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Old 09-11-2020, 11:13 PM   #1
KillerLeft
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Default Official Mavs 2020 Draft/Free Agency Thread

Didn't see a thread for this (if I missed one, I'll delete) and it seems like this place is turning into a ghost town, day by day. Personally, the shutdown felt like an off season and the bubble has my basketball and Mavs appetite in overdrive.

So, what's the consensus around here regarding the best way forward? If you're the GM, do you hold off to see what Giannis does, or do you go into talent acquisition mode, full steam ahead? Maybe the latter, while carefully keeping yourself within 1-3 realistic steps of clearing space if/when you need it?

If you're ready to kiss Giannis goodbye, are there other 2021 targets that peak your interest? In any event, do you try to find seasoned vets who are on a win-now timeline, or do you stick with dudes in the 22-28 range who can grow with Luka and KP?

This part of the cycle is fascinating to me.

EDIT: I see that there's a whole board option devoted to discussions like this. I feel like this warrants its own thread but I know there are some hardcore rules here. I can't find an option to delete this, but if a mod wants to do it I'll understand.

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Old 09-12-2020, 11:19 AM   #2
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saw this poll on reddit - it has my top vote getter...

Which low/mid tier freeagent would you want to sign during the off-season?
My guess is that THJ opts in and that leaves us with little cap room.
Who would you want us to see signing?
Paul Millsap 38.1%
Marcus "Morals" Morris 19.7%
Jonas Jerebko 3.1%
Other - please mention names in comments 26.5%
Jeff Teague 4.9%
Wilson Chandler 7.6%

under the "other names mentioned"
Jeremy Grant, Surge Ibaka, Jae Crowder, harkless, hollis-jefferson,
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Old 09-12-2020, 01:57 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by KillerLeft View Post
Didn't see a thread for this (if I missed one, I'll delete) and it seems like this place is turning into a ghost town, day by day. Personally, the shutdown felt like an off season and the bubble has my basketball and Mavs appetite in overdrive.

So, what's the consensus around here regarding the best way forward? If you're the GM, do you hold off to see what Giannis does, or do you go into talent acquisition mode, full steam ahead? Maybe the latter, while carefully keeping yourself within 1-3 realistic steps of clearing space if/when you need it?

If you're ready to kiss Giannis goodbye, are there other 2021 targets that peak your interest? In any event, do you try to find seasoned vets who are on a win-now timeline, or do you stick with dudes in the 22-28 range who can grow with Luka and KP?

This part of the cycle is fascinating to me.

EDIT: I see that there's a whole board option devoted to discussions like this. I feel like this warrants its own thread but I know there are some hardcore rules here. I can't find an option to delete this, but if a mod wants to do it I'll understand.
Iím for acquiring talent this summer. If Giannis wants to come here, itís been proven time and again that cap space can be carved out. GSW alone have done it like three times in the last 5 years or so! Stole Iggy from us that way.

I think the goal with the MLE should be a quality rotation player on a not onerous contract. Personally I like Saric: his 3 pint percentage would improve here and he could be a playmaker with our second unit and would thrive in RCs offense. Problem is, Phoenix may just match if we offer MLE as heís restricted. And heís not a great defensive player.

Other option with MLE is giving part of it to guys like Derrick Jones Jr. or our own Trey Burke.

Iím ok with us using the picks in trade if it brings back a difference maker or younger player who will be part of the long term core. Ideally though, we come away from this draft with two young players: maybe one, or both, is ready to contribute right away. That seems to be a trend around the league. Maybe one or both become assets for a big trade down the line. Itís a draft with nice depth.

Worst case scenario seems to be standing pat AND missing out on Giannis. Iím not at all in favour of using MLE if MBT doesnít like whatís available. I donít think handing an old guy like Millsap or Baynes, as much as I like both, a 3yr deal just because we need ďenforcersĒ is a good use of resources. I think there is bound to be some player who fits our roster available for part or all of MLE.
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Old 09-12-2020, 04:07 PM   #4
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Iím for acquiring talent this summer. If Giannis wants to come here, itís been proven time and again that cap space can be carved out. GSW alone have done it like three times in the last 5 years or so! Stole Iggy from us that way.

I think the goal with the MLE should be a quality rotation player on a not onerous contract. Personally I like Saric: his 3 pint percentage would improve here and he could be a playmaker with our second unit and would thrive in RCs offense. Problem is, Phoenix may just match if we offer MLE as heís restricted. And heís not a great defensive player.

Other option with MLE is giving part of it to guys like Derrick Jones Jr. or our own Trey Burke.

Iím ok with us using the picks in trade if it brings back a difference maker or younger player who will be part of the long term core. Ideally though, we come away from this draft with two young players: maybe one, or both, is ready to contribute right away. That seems to be a trend around the league. Maybe one or both become assets for a big trade down the line. Itís a draft with nice depth.

Worst case scenario seems to be standing pat AND missing out on Giannis. Iím not at all in favour of using MLE if MBT doesnít like whatís available. I donít think handing an old guy like Millsap or Baynes, as much as I like both, a 3yr deal just because we need ďenforcersĒ is a good use of resources. I think there is bound to be some player who fits our roster available for part or all of MLE.
Interesting, thanks.

So, just so I'm clear, are you against ANY players past a certain age, and only interesting in young players, no matter what?

Like, is Jru Holiday too old, for example? Not saying he's available (though he could be) but that's a player who I do think would move the needle for this team. Would you be upset with that based on the timeline of the team, or are you all in for putting the best possible team on the floor for the next two seasons?
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:04 PM   #5
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Interesting, thanks.

So, just so I'm clear, are you against ANY players past a certain age, and only interesting in young players, no matter what?

Like, is Jru Holiday too old, for example? Not saying he's available (though he could be) but that's a player who I do think would move the needle for this team. Would you be upset with that based on the timeline of the team, or are you all in for putting the best possible team on the floor for the next two seasons?
For me, itís all relative to cost. Iím not against older players at all, but it depends on what they cost and how they impact future moves. Vets on short deals to act as bridge to compete while we work towards finding another impact ďstarĒ, thatís fine. Itís a really difficult line they have to walk: Luka Is ready to compete for titles NOW. But also for the next decade plus. I prefer to put other young vets around him and keep acquiring assets. I think between the two picks and MLE we should be able to accomplish that pretty well. Like if we get someone between the two picks at 18&31 who can give us decent minutes next season and a developmental prospect that would be a win.

Letís say one of the Beyís at 18 comes in and plays 15-20 per night off the bench for us. And at 31 Quickley or Cassius Stanley are our developmental guy playing spot minutes but effectively redshirting. Or vice versaó maledon, Poku, Hampton developmental guy at 18 and a Bane or Tre Jones or Nwora vet at 31 plays next season.

Another option is to trade the #18 for a young vet ala Denver with Grant if the opportunity presents. That way we lock up a guy on our timeline and we also arenít waiting for 2-3 years potentially for the pick to become a viable reliable playoff rotation guy.


I think Jru costs more than heís worth to us. It would take all our assets- or at least two of Maxi, Seth, DFS and 18&31 and probably 2025 1st. Not worth it to me to lose depth and all those assets. Iíd rather save for the eventual Beal move and be in position for a guy like that.

Pick good young players with our picks and ideally get a useable, re-routable player with the MLE if possible. Donít spend the MLE for the sake of using it ala Delon. Iíd rather a short term vet than an albatross.

Dumping the picks for ďpowderĒ seems worst case scenario to me. This will be a really weird draft and FA with lots of uncertainty. Unless they have an inside line on a young vet FA like Joe Harris or Christian Wood in FA Itís too much of a gamble to assume someone will want to take our money or that even if they did there would be value to be had in doing so. In fact itís possible this could lead to an overpay. Like giving an older guy like Gallo too much for too many years.
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:08 PM   #6
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Toronto, GS, Lakers, Clippers, Miami .... all the "cool" spots and big markets which have been mentioned as possible destinations for Giannis seem to have old rosters that would need considerable retooling to have a good team around him. He doesn't just leave Milwaukee without making sure that he has a stable team around him for years to come/

Houston is in the same boat with two stars over 30, and Harden not being his best friend, even though basketball wise they might have the best style to attract him. Plenty of shooters, open space to drive, and other ballhandlers ... though again, Harden might be too much of a ballhandler. Russ would need to leave though.

I really think that basketball sense it makes sense for him in Dallas, Donnie has old connections with him, and KP and him have a basketball friendship as well. For the first time, I think we really have a chance.

I just want to make sure we don't want to over-emphasize the "Euro" connection with Luka, KP or even to Dirk. They are all from three different countries with few links with each other. KP and Luka also played for years in Spain before coming over, whereas Giannis was playing in Greece's second division without ever facing other elite players in the continent. (Side note, this is very similar to Dirk who was also an unkown in Europe, playing Germany's second division, which is even more of a basketball backwater than Greece. He never faced any of the European elite while in Germany). Giannis was also the son Nigerian immigrants to boot, who probably didn't even get a chance to travel outside Greece before getting his citizenship at age 18, in his last year living in Greece. "Europe" is probably a foreign concept for him to begin with. I know he feels partly Greek and partly Nigerian, but "Europe" to him probably means nothing.

If he comes to Dallas, it's because it's a good situation, with a stable franchise, and with basketball people he knows and trusts.
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:16 PM   #7
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Sorry to write such a long-winded response. I guess my summation is: I see very little down side to picking two young, cheap contract players (we need those!) and using the MLE on a player we target that will be a contributing rotation member on a contract that is moveable in a big future trade or short enough that it doesn’t matter. Ideally at least one of these between the picks and MLE is an athletic wing that can defend and rebound. Ideally the picks are BPA. Eventually, either with cap space or by trade, we add a legit 2nd/3rd option like Boston did with Kemba. Someone like Beal ideally. To take the heat off Luka and score and be the focal point when Luka sits. It’s possible we get this player in the draft(Kira Lewis, Maxey?) but highly unlikely at 18. It’s also highly unlikely we get this player this offseason in FA or trade(Wood, FVV?). So just collect good young players who could be assets used for that future player who gets moved in the next two years.
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:25 PM   #8
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Toronto, GS, Lakers, Clippers, Miami .... all the "cool" spots and big markets which have been mentioned as possible destinations for Giannis seem to have old rosters that would need considerable retooling to have a good team around him. He doesn't just leave Milwaukee without making sure that he has a stable team around him for years to come/

Houston is in the same boat with two stars over 30, and Harden not being his best friend, even though basketball wise they might have the best style to attract him. Plenty of shooters, open space to drive, and other ballhandlers ... though again, Harden might be too much of a ballhandler. Russ would need to leave though.

I really think that basketball sense it makes sense for him in Dallas, Donnie has old connections with him, and KP and him have a basketball friendship as well. For the first time, I think we really have a chance.

I just want to make sure we don't want to over-emphasize the "Euro" connection with Luka, KP or even to Dirk. They are all from three different countries with few links with each other. KP and Luka also played for years in Spain before coming over, whereas Giannis was playing in Greece's second division without ever facing other elite players in the continent. (Side note, this is very similar to Dirk who was also an unkown in Europe, playing Germany's second division, which is even more of a basketball backwater than Greece. He never faced any of the European elite while in Germany). Giannis was also the son Nigerian immigrants to boot, who probably didn't even get a chance to travel outside Greece before getting his citizenship at age 18, in his last year living in Greece. "Europe" is probably a foreign concept for him to begin with. I know he feels partly Greek and partly Nigerian, but "Europe" to him probably means nothing.

If he comes to Dallas, it's because it's a good situation, with a stable franchise, and with basketball people he knows and trusts.
I agree on one level. On the other hand, he could see a 5 year window with any of GSW, LAC or Miami. Depends on if this move comes through trade or FA signing. Miami would have to give up almost all its young talent to get him unless he says: trade me there or I sign outright. Future low picks, Herro, Robinson, Nunn still isnít getting it done. And Miami loses all shooting. Bam and Robinson and picks? GS can offer the motherload. Toronto would be building around Giannis, Siakam, OG and FVV presumably so he would have to trust Masai/Nurse to fill in around the edges. LAC could sign and trade Harrell, Zubac, Shamet, Lou Williams on a value contract and some scattered picks. Pretty meh.
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:10 PM   #9
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I agree on one level. On the other hand, he could see a 5 year window with any of GSW, LAC or Miami. Depends on if this move comes through trade or FA signing. Miami would have to give up almost all its young talent to get him unless he says: trade me there or I sign outright. Future low picks, Herro, Robinson, Nunn still isnít getting it done. And Miami loses all shooting. Bam and Robinson and picks? GS can offer the motherload. Toronto would be building around Giannis, Siakam, OG and FVV presumably so he would have to trust Masai/Nurse to fill in around the edges. LAC could sign and trade Harrell, Zubac, Shamet, Lou Williams on a value contract and some scattered picks. Pretty meh.
Steph is 33 next summer and Klay will be 31. As good as those guys are, and as good as shooting ages, Giannis would be a fool to invest his prime with guys that will be on the downside of their career. Most of the other situations are similar as well, with key stars over 30.

In Dallas he would have KP at the same age, and Luka being 4 years younger. I think that is a tremendous asset if he is thinking about consecutive opportunities to win a ring, not just a few runs.
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:23 PM   #10
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I agree that GS is not an option. Unless one of the LA teams decides to completely overhaul their roster to get him, which is exceedingly unlikely but always possible (LA as a location will forever be the ultimate advantage) then I see three options for Giannis, in no particular order:

1. Milwaukee
2. Dallas
3. Miami
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:51 PM   #11
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Steph is 33 next summer and Klay will be 31. As good as those guys are, and as good as shooting ages, Giannis would be a fool to invest his prime with guys that will be on the downside of their career. Most of the other situations are similar as well, with key stars over 30.

In Dallas he would have KP at the same age, and Luka being 4 years younger. I think that is a tremendous asset if he is thinking about consecutive opportunities to win a ring, not just a few runs.
Fair enough. You may be right. I could see them maybe trading Dray if they did get Freak. Try to get back a couple younger pieces.
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:54 PM   #12
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Fair enough. You may be right. I could see them maybe trading Dray if they did get Freak. Try to get back a couple younger pieces.
Oh, it for sure makes sense for THEM. Smartest possible thing they could do. Maximizes Steph's career and bridges the gap to post Steph relevance. I just don't get how you're pining for that if you're Giannis, unless he's just a huge fan of the bay area, I guess. And, if Milwaukee for some reason shifts into trade mode for him, I feel like they'll get much better offers than what GS can provide.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:21 PM   #13
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Oh, it for sure makes sense for THEM. Smartest possible thing they could do. Maximizes Steph's career and bridges the gap to post Steph relevance. I just don't get how you're pining for that if you're Giannis, unless he's just a huge fan of the bay area, I guess. And, if Milwaukee for some reason shifts into trade mode for him, I feel like they'll get much better offers than what GS can provide.
They have the #2 pick in a weak at the top draft and a top 3 wolves pick next season in a strong draft and Wiggins, who is useable, as salary match. What if they really like Wiseman or Devi and figure they can still be decent with Wiggins and the rest of remaining cast? Or they could quickly pivot to rebuild and sell Middleton and Lopez as well to the highest bidders. Bottom out and have two top 10 picks next season and more on the way for Middleton. Iím not saying they would or should. But they would have options.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:38 PM   #14
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They have the #2 pick in a weak at the top draft and a top 3 wolves pick next season in a strong draft and Wiggins, who is useable, as salary match. What if they really like Wiseman or Devi and figure they can still be decent with Wiggins and the rest of remaining cast? Or they could quickly pivot to rebuild and sell Middleton and Lopez as well to the highest bidders. Bottom out and have two top 10 picks next season and more on the way for Middleton. Iím not saying they would or should. But they would have options.
I'm with you - those picks are valuable. I think that's a good haul, but idk...I feel like if I'm Milwaukee and I decide I have no choice but to trade the guy I'm trying to get a haul that's ridiculous.

You'd rather get what OKC got for George than what NYK got for KP, right?
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Old 09-12-2020, 10:14 PM   #15
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The Wolves pick next year is top-3 protected, so actually it hasnt huuge value, considering the Wolves are going to add #1 this year or trade the pick for a veteran
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:18 PM   #16
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Give me James Johnson as shortterm solution for 2-3 years. Thats the guy we need for the bigger wings and toughness. He was co-captain with the Heat but then they moved on from him when he came little bit out of shape into camp. But he had pretty solid games with the Grizzlies after the trade.

And in other news:
Quote:
The thing is, James Johnson holds a second-degree black belt in karate, and he's also undefeated in seven MMA matches as well as 20 kickboxing matches.
https://www.bardown.com/ben-simmons-...-off-1.1064026

Edit: Ah crap he has a player option, he wont walk away from that money. Too bad. But would trade Wright+Jackson for him.

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