to be Luka's team. I see him as a Magic Johnson type talent, who should be at the center of the offense at all times, and I just don't see a lot of guys who make over $20 million a year giving up leadership to a 20 year old kid. So I'm cool with giving this pair a year to find their groove, then let the Mavs find the guy who really fits with them.

You'll note that almost all the players we missed on chose to go to better teams. I'm hoping next year, we will be one of those better teams, with a huge upside, like the Nets and Clips were this off season. If that becomes the case, then this year becomes a solid B. They get a C for not screwing anything up.

Underdog · 07-22-2019, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

You'll note that almost all the players we missed on chose to go to better teams. I'm hoping next year, we will be one of those better teams, with a huge upside, like the Nets and Clips were this off season.

Problem with next summer is that we'll be over the cap and the FA market is weak... We punted until 2021.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-22-2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Problem with next summer is that we'll be over the cap and the FA market is weak... We punted until 2021.

Which is why this FA mattered so much. If the Mavs are still bad in the next two seasons, then 2021 will just be a repeat of this past summer. FAs don't like going to losing teams.

SMC0007 · 07-22-2019, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

C

Although in reality I'd prefer an incomplete, but that is a chicken's way out, so C it is.

The grade could go much higher if KP and Luka meld the way we hope. The reason I don't downgrade the off season more is that I am glad we did not get a 3rd star who might interfere with Luka's development. This needs to be Luka's team. I see him as a Magic Johnson type talent, who should be at the center of the offense at all times, and I just don't see a lot of guys who make over $20 million a year giving up leadership to a 20 year old kid. So I'm cool with giving this pair a year to find their groove, then let the Mavs find the guy who really fits with them.

You'll note that almost all the players we missed on chose to go to better teams. I'm hoping next year, we will be one of those better teams, with a huge upside, like the Nets and Clips were this off season. If that becomes the case, then this year becomes a solid B. They get a C for not screwing anything up.

Guys who play off the ball or rely on the facilitator want to play with Luka. But they are going to choose teams closer to contention at this point. Some will even choose "friends" over Luka and KP. Our stars need to recruit and also prove they are what they look to be on paper.

EricaLubarsky · 07-22-2019, 08:03 PM

We were basically over the cap this offseason too with so many contracts expiring and KP basically needing a paycheck.

turin · 07-22-2019, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Without seeing the team play a game, I grade it a C-. If we get the best versions of Delon, DP and KP, I think the grade could max out at a B. I don't think grade A was available to us.

There were bigs like Dedmon, Kanter, Lopez, Perhaps Looney or Davis that were mostly available and would have made us better and given us more depth but it didn't happen. That would have bumped the grade up as well.

I think Allan Williams who is a good rebounder and hustles and maybe Greg Monroe could help a bit if we wanted to rummage in the scrap heap.

same here, C-

I really wanted to give the Mavs a D for leaving $15m to just vanish in thin air. WTH? What's done is done. I'm ready for the preseason to begin.

NeedlesKane · 07-22-2019, 09:02 PM

I voted a C but honestly feel like we could have done far worse. We're going to be a playoff team this year, and I don't think we're going to be swept in the first round either. Mark my words!

rimrocker · 07-23-2019, 05:12 AM

Solid B

Our off season began the day we traded 3 starters for a 23yo superstar as far as I'm concerned. Then we re-signed him in the summer.
We also signed, at one hell of a bargain, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league who happens to be in his prime.
Then we signed a nice complementary piece to play with Luka in the backcourt on a decent deal who happens to be in his prime as well.

It's refreshing for me to see our top 9 or so players all age 28 and younger.

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

I voted a C but honestly feel like we could have done far worse. We're going to be a playoff team this year, and I don't think we're going to be swept in the first round either. Mark my words!

I like this attitude. My MFFL spirit is fueled by this.

We could make a little noise IF:

DP is what he was or better to finish last season.
KP is what he has been previous to the injury.
Luka is what he was plus hitting free throws.
We get the best version of Delon.
RC dials in rotations.

Murphy3 · 07-23-2019, 10:42 AM

Definitely not a B... I would go with D+..possibly C-. I guess they get credit for not signing anyone to a terrible contract, but that's really about it. Yeah, they had a couple of nice acquisitions, but that clearly wasn't the plan with the Mavs trades during the season.. Their plan wasn't to add a couple of niceish pieces. With a mediocre group of free agents next year, you have to hope that the Mavs can either pick someone up via trade when a team falls out of contention or can get it right in 2021.

Underdog · 07-23-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which is why this FA mattered so much. If the Mavs are still bad in the next two seasons, then 2021 will just be a repeat of this past summer. FAs don't like going to losing teams.

$30m in cap space with 200 free agents on the market and all we came away with were a few role players while leaving $15m on the table... Everyone is patting themselves on the back for not taking on bad contracts, but if Anthony Davis and Paul George have proved anything, it’s that if you’re not in the mix for a championship, then your stars could be looking to force a trade long before their contracts expire. If we don’t string together a couple of good seasons here, then what’s to stop Luka or KP from forcing us to trade them in 2021 when a bunch of other superstars are shuffling around the league? We clearly blew our best chance to prevent that, so now we’re pinning our hopes on development and loyalty, as if we’ve got two Dirk Nowitzkis in Luka and Kristaps... If we turn in a couple of mediocre seasons, then this thing could go south quick like it did for OKC — these modern NBA superstars have no patience for losing.

rimrocker · 07-23-2019, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Their plan wasn't to add a couple of niceish pieces. .

I'm just curious what you would have done if you were in Donnie's shoes to land something other than "niceish" pieces.

Not necessarily trying to spark a debate, but curious to read creative ideas by you and any others on what he could have realistically done better.

In other words, in specifics, what would have constituted an A grade?

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'm just curious what you would have done if you were in Donnie's shoes to land something other than "niceish" pieces.

Not necessarily trying to spark a debate, but curious to read creative ideas by you and any others on what he could have realistically done better.

In other words, in specifics, what would have constituted an A grade?

There has been so many ideas from posters about guys we could have had to strengthen our weakness that were definitely affordable. That said, I'm not sure an A grade was attainable for us.

EricaLubarsky · 07-23-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

$30m in cap space with 200 free agents on the market and all we came away with were a few role players while leaving $15m on the table... Everyone is patting themselves on the back for not taking on bad contracts, but if Anthony Davis and Paul George have proved anything, it’s that if you’re not in the mix for a championship, then your stars could be looking to force a trade long before their contracts expire. If we don’t string together a couple of good seasons here, then what’s to stop Luka or KP from forcing us to trade them in 2021 when a bunch of other superstars are shuffling around the league? We clearly blew our best chance to prevent that, so now we’re pinning our hopes on development and loyalty, as if we’ve got two Dirk Nowitzkis in Luka and Kristaps... If we turn in a couple of mediocre seasons, then this thing could go south quick like it did for OKC — these modern NBA superstars have no patience for losing.

28 mill and almost no one under contract

Plus if we used the entire 28 mill and resigned guys like KP, we could have pushed over the tax line. Not exactly a smart move to kick off repeat tax paying on a team that hasn’t even proven it can nab an 8th seed.

Plus we needed a lot of positions filled. We spend big for a semi-star, we fill the rest of the roster with minimum deals. I’m not sure that’s smart either.

Superstars weren’t coming. Semi-stars were getting max money and would have destroyed our flexibility without necessarily getting us to the playoffs.

We definitely could have done better, but I still don’t see the argument that we could have done a lot better.

rimrocker · 07-23-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm not sure an A grade was attainable for us.

Yeah, and that is basically what I was alluding to.
Assuming signing Kawhi or Durant together with KP would have been an A+ and signing nobody and not trading for KP would have been F-, I don't see where the FO did that bad.

I'd much rather have these young guys with some upside on tradable contracts than sign guys like Green or Horford to ridiculous deals that we'd be stuck with.

texasbball · 07-23-2019, 12:22 PM

Signed possible superstar to long term contract - check. Obtained starting guard in Delon Wright - check. Got great 3 point shooter in Curry - check. Obtained interesting though limited back up center - check. Reality bites sometimes. And they never mentioned a functional starting center as a goal. They improved the team, locked down a VIP, and addressed one starter spot. They also missed on what were some better opportunities, at least to me and others, by, according to their own admission, not even showing interest. A b- to b for me. But FO PR? F.

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Yeah, and that is basically what I was alluding to.
Assuming signing Kawhi or Durant together with KP would have been an A+ and signing nobody and not trading for KP would have been F-, I don't see where the FO did that bad.

I'd much rather have these young guys with some upside on tradable contracts than sign guys like Green or Horford to ridiculous deals that we'd be stuck with.

Absolutely. We were never in the A grade race to begin with.

Looking back on the championship we had, it was the journey that we had from 2003 or so to 2011 that made it so sweet. Seeing guys that were worthy and deserving like Kidd, Marion, Dirk, JET even Chandler get a ring made the ride so much better. I would rather not have all the heartache to get back there, but I really enjoy the journey that it will take and look forward to the climb and watching the team get closer to contention.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2019, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Absolutely. We were never in the A grade race to begin with.

Looking back on the championship we had, it was the journey that we had from 2003 or so to 2011 that made it so sweet. Seeing guys that were worthy and deserving like Kidd, Marion, Dirk, JET even Chandler get a ring made the ride so much better. I would rather not have all the heartache to get back there, but I really enjoy the journey that it will take and look forward to the climb and watching the team get closer to contention.

We absolutely were in the Kemba Walker race until Horford opted out. Most legit reporters had us listed in the top three teams to get him with Charlotte and Boston being the other two.

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We absolutely were in the Kemba Walker race until Horford opted out. Most legit reporters had us listed in the top three teams to get him with Charlotte and Boston being the other two.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't personally rate Kemba an A for us anyway.

EricaLubarsky · 07-23-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Perhaps, but I wouldn't personally rate Kemba an A for us anyway.

Kemba at max is NOT an A move.

Not a perfect complementary piece to Luka and KP. Aging. Unremarkable defense and rebounding and more than anything he puts you in the tax. Repeat tax paying for a good but not perfect fit is not A material

You get Wright shooting 3s at a good rate (35%+) and he’s literally perfect for our back court next to Luka and he has shot 40% at times (November was 46% last year)

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2019, 04:06 PM

Walker puts you in the top 4 teams in the West next season regardless of anything else. I agree the long term fit isn't there, but short term it would pay big dividends. The fact that the FO tried so hard to get him speaks volumes to that. That's at the very least an A- move.

Underdog · 07-23-2019, 04:16 PM

If the scraps we put together warrant a B from some of you, then Kemba Walker at any price is an easy A.

FreshJive · 07-23-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If the scraps we put together warrant a B from some of you, then Kemba Walker at any price is an easy A.

So much this. Couldn’t you still get Boban and Curry? So basically Kemba vs Delon.

ChileanMavsFan · 07-23-2019, 04:46 PM

I value fit and chemistry with Luka/KP a lot, but at the end of the day in order to win games we need more talent, plain and simple. It's a star driven league. So even though Kemba might not have been the perfect fit on paper, he is a proven star who is a great playmaker, very efficient (even in a lousy Hornets team) and he seems to be very unselfish, so I think Carlisle and KP/Luka would have made it work. And if it doesn't work out, star players like Walker (29 years old) are relatively easy to trade.

I would have given an A to this off-season if we had signed him together with KP.

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Walker puts you in the top 4 teams in the West next season regardless of anything else. I agree the long term fit isn't there, but short term it would pay big dividends. The fact that the FO tried so hard to get him speaks volumes to that. That's at the very least an A- move.

No way. I can not imagine this.

SMC0007 · 07-23-2019, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kemba at max is NOT an A move.

Not a perfect complementary piece to Luka and KP. Aging. Unremarkable defense and rebounding and more than anything he puts you in the tax. Repeat tax paying for a good but not perfect fit is not A material

You get Wright shooting 3s at a good rate (35%+) and he’s literally perfect for our back court next to Luka and he has shot 40% at times (November was 46% last year)