Playoff records after the championship - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Simon2 · 01-31-2021, 11:27 AM

I find it hard to understand why the head coach is not accountable for not winning a playoff series after 2011. Time flies very quickly and it is hard to believe that its almost 10 years without a playoff win. In retrospect, the team before Cuban took over was getting deep into the playoffs. Even then, it was still frustrating. The team record in a span of 10 years is worse than when Cuban took over and it doesn’t look like anyone is upset. The Mavs are not hesitant to change players or even cap space but no talk of putting the heat on the coach? Don’t tell me there aren’t coaches available. There is always a hungrier person out there with newer and smarter ideas. No, he/she might not have the playoff experience of a Carlise but then again. When was the last time Carise won a playoff series?

Dallas41 · 01-31-2021, 12:48 PM

Avery got a team to the finals but he lost so they gave him the ax the following year after a 60 win team was bounced out the playoffs by the Warriors.

Many questioned Avery's decision to make a lineup change vs the Warriors.

I think his winning percentage though is better than RC's winning percentage in Dallas.

But the key is RC won his Title so that put him in the class with Popovich even though Popovich has won more rings. The only way Carlisle leaves Dallas is on his own terms unfortunately because that ring carry's a lot of weight with Cuban and Donnie.

Personally, I think in his prime Donnie's dad would run circle around RC coaching. I think the older Nelson with Luka would have this ready to play every night. He had some of the worst defensive players in the league on his teams like Antoine Walker, Nick Van Exel, Rae LaFrentz and Antoine Jamison yet Nellie found ways to win games at a high level.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-31-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon2

I find it hard to understand why the head coach is not accountable for not winning a playoff series after 2011. Time flies very quickly and it is hard to believe that its almost 10 years without a playoff win. In retrospect, the team before Cuban took over was getting deep into the playoffs. Even then, it was still frustrating. The team record in a span of 10 years is worse than when Cuban took over and it doesn’t look like anyone is upset. The Mavs are not hesitant to change players or even cap space but no talk of putting the heat on the coach? Don’t tell me there aren’t coaches available. There is always a hungrier person out there with newer and smarter ideas. No, he/she might not have the playoff experience of a Carlise but then again. When was the last time Carise won a playoff series?

I assume you mean Carlisle, not Cuban?

I dunno. I hear where you're coming from, but at the same time, I look at the way Cuban and Donnie ran the franchise after 2011 and I would blame ALL of our playoff losses on personnel way more than coaching. I honestly think Carlisle did as well as anyone probably could have given what he had to work with.

And I've said it before, but I really think Carlisle did a fantastic job last year. I thought he should have been a strong contender for COY.

HOWEVER- sometimes things can go bad very quickly in a lockerroom, and it's possible Carlisle has just ran his course. I do still think that he's a brilliant basketball mind, but it's possible he's just not a good fit for Luka. I don't know. All I know is this season has been a monumental disappointment so far. A lot of that is because of covid... but certainly not all of it. And covid or no, something is clearly just wrong with the Mavericks right now. If the team doesn't at least show signs of improvement over the course of the season, then it might be time for the Mavs and Carlisle to part ways.

Simon2 · 01-31-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I assume you mean Carlisle, not Cuban?

I dunno. I hear where you're coming from, but at the same time, I look at the way Cuban and Donnie ran the franchise after 2011 and I would blame ALL of our playoff losses on personnel way more than coaching. I honestly think Carlisle did as well as anyone probably could have given what he had to work with.

And I've said it before, but I really think Carlisle did a fantastic job last year. I thought he should have been a strong contender for COY.

HOWEVER- sometimes things can go bad very quickly in a lockerroom, and it's possible Carlisle has just ran his course. I do still think that he's a brilliant basketball mind, but it's possible he's just not a good fit for Luka. I don't know. All I know is this season has been a monumental disappointment so far. A lot of that is because of covid... but certainly not all of it. And covid or no, something is clearly just wrong with the Mavericks right now. If the team doesn't at least show signs of improvement over the course of the season, then it might be time for the Mavs and Carlisle to part ways.

I guess the Mavs have fallen into some rut of mediocrity. Right now, its just boring. We will see what happens. What if the Mavs got Becky Hammon? What you guys think of that? I think it would be brilliant even from a marketing standpoint. First franchise to have a female head count. That’s maverick!

sefant77 · 01-31-2021, 08:42 PM

Oh look the dumb tweet from Craig Miller goes around.

Simple answer to the question: which playoff series Rick was supposed to win?

turin · 01-31-2021, 09:01 PM

.

Simon2 · 01-31-2021, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Oh look the dumb tweet from Craig Miller goes around.

Simple answer to the question: which playoff series Rick was supposed to win?

All of them. Or was he supposed to lose? Kind lost me where losing was ok.

sefant77 · 01-31-2021, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon2

All of them. Or was he supposed to lose? Kind lost me where losing was ok.

Ah come on, you knew what i mean.

So in which series we were the favorite and lost because Rick did a bad coaching job?

Also some of the last sucking years was simple the prize to make Dirk happy. Because after DeAndre screwing us over and ruing an entire free agency and then also realizing that Parsons is damaged goods we should have blown it up to go full trust the process..

Simon2 · 01-31-2021, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ah come on, you knew what i mean.

So in which series we were the favorite and lost because Rick did a bad coaching job?

Also some of the last sucking years was simple the prize to make Dirk happy. Because after DeAndre screwing us over and ruing an entire free agency and then also realizing that Parsons is damaged goods we should have blown it up to go full trust the process..

And you don’t understand what I mean. Are the Mavs only supposed to win those that they are favored to win? Really? DeAndre? Just another excuse. Dirk would have been happy to win more championships. At some point, 11 years without a playoff win? If that’s acceptable because of one excuse or another, then that’s my point. That’s mediocre mentality. What happened to winning? Honestly, I think the focus shifted to cap space and dust chip. Here’s a classic example, Mavs get killed on the boards but Rick insists to play small ball. No adjustments at all. Honestly, can you ask this coach if his goal is still to win a champhionship? If the answer is not yes, then somewhere along the way, they got lost. The bad part it seems to have won one is now the focus is lost. Who on the Mavs still has the drive to win a championship? Who is pushing them?

sefant77 · 02-01-2021, 09:21 AM

Ricks results are exactl were the talent level in these years were, often even above.

Thats why the take "Rick should be accoutable for not winning a series" is bullcrap.

Btw im a strong believer that we beat the Clippers if KP doesnt get hurt. But thats Ricks fault too, huh

turin · 02-01-2021, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Oh look the dumb tweet from Craig Miller goes around.

Simple answer to the question: which playoff series Rick was supposed to win?

San Antonio 2010. RC gave that series away not playing Roddy B more.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-01-2021, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon2

And you don’t understand what I mean. Are the Mavs only supposed to win those that they are favored to win? Really? DeAndre? Just another excuse. Dirk would have been happy to win more championships. At some point, 11 years without a playoff win? If that’s acceptable because of one excuse or another, then that’s my point. That’s mediocre mentality. What happened to winning? Honestly, I think the focus shifted to cap space and dust chip. Here’s a classic example, Mavs get killed on the boards but Rick insists to play small ball. No adjustments at all. Honestly, can you ask this coach if his goal is still to win a champhionship? If the answer is not yes, then somewhere along the way, they got lost. The bad part it seems to have won one is now the focus is lost. Who on the Mavs still has the drive to win a championship? Who is pushing them?

I don't think anyone believes that 11 years without a playoff win is "acceptable," but I agree with sefant's sentiment that none of the losses since 2011 were due to bad coaching.

Are the Mavs only supposed to win the series they're favored to win? Well.... yeah, kinda. If the other team is favored to win, that usually means they were the better team. So if you're really arguing that it's Carlisle's fault that the Mavericks haven't had any playoff success since 2011, I think it's perfectly fair to ask which series the Mavs lost because of coaching, and not because of talent on the court.

For the record, I am NOT totally opposed to moving on from Carlisle. I think if the Mavs don't turn it around this season, it should be very strongly considered. But I'm judging that based on what I'm seeing right now, not on anything that happened after 2011 and before we got Luka.

Here's the uncomfortable truth. As much as we Mavs fans want to blame the front office for "wasting" the latter years of Dirk's career- and I'm not saying they didn't- the fact is, it was precisely because of that same loyalty and gratitude to Dirk that the Mavs were so mediocre for so long and had that lack of playoff success we're so upset about. Cuban's loyalty to Dirk prompted him to try desperately to get whatever little he could to continue cobbling a playoff worthy roster around an aging, declining player. I don't blame him for it, and it surely could have been done smarter (we certainly don't need to dissect Plan Powder anymore.) BUT, from a heartless, cold-blooded, purely basketball standpoint... Trying to reward Dirk's loyalty by keeping the team semi-competitive was not the smart thing to do. From a purely basketball standpoint, not a personal loyalty standpoint, the Mavs should have torn it down, tanked, and done a complete rebuild several years before they did. If Cuban hadn't been so loyal to Dirk, he probably would have traded Dirk while he was still worth something- Danny Ainge style. I'm not saying that's what Cuban should have done. If it were me, I probably would have done the same thing and tried my damnedest to keep putting a winning team around Dirk. BUT let's be honest. It set the franchise back several years. And eventually Dirk was completely washed and there was nothing left to put around him that Dirk ended up having to retire on a lottery team anyway- exactly what Cuban tried so hard to avoid.

Zeus · 02-28-2021, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Oh look the dumb tweet from Craig Miller goes around.

Simple answer to the question: which playoff series Rick was supposed to win?

Bad logic. So the goal for a head coach to not be blamed is to be consistently mediocre every season so you either dont make the playoffs or are not favored in any series? Junior Miller was correct - the Mavs have a force field around them. Remember when Jerry picked Taco Charlton over TJ Watt? People were BBQing Jerry by mid season. Cuban/Donnie/Rick and the brain trust pick G-League sensation Josh Green over emerging rookie talent Saddiq Bey. I don't hear anyone BBQing the Mavs over this.

Zeus · 02-28-2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't think anyone believes that 11 years without a playoff win is "acceptable," but I agree with sefant's sentiment that none of the losses since 2011 were due to bad coaching.

Are the Mavs only supposed to win the series they're favored to win? Well.... yeah, kinda. If the other team is favored to win, that usually means they were the better team. So if you're really arguing that it's Carlisle's fault that the Mavericks haven't had any playoff success since 2011, I think it's perfectly fair to ask which series the Mavs lost because of coaching, and not because of talent on the court.

For the record, I am NOT totally opposed to moving on from Carlisle. I think if the Mavs don't turn it around this season, it should be very strongly considered. But I'm judging that based on what I'm seeing right now, not on anything that happened after 2011 and before we got Luka.

Here's the uncomfortable truth. As much as we Mavs fans want to blame the front office for "wasting" the latter years of Dirk's career- and I'm not saying they didn't- the fact is, it was precisely because of that same loyalty and gratitude to Dirk that the Mavs were so mediocre for so long and had that lack of playoff success we're so upset about. Cuban's loyalty to Dirk prompted him to try desperately to get whatever little he could to continue cobbling a playoff worthy roster around an aging, declining player. I don't blame him for it, and it surely could have been done smarter (we certainly don't need to dissect Plan Powder anymore.) BUT, from a heartless, cold-blooded, purely basketball standpoint... Trying to reward Dirk's loyalty by keeping the team semi-competitive was not the smart thing to do. From a purely basketball standpoint, not a personal loyalty standpoint, the Mavs should have torn it down, tanked, and done a complete rebuild several years before they did. If Cuban hadn't been so loyal to Dirk, he probably would have traded Dirk while he was still worth something- Danny Ainge style. I'm not saying that's what Cuban should have done. If it were me, I probably would have done the same thing and tried my damnedest to keep putting a winning team around Dirk. BUT let's be honest. It set the franchise back several years. And eventually Dirk was completely washed and there was nothing left to put around him that Dirk ended up having to retire on a lottery team anyway- exactly what Cuban tried so hard to avoid.

I think Plan Powder was the culprit in the decade of mediocrity. Cuban has basically admitted that he misread the implications of the CBA. Turns out that assets were more valuable than cap space. The song and dance circa 2012 when Cuban shed what still would have been a competitive team for 3 more years (could have added a piece or two on the fly with the championship core in tact) was that he couldn't keep the core because they then would have been locked in for the next 5 years with no chance at a big free agent. This was failed logic by a normally logical billionaire genius type.

SMC0007 · 02-28-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Bad logic. So the goal for a head coach to not be blamed is to be consistently mediocre every season so you either dont make the playoffs or are not favored in any series? Junior Miller was correct - the Mavs have a force field around them. Remember when Jerry picked Taco Charlton over TJ Watt? People were BBQing Jerry by mid season. Cuban/Donnie/Rick and the brain trust pick G-League sensation Josh Green over emerging rookie talent Saddiq Bey. I don't hear anyone BBQing the Mavs over this.

1996...is how long ago it was since Jerry and the boys won a chip. They deserve the BBQ.