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Old 07-10-2019, 03:56 PM   #4001
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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart View Post
They're stupid AND they go off on the fans!

Thank god we have Luka and KP to watch otherwise I'd be out.
Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:20 PM   #4002
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Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!
I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

We were supposed to sign a big name FA (according to Cuban), or even just a couple of mid-tier guys (according to Donnie), but all we got were career bench players... We had $30m in cap space and only used half of it -- I've never heard of a team that planned on going over the cap leaving that much space on the table.

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:27 PM   #4003
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@SIChrisMannix about 15 minutes ago
Celtics have waived Guerschon Yabusele, per team. Yabusele -- the 16th pick in the 2016 draft -- could never crack the rotation. Played in just 74 games over two seasons. Celtics open up a roster spot.

The "Dancing Bear" is available!! He would be a perfect complement to Bobi.
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:32 PM   #4004
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Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!
You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL

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Old 07-10-2019, 04:36 PM   #4005
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This happened during today's Summer League game -- Plan Powder in full effect... Get your hopes up!


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Old 07-10-2019, 04:42 PM   #4006
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@SIChrisMannix about 15 minutes ago
Celtics have waived Guerschon Yabusele, per team. Yabusele -- the 16th pick in the 2016 draft -- could never crack the rotation. Played in just 74 games over two seasons. Celtics open up a roster spot.

The "Dancing Bear" is available!! He would be a perfect complement to Bobi.
Funnily enough, the 16th pick of the 2016 draft used by Boston to draft Yabusele was ours (Rondo + Powell trade). So with Yabusele out, the only player out of that trade that is still with the team is Dwight Powell. Suck it Boston!
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:46 PM   #4007
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You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL
Two years straight they flirted with tanking and won too many games. They had a top 5 protected pick and traded their starters and decided to win down the stretch. Moronic.
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #4008
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I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

We were supposed to sign a big name FA (according to Cuban), or even just a couple of mid-tier guys (according to Donnie), but all we got were career bench players... We had $30m in cap space and only used half of it -- I've never heard of a team that planned on going over the cap leaving that much space on the table.

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.
Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #4009
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I'd be wary of putting much stock in that new metric because according to it PG13 is just barely a positive on defense and guys like Austin Rivers, Dragic, Hood, Rose, Lillard, McCollum, Burke, DSJ, Hayward, and Seth are all better than him. Just to name a few of the "wtf" ones.
Edit- It also ranks Kawhi Leonard well below Seth and several of the ones I listed above.
Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't say that metric is in any way useful as a measure for ranking NBA defenders 1-whatever. It doesn't account for blocks, steals or rebounding, and I think it will inherently undervalue guys who spend a lot of time guarding the opposing teams best players, and vice versa (hence why PG13 and Kawhi are lower than expected). There may well be too much noise for it to really be useful, but it does indicate that Seth Curry might be a little better at defense than we thought (or maybe just that he was lucky last season).

As with baseball, I suspect that finding a single stat that tells us exactly how good a defender is will be difficult or impossible for the game of basketball. We have to do our best to look at all the numbers available and try to put them in the right context.

I'm very curious what you guys think the best advanced stats are for NBA defense. I haven't found one yet that doesn't have some major wtf inconsistencies with convention and the eye test.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:13 PM   #4010
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Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.
You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.

And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:19 PM   #4011
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You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.

And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.

You guys all sound stupid right now. The front office has made some mistakes and hit some homeruns. This offseason was bad, but honestly none of us can know for certain whether it could have been better.

I think everyone agrees Mark Cuban lashing out at fans is bad. Give yourself +10 points for winning an argument. Are you happy now?
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:20 PM   #4012
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Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.
If they truly only had one target this offseason then they are true idiots. Instead of upgrading personnel they spent it on players they already had.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:26 PM   #4013
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You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.
Well no, I haven't been living under a rock. I posted to this very subject already several posts above this one. I agree with you completely. Or almost anyway.

Quote:
And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.
I don't have much of a problem with this either.

But here's my point. it's not exactly what's being said, it's the fact that some people here seem way over the top with the criticism. When we go to "stupid" and "idiots," then it's just silly nonsense.

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Old 07-10-2019, 05:35 PM   #4014
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You guys all sound stupid right now. The front office has made some mistakes and hit some homeruns. This offseason was bad, but honestly none of us can know for certain whether it could have been better.

I think everyone agrees Mark Cuban lashing out at fans is bad. Give yourself +10 points for winning an argument. Are you happy now?
LMAO if any of us were happy, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I'm not trying to win an argument. I seriously wondered if there was a reading comprehension issue on the discussion because people seem to keep going back to "just a bad offseason" schtick like that is my main issue.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:37 PM   #4015
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I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

....

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.
Something must be getting lost before I click "send" because people only seeing this as black and white is exactly the thing I'm complaining about. I'm not seeing people say "I disagree with moves A, B, and C". I'm seeing people say "The FO did A, B, and C so they are stupid and I'm going to quit watching!!!"

My point is to take a more holistic approach and realize that there are shades of grey. They can make (or not make) a move you disagree with, but not be overall "stupid" or "idiots". I have no problem with being disappointed with specific decisions, but they thing that upsets me is writing them off entirely because you don't agree with how they spent part of one offseason.

Even within one offseason I don't understand how you can see it as an "abject failure". They locked up KP. They built continuity within the team. They added some decent role players. I would love if they had spent their cap space differently and I don't fully understand the reasons why they didn't, but I don't think that makes it an "abject failure". That, to me, seems like the "black and white" view.

Edit: I 100% agree that we shouldn't only compliment the strengths OR rail against the missteps. But all I'm seeing from some posters is complaints, with no acknowledgment of the achievements, so I guess I'm specifically trying to balance that out. Even better, instead of being upset about things we don't agree with, in an ideal world I'd love to see "Hmmm, this decision doesn't make sense to me, I wonder why they are moving in that direction" rather than "ZOMG! What IDIOTS!! They didn't do what I want or expect them to do so they are all sooooo dumb!"
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:40 PM   #4016
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You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL
Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:56 PM   #4017
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I am ownership at work...
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:00 PM   #4018
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And for what it's worth, and however it fits into this, I don't think Cuban should be trashing fans.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:00 PM   #4019
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I am not working at work... Who wins?
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:10 PM   #4020
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Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.
The Mavs' FO is never in the middle. THAT's the problem. The Mavs crowning achievement, that wasn't even this offseason, was them stealing KP from the Knicks (Yes, totally awesome move. I love the risk/reward). There are 30 NBA franchises. Remove the Mavs and Knicks, and you are left with 28 teams. Out of the remaining 28, how many are run as pitifully or worse than the Knicks and subject to blowing it on their franchise player? I'm not sure if there is one left out there right now. Even the Suns are not that idiotic, so far. Take away the winning lottery ticket that is the KP fleecing of the Knicks and what do they have to brag about over the last 5 years? Luka? Yeah, I'll give you partial credit on that one considering they had to likely cough up an extra 1st to get him due to moronically winning meaningless games down the stretch.

How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a top 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Enough with the examples. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans recently after previously CYA'ing it with lies that weren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they had been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan powder? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.

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Old 07-10-2019, 06:14 PM   #4021
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Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey View Post
Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.
I think lost in all of this is that whether our front office is:

1) full of idiots who've gotten super lucky to acquire generational talent that carried us to almost two straight decades of winning basketball and a championship

or

2) relatively smart guys who have done their job, on average, better than most other NBA front offices,

we still got to spend the last two decades watching Dirk Nowitzki and now get to spend at least a few seasons watching Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis play together under one of the top 5 head coaches in the league, either way. There was no gap there. Dirk retired and now we have Luka and Kristaps. That's going to be fun! We're incredibly lucky as basketball fans. Almost every other franchise in the league wishes they could have it so good.

Anyway, I think that's where some of us feel like some of you guys are just being exhausting in your negativity right now. Trust me, we ALL get it: this offseason was not a success. How many more weeks will you guys need to spend bitching about it before you're satisfied?
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:19 PM   #4022
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The Mavs FO is never in the middle. THAT's the problem. The Mavs crowning achievement, that wasn't even this offseason, was them stealing KP from the Knicks (Yes, totally awesome move. I love the risk/reward). There are 30 NBA franchises. Remove the Mavs and Knicks, and you are left with 28 teams. Out of the remaining 28, how many are run as pitifully or worse than the Knicks and subject to blowing it on their franchise player? I'm not sure if there is one left out there right now. Even the Suns are not that idiotic, so far. Take away the winning lottery ticket that is the KP fleecing of the Knicks and what do they have to brag about over the last 5 years? Luka? Yeah, I'll give you partial credit on that one considering they had to likely cough up an extra 1st to get him due to moronically winning meaningless games down the stretch.

How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a to 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans while previously CYA'ing it with lies that aren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they have been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan power? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.
They've kept you interested and entertained while operating at apparently 20% of their potential, so I'd say they've been pretty darn effective. And if they haven't, well then I have no idea why you are wasting your time discussing something that has been so horrid to you for so many years. That's a weird thing to do.

I once dated a girl for 7 years. We both knew not too long into it that there were too many problems and that it wasn't enjoyable, but we kept hanging on for some reason. Eventually we realized that moving on was for the best. Maybe it's time you for you and the Mavs to break up and for you to move on and find an organization that you actually enjoy rooting for and maybe eventually you can find some joy in basketball again. If we look past the Knicks, there are 28 other teams....
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:30 PM   #4023
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They've kept you interested and entertained while operating at apparently 20% of their potential, so I'd say they've been pretty darn effective. And if they haven't, well then I have no idea why you are wasting your time discussing something that has been so horrid to you for so many years. That's a weird thing to do.

I once dated a girl for 7 years. We both knew not to long into it that there were too many problems and that it wasn't enjoyable, but we kept hanging on for some reason. Eventually we realized that moving on was for the best. Maybe it's time you for you and the Mavs to break up and for you to move on and find an organization that you actually enjoy rooting for and maybe eventually you can find some joy in basketball again. If we look past the Knicks, there are 28 other teams....
One word.... DIRK.

That's the only reason I watched post 2012 up until drafting Luka, and I've said that before a few times, possibly even in this same thread.

Now we have Luka, and he is going to be a blast to watch, so I'll be tuning in. Will he be another Dirk? Probably not, but it's going to be fun finding out. I want him to be the best Luka he can be and hopefully all of his playing time will be spent in Dallas.

I just hate to see wasted opportunities. For the last 20 or so years, the Mavs have been leading the NBA in identifying top European talent - Dirk, Luka, KP, and yes, Giannis, but the days of Dallas having an overwhelming European scouting advantage over the other franchises is just about gone, so the MBT needs to really step up and make better use of ALL aspects of talent acquisition available - that includes the draft and free agency. They've got to be better at something more than just trades. I don't think I ask for too much. I look at middle of the road as a big improvement for them at this point. Oh yeah, quit lying to the fans (customers) and treating them like dumbarses who haven't a clue. Mr. Shark Tank should know that. It's business 101.

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Old 07-10-2019, 06:32 PM   #4024
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My point is to take a more holistic approach and realize that there are shades of grey. They can make (or not make) a move you disagree with, but not be overall "stupid" or "idiots". I have no problem with being disappointed with specific decisions, but they thing that upsets me is writing them off entirely because you don't agree with how they spent part of one offseason.
Are you sure you want to go with that? One off season? This FO has rolled out plan powder for 6 or 7 years. This isn't about one off season. This is about the previous 7 years and the bleak outlook at improving the roster for the next 2 or so years. The 2 good moves they made killed our draft assets for trades so yeah good job but the job's not done. They really needed more out of this class of free agents. Next year's class sucks. Truly it's a shit poor free agent class. The potential downside is we cannot improve this roster in a significant way for 2 more years and then it's going to rely on us doing well in free agency when we haven't done well for the better part of a decade. And in the meantime we will get to read articles from Fish and his group of how financially it will be possible to get Giannis and somehow trade Powell and his super high PER with some magic beans and get Myles Turner to join Giannis on the Mavs in 2021. And then when free agency ends we will have signed 2yr older Danny Green and Biyombo.

So if fans are being overly critical and you are making the assumption it's based on "one off season" of things they didn't agree with. I think you need to rethink that.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:41 PM   #4025
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Are you sure you want to go with that? One off season? This FO has rolled out plan powder for 6 or 7 years. This isn't about one off season. This is about the previous 7 years and the bleak outlook at improving the roster for the next 2 or so years. The 2 good moves they made killed our draft assets for trades so yeah good job but the job's not done. They really needed more out of this class of free agents. Next year's class sucks. Truly it's a shit poor free agent class. The potential downside is we cannot improve this roster in a significant way for 2 more years and then it's going to rely on us doing well in free agency when we haven't done well for the better part of a decade. And in the meantime we will get to read articles from Fish and his group of how financially it will be possible to get Giannis and somehow trade Powell and his super high PER with some magic beans and get Myles Turner to join Giannis on the Mavs in 2021. And then when free agency ends we will have signed 2yr older Danny Green and Biyombo.

So if fans are being overly critical and you are making the assumption it's based on "one off season" of things they didn't agree with. I think you need to rethink that.
Nah, I don't need to rethink anything. We may have differing opinions but I don't need you to tell me how to think. And as far as Fish goes, he's the only part of all of this that I'm willing to say is 100% an idiotic tool, so I don't put much thought into anything he says.

"Winning" in free agency every year is not easy. I'd go so far as to say it's incredibly hard. I think the Mavs have lost out on some opportunities, but I don't think it's because they are always idiots. I think think they've rolled some dice, made some good decisions, made some bad decisions, but overall I've had a blast watching and rooting for them. Even when they strike out on plan A, (or B or C or D) I've usually been excited about what they are able to pull out of their collective hats in the end.

Over a year ago some fans were talking about how stupid the Mavs are, and then they got Luka. Then they were talking about how stupid they are and then they got KP. I have no idea what they will do next, and yeah I agree that their options are limited, but that's what makes it fun to follow and speculate about.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:43 PM   #4026
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Interesting breakdown of Mav's free agency. Mavs doing "Toronto Raptors type of acquisitions." "Where is the big inefficiency right now in the NBA? It's non-superstars getting superstar money" and given the cap logic the next level of players down will automatically be underpaid - which is where the value and efficiency is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJUHC-XMLg&t=410s at 6:35

Some will see this as just a post-fact justification of an unsuccessful free-agency. But I tend to agree. If you are not getting the superstar that you value within your system, or he simply doesn't want to live in Dallas, why overpay for another and get stuck with an overpaid player on an immovable contract? That is not a winning formula. Either pay the proper value. Or underpay. Never overpay. Seems like a sound logic to me. Oh, and if an opportunity doesn't present itself this free-agency or trade window, keep the cap room and wait for another. You have no aging superstars and are not in the rush.

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Old 07-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #4027
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This happened during today's Summer League game -- Plan Powder in full effect... Get your hopes up!
Time to rename it to "Plan Go recruiting ,Luka and KP"

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Possible NBA free agents available in 2021:

Kawhi Leonard
LeBron James
Paul George
Bradley Beal
Blake Griffin
Rudy Gobert
Jrue Holiday
CJ McCollum
Otto Porter
Mike Conley
LaMarcus Aldridge
DeMar DeRozan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
Gordon Hayward

Also possible Giannis gets there
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:57 PM   #4028
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:01 PM   #4029
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How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a top 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Enough with the examples. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans recently after previously CYA'ing it with lies that weren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they had been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan powder? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.
I cant think of a more unlucky FO:

2012:
Deron signs with Brooklyn and tells it was a 51:49 decision against us

2013:
Fegan tries to push Dwight towards Dallas because it was by far the best fit but he signs with Houston (and it fires completly back for him). After Dwight is gone we have an agreement with Iggy. Iggy prefers GS but they are over the cap. Like two hours before Iggys deadline to GS they are able to shred almost 30m in contracts because the Jazz are blowing it up. Two years later Iggy is Finals MVP

2014:
The FO actually realize that Dirk is no recruiter and they get Parsons. Healthy a nice fit but i think his recruiting game was as important. But he cant stay healthy at all

2015:
DeAndre pulls off the biggest ass move and ruins the entire free agency period because he backs out when every freaking other FA signed somewhere else.

2016:
Gigantic cap spike, Dirk allready dirt old, the Mavs try their best and get Barnes and hopes he improves. Was under this circumstances not a bad move. Overpaid yes, but not bad.

So...if you recap it you see how much freaking bad luck the Mavs had.

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Old 07-10-2019, 07:05 PM   #4030
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@sefant77 Honestly don't want any of them on the Mavs. They've had their opportunities to join the organization, but they're not here yet. I want guys who want to be here at this point. So screw them all... unless Gobert says he wants to play here. I'll make an exception for him.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:07 PM   #4031
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I take Jrue or Beal all day long. Even Porter is a more than solid 2nd tier solution

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Old 07-10-2019, 07:23 PM   #4032
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Nah, I don't need to rethink anything. We may have differing opinions but I don't need you to tell me how to think. And as far as Fish goes, he's the only part of all of this that I'm willing to say is 100% an idiotic tool, so I don't put much thought into anything he says.

"Winning" in free agency every year is not easy. I'd go so far as to say it's incredibly hard. I think the Mavs have lost out on some opportunities, but I don't think it's because they are always idiots. I think think they've rolled some dice, made some good decisions, made some bad decisions, but overall I've had a blast watching and rooting for them. Even when they strike out on plan A, (or B or C or D) I've usually been excited about what they are able to pull out of their collective hats in the end.

Over a year ago some fans were talking about how stupid the Mavs are, and then they got Luka. Then they were talking about how stupid they are and then they got KP. I have no idea what they will do next, and yeah I agree that their options are limited, but that's what makes it fun to follow and speculate about.
Oh good grief. I am not trying to tell you how to think.

Well whatever. I highlighted the word "one" for a reason. If a post about how people are upset over more than one year is telling you how to think then I really don't know how to respond to you.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:26 PM   #4033
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And for what it's worth, and however it fits into this, I don't think Cuban should be trashing fans.
I really took those comments personally especially since I was a season ticket holder for 13 straight seasons. And I was considering getting a least a 10 game package if they had nailed free agency.

Hell, I have an authentic DSJ jersey sitting in my closet.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:29 PM   #4034
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Interesting breakdown of Mav's free agency. Mavs doing "Toronto Raptors type of acquisitions." "Where is the big inefficiency right now in the NBA? It's non-superstars getting superstar money" and given the cap logic the next level of players down will automatically be underpaid - which is where the value and efficiency is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJUHC-XMLg&t=410s at 6:35

Some will see this as just a post-fact justification of an unsuccessful free-agency. But I tend to agree. If you are not getting the superstar that you value within your system, or he simply doesn't want to live in Dallas, why overpay for another and get stuck with an overpaid player on an immovable contract? That is not a winning formula. Either pay the proper value. Or underpay. Never overpay. Seems like a sound logic to me. Oh, and if an opportunity doesn't present itself this free-agency or trade window, keep the cap room and wait for another. You have no aging superstars and are not in the rush.
That's the one thing the Mavs FO probably did right that flew under the radar this season. They believed that several of their current players were good fits here and made an effort to re-sign them to longer contracts. Barea, DFS, Powell, and Maxi - all re-signed. They went after Curry knowing what kind of person and player he is, so I count that as well.

There will be consistency, and the FO values what Don Nelson termed "corporate knowledge". We can bag on Cuban all day long, but he's probably right in giving consistency almost as high a valuation as talent. The 2011 championship team had much the same coherence. They played together for a few years and were able to beat teams with more individual talent.

So while Cuban may have misguided the fans on their ability to "making noise" in free agency, he at least made sure that consistency was factored it. We haven't over paid anyone, and we still have ammunition.

Ok, that's all I got in the rosy picture department

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Old 07-10-2019, 07:34 PM   #4035
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I take Jrue or Beal all day long. Even Porter is a more than solid 2nd tier solution
Quit reading my mind. LOL
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:51 PM   #4036
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The FA grading is still going strong... This is going to be a long season
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:51 PM   #4037
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I think you need to rethink that.
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I am not trying to tell you how to think.

Hey! My first time ever using the Multi-quote feature! Did I do it right?
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:53 PM   #4038
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The FA grading is still going strong... This is going to be a long season
Nah, now we've moved onto FA grading grading.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:54 PM   #4039
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The FA grading is still going strong... This is going to be a long season
I feel like this offseason is going to be similar to the Jason Kidd trade (when we got him back) in that some on this forum are going to bitch about it until we either win a championship or the eventual heat death of the universe.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:22 PM   #4040
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I am not working at work... Who wins?
I must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Underdog again.
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