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Old 06-02-2019, 09:57 AM   #1241
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We are pretty much back to the discussion "star player with a not perfect fit" vs "2-3 role player with perfect fit".

Im still on the star player train and looks like the FO thinks the same. And i think thats the reasons:
One of our two go to guys is KP. He isnt a workhorse like other guys and he is going to need minutes restrictions and load management. So there is plenty of time (and entire games) where its again just Luka and supporting cast.

Our role player are really solid, but there is really no one that has the clear potential to make another huge leap to become a borderline allsta/clear third best player etc. Brunson, Kleber, DFS, Powell (if he stays) - they are what they are. JJ is nice but problably not even near to pull off something like Siakam. Our role players are better when their offensive roles are limited. Specially THJ, if you wanna turn him into a guy with average efficiency, he needs to be your 4th scorer at best...

Thats why they go so hard for the third star. Because of KP and our limited supporting cast.

And like i always said: Kemba on a normal 4y max is okay. Kemba on a 5y max (normal or supermax) is terrible.

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Old 06-02-2019, 10:07 AM   #1242
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Trading Barnes just means they need money to be in the game. You want to be able to get a big FA, but that doesn't mean you're likely to. You might want Butler, but missing out on him and acquiring Terrence Ross may be a much better signing. However, If you don't have the money, a Durant or Kemba Walker is completely off the table. We can't even have the conversation. Dallas might be a good second choice for a star player if negotiations elsewhere have them falling through the cracks.

There's an ESPN article posted a week ago about how Dallas will likely retain good cap space for the next three years (subscription). Hardaway is a problem, but I suspect will be tradeable next season. We will add contracts between now and 2021, but some contracts will come off the books. The Mavs are in good shape for awhile. We can afford to be both picky and patient.
I agree with a lot of what you say but it didn't make a lot of sense to move Barnes if they didn't have their sights on signing someone better this offseason....at least a better fit. Barnes' contract would have expired at the end of this next season so it would have been better to just keep him and have that extra 25mil going into 2020 FA if that was their original strategy.

My guess is they'll go after the top FAs this offseason and if/when they miss out they'll end up overspending for someone like Vuc, or they'll sign a bunch of one year deals that will give them some tradeable assets at the TDL.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:18 AM   #1243
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We are pretty much back to the discussion "star player with a not perfect fit" vs "2-3 role player with perfect fit".

Im still on the star player train and looks like the FO thinks the same. And i think thats the reasons:
One of our two go to guys is KP. He isnt a workhorse like other guys and he is going to need minutes restrictions and load management. So there is plenty of time (and entire games) where its again just Luka and supporting cast.

Our role player are really solid, but there is really like no one that has the clear potential to make another huge leap to become a borderline allsta/clear third best player etc. Brunson, Kleber, DFS, Powell (if he stays) - they are what they are. JJ is nice but problably not even near to pull off something like Siakam. Our role players are better when their offensive roles are limited. Specially THJ, if you wanna turn him into a guy with average efficiency, he needs to be your 4th scorer at best...

Thats why they go so hard for the third star. Because of KP and our limited supporting cast.

And like i always said: Kemba on a normal 4y max is okay. Kemba on a 5y max (normal or supermax) is terrible.
Yeah, pretty much the way I see it.

I'm not a fan of signing Vuc at all but we do need to somewhat protect KP at least for a few years and Vuc would at least help that. The problem is that he'll cost far too much. But it would be extremely risky and foolish to put KP in a KG workhorse role this next season.

I'd rather just vastly overpay for Brogdon (like we did CP) and roll the dice of him being that 3rd option we desperately need.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:08 PM   #1244
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How well would Malcolm Brogdon pair with Luka Doncic? He could be the perfect Mavs addition
https://theathletic.com/999251/2019/...mavs-addition/

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Malcolm Brogdon has turned into an efficient assassin in Milwaukee despite getting average looks. In Dallas, he would get better opportunities without needing to be ball-dominant in a way that would dull the edge of Doncic.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:43 PM   #1245
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I agree with a lot of what you say but it didn't make a lot of sense to move Barnes if they didn't have their sights on signing someone better this offseason....at least a better fit. Barnes' contract would have expired at the end of this next season so it would have been better to just keep him and have that extra 25mil going into 2020 FA if that was their original strategy.
I'm sure they wanted to trade "for someone better" as you say. I'm just saying there's a whole lot of players that are a better fit than Barnes. I'm not sure Justin Jackson isn't a better fit on this team than Barnes... and he was a throw-in.

I think there a lot of player combinations out there that make us better. Max players are just one avenue.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:04 PM   #1246
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I'm sure they wanted to trade "for someone better" as you say. I'm just saying there's a whole lot of players that are a better fit than Barnes. I'm not sure Justin Jackson isn't a better fit on this team than Barnes... and he was a throw-in.

I think there a lot of player combinations out there that make us better. Max players are just one avenue.
Cuban mentioned a month or so ago they want to add "firepower" to the team so I take that as wanting to add a star player.
I'm not necessarily opposed to adding a combination of role players like Ed Davis, Beverley, Dedmon, etc, but I don't think the FO will be happy with that and would look to use the extra cap space as a potential element to help acquire better players via trades.

We have some pretty good role players already so I'm not sure adding more would take us to another level.
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:14 PM   #1247
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Cuban mentioned a month or so ago they want to add "firepower" to the team so I take that as wanting to add a star player.
I probably wouldn't assume a max star based on that comment, but great minds can differ.
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:01 PM   #1248
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How well would Malcolm Brogdon pair with Luka Doncic? He could be the perfect Mavs addition
https://theathletic.com/999251/2019/...mavs-addition/
Great article. What we have been saying for the past 2 months but with some sharp data to support it.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:21 PM   #1249
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I probably wouldn't assume a max star based on that comment, but great minds can differ.
There should be a difference between a max star and a star in terms of contracts but not sure that will apply this year.
I definitely understand why people don't want to overpay for players and in most cases I'm on board but there are some guys like Brogdon I'd throw crazy money at to get that 3rd option. He is young and could be a key core piece for many years.

I'm actually hoping we put a ridiculous offer on the table for Brogdon and then wait it out. If Bucks don't match then we get our guy. If they match we go after the cream of the crop of what is left in FA and hopefully not overpay. Even if we do overpay at least we aren't throwing crazy max money at non-max caliber players.
That is probably where these great minds agree

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Old 06-02-2019, 05:33 PM   #1250
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There should be a difference between a max star and a star in terms of contracts but not sure that will apply this year.
I definitely understand why people don't want to overpay for players and in most cases I'm on board but there are some guys like Brogdon I'd throw crazy money at to get that 3rd option. He is young and could be a key core piece for many years.

I'm actually hoping we put a ridiculous offer on the table for Brogdon and then wait it out. If Bucks don't match then we get our guy. If they match we go after the cream of the crop of what is left in FA and hopefully not overpay. Even if we do overpay at least we aren't throwing crazy max money at non-max caliber players.
That is probably where these great minds agree
I do agree with Brogdon. And I'd probably pay handsomely for a guy who can both create his own shot and catch-and-shoot 3's at a high percentage. Also, he's a stand-up guy off the court. So, if we really want this player, I say do it.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:48 PM   #1251
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Oh, I'm not in the "Beverly and spare parts" crowd at all. Problem is fans have issues with everyone. Kemba fit. Butler nutcase. Randle no defense. Vuc a center next to KP. I think we have to go for one of those though and roll the dice. I don't think the Brogdons/Beverlys move the needle just by themselves.

Hate to say it, but I think I'd roll the dice on Butler if he was open to a meeting.
I agree. I'm down for Butler if he's willing to come. He's actually my favorite guy to get on this team.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:51 PM   #1252
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I'm not exactly sure why people think we have to have some max player this year just because we have money. The two people who are going to "move the needle" for this franchise are Luca and KP. Everyone else is support cast.

If the Mavs don't find a max player super stud this season, they sign good players to one and two year contracts until better players become available. Great teams aren't put together in one year.

That's why a guy like Brogdon is a great piece by itself, but even he might not be available. I think people need to lower their expectations a little. Dallas isn't a playoff team yet. No FA is going to make the Mavs a high priority this year. This year we will have to get lucky, and if we find just one keeper component it should be viewed as a success.

Our goal next season is to make the playoffs in a division that's already stacked with good teams.
Luka and KP as of now are not good enough to win by themselves with spare parts. I'm sorry. I like both guys but as of right now they aren't. We don't even know if KP's body can even hold up in this league yet. Our goal next season is to win a ring. If its to get the 8th seed then its pointless. Especially in a year where we actually have our first round draft pick? Signing free agents to get the 8th seed shouldn't be the goal. We should sign guys to get a ring.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:53 PM   #1253
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Let's not misinterpret what I'm saying here.

We have money to get good players, but we have no playoff track record with which to attract them (as Boston did in 2008). We are going to have to be lucky because Dallas will not be the first choice of most FAs. Not Kemba, not Butler, not Thompson, not Durant, not Harris, not any star that I can think of.

But after all the shaking loose of money and free agents this summer, some good players are going to be available. The question will be how you sign them. There's not many "good" players I'm willing to sign to four-year contracts at max money now knowing that a huge number of stars will be available in 2021. The idea is to get a good team to get to the playoffs.

We are fortunate that we have the same people in place who built a championship around Dirks talent (work that took well over a decade). You want the best players, but you don't want to overpay with a long contract (Alan Crabbe makes almost 20 million a year on a 4-year contract) or a superstar that's aging like Chris Paul. But you can afford to overpay a little for a one-year contract.

What I'm saying is that if you signed JJ Reddick on a one-year contract, that's not a necessarily a failure. That might be the best you could do this year. That's a perfect player on a one-year contract until you can find the better player. You sign two or three players like that, and you have a good shot at the playoffs.

When Dallas won it all, Dirk and Jason Kidd were the super stars. Terry came off the bench. Tyson Chandler was on a one-year contract. Success for Dallas might be finding the next Shawn Marion this year - a veteran guy who was a complementary piece.

That's why having a conversation about Beverley makes more sense (and why he's an option over Brunson). I don't think Beverley will be a Maverick, but guys like that make sense in a realistic discussion. He is a veteran that has the right skill set and possibly the right salary. The same is true with guys like Dedmon.

So my expectations are to get to the playoffs this nest season. Acquiring veterans for this team is important to that end - and if we don't get lucky with a max-contract stud this season, we get good veteran players on shorter contracts. The 2011 NBA champs did they same thing with Chandler and Peja.
Kidd was far from a superstar when he won. That being said, that 2011 was the exception to the rule. Teams who win don't normally win like the Mavs won that year.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:02 PM   #1254
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Luka and KP as of now are not good enough to win by themselves with spare parts. I'm sorry. I like both guys but as of right now they aren't. We don't even know if KP's body can even hold up in this league yet. Our goal next season is to win a ring. If its to get the 8th seed then its pointless. Especially in a year where we actually have our first round draft pick? Signing free agents to get the 8th seed shouldn't be the goal. We should sign guys to get a ring.
Everything we do should be aimed at being competitive both in the short term and long term. Hopefully KP is the superstar we think he is. Doncic has already shown he will be just that. There is real risk to putting 4 years on a guy like Kemba at those dollars.

I would much prefer to compete with a roster filled with solid pieces while developing Doncic and KP. If you need a 3rd superstar, you will have zero issues picking WHOEVER you want in any free agency for the next 10 years. Players need to see the Mavs back in the playoffs competing for rings with two sub 26 year old guys.

Best case scenario is the committee route picking up 2-3 versatile guys.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:21 PM   #1255
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Luka and KP as of now are not good enough to win by themselves with spare parts. I'm sorry. I like both guys but as of right now they aren't. We don't even know if KP's body can even hold up in this league yet. Our goal next season is to win a ring. If its to get the 8th seed then its pointless. Especially in a year where we actually have our first round draft pick? Signing free agents to get the 8th seed shouldn't be the goal. We should sign guys to get a ring.
Damn man. You're tough.

Steph Curry and Klay Thompson started their careers winning 23 games during their first season together. They had to put pieces next to them. It took 4 more years.

The best Mavs players haven't played together yet. These guys have to gel. It's unrealistic to expect a championship before these players have even played a game.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:38 PM   #1256
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Warriors drafted Klay in 2011 and got their 3rd star with Green in 2012. In 12-13 they allready went to the 2nd round and lost to the Spurs (who threw the title away against the Heat).
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:35 PM   #1257
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Warriors drafted Klay in 2011 and got their 3rd star with Green in 2012. In 12-13 they allready went to the 2nd round and lost to the Spurs (who threw the title away against the Heat).
They were a playoff team, but they weren't all that serious until they landed Iggy in 2013... And even then, Klay and Dray still weren't All-Stars until 2014, 2015. Oh, and they almost dumped Klay for Kevin Love because they were growing impatient, which likely would have yielded zero rings for the franchise.

So if you're arguing AGAINST a patient approach, then pick a different team to use as an example because the Dubs took 4+ years to build into what they became.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:31 AM   #1258
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Cousins on a shorter term make good deal looks more and more appeasing but he will of course probably out play that possibility in the finals
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:35 AM   #1259
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I mean if we totally lose out on all a/b free agents Cousins on a short-term deal makes some sense. But really would only give him 2 years with a team option in the 2nd. 25M max total.

If I was him though, I'd go for the max dollar even at a lower annual salary. Something along 40-50M / 4 yrs given his injury situation could be tempting. He already bet on himself this year, never fully recovered, and instead injured himself again. Sure he could go with another "prove it" year and then hope for max money 2020/2021, but how viable is that? He'll be 30 entering such a contract and would need a major bounce-back performance for teams to consider that.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:04 AM   #1260
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I mean if we totally lose out on all a/b free agents Cousins on a short-term deal makes some sense. But really would only give him 2 years with a team option in the 2nd. 25M max total.

If I was him though, I'd go for the max dollar even at a lower annual salary. Something along 40-50M / 4 yrs given his injury situation could be tempting. He already bet on himself this year, never fully recovered, and instead injured himself again. Sure he could go with another "prove it" year and then hope for max money 2020/2021, but how viable is that? He'll be 30 entering such a contract and would need a major bounce-back performance for teams to consider that.
Watching Cousins last night bring the ball up the court as a point-forward would have given Don Nelson wet dreams.

Still it's hard to imagine the Mavs gambling that Cousins is a good fit on a Mavs team.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:56 PM   #1261
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKOBkBpCfYg

It IS a highlight package, but this guy checks a lot of boxes. Being paired with KP would make us long/tall and mobile. His first 7 years in the league he takes no 3's, decides to become a stretch 5 and poof the last two seasons he has great success and averages .370% on 3's and last season .382%. He and KP would cause issues for sure with their mobility and length especially around the paint on defense.

IQ (Especially good at getting open and dashing into passing lanes)
Speed
Hands
Shooting touch
Finishing
Blocks/defense
Rebounding

Slight downside is he is 29yrs old but he should have plenty of mileage left on his legs since he has only averaged 18mpg.

He's obviously not the 3rd option, max player or star some want but I'm hoping the Mavs look into him as an option.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:10 PM   #1262
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Yeah i still dont want to ruin this team with Cousins attitude. I think way too much risk he clashes with KP
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:07 PM   #1263
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Dallas Mavericks: How Luka Doncic and Patrick Beverley would fit together
https://thesmokingcuban.com/2019/06/...-beverley-fit/
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:28 AM   #1264
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I don't understand the Beverley fascination. Guy is about to turn 31 years old and depends a lot on his athleticism. He is also only 6 1. I could see if he was 25. We can find a guy in the second round that can do what Beverley does at this point.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:10 AM   #1265
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I don't understand the Beverley fascination. Guy is about to turn 31 years old and depends a lot on his athleticism. He is also only 6 1. I could see if he was 25. We can find a guy in the second round that can do what Beverley does at this point.
Idk about that. He brings toughness and fearlessness that would likely be contagious especially to Luka, KP and Brunson. Overall numbers aren't special but it takes a while for most guys who aren't elite to develop his level of confidence. He's not a building block or long term guy by any means but if he doesn't over value himself which is possible, it could be a nice solid addition. I don't think Brunson is far from what Bev could provide but his mentality is not quite there yet.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:08 PM   #1266
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Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash View Post
I don't understand the Beverley fascination. Guy is about to turn 31 years old and depends a lot on his athleticism. He is also only 6 1. I could see if he was 25. We can find a guy in the second round that can do what Beverley does at this point.
Because you need realistic options after all the 25-year-old All-Stars are off the market.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:47 PM   #1267
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I don't understand the Beverley fascination. Guy is about to turn 31 years old and depends a lot on his athleticism. He is also only 6 1. I could see if he was 25. We can find a guy in the second round that can do what Beverley does at this point.
Would you rather sign Wes Matthews because unfortunately that could happen.
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Old 06-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #1268
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Would you rather sign Wes Matthews because unfortunately that could happen.
This makes my stomach turn. Don't do it
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:04 PM   #1269
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What about Wes Matthews on a vet min contract? The only issue would be him understanding his role would vastly be different should he return. He is 32, so he may look for someone to throw a multi-year deal out first. But if he can come in as part of the bench and play a true 3&D, why not? First instance of him posting up or trying to create off the dribble, slide him down the bench. But a spot up shooter, defender, and his general attitude and intangibles make him a good fit.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:02 PM   #1270
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What about Wes Matthews on a vet min contract? The only issue would be him understanding his role would vastly be different should he return. He is 32, so he may look for someone to throw a multi-year deal out first. But if he can come in as part of the bench and play a true 3&D, why not? First instance of him posting up or trying to create off the dribble, slide him down the bench. But a spot up shooter, defender, and his general attitude and intangibles make him a good fit.
It would be tragic for us fans. He is what he is and I'd prefer someone else's relative unknown than what we know of him. It's not like he is a defensive specialist anymore and his 3's not that great either.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:18 PM   #1271
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Shams Charania:

Oklahoma City Thunder
The Thunder have had multiple conversations with various teams about using their No. 21 pick in a trade to reduce team salary and relieve financial pressure, league sources said.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:25 PM   #1272
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Shams Charania:

Oklahoma City Thunder
The Thunder have had multiple conversations with various teams about using their No. 21 pick in a trade to reduce team salary and relieve financial pressure, league sources said.
Barnes and 21 for cap space
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:29 PM   #1273
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Shams Charania:

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The Thunder have had multiple conversations with various teams about using their No. 21 pick in a trade to reduce team salary and relieve financial pressure, league sources said.
I bet. Tough situation. Steven Adams is good but not THAT good. Their roster/salary is almost as bad as Miami.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:35 PM   #1274
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What about Wes
Stopped reading there, assumed the rest of the sentence was "getting shot out of a canon straight into the sun" and immediately decided I'm 100% on board... Not sure what that has to do with Mavericks free agency though.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:40 PM   #1275
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I get it. I'll stand by it, lot of if's in my scenario though, admittedly.

Steven Adams would be much more heralded if he didn't do the dirty work for RWB's triple doubles. I think he'd get a boost in rebounds for sure, and a tick up in assist numbers with out the usage suckage of RWB/PG. Still a lot of projection for the contract, but I've always liked the dude.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:33 PM   #1276
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I get it. I'll stand by it, lot of if's in my scenario though, admittedly.

Steven Adams would be much more heralded if he didn't do the dirty work for RWB's triple doubles. I think he'd get a boost in rebounds for sure, and a tick up in assist numbers with out the usage suckage of RWB/PG. Still a lot of projection for the contract, but I've always liked the dude.
Yea I love him but his contract is always going to be
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:59 PM   #1277
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@ESefko Dwight Powell, at the opening of a new tech center Tuesday, on his future: “There’s no place I’d rather be than Dallas. I’ve done everything to show I love it here. This team gave me my shot…treated me extremely well, as an athlete and man. So, yeah, I love the Dallas Mavericks"
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:08 PM   #1278
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Stopped reading there, assumed the rest of the sentence was "getting shot out of a canon straight into the sun" and immediately decided I'm 100% on board... Not sure what that has to do with Mavericks free agency though.
Let’s sign Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner too. Loved the “older guy who can’t shoot or really play effective defense anymore” 2 guard spot we had for like 10 years
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:01 PM   #1279
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Let’s sign Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner too. Loved the “older guy who can’t shoot or really play effective defense anymore” 2 guard spot we had for like 10 years
Can't shoot? Find me another end of rotation type who can hit 38% and yes, he can still defend. But go ahead and not read the entire post. Derp.
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:27 AM   #1280
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If Kyrie is really going to the Nets we should be blowing up Deangelo Russell the first day of free agency.
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